I went back to playing with my Dr Evil on my Donic All-Play blade this evening. 

It was nice getting back to the feel of this racket.



While waiting to play, I compared the well used rubber on my regular racket to

some newer rubber on a seldom used blade and noticed that the older rubber

seemed to have a bit more grip than the newer sheets.  Upon closer examination,

it seems as though the abrasion of regular play does alter the way it plays a

bit - and this got me thinking...



If Friendship/729 would put a texture on the pimples and either thicken the base

or add a linen backing, I think they would have something that is even closer in

playing characteristics to Leyland rubber.  I have no idea if such changes are

practically possible or not.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Interesting observation, sir.  As to the modifications you propose... it would

be moving toward a "Butterfly Orthodox" type of material... yes.. .with

different compound and pip configuration, but I like the idea.



Meanwhile... gets me to thinking.... IF... on were to modify the surfaces of the

pips by lightly scrubbing them with sandpaper... how might that effect

performance?



Later!



Larry "Boneman" Bone

Dingmans Ferry, PA

> Interesting observation, sir.  As to the modifications you propose... it would

be moving toward a "Butterfly Orthodox" type of material... yes.. .with

different compound and pip configuration, but I like the idea.



Well, the idea is to make Dr Evil more Leyland like, not more like Butterfly

Orthodox.  Though I do see your point.



The Leyland that I have has textured pips tops, and while playing with Scott's

3-ply Hock at the HB Classic, I noticed that the Leyland on it had a cloth

backing.



I've heard two somewhat consistent complaints about Dr Evil.  The first is that

it is somehow "plastic" and the second is that it has anti-spin characteristics.

I believe that a texture on the tops of the pips will give them a less variable

character - resulting is slightly less maximum spin and somewhat less ability to

"glass" the ball letting it slip by using a light stroke.  And I believe that a

slightly thicker base and/or a fabric backing will moderate what some people

perceive as the "plastic" feel of the rubber.



> Meanwhile... gets me to thinking.... IF... on were to modify the surfaces of

the pips by lightly scrubbing them with sandpaper... how might that effect

performance?



That might be worth a try.  I suppose I could bond a thin layer of linen under

the rubber as well.  Of course it would be completely illegal, but it might give

a hint as to what any changes might bring.  Not that I have any notion about how

to get 729/Friendship to make the changes if they were desired.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

> Well, the idea is to make Dr Evil more Leyland like, not more like Butterfly

Orthodox.  Though I do see your point.



I've not (yet) had the pleasure of hitting with Leyland so perhaps my frame of

reference is off a bit.



> The Leyland that I have has textured pips tops, and while playing with Scott's

3-ply Hock at the HB Classic, I noticed that the Leyland on it had a cloth

backing.



OK... the Butterfly Orthodox that I have on my bat is cloth backed and the pips

do also have a textured surface.



> I've heard two somewhat consistent complaints about Dr Evil.  The first is

that it is somehow "plastic" and the second is that it has anti-spin

characteristics.



"Plastic" is an interesting description.  As to the anti-spin...  yeah, I can

certainly see that.  I play a fellow at work regularly that is strictly an

hardbatter.  Not that you see him checking in here or anything... however, I

usually loan him the one bat I have that has Dr. Evil on it.  I'll play with my

squishy Yasaka MKV blade and fire some rat nasty junk at him and yes... I

daresay the Dr. Evil has quite a bit of anti-spin characteristics.



> I believe that a texture on the tops of the pips will give them a less

variable character - resulting is slightly less maximum spin and somewhat less

ability to "glass" the ball letting it slip by using a light stroke.



Hmmm.  Well a textured pip surface would make it more consistent with other

approved materials, no?



>  And I believe that a slightly thicker base and/or a fabric backing will

moderate what some people perceive as the "plastic" feel of the rubber.



Ah... yes... now I get the "plastic" feel and it makes sense.  I believe you're

correct in putting something... be it a laminatoin of fabric or even a bit more

rubber back there... would provide for a little more "give" in the pip.



> That might be worth a try.  I suppose I could bond a thin layer of linen under

the rubber as well.



