I just found out about this group and see my name mentioned :)

I can give results from my Quaker "exercise" using actual NHL game
sheets. There are a number of discepancies between NHL official game
sheet compilations and official stats.

I'm a little under the weather right now, so it will be a few days, but
it will further show how "off" the early official stats probably are.
There were 2 or 3 games where the official game sheets for the Quakers
were missing.

Any suggestions on how you'd like to see these stats ? In a CSV file ?

Peter

CSV sounds good to me.

Thanks,
Doug

--- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "flyershistory"
<flyershistory@...> wrote:
>
> I just found out about this group and see my name mentioned :)
>
> I can give results from my Quaker "exercise" using actual NHL game
> sheets. There are a number of discepancies between NHL official game
> sheet compilations and official stats.
>
> I'm a little under the weather right now, so it will be a few days, but
> it will further show how "off" the early official stats probably are.
> There were 2 or 3 games where the official game sheets for the Quakers
> were missing.
>
> Any suggestions on how you'd like to see these stats ? In a CSV file ?
>
> Peter
>

Below is the csv file.

It contains "scoresheet data" and official data. There are no
official scoresheets for the following Quaker's games:

9-Dec-30 (Quakers' 11th game)
17-Mar-31 (Quakers' 43rd game)

Those stats are based on newspapers.

One noteworthy point was the Aubrey Webster was given one official
game-played, but according to the NHL official scoresheets, he
dressed but did not play in the Quaker's first two games.

Here's the data:

,Scoresheet,,,,,,Official,,,,
Name,GP,G,A,Pts,PIM,,GP,G,A,Pts,PIM
Al Shields,43,7,4,11,100,,43,7,3,10,98
Aubrey Webster,0,0,0,0,0,,1,0,0,0,0
Bill Hutton,22,1,0,1,2,,21,1,1,2,4
Cliff Barton,44,5,7,12,21,,43,6,7,13,18
D'Arcy Coulson,28,0,0,0,103,,28,0,0,0,103
Eddie McCalmon,18,3,0,3,8,,16,3,0,3,6
Gerry Lowrey,42,11,14,25,23,,42,13,14,27,27
Gord Fraser,5,0,0,0,22,,5,0,0,0,22
Harold Darragh,10,1,1,2,4,,10,1,1,2,2
Herb Drury,25,0,3,3,10,,24,0,2,2,10
Hib Milks,44,18,6,24,43,,44,17,6,23,42
Jake Forbes,2,0,0,0,0,,2,0,0,0,0
Jim 'Bud' Jarvis,44,5,7,12,34,,43,5,7,12,30
Joe Miller,15,0,0,0,0,,12,0,0,0,0
Johnny McKinnon,38,1,1,2,46,,39,1,1,2,46
Rennison Manners,4,0,0,0,0,,4,0,0,0,0
Rodger Smith,11,0,0,0,11,,9,0,0,0,0
Ron 'Peaches' Lyons,22,3,3,6,11,,22,2,4,6,8
Stan Crossett,22,0,0,0,10,,21,0,0,0,10
Syd Howe,44,9,11,20,24,,44,9,11,20,20
Tex White,12,3,0,3,0,,9,3,0,3,2
Wally Kilrea,44,9,11,20,26,,44,8,12,20,22
Wilf Cude,32,0,0,0,0,,29,0,0,0,0

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the hockey-databank
group.

   File        : /hdb-2007-06-11.zip
   Uploaded by : dsreyn <dreynolds@...>
   Description : 2006-07 update

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hockey-databank/files/hdb-2007-06-11.zip

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

dsreyn <dreynolds@...>

The major changes in the new release are as follows:

* 2006-07 update
* Added data for three early major leagues (NHA, PCHA, WCHL)
* New tables - TeamSplits (home/road and monthly records) and TeamVsTeam

Doug

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the hockey-databank
group.

   File        : /hdb-2007-06-15.zip
   Uploaded by : dsreyn <dreynolds@...>
   Description : Added 2006-07 award winners

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hockey-databank/files/hdb-2007-06-15.zip

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

dsreyn <dreynolds@...>

This is just a minor update of Monday's release, including the 2006-07
award winners announced last night.  I'm not sure if this year's
Lester Patrick Trophy winners have been announced - I couldn't find
anything about that on NHL.com or ESPN.com.

