I might be able to do that :)   Where are you living now?  Not in Colorado
right?  How's off-road handcycling going? Still really enjoying it?  I
am...yesterday I got so stuck on a hill because of the mud I got my rear tire
completely covered...it kept slipping and I thought I'd never make it up the
hill :)  After going backwards back down hill two or three times I was able to
make a good run at it and finally made it :)  It was so awesome!

Also, I decided to put Avid BB7's all the way around with 185 discs on
front..more braking power.  Then I also added a SRAM 9-speed X-9 derailleur with
an X-9 trigger shifter....I really like the upgrades.

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"


--- On Tue, 2/3/09, Jake OConnor <kchandcycle@...> wrote:

> From: Jake OConnor <kchandcycle@...>
> Subject: Re: handcyclists Redlands
> To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 9:03 PM
> i'll think about going if you push me up the hill.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Geoff Hopkins <pvasports@...>
> To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:39:14 PM
> Subject: handcyclists Redlands
>
>
>
> Who's going to the Redland's Bicycle Classic?  Neil
> Harding? Gerard Ahfook?  Rick Gilliland?
>
> Anyone else?
>
> Geoff Hopkins
>
> "Madcycling through Virginia"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I might be able to do that :)   Where are you living now?  Not in Colorado
right?  How's off-road handcycling going? Still really enjoying it?  I
am...yesterday I got so stuck on a hill because of the mud I got my rear tire
completely covered...it kept slipping and I thought I'd never make it up the
hill :)  After going backwards back down hill two or three times I was able to
make a good run at it and finally made it :)  It was so awesome!

Also, I decided to put Avid BB7's all the way around with 185 discs on
front..more braking power.  Then I also added a SRAM 9-speed X-9 derailleur with
an X-9 trigger shifter....I really like the upgrades.

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"


--- On Tue, 2/3/09, Jake OConnor <kchandcycle@...> wrote:

> From: Jake OConnor <kchandcycle@...>
> Subject: Re: handcyclists Redlands
> To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 9:03 PM
> i'll think about going if you push me up the hill.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Geoff Hopkins <pvasports@...>
> To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:39:14 PM
> Subject: handcyclists Redlands
>
>
>
> Who's going to the Redland's Bicycle Classic?  Neil
> Harding? Gerard Ahfook?  Rick Gilliland?
>
> Anyone else?
>
> Geoff Hopkins
>
> "Madcycling through Virginia"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i'll think about going if you push me up the hill.




________________________________
From: Geoff Hopkins <pvasports@...>
To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 3:39:14 PM
Subject: handcyclists Redlands



Who's going to the Redland's Bicycle Classic?  Neil Harding? Gerard Ahfook? 
Rick Gilliland?

Anyone else?

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Who's going to the Redland's Bicycle Classic?  Neil Harding? Gerard Ahfook? 
Rick Gilliland?

Anyone else?


Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"

a buddy of mine from care cure forums has been waiting to be approved
for this group

his email is mtharney@...


Thanks

Brock

Please check out the new message board for handcycling-

http://es4.pva.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=7

You can cut and paste the URL above or just go to www.pva.org  and go the Sports
and Recreation to find the "Message Board" tab on the right.

This is a developing message board so please continue to look back for more
information.  Also, hopefully beginning tomorrow we will have PVA Fitness pages
up in the Sports and Recreation area which will include info on handcycling, HC
racing with photos and results as well as off-road handcycling and other fitness
endeavors.  It's not only for veterans.

Also, feel free to post whatever you would like regarding fitness events.

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"

>>> Alexander Meller <alexander.meller@...> 1/14/2009 5:28 PM >>>
Team,

I came across a sale Toyota United is having; I believe they are liquidating
everything as the team is shutting down.  Bikes, Shimano, helmets,
sunglasses, seatposts, bars, and much more.  See:

http://www.toyota-united.com/downloads/inventory.htm

Download the spreadsheet (link at bottom of instructions), and make bids on
anything you are interested in by updating the spreadsheet and e-mailing it
back.  As the instructions at the page above say:
"*In general, offers of 25% off the retail prices listed in the spreadsheet
for NEW equipment or 50% off of USED equipment have been accepted."*

Does anyone have any phone numbers for Ken Archer? I need to call him.  Thx

Does anyone know how Keane is doing?  I heard the other day that he was in the
hospital.  Anyone have any info.  Hope he's ok!