Methinks that could be easily accomplished.... by first affixing the fabric ...

and I think a cheesecloth or something similarly... "transparant" first to the

blade and then gluing the rubber on top.



>  Of course it would be completely illegal, but it might give a hint as to what

any changes might bring.



Absolutely it would.



> Not that I have any notion about how to get 729/Friendship to make the changes

if they were desired.



I think it might be easier to get the committee to approve the fabric lamination

process.  Providing of course, that pursuant to other attributes, the bat

remains within the parameters of what is considered to be a hardbat.



Either way, excellent food for thought.  I would like to see a little more

thickness on the Dr. Evil as it's quite a challenge to put on the blade.



Cheers!



Larry "Boneman" Bone

Dingmans Ferry, PA

So yesterday I was playing the fellow at work that gives me the most difficulty

as far as spin, et.  We've a tournament in the works and I've been playing the

squishy in preparation....  Very effectively against all opponents save this

fellow.



This guy is a southpaw and puts a LOT of junk on the ball.  He disguises it very

well.  My fault too... as I was kind enough to re-store the bat his dad brought

back from Japan 35 years ago (a very nicely preserved Butterfly Hichop oversized

unit).  I play first two games with the squishy and lose.  Badly.



Fark it, I say... and break out the new red / black hardbat.  Dr. Evil on a

5-ply 729 Black Whirlwind blade.  Knowing that the red side is higher COF, I

originally played that on my backhand... to no avail....



Switched it around (red on the forehand) and handily defeated him 21 - 11.



Anti-Spin?  Yeah, I definitely think there may be something to that.  My game

against him went from an intense struggle to read and counter spin.... to a much

more effective attacking game that I'm used to playing.



Interesting how not having to dedicate so much energy and concentration into the

reading of spin... can allow for better focus on other parts of the game.



When the time comes to play him "officially" for the tournament, most assuredly,

I know what weapon to choose.



Cheers!



Larry "Boneman" Bone

Dingmans Ferry, PA

> Fark it, I say... and break out the new red / black hardbat.  Dr. Evil on a

5-ply 729 Black Whirlwind blade.  Knowing that the red side is higher COF, I

originally played that on my backhand... to no avail....

>

> Switched it around (red on the forehand) and handily defeated him 21 - 11.

>

> Anti-Spin?  Yeah, I definitely think there may be something to that.  My game

against him went from an intense struggle to read and counter spin.... to a much

more effective attacking game that I'm used to playing.



What kind or rubber was on his racket?



Anyway, as to the anti-spin bit, I just don't know.  When I use Dr Evil, it

seems to put exactly the spin on the ball that I'd expect.  If a sponge player

loops a ball and I block it, it tends to come out dead.  But frankly, that's

what happens with Butterfly Orthodox, the Hardbat Classic racket and with

Leyland rubber.



We have a player at the club who was playing with anti-spin on both sides of his

racket.  He blocks close to the table and counter attacks with relatively flat

shots.  I watched his style of play and suggested that he try hardbat - which he

did.  He was immediately at home with hardbat and Dr Evil.



He also played and trained for the Hardbat Classic and had no problem adapting

to the use of that racket which uses a pretty spinny rubber.  Every topspin ball

that he blocks back to me comes back dead with no spin using that spinny

Killerspin rubber.



Since I've never used anti-spin rubber, I don't know if Dr Evil behaves like

anti-spin or not.  When playing sponge players, I find that the relatively low

spin of any hardbat tends to confuse them.  It doesn't matter if I'm using

Leyland, Dr Evil, Butterfly Orthodox, or the Killerspin racket.  The spinnier

the rubber, the lower the level of confusion, but they still have trouble

reading the ball - pretty much in proportion to their playing level.  The better

and more experienced the player, the greater the confusion.  Two years ago when

I played with short pips (802-40)and sponge on my backhand for a bit, I ran into

similar reactions.  My conclusion is that lots of players only know how to read

and deal with the behavior of spinny sponge rubber.



> Interesting how not having to dedicate so much energy and concentration into

the reading of spin... can allow for better focus on other parts of the game.