Doug

Doug Norris has unearthed an error in the 1984-85 stats for Rick St.
Croix.  There's a thread on the hockhist group started by Doug, but in
case anyone here isn't a member of the other group, here's a brief
summary.

Doug found what appears to be a "missing" appearance for St. Croix on
1/9/85, giving the following stat line:

01/09/85 (3-5 vs. BOS) 2 saves, 2 GA, ND, 2:47 TOI

Among other things, this solves an existing problem in the database,
where Toronto's individual goalies were 2 goals against short of the
team total.  So it looks like St. Croix's revised 1984-85 statistics
should be:

12 games, 631 minutes (assuming the 2:47 gets rounded up), 56 goals
against, and 318 shots faced (W/L/T/ENG/shutouts unchanged).

Doug

[also posted to the hockhist group]

I came across this little tidbit this morning (the source apparently
is the 2006 NHL page-a-day calendar):

Mar. 16: 1941 - Montreal Canadiens coach Dick Irvin tries an
innovative tactic by switching goaltenders nine times during a game
against the New York Americans. Irvin alternates between Bert Gardiner
and Paul Bibeault at four- to nine-minute intervals and,
astonishingly, produces a 6-0 win. Depite the success, the tactic
would not be embraced by the coaching fraternity.

OK, so that's an interesting historical curiosity, but here's why I'm
bringing this up.  Montreal had two shutouts in the 1940-41 season
(the other came on 12/28/40, a 3-0 win against the Americans).
However, Bert Gardiner is credited with 2 shutouts that year (for
example, in Total Hockey, and in the stats at LegendsofHockey.net).
It looks to me like Gardiner only deserves credit for 1.

Doug

Is that a statistical anomaly? Has that ever happened before or since
Mar. 16, 1941?

--- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "dsreyn" <dreynolds@...>
wrote:
>
> [also posted to the hockhist group]
>
> I came across this little tidbit this morning (the source apparently
> is the 2006 NHL page-a-day calendar):
>
> Mar. 16: 1941 - Montreal Canadiens coach Dick Irvin tries an
> innovative tactic by switching goaltenders nine times during a game
> against the New York Americans. Irvin alternates between Bert
Gardiner
> and Paul Bibeault at four- to nine-minute intervals and,
> astonishingly, produces a 6-0 win. Depite the success, the tactic
> would not be embraced by the coaching fraternity.
>
> OK, so that's an interesting historical curiosity, but here's why
I'm
> bringing this up.  Montreal had two shutouts in the 1940-41 season
> (the other came on 12/28/40, a 3-0 win against the Americans).
> However, Bert Gardiner is credited with 2 shutouts that year (for
> example, in Total Hockey, and in the stats at LegendsofHockey.net).
> It looks to me like Gardiner only deserves credit for 1.
>
> Doug
>

It's almost likely to be data from here or HAG_list.

Tom

--- dsreyn <dreynolds@...> wrote:

> Nothing definite has been announced, but it sounds
> like Sean Forman and
> company are definitely moving forward on a hockey
> site
> (hockey-reference.com).  The following was part of
> the
> baseball-reference.com blog entry for September 21:
>
> Basketball, Football, Baseball, and Hockey (we are
> getting close on
> acquiring a great data set) will be launching,
> re-launching, or seeing
> significant changes/additions in the next six
> months.
>
> Needless to say, I'm interested to see what they
> come up with for a data
> set.  Also, the message at hockey-reference.com now
> says:
>
> Our apologies for not launching this site sooner,
> but we are talking to
> several groups about acquiring stats and will post
> more notes here, when
> we are closer to having something ready to launch.
>
> Doug
>
>


---------------------------------------------
The 2007 Fans' Scouting Report
http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/











---------------------------------------------



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/

If you take the message on the web site at face value ("we are talking
to several groups about acquiring stats") that theoretically rules out
this group, since I haven't had any contact from them.  I'm not sure
how many other sources are out there though.  Now that Forman has
turned his operation into a full-fledged business, I suppose he could
even be looking into purchasing a database from someone.

