icic.. wat dojo do u go to for hapkido/aikido? im looking for sat/sun
afternoon classes.. so far no luck..
--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "stevewbright"
<stevewbright@...> wrote:
>
> I practice for only 3 hours a week as our instructor teaches only
> Friday and Sunday.  However, I do practice Aikido for another 6
hours
> a week (M,W,F,Sat) at the same Dojang/Dojo.
>
> THis help?
>
> --- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Nickie" <cuteynerd@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone, im interested to learn hapkido. but little is said of
> the
> > schedules.. can anyone enlighten me?
> >
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "william toh" <gracent@...>
To: "Dennis Chua" <hbchua@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: An idea for controlled free sparring


> Excellent food for thought. An addition to points on getting use to losing
> without mental baggage and finding out about oneself, is that the person
> hopefully do not label himself as a not/never good enough and stop there.
>
> Breaking boards today was excellent. Besides being about strength and
> technique, it is also literally about 'breaking barrier', in this case the
> invisible mental barrier.
>
> Best Regards,
> William
>
>
> on 8/26/06 2:49 PM, Dennis Chua at hbchua@... wrote:
>
>> This is called prearranged sparring.
>> Hanmudo practice that too.But the idea of actual sparring is to spar
>> until
>> one no longer thinks of winning/losing.ie to remove the ego.
>> Also get use to losing without mental baggage so that one gets up and
>> improve further rather than sulk.Also this form of sparring acts as a
>> filter
>> of rhuman character to find out about oneself.
>> So both types useful.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "william toh" <gracent@...>
>> To: "Dennis Chua" <hbchua@...>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 11:21 AM
>> Subject: An idea for controlled free sparring
>>
>>
>>> Hi Dr Chua,
>>>
>>> Thought of an idea for free sparring.
>>>
>>> People naturally are defensive, want to win, and afraid to lose,
>>> especially
>>> in front of others. This becomes a limitation to learning.
>>>
>>> How about removing the 'losing-winning' factor while promote close to
>>> actual
>>> technique-based sparring:
>>>
>>> Individual A throws an attack (can be any kind of hand/leg strike but
>>> only
>>> one strike). Individual B executes block and counter attack/locks/take
>>> down,
>>> etc. (can be any techniques learnt).
>>>
>>> This cycle is then reversed with Individual B attacking and Individual A
>>> defend/counter attack.
>>>
>>> This allows testing/usage of techniques in a close-to-actual situation
>>> for
>>> application, internalisation and confidence building.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> William
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

For the month of Sept 2006, Master Mark Stewart - Director and Chief
Instructor of International Jeet Kune Do will be conducting the
following short courses:

Course code: JKD1 - Jeet Kune Do Strategy & Tactics For Combative
Sports - Muay Thai, San Da & MMA
Topics: Controling the Center, Fighting from the Fence. Stealing the
Corner, Broken Rythym
Footwork, Wedge Tactics, Interception and more. Martial arts
enthusiasts currently practicing Muay Thai, MMA or San Da will learn
how Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do can give you the extra competitive edge.

Course code: RMB1 - Reality Based Martial Arts for Civilian, Law
Enforcement and Military
Topics: Close Quarter Hand to Hand Combat,.No - Nonsense Self
Defense. Aggresive Defense, Flanking Strategy, Take Downs to Control
& Restraint. Defense against Empty Hand, Knife and Stick.


Course Code: SKD2   Tactical Baton - Kali/Escrima/Arnis for Civilian,
Law Enforcement and Military
Topics: Double Stick Coordination Drills, Single Stick Attack &
Defense, Disarms, Weapon Retention, Percussive Limb strikes, Wedge
Tactics, Zoning and More.

As a internationally renowned expert in Jeet Kune Do and the
Philippine martial art - Kali, Master Mark Stewart has taught many
law enforcement and military personnel throughout the years,
including Police, FBI agents and Navy Seal team members.

Duration  for each course :
5 hours over 4 sessions. Once
weekly


Time
Monday 7pm to 8.15pm (JKD1)
Wednesday 9pm to 10.15pm (RMB1)
Saturday 4pm to 5.15pm (SKD2)

Commencement Date:
4 Sept 2006(JKD1) Mon
6 Sept 2006(RMB1) Wed
9 Sept 2006 (SKD2)  Sat

Venue:
SAFRA Toa Payoh(JKD1 & RMB1)
TRACOM;Former Police Academy at Thomson Road (SKD2)
Fee: S$ 100 per course ( 20% discount for members of
www.MAMaster.com*, IJKD and Combat Academy)
Certificate of participation will be issued upon completion of the
course

Those who wish to register for the above courses can contact Sifu
Mark Stewart at HP: 93409620. As seats are limited (max class
size:15), please book early. Registration is confirmed upon full
payment. For more information on Jeet Kune Do and Kali, go to
www.ijkd.com

About Master Mark Stewart:
Since 1977 Mark Stewart has taught martial arts, self defense, sports
and fitness at many Universities and Fitness Centers including UCLA,
USC, and University of Hawaii at Manoa as well as Clark Hatch Fitness
Centers, Powerhouse Gyms and Shinjuku Sports Center in Tokyo, Japan.
Mark Stewart was also an Adjunct Professor of Physical Education, at
Mt. San Antonio College in Walnut, California from 1999-2001, where
he taught martial arts and self defense.

Mark Stewart has also taught many individual law enforcement and
military personnel throughout the years, including Police, FBI agents
and Navy Seal team members. Mark Stewart was the co-founder and head
trainer of the Los Angeles Chinatown Safety Patrol, founded in 1994.
Mark Stewart is currently the Training Manager of Defensive Tactics
and Un-armed Combat for X-Secure here in Singapore. Including clients
such as SATS / Singapore Airlines Training Services, NUS / National
University Singapore and ICA / Immigration Checkpoints Authority.

Mark Stewart began his martial arts training in the Chinese/Okinawa
style of Karate known as Uechi Ryu. At the age of 18 he was awarded
his 1st degree Black Belt and in 1989 became the youngest 5th degree
Black Belt in the World, of the Okinawa Karate Do Association,
Futenma, Okinawa, Japan. Since 1997 Mark Stewart has been a private
student of Ted Wong in Bruce Lee's martial art Jeet Kune Do.

Mark Stewart is also an instructor of Philippine Weaponry and has
taught throughout the world in countries such as Japan, France,
Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Canada and the USA. Mark Stewart is a
former Top Ten Rated Karate Champion and 1992 Grand Champion in the
Great Lakes Region of the USA as well as a "Full Contact"
International Kickboxing Competitor.

Mark Stewart is a published author who has been featured in and on
the cover of many magazines including Inside Karate, Inside Kung Fu,
Masters and styles, Black Belt, Karate Illustrated, Fighter Magazine
of Sweden, Martial Arts Illustrated of Great Britain, and Siam Combat
of Thailand. Mark Stewart has also been featured in other
publications such as the Los Angeles Times, Tokyo Classified, Farang,
A Day, The Nation and BK Metro. Mark Stewart has also been featured
in many instructional videos including Unique, Black Belt and Moon
River Productions. In 1994 Mark Stewart was featured on the Malaysian
T.V. Series "Maha Guru" and became the first martial artist to
demonstrate the art of Kali on Malaysian television. In 2002 Mark
Stewart was featured on the Thai T.V. Series "Martial Arts" on UBC
Super Sports and became the first martial artist to demonstrate Jeet
Kune Do on Thai television. In 2003 Mark Stewart was featured by
Reuters New Agency which aired throughout the world, including CNN
World Report CNA and ITV. In 2003 Mark Stewart and his group
performed for the APEC Summit in Bangkok, Thailand.

--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, bactrimsg <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
> Join a group of martial arts enthusiasts in their regular hapkido
> joint locks training session. Current members include 6 hapkido
> blackbelts from various hapkido styles.
>
> For more information, email:mamaster@...
>


Or go to www.mamaster.com

Join a group of martial arts enthusiasts in their regular hapkido
joint locks training session. Current members include 6 hapkido
blackbelts from various hapkido styles.

For more information, email:mamaster@...

I practice for only 3 hours a week as our instructor teaches only
Friday and Sunday.  However, I do practice Aikido for another 6 hours
a week (M,W,F,Sat) at the same Dojang/Dojo.

THis help?

--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Nickie" <cuteynerd@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone, im interested to learn hapkido. but little is said of
the
> schedules.. can anyone enlighten me?
>

Hi everyone, im interested to learn hapkido. but little is said of the
schedules.. can anyone enlighten me?

Hi Everyone,
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Dear Fellow Martial Arts Enthusiasts,

Master Mark Stewart - Director and Chief Instructor of International
Jeet Kune Do will be conducting a 8 sessions course on Knife Defense
& Tactics. All skill levels welcome. As a internationally renowned
expert in Jeet Kune Do and the Philippine martial art - Kali, Master
Mark Stewart has taught many law enforcement and military personnel
throughout the years, including Police, FBI agents and Navy Seal team
members.

COURSE   : KNIFE DEFENSE & TACTICS
Participants will learn both fundamentals and advanced tactics of
knife disarming. Basic knife fighting combat techniques will also be
covered. Martial arts enthusiasts from all styles & skill level are
welcome.

Duration  : 12 hours over 8 sessions. Once
weekly

Time: Wed. 8.30pm to 10.00pm
Commencement Date: 5 July 2006
Venue: SAFRA Toa Payoh
Fee: S$ 250

CURRICULUM:
Blade v. Blade
Blade v. Empty Hand
Thrusting & Slashing
Major & Minor Targets
Extended & Inverted Grip
Sumbrada Drill (flow pattern)
Fixed Angle Deflections (shielding)
Gunting (limb destructions)
Meet & Pass (sticky hands/knife)
Basic Disarms

Certificate of participation will be issued upon completion of the
course

Those who wish to register for the course can contact Sifu Mark
Stewart at HP: 93409620 or                              email:
thai_jkd @ hotmail.com. As seats are limited (max class size:12),
please book early. Registration is confirmed upon full payment.
Priority will be given to existing members of International Jeet Kune
Do. For more information on Jeet Kune Do and Kali, go to www.ijkd.com


About Master Mark Stewart:
Since 1977 Mark Stewart has taught martial arts, self defense, sports
and fitness at many Universities and Fitness Centers including UCLA,
USC, and University of Hawaii at Manoa as well as Clark Hatch Fitness
Centers, Powerhouse Gyms and Shinjuku Sports Center in Tokyo, Japan.
Mark Stewart was also an Adjunct Professor of Physical Education, at
Mt. San Antonio College in Walnut, California from 1999-2001, where
he taught martial arts and self defense.

Mark Stewart has also taught many individual law enforcement and
military personnel throughout the years, including Police, FBI agents
and Navy Seal team members. Mark Stewart was the co-founder and head
trainer of the Los Angeles Chinatown Safety Patrol, founded in 1994.
Mark Stewart is currently the Training Manager of Defensive Tactics
and Un-armed Combat for X-Secure here in Singapore. Including clients
such as SATS / Singapore Airlines Training Services, NUS / National
University Singapore and ICA / Immigration Checkpoints Authority.

