This just came in.  If correct, what a shame.  I know many LBCers that have
nothing but the best to say about John Twist and University Motors.
--Scott Morris;
Simcoe, Ontario, Canada;
Austin Healey 3000 -'60 MkI BN7 & '62 MkII BT7
 
Re:          [mg-tabc] FYI University Motors
Date:      Monday, June 1, 2009 12:47 PM
From:     "Sally Carroll" <sallycarroll@...>
To:          "Group T ABC's" <mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com>
I have learned that John Twist is closing down University Motors as of the end
of June.
Bench work will still be accepted for a time and an auction of tools and
memorabilia and parts will be held in October.
--Sally Carroll, Russell Ohio
TC 6466,   TF 7227,   YB 0610,   MGA 70355 ,   MGBGT 246221 For Sale!,   Morris
Pickup 80622 needs front pipe
 
J. Scott Morris - Keep Smiling,  Murphy Lives


       __________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the historicrally
group.

   File        : /Software/Halda Trip Calibration M&K.xls
   Uploaded by : sabresix_1964 <gwcooper@...>
   Description : Trip/Twinmaster calibration

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/historicrally/files/Software/Halda%20Trip%20Calibr\
ation%20M%26K.xls

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

sabresix_1964 <gwcooper@...>

I've never heard of it and I've tried to make a list of all known rally
equipment. Would like to see a photo and/or description of it.

Bill


--- On Wed, 4/22/09, dlvad <dlvad@...> wrote:

> From: dlvad <dlvad@...>
> Subject: [Historic Rallying] Interton rally timer/calculator inquiry...
> To: historicrally@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 10:42 AM
> Hello,
> Might anyone have any information or knowledge of mid-late
> 1970 - early 1980 Interton products?
> I acquired a 1980 Alpina B7 turbo coupe 7yrs ago and one of
> these units
> is mounted on a flexible gooseneck - After dismantling and
> repairing a few bits it is now functioning I also have a
> typed card mounted on the co-driver side describing its use.
>
> Any info on this calculator is appreciated.
> Thanks.
> cheers,
> DV
>

Hello,
Might anyone have any information or knowledge of mid-late 1970 - early 1980
Interton products?
I acquired a 1980 Alpina B7 turbo coupe 7yrs ago and one of these units
is mounted on a flexible gooseneck - After dismantling and repairing a few bits
it is now functioning I also have a typed card mounted on the co-driver side
describing its use.

Any info on this calculator is appreciated.
Thanks.
cheers,
DV

According to "Old Stager", the HRCR's excellent magazine, there has been another
240Z rally victory this year!
Nigel and Paula Broderick won the Nile Trial, organised by the Endurance Rally
Association, in a 240Z. The event was a 15 day rally across Tunisia, Lybia and
Egypt.


http://www.endurorally.com/index.html
photo's
http://www.amazingphotostore.co.uk/gerardbrown/gallerymodule.php?ct=mgc&pg=1&gl=\
12192&THESESSION_GERARDBROWN=57eaa4f559405599d9270c54f8318360

I know this is not a vintage car, but still he is part of the greater Rallye
Community out there.

Joe Ackerman of ITN / Into The Night Rallye Team reported his 2005 silver Subaru
WRX (lic: CARZERO) stolen on Thursday March 12th @ 7pm from the area around
Wilshire and 26th St. in W|Los Angeles.

If found please contact Joe Ackerman @ 310 350 1360

[IMG]http://photos-h.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v1978/193/97/792803807/n7928\
03807_1213503_7712.jpg[/IMG]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1719832

Please forward this email.

Thanks,

Jane Barker

Yes that's how it was driven. Have no idea how precise it was, would love to see
inside one.


--- On Tue, 3/10/09, W David Teter <teter@...> wrote:
> aah! an old ancient name Kearfott - I never saw one but only
>
> pictures...very few of us these days would know of this
> device.  As I  recall a 'ball and chain' drive on the device???
>


> On Tue, 10 Mar 2009, Bill Jonesi wrote:
>
> > A Kearfott Rally Computer just went on Ebay for US
> $876.66!! I didn't think they would get the $200
> starting price. The last two that showed up
> ('99-'01) went for around $100.
> >
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110358953097&sspag\
ename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

A Kearfott Rally Computer just went on Ebay for US $876.66!! I didn't think they
would get the $200 starting price. The last two that showed up ('99-'01) went
for around $100.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110358953097&sspag\
ename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=

Also you could go to www.classicrallychat.co.uk it won't take much effort to
join. I am sure there are people ready to grab what you
have got. Second thoughts - I could post the info and your email address if you
agree.
Regards
Geoff



-----Original Message-----
From: historicrally@yahoogroups.com [mailto:historicrally@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tim Winker
Sent: 07 March 2009 03:01
To: Historic Rally eGroup; ASCC
Cc: andrewlindberg@...; Don Barrow Rally Equip; Glenn Wallace; John
Brown; HRC Elkhart Lake; Haldaman@...; Michael
Barone; Paddy Hopkirk; philip.ethier@...; ralph@...;
Bywayent@...; Thomas Griffin; WaltKammer@...;
kdemotte@...; Ben Bradley; Ed Brennan; John Buffum; Scott Carlborn;
RallyAmerica; jbniday@...
Subject: [Historic Rallying] An accumulation of rally stuff FS

Hello list members,

Received this note via my semi-dormant site: VintageRally.net.  Anyone
interested?

= = = = =
I have a collection of Rally ephemera that I want to dispose of for a
decent price. Can you recommend the best place to advertise, are there
auctions that specialise in rally memorabilia?