Doug

--- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, Tangotiger <tangotiger@...> wrote:
>
> It's almost likely to be data from here or HAG_list.
>
> Tom
>
> --- dsreyn <dreynolds@...> wrote:
>
> > Nothing definite has been announced, but it sounds
> > like Sean Forman and
> > company are definitely moving forward on a hockey
> > site
> > (hockey-reference.com).  The following was part of
> > the
> > baseball-reference.com blog entry for September 21:
> >
> > Basketball, Football, Baseball, and Hockey (we are
> > getting close on
> > acquiring a great data set) will be launching,
> > re-launching, or seeing
> > significant changes/additions in the next six
> > months.
> >
> > Needless to say, I'm interested to see what they
> > come up with for a data
> > set.  Also, the message at hockey-reference.com now
> > says:
> >
> > Our apologies for not launching this site sooner,
> > but we are talking to
> > several groups about acquiring stats and will post
> > more notes here, when
> > we are closer to having something ready to launch.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> The 2007 Fans' Scouting Report
> http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the hockey-databank
group.

   File        : /hdb-2007-10-10.zip
   Uploaded by : dsreyn <dreynolds@...>
   Description : Hockey database, Oct. 10, 2007

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hockey-databank/files/hdb-2007-10-10.zip

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

dsreyn <dreynolds@...>

Here's what's new in the latest version of the database:

* New tables - postseason series (SeriesPost.csv) and combined
shutouts (CombinedShutouts.csv)
* New fields in Scoring.csv - power play and shorthanded assists
(regular season and playoffs) and game-tying goals.  Due to some
shortcomings in the available data, there is also an additional table
called ScoringSup.csv (more details below).
* Lots of corrections.

Power play and shorthanded assists were added from 1987-88 onward.
The regular season numbers are complete from 1991-92 on.  For 1987-88
through 1990-91, there are two areas where the available data is
lacking - there is no data for goalies, and there are no splits for
most players who played for more than one team.  Overall season totals
for multi-team players are given in ScoringSup.csv (null values in
this table exist if the split values are known).  For the playoffs,
PPA and SHA are complete from 2000-01 to present; for 1987-88 through
1999-00, PPA and SHA were unavailable for most goalies.

As mentioned above, there are a lot of corrections in this version,
but a few deserve special mention:

* Several goalie's shutout totals now differ from the "official" numbers:
   - Changed Jim Henry's 1952-53 shutouts from 7 to 8 (see post 59 for
explanation)
   - Changed Clint Benedict's 1927-28 shutouts from 7 to 6 for similar
reasons (game results show only 6 shutouts for the Maroons that year)
   - Lorne Chabot (1928-29) and Bert Gardiner (1940-41) were each
docked one shutout; each had been credited with a combined shutout

* Corrected 1984-85 stats for Rick St. Croix, based on a "missing"
appearance uncovered by Doug Norris (see post 78 for explanation).
Needless to say, thanks to Doug for finding this.

* Brit Selby is now credited with 1 GWG and 1 GTG in 1964-65.  Selby
was omitted from the table in the 1965-66 NHL Guide that gives the
goal breakdown for each team; the Toronto individual GWG and GTG
totals as given in the table fall short by one from the team's total
wins and ties.  Game logs from the Hockey Summary Project indicate
that Selby should be credited for these missing goals.

Doug

I just discovered two problems in Coaches.csv:

1. Darryl Sutter's coaching line for the 1998-99 season (San Jose) was
inadvertently omitted.  His regular season record was 31-33-18, and
his postseason record was 2-4-0.

2. Jack Kelley's record for the 1974-75 New England Whalers should be
3-2-0, not 3-2-5 (he only coached for 5 games).

Doug

I am wondering if anyone knows of reports on the web similar to:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/skaters.htm and
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/goalies.htm

I would be interested if there are others for the NHL and for other
leagues particularly the AHL, OHL, WHL and QMJHL.  The basic need here
is one file with all skater stats and one file with all goalie stats.

Thanks for your help.

Dave

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the hockey-databank
group.

   File        : /hdb-2008-01-16.zip
   Uploaded by : dsreyn <dreynolds@...>
   Description : Hockey database, 1-16-08 (added shootout stats)

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hockey-databank/files/hdb-2008-01-16.zip

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

dsreyn <dreynolds@...>

The new feature in the latest release is shootout statistics for the
last two seasons.  There are two new tables - ScoringShootout.csv and
GoaliesShootout.csv.  As usual, there are also a bunch of minor
corrections (and the latest Lester Patrick award winners were added).