Mark Stewart began his martial arts training in the Chinese/Okinawa
style of Karate known as Uechi Ryu. At the age of 18 he was awarded
his 1st degree Black Belt and in 1989 became the youngest 5th degree
Black Belt in the World, of the Okinawa Karate Do Association,
Futenma, Okinawa, Japan. Since 1997 Mark Stewart has been a private
student of Ted Wong in Bruce Lee's martial art Jeet Kune Do.

Mark Stewart is also an instructor of Philippine Weaponry and has
taught throughout the world in countries such as Japan, France,
Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Canada and the USA. Mark Stewart is a
former Top Ten Rated Karate Champion and 1992 Grand Champion in the
Great Lakes Region of the USA as well as a "Full Contact"
International Kickboxing Competitor.

Mark Stewart is a published author who has been featured in and on
the cover of many magazines including Inside Karate, Inside Kung Fu,
Masters and styles, Black Belt, Karate Illustrated, Fighter Magazine
of Sweden, Martial Arts Illustrated of Great Britain, and Siam Combat
of Thailand. Mark Stewart has also been featured in other
publications such as the Los Angeles Times, Tokyo Classified, Farang,
A Day, The Nation and BK Metro. Mark Stewart has also been featured
in many instructional videos including Unique, Black Belt and Moon
River Productions. In 1994 Mark Stewart was featured on the Malaysian
T.V. Series "Maha Guru" and became the first martial artist to
demonstrate the art of Kali on Malaysian television. In 2002 Mark
Stewart was featured on the Thai T.V. Series "Martial Arts" on UBC
Super Sports and became the first martial artist to demonstrate Jeet
Kune Do on Thai television. In 2003 Mark Stewart was featured by
Reuters New Agency which aired throughout the world, including CNN
World Report CNA and ITV. In 2003 Mark Stewart and his group
performed for the APEC Summit in Bangkok, Thailand.

----- Original Message -----
From: "april" <amamagirl@...>
To: <HanMuDo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: [HanMuDo] ] Re: Ultimate Martial Art? The true nature of mixed
martial arts


> I agree with you Guillaume, I also believe that the freestyle
> sparring should begin as soon as a student begins to progess. Not
> only does it allow someone to discover their own style, strengths
> and weaknesses, for youth it makes it interesting for them, besides
> being redundant in classes. Youth naturally love to tussle around, I
> believe it allows for mental growth and to apply what they have
> learned practically.
>
> Also free sparring and being able to apply what you have learned
> empowers you and gives the confidence that people are looking for in
> Martial Arts.
>
> I believe that if an instructor in Martial Arts creates a balance
> between free sparring and instruction of techniques, then he will
> have success in training his students giving them the opportunity to
> develope their techniques in real time and find what works best for
> them.
>
> April and Eric
>
> --- In HanMuDo@yahoogroups.com, Guillaume Williams
> <revhardheaded@...> wrote:
>>
>> I would not think of HMD as a MMA although it is a sum
>> of what Dr. Kimm knows and transmits to us.  It
>> certainly is not just sport, not just kicking and
>> punching with grappling added in.  There does need to
>> be some freestyle sparring so people can learning
>> timing and what might not work for them when an
>> opponent resist but this is up to the teacher how and
>> when this occurs in class and certainly it does happen
>> in all schools I would hope.
>>
>> If anyone ever watched Erle Montaigue, one would never
>> think that TaiChi is just for retiring masters trying
>> to keep healthy.
>>
>> While some Traditional MA schools may seem packaged to
>> pass from one generation to the next if they are truly
>> traditional I cannot see how good fighters would not
>> be produced there.  There are some or rather plenty of
>> McDonald style schools out there which simply pass on
>> knowledge without true skill, mass marketing
>> blackbelts, but I think even a good ma could still be
>> produced there if the individual applie themselves.
>>
>> At the end of the day though the saying is still true,
>> there are no superior ma just superior martial artist.
>>
>> Guillaume
>>
>> --- Dennis Chua <hbchua@...> wrote:
>>
>> > Here's an intersting article from an MMA pratitioner
>> >  in reply to  the article Hal submitted.(below)
>> > Any feedback for discussion.?
>> >
>> > here's one -a personal opinion on looking from a
>> > different perspective.
>> >
>> > I think the reason why there are so many
>> > disagreements between traditional and MMA is the
>> > different emphasis that MMA and traditional places.
>> > Traditional martial arts  focus a specific skill eg.
>> > mainly kicking and punching with a few take down and
>> > few grappling techs  or grappling ,throwing  with a
>> > few kicks and strikes.Their focus if base on
>> > traditional Asian martial art background  is
>> > personal character buildng as  well as loyalty to
>> > the group or clan (Budo) and respect for
>> > teachers,using martial art as a tool.Their emphasis
>> > is martial art philosophy in daily living ,not so
>> > much as winning matches. They have a proven system
>> > in sense of good organization and easy to transmit
>> > this "package' for repeated generations.
>> > Since every body can only commit a certain amount of
>> > time  for training, it is quite a challenge to learn
>> > and be good at everything. MMA tries to be good at
>> > everything, but even then ,certain players will
>> > place empasis on techniques they like.The core is
>> > grappling.
>> > MMA interest startted from BJJ.If you look up BJJ
>> > history, it arise because of questioning the
>> > rationale of certain traditional pratice and techs
>> > for practicality.Hence emphasis is to win to prove
>> > this point.Of course they have philosophies attached
>> > to it, but it is not so deep rooted as compared to
>> > asian traditional martal art philosophy with its
>> > long history on living in a society. Traditional
>> > asian martial art arise from political situation of
>> > their time. ( This is my personal opinion.I believe
>> > MMA practitioners will argue on this).
>> >
>> > The challenge for MMA's future is this.Can they
>> > transmit to later generations successfully?
>> > Traditional martial arts with a good deep rooted
>> > philosophy and organisational skills have proven to
>> > transmit to several generations down.And majority of
>> > people prefer philosophy in living ,and martial art
>> > as an added insurance if need arises, rather than
>> > being in the ring. Majority just need certain skill
>> > to defend fast and get out fast in a situation.
>> > They cannot afford to be full time gladiators. They
>> > have to work.
>> >
>> >  A good example is Taekwondo.MMA practitioners can
>> > argue it has many weaknesses, but why is it the
>> > world's most popular martial art today? Why is the
>> > world's army still use TKD as the core martial art?
>> > Another is Aikido. It is still using traditional
>> > fighting techs,that one can argue in today's context
>> > is not so practical.But why is it so popular among
>> > the elite in society?
>> > Taichi is known as "utimate boxing" . "Ultimate" not
>> > to win matches .but to win the match of
>> > life.-longevity. Martial art grandmasters of hard
>> > styles still end up learning some form of taichi
>> > later in their life.
>> > The challenge for MMA to be able to pass down to
>> > many generation is this.Does it have a deep sense of
>> > philosophy to attract the masses? Does it have a
>> > uniformity to easily transmit to the masses.It is
>> > difficult,because it is "mixed".Different
>> > instructors emphasise differently, and are trained
>> > differently.
>> >
>> > So the question is akin to what you want in life.Do
>> > you want to train an art for a certain period of
>> > your life or thoughout your life .- eg  a fast
>> > sports car , a family saloon car or an all terrain
>> > SUV (Sports utility Vehicle).  It's good to train
>> > MMA as an adjunct to your core art .But you need to
>> > faithfully stick to your core art to give you
>> > direction in your life. If  not,after learning "all
>> > the secrets of the world" you become empty and
>> > frustrated.
>> > As for me,the ultimate martial art is  the one that
>> > lets me win the  "Match of life".
>> > "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole
>> > world but loses his own soul"-a Bible quote.
>> >
>> >  Dennis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Kaiyi
>> > To: hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com
>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:49 PM
>> > Subject: [Hapkido Flying Eagle] Re: Ultimate Martial
>> > Art? The true nature of mixed martial arts
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > SELF DEFENSE AND MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>> >
>> > http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mma
>> >
>> > the criticism of Mixed Martial Arts in the article
>> > is way off the mark.
>> >
>> > If you truly want to learn self-defense, learn from
>> > police officers &
>> > soldiers. Learn the psychology of criminals. Because
>> > a skilled
>> > criminal will NOT give you the chance to defend
>> > yourself. He 'll walk
>> > up to you in the dark and stab in the back. Self
>> > defense is about
>> > knowing how to identify bad situations (drunk gang
>> > members, dark
>> > alleys) and avoid them or worse come to worse you
>> > talk your way out.
>> >
>> > No mixed martial artist would ever claim to be able
>> > to fight 10 men,
>> > nor does any sensei who claims to be able to
>> > demonstrate so. If
>> > someone has a knife, most genuine self defense
>> > experts will recommend
>> > you run or pick up a chair to batter your opponent.
>> >
>> > The argument for learning Mixed Martials Arts as an
>> > aid to
>> > self-defense is this: If you are confronted and
>> > assualted by a clumsy
>> > thug or drunk who is unarmed, then what you learn on
>> > the mat & in the
>> > ring is highly applicable because you fight against
>> > a parter who is
>> > 100% uncooperative and that creates an experience as
>> > close as possible
>> > to a real fight in which your assailant will also be
>> > 100%
>> > uncooperative. In many streets fights 1 or more
>> > parties often fall to
>> > the ground. Much of mixed martial arts involves
>> > escaping pins by
>> > opponents WHO CAN STRIKE YOU FROM THE TOP WITH
>> > ELBOWS, KNEES AND FISTS!
>> >
>> > This is in contrast to many traditional arts where u
>> > learn patterns
>> > which have no resemblance to most human reactions in
>> > a fight.
>> >
>> > Randori is what gives you some real fighting
>> > ability. It gives you the
>> > timing you will need in a real fight. Will you ever
>> > use it? Prob
>> > never. Will it work? maybe not. which brings us a
>> > point of agreement.
>> >
>> > ~Select a martial art that brings you joy. Mixed
>> > martial arts should
>> > not be pursued simply because you view it as the
>> > means to being a
>> > great fighter. For many mixed martial artistes,
>> > mixed martial arts is
>> > a healthy pursuit for training the mind and body, a
>> > challenge. The
>> > same way one challenges oneself by playing chess. I
>> > love playing
>> > chess. And who knows one day i may give up mma to
>> > play chess? Unlikely
>> > but possible!
>> >
>> > Having said that, proof that mixed martial arts is
>> > generally healthy
>> > can be found in Pride & UFC. Although there are a
>> > few bad apples like
>> > Ricardo Arona and Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie who
>> > are rude towards
>> > opponents, many opponents actually train together at
>> > one pt or another
>> > - helping each other improve! And look what happens
>> > at the end of many
>> > fights: the fighters embrace without malice and chi
>> > chat. And they say
>> > " lets train together sometime"
>> >
>> > Can you imagine Rudd Van Nisterooy telling that to
>> > Patrick Viera?
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
>> >
>> > THE TRUE NATURE OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>> >
>> > Donny who? For me the author of this article should
>> > make up his mind;
>> > 1st he attempts to discredit wrestling (which is a
>> > large part of mixed
>> > martial arts) and then proceeds to say the
>> > Traditionalists can't
>> >
>> === message truncated ===
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To have a friend subscribe, have then send an
> email to HanMuDo-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guillaume Williams" <revhardheaded@...>
To: <HanMuDo@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [HanMuDo] ] Re: Ultimate Martial Art? The true nature of mixed
martial arts