I agree.  I think that is one of the things that attracts me to hardbat.



> When the time comes to play him "officially" for the tournament, most

assuredly, I know what weapon to choose.



My bet is that you will get a similar result using any hardbat.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Well, I went down to JoAnn's and bought some Linen.  Last night I used

TearMender to bond it to the back of some Dr. Evil.



The process is simply.  I apply a liberal amount of TearMender to the back of

the rubber, lay the rubber onto a sheet of linen that is sitting on a piece of

glass, and then roller the sandwich out smoothly.  I let that dry for an hour or

so and then peeled the sandwich off of the glass.  I applied a second coat of

TearMender to the linen, making sure that the linen would be fully saturated

with this second coat.  I rollered it back onto the glass and let it set

overnight.



The rubber was .055" thick when I started and measured .07" after the linen was

added.



I glued the linen backed Dr Evil onto a blade this morning and will test it out

tonight.  I tried using very coarse sandpaper to texture the pips, but it didn't

seem to do much other than remove a small amount of material from the rim/edge

of the pips tops.



On a further note, I looked at a sheet of Gambler Peackeeper OX and noticed that

the pips tops of this rubber are textured.  I'm in the process of bonding some

linen to this sheet right now.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

BTW, I used TearMender because it is essentially water based latex.  It dries

fairly slowly (making it pretty easy to work with) leaving behind a somewhat

clear rubber.  Being water based, I can use it inside without stinking up the

house.  Rubber cement would probably work as well since it too leaves behind

rubber solids when the solvents have evaporated. But the solvents are more

hazardous and best used outside or with very good ventilation.



I used real linen and not a linen-like fabric.  I chose linen because that is

what is used in other fabric backed rubbers.  A little reading on the properties

of linen reveals that linen fibers are strong and do not tend to stretch.  So I

guess the point in using linen is that it provides a strong and stable base.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Well, I played with my modified Dr Evil last night.  To re-cap, I used

TearMender to add a linen backing to a sheet of Dr Evil rubber.  The sheet went

from being .055" thick to being .07" thick (1.4mm to 1.8mm).  I glued the rubber

to my backup Donic Waldner All Play - a five ply all wood modern blade.  The

modified sheet was red.  I put a standard black sheet of Dr Evil on the other

side of the blade.  Here are links to some photos of the result.



http://www.jayandwanda.com/tt/rubber/TT018511_sm.jpg

http://www.jayandwanda.com/tt/rubber/TT018513_sm.jpg



When I bounce a ball on the linen backed rubber I get somewhat duller and lower

pitch noise than I get from the unmodified side.  The ball doesn't bounce as

high off of the modified rubber as it does from the standard rubber.  Though the

difference is not dramatic.



So Wednesday night I played two matches at a "so-so" level using my other All

Play with unmodified Dr Evil losing the first match to a moderately strong

looper and having a hard time blocking his loops down.  But I won the second

match exerting some effort against a somewhat lower rated pips-out hitter.  I

didn't feel very in sync with the racket last night.  I might have thought that

this was because I'm coming off of playing exclusively with the Hardbat Classic

racket, but I felt very much in sync on Monday playing with Dr Evil.



Next up is a 1872 rated penhold player.  He quickly loops just about any ball

that doesn't bounce twice, blocks of the bounce, and will quick hit anything

loose.  While I regularly take games off of this player, I think I've only

beaten him once or twice in a match.  I decided to use the modified Dr Evil

against him.



In warm-up, I notice that that on strong strokes, the linen-backed rubber seems

to require a slightly more closed racket angle.  But I also notice that it

handles incoming strong topspin balls more easily.  There's more control - more

absorption of the ball's energy.



As the match begins, things seem pretty typical.  I play a close first game but

lose. So I change strategy and decide to really focus on rolling balls and

avoiding pushing as much as possible. I also concentrate on making controlled

shots and not going for early winners.  Things start to click.  I feel less

pressure from the other guy's game and more in control.  I'm getting points on

good placement and on his mis-hits on longer rallies.  In the fifth game, the

game where he usually re-exerts control, I'm the one who exerts control and win.

