I apologize for this clutter, but one of the group was looking for a
literary agent, and I passed along a suggestion.  I've forgotten who it was,
and have erased the prompts.

Anyway, to the budding author, I suggested Jordan Jacobs, but gave an old
company affiliation.  Jordan is with Cassels, Brock and Blackwell in
Toronto.  Direct line: 416-869-5456.  Email: jjacobs@....

I just received his Christmas card, so wanted to pass along proper
information.

Kevin Shea

Kevin,

Thank you for the information! I am the "budding author" and that is a big help.

Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Shea <kshea@...>
To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
Date: January 1, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: [hockhist] LITERARY AGENTS


I apologize for this clutter, but one of the group was looking for a
literary agent, and I passed along a suggestion.  I've forgotten who it was,
and have erased the prompts.

Anyway, to the budding author, I suggested Jordan Jacobs, but gave an old
company affiliation.  Jordan is with Cassels, Brock and Blackwell in
Toronto.  Direct line: 416-869-5456.  Email: jjacobs@....

I just received his Christmas card, so wanted to pass along proper
information.

Kevin Shea



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Happy New Year from Thunder Bay!!!!!!!!

We have very little snow, but it's cold as the ham bone in my freezer. Hope
everyone's New Year's holidays was wonderful and you received everything you
wanted from Christmas.
Let's keep the discussions going on a positive note in 2002. This is a GREAT
site! Let's keep it going.

One resolution I hope everyone can follow this year is to change the subject
line if you're talking about something that has no relationship to the
original RE:

Cheers, everyone!

He tried out for a team in the Russian Elite League in southern Sibria. The
culture shock was to much for him, so he returned to his home in St. Louis and
worked out with the Missouri River Otters of the UHL. He got a call from Finland
were he is now playing for Ilves in the city of Tampere.
Jim Weiler
www.kometslegends.com
   nieforth <nieforth@...> wrote: Does anyone know if Racine is playing
this season?  He was in Finland
for 2000-01.

Thanks.

Joseph


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---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject: [hockhist] Re: Fw: hey guys, you all had better read this... VIRUS
ALERT!!!!!!-----Dean


> List moms,
>
> These things have seem to come up recently, and from people who have
> never posted on this list.  Are these new people who have just signed
> up, or are they lurkers?

They are just Lurkers. We have about 430 something members on this list.
I'll l;eave this one to a statistics person, but I believe 5% of the list
members do 95% of the posting.

As for virus alerts, I would apprciate it if people wouldn't post them. I
think this latest one could cause people some problemsif they are using
Windows. (Linux users probably don't worry about viruses.)

Frank

I see Scotty Bowman used Fedorov full time (except on the penalty kill) as a
defenseman the other night which got me to thinking about other such
conversions.

I didn't list my top ten Russians on a recent thread but Sergei is on my list. I
think he is the best defensive forward the NHL has seen since Gainey, and I
don't have any doubt he would make a very fine defenseman. Bowman also
experimented with Gainey on the blueline.

I don't think we see defense to forward or forward to defense shifts work out
very well, very often. Off the top of my head I can think of Mark Howe as a
forward shifted to defense, and Red Kelly going the other way. I guess there
have been quite a few role player enforcer type shifts from defense to forward,
but among players who are pretty good? It doesn't seem to happen very often.

Detroit has lots of forwards and looks thin on defense to me. Moving Fedorov
isn't a bad option at all.

Tom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Happened a lot in early days.  Dit Clapper and Babe Siebert were all-
stars as forwards and then, later, defense.

In more modern times, Rick Chartraw was used both at LW and D.  Gary
Leeman went from D to LW.  Scored 50 goals, got sent to  Calgary and
later Montreal, where he was shifted back to D.

Wendel Clark was drafted as a D, but never played there in the NHL.
Phil Housley spent some of his years in Buffalo going back and forth
between D and C.  And Phil Bourque went back and forth between LW and
D in Pittsburgh.

Does Marty McSorley count?  He was a goon at RW and a goon at D.  And
if I'm not mistaken, didn't Derek Morris play some C in Calgary his
rookie season?