>I would not think of HMD as a MMA although it is a sum
> of what Dr. Kimm knows and transmits to us.  It
> certainly is not just sport, not just kicking and
> punching with grappling added in.  There does need to
> be some freestyle sparring so people can learning
> timing and what might not work for them when an
> opponent resist but this is up to the teacher how and
> when this occurs in class and certainly it does happen
> in all schools I would hope.
>
> If anyone ever watched Erle Montaigue, one would never
> think that TaiChi is just for retiring masters trying
> to keep healthy.
>
> While some Traditional MA schools may seem packaged to
> pass from one generation to the next if they are truly
> traditional I cannot see how good fighters would not
> be produced there.  There are some or rather plenty of
> McDonald style schools out there which simply pass on
> knowledge without true skill, mass marketing
> blackbelts, but I think even a good ma could still be
> produced there if the individual applie themselves.
>
> At the end of the day though the saying is still true,
> there are no superior ma just superior martial artist.
>
> Guillaume
>
> --- Dennis Chua <hbchua@...> wrote:
>
>> Here's an intersting article from an MMA pratitioner
>>  in reply to  the article Hal submitted.(below)
>> Any feedback for discussion.?
>>
>> here's one -a personal opinion on looking from a
>> different perspective.
>>
>> I think the reason why there are so many
>> disagreements between traditional and MMA is the
>> different emphasis that MMA and traditional places.
>> Traditional martial arts  focus a specific skill eg.
>> mainly kicking and punching with a few take down and
>> few grappling techs  or grappling ,throwing  with a
>> few kicks and strikes.Their focus if base on
>> traditional Asian martial art background  is
>> personal character buildng as  well as loyalty to
>> the group or clan (Budo) and respect for
>> teachers,using martial art as a tool.Their emphasis
>> is martial art philosophy in daily living ,not so
>> much as winning matches. They have a proven system
>> in sense of good organization and easy to transmit
>> this "package' for repeated generations.
>> Since every body can only commit a certain amount of
>> time  for training, it is quite a challenge to learn
>> and be good at everything. MMA tries to be good at
>> everything, but even then ,certain players will
>> place empasis on techniques they like.The core is
>> grappling.
>> MMA interest startted from BJJ.If you look up BJJ
>> history, it arise because of questioning the
>> rationale of certain traditional pratice and techs
>> for practicality.Hence emphasis is to win to prove
>> this point.Of course they have philosophies attached
>> to it, but it is not so deep rooted as compared to
>> asian traditional martal art philosophy with its
>> long history on living in a society. Traditional
>> asian martial art arise from political situation of
>> their time. ( This is my personal opinion.I believe
>> MMA practitioners will argue on this).
>>
>> The challenge for MMA's future is this.Can they
>> transmit to later generations successfully?
>> Traditional martial arts with a good deep rooted
>> philosophy and organisational skills have proven to
>> transmit to several generations down.And majority of
>> people prefer philosophy in living ,and martial art
>> as an added insurance if need arises, rather than
>> being in the ring. Majority just need certain skill
>> to defend fast and get out fast in a situation.
>> They cannot afford to be full time gladiators. They
>> have to work.
>>
>>  A good example is Taekwondo.MMA practitioners can
>> argue it has many weaknesses, but why is it the
>> world's most popular martial art today? Why is the
>> world's army still use TKD as the core martial art?
>> Another is Aikido. It is still using traditional
>> fighting techs,that one can argue in today's context
>> is not so practical.But why is it so popular among
>> the elite in society?
>> Taichi is known as "utimate boxing" . "Ultimate" not
>> to win matches .but to win the match of
>> life.-longevity. Martial art grandmasters of hard
>> styles still end up learning some form of taichi
>> later in their life.
>> The challenge for MMA to be able to pass down to
>> many generation is this.Does it have a deep sense of
>> philosophy to attract the masses? Does it have a
>> uniformity to easily transmit to the masses.It is
>> difficult,because it is "mixed".Different
>> instructors emphasise differently, and are trained
>> differently.
>>
>> So the question is akin to what you want in life.Do
>> you want to train an art for a certain period of
>> your life or thoughout your life .- eg  a fast
>> sports car , a family saloon car or an all terrain
>> SUV (Sports utility Vehicle).  It's good to train
>> MMA as an adjunct to your core art .But you need to
>> faithfully stick to your core art to give you
>> direction in your life. If  not,after learning "all
>> the secrets of the world" you become empty and
>> frustrated.
>> As for me,the ultimate martial art is  the one that
>> lets me win the  "Match of life".
>> "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole
>> world but loses his own soul"-a Bible quote.
>>
>>  Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Kaiyi
>> To: hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:49 PM
>> Subject: [Hapkido Flying Eagle] Re: Ultimate Martial
>> Art? The true nature of mixed martial arts
>>
>>
>>
>> SELF DEFENSE AND MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>>
>> http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mma
>>
>> the criticism of Mixed Martial Arts in the article
>> is way off the mark.
>>
>> If you truly want to learn self-defense, learn from
>> police officers &
>> soldiers. Learn the psychology of criminals. Because
>> a skilled
>> criminal will NOT give you the chance to defend
>> yourself. He 'll walk
>> up to you in the dark and stab in the back. Self
>> defense is about
>> knowing how to identify bad situations (drunk gang
>> members, dark
>> alleys) and avoid them or worse come to worse you
>> talk your way out.
>>
>> No mixed martial artist would ever claim to be able
>> to fight 10 men,
>> nor does any sensei who claims to be able to
>> demonstrate so. If
>> someone has a knife, most genuine self defense
>> experts will recommend
>> you run or pick up a chair to batter your opponent.
>>
>> The argument for learning Mixed Martials Arts as an
>> aid to
>> self-defense is this: If you are confronted and
>> assualted by a clumsy
>> thug or drunk who is unarmed, then what you learn on
>> the mat & in the
>> ring is highly applicable because you fight against
>> a parter who is
>> 100% uncooperative and that creates an experience as
>> close as possible
>> to a real fight in which your assailant will also be
>> 100%
>> uncooperative. In many streets fights 1 or more
>> parties often fall to
>> the ground. Much of mixed martial arts involves
>> escaping pins by
>> opponents WHO CAN STRIKE YOU FROM THE TOP WITH
>> ELBOWS, KNEES AND FISTS!
>>
>> This is in contrast to many traditional arts where u
>> learn patterns
>> which have no resemblance to most human reactions in
>> a fight.
>>
>> Randori is what gives you some real fighting
>> ability. It gives you the
>> timing you will need in a real fight. Will you ever
>> use it? Prob
>> never. Will it work? maybe not. which brings us a
>> point of agreement.
>>
>> ~Select a martial art that brings you joy. Mixed
>> martial arts should
>> not be pursued simply because you view it as the
>> means to being a
>> great fighter. For many mixed martial artistes,
>> mixed martial arts is
>> a healthy pursuit for training the mind and body, a
>> challenge. The
>> same way one challenges oneself by playing chess. I
>> love playing
>> chess. And who knows one day i may give up mma to
>> play chess? Unlikely
>> but possible!
>>
>> Having said that, proof that mixed martial arts is
>> generally healthy
>> can be found in Pride & UFC. Although there are a
>> few bad apples like
>> Ricardo Arona and Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie who
>> are rude towards
>> opponents, many opponents actually train together at
>> one pt or another
>> - helping each other improve! And look what happens
>> at the end of many
>> fights: the fighters embrace without malice and chi
>> chat. And they say
>> " lets train together sometime"
>>
>> Can you imagine Rudd Van Nisterooy telling that to
>> Patrick Viera?
>>
>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> THE TRUE NATURE OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>>
>> Donny who? For me the author of this article should
>> make up his mind;
>> 1st he attempts to discredit wrestling (which is a
>> large part of mixed
>> martial arts) and then proceeds to say the
>> Traditionalists can't
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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Here's an intersting article from an MMA pratitioner  in reply to  the article Hal submitted.(below)
Any feedback for discussion.?

here's one -a personal opinion on looking from a different perspective.

I think the reason why there are so many disagreements between traditional and MMA is the different emphasis that MMA and traditional places.
Traditional martial arts  focus a specific skill eg. mainly kicking and punching with a few take down and few grappling techs  or grappling ,throwing  with a few kicks and strikes.Their focus if base on traditional Asian martial art background  is personal character buildng as  well as loyalty to the group or clan (Budo) and respect for teachers,using martial art as a tool.Their emphasis is martial art philosophy in daily living ,not so much as winning matches. They have a proven system in sense of good organization and easy to transmit this "package' for repeated generations.
Since every body can only commit a certain amount of time  for training, it is quite a challenge to learn and be good at everything. MMA tries to be good at everything, but even then ,certain players will place empasis on techniques they like.The core is grappling.
MMA interest startted from BJJ.If you look up BJJ history, it arise because of questioning the rationale of certain traditional pratice and techs for practicality.Hence emphasis is to win to prove this point.Of course they have philosophies attached to it, but it is not so deep rooted as compared to asian traditional martal art philosophy with its long history on living in a society. Traditional asian martial art arise from political situation of their time. ( This is my personal opinion.I believe MMA practitioners will argue on this).

The challenge for MMA's future is this.Can they transmit to later generations successfully? Traditional martial arts with a good deep rooted philosophy and organisational skills have proven to transmit to several generations down.And majority of people prefer philosophy in living ,and martial art as an added insurance if need arises, rather than being in the ring. Majority just need certain skill to defend fast and get out fast in a situation.
They cannot afford to be full time gladiators. They have to work.

A good example is Taekwondo.MMA practitioners can argue it has many weaknesses, but why is it the world's most popular martial art today? Why is the world's army still use TKD as the core martial art?
Another is Aikido. It is still using traditional fighting techs,that one can argue in today's context is not so practical.But why is it so popular among the elite in society?
Taichi is known as "utimate boxing" . "Ultimate" not to win matches .but to win the match of life.-longevity. Martial art grandmasters of hard styles still end up learning some form of taichi later in their life.
The challenge for MMA to be able to pass down to many generation is this.Does it have a deep sense of philosophy to attract the masses? Does it have a uniformity to easily transmit to the masses.It is difficult,because it is "mixed".Different instructors emphasise differently, and are trained differently.

So the question is akin to what you want in life.Do you want to train an art for a certain period of your life or thoughout your life .- eg  a fast sports car , a family saloon car or an all terrain SUV (Sports utility Vehicle).  It's good to train MMA as an adjunct to your core art .But you need to faithfully stick to your core art to give you direction in your life. If  not,after learning "all the secrets of the world" you become empty and frustrated.
As for me,the ultimate martial art is  the one that lets me win the  "Match of life".
"What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul"-a Bible quote.

Dennis



----- Original Message -----
From: Kaiyi <mailto:ech0222@...>  
To: hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:49 PM
Subject: [Hapkido Flying Eagle] Re: Ultimate Martial Art? The true nature of mixed martial arts


SELF DEFENSE AND MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mma

the criticism of Mixed Martial Arts in the article is way off the mark.