The contents include:
8 x 8mm reel films from 1960 / 1962. Including rally's and interviews from
Uganda; Entebbe, Dares Salaam; Isle of Man; Monte Carlo; London to Sydney.
1 x cassette tape F1 documentary.
Signed Photo - Ari Vatenen 1970
Rally sport racing quiz 1974 (Questions and Answers)
Rally Course Book 1983 - 1984, Rothmans RAC Championships
Various Press Releases from Fords - Biographies with B/W photo's - 1972
East African Safari - Includes Jim Porter; Hannu Mikkola; Klaus Kaiser
Various Business cards incl Jim Clark; Tony Mason
16 x various press release's (embargoed) with photo's - Ford's new
production range for 1972 - Granada, Capri, Consul etc
Folder - Rallye Sports Parts - Ford RS. Over 60 pages, including
biographies/ photo's of drivers incl: Francois Cervert; Emmerson
Fittipaldi; Jackie Stewart; Graham Hill; Also includes Motor Manufacturers
(Brabham; March etc) biographies and AVO performance component information.
1 x A4 Photo b/w of final 14 applicants for female driver for Ford's
Testing track 1972
Various other photos - including Tony Mason; Roger Clarke; Jim Porter;
David Emerey:
Various Ford's stickers (blue badge)
Various international driving licences - drivers and crew - incl photo's
and stamps

Further details on request.



Kindest regards

Belinda Metson

Tel 07711 690088

= = = = =
Tim Winker
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Vintage Ice And Gravel Rally Racing Association
[ V. I. A. G. R. R. A. ]



------------------------------------

----------------------------
The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links




______________________________________________________________________
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For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________

Tim, I WANT the Ford RS stuff, the Ford press releases, the 1972 production
range, anything Ford. I call it MINE! Hook me up brother! Thanks, Norm
Murdock


> Hello list members,
>
> Received this note via my semi-dormant site: VintageRally.net.  Anyone
> interested?
>
> = = = = =
> I have a collection of Rally ephemera that I want to dispose of for a
> decent price. Can you recommend the best place to advertise, are there
> auctions that specialise in rally memorabilia?
>
> The contents include:
> 8 x 8mm reel films from 1960 / 1962. Including rally's and interviews from
> Uganda; Entebbe, Dares Salaam; Isle of Man; Monte Carlo; London to Sydney.
> 1 x cassette tape F1 documentary.
> Signed Photo - Ari Vatenen 1970
> Rally sport racing quiz 1974 (Questions and Answers)
> Rally Course Book 1983 - 1984, Rothmans RAC Championships
> Various Press Releases from Fords - Biographies with B/W photo's - 1972
> East African Safari - Includes Jim Porter; Hannu Mikkola; Klaus Kaiser
> Various Business cards incl Jim Clark; Tony Mason
> 16 x various press release's (embargoed) with photo's - Ford's new
> production range for 1972 - Granada, Capri, Consul etc
> Folder - Rallye Sports Parts - Ford RS. Over 60 pages, including
> biographies/ photo's of drivers incl: Francois Cervert; Emmerson
> Fittipaldi; Jackie Stewart; Graham Hill; Also includes Motor Manufacturers
> (Brabham; March etc) biographies and AVO performance component
> information.
> 1 x A4 Photo b/w of final 14 applicants for female driver for Ford's
> Testing track 1972
> Various other photos - including Tony Mason; Roger Clarke; Jim Porter;
> David Emerey:
> Various Ford's stickers (blue badge)
> Various international driving licences - drivers and crew - incl photo's
> and stamps
>
> Further details on request.
>
>
>
> Kindest regards
>
> Belinda Metson
>
> Tel 07711 690088
>
> = = = = =
> Tim Winker
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Vintage Ice And Gravel Rally Racing Association
> [ V. I. A. G. R. R. A. ]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------
> The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


Team Blitz, 2-1/2 million Capri parts in 7 warehouses. New, Used,
Restoration, and Racing parts technology for your 1970-78 European-built
Capri. http://www.teamblitz.com

Hello list members,

Received this note via my semi-dormant site: VintageRally.net.  Anyone
interested?

= = = = =
I have a collection of Rally ephemera that I want to dispose of for a
decent price. Can you recommend the best place to advertise, are there
auctions that specialise in rally memorabilia?

The contents include:
8 x 8mm reel films from 1960 / 1962. Including rally's and interviews from
Uganda; Entebbe, Dares Salaam; Isle of Man; Monte Carlo; London to Sydney.
1 x cassette tape F1 documentary.
Signed Photo - Ari Vatenen 1970
Rally sport racing quiz 1974 (Questions and Answers)
Rally Course Book 1983 - 1984, Rothmans RAC Championships
Various Press Releases from Fords - Biographies with B/W photo's - 1972
East African Safari - Includes Jim Porter; Hannu Mikkola; Klaus Kaiser
Various Business cards incl Jim Clark; Tony Mason
16 x various press release's (embargoed) with photo's - Ford's new
production range for 1972 - Granada, Capri, Consul etc
Folder - Rallye Sports Parts - Ford RS. Over 60 pages, including
biographies/ photo's of drivers incl: Francois Cervert; Emmerson
Fittipaldi; Jackie Stewart; Graham Hill; Also includes Motor Manufacturers
(Brabham; March etc) biographies and AVO performance component information.
1 x A4 Photo b/w of final 14 applicants for female driver for Ford's
Testing track 1972
Various other photos - including Tony Mason; Roger Clarke; Jim Porter;
David Emerey:
Various Ford's stickers (blue badge)
Various international driving licences - drivers and crew - incl photo's
and stamps

Further details on request.