Morey

> I don't think we see defense to forward or forward to defense
shifts work out very well, very often. Off the top of my head I can
think of Mark Howe as a forward shifted to defense, and Red Kelly
going the other way. I guess there have been quite a few role player
enforcer type shifts from defense to forward, but among players who
are pretty good? It doesn't seem to happen very often.

>
> From: benjamin@...
> Date: 2002/01/01 Tue PM 06:41:38 EST
> To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [hockhist] Fedorov Experiment
>
>
> I don't think we see defense to forward or forward to
defense shifts work out very well, very often.

There is an example that springs to mind, but I doubt
there's a solid basis for comparison. The Red Wings
converted Mathieu Dandenault (who topped 100 points in the
QMJHL one year) to defence, but the change came early in his
ca

Lloyd Davis Publishing Services
201-488 Danforth Avenue
Toronto, ON M4K 1P6
416-465-6999 (tel.) /// 416-462-0326 (fax)
loydavis@...

Tex wrote:

> They are just Lurkers. We have about 430 something members on this
list.
> I'll l;eave this one to a statistics person, but I believe 5% of
the list
> members do 95% of the posting.

That's probably closer to truth than not.  My question is why are the
lurkers just lurking?  Is it to learn?  Do they wish to get
involved?

I think I can name about 30 people on the list who never/rarely post
and are in specialized areas that there is nowhere else to turn.  Add
that to the 50 or so regular posters, and what are the other 300+ up
to?

If anyone wants to get involved in a project, drop me an e-mail.  On
this list we have people working on projects on everything from the
WHA to the ECHL to the CHL (all the versions dating to 1925) to
Europe.  I'm sure there are many people on this list who would like a
little help opn a project.

Morey

Happy New Year!

I'm trying to find a player roster with jersey numbers for the entire 68-69
St. Louis team. Can anyone out there help? If so, please e-mail me at
jaymiller@... or fax it to me at 705-475-1069. Thanks in advance!

> I don't think we see defense to forward or forward
> to defense shifts work out very well, very often.

> It doesn't
> seem to happen very often.

Doug Mohns was a good solid B-player that switched
around. Didn't he actually switch twice, moving from
defense to forward and then later back to defense
after he left Chicago?

I'm probably wrong on this, as he was before my time.

D!



=====
David Stewart-Candy

International Ice Hockey Almanac
Canadian Lacrosse Almanac

East Vancouver, British Columbia

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca

Visit my site at www.epenaltybox.com.

Morey

--- In hockhist@y..., Net Collectibles <netcollectibles@n...> wrote:
> Happy New Year!
>
> I'm trying to find a player roster with jersey numbers for the
entire 68-69
> St. Louis team. Can anyone out there help? If so, please e-mail me
at
> jaymiller@s... or fax it to me at 705-475-1069. Thanks in advance!

That's where I went first but it didn't come up for me. I'll try again.
Thanks, Jay.

At 05:15 PM 01/01/02, you wrote:
>Visit my site at www.epenaltybox.com.
>
>Morey
>
>--- In hockhist@y..., Net Collectibles <netcollectibles@n...> wrote:
> > Happy New Year!
> >
> > I'm trying to find a player roster with jersey numbers for the
>entire 68-69
> > St. Louis team. Can anyone out there help? If so, please e-mail me
>at
> > jaymiller@s... or fax it to me at 705-475-1069. Thanks in advance!
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
>hockhist-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Wasn't Gary Leeman a d-man in junior before he cracked the Leafs lineup?

---

For every problem, there is an answer that is simple, straightforward...
and wrong. H.L. Mencken


-----Original Message-----
From: benjamin@... [mailto:benjamin@...]
Sent: January 1, 2002 3:42 PM
To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hockhist] Fedorov Experiment

I see Scotty Bowman used Fedorov full time (except on the penalty kill)
as a defenseman the other night which got me to thinking about other
such conversions.

I didn't list my top ten Russians on a recent thread but Sergei is on my
list. I think he is the best defensive forward the NHL has seen since
Gainey, and I don't have any doubt he would make a very fine defenseman.
Bowman also experimented with Gainey on the blueline.

I don't think we see defense to forward or forward to defense shifts
work out very well, very often. Off the top of my head I can think of
Mark Howe as a forward shifted to defense, and Red Kelly going the other
way. I guess there have been quite a few role player enforcer type
shifts from defense to forward, but among players who are pretty good?
It doesn't seem to happen very often.