If you truly want to learn self-defense, learn from police officers &
soldiers. Learn the psychology of criminals. Because a skilled
criminal will NOT give you the chance to defend yourself. He 'll walk
up to you in the dark and stab in the back. Self defense is about
knowing how to identify bad situations (drunk gang members, dark
alleys) and avoid them or worse come to worse you talk your way out.

No mixed martial artist would ever claim to be able to fight 10 men,
nor does any sensei who claims to be able to demonstrate so. If
someone has a knife, most genuine self defense experts will recommend
you run or pick up a chair to batter your opponent.

The argument for learning Mixed Martials Arts as an aid to
self-defense is this: If you are confronted and assualted by a clumsy
thug or drunk who is unarmed, then what you learn on the mat & in the
ring is highly applicable because you fight against a parter who is
100% uncooperative and that creates an experience as close as possible
to a real fight in which your assailant will also be 100%
uncooperative. In many streets fights 1 or more parties often fall to
the ground. Much of mixed martial arts involves escaping pins by
opponents WHO CAN STRIKE YOU FROM THE TOP WITH ELBOWS, KNEES AND FISTS!

This is in contrast to many traditional arts where u learn patterns
which have no resemblance to most human reactions in a fight.

Randori is what gives you some real fighting ability. It gives you the
timing you will need in a real fight. Will you ever use it? Prob
never. Will it work? maybe not. which brings us a point of agreement.

~Select a martial art that brings you joy. Mixed martial arts should
not be pursued simply because you view it as the means to being a
great fighter. For many mixed martial artistes, mixed martial arts is
a healthy pursuit for training the mind and body, a challenge. The
same way one challenges oneself by playing chess. I love playing
chess. And who knows one day i may give up mma to play chess? Unlikely
but possible!

Having said that, proof that mixed martial arts is generally healthy
can be found in Pride & UFC. Although there are a few bad apples like
Ricardo Arona and Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie who are rude towards
opponents, many opponents actually train together at one pt or another
- helping each other improve! And look what happens at the end of many
fights: the fighters embrace without malice and chi chat. And they say
" lets train together sometime"

Can you imagine Rudd Van Nisterooy telling that to Patrick Viera?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

THE TRUE NATURE OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:

Donny who? For me the author of this article should make up his mind;
1st he attempts to discredit wrestling (which is a large part of mixed
martial arts) and then proceeds to say the Traditionalists can't
defeat Sakuraba & Ken Shamrock which is true; traditionalists were
annhilated in Mixed martial arts tourneys and indeed have been
consistently defeated by Muay Thai exponents in boxing matches.

A further clarification on the Nature of MMA; an mma fighter is NOT
AIMING TO CREATE & DEVELOPE AN ULTIMATE ART. Rather an mma fighter
simply aims to cross - train and become as good a fighter as he can.
Many of them emphasize their original art; a Muay thai fighter in an
mma tourney is one with superb boxing skills & with only decent
grappling skills (search "cro cop" on google video).

Mixed martial arts is NOT style in any sense of the word. All mixed
martial artiste will normally know some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
and one or 2 wrestling moves.

Nxt they 'd be equipped with a type of boxing: Take your pick from
Savate/Western boxing/Muay Thai/Full contact Karate with boxing base.
Many of them have NO KICKING SKILLS.

And then may equipped in Sambo(Russian Judo) to yet more Wrestling or
Judo. Indeed some Brazilian jiu-jitsu exponents are very poor with
Judo throws and wrestling takedowns[i'm a prime example :( ].

What all these arts have in common is that they all base training
against a resisting opponent - in other words Randori.

So as you can see MMA is not an art, merely a term for a sport(which
aids self defemse) in which pple from all arts join and fight.

A FINAL NOTE: Don't think MMA vs Traditional martial arts

Traditional arts & mixed martial are not opposed. At Kreation Jiu
Jitsu (at he budo academy) where i train, many of my fellow students
have extensive tradtional backgrounds. They enjoyed traditional
martial arts. I myself tried "Praying Mantis Kung Fu" whilst training
at Kreation.

I repeat, have fun and also be humble. Don't say my art will beat
yours-my father will beat your father kind of nonsense. You won't be
happy saying these things.

Happy training whatever your art is!










--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Chua" <hbchua@...>
wrote:
>
> Interesting article
> DrChua
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: halcopeland@...
> To: HanMuDo@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:14 AM
> Subject: [HanMuDo] Ultimate Martial Art?
>
>
> I ran upon this article and thought I would share it with the list.
>
>  
>
> Thoughts?
>
>  
>
> -Hal
>
>  
>
>  
>
> http://www.aikidojournal.com/?author=9
>
> Assumptions by Toby Threadgill Recently I was introduced to a
gentleman interested in martial artstraining. He was not really aware
of what I teach or of what constitutesNihon Koryu Jujutsu. He just
assumed that because I taught it, that I mustbelieve it to be "the
best". When I told him I did not believe the art Itaught to be "the
best", an uncomfortable silence ensued. I finally brokethis taciturn
moment by explaining that there is actually no such thing as a"best"
martial art. Despite a noble effort to grasp what I was talkingabout,
the gentleman in question eventually regressed, unable to shake
theimpression that if I was not convinced that what I taught was
superior toall other forms of martial arts, that I was somehow
unworthy of teachinghim. I politely encouraged him to look around,
consider what I had said and contact me again if he had any further
questions. A few days later Ireceived an e-mail from this gentleman in
which he explained that he had indeed found someone convinced that
they taught the ultimate style ofmartial arts. It was called "mixed
martial arts" because it embodied only the best of all the styles. I
just smiled to myself as I politely responded, congratulating him on
his fortuitous discovery. An ultimate martial art, huh? Now there's an
oxymoron for you. Every Martial art is ultimately based on
assumptions. In fact any training programformulated to address
conflict is based on assumptions. It's kinda like the old joke about
bringing a knife to a gun fight. No matter how good you are, your
assumptions define your training paradigm. Narrow your assumptions and
you specialize, gaining the opportunity to excel at one task. Broaden
your assumptions and you might be able address many different
situations but at what level of expertise? It's an intriguing dilemma
isn't it? Specialize, and be defeated by someone outside your
strengths. Be a generalist and Some specialist will hand you your head
on a platter. What's a martial artist to do? Years ago my teacher
Yukio Takamura taught a seminar which touched upon This topic. The
seminar subject was a comparison between sport budo and Classical
budo. During the lunch break a young karateka & wrestler, I'll call
Donny, loudly dismissed Takamura Sensei's teachings as antiquated
nonsense. Inresponse to this pronouncement Takamura shook his head and
chuckled while fiddling with his shoes. Donny, rather brash and full
of bravado turned to Takamura Sensei and said, "Now don't get me wrong
old man, your stuff is fun to watch and all but your jujutsu is no
match for my karate and wrestling.Takamura flashed a devilish smile at
Donny and said, "Okay, show me". Donny backed off a bit at this
unexpected challenge and said "Well, I'm not Going to fight you,
you're too old. How about him" pointing at Dave Maynard.Takamura
responded "No, you were talking about my jujutsu, not his. I Want you
to show me." Rather pensively Donny strolled out onto the dojo mat
with Takamura Sensei as a hushed silence overtook the room. At first
Donnyappeared reluctant to do anything but when he noticed that all
eyes were on him he revved up his courage and proceeded to execute a
very nice double leg takedown, climbing up on what at first appeared
to be a rather startledTakamura Sensei. As Donny attempted to continue
his seemingly Successful offense we noticed something flick around
Donny's neck. Suddenly, Donnytried to pull away, his head turning as
red as a ripe tomato. In a fewseconds he fell over wheezing. At that
point we realized that a shoelace was resting tightly around Donny's
neck. Where had it come from? Takamura had secreted the shoelace in
his sleeve and then executed a simple choke with it. As he revived
Donny from his impromptu slumber he explained to thestunned witnesses
that Donny had missed the point of the seminar altogether and made a
dangerous assumption. He assumed that this was a contest with rules
and that Takamura sensei was unarmed. The most interesting thing to me
about this whole incident was that Takamura had deliberately pulled
theshoelace from his shoe, placed it in his sleeve in plain sight and
not one of us noticed. What a lesson rich incident this was..... Now
I'm sure that some MMA proponents will roll their eyes at this
Interlude and remark that it proves nothing. They will say venues like
Pride and UFC prove you must do everything in budo well and that
Takamura Sensei with a shoelace couldn't defeat the likes of Matt
Hughes or Sakuraba. That'sprobably true and sounds convincing enough
but such a dismissal misses the point. The truth is that to be
successful in a venue like the UFC your time is best spent training to
confront the challenges you ASSUME you will meet in the ring. Training
outside such an assumption is a waste of time.However, drop a
Portuguese knife fighter into the UFC ring and the Mixed martial arts
guy will realize he's really not a mixed martial artist After all, but
instead a specialist in unarmed sport conflict who hasn't "mixed"
expertise in knife fighting into his supposedly mixed martial art...
Those nasty old assumptions .... Now don't get me wrong, I greatly
admire the technical efficacy and Extreme level of physical training
the serious MMA practitioners like those in Pride or UFC display but
outside the paradigm they train for they can be just As vulnerable as
anyone else. It's not the individual version of MMA Itself that made
guys like Rickson Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Sakuraba or Matt Hughes
champions. It's really their creativity within each venues rules and
The extreme level of training they have devoted to obtaining their
skills. Each of these guys within the paradigm of what they do has
trained himself to an extreme level. That's the real secret to the
best style of budo.....Training intensity! So don't get hung up in
training in the ultimate martial art. You will Be chasing assumptions
forever. Instead pick an art that makes assumptions In line with what
you value or desire and then train with a level of Dedication equal to
what you expect to get from your martial art. If you're a Police
officer this will probably be a very different from a college
professor. In the case of the gentleman who contacted me in search of
the ultimatemartial art, I guess it is human nature to seek out
someone else's version of what's best when one has scant experience to
base an opinion on, but it is amusing to note how many people studying
martial arts beyond a beginners level fail to progress beyond the
myopic view that there could be any such thing as an ultimate martial
art. Remember, the only accurate assumption in budo is that your
assumptions Are never 100% correct. Toby ThreadgillTakamura-ha Shindo
Yoshin-ryu
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Forgive me, Dennis, if i correct you on a points:

{see    http://www.straightblastgym.com/why.htm   which explains in
great detail what good mma gyms are about}

1.MMA does not focus on being good at everything. (MMA i repeat is NOT
A SINGLE ART!}

Generally speaking, mosts MMA hobbyist- if i may call em that, focus
on 1 art. I focus on Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. And because all arts that
comprise MMA are focused on Randori, improvement is made quickly far
quicker than by doing Katas- although i do appreciate their the
occasional use of Katas as an aid to concentration.

With one art as your foundation, you learn enough of other arts to
defend yourself against them.

Personally, during the standing phase of the fight-boxing, my aim to
keep a tight defense, close the distance & then take my sparring
partner to the ground.

If you had trained in at an MMA gym, you 'd realise few are ever "full
time gladiators" as you said.

In fact watch Mirko "Cro-Cop"'s fights in Pride. He is a world kick
boxing champion with a largely Muay thai background.

He is considered amongst the elite of MMA fighters yet as you can see
in his fights on google video, he almost completely avoids grappling.