Hmmm.  Was it strategy or was that linen making a difference?



I won a couple more matches that I'm expected to win and end up playing the

penholder again.  I win the first game easily.  I'm in control of everything.  I

find that I'm able to either strongly attack his side-underspin serves to my

backhand using my forhand or am able to make a slow topspin return deep.  I'm

pushing very few balls back, taking away his attack. I win the first game

easily.  Too easily.  It feels odd.  I'm leading in the second game but make a

few silly mistakes.  I think I lost focus for a bit.  The other fellow wins a

close game.  In the third and fourth games, I'm in near total contol.  I can

roll or attack just about any shot including his serves which I'm often taking

with my forehand with the linen backed Dr Evil.



When the other guy does get in an attack, I'm able to control many of his strong

topspin shots.  Backhand or forehand, I'm blocking two and three loops back in a

row (I still need to work on my chopping game).  But the forehand seems to suck

energy out of the shots a bit better. I win the match easily 3-1.  That, folks,

just doesn't happen with me playing this fellow.  I never win easily.  Ever.



A couple matches later, I play him again.  I think he's bugged by the losses. 

He needs to figure out what's happening. He wins this one 3-2.  Frankly, I think

this is a combination of me being tired now after six or more straight matches

without a break.



Anyway, the upshot is this.  I think the linen adds a degree of additional

control.  It may also increase the ball's dwell time on the racket, increasing

spin capability to a small degree.  It has a feel now that is closer to the

3-ply Hock with Leyland that I played with against Bob Palgon in Vegas (a racket

borrowed from Scott Gordon).



Did it make Dr Evil more "sponge-like?"  I'm not sure.  Maybe a little in some

ways.  But it made the racket overall a little slower as well, which isn't

sponge-like.



I'll play with it more this weekend against the robot and maybe other humans and

let y'all know what I think.  But right now I really like the modification for

the extra control that it allows me.  And that's a shame since the modification

is illegal.  It does make me think right now that if they were to add a linen

backing to Dr Evil from the factory, increasing the base thickness slightly,

that it would move the rubber that much closer to having a classic Leyland feel.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Nicely done on all counts Jay.  The pics of the affixment show a level of

attention to detail and craftsmanship that appeals to me immensely.



The results... you must be well pleased.  OK... so perhaps it's not hardbat

legal but it sounds to me like you've cobbled together a very effective weapon

for certain circumstances.  The right tool for the right job!



As to quantifying what it is you're "feeling"... I'm not sure if adding the

backing would change COF numbers.... but it certainly would change the overall

compression and yield of the material.



A most interesting experiment yielding excellent results!



BRAVO!!!!



Larry "Boneman" Bone

Dingmans Ferry, PA

> Nicely done on all counts Jay.  The pics of the affixment show a level of

attention to detail and craftsmanship that appeals to me immensely.



Well, there really isn't much craftsmansip involved.  Rollering the sandwich

against glass gives a nice smooth result.



> The results... you must be well pleased.  OK... so perhaps it's not hardbat

legal but it sounds to me like you've cobbled together a very effective weapon

for certain circumstances.  The right tool for the right job!



I'm conflicted.  The modification is not legal for any USATT or ITTF event. 

Besides, it is only one evenings play.



Further, I confirmed a second variable that was hinted at Wednesday, but I

confirmed today.  My second All Play felt different.  Somehow the grip felt

different.  But I jumped quickly into playing and didn't check it out.  Well, it

turns out that my second All Play has a bigger grip and is larger than my main

racket.  I had left my previous back-up blade at the club months ago, and it

never was returned.  So I bought a new backup.  This new blade is NOT identical.

The blade is about 1/5" taller.  The handle is bigger and the blade is wider. 

Overall, the racket is a big larger than my original one.



It could be that there is nothing to the linen backing and the difference was

all in the blade and my different approach to the match.  Hmmmmm....



BTW, I'm thinking of packing up a bunch of rubbers and sending them to you for

COF testing.  You are still good for that?