Kindest regards

Belinda Metson

Tel 07711 690088

= = = = =
Tim Winker
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Vintage Ice And Gravel Rally Racing Association
[ V. I. A. G. R. R. A. ]

Hi all,

Those of you particularly interested in marathon rallies might be
interested in a couple of items I have just put on ebay.

First is a rally booklet from the 1969 Daily Express London-Sydney
Marathon.  Pictures and stories of the rally, results and awards.
Produced by the event sponsor The Daily Express of London to
celebrate the success of the rally.

Second is a package of items from the 1970 Daily Mirror London-Mexico
World Cup Rally including official rally programme, ticket for the
start event at Wembley Stadium, two route maps and a book of all the
newspaper cuttings from the Daily Mirror coveraghe of this great
rally.

I'm having a bit of a clear out and would like these to go to someone
who will nejoy them

Bob Shearer
1965 Hillman Imp Rallye
Inverness, Scotland

I would almost bet money that this is the source of the counters.
http://www.lafayetteevaluation.com/default.asp

The rest of what I see in the photo looks like something made by a
rallyist!  The counters would just advance a click each time there is
an electrical impulse applied.  The rest of what is there is probably
just a switch (to generate the impulses) operated by a cam that is
driven by some gear ratio off of the speedometer cable.

I built a variety of such setups many years ago using a hall effect
switch mounted on the wheel.  Everything was non-mechanical and
sealed in epoxy.  The only real problem was a sealed bearing but they
were relatively cheap.   A minimal amount of electronics and you had
a factorable odometer.

SD



--- In historicrally@yahoogroups.com, "steven Silverstein"
<milano164@...> wrote:
>
> All very good information.  I hadn't seen any Lafayette instruments
> either which had prompted the question.   The system looks well
built
> and thought out.
>
> I keep wondering if there is a way to utilize this system again.
>
> IF by chance somebody has some ideas please feel free to write me
> directly.
>
> On the other-hand Maybe it would be best just to leave it alone...
just
> as a novelty of the period.
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Steven Silverstein
>

I posted to the rallychat.com early last year and some good information
popped up.  In fact, that's how I found the first image of HOP750.
Somebody suggested looking there.

(under rally archive, memorabilia.  March 25, 2007 post. There's a
couple of pictures of the red car)

It is just such an odd car.  Not too many Alpine were used as rally
cars.   The Rapier had a class advantage whereas the Alpine as at a
class disadvantage.

Steve

Why not join www.classicrallychat.com and see if anybody comes up with anything
Regards
Geoff


-----Original Message-----
From: historicrally@yahoogroups.com [mailto:historicrally@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of steven Silverstein
Sent: 22 October 2008 13:22
To: historicrally@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Historic Rallying] On another Alpine note.... John Melvin / Paddy
Hopkirk

A few years ago I found an Alpine in Scotland which featured the
factory aluminum doors, hood and, at one time probably the trunk lid
(but the car had been hit in the rear and it is a steel lid now).
This is very similar to the factory race cars that ran at Le Mans and
Sebring.  However, this car appeared to be setup for a rally versus
endurance race.

The alloy hood is definitely a factory piece since the stamping
forming the bracing is allow, too.  Doors are factory pieces, too.
Very unique.  I only know of about 15 or so sets alloy panels ever
being made for the Alpine/Tiger.

At first I thought it might be John Melvin's Alpine he won the
Scotish rally.    Now I wonder if it couldn't have been Paddy
Hopkirk's Alpine which he rallied for a short period.  I have never
been able to find a definitive answer.

Given Alloy panels were very unique - and there are some other
details regarding this car which suggest it wasn't an afterthought.
Perhaps it was a special car at the time.

With that, If anybody comes across photos of Paddy's Alpine (there is
front view of the car in Paddy's book) would you let me know?

The car would be a very tough restoration but I hate to do anything
until I figure more details out.

Thanks,

Steven Silverstein



------------------------------------

----------------------------
The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links




______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
______________________________________________________________________

A few years ago I found an Alpine in Scotland which featured the
factory aluminum doors, hood and, at one time probably the trunk lid
(but the car had been hit in the rear and it is a steel lid now).
This is very similar to the factory race cars that ran at Le Mans and
Sebring.  However, this car appeared to be setup for a rally versus
endurance race.

The alloy hood is definitely a factory piece since the stamping
forming the bracing is allow, too.  Doors are factory pieces, too.
Very unique.  I only know of about 15 or so sets alloy panels ever
being made for the Alpine/Tiger.

At first I thought it might be John Melvin's Alpine he won the
Scotish rally.    Now I wonder if it couldn't have been Paddy
Hopkirk's Alpine which he rallied for a short period.  I have never
been able to find a definitive answer.

Given Alloy panels were very unique - and there are some other
details regarding this car which suggest it wasn't an afterthought.
Perhaps it was a special car at the time.

With that, If anybody comes across photos of Paddy's Alpine (there is
front view of the car in Paddy's book) would you let me know?

The car would be a very tough restoration but I hate to do anything
until I figure more details out.

Thanks,

Steven Silverstein

All very good information.  I hadn't seen any Lafayette instruments
either which had prompted the question.   The system looks well built
and thought out.

I keep wondering if there is a way to utilize this system again.

IF by chance somebody has some ideas please feel free to write me
directly.

On the other-hand Maybe it would be best just to leave it alone... just
as a novelty of the period.