Doug

The Master table currently contains four fields (firstNHL, lastNHL,
firstWHA, lastWHA) that give the years a player was active in the NHL
and WHA.  I'm considering replacing these with one pair of fields to
indicate the span of years for which a player has data in the Scoring
and Goalies tables.  In addition to combining the NHL and WHA years,
this would also include the three older leagues (NHA, PCHA, WCHL).

I don't see this as a major change, but I thought I'd mention this
before going ahead.  If this will cause a serious inconvenience for
anyone, I could be persuaded to leave it alone.

Doug

For those who don't keep tabs on the sports-reference.com blog, this
was mentioned again ("next on the docket is a hockey site") in their
entry for January 10th.

Doug

--- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, Tangotiger <tangotiger@...> wrote:
>
> It's almost likely to be data from here or HAG_list.
>
> Tom
>
> --- dsreyn <dreynolds@...> wrote:
>
> > Nothing definite has been announced, but it sounds
> > like Sean Forman and
> > company are definitely moving forward on a hockey
> > site
> > (hockey-reference.com).  The following was part of
> > the
> > baseball-reference.com blog entry for September 21:
> >
> > Basketball, Football, Baseball, and Hockey (we are
> > getting close on
> > acquiring a great data set) will be launching,
> > re-launching, or seeing
> > significant changes/additions in the next six
> > months.
> >
> > Needless to say, I'm interested to see what they
> > come up with for a data
> > set.  Also, the message at hockey-reference.com now
> > says:
> >
> > Our apologies for not launching this site sooner,
> > but we are talking to
> > several groups about acquiring stats and will post
> > more notes here, when
> > we are closer to having something ready to launch.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> The 2007 Fans' Scouting Report
> http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>

On a data design issue, every single field should
represent one and only one thing.  Merging data into
one field is not a good idea.

Tom


--- dsreyn <dreynolds@...> wrote:

> The Master table currently contains four fields
> (firstNHL, lastNHL,
> firstWHA, lastWHA) that give the years a player was
> active in the NHL
> and WHA.  I'm considering replacing these with one
> pair of fields to
> indicate the span of years for which a player has
> data in the Scoring
> and Goalies tables.  In addition to combining the
> NHL and WHA years,
> this would also include the three older leagues
> (NHA, PCHA, WCHL).
>
> I don't see this as a major change, but I thought
> I'd mention this
> before going ahead.  If this will cause a serious
> inconvenience for
> anyone, I could be persuaded to leave it alone.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
> mailto:hockey-databank-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>


---------------------------------------------
Tim Raines, Hall of Fame 2008
http://www.raines30.com/










---------------------------------------------


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Hi Doug,

This is some great work that you've assembled here.  A question: have
you placed any limits on its use or is it free for anyone to do as
they wish?  I've kind of kicked around the idea of putting together a
solid numbers site...I'm sure Forman et al. will do a good job but, as
far as I know, they have no hockey background.

Anyway - I found an error.  There's a guy, Lin Bend, who played for
teh Rangers in the 40's during WW2.  I was going through your data and
according to it, he was 15 at the time.  I was wondering if he was
hockey's Joe Nuxhall but, according to the Rangers, nope.

http://rangers.nhl.com/team/app?page=HistoricalPlayerDetail&pkey=8445051&service\
=page

--- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, "tp_dellow" <mudcrutch@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> This is some great work that you've assembled here.  A question: have
> you placed any limits on its use or is it free for anyone to do as
> they wish?  I've kind of kicked around the idea of putting together a
> solid numbers site...I'm sure Forman et al. will do a good job but, as
> far as I know, they have no hockey background.

There are no restrictions of any kind.  Of course, an acknowledgment
would be appreciated if this database is used for anything else, but
it's not required.  I'm hoping that as people find various uses for
the database, we'll get corrections and improvements like the one below.

> Anyway - I found an error.  There's a guy, Lin Bend, who played for
> teh Rangers in the 40's during WW2.  I was going through your data and
> according to it, he was 15 at the time.  I was wondering if he was
> hockey's Joe Nuxhall but, according to the Rangers, nope.
>
>
http://rangers.nhl.com/team/app?page=HistoricalPlayerDetail&pkey=8445051&service\
=page

Good catch!  Total Hockey (2nd) lists Bend's birthdate as 12/20/1922,
instead of 1927, giving him a much more credible age for his 1942
appearances.  This will be fixed in the next release.