He defends himself against grappling submissions well, but does not
execute them himself.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=cro+cop


2. Character Building is big part of MMA as well.

Dennis, you quoted the following about traditional martial arts.

"personal character buildng as  well as loyalty to the group or clan
(Budo) and respect for teachers,using martial art as a tool"

"philosophy in daily living"

You seem to suggest MMA gyms lack these aspects. But you forget that
MMA gyms are under influence of Jiu-Jitus & Judo, esp Jiu-Jitsu.

Loyalty:

You would be surprised how much emphasis some Jiu-jitus cum MMA
schools place on loyalty. Having said that, the majority of
instructors also realise that Martial Arts is a business and it is a
free market. If you choose to switch to another school, they will
respect it.

Mutual respect:

Mutual respect is a cornerstone of Gracie philosophy  and as such good
MMA gyms place great focus on mutual respect, and on creating a
friendly environment for pple of both sexes and all ages to train.

Humility:

Becaue all arts taught at MMA gyms are performance based, with 100%
resistance (in drills or when up against white belts, of course one
uses varying resistance, say 30% or 50%), humility is often enforced.
Be arrogant and someone is always ready to beat you down. And even if
you are high level black belt in Jiu jitsu, make one slip & a purple
belt (if not a white belt) could tap you out. You will not win
everyday every round and this teaches humility.






The instructors at MMA gyms always spar with their students!




Week in week out. They learn through and together with their students.
And the more they learn the more the can teach their students.
This makes the instructors closer to their students and also the
students readily respect them because of this. Bare in mind that their
best students would beat them. But mutual respect is maintained.

How many traditionalist dare to risk a loss against their students?
How many "Masters" continue training as hard as they did when they
were white belts?

Further more, we call our instructors by name. They know the respect
we have for them is there, without having to give themselves titles.

http://www.renzogracie.com/

Walk into Renzo's gym and shout "Hey Renzo!"

He 'll walk up to you and say " Hi, how are you, my brother?"

And he doens't know you at all! He's not offended. He doesn't care for
titles.


3. "Not so deep rooted?"

I'll need you to explain that further. Is that a statement of fact or
opinion?


4. The future of MMA

Your concern for the future of MMA and its various Arts is unfounded.

Bare in mind that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Judo as well as Sambo ve
lasted about a 100 years already.

Judo under Dr Kano had long been well organised popular. With numerous
Jiu-Jitsu schools and MMA gyms offering Judo, certainly Judo as its
sole anchor, MMA would surive.

But Judo is not the "sole anchor". Western Boxing has lasted hundreds
of years and wrestling has survived since Greco-Roman times -
thousands of years!

Muay thai has lasted generations in Thailand and is popular through
out the world.

A good place to train in MMA is the Bankok fight club.

http://www.bangkokfightclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Ite\
mid=26&lang=en



As long as these arts survive so will MMA.


5. I repeat: MMA is NOT  an art on its own.

"It's good to train MMA as an adjunct to your core art. But you need
to faithfully stick to your core art to give you direction in your life."

Within MMA you choose your core art (for me it is bjj), and then a
little bit of other things and then you r considered an MMA fighter.

Again our friend Cro-Cop: He focuses almost entirely on Muay thai
skills in the MMA arena.

see his fight vs Brazilian Jiu-jitsu wizard Nogueira. Cro-cop was very
unfortunate to lose.

Even a professinal like him has Muay Thai as his core.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=cro+cop

Once again go back to google video.

"What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his
own soul"-a Bible quote."

IF HE LOSES HIS SOUL. As i've demonstrated, you dun lose your soul in
MMA.


Your entire argument against Mixed Martial arts is based on your
assertions that MMA gyms have

1.No philosophy

2.;that MMA is designed to be an ultimate art form. Which is it not.

3.Teach and train in too many techniques.

Judokas know lots of throws; how many do they regularly execute in
tournament? 2 or 3. Thats it. Many judo schools award black belts
based solely on touney performance these days.

Wrestling - there are really only 2 takedowns: the Double leg takedown
& the single leg takedown.

BJJ has 100s of techniques but u choose the few that work for you.

Indeed from white ble level to Black, the Armbar, Triangle Choke &
back choke continue to be the main submissions executed in tourneys.

The difference between white & black is more a matter of skill &
timing rather than knowledge of techniques.

Because grading in MMA arts is performance based, you r not tested on
the number of techniques you know but what you can execute.

This is in contrast to Traditionalist schools which require a certain
number techniques for each belt level.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

A final note to all readers : Don't take my word for it. Go out there
& search for library books on Jiu-jitsu, wrestling, boxing and MMA.

Read online articles(including the links i posted!)

Its your soul, and it's your decision.