Best Regards,


Steven Silverstein

In 40 years in and out of the sport and twenty years of buying and selling
old rally equipment, I never heard of Lafayette rally equipment. I tend to
agree  with others that these are electric counters that someone cobbled up to a
Stevens or homemade sending unit. I have encountered stuff like that over the
years. One such encounter might be of interest.
When my Turner vintage race car was under construction, I bought some parts
from a former Sprite racer in Boiling Springs, Pa. named Ray Stone. As I was
poking around his garage, I noticed several identical spiral bound orange
booklets on a shelf.  Yup, it turned out to be copies of "Floyd's Factors",  the
well known book of minute per mile factors. Ray was Floyd's son. I managed  to
pry a copy of the book from Ray. Also on offer that day was a pair of
electrical counters, a backlash of wire and some undocumented gizmos. Clearly, 
it
was the remains of an odometer set up built by Floyd. I don't remember the
name on the counters, except that it wasn't Stevens.
Small world.
Len


In a message dated 10/21/2008 8:20:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jay.johannes@... writes:




and quite possibly using a Stevens inline sending unit with cam driven  micro
switch. I used one of those in my early days.


Jay  Nemeth-Johannes
3420 Riverside Street
Rockford, Illinois 61103
(815)  708-0423
(970) 290-9797 (Cell)
www.SmartSensorSystwww.Smar<_http://www.smartsenhttp://www.http_
(http://www.smartsensorsystems.com/) >

_____

From: _historicrally@historicrallhis_ (mailto:historicrally@yahoogroups.com)
  [mailto:_historicrally@historicrallhis_
(mailto:historicrally@yahoogroups.com) ]
On  Behalf Of Bill Jonesi
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:02 PM
To: _historicrally@historicrallhis_ (mailto:historicrally@yahoogroups.com)
Subject:  Re: [Historic Rallying] Lafayette rally instruments  odometers
(mid-60's)

In all my research I've never seen "Lafayette"  listed in any rally book as a
supplier of rally equipment. After looking at  the photos I think Walt is
correct, it's probably a home brew using  Lafayette counters, similar to what
many did with Veeter-Root  counters.

Bill

--- On Tue, 10/21/08, WaltKammer@aol.  <mailto:WaltKammer%mailto:Wa> com
<WaltKammer@WaltKamme<mailto:WaltKammer%mailto:Wa> com> wrote:

> From:  WaltKammer@aol. <mailto:WaltKammer%mailto:Wa> com  <WaltKammer@Walt
<mailto:WaltKammer%mailto:Wa>  com>
> Subject: Re: [Historic Rallying] Lafayette rally instruments  odometers
(mid-60's)
> To: historicrally@  <mailto:historicralmailto:historicrmail>
yahoogroups.yah
>  Cc: WaltKammer@aol. <mailto:WaltKammer%mailto:Wa> com
> Date:  Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 7:06 AM
> Steve,
>
> Can't tell  for sure from the photos since there is NOT
> a close up of the
>  odometers in the group which I found, but I would make the
> comment  that since
> the car has a PA dealer on it that Lafayette was a  popular
> consumer-oriented
> electronics and electrical shop  located throughout the
> northeastern USA back in
> the 1960's  through sometime around 1973 or so when they
> went out of
>  business. I know that they sold a line of 12 volt
> electromechanical  counters (some
> with reverse, manual reset, and paused switches on  them).
>
> I myself used many of their counters for a  homemade
> odometer on my rally MGB
> during the day. In fact I  still have a couple of them
> around in my junk
> bins. None the  less, I think that your characterization of
> the setup as a
>  "Lafayette Rally Instrument(s)  "Lafayette
> real. If you post a  better close up
> of the electromechanical counter I bet I might  recognize
> it. The
> traditional setup was "home made" by the  various
> car owners and usually consisted of a
> speedometer  shop fabricated "T" fitting which
> would go behind the stock
>  speedometer.
>
> There would then be a mechanical speedometer  cable which
> would run to an
> accessible location. At that  location there would be
> either a "home made" gear
> train (to  get the number of revolutions per mile down to
> something like 100
> revolutions per mile).
>
> The better setups used a  plastic gearbox with
> interchangeable gears (4 of
> them). Using  a simple calculation the navigator could
> "correct" the odometer
> calibration factor to "official rally miles"
> through  consultation of the table
> after running the odo-check. The table  would give the
> "new" combination of
> the 4 little gears that  would result in 100 revolutions of
> the mechanical
> cable per  true rallymaster mile.
>
> ON THE OUTPUT of the gearbox (either  the homemade one, or
> the 4-gear
> commercial box), there would  be a cam and a microswitch
> wired in series with the
> battery  and the counters. For each revolution of the
> cable, the microswitch
> would click out one pulse that corresponded to 0.01 miles
> (or  kilometers). And
> that was that. Very simple and most people who were
> serious about the sport
> made one (or had an engineer buddy  make one for them).
>
> I have several of the little gearboxes  which I could post a
> photo of should
> anyone be interested.  They were a specialty item but were
> sold by several
> rally  shops, Competition Limited (owned by the recently
> deceased Gene  Henderson)
> sold them. In the end, this setup was a cheap  alternative
> to the
> commercial Halda and Gemini units which  did the same thing
> using metal gears. But
> both of the latter  were strictly mechanical whereas the
> setups like yours was
>  electromechanical in nature.
>
> Some variations included a front  wheel hub driven
> mechanical cable that
> would supposedly  "eliminate" mileage errors due
> to driven wheel spinning, but
>  most rallies of that timeframe were not "zero
> hero" events where  mileage
> measurements and calculations to the 0.001 minute
>  determined the winners and losers.
> Of course, the Halda SpeedPilot  crowd were not up to that
> accuracy or
> resolution anyway, and  believe me there was many a fast
> event won by
>  SpeedPilot-based crews on both sides of the Atlantic.
>
> If you  post the photo I will see if the font on the name
> looks like the
> Lafayette Electronics logo format.
>
> Regards,
>  Walt Kammer
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/21/2008  9:34:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> milano164@comcast.  <mailto:milano164%mailto:milmai> net writes:
>
>
>
>
> I recently acquired a Sunbeam with a set of  Lafayette rally
> instruments in
> the location of the cubby  box.
> It is a really nice setup with two pairs.
>
> I am  trying to find out more information on these
> odometers. I am guessing
> they are early "impulse" versions since there is
> a cord with  an RCA jack that
> looks like it might have plugged in near the  speedo.
> Does anyone remember this company? Not sure if they  will
> ever work again but
> they are neat.
>
> (I  will have to talk to the Electrical engineeers at
> work.... surely  there
> would be a way to generate a signal to use these odometers
> again...)
>
> I added a couple of photos to the group.  It really is a
> nice original car.
>
> Steve
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ************ ************<WBR>**New MapQuest Local  show
> at your destination.
> Dining, Movies,  Events, News & more. Try it out
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(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) >
mapquest.com/mapquest.com/<WBmapquest
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
>
>  ------------  ----  ----  -
>
>  ------------  ----  --
> The Historic Rallying  GroupYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions  of this message have been removed]