Detroit has lots of forwards and looks thin on defense to me. Moving
Fedorov isn't a bad option at all.

Tom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Still isn't coming up for me.



At 05:15 PM 01/01/02, you wrote:
>Visit my site at www.epenaltybox.com.
>
>Morey
>
>--- In hockhist@y..., Net Collectibles <netcollectibles@n...> wrote:
> > Happy New Year!
> >
> > I'm trying to find a player roster with jersey numbers for the
>entire 68-69
> > St. Louis team. Can anyone out there help? If so, please e-mail me
>at
> > jaymiller@s... or fax it to me at 705-475-1069. Thanks in advance!
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
>hockhist-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

It hasn't been coming up for me either, that's for the last several days.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Net Collectibles" <netcollectibles@...>
To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re: 68-69 Blues


> Still isn't coming up for me.
>
>
>
> At 05:15 PM 01/01/02, you wrote:
> >Visit my site at www.epenaltybox.com.
> >
> >Morey
> >
> >--- In hockhist@y..., Net Collectibles <netcollectibles@n...> wrote:
> > > Happy New Year!
> > >
> > > I'm trying to find a player roster with jersey numbers for the
> >entire 68-69
> > > St. Louis team. Can anyone out there help? If so, please e-mail me
> >at
> > > jaymiller@s... or fax it to me at 705-475-1069. Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
> >hockhist-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
hockhist-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

>
> From: David Stewart-Candy <icehockeyalmanac@...>
> Date: 2002/01/01 Tue PM 08:04:44 EST
> To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [hockhist] Fedorov Experiment

> Doug Mohns was a good solid B-player that switched
> around. Didn't he actually switch twice, moving from
> defense to forward and then later back to defense
> after he left Chicago?
>
> I'm probably wrong on this, as he was before my time.
>

Nope, you've got it right. Believe it or don't, there's an official Doug Mohns
Web site (http://www.dougmohns.com). According to his bio, he came to Boston as
a left winger. In his fourth NHL season, the Bruins paired him with Fern Flaman
as a defenceman. He'd never played the position before.

In Chicago, he was placed at left wing on Stan Mikita's line (Kenny Wharram at
right wing). Minnesota moved him back to the blueline.

Whether he started wearing a helmet to cover up his rug, or to hold it in place,
is not discussed. <G>


Lloyd Davis Publishing Services
201-488 Danforth Avenue
Toronto, ON M4K 1P6
416-465-6999 (tel.) /// 416-462-0326 (fax)
loydavis@...

Mark Howe is the best example I can recall of a player switching from
forward to defense.

Didn't Carol Vadnais play LW on occasion?

Also, Dale Tallon and Randy Manery played both up and back.

--Dave Soutter

Happy New Year Everyone.

Would anyone on the list happen to know where I can
find year end scoring stats for the Toronto Marlies
and St.Mikes Majors for any years between '47-48 to
'66-67.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Gord

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

I think the most successful of all time to play both
def & forward was Red Kelly who was an all star def
with Det R/W and then an all star centre with Tor.


--- DAVE SOUTTER <dsoutter@...> wrote:
> Mark Howe is the best example I can recall of a
> player switching from
> forward to defense.
>
> Didn't Carol Vadnais play LW on occasion?
>
> Also, Dale Tallon and Randy Manery played both up
> and back.
>
> --Dave Soutter
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----
>> I'll l;eave this one to a statistics person, but I believe 5% of  the
list
>> members do 95% of the posting.

>That's probably closer to truth than not.  My question is why are the
>lurkers just lurking?  Is it to learn?  Do they wish to get
>involved?

>I think I can name about 30 people on the list who never/rarely post
>and are in specialized areas that there is nowhere else to turn.  Add
>that to the 50 or so regular posters, and what are the other 300+ up
>to?

>If anyone wants to get involved in a project, drop me an e-mail.  On
>this list we have people working on projects on everything from the
>WHA to the ECHL to the CHL (all the versions dating to 1925) to
>Europe.  I'm sure there are many people on this list who would like a
>little help opn a project.