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"

Nice slideshow

Brian
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Geoff Hopkins
   To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:39 PM
   Subject: handcyclists New York City Marathon 2008



   In case anyone is interested, here is a slideshow of the New York City
Marathon-2008.

   www.dolphindancephotography.com/2008NYMarathonSlideshowDVD/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Ken!  Good luck with all of those beautiful cats

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"

--- On Fri, 12/19/08, KARCHER235@... <KARCHER235@...> wrote:

From: KARCHER235@... <KARCHER235@...>
Subject: Re: handcyclists 2009 Top End - PVA Handcycle Clinic and Product Tour
To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 2:01 PM









Hey Geoff - Good Luck with your racing.

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Hopkins <pvasports@yahoo. com>
To: handcyclists@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 1:23 pm
Subject: handcyclists 2009 Top End - PVA Handcycle Clinic and Product Tour

2009 Top End - PVA

Handcycle Clinic and Product Tour

January 8, 2009

James A. Haley VA Hospital

SCI Center-Middle Dining Room

Tampa, Florida

Clinician Session (OT, PT, RT, KT)

9 a.m. to 12 noon

Product Demonstration and Trials

(Veterans, Clinicians and others)

1 p.m. to 4 p.m.

To register and for more information

contact:

Jennifer Day, CTRS

jennifer.day2@ va.gov

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In case anyone is interested, here is a slideshow of the New York City
Marathon-2008.

www.dolphindancephotography.com/2008NYMarathonSlideshowDVD/

Hey Geoff - Good Luck with your racing.




-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Hopkins <pvasports@...>
To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 1:23 pm
Subject: handcyclists 2009 Top End - PVA Handcycle Clinic and Product Tour



























2009 Top End - PVA

Handcycle Clinic and Product Tour



January 8, 2009





James A. Haley VA Hospital

SCI Center-Middle Dining Room

Tampa, Florida



Clinician Session (OT, PT, RT, KT)

9 a.m. to 12 noon



Product Demonstration and Trials

(Veterans, Clinicians and others)

1 p.m. to 4 p.m.



To register and for more information

contact:



Jennifer Day, CTRS

jennifer.day2@...





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

2009 Top End - PVA
Handcycle Clinic and Product Tour

January 8, 2009


James A. Haley VA Hospital
SCI Center-Middle Dining Room
Tampa, Florida

Clinician Session (OT, PT, RT, KT)
9 a.m. to 12 noon

Product Demonstration and Trials
(Veterans, Clinicians and others)
1 p.m. to 4 p.m.

To register and for more information
contact:

Jennifer Day, CTRS
jennifer.day2@...

As part of the 2009 Fitness Program here at PVA National Office, we would like
to take five (5) PVA members or other disabled veterans to compete in the
*handcycle* division of the Miami Marathon on January 25 in Miami, Florida.  PVA
will pay for the marathon entry fee and housing for the 5 participants; may also
provide food as well.  Each participant will be responsible for getting
himself/herself to Miami.  Each one will be provided with a PVA Racing Team
jersey.

Anyone interested can contact me at 202.416.7736 or geoffh@...

Thanks!

whats the plan up in wichita for 2009? Whens the winter workshop?

regards

Brock

hey geoff, not sure i'll make it but would like too.  it sounds like the talent
there is going to be huge, and i'd be lucky to finish a marathon right now...but
good luck. 

good luck to all that show up.

jake




________________________________
From: Geoff Hopkins <pvasports@...>
To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:15:43 PM
Subject: Re: handcyclists miami marathon?


I'll be there! Jake- you bringing your one-off?