Doug

I agree with Tom, it's better to keep every single field separate and
representing one thing only. I like the idea of separate years for
the NHL and WHA because for argument sake, it's easier to sort data
for the players from each of those leagues, let alone those who
played in both leagues.

Eric

--- In hockey-databank@yahoogroups.com, Tangotiger <tangotiger@...>
wrote:
>
> On a data design issue, every single field should
> represent one and only one thing.  Merging data into
> one field is not a good idea.
>
> Tom
>
>
> --- dsreyn <dreynolds@...> wrote:
>
> > The Master table currently contains four fields
> > (firstNHL, lastNHL,
> > firstWHA, lastWHA) that give the years a player was
> > active in the NHL
> > and WHA.  I'm considering replacing these with one
> > pair of fields to
> > indicate the span of years for which a player has
> > data in the Scoring
> > and Goalies tables.  In addition to combining the
> > NHL and WHA years,
> > this would also include the three older leagues
> > (NHA, PCHA, WCHL).
> >
> > I don't see this as a major change, but I thought
> > I'd mention this
> > before going ahead.  If this will cause a serious
> > inconvenience for
> > anyone, I could be persuaded to leave it alone.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >     (Yahoo! ID required)
> >
> > mailto:hockey-databank-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Tim Raines, Hall of Fame 2008
> http://www.raines30.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>

Hi,

Can anyone provide me with suggestions as to where i would be able to find
demographic
data concerning the chicago and detroit NHL target markets?  I have to complete
a project for
school that proposes the next NHL Winter Classic to be held in Soldier Field
between the
Blackhawks and red wings.  Thanks.

Hi,
I'm a first time poster, long time lurker.

I would like some advice on where to start at automatically ingesting
stats and how most of you are collecting and storing data. Flat files,
relational databases, excel files? Are you screen scraping, or are
there RSS feeds or spreadsheets publicly available that make life easier?

Currently, all of my stats are entered by hand into a relational DB,
which makes the end of the season rather busy, so I would really like
to start automating some of the bigger leagues if I can. Luckily, I
have programming skills, so it shouldn't be too intimidating, but I
just don't know where to start. I same some PBP files mentioned. Where
do these come from? Finally, I noticed that hockey DB appears to have
an agreement with PointStreak for some leagues. I suppose he has a
feed of some sort because he is the well known hockeyeb.com. Are there
such services available to the public?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

James
www.losthockey.com

I apologize for the off-topic post, but...

If anyone is interested in starting a similar project for basketball,
I have a basketball database that I can make available.  The database
download from databasebasketball.com (the 2.0 version) was used as a
starting point, but my current version differs significantly from the
original:

- Updated through 2006-07 (except for draft data, which is only
current through 2004)
- Many corrections and additions, as the original database had LOTS of
errors and omissions.  For example, several hundred missing player
playoff records were added, many missing splits for multi-team players
were added, and a number of statistical errors have been fixed.
- Player and team IDs have been modified to correspond to
basketball-reference.com (a few player IDs may still differ)
- Lots of other changes - missing data now represented by nulls
instead of zeros, added proper coach IDs, added additional fields to
the team table, etc.

For a variety of reasons, I don't have the interest in running a
basketball database project myself.  So if anyone is interested in
taking this on, please contact me offline.

Doug

The Sports-Reference team has launched their hockey site today
(www.hockey-reference.com).  According to the site blog, they obtained
their data through a licensing deal with Dan Diamond and Associates.
The data is essentially NHL only at this point; they have data for
minor leagues and other major leagues, but only for players who played
in the NHL (so for example, there are no WHA standings or season
summaries).

Doug

I just uploaded a zip file (2008preview.zip) with a preliminary
version of the 2007-08 update.  This doesn't include all of the tables
that are in a normal release (and I left out the readme and notes
files), but if anyone is anxious to get their hands on 2007-08 regular
season data, this should get you by until the full update is released
(probably in June).

Note that the Master table has a bunch of new fields - height, weight,
shooting hand, three additional name fields, and six fields for death
information.

Doug