>Morey

I have to agree with the help....
I am working on The State of Hockey (Minnesota History) and have not had all
the time I thought I would have to do it.
I could always use more help, I have asked Ralph Slate (hockeydb.com) for
use with some info from his site (Thanks again)
but that's only a fraction of the info that I know is out there.

I have been just working on getting stats for the leagues....but there is
also players that I will need to get going on at some time. I have tried to
get people from around the state involved but I have had very little luck.

If any one would like to help out please feel free to contact me off list at
info@...

Thanks and to all of the rest of you good luck with your projects!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Al
The State of Hockey
http://www.thestateofhockey.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Charlie Conacher played defense for the New York Americans at the end of his
career.

Kevin Shea

This list is a lot to keep up with. I for one have been busy playing hockey,
getting ready for college and now for probably my last set of high school
exams if I get decent grades next semester, which will be a sinch. I have
done very little of late, my website is being shut down because homestead is
not free anymore and is too much for my slow old computer to take. I am not
very good with html, so I am out of luck, not that I had the time to work on
it anyway.
I have learned a lot from talking and just reading a lot of information that
I had no clue about before. It is very informative and the level of discusion
is great. Anyone who lurks could take a lot from this list and put it to good
use.
This summer I am going to do some work trying to put together the first
season of Colonial/United League attendance, so far I only have some games
from Flint thanks to a list member, so I have my work cut out for me. After I
get settled at college, most likly Wayne State, I'll try to start my AA site
again and actualy do some work on it this time.
Darby

>
> From: "Kevin Shea" <kshea@...>
> Date: 2002/01/01 Tue PM 10:10:52 EST
> To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [hockhist] d-men to forwards & vice-versa
>
> Charlie Conacher played defense for the New York Americans at the end of his
> career.

And so did Reg Noble and I think there's a question to be raised here that may
or may not be answered before someone chimes in to point out that Tim Horton
played the wing on occasion or raises the spectre of Wade Belak. ;)

The question is this: it seems to have been, if not common, then certainly not
unheard of for an aging forward to be moved back to the blueline in the 1920s
and 30s.

Anyone know how come? On one level, defence would seem to be more demanding.
Then again, in those days before the centre red line, might it in fact have been
easier on an old pair of knees?

To be honest, I can't tell you what makes a defenceman good, bad, or
indifferent. The best comment about defencemen I've heard lately was, "If
they're doing their job, I don't notice 'em." (Wish to heck I could remember who
said it -- must have been either Harry Neale or Pierre McGuire.)

Clapper seems to be an exception rather than the rule in that he made the switch
after the red line came along. And we're sure as heck not about to see a Mark
Messier moved back, though that sure would be fun...

Lloyd Davis Publishing Services
201-488 Danforth Avenue
Toronto, ON M4K 1P6
416-465-6999 (tel.) /// 416-462-0326 (fax)
loydavis@...

You could always set it up at www.freeservers.com I think they are still
free, but you have to put up with their banners.
That way you can keep working on it and still have it out here for people to
see and maybe offer help with.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Al
http://www.wildden.com
hockeyguy@...
The Wild e-mail list
mnwild@yahoogroups.com
mnwild-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
ICQ 4154791
The State of Hockey
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Make money today!

www.FreeMoneyMakingMagazine.com/?a=9253


----- Original Message -----
From: <Darby31897@...>
To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [hockhist] Projects


This list is a lot to keep up with. I for one have been busy playing hockey,
getting ready for college and now for probably my last set of high school
exams if I get decent grades next semester, which will be a sinch. I have
done very little of late, my website is being shut down because homestead is
not free anymore and is too much for my slow old computer to take. I am not
very good with html, so I am out of luck, not that I had the time to work on
it anyway.
I have learned a lot from talking and just reading a lot of information that
I had no clue about before. It is very informative and the level of
discusion
is great. Anyone who lurks could take a lot from this list and put it to
good
use.
This summer I am going to do some work trying to put together the first
season of Colonial/United League attendance, so far I only have some games
from Flint thanks to a list member, so I have my work cut out for me. After
I
get settled at college, most likly Wayne State, I'll try to start my AA site
again and actualy do some work on it this time.
Darby


To unsubscribe from this mail list, send a blank message to
hockhist-unsubscribe@onelist.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

...and HOW could I forget "Trail On Ice" by this list's very own
Murray Greig?