**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

and quite possibly using a Stevens inline sending unit with cam driven micro
switch.  I used one of those in my early days.


Jay Nemeth-Johannes
3420 Riverside Street
Rockford, Illinois 61103
(815) 708-0423
(970) 290-9797 (Cell)
www.SmartSensorSystems.com <http://www.smartsensorsystems.com/>




   _____

From: historicrally@yahoogroups.com [mailto:historicrally@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Jonesi
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:02 PM
To: historicrally@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Historic Rallying] Lafayette rally instruments odometers
(mid-60's)



In all my research I've never seen "Lafayette" listed in any rally book as a
supplier of rally equipment. After looking at the photos I think Walt is
correct, it's probably a home brew using Lafayette counters, similar to what
many did with Veeter-Root counters.

Bill

--- On Tue, 10/21/08, WaltKammer@aol. <mailto:WaltKammer%40aol.com> com
<WaltKammer@aol. <mailto:WaltKammer%40aol.com> com> wrote:

> From: WaltKammer@aol. <mailto:WaltKammer%40aol.com> com <WaltKammer@aol.
<mailto:WaltKammer%40aol.com> com>
> Subject: Re: [Historic Rallying] Lafayette rally instruments odometers
(mid-60's)
> To: historicrally@ <mailto:historicrally%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> Cc: WaltKammer@aol. <mailto:WaltKammer%40aol.com> com
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 7:06 AM
> Steve,
>
> Can't tell for sure from the photos since there is NOT
> a close up of the
> odometers in the group which I found, but I would make the
> comment that since
> the car has a PA dealer on it that Lafayette was a popular
> consumer-oriented
> electronics and electrical shop located throughout the
> northeastern USA back in
> the 1960's through sometime around 1973 or so when they
> went out of
> business. I know that they sold a line of 12 volt
> electromechanical counters (some
> with reverse, manual reset, and paused switches on them).
>
> I myself used many of their counters for a homemade
> odometer on my rally MGB
> during the day. In fact I still have a couple of them
> around in my junk
> bins. None the less, I think that your characterization of
> the setup as a
> "Lafayette Rally Instrument(s)" is likely not
> real. If you post a better close up
> of the electromechanical counter I bet I might recognize
> it. The
> traditional setup was "home made" by the various
> car owners and usually consisted of a
> speedometer shop fabricated "T" fitting which
> would go behind the stock
> speedometer.
>
> There would then be a mechanical speedometer cable which
> would run to an
> accessible location. At that location there would be
> either a "home made" gear
> train (to get the number of revolutions per mile down to
> something like 100
> revolutions per mile).
>
> The better setups used a plastic gearbox with
> interchangeable gears (4 of
> them). Using a simple calculation the navigator could
> "correct" the odometer
> calibration factor to "official rally miles"
> through consultation of the table
> after running the odo-check. The table would give the
> "new" combination of
> the 4 little gears that would result in 100 revolutions of
> the mechanical
> cable per true rallymaster mile.
>
> ON THE OUTPUT of the gearbox (either the homemade one, or
> the 4-gear
> commercial box), there would be a cam and a microswitch
> wired in series with the
> battery and the counters. For each revolution of the
> cable, the microswitch
> would click out one pulse that corresponded to 0.01 miles
> (or kilometers). And
> that was that. Very simple and most people who were
> serious about the sport
> made one (or had an engineer buddy make one for them).
>
> I have several of the little gearboxes which I could post a
> photo of should
> anyone be interested. They were a specialty item but were
> sold by several
> rally shops, Competition Limited (owned by the recently
> deceased Gene Henderson)
> sold them. In the end, this setup was a cheap alternative
> to the
> commercial Halda and Gemini units which did the same thing
> using metal gears. But
> both of the latter were strictly mechanical whereas the
> setups like yours was
> electromechanical in nature.
>
> Some variations included a front wheel hub driven
> mechanical cable that
> would supposedly "eliminate" mileage errors due
> to driven wheel spinning, but
> most rallies of that timeframe were not "zero
> hero" events where mileage
> measurements and calculations to the 0.001 minute
> determined the winners and losers.
> Of course, the Halda SpeedPilot crowd were not up to that
> accuracy or
> resolution anyway, and believe me there was many a fast
> event won by
> SpeedPilot-based crews on both sides of the Atlantic.
>
> If you post the photo I will see if the font on the name
> looks like the
> Lafayette Electronics logo format.
>
> Regards,
> Walt Kammer
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/21/2008 9:34:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> milano164@comcast. <mailto:milano164%40comcast.net> net writes:
>
>
>
>
> I recently acquired a Sunbeam with a set of Lafayette rally
> instruments in
> the location of the cubby box.
> It is a really nice setup with two pairs.
>
> I am trying to find out more information on these
> odometers. I am guessing
> they are early "impulse" versions since there is
> a cord with an RCA jack that
> looks like it might have plugged in near the speedo.
> Does anyone remember this company? Not sure if they will
> ever work again but
> they are neat.
>
> (I will have to talk to the Electrical engineeers at
> work.... surely there
> would be a way to generate a signal to use these odometers
> again...)
>
> I added a couple of photos to the group. It really is a
> nice original car.
>
> Steve
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening
> at your destination.
> Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
> (http://local. <http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002>
mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------
> The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In all my research I've never seen "Lafayette" listed in any rally book as a
supplier of rally equipment. After looking at the photos I think Walt is
correct, it's probably a home brew using Lafayette counters, similar to what
many did with Veeter-Root counters.