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@ comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@ comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: handcyclists miami marathon?
> To: handcyclists@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:28 PM
> They had 34 riders/racers in the Miami Marathon last
> year...a pretty good turn out....with several very good
> racers.....Alejandr o Albor won it last year. I plan on
> going and racing in the Miami Marathon, which takes place on
> 1/25/9. Jake, or anyone else interested, try and make it if
> you can.....it should be fun.....and warm!!!
>
> Brian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jake OConnor
> To: handcyclists@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:46 PM
> Subject: handcyclists miami marathon?
>
>
> hey, i heard the Miami marathon had a few riders last
> year and was a great race. is anyone thinking about
> entering this year???
>
> jake
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Brian/Gina Mitchell
> <mitchellbgrr@ comcast.net>
> To: "pilon, dane"
> <dane.pilon@hotmail. com>; handcyclists@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 7:36:22 PM
> Subject: handcyclists Some 12/7/8 Palm Beach Marathon
> Results
>
> MENs
> 1 Dane Pilon 48 Fayetteville NC 1:16:39 2:56
> 2 Chris Ayres 38 League City TX 1:27:58 3:22
> 3 Keane West 40 Lake Placid FL 1:32:40 3:33
> 4 Chad Watson 25 Mt. Zion IL 1:36:32 3:41
> 5 Carlos Guzman 61 Carona NY 1:40:04 3:49
> 6 Rob Leiser 53 Nazareth PA 1:41:14 3:52
> 7 Fain Grogg 43 Johnson City TN 1:52:19 4:18
> 8 Tim Gustafson 99 New York NY 1:59:29 4:34
> 9 John Devine 59 Massapegua NY 2:02:50 4:42
> 10 Juan Carlos Gil 27 Miami FL 2:02:59 4:42
>
> WOMENs
> 1 Melynda Baker 40 Elburn IL 1:45:50 4:03
> 2 Michele Davis 57 Okeechobee FL 4:29:37 10:17
>
> Dane....that was a fantastic time!
> Melynda, I do not know you or know if you are a kneeler
> or longseat.... but.....fast time as well!
>
> Brian
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Geoff.
All Right!!  Geoff, I heard that you were bringing some Vets too...that would be
great as well. Chris Ayres has been hitting alot of races lately, maybe he will
be there too.  Keane said he was going.  Hopefully Alejandro Albor, Chris
Peterson, and Scott McNeice and all of last year's racers will be there again. 
I know several longseat guys that raced in Indy are debating about going.

Brian


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Geoff Hopkins
   To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:15 PM
   Subject: Re: handcyclists miami marathon?


   I'll be there! Jake- you bringing your one-off?

   Geoff Hopkins

   "Madcycling through Virginia"

   --- On Wed, 12/10/08, Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@...> wrote:

   > From: Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@...>
   > Subject: Re: handcyclists miami marathon?
   > To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
   > Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:28 PM
   > They had 34 riders/racers in the Miami Marathon last
   > year...a pretty good turn out....with several very good
   > racers.....Alejandro Albor won it last year. I plan on
   > going and racing in the Miami Marathon, which takes place on
   > 1/25/9. Jake, or anyone else interested, try and make it if
   > you can.....it should be fun.....and warm!!!
   >
   > Brian
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Jake OConnor
   > To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:46 PM
   > Subject: handcyclists miami marathon?
   >
   >
   > hey, i heard the Miami marathon had a few riders last
   > year and was a great race. is anyone thinking about
   > entering this year???
   >
   > jake
   >
   > ________________________________
   > From: Brian/Gina Mitchell
   > <mitchellbgrr@...>
   > To: "pilon, dane"
   > <dane.pilon@...>; handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 7:36:22 PM
   > Subject: handcyclists Some 12/7/8 Palm Beach Marathon
   > Results
   >
   > MENs
   > 1 Dane Pilon 48 Fayetteville NC 1:16:39 2:56
   > 2 Chris Ayres 38 League City TX 1:27:58 3:22
   > 3 Keane West 40 Lake Placid FL 1:32:40 3:33
   > 4 Chad Watson 25 Mt. Zion IL 1:36:32 3:41
   > 5 Carlos Guzman 61 Carona NY 1:40:04 3:49
   > 6 Rob Leiser 53 Nazareth PA 1:41:14 3:52
   > 7 Fain Grogg 43 Johnson City TN 1:52:19 4:18
   > 8 Tim Gustafson 99 New York NY 1:59:29 4:34
   > 9 John Devine 59 Massapegua NY 2:02:50 4:42
   > 10 Juan Carlos Gil 27 Miami FL 2:02:59 4:42
   >
   > WOMENs
   > 1 Melynda Baker 40 Elburn IL 1:45:50 4:03
   > 2 Michele Davis 57 Okeechobee FL 4:29:37 10:17
   >
   > Dane....that was a fantastic time!
   > Melynda, I do not know you or know if you are a kneeler
   > or longseat.... but.....fast time as well!
   >
   > Brian
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll be there!  Jake- you bringing your one-off?