Another team-oriented book I like is the "Saskatoon Blades History
Book" (1995). It was issued by the team (printed I believe by
Printwest in Saskatchewan) to commemorate 30 years of the Blades.  The
foreword says it was something of an update to their Reunion Book of
1987 (which I haven't seen).  The (sometimes-maligned) Bob Duff did
the original research for the 1987 book.  There are complete team
scoring statistics going back to the 1964-65 Blades.  Even has
transactions, such as

Nov 4/65 -- Purchase C Wayne Green from Estevan.  Returned to Estevan
the next day.
[And Green played for the Blades on the 4th!]

A little light on history, but that's okay.

Rob Swiniarski

Montrose BC
francz39@...

At 7:10 PM -0500 1.1.2002, Lloyd Davis wrote:
>>
>> From: benjamin@...
>> Date: 2002/01/01 Tue PM 06:41:38 EST
>> To: <hockhist@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [hockhist] Fedorov Experiment
>>
>>
>> I don't think we see defense to forward or forward to
>defense shifts work out very well, very often.
>
>There is an example that springs to mind, but I doubt
>there's a solid basis for comparison. The Red Wings
>converted Mathieu Dandenault (who topped 100 points in the
>QMJHL one year) to defence, but the change came early in his
>ca

One recent conversion is Ben Clymer of the Tampa Bay Lightning from defense
to forward.  Maybe someone knows more about the reasons for his being
converted?

--
Mike Poplawski
Victoria, BC

Dandy has actually gone back and forth between RW and D his whol career with the
Wings.  Every season he seems to start out at wing, and when the first defense
injury happens he's back on the blue line.

The Wings were close to moving Kirk Maltby back to defense earlier this year
when a few d-men were injured.  It never happened, but the idea got a lot of
coverage in the Detroit papers.

With Fedorov, this isn't his first stint as a d-man.  Several years ago Bowman
was unhappy with Fedorov and "demoted" him to defense for a few games.

Clark Rasmussen
drwcentral.net - The Definitive Detroit Red Wings Resource

You Wrote:
----------
There is an example that springs to mind, but I doubt
there's a solid basis for comparison. The Red Wings
converted Mathieu Dandenault (who topped 100 points in the
QMJHL one year) to defence, but the change came early in his
ca

Lloyd Davis Publishing Services
201-488 Danforth Avenue
Toronto, ON M4K 1P6
416-465-6999 (tel.) /// 416-462-0326 (fax)
loydavis@...

_______________________________________________________

Is Federov really playing "d" or is this the experiment with the Torpedo
system that Bowman was promising he would try on occasion? In a
pre-season Hockey News interview he was talking about how he would try
and implement it on sometimes to take advantage of his team speed.

---

For every problem, there is an answer that is simple, straightforward...
and wrong. H.L. Mencken

-----Original Message-----
From: yzerfan19@... [mailto:yzerfan19@...]
Sent: January 1, 2002 10:21 PM
To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hockhist] Converted Players [was Fedorov Experiment]

Dandy has actually gone back and forth between RW and D his whol career
with the Wings.  Every season he seems to start out at wing, and when
the first defense injury happens he's back on the blue line.

The Wings were close to moving Kirk Maltby back to defense earlier this
year when a few d-men were injured.  It never happened, but the idea got
a lot of coverage in the Detroit papers.

With Fedorov, this isn't his first stint as a d-man.  Several years ago
Bowman was unhappy with Fedorov and "demoted" him to defense for a few
games.

Clark Rasmussen
drwcentral.net - The Definitive Detroit Red Wings Resource

You Wrote:
----------
There is an example that springs to mind, but I doubt
there's a solid basis for comparison. The Red Wings
converted Mathieu Dandenault (who topped 100 points in the
QMJHL one year) to defence, but the change came early in his
ca

Lloyd Davis Publishing Services
201-488 Danforth Avenue
Toronto, ON M4K 1P6
416-465-6999 (tel.) /// 416-462-0326 (fax)
loydavis@...

_______________________________________________________



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The following hockhist poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: How many posts per day should list
members be limited to?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Less than 3, 1 votes, 7.14%
- 3-7, 6 votes, 42.86%
- 7-12, 1 votes, 7.14%
- Unlimited, 6 votes, 42.86%



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