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Death on the Ice   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #52262 of 53037 |
Re: [hockhist] Re:Death on the Ice

This may sound a little on the silly side, but if I worked in a place where I
was regularly getting hit and was not allowed to defend myself when the hits
became "cheap shots," and officiating wasn't fixing it, then yes, I would have
to accept the occasional fight in my line of work.   That being said, not
everyone who does play NHL hockey gets into a fight, though everyone who steps
onto the ice does risk injury from other actions.
 
-Andrew

--- On Sun, 1/4/09, Keith Lenn <hockeycollector@...> wrote:

From: Keith Lenn <hockeycollector@...>
Subject: Re: [hockhist] Re:Death on the Ice
To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 12:09 PM






Craig and Bill,

Bill, as always I enjoy reading your rants. Craig is not wrong in his beliefs
because beliefs are allowed to differ, just as Bill has the right to think his
own way (and Bill, I agree with almost 100% of what you say).

I think Craig's point, and I really don't want to speak for him, is that if
fighting was banned, then at the very least this guy wouldn't be dead. A no
fighting rule of course would have nothing to do with say a Cherapanov or the
Italian kid that got hit int he chest with the stick a few years back, or Travis
Roy for that fact that thankfully did not die but is permanently disabled.

My views on fighting changed a few years ago when a coworker asked me, "How
would you feel if you had to go to work everyday knowing you were going to get
into a fight?"

While I don't mind the fighting, I would still watch if it was banned. I
certainly wouldn't want my son Max (promising player) dropping the gloves unless
it was in self-defense.

---KL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Sun Jan 4, 2009 5:52 pm

puppa93
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Message #52262 of 53037 |
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Craig and Bill, Bill, as always I enjoy reading your rants. Craig is not wrong in his beliefs because beliefs are allowed to differ, just as Bill has the...
Keith Lenn
keithlp
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Jan 4, 2009
5:09 pm

This may sound a little on the silly side, but if I worked in a place where I was regularly getting hit and was not allowed to defend myself when the hits...
Andrew
puppa93
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Jan 4, 2009
5:52 pm

by the way, i agree with this article - fighting should not be banned as a result this death: http://news.therecord.com/Sports/article/466605 thanks! greg...
greg ralls
greg_ralls
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Jan 4, 2009
7:38 pm

Fighting is an issue that will probably never go away as long as the NHL shies away from banning it. I watched several games during the 2002 Olympics. No...
delby202002
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Jan 4, 2009
8:13 pm

i won't argue that nobody ever gets hurt in a fight, but i hope fighting always remains a part of the game despite this terrible turn of events. also, i think...
greg ralls
greg_ralls
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Jan 4, 2009
7:35 pm

Just like to add that over his entire career, Ratelle never had a major penalty. So it wasn't that he rarely dropped the gloves, he never did. Nothing wrong...
Swanrvr80@...
nybos1974
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Jan 4, 2009
8:40 pm

Bill, We'll never agree on this subject but the difference you are missing is body checking is part of the game. It is legal. So is shooting the puck (where...
Craig
craig_1965ca
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Jan 4, 2009
8:51 pm

If I was paid what these guys are I'd have no issue doing it Keith. Nor would I have had that much of an issue when I was 22 or 23 if I was told by a low minor...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 5, 2009
3:30 am

Bill, I hear what you are saying. I love pro boxing too...same thing...Duk Koo Kim, the list goes on...and boxing is much more a brutal sport than hockey....
Keith Lenn
keithlp
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Jan 5, 2009
3:34 am

Keith, Could the league not avoid that stick situation by cracking down on stick fouls? Have to say the CIS bans fighting and I don't see a multitude of stick...
Craig
craig_1965ca
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Jan 5, 2009
10:31 am

You can make the argument that fighting turns off fans more than it attracts them and if that is true why do boxing, football and even.gulp.wrestling outdraw...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 5, 2009
8:19 pm

Bill: Maybe Dave Schultz jerseys were big sellers in the 1970's, but by now I would hope we have progressed a ways beyond the days of the Broad Street...
delby202002
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Jan 6, 2009
6:09 am

Craig it is against the rules sure but with a tongue and cheek. You get five minutes for it! And can we even look at it in the same way as say a high ...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 5, 2009
8:30 pm

Keith I would go to games too without fighting, hell, between youth and NCAA hockey I probably watch more games without it than with it. But you, Craig, and I...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 5, 2009
8:32 pm

I doubt it. And the issue is less the number but the severity of the fouls. In the NCAA it is less the number but rather the way that a guy goes to cheap shot...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 5, 2009
8:38 pm

Bill, There has been no disagreement between you and me. I certainly don't mind a good scrap or two or three. I am just saying that the game can be terribly...
Keith Lenn
keithlp
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Jan 5, 2009
10:38 pm

Bill, If you look back to my first post on this, the point I was making was this; "don't say people don't get hurt in fighting". That was my point. Fans who...
Craig
craig_1965ca
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Jan 6, 2009
1:31 pm

Which is the point Keith.it has an appeal and if they dump it they lose that appeal. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 6, 2009
7:54 pm

I will jump in here with my first post since the beginning of the season. Happy New Year to all! Just my two cents. Helmets almost always come off in fights....
Leslee47@...
treffleslie
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Jan 6, 2009
8:10 pm

Dave, I will offer the following.we really haven't evolved past the Schultz sweater craze. I saw a ton of Domi sweaters in the 90's even in TO. We had Bruise...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 6, 2009
8:37 pm

Bill: I'd wager there have been far more Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Steve Yzerman, Peter Forsberg and Joe Sakic jerseys sold than all the Dave Schultz, Bob...
delby202002
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Jan 7, 2009
2:50 am

And I have never said "no one gets hurt in a fight" just that serious injury is infrequent. And will you put the same onus on fans who like a hard check the...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 6, 2009
8:48 pm

Bill, Again the difference is in all the examples you pose (a hard hit in football, getting hit by a pitch, a crash in NASCAR, etc) those actions are a...
Craig
craig_1965ca
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Jan 7, 2009
12:31 am

Leslie, I can't say I agree with what you are saying but will say you stated your opinion in very eloquent terms and I certainly respect that. Craig ... From:...
Craig
craig_1965ca
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Jan 7, 2009
2:03 pm

Bill, I should add here that we really should not use the term "banning fighting." Even if the NHL and Major Junior had a complete and abrupt change of heart...
Craig
craig_1965ca
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Jan 7, 2009
2:21 pm

Dave, I think it is safe to say that we need more people like you in hockey! Craig ... From: delby202002 To: hockhist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January...
Craig
craig_1965ca
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Jan 7, 2009
6:16 pm

Craig, once again we are back to this point "it is against the rules." But you and I BOTH know that in North America, where you live, people tacitly understand...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 7, 2009
7:01 pm

Dave, first of all is hockey popular? NO! And what level is the most popular outside of Minnesota? The good old goon ridden NHL and minors! Yes there is...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 7, 2009
7:23 pm

... most popular ... Bill: Popularity is a relative term. It is certainly popular enough that there are 30 NHL teams and about four times as many minor-league...
delby202002
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Jan 8, 2009
6:33 pm

Craig on your 4 proposals, the first is a given. The second the NHLPA is against and most pro guys don't like. On three, if you expel a goon you are creating...
William Underwood
wau60
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Jan 7, 2009
7:33 pm
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