Geoff Hopkins

"Madcycling through Virginia"


--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@...> wrote:

> From: Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@...>
> Subject: Re: handcyclists miami marathon?
> To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 8:28 PM
> They had 34 riders/racers in the Miami Marathon last
> year...a pretty good turn out....with several very good
> racers.....Alejandro Albor won it last year.  I plan on
> going and racing in the Miami Marathon, which takes place on
> 1/25/9.  Jake, or anyone else interested, try and make it if
> you can.....it should be fun.....and warm!!!
>
> Brian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jake OConnor
>   To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:46 PM
>   Subject: handcyclists miami marathon?
>
>
>   hey, i heard the Miami marathon had a few riders last
> year and was a great race.  is anyone thinking about
> entering this year???
>
>   jake
>
>   ________________________________
>   From: Brian/Gina Mitchell
> <mitchellbgrr@...>
>   To: "pilon, dane"
> <dane.pilon@...>; handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 7:36:22 PM
>   Subject: handcyclists Some 12/7/8 Palm Beach Marathon
> Results
>
>   MENs
>   1 Dane Pilon 48 Fayetteville NC 1:16:39 2:56
>   2 Chris Ayres 38 League City TX 1:27:58 3:22
>   3 Keane West 40 Lake Placid FL 1:32:40 3:33
>   4 Chad Watson 25 Mt. Zion IL 1:36:32 3:41
>   5 Carlos Guzman 61 Carona NY 1:40:04 3:49
>   6 Rob Leiser 53 Nazareth PA 1:41:14 3:52
>   7 Fain Grogg 43 Johnson City TN 1:52:19 4:18
>   8 Tim Gustafson 99 New York NY 1:59:29 4:34
>   9 John Devine 59 Massapegua NY 2:02:50 4:42
>   10 Juan Carlos Gil 27 Miami FL 2:02:59 4:42
>
>   WOMENs
>   1 Melynda Baker 40 Elburn IL 1:45:50 4:03
>   2 Michele Davis 57 Okeechobee FL 4:29:37 10:17
>
>   Dane....that was a fantastic time!
>   Melynda, I do not know you or know if you are a kneeler
> or longseat.... but.....fast time as well!
>
>   Brian
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They had 34 riders/racers in the Miami Marathon last year...a pretty good turn
out....with several very good racers.....Alejandro Albor won it last year.  I
plan on going and racing in the Miami Marathon, which takes place on 1/25/9. 
Jake, or anyone else interested, try and make it if you can.....it should be
fun.....and warm!!!

Brian

----- Original Message -----
   From: Jake OConnor
   To: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:46 PM
   Subject: handcyclists miami marathon?


   hey, i heard the Miami marathon had a few riders last year and was a great
race.  is anyone thinking about entering this year???

   jake

   ________________________________
   From: Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@...>
   To: "pilon, dane" <dane.pilon@...>; handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 7:36:22 PM
   Subject: handcyclists Some 12/7/8 Palm Beach Marathon Results

   MENs
   1 Dane Pilon 48 Fayetteville NC 1:16:39 2:56
   2 Chris Ayres 38 League City TX 1:27:58 3:22
   3 Keane West 40 Lake Placid FL 1:32:40 3:33
   4 Chad Watson 25 Mt. Zion IL 1:36:32 3:41
   5 Carlos Guzman 61 Carona NY 1:40:04 3:49
   6 Rob Leiser 53 Nazareth PA 1:41:14 3:52
   7 Fain Grogg 43 Johnson City TN 1:52:19 4:18
   8 Tim Gustafson 99 New York NY 1:59:29 4:34
   9 John Devine 59 Massapegua NY 2:02:50 4:42
   10 Juan Carlos Gil 27 Miami FL 2:02:59 4:42

   WOMENs
   1 Melynda Baker 40 Elburn IL 1:45:50 4:03
   2 Michele Davis 57 Okeechobee FL 4:29:37 10:17

   Dane....that was a fantastic time!
   Melynda, I do not know you or know if you are a kneeler or longseat....
but.....fast time as well!

   Brian

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hey, i heard the Miami marathon had a few riders last year and was a great
race.  is anyone thinking about entering this year???

jake




________________________________
From: Brian/Gina Mitchell <mitchellbgrr@...>
To: "pilon, dane" <dane.pilon@...>; handcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 7:36:22 PM
Subject: handcyclists Some 12/7/8 Palm Beach Marathon Results


MENs
1 Dane Pilon 48 Fayetteville NC 1:16:39 2:56
2 Chris Ayres 38 League City TX 1:27:58 3:22
3 Keane West 40 Lake Placid FL 1:32:40 3:33
4 Chad Watson 25 Mt. Zion IL 1:36:32 3:41
5 Carlos Guzman 61 Carona NY 1:40:04 3:49
6 Rob Leiser 53 Nazareth PA 1:41:14 3:52
7 Fain Grogg 43 Johnson City TN 1:52:19 4:18
8 Tim Gustafson 99 New York NY 1:59:29 4:34
9 John Devine 59 Massapegua NY 2:02:50 4:42
10 Juan Carlos Gil 27 Miami FL 2:02:59 4:42

WOMENs
1 Melynda Baker 40 Elburn IL 1:45:50 4:03
2 Michele Davis 57 Okeechobee FL 4:29:37 10:17

Dane....that was a fantastic time!
Melynda, I do not know you or know if you are a kneeler or longseat....
but.....fast time as well!

Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MENs
1 Dane Pilon              48 Fayetteville NC       1:16:39  2:56
2 Chris Ayres             38 League City TX        1:27:58  3:22
3 Keane West              40 Lake Placid FL        1:32:40  3:33
4 Chad Watson             25 Mt. Zion IL           1:36:32  3:41
5 Carlos Guzman           61 Carona NY             1:40:04  3:49
6 Rob Leiser              53 Nazareth PA           1:41:14  3:52
7 Fain Grogg              43 Johnson City TN       1:52:19  4:18
8 Tim Gustafson           99 New York NY           1:59:29  4:34
9 John Devine             59 Massapegua NY         2:02:50  4:42
10 Juan Carlos Gil         27 Miami FL              2:02:59  4:42

WOMENs
1 Melynda Baker           40 Elburn IL             1:45:50  4:03
2 Michele Davis           57 Okeechobee FL         4:29:37 10:17

Dane....that was a fantastic time!
Melynda, I do not know you or know if you are a kneeler or
longseat....but.....fast time as well!

Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've got a few questions for handcyclists living in or around the areas of San
Diego, San
Antonio, Chicago and Washington, DC-

1. If an organization provided a handcycling training program 3 times per week
in or
around your area, would you participate?  The program would include beginner
skills,
intermediate skills and some advanced skills.

2. Would you need an incentive to participate in such a program?  If so, what
kind of
incentive?

3. Do you currently participate in either a handcycling program 3 times a week
or another
wheelchair sport 3 times a week?   If so, which program?

4. Even if you do not participate in any programs 3 times a week, do you know of
any?  If
so, what programs?

5. Tell me if you are a veteran or non-veteran.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, they can be very important to
the
future of handcycling.

You can reply to me at pvasports@... or at geoffh@...

Geoff

To those who received the spam FW chain letter,

I'd like to apologize to all whom received the forwarded chain letter:

Subject:
                               7 yr old with Cancer (this child is
                               local)

Hi, my name is Amy Bruce. I am 7
                               years old, and I have a large tumour on my brain
                               and severe lung cancer. The doctors say I
                               will die soon if this isn't fixed, and my
                               family can't pay the bills.  'The Make A Wish
                               Foundation' has agreed to donate 7 cents
                               for every
  tim e this message is
                               sent on. For those of you who send this along, I
                               thank you so much.  But for those who don't
                               send it, I will still pray for you. Please, if you
                               are a kind person, have a heart.  Please,
                               please, PLEASE HIT THE FORWARD
                               BUTTON
 


                               Thank
                               You
Amy
                               Bruce
It seems the computer i was using to check my email had a virus on it and
forwarded every email i received to my full address book instead of too the Make
a wish foundation. this is a hoax email that has been going around since 1999.
so sorry about that.

Ally

information on the hoax can be found here.
http://www.wish.org/about/chain_letters




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- On Sun, 11/16/08, jbernius <jbernius@...> wrote:
From: jbernius <jbernius@...>
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles Louisiana]
To: TYGERBAM@..., "Dominick Stoll" <dstoll4@...>, "Cindy Sanford"
<luvvy64@...>, SamJMcGrew@..., "Marcell Rodriguez"
<rodri200@...>, "Tammy Millet" <Ttammy1432@...>, "David McCann"
<dmccann@...>, Leahwestwego@..., "Chris Haar"
<chrishaar60@...>, "Carolyn Haar" <cmhaar@...>, "Allyson Haar"
<allycat70001@...>, "Blaine Fury" <fury_b@...>, "Father Luke"
<frlukecm@...>, "sherri eck" <ecksherri@...>, "Carol d'Aquin"
<csoutherland2@...>, "Craig Collongues" <collonguescraig@...>,
"sheila butler" <rjbutlerpt@...>, "Paul Butler"
<pdbutler21@...>, "Kristen Butler" <blueeyes72280@...>, "Brian
Butler" <brian@...>, "jonathan bernius" <airb23@...>,
"David Bernius" <davidbernius@...>, B8jj@...
Date: Sunday, November 16, 2008, 5:12 PM