----------------------------------------------------------------------












--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Chua" <hbchua@...>
wrote:
>
> Here's an intersting article from an MMA pratitioner  in reply to
the article Hal submitted.(below)
> Any feedback for discussion.?
>
> here's one -a personal opinion on looking from a different perspective.
>
> I think the reason why there are so many disagreements between
traditional and MMA is the different emphasis that MMA and traditional
places.
> Traditional martial arts  focus a specific skill eg. mainly kicking
and punching with a few take down and few grappling techs  or
grappling ,throwing  with a few kicks and strikes.Their focus if base
on traditional Asian martial art background  is personal character
buildng as  well as loyalty to the group or clan (Budo) and respect
for teachers,using martial art as a tool.Their emphasis is martial art
philosophy in daily living ,not so much as winning matches. They have
a proven system in sense of good organization and easy to transmit
this "package' for repeated generations.
> Since every body can only commit a certain amount of time  for
training, it is quite a challenge to learn and be good at everything.
MMA tries to be good at everything, but even then ,certain players
will place empasis on techniques they like.The core is grappling.
> MMA interest startted from BJJ.If you look up BJJ history, it arise
because of questioning the rationale of certain traditional pratice
and techs for practicality.Hence emphasis is to win to prove this
point.Of course they have philosophies attached to it, but it is not
so deep rooted as compared to asian traditional martal art philosophy
with its long history on living in a society. Traditional asian
martial art arise from political situation of their time. ( This is my
personal opinion.I believe MMA practitioners will argue on this).
>
> The challenge for MMA's future is this.Can they transmit to later
generations successfully? Traditional martial arts with a good deep
rooted philosophy and organisational skills have proven to transmit to
several generations down.And majority of people prefer philosophy in
living ,and martial art as an added insurance if need arises, rather
than being in the ring. Majority just need certain skill to defend
fast and get out fast in a situation.
> They cannot afford to be full time gladiators. They have to work.
>
>  A good example is Taekwondo.MMA practitioners can argue it has many
weaknesses, but why is it the world's most popular martial art today?
Why is the world's army still use TKD as the core martial art?
> Another is Aikido. It is still using traditional fighting techs,that
one can argue in today's context is not so practical.But why is it so
popular among the elite in society?
> Taichi is known as "utimate boxing" . "Ultimate" not to win matches
.but to win the match of life.-longevity. Martial art grandmasters of
hard styles still end up learning some form of taichi later in their life.
> The challenge for MMA to be able to pass down to many generation is
this.Does it have a deep sense of philosophy to attract the masses?
Does it have a uniformity to easily transmit to the masses.It is
difficult,because it is "mixed".Different instructors emphasise
differently, and are trained differently.
>
> So the question is akin to what you want in life.Do you want to
train an art for a certain period of your life or thoughout your life
.- eg  a fast sports car , a family saloon car or an all terrain SUV
(Sports utility Vehicle).  It's good to train MMA as an adjunct to
your core art .But you need to faithfully stick to your core art to
give you direction in your life. If  not,after learning "all the
secrets of the world" you become empty and frustrated.
> As for me,the ultimate martial art is  the one that lets me win the
  "Match of life".
> "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his
own soul"-a Bible quote.
>
>  Dennis
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kaiyi
> To: hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 10:49 PM
> Subject: [Hapkido Flying Eagle] Re: Ultimate Martial Art? The true
nature of mixed martial arts
>
>
>
> SELF DEFENSE AND MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>
> http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mma
>
> the criticism of Mixed Martial Arts in the article is way off the mark.
>
> If you truly want to learn self-defense, learn from police officers &
> soldiers. Learn the psychology of criminals. Because a skilled
> criminal will NOT give you the chance to defend yourself. He 'll walk
> up to you in the dark and stab in the back. Self defense is about
> knowing how to identify bad situations (drunk gang members, dark
> alleys) and avoid them or worse come to worse you talk your way out.
>
> No mixed martial artist would ever claim to be able to fight 10 men,
> nor does any sensei who claims to be able to demonstrate so. If
> someone has a knife, most genuine self defense experts will recommend
> you run or pick up a chair to batter your opponent.
>
> The argument for learning Mixed Martials Arts as an aid to
> self-defense is this: If you are confronted and assualted by a clumsy
> thug or drunk who is unarmed, then what you learn on the mat & in the
> ring is highly applicable because you fight against a parter who is
> 100% uncooperative and that creates an experience as close as possible
> to a real fight in which your assailant will also be 100%
> uncooperative. In many streets fights 1 or more parties often fall to
> the ground. Much of mixed martial arts involves escaping pins by
> opponents WHO CAN STRIKE YOU FROM THE TOP WITH ELBOWS, KNEES AND FISTS!
>
> This is in contrast to many traditional arts where u learn patterns
> which have no resemblance to most human reactions in a fight.
>
> Randori is what gives you some real fighting ability. It gives you the
> timing you will need in a real fight. Will you ever use it? Prob
> never. Will it work? maybe not. which brings us a point of agreement.
>
> ~Select a martial art that brings you joy. Mixed martial arts should
> not be pursued simply because you view it as the means to being a
> great fighter. For many mixed martial artistes, mixed martial arts is
> a healthy pursuit for training the mind and body, a challenge. The
> same way one challenges oneself by playing chess. I love playing
> chess. And who knows one day i may give up mma to play chess? Unlikely
> but possible!
>
> Having said that, proof that mixed martial arts is generally healthy
> can be found in Pride & UFC. Although there are a few bad apples like
> Ricardo Arona and Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie who are rude towards
> opponents, many opponents actually train together at one pt or another
> - helping each other improve! And look what happens at the end of many
> fights: the fighters embrace without malice and chi chat. And they say
> " lets train together sometime"
>
> Can you imagine Rudd Van Nisterooy telling that to Patrick Viera?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> THE TRUE NATURE OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>
> Donny who? For me the author of this article should make up his mind;
> 1st he attempts to discredit wrestling (which is a large part of mixed
> martial arts) and then proceeds to say the Traditionalists can't
> defeat Sakuraba & Ken Shamrock which is true; traditionalists were
> annhilated in Mixed martial arts tourneys and indeed have been
> consistently defeated by Muay Thai exponents in boxing matches.
>
> A further clarification on the Nature of MMA; an mma fighter is NOT
> AIMING TO CREATE & DEVELOPE AN ULTIMATE ART. Rather an mma fighter
> simply aims to cross - train and become as good a fighter as he can.
> Many of them emphasize their original art; a Muay thai fighter in an
> mma tourney is one with superb boxing skills & with only decent
> grappling skills (search "cro cop" on google video).
>
> Mixed martial arts is NOT style in any sense of the word. All mixed
> martial artiste will normally know some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
> and one or 2 wrestling moves.
>
> Nxt they 'd be equipped with a type of boxing: Take your pick from
> Savate/Western boxing/Muay Thai/Full contact Karate with boxing base.
> Many of them have NO KICKING SKILLS.
>
> And then may equipped in Sambo(Russian Judo) to yet more Wrestling or
> Judo. Indeed some Brazilian jiu-jitsu exponents are very poor with
> Judo throws and wrestling takedowns[i'm a prime example :( ].
>
> What all these arts have in common is that they all base training
> against a resisting opponent - in other words Randori.
>
> So as you can see MMA is not an art, merely a term for a sport(which
> aids self defemse) in which pple from all arts join and fight.
>
> A FINAL NOTE: Don't think MMA vs Traditional martial arts
>
> Traditional arts & mixed martial are not opposed. At Kreation Jiu
> Jitsu (at he budo academy) where i train, many of my fellow students
> have extensive tradtional backgrounds. They enjoyed traditional
> martial arts. I myself tried "Praying Mantis Kung Fu" whilst training
> at Kreation.
>
> I repeat, have fun and also be humble. Don't say my art will beat
> yours-my father will beat your father kind of nonsense. You won't be
> happy saying these things.
>
> Happy training whatever your art is!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Chua" <hbchua@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting article
> > DrChua
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: halcopeland@
> > To: HanMuDo@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:14 AM
> > Subject: [HanMuDo] Ultimate Martial Art?
> >
> >
> > I ran upon this article and thought I would share it with the list.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > -Hal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.aikidojournal.com/?author=9
> >
> > Assumptions by Toby Threadgill Recently I was introduced to a
> gentleman interested in martial artstraining. He was not really aware
> of what I teach or of what constitutesNihon Koryu Jujutsu. He just
> assumed that because I taught it, that I mustbelieve it to be "the
> best". When I told him I did not believe the art Itaught to be "the
> best", an uncomfortable silence ensued. I finally brokethis taciturn
> moment by explaining that there is actually no such thing as a"best"
> martial art. Despite a noble effort to grasp what I was talkingabout,
> the gentleman in question eventually regressed, unable to shake
> theimpression that if I was not convinced that what I taught was
> superior toall other forms of martial arts, that I was somehow
> unworthy of teachinghim. I politely encouraged him to look around,
> consider what I had said and contact me again if he had any further
> questions. A few days later Ireceived an e-mail from this gentleman in
> which he explained that he had indeed found someone convinced that
> they taught the ultimate style ofmartial arts. It was called "mixed
> martial arts" because it embodied only the best of all the styles. I
> just smiled to myself as I politely responded, congratulating him on
> his fortuitous discovery. An ultimate martial art, huh? Now there's an
> oxymoron for you. Every Martial art is ultimately based on
> assumptions. In fact any training programformulated to address
> conflict is based on assumptions. It's kinda like the old joke about
> bringing a knife to a gun fight. No matter how good you are, your
> assumptions define your training paradigm. Narrow your assumptions and
> you specialize, gaining the opportunity to excel at one task. Broaden
> your assumptions and you might be able address many different
> situations but at what level of expertise? It's an intriguing dilemma
> isn't it? Specialize, and be defeated by someone outside your
> strengths. Be a generalist and Some specialist will hand you your head
> on a platter. What's a martial artist to do? Years ago my teacher
> Yukio Takamura taught a seminar which touched upon This topic. The
> seminar subject was a comparison between sport budo and Classical
> budo. During the lunch break a young karateka & wrestler, I'll call
> Donny, loudly dismissed Takamura Sensei's teachings as antiquated
> nonsense. Inresponse to this pronouncement Takamura shook his head and
> chuckled while fiddling with his shoes. Donny, rather brash and full
> of bravado turned to Takamura Sensei and said, "Now don't get me wrong
> old man, your stuff is fun to watch and all but your jujutsu is no
> match for my karate and wrestling.Takamura flashed a devilish smile at
> Donny and said, "Okay, show me". Donny backed off a bit at this
> unexpected challenge and said "Well, I'm not Going to fight you,
> you're too old. How about him" pointing at Dave Maynard.Takamura
> responded "No, you were talking about my jujutsu, not his. I Want you
> to show me." Rather pensively Donny strolled out onto the dojo mat
> with Takamura Sensei as a hushed silence overtook the room. At first
> Donnyappeared reluctant to do anything but when he noticed that all
> eyes were on him he revved up his courage and proceeded to execute a
> very nice double leg takedown, climbing up on what at first appeared
> to be a rather startledTakamura Sensei. As Donny attempted to continue
> his seemingly Successful offense we noticed something flick around
> Donny's neck. Suddenly, Donnytried to pull away, his head turning as
> red as a ripe tomato. In a fewseconds he fell over wheezing. At that
> point we realized that a shoelace was resting tightly around Donny's
> neck. Where had it come from? Takamura had secreted the shoelace in
> his sleeve and then executed a simple choke with it. As he revived
> Donny from his impromptu slumber he explained to thestunned witnesses
> that Donny had missed the point of the seminar altogether and made a
> dangerous assumption. He assumed that this was a contest with rules
> and that Takamura sensei was unarmed. The most interesting thing to me
> about this whole incident was that Takamura had deliberately pulled
> theshoelace from his shoe, placed it in his sleeve in plain sight and
> not one of us noticed. What a lesson rich incident this was..... Now
> I'm sure that some MMA proponents will roll their eyes at this
> Interlude and remark that it proves nothing. They will say venues like
> Pride and UFC prove you must do everything in budo well and that
> Takamura Sensei with a shoelace couldn't defeat the likes of Matt
> Hughes or Sakuraba. That'sprobably true and sounds convincing enough
> but such a dismissal misses the point. The truth is that to be
> successful in a venue like the UFC your time is best spent training to
> confront the challenges you ASSUME you will meet in the ring. Training
> outside such an assumption is a waste of time.However, drop a
> Portuguese knife fighter into the UFC ring and the Mixed martial arts
> guy will realize he's really not a mixed martial artist After all, but
> instead a specialist in unarmed sport conflict who hasn't "mixed"
> expertise in knife fighting into his supposedly mixed martial art...
> Those nasty old assumptions .... Now don't get me wrong, I greatly
> admire the technical efficacy and Extreme level of physical training
> the serious MMA practitioners like those in Pride or UFC display but
> outside the paradigm they train for they can be just As vulnerable as
> anyone else. It's not the individual version of MMA Itself that made
> guys like Rickson Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Sakuraba or Matt Hughes
> champions. It's really their creativity within each venues rules and
> The extreme level of training they have devoted to obtaining their
> skills. Each of these guys within the paradigm of what they do has
> trained himself to an extreme level. That's the real secret to the
> best style of budo.....Training intensity! So don't get hung up in
> training in the ultimate martial art. You will Be chasing assumptions
> forever. Instead pick an art that makes assumptions In line with what
> you value or desire and then train with a level of Dedication equal to
> what you expect to get from your martial art. If you're a Police
> officer this will probably be a very different from a college
> professor. In the case of the gentleman who contacted me in search of
> the ultimatemartial art, I guess it is human nature to seek out
> someone else's version of what's best when one has scant experience to
> base an opinion on, but it is amusing to note how many people studying
> martial arts beyond a beginners level fail to progress beyond the
> myopic view that there could be any such thing as an ultimate martial
> art. Remember, the only accurate assumption in budo is that your
> assumptions Are never 100% correct. Toby ThreadgillTakamura-ha Shindo
> Yoshin-ryu
> >
> >
> >
> > To have a friend subscribe, send them the link:
> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/HanMuDo
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise  Fitness health  Health
> fitness product
> >       Fitness nutrition  Health nutrition  Womens health fitness
> magazine
> >
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >   a..  Visit your group "HanMuDo" on the web.
> >
> >   b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >    HanMuDo-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>   a..  Visit your group "hapkidoflyingeagle" on the web.
>
>   b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    hapkidoflyingeagle-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

I used to train under Master Lim is HKD until i switched to MMA.
Which is why i've joined this group.







--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Kaiyi" <ech0222@...> wrote:
>
> I'm kaiyi from Kreation jiu-jitsu. We are presently training at the
> Budo academy.
>
> We emphasize grappling: wrestling, judo & jiu jitsu, gi & no-gi.
>
> We also do some boxing on Mondays.
>
> If you wish to find out more, call my head instructor
>
> Kon at 96771737.
>
> http://www.straightblastgym.com/international.htm#Singapore
>

A clarfication on boxers having no kicking skills: Many boxers in the
MMA arena are Western boxers who as we all know do not kick, hence
their kicking skills are poor. Some simple do not bother to learn how
to kick, rather preferring to focus on boxing & grappling.









