My recollection on the disclaimer on helmets is that they are not suitable for
use while operating a motor vehicle. I don't ever recall any helmet
manufacturer suggesting what types of objects I should and should not have
collisions with while using their product.

I am suggesting (without research to cite) that more cycling accidents in the
Netherlands are bike-on-bike, or bike alone, where in North America they tend to
be car-on-bike. I'd also note, that while the Dutch are fit, and apt to ride
fast, there is also much bike congestion in urban areas - which is apt to
increase the number of accidents, yet lowering the speeds at which they occur,
and their severity.

I'd also note that those who ride bikes more, will certainly ride them better.
No doubt a highly skilled cyclist without a helmet is a safer cyclist than a
poorly skilled cyclist with one - however, a highly skilled cyclist with a
helmet should then be expected to be safer than either.

I think it would be very hard to accurately find a statistic that objectively
removes variables and gives a clear picture here, but very easy to find flawed
studies supporting whichever side of the argument you already decided you were
on.

I also would note, with great emphasis - the nature of cycling and the nature of
in-line skating, as well as the accompanying injuries and injury patterns are
TOTALLY different. I'm personally opposed to any compulsory helmet laws, yet
strongly support and encourage helmet use for skating and cycling....

...That said, there seem to be cultures within each sport that seem safe and
happy without helmets. In skating, it's hard to imagine hormone fueled 13 yr
old boys trying to meet 13 yr girls at the local roller rink on Friday night
decked out in full protective gear and helmets. In cycling, I can't see a
pleasant Dutch granny wearing a helmet to pedal off to the local market on her
three-speed...

There's a sort of line, I guess, where helmets DO seem silly - but no one dares
try to say where that line is....

Patrick Seltsam



________________________________

From: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Mike van Erp
Sent: Fri 9/1/2006 12:00 PM
To: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [inline-instruction] "Green" helmets?



Patrick, if I recall correctly, there isn't a single helmet manufacturer who
designs or certifies their bicycle helmets as suitable for protection
against impacts with motor vehicles. I believe nearly every helmet comes
with a specific disclaimer on this subject.

Secondly, there are *numerous* studies that show cycle lanes are not as safe
as you might think, quite often more dangerous than actually cycling on the
road. You might feel safer, but you won't be in reality. Cycle lanes turn
out not to be a good solution to cycling safety, again surprising and
against what might seem to be common sense, but the reasons are obvious once
you do a little research.

Lastly, you'd be very surprised at the cycling speed of many people in the
Netherlands. They are active and cycle a lot, so are fit and fast. As a
certain famous person said, "It's not about the bike".

Best regards,
Mike.

-----Original Message-----
From: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Patrick Seltsam
Sent: 01 September 2006 17:15
To: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [inline-instruction] "Green" helmets?

While I certainly can't quantify this, my recollection from visits to the
Netherlands is that a great amount of the cycling there is low speed,
utility cycling, on upright three-speed bikes -- done primarily on bike
lanes separated from motor vehicle traffic by a curb or a median. It is a
very different cycling climate than in North America.

Yes, I'd feel safer cycling without a helmet on a car-free pathway than I
would with a helmet on a busy street.

I'd also suggest that those in the Netherlands who participate in more risky
recreational cycling (racing/training, off-road, etc...) are more apt to
voluntarliy wear helmets while doing those activities.

Patrick Seltsam

________________________________

From: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Mike van Erp
Sent: Fri 9/1/2006 2:00 AM
To: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [inline-instruction] "Green" helmets?

Hi Helen,

I don't think that cycling can be considered dangerous, even in the USA.
Although more risky than in the UK and the Netherlands, that risk is still
very very small.

I also don't believe helmets are at all essential for cycling. They are
perhaps one of the least effective safety measures that can be taken. Much
much more effective is proper riding technique and road craft, using lights,
etc.

Best regards,
Mike.

-----Original Message-----
From: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of ASINAC@...
<mailto:ASINAC%40aol.com>
<mailto:ASINAC%40aol.com>
Sent: 30 August 2006 15:03
To: inline-instruction@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:inline-instruction%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [inline-instruction] "Green" helmets?

Hi Mike,
I knew you would get some interesting feed back from the USA about helmets.

One thing about the Internet is, something's that might work in one country,
may not work in another.
Hence, helmets are a must in the USA for 3 reasons, we are an "extreme"
culture, automobiles rule the roads, and last the land of suing.

In all the reports I have read in the USA it has been cyclists that have the
most fatalities, but then there are more cyclists than skaters.

I don't know anywhere in the USA were they have 1,500 wild horses roaming
and sharing the roads with bikers like they do in the New Forest, Hants, UK,
road patience :)

Remember, when one is right, that is all they get to be............ Demi
Moore.
Helen,
Everett, WA. USA
Harrow, Middx. UK

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