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

> BTW, I'm thinking of packing up a bunch of rubbers and sending them to you for

COF testing.  You are still good for that?



Sure!  Send 'em on down the line.  I'll drag the sled over 'em!



Still... sounds like experimenting was fun...



Cheers!



Larry "Boneman" Bone

Dingmans Ferry, PA

> Sure!  Send 'em on down the line.  I'll drag the sled over 'em!



OK.  I think I'll send you one of everything I have.  Can you test if the rubber

is still attached to a racket?  I don't want to remove the Leyland rubber.



> Still... sounds like experimenting was fun...



Oh sure.  It really was.  I may do some more hitting with it and the PeaceKeeper

OX with linen tonight.  Maybe I can be more objective when hitting against the

robot.



I noticed that the Leyland I have does not have a linen backing. Also, one sheet

of the Reisman rubber I have has no cloth backing either.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

> OK.  I think I'll send you one of everything I have.  Can you test if the

rubber is still attached to a racket?



Absolutely!



>I don't want to remove the Leyland rubber.



And risk damaging it???? NO WAY!!!!  I shall treat it as if it were a Museum

Piece!



> Oh sure.  It really was.  I may do some more hitting with it and the

PeaceKeeper OX with linen tonight.  Maybe I can be more objective when hitting

against the robot.



Yes... more consistent "incoming" shots for sure.



> I noticed that the Leyland I have does not have a linen backing. Also, one

sheet of the Reisman rubber I have has no cloth backing either.



Interesting stuff... and so much for "consistency", eh?



Cheers!



Larry "Boneman" Bone

Dingmans Ferry, PA

Larry and Jay:



If it might be of interest (and assuming you haven't already seen it),

there is a magnified scan of Original Leyland on the Yahoo HatdBat site

in the "Files" section. It's titled "Leylnd-8X.jpg" (note the absent

'a') and is dated 16 Jan '03.



It shows the surface of a piece of rubber removed from a Hock bat

vintage 1963, and played with *very* seldom during the interim. The bat

in question came directly from Bernie, in response to a letter I sent

him from the wilds of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan during my time

there as a B-52 pilot.



The scale in the scan is a portion of a stainless steel optical rule,

calibrated in MMs.



See:   Leylnd-8X.jpg    16 Jan '03



Larry:  as long as you're checking out files, a picture of the

"inclinometer" device I mentioned in regard to estimating relative COFs

is posted there, as well.  The device was made by Jeff Louie from

California, who went by the Yahoo ID of "red99cat"



See:   Analyzer.jpg   dated 14 Jun'01



Jeff and I collaborated on the file titled  "  Phase1.1study.doc " which

you may find of interest as well.  Among other things, it proposes a

methodology for describing and comparing some characteristics of pimpled

rubbers.  Jeff composed the rather elegant text, for which I claim no

credit.



See:   Phase1.1study.doc    29 Jun '01



Although I address this message to Jay and Larry, I would welcome

comments from other HardBatters on the subject of equipment, especially

concerning the feasibility of designing "Functional Tests"; measurement

modalities, the results of which could be be used to "qualify" blades

and rubbers.



Larry Bone wrote:

> Interesting observation, sir.  As to the modifications you propose... it would

be moving toward a "Butterfly Orthodox" type of material... yes.. .with

different compound and pip configuration, but I like the idea.

>

> Meanwhile... gets me to thinking.... IF... on were to modify the surfaces of

the pips by lightly scrubbing them with sandpaper... how might that effect

performance?

>

> Later!

>

> Larry "Boneman" Bone

> Dingmans Ferry, PA

>

> If it might be of interest (and assuming you haven't already seen it),

> there is a magnified scan of Original Leyland on the Yahoo HatdBat site

> in the "Files" section. It's titled "Leylnd-8X.jpg" (note the absent  'a') and

is dated 16 Jan '03.



Thanks.  That looks like what I have on my Tim Wright blade.  I added some

close-ups of Dr Evil and PeaceKeeper OX to the file sections for comparison

purposes.   I may re-do them with a rule for calibration.



Haven't read the study document, but will do that some time this weekend.



Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com