--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Kaiyi" <ech0222@...> wrote:
>
>
> SELF DEFENSE AND MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>
> http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mma
>
> the criticism of Mixed Martial Arts in the article is way off the mark.
>
> If you truly want to learn self-defense, learn from police officers &
> soldiers. Learn the psychology of criminals. Because a skilled
> criminal will NOT give you the chance to defend yourself. He 'll walk
> up to you in the dark and stab in the back. Self defense is about
> knowing how to identify bad situations (drunk gang members, dark
> alleys) and avoid them or worse come to worse you talk your way out.
>
> No mixed martial artist would ever claim to be able to fight 10 men,
> nor does any sensei who claims to be able to demonstrate so. If
> someone has a knife, most genuine self defense experts will recommend
> you run or pick up a chair to batter your opponent.
>
> The argument for learning Mixed Martials Arts as an aid to
> self-defense is this: If you are confronted and assualted by a clumsy
> thug or drunk who is unarmed, then what you learn on the mat & in the
> ring is highly applicable because you fight against a parter who is
> 100% uncooperative and that creates an experience as close as possible
> to a real fight in which your assailant will also be 100%
> uncooperative. In many streets fights 1 or more parties often fall to
> the ground. Much of mixed martial arts involves escaping pins by
> opponents WHO CAN STRIKE YOU FROM THE TOP WITH ELBOWS, KNEES AND FISTS!
>
> This is in contrast to many traditional arts where u learn patterns
> which have no resemblance to most human reactions in a fight.
>
> Randori is what gives you some real fighting ability. It gives you the
> timing you will need in a real fight. Will you ever use it? Prob
> never. Will it work? maybe not. which brings us a point of agreement.
>
> ~Select a martial art that brings you joy. Mixed martial arts should
> not be pursued simply because you view it as the means to being a
> great fighter. For many mixed martial artistes, mixed martial arts is
> a healthy pursuit for training the mind and body, a challenge. The
> same way one challenges oneself by playing chess. I love playing
> chess. And who knows one day i may give up mma to play chess? Unlikely
> but possible!
>
> Having said that, proof that mixed martial arts is generally healthy
> can be found in Pride & UFC. Although there are a few bad apples like
> Ricardo Arona and Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie who are rude towards
> opponents, many opponents actually train together at one pt or another
> - helping each other improve! And look what happens at the end of many
> fights: the fighters embrace without malice and chi chat. And they say
> " lets train together sometime"
>
> Can you imagine Rudd Van Nisterooy telling that to Patrick Viera?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> THE TRUE NATURE OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:
>
> Donny who? For me the author of this article should make up his mind;
> 1st he attempts to discredit wrestling (which is a large part of mixed
> martial arts) and then proceeds to say the Traditionalists can't
> defeat Sakuraba & Ken Shamrock which is true; traditionalists were
> annhilated in Mixed martial arts tourneys and indeed have been
> consistently defeated by Muay Thai exponents in boxing matches.
>
> A further clarification on the Nature of MMA; an mma fighter is NOT
> AIMING TO CREATE & DEVELOPE AN ULTIMATE ART. Rather an mma fighter
> simply aims to cross - train and become as good a fighter as he can.
> Many of them emphasize their original art; a Muay thai fighter in an
> mma tourney is one with superb boxing skills & with only decent
> grappling skills (search "cro cop" on google video).
>
> Mixed martial arts is NOT style in any sense of the word. All mixed
> martial artiste will normally know some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
> and one or 2 wrestling moves.
>
> Nxt they 'd be equipped with a type of boxing: Take your pick from
> Savate/Western boxing/Muay Thai/Full contact Karate with boxing base.
> Many of them have NO KICKING SKILLS.
>
> And then may equipped in Sambo(Russian Judo) to yet more Wrestling or
> Judo. Indeed some Brazilian jiu-jitsu exponents are very poor with
> Judo throws and wrestling takedowns[i'm a prime example :( ].
>
> What all these arts have in common is that they all base training
> against a resisting opponent - in other words Randori.
>
> So as you can see MMA is not an art, merely a term for a sport(which
> aids self defemse) in which pple from all arts join and fight.
>
> A FINAL NOTE: Don't think MMA vs Traditional martial arts
>
> Traditional arts & mixed martial are not opposed. At Kreation Jiu
> Jitsu (at he budo academy) where i train, many of my fellow students
> have extensive tradtional backgrounds. They enjoyed traditional
> martial arts. I myself tried "Praying Mantis Kung Fu" whilst training
> at Kreation.
>
> I repeat, have fun and also be humble. Don't say my art will beat
> yours-my father will beat your father kind of nonsense. You won't be
> happy saying these things.
>
> Happy training whatever your art is!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Chua" <hbchua@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting article
> > DrChua
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: halcopeland@
> > To: HanMuDo@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:14 AM
> > Subject: [HanMuDo] Ultimate Martial Art?
> >
> >
> > I ran upon this article and thought I would share it with the list.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > -Hal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.aikidojournal.com/?author=9
> >
> > Assumptions by Toby Threadgill Recently I was introduced to a
> gentleman interested in martial artstraining. He was not really aware
> of what I teach or of what constitutesNihon Koryu Jujutsu. He just
> assumed that because I taught it, that I mustbelieve it to be "the
> best". When I told him I did not believe the art Itaught to be "the
> best", an uncomfortable silence ensued. I finally brokethis taciturn
> moment by explaining that there is actually no such thing as a"best"
> martial art. Despite a noble effort to grasp what I was talkingabout,
> the gentleman in question eventually regressed, unable to shake
> theimpression that if I was not convinced that what I taught was
> superior toall other forms of martial arts, that I was somehow
> unworthy of teachinghim. I politely encouraged him to look around,
> consider what I had said and contact me again if he had any further
> questions. A few days later Ireceived an e-mail from this gentleman in
> which he explained that he had indeed found someone convinced that
> they taught the ultimate style ofmartial arts. It was called "mixed
> martial arts" because it embodied only the best of all the styles. I
> just smiled to myself as I politely responded, congratulating him on
> his fortuitous discovery. An ultimate martial art, huh? Now there's an
> oxymoron for you. Every Martial art is ultimately based on
> assumptions. In fact any training programformulated to address
> conflict is based on assumptions. It's kinda like the old joke about
> bringing a knife to a gun fight. No matter how good you are, your
> assumptions define your training paradigm. Narrow your assumptions and
> you specialize, gaining the opportunity to excel at one task. Broaden
> your assumptions and you might be able address many different
> situations but at what level of expertise? It's an intriguing dilemma
> isn't it? Specialize, and be defeated by someone outside your
> strengths. Be a generalist and Some specialist will hand you your head
> on a platter. What's a martial artist to do? Years ago my teacher
> Yukio Takamura taught a seminar which touched upon This topic. The
> seminar subject was a comparison between sport budo and Classical
> budo. During the lunch break a young karateka & wrestler, I'll call
> Donny, loudly dismissed Takamura Sensei's teachings as antiquated
> nonsense. Inresponse to this pronouncement Takamura shook his head and
> chuckled while fiddling with his shoes. Donny, rather brash and full
> of bravado turned to Takamura Sensei and said, "Now don't get me wrong
> old man, your stuff is fun to watch and all but your jujutsu is no
> match for my karate and wrestling.Takamura flashed a devilish smile at
> Donny and said, "Okay, show me". Donny backed off a bit at this
> unexpected challenge and said "Well, I'm not Going to fight you,
> you're too old. How about him" pointing at Dave Maynard.Takamura
> responded "No, you were talking about my jujutsu, not his. I Want you
> to show me." Rather pensively Donny strolled out onto the dojo mat
> with Takamura Sensei as a hushed silence overtook the room. At first
> Donnyappeared reluctant to do anything but when he noticed that all
> eyes were on him he revved up his courage and proceeded to execute a
> very nice double leg takedown, climbing up on what at first appeared
> to be a rather startledTakamura Sensei. As Donny attempted to continue
> his seemingly Successful offense we noticed something flick around
> Donny's neck. Suddenly, Donnytried to pull away, his head turning as
> red as a ripe tomato. In a fewseconds he fell over wheezing. At that
> point we realized that a shoelace was resting tightly around Donny's
> neck. Where had it come from? Takamura had secreted the shoelace in
> his sleeve and then executed a simple choke with it. As he revived
> Donny from his impromptu slumber he explained to thestunned witnesses
> that Donny had missed the point of the seminar altogether and made a
> dangerous assumption. He assumed that this was a contest with rules
> and that Takamura sensei was unarmed. The most interesting thing to me
> about this whole incident was that Takamura had deliberately pulled
> theshoelace from his shoe, placed it in his sleeve in plain sight and
> not one of us noticed. What a lesson rich incident this was..... Now
> I'm sure that some MMA proponents will roll their eyes at this
> Interlude and remark that it proves nothing. They will say venues like
> Pride and UFC prove you must do everything in budo well and that
> Takamura Sensei with a shoelace couldn't defeat the likes of Matt
> Hughes or Sakuraba. That'sprobably true and sounds convincing enough
> but such a dismissal misses the point. The truth is that to be
> successful in a venue like the UFC your time is best spent training to
> confront the challenges you ASSUME you will meet in the ring. Training
> outside such an assumption is a waste of time.However, drop a
> Portuguese knife fighter into the UFC ring and the Mixed martial arts
> guy will realize he's really not a mixed martial artist After all, but
> instead a specialist in unarmed sport conflict who hasn't "mixed"
> expertise in knife fighting into his supposedly mixed martial art...
> Those nasty old assumptions .... Now don't get me wrong, I greatly
> admire the technical efficacy and Extreme level of physical training
> the serious MMA practitioners like those in Pride or UFC display but
> outside the paradigm they train for they can be just As vulnerable as
> anyone else. It's not the individual version of MMA Itself that made
> guys like Rickson Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Sakuraba or Matt Hughes
> champions. It's really their creativity within each venues rules and
> The extreme level of training they have devoted to obtaining their
> skills. Each of these guys within the paradigm of what they do has
> trained himself to an extreme level. That's the real secret to the
> best style of budo.....Training intensity! So don't get hung up in
> training in the ultimate martial art. You will Be chasing assumptions
> forever. Instead pick an art that makes assumptions In line with what
> you value or desire and then train with a level of Dedication equal to
> what you expect to get from your martial art. If you're a Police
> officer this will probably be a very different from a college
> professor. In the case of the gentleman who contacted me in search of
> the ultimatemartial art, I guess it is human nature to seek out
> someone else's version of what's best when one has scant experience to
> base an opinion on, but it is amusing to note how many people studying
> martial arts beyond a beginners level fail to progress beyond the
> myopic view that there could be any such thing as an ultimate martial
> art. Remember, the only accurate assumption in budo is that your
> assumptions Are never 100% correct. Toby ThreadgillTakamura-ha Shindo
> Yoshin-ryu
> >
> >
> >
> > To have a friend subscribe, send them the link:
> http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/HanMuDo
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise  Fitness health  Health
> fitness product
> >       Fitness nutrition  Health nutrition  Womens health fitness
> magazine
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >   a..  Visit your group "HanMuDo" on the web.
> >
> >   b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >    HanMuDo-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
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> >
>
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> >
>

I'm kaiyi from Kreation jiu-jitsu. We are presently training at the
Budo academy.

We emphasize grappling: wrestling, judo & jiu jitsu, gi & no-gi.

We also do some boxing on Mondays.

If you wish to find out more, call my head instructor

Kon at 96771737.

http://www.straightblastgym.com/international.htm#Singapore

SELF DEFENSE AND MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=mma

the criticism of Mixed Martial Arts in the article is way off the mark.

If you truly want to learn self-defense, learn from police officers &
soldiers. Learn the psychology of criminals. Because a skilled
criminal will NOT give you the chance to defend yourself. He 'll walk
up to you in the dark and stab in the back. Self defense is about
knowing how to identify bad situations (drunk gang members, dark
alleys) and avoid them or worse come to worse you talk your way out.

No mixed martial artist would ever claim to be able to fight 10 men,
nor does any sensei who claims to be able to demonstrate so. If
someone has a knife, most genuine self defense experts will recommend
you run or pick up a chair to batter your opponent.

The argument for learning Mixed Martials Arts as an aid to
self-defense is this: If you are confronted and assualted by a clumsy
thug or drunk who is unarmed, then what you learn on the mat & in the
ring is highly applicable because you fight against a parter who is
100% uncooperative and that creates an experience as close as possible
to a real fight in which your assailant will also be 100%
uncooperative. In many streets fights 1 or more parties often fall to
the ground. Much of mixed martial arts involves escaping pins by
opponents WHO CAN STRIKE YOU FROM THE TOP WITH ELBOWS, KNEES AND FISTS!

This is in contrast to many traditional arts where u learn patterns
which have no resemblance to most human reactions in a fight.

Randori is what gives you some real fighting ability. It gives you the
timing you will need in a real fight. Will you ever use it? Prob
never. Will it work? maybe not. which brings us a point of agreement.

~Select a martial art that brings you joy. Mixed martial arts should
not be pursued simply because you view it as the means to being a
great fighter. For many mixed martial artistes, mixed martial arts is
a healthy pursuit for training the mind and body, a challenge. The
same way one challenges oneself by playing chess. I love playing
chess. And who knows one day i may give up mma to play chess? Unlikely
but possible!

Having said that, proof that mixed martial arts is generally healthy
can be found in Pride & UFC. Although there are a few bad apples like
Ricardo Arona and Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie who are rude towards
opponents, many opponents actually train together at one pt or another
- helping each other improve! And look what happens at the end of many
fights: the fighters embrace without malice and chi chat. And they say
" lets train together sometime"

Can you imagine Rudd Van Nisterooy telling that to Patrick Viera?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

THE TRUE NATURE OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS:

Donny who? For me the author of this article should make up his mind;
1st he attempts to discredit wrestling (which is a large part of mixed
martial arts) and then proceeds to say the Traditionalists can't
defeat Sakuraba & Ken Shamrock which is true; traditionalists were
annhilated in Mixed martial arts tourneys and indeed have been
consistently defeated by Muay Thai exponents in boxing matches.

