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Historical Distortion   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #8190 of 8703 |
Re: Historical Distortion

Let's be realistic: classic table tennis, like it was played in the "Golden Era", is now dead and buried, and even if the ITTF had immediately banned the first sponge bats in the 50's, and that all players would still use hard rubbers nowadays, table tennis would have evolved in terms of material and technique, and become different compared to the 40's. That's the case of most (all?) sports during the passed 60 years, and table tennis wouldn't have escaped to that rule. So now, the reflexion that we must have is not how to get back to the real classic table tennis, but how to develop hardbat (junk or not) in the "Sponge Era".

USA chose to create a short list of authorised rubbers, to avoid the spiniest ones, and be as close as possible to the classic rubbers, but according to Marty, even these rubbers are very different from the Leyland or Barna, and no new rubber has been added to this list for a long time, even if a lot of other references would deserve to be. And anyway, even with that kind of material, most players use adapted "sponge skills" to play hardbat, rather than a classic style, because it's the way they learn to play.

Germany chose to play hardbat with the current table tennis rules (except the one concerning the rubbers of course), and authorises all short pips rubbers without sponge, even the spiniest ones. Matches are generally played in 11 points sets, and with 40 mm balls. In 2006, there were 554 players in the German hardbat ranking, and in 2008 and 2009, there were a few tournaments with more than 100 entries (140 this year in Sandershausen).

In France, we have no real rules for the moment, but what I notice is that, generally, matches are played in 21 points sets, and even if all short pips without sponge are authorised for the moment, people generally use the less spiny rubbers, like Dr Evil, BTY Orthodox, Reisman, Andro Classic… With our association, "Hardbat France", we have the project to propose to the clubs, who want to organize hardbat events, 5 different "tournament classes", going from the "US rules events" to the "everything is authorised" (well, not the sponge or long pips rubbers of course, but hard rubber, cork, sandpaper and even no covering at all :) ), and even "everyone plays with the same model of bat". We'll see what people prefer.
In August 2008, when we created our French hardbat ranking, we were 300 players ranked, compiling the results of several tournaments I kept from 2004. In the next one, we'll be more than 700, and we hope to reach 1000 in August 2010.

In Belgium, it's the same as in France for the moment, and there will be for the first time a hardbat serie in an international table tennis tournament, in Ostend on next August 14.

So, considering all of that, I don't think that one of our countries holds the absolute truth, but maybe it would be time to start a general reflexion about the future of hardbat, instead of creating our own rules, everyone on its side.

(I hope that my English is clear enough for everybody ;) ).



Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:53 am

francisdef54
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Message #8190 of 8703 |
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I have watched in silence as the posts on this site go endlessly over technological and other extraneous issues which the posters seem to believe have some...
martyreisman
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Jul 11, 2009
6:05 am

... It's not only a matter of equipment Marty, even if I set up a tournament with ONLY Leyland the game will not be like that in the TRUE Classic Era. You know...
Giorno
mrday81
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Jul 11, 2009
7:42 am

Grand observations, sir. Many thanks for sharing them all. Meanwhile... and I think you might find this quite interesting... I'm in receipt of a number of...
Larry Bone
bonemanrides
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Jul 11, 2009
12:22 pm

I agree witn Marty's observations and analysis of the hardbat dilemma. It will be impossible to recreate classic hardbat table tennis unless a new rubber with...
wallyswoods
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Jul 11, 2009
5:03 pm

Hi Marty, Long time no speak. Thank you for your post. You defined the problem eloquently. I will ask you here and now to propose a solution to the enigma....
H Bbb
spam.bad50
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Jul 12, 2009
1:56 am

Let's be realistic: classic table tennis, like it was played in the "Golden Era", is now dead and buried, and even if the ITTF had immediately banned the first...
Francis LEIBENGUTH
francisdef54
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Jul 12, 2009
3:54 am

... to ... not) ... there ... 300 ... from ... general ... now...
vikiep
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Jul 12, 2009
5:55 am

All history is distorted. Heck, we can't even keep the recent past straight. A case in point is Marty's characterization of my recent experiments with linen...
Jay Turberville
wturber
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Jul 12, 2009
7:47 am

Has anyone taken a look at sandpaper? Never played with the stuff myself, but I can't imagine one could load up too much spin with it. Dan...
Dan Bullard-Sisken
dan_20901
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Jul 14, 2009
2:41 am

... It was banned from play a while back. I've heard that some would like to see it "legalized". ... I have. You'd be surprised.... you can impart spin with...
Larry Bone
bonemanrides
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Jul 14, 2009
9:43 am

I don't know if any good sandpaper tt bats are currently being manufactured. A friend bought one on ebay that is offered there often, called a "Thunder". It...
wallyswoods
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Jul 14, 2009
8:34 pm

Go back and search this board for the term "liha". There is a big interest in sandpaper. Here is a video of a sandpaper championship in the Philippines: ...
Reverend Gordon
reverend_gordon
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Jul 14, 2009
2:44 pm

And here's another one with Marty Reisman playing against Al Papp : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcxKsmRTwcA <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcxKsmRTwcA> ...
Francis LEIBENGUTH
francisdef54
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Jul 14, 2009
3:10 pm

gentlemen, liha is played with 38 mm balls ! and everything will become normal you use big balls like 40 mm and it breaks easily dont mixed liha with...
kusangloob
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Jul 14, 2009
4:21 pm

Peter, The sandpaper clip with Reisman and Papp WAS played with 38mm balls!! Scott...
Reverend Gordon
reverend_gordon
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Jul 14, 2009
5:22 pm

I know scot! i did figured that out, reisman youtube.the speed it was gainning, i can see it. but i was refering to some peole here who says , the liha racket...
kusangloob
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Jul 15, 2009
3:07 am

... I just uploaded a PDF file of a 1902 patent, 703,519, on the application of granular coatings for a table tennis racket. The object being to improve on...
Jay Turberville
wturber
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Jul 14, 2009
5:12 pm

Wallywood says : Jones Baldanado played with several of us, and coached us on the liha rules...easy serve, easy return...and the 5 point playoff if the score...
kusangloob
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Jul 17, 2009
9:58 am

Dario came to the Sacramento club last week! But I didn't get to talk to him. If he stays in Sacramento I will definitely approach him about liha!...
Reverend Gordon
reverend_gordon
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Jul 17, 2009
2:12 pm

scot, tell dario i told you about him ------- ahahah im also looking for his email address you didnt approach him becasue perhaps - you dont know ! and...
kusangloob
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Jul 18, 2009
1:46 pm

Pete,   I apologize for being out of circulation as far as posting but I am now using Dr Evil  on my liha blade and playing semi regularly as schedule...
Andy Abad Jr.
shaq95138
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Jul 19, 2009
7:40 am

... = no porblem really mr. abad. glad you are okay as far as posting but I am now using Dr Evil  on my liha blade and playing semi regularly as schedule...
kusangloob
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Jul 20, 2009
4:29 am

... Hi Marty, This is a post, written as a response to an eloquent post mourning the demise of the classic game both with respect to table tennis and tennis,...
bjgmann615
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Jul 24, 2009
4:33 pm
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