Bill


--- On Tue, 10/21/08, WaltKammer@... <WaltKammer@...> wrote:

> From: WaltKammer@... <WaltKammer@...>
> Subject: Re: [Historic Rallying] Lafayette rally instruments odometers
(mid-60's)
> To: historicrally@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: WaltKammer@...
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 7:06 AM
> Steve,
>
> Can't tell for sure from the photos since there is NOT
> a close up of the
> odometers in the group which I found, but I would make the
> comment that since
> the car has a PA dealer on it that Lafayette was a popular
> consumer-oriented
> electronics and electrical shop located throughout the
> northeastern USA back in
> the 1960's through sometime around 1973 or so when they
> went out of
> business.  I know that they sold a line of 12 volt
> electromechanical  counters (some
> with reverse, manual reset, and paused switches on them).
>
> I myself used many of their counters for a homemade
> odometer on my  rally MGB
> during the day.  In fact I still have a couple of them
> around in  my junk
> bins.  None the less, I think that your characterization of
> the  setup as a
> "Lafayette Rally Instrument(s)" is likely not
> real.  If you post  a better close up
> of the electromechanical counter I bet I might recognize
> it.  The
> traditional setup was "home made" by the various
> car owners and  usually consisted of a
> speedometer shop fabricated "T" fitting which
> would go  behind the stock
> speedometer.
>
> There would then be a mechanical speedometer cable which
> would run to an
> accessible location.  At that location there would be
> either a "home made"  gear
> train (to get the number of revolutions per mile down to
> something like 100
> revolutions per mile).
>
> The better setups used a plastic gearbox with
> interchangeable gears (4 of
> them).  Using a simple calculation the navigator could
> "correct" the  odometer
> calibration factor to "official rally miles"
> through consultation of  the table
> after running the odo-check.  The table would give the
> "new"  combination of
> the 4 little gears that would result in 100 revolutions of
> the  mechanical
> cable per true rallymaster mile.
>
> ON THE OUTPUT of the gearbox (either the homemade one, or
> the 4-gear
> commercial box), there would be a cam and a microswitch
> wired in series with the
> battery and the counters.  For each revolution of the
> cable, the  microswitch
> would click out one pulse that corresponded to 0.01 miles
> (or  kilometers).  And
> that was that.  Very simple and most people who were
> serious about the sport
> made one (or had an engineer buddy make one for  them).
>
> I have several of the little gearboxes which I could post a
> photo of should
> anyone be interested.  They were a specialty item but were
> sold by several
> rally shops, Competition Limited (owned by the recently
> deceased Gene Henderson)
>  sold them.  In the end, this setup was a cheap alternative
> to the
> commercial Halda and Gemini units which did the same thing
> using metal  gears.  But
> both of the latter were strictly mechanical whereas the
> setups  like yours was
> electromechanical in nature.
>
> Some variations included a front wheel hub driven
> mechanical cable that
> would supposedly "eliminate" mileage errors due
> to driven wheel spinning, but
> most rallies of that timeframe were not "zero
> hero" events where mileage
> measurements and calculations to the 0.001 minute
> determined the winners and  losers.
>  Of course, the Halda SpeedPilot crowd were not up to that
> accuracy  or
> resolution anyway, and believe me there was many a fast
> event won by
> SpeedPilot-based crews on both sides of the Atlantic.
>
> If you post the photo I will see if the font on the name
> looks like the
> Lafayette Electronics logo format.
>
> Regards,
> Walt Kammer
>
>
>
> In a message dated 10/21/2008 9:34:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time,
> milano164@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> I recently acquired a Sunbeam with a set of Lafayette rally
> instruments in
> the location of the cubby box.
> It is a really nice setup with two pairs.
>
> I am trying to find out more information on these
> odometers. I am  guessing
> they are early "impulse" versions since there is
> a cord with an RCA  jack that
> looks like it might have plugged in near the speedo.
> Does anyone  remember this company? Not sure if they will
> ever work again but
> they are  neat.
>
> (I will have to talk to the Electrical engineeers at
> work....  surely there
> would be a way to generate a signal to use these odometers
> again...)
>
> I added a couple of photos to the group. It really is a
> nice  original car.
>
> Steve
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
>
>
>
> **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening
> at your destination.
> Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
> (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------
> The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Walt,

I have added a few more images the photo section under "Sunbeam Alpine". 
Hopefully you
can view these clear enough to see the Lafayette stamping on the odometer boxes.