A further clarification on the Nature of MMA; an mma fighter is NOT
AIMING TO CREATE & DEVELOPE AN ULTIMATE ART. Rather an mma fighter
simply aims to cross - train and become as good a fighter as he can.
Many of them emphasize their original art; a Muay thai fighter in an
mma tourney is one with superb boxing skills & with only decent
grappling skills (search "cro cop" on google video).

Mixed martial arts is NOT style in any sense of the word. All mixed
martial artiste will normally know some Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
and one or 2 wrestling moves.

Nxt they 'd be equipped with a type of boxing: Take your pick from
Savate/Western boxing/Muay Thai/Full contact Karate with boxing base.
Many of them have NO KICKING SKILLS.

And then may equipped in Sambo(Russian Judo) to yet more Wrestling or
Judo. Indeed some Brazilian jiu-jitsu exponents are very poor with
Judo throws and wrestling takedowns[i'm a prime example :( ].

What all these arts have in common is that they all base training
against a resisting opponent - in other words Randori.

So as you can see MMA is not an art, merely a term for a sport(which
aids self defemse) in which pple from all arts join and fight.

A FINAL NOTE: Don't think MMA vs Traditional martial arts

Traditional arts & mixed martial are not opposed. At Kreation Jiu
Jitsu (at he budo academy) where i train, many of my fellow students
have extensive tradtional backgrounds. They enjoyed traditional
martial arts. I myself tried "Praying Mantis Kung Fu" whilst training
at Kreation.

I repeat, have fun and also be humble. Don't say my art will beat
yours-my father will beat your father kind of nonsense. You won't be
happy saying these things.

Happy training whatever your art is!










--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Chua" <hbchua@...>
wrote:
>
> Interesting article
> DrChua
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: halcopeland@...
> To: HanMuDo@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 2:14 AM
> Subject: [HanMuDo] Ultimate Martial Art?
>
>
> I ran upon this article and thought I would share it with the list.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> -Hal
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.aikidojournal.com/?author=9
>
> Assumptions by Toby Threadgill Recently I was introduced to a
gentleman interested in martial artstraining. He was not really aware
of what I teach or of what constitutesNihon Koryu Jujutsu. He just
assumed that because I taught it, that I mustbelieve it to be "the
best". When I told him I did not believe the art Itaught to be "the
best", an uncomfortable silence ensued. I finally brokethis taciturn
moment by explaining that there is actually no such thing as a"best"
martial art. Despite a noble effort to grasp what I was talkingabout,
the gentleman in question eventually regressed, unable to shake
theimpression that if I was not convinced that what I taught was
superior toall other forms of martial arts, that I was somehow
unworthy of teachinghim. I politely encouraged him to look around,
consider what I had said and contact me again if he had any further
questions. A few days later Ireceived an e-mail from this gentleman in
which he explained that he had indeed found someone convinced that
they taught the ultimate style ofmartial arts. It was called "mixed
martial arts" because it embodied only the best of all the styles. I
just smiled to myself as I politely responded, congratulating him on
his fortuitous discovery. An ultimate martial art, huh? Now there's an
oxymoron for you. Every Martial art is ultimately based on
assumptions. In fact any training programformulated to address
conflict is based on assumptions. It's kinda like the old joke about
bringing a knife to a gun fight. No matter how good you are, your
assumptions define your training paradigm. Narrow your assumptions and
you specialize, gaining the opportunity to excel at one task. Broaden
your assumptions and you might be able address many different
situations but at what level of expertise? It's an intriguing dilemma
isn't it? Specialize, and be defeated by someone outside your
strengths. Be a generalist and Some specialist will hand you your head
on a platter. What's a martial artist to do? Years ago my teacher
Yukio Takamura taught a seminar which touched upon This topic. The
seminar subject was a comparison between sport budo and Classical
budo. During the lunch break a young karateka & wrestler, I'll call
Donny, loudly dismissed Takamura Sensei's teachings as antiquated
nonsense. Inresponse to this pronouncement Takamura shook his head and
chuckled while fiddling with his shoes. Donny, rather brash and full
of bravado turned to Takamura Sensei and said, "Now don't get me wrong
old man, your stuff is fun to watch and all but your jujutsu is no
match for my karate and wrestling.Takamura flashed a devilish smile at
Donny and said, "Okay, show me". Donny backed off a bit at this
unexpected challenge and said "Well, I'm not Going to fight you,
you're too old. How about him" pointing at Dave Maynard.Takamura
responded "No, you were talking about my jujutsu, not his. I Want you
to show me." Rather pensively Donny strolled out onto the dojo mat
with Takamura Sensei as a hushed silence overtook the room. At first
Donnyappeared reluctant to do anything but when he noticed that all
eyes were on him he revved up his courage and proceeded to execute a
very nice double leg takedown, climbing up on what at first appeared
to be a rather startledTakamura Sensei. As Donny attempted to continue
his seemingly Successful offense we noticed something flick around
Donny's neck. Suddenly, Donnytried to pull away, his head turning as
red as a ripe tomato. In a fewseconds he fell over wheezing. At that
point we realized that a shoelace was resting tightly around Donny's
neck. Where had it come from? Takamura had secreted the shoelace in
his sleeve and then executed a simple choke with it. As he revived
Donny from his impromptu slumber he explained to thestunned witnesses
that Donny had missed the point of the seminar altogether and made a
dangerous assumption. He assumed that this was a contest with rules
and that Takamura sensei was unarmed. The most interesting thing to me
about this whole incident was that Takamura had deliberately pulled
theshoelace from his shoe, placed it in his sleeve in plain sight and
not one of us noticed. What a lesson rich incident this was..... Now
I'm sure that some MMA proponents will roll their eyes at this
Interlude and remark that it proves nothing. They will say venues like
Pride and UFC prove you must do everything in budo well and that
Takamura Sensei with a shoelace couldn't defeat the likes of Matt
Hughes or Sakuraba. That'sprobably true and sounds convincing enough
but such a dismissal misses the point. The truth is that to be
successful in a venue like the UFC your time is best spent training to
confront the challenges you ASSUME you will meet in the ring. Training
outside such an assumption is a waste of time.However, drop a
Portuguese knife fighter into the UFC ring and the Mixed martial arts
guy will realize he's really not a mixed martial artist After all, but
instead a specialist in unarmed sport conflict who hasn't "mixed"
expertise in knife fighting into his supposedly mixed martial art...
Those nasty old assumptions .... Now don't get me wrong, I greatly
admire the technical efficacy and Extreme level of physical training
the serious MMA practitioners like those in Pride or UFC display but
outside the paradigm they train for they can be just As vulnerable as
anyone else. It's not the individual version of MMA Itself that made
guys like Rickson Gracie, Ken Shamrock, Sakuraba or Matt Hughes
champions. It's really their creativity within each venues rules and
The extreme level of training they have devoted to obtaining their
skills. Each of these guys within the paradigm of what they do has
trained himself to an extreme level. That's the real secret to the
best style of budo.....Training intensity! So don't get hung up in
training in the ultimate martial art. You will Be chasing assumptions
forever. Instead pick an art that makes assumptions In line with what
you value or desire and then train with a level of Dedication equal to
what you expect to get from your martial art. If you're a Police
officer this will probably be a very different from a college
professor. In the case of the gentleman who contacted me in search of
the ultimatemartial art, I guess it is human nature to seek out
someone else's version of what's best when one has scant experience to
base an opinion on, but it is amusing to note how many people studying
martial arts beyond a beginners level fail to progress beyond the
myopic view that there could be any such thing as an ultimate martial
art. Remember, the only accurate assumption in budo is that your
assumptions Are never 100% correct. Toby ThreadgillTakamura-ha Shindo
Yoshin-ryu
>
>
>
> To have a friend subscribe, send them the link:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/HanMuDo
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Health fitness franchise  Fitness health  Health
fitness product
>       Fitness nutrition  Health nutrition  Womens health fitness
magazine
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>   a..  Visit your group "HanMuDo" on the web.
>
>   b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    HanMuDo-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Hello Everybody!

Good Greetings to everyone here!

My team and I had created a Hapkido Community Website to provide
Information about Hapkido like lineage, articles etc. and also a forum.
We feel that Hapkido needs a website and forum for itself!

This website is dedicated for Hapkido related only but the forum will
cater to a wider area but Hapkido will have a thread itself!

This website will be handle by all Hapkido Volunteers so be nice okay
people! We hope to bring in good hapkido articles, goodies and more
things we can think of, exclusively only for our forum members! So to
be a member of us, just need to sign up at our forum!
We are also recruiting Volunteers to help us, anybody, anyone as long
as you are a Hapkido fan!
We also welcome comments and suggestions!

Website Address: http://www.hkd.in

If you have any questions related to this, just post here or in the
forum! Thanks!

Feel free to drop by or contribute! Pass the word!

Cheers,
Daniel

Hello,



I'd like to invite you to join our new martial arts forum.  It was
started exactly one week ago and already has 55 users and 750
messages.  There areas for all types of martial arts and special
interests areas for instructors and school owners.



Please consider joining and sharing your knowledge and ideas.  The
address is http://forums.natkd.com.



Respectfully



--

Jason E. Thomas

5th Dan

Chief Instructor

North Austin Tae Kwon Do

www.natkd.com

Natkd.com has started a martial arts forum.

The address is:  http://forums.natkd.com

Thanks..

Hi Master Dennis,

Congrats on your appointment!

Best Regards,
Daniel

--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Chua"
<hbchua@p...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Dr.Dennis Chua ,president of Hanmudo Association Singapore and
Chief Instructor and founder of  Hapkido Shim Do Kwan ,
> is appointed by GHF to be Singapore representative for Global
Hapkido Federation.
> He is also appointed as International Committee member as
Chairperson for Education and Training
>
> http://www.globalhapkido.org/modules.php?
name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=7
>
> Global Hapkido Federation
> http://www.globalhapkido.org/index.php
>

Hey Master Ramon,

Nice to hear from you! Its been sometime!

Happy New Year to You!

Yes, Ki is definitely very important, Tan Jon Breathing Exercises are
therefore very important to do it everyday.

There will be a high risk if you do your Tan Jon Breathing wrongly so
everyone has to be careful.

I believe not only in Breathing but also shouting out loud(Let out
your Breathing) which GM Tan Sar Bee Teaches.

Best Regards,
Daniel

--- In hapkidoflyingeagle@yahoogroups.com, ramonnavarro123
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi all and be blessed.
>
> I believe that you all know that Ki's development can be so in many
> different ways but all of them are sure Developer only if done
> diligently in the type of exercises that is being trained.
>
> Does any one comment on this and give any of your exercises,
explaining
> what you know about how to do it correctly to control our Ki and if
> there are any risks and what advices do you give to avoid this
problem?
>
> Muchas gracias por compartir.
>
> HAP
>
> Ramon Navarro
> SabomNim de HapKiDo
> Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo
> Panama Ciudad de Panama
>