Steve

Okay, lads! I have just heard from my TSD navigator, Russ Kraushaar, about
his adventures in the Mount Hood rally, a full-on stage rally-with
motorcycles?!-near Portland. His account almost-ALMOST!-makes me want to get
back into the full-on stand-on-it rally game, so I thought you might enjoy
it, too.

Next up for the two of us is the Totem Rally in BC in November, I think,
most likely in my Saab Sonett. Those brisk Canadian gravel rallies may not
be full-speed stage rallies, but they keep my adrenaline circulating. As the
say about Totem, "Winter roads with summer ditches." And as Peter Fox (I
think) once put it, "Remember, for every mile of road, there's two miles of
ditches!"

Satch Carlson
______________________________

Satch:

We had a great weekend on the mountain! Garth Ankeny and I finished 9th
overall and second in class to a much faster Honda CRX Si at the Mt. Hood
Rally. We started the event near the tail end of the field, but the very
twisty stages meant our 1970 Saab 96, with its meager 70 or so horsepower at
the front wheels, could run fairly close to more powerful entries. I've
already learned that Garth will drive faster if the car is letting him down
mechanically and pissing him off. (He tried to break it and failed on one
event. Sounds a little scary, but it was fun!) This weekend I learned he
will drive it just as hard if you re-seed him from the tail end to the
middle of the pack among the faster cars. We moved up about six positions on
the re-seed. then overtook the PGT class Subaru 2.5RS ahead of us in the
final results. With a few more stages in the dark and/or dust, we might have
caught the Open Class car ahead of them as well!

This is one of the few events that allows recce. I really dig recce! I feel
like I'm contributing to the effort rather than reading notes that either
distract or slow the driver for cautions. Too often I'm just chattering
ballast with a timepiece for getting us into controls on time. For this
event, we spent Friday driving the stages in Garth's Saab 95 wagon at no
more than 35 mph; they don't allow rally cars on stages during recce.
(Something about putting a driver in a car with a cage makes a 35-mph speed
limit impossible to maintain.) The process goes like this: Garth describes
every inch of the stage: the length of any straight sections in yards, the
direction of each corner-right or left-the severity of the corner from 1 to
6 (hairpin to very fast), and any other important characteristics like
corners we can cut and those we shouldn't-and places we wouldn't want to
find ourselves testing the strength of the roll cage. I takes notes as
quickly as possible.

We try to keep an even speed, without stopping, to assure consistency. Then
we drive the stages a second time with me reading the notes back to him
looking for any corrections we should make.

The result is pretty exciting. We blast off on the live stages Saturday with
me reading one or two corners ahead, depending on how quickly the corners
follow one another, and Garth drives the wheels off the car. It's very
gratifying to know the driver is going into blind corners as fast as he can,
trusting that what you've told him will come next is true. This, of course,
can work against you in a bad way if you should get lost in your notes or
turn two pages instead of one. . . . When this happens (and it does) it's
best for me to keep quiet until I can positively identify where we're at in
my notes.

We're just after 1:00 minute into this video---the red Saab 96 #439:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ov_tazEYbw
The car that beat us in class is the very fast white-and-black CRX near the
beginning of the video.

There are some great shots at
http://www.pdxsports.com/photos/showindex.asp?folder=2008MtHood
The other Saab 96 (the white one #296) is one of Garth's customers, Cliff
Johannsen. Garth did the mechanical work prepping the car. This was its
first venture into the woods.

You can find results here:
http://www.mthoodrally.com/2008/

Life is good!

Russ Kraushaar

Walt,

This is great information.   When I return home tonight I will try and take
clear photos of the units.
It really is a clever setup.   I wish I had the opportunity to talk with the
original owner regarding these units.  He moved to Flordia so there might be a
chance I can track him down.

I'll write you tonight to let you know that I have uploaded the image.

Steve

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve,

Can't tell for sure from the photos since there is NOT a close up of the
odometers in the group which I found, but I would make the comment that since
the car has a PA dealer on it that Lafayette was a popular consumer-oriented
electronics and electrical shop located throughout the northeastern USA back in
the 1960's through sometime around 1973 or so when they went out of
business.  I know that they sold a line of 12 volt electromechanical  counters
(some
with reverse, manual reset, and paused switches on them).

I myself used many of their counters for a homemade odometer on my  rally MGB
during the day.  In fact I still have a couple of them around in  my junk
bins.  None the less, I think that your characterization of the  setup as a
"Lafayette Rally Instrument(s)" is likely not real.  If you post  a better close
up
of the electromechanical counter I bet I might recognize  it.  The
traditional setup was "home made" by the various car owners and  usually
consisted of a
speedometer shop fabricated "T" fitting which would go  behind the stock
speedometer.

There would then be a mechanical speedometer cable which would run to an
accessible location.  At that location there would be either a "home made"  gear
train (to get the number of revolutions per mile down to something like 100
revolutions per mile).

The better setups used a plastic gearbox with interchangeable gears (4 of
them).  Using a simple calculation the navigator could "correct" the  odometer
calibration factor to "official rally miles" through consultation of  the table
after running the odo-check.  The table would give the "new"  combination of
the 4 little gears that would result in 100 revolutions of the  mechanical
cable per true rallymaster mile.

ON THE OUTPUT of the gearbox (either the homemade one, or the 4-gear
commercial box), there would be a cam and a microswitch wired in series with the
battery and the counters.  For each revolution of the cable, the  microswitch
would click out one pulse that corresponded to 0.01 miles (or  kilometers).  And
that was that.  Very simple and most people who were  serious about the sport
made one (or had an engineer buddy make one for  them).

I have several of the little gearboxes which I could post a photo of should
anyone be interested.  They were a specialty item but were sold by several
rally shops, Competition Limited (owned by the recently deceased Gene Henderson)
  sold them.  In the end, this setup was a cheap alternative to the
commercial Halda and Gemini units which did the same thing using metal  gears. 
But
both of the latter were strictly mechanical whereas the setups  like yours was
electromechanical in nature.

Some variations included a front wheel hub driven mechanical cable that
would supposedly "eliminate" mileage errors due to driven wheel spinning, but
most rallies of that timeframe were not "zero hero" events where mileage
measurements and calculations to the 0.001 minute determined the winners and 
losers.
  Of course, the Halda SpeedPilot crowd were not up to that accuracy  or
resolution anyway, and believe me there was many a fast event won by
SpeedPilot-based crews on both sides of the Atlantic.

If you post the photo I will see if the font on the name looks like the
Lafayette Electronics logo format.

Regards,
Walt Kammer



In a message dated 10/21/2008 9:34:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
milano164@... writes:




I recently acquired a Sunbeam with a set of Lafayette rally instruments in
the location of the cubby box.
It is a really nice setup with two pairs.

I am trying to find out more information on these odometers. I am  guessing
they are early "impulse" versions since there is a cord with an RCA  jack that
looks like it might have plugged in near the speedo.
Does anyone  remember this company? Not sure if they will ever work again but
they are  neat.

(I will have to talk to the Electrical engineeers at work....  surely there
would be a way to generate a signal to use these odometers  again...)

I added a couple of photos to the group. It really is a nice  original car.

Steve

[Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]




**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recently acquired a Sunbeam with a set of Lafayette rally instruments in the
location of the cubby box.
It is a really nice setup with two pairs.

I am trying to find out more information on these odometers.   I am guessing
they are early "impulse" versions since there is a cord with an RCA jack that
looks like it might have plugged in near the speedo.
Does anyone remember this company?    Not sure if they will ever work again but
they are neat.

(I will have to talk to the Electrical engineeers at work.... surely there would
be a way to generate a signal to use these odometers again...)

I added a couple of photos to the group.   It really is a nice original car.

Steve

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Another obituary:
         http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/3219388/Pat-Moss.html

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: historicrally@yahoogroups.com [mailto:historicrally@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Chris Hunt Cooke
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 2:39 PM
To: historicrally@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Historic Rallying] Pat Moss-Carlsson

Yes, it is true, she died on 14th October after a long illness.

Obituary here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article4964575.ece

Chris Hunt Cooke

----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Scott Morris" <jstmorris@...>
To: "Historic Rally" <historicrally@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: [Historic Rallying] Pat Moss-Carlsson



I received word that Pat Moss passed away recently but can not find any official
announcement. She was one of the best rally drivers from the late 50''s - 60's.
My condolences to her husband, Eric, family and friends.
--Scott Morris; Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
J. Scott Morris - Keep Smiling, Murphy Lives

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


------------------------------------

----------------------------
The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links








------------------------------------

----------------------------
The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links

Yes, it is true, she died on 14th October after a long illness.

Obituary here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article4964575.ece

Chris Hunt Cooke

----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Scott Morris" <jstmorris@...>
To: "Historic Rally" <historicrally@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: [Historic Rallying] Pat Moss-Carlsson



I received word that Pat Moss passed away recently but can not find any
official announcement. She was one of the best rally drivers from the late
50''s - 60's.
My condolences to her husband, Eric, family and friends.
--Scott Morris; Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
J. Scott Morris - Keep Smiling, Murphy Lives

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


------------------------------------

----------------------------
The Historic Rallying GroupYahoo! Groups Links

I received word that Pat Moss passed away recently but can not find any official
announcement.  She was one of the best rally drivers from the late 50''s - 60's.
My condolences to her husband, Eric, family and friends.
--Scott Morris; Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
J. Scott Morris - Keep Smiling, Murphy Lives

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all;  Bonhams Auction on September 19,  2008 at Goodwood Revival, Chichester,
Sussex has quite a number of interesting items. 
 
As Kirk Kvam pointed out on Wednesday, Rally Car 67 ARX, Lot No: 355 is on the
block.  The property of a titled gentleman, the ex-works, Seigle-Morris,
Makinen, Hopkirk, Morley twins, 1962 Austin-Healey 3000 MkII Rally Car
 Registration no. 67 ARX is to be sold.
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&scre\
en=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4085450&iSaleNo=16252&iSaleSectionNo=2
 
There is also quite a number of trophy¢s to be auctioned from the rally days of
Ann Wisdom, Tommy Wisdom, and Mrs Elsie Wisdom; see from about Lot 85 to about
Lot 153
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&scre\
en=Catalogue&iSaleNo=16252
 
Finally, there is a fine and detailed scale Austin Healey 3000 Mk II child's
car; just what you always wanted.
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&scre\
en=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=4013861&iSaleNo=16252&iSaleSectionNo=1
 
Enjoy!!  --Scott Morris; Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
J. Scott Morris - Keep Smiling, Murphy Lives


       __________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

KIM (mie)

Thanks for the response and contribution to what narration, etc. I hope to do
with video and stills.

As to adding letters, you smile and are way more personnable than that
roundy-round Kimmi.
So thus I added the 'e', to go along with your self-stated  environmentally
aware   and  eco-friendly to make you Kimmie.
With due respect to JR, any other comparisons or letters such as OA and OBE are
up to you.

the DEnVIL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]