 
----- Original Message -----
From: Debbie Waltz

To: John Bernius ; momseven@...
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 4:44 PM
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles
Louisiana]


 


-----Original Message-----
From: maryloubou@...
Sent: Sat, 8
Nov 2008 16:38:29 -0600
To: dwaltz57@...
Subject: Fw:
[Fwd: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles Louisiana]




 
----- Original Message -----
From: Joann Chandler

To: rebecca zeringue ; Teressa Lofton
Williamson ; Pfeiffer_reno@... ; marilyn ; MANDY ; Maddy29@... ;
hoochie ; Johnny Hayes ; Carol
Hayes ; gina
hammonds ; Kelli Flanagan ; SHANNA
COOPER ; brandy ; MARY BOURGEOIS ; BETH ; kelli bell

Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles
Louisiana]


 
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark

To: Annie Price ; Barbara &
JL ; Diane ; Chris & Liz ; Leland ; Valine ; Carolyn ; P.
Dianne ; S & F ; Frances ; JoAnn Chandler

Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 11:04 AM
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles
Louisiana]


 
----- Original Message -----
From: annie_price@...
To: mary honshul ; Debbie
Curtis ; Mark Chandler ; Charles
Cazes Jr
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:45 AM
Subject: FW: [Fwd: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles
Louisiana]



 
--------------
   Forwarded Message: --------------
From: Joe Stano <joe@...>
To:
   undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: [Fwd: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From
   Lake Charles Louisiana]
Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:27:28 +0000




--------
   Original Message --------


       Subject:
       FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles Louisiana

       Date:
       Wed, 5 Nov 2008 20:23:09 -0600

       From:
       John Mestayer <john3378@...>

       Reply-To:
       <john3378@...>

       To:
       John Mestayer <john3378@...>



    




   : Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:08 PM

   Subject: FW: 7 years old with Cancer From Lake Charles
   Louisiana





        

        

          

           ]










Subject: FW: 7 years old with
           Cancer From Lake Charles Louisiana








           s
           Louisiana




























                               Subject: 
                               7 yr old with Cancer




 



 
Subject:
                               7 yr old with Cancer (this child is
                               local)

Hi, my name is Amy Bruce. I am 7
                               years old, and I have a large tumour on my brain
                               and severe lung cancer. The doctors say I
                               will
die soon if this isn't fixed, and my
                               family can't pay the bills.  'The Make A Wish
                               Foundation' has agreed to donate 7 cents
                               for
every
  tim e this message is
                               sent on. For those of you who send this along, I
                               thank you so much.  But for those who don't
                               send it, I will still pray for you. Please, if you
                               are a kind person, have a heart.  Please,
                               please, PLEASE HIT THE FORWARD
                               BUTTON
 


                               Thank
                               You
Amy
                               Bruce



 









                                  




 


                           









 




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

see here

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/handcyclists/message/5921

for my review of the Shark S

Patrick

--- In handcyclists@yahoogroups.com, "Craig Cornwall"
<rodrenaissance@...> wrote:
>
> Anyone out there got any opinions on a Schmicking vs a Force or a
Shark S.
> interested in all input available.
>
> Thanks, Craig
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Don't forget to check out the offerings from Freedom Ryder.  They have
a really nice and refined FRH-1.

Craig

Anyone out there got any opinions on a Schmicking vs a Force or a Shark S.
interested in all input available.

Thanks, Craig



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Craig,



I think you've mistaken this group as a political blog. I did not register
with this group to get political opinions. If I want political opinions I
have many choices available to me. Please find a more appropriate forum for
this kind of posting.





The Clarkster's

TimMurielWoodyCooper

      In remembrance - KittyFred



   _____

From: handcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Craig Blanchette
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:29 AM
Subject: handcyclists Pro-Life and considering Obama? Please read or listen
to the info below.



If you want to listen to a Podcast (Stand To Reason) that talks about
this and many other theological topics click here: http://www.strcast.
<http://www.strcast.org/podcast/weekly/101908.m3u>
org/podcast/weekly/101908.m3u

This is the where the article came from: http://www.thepubli
<http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/viewarticle.php?selectedarticle=2008.10.1
4_George_Robert_Obama>
cdiscourse.com/viewarticle.php?selectedarticle=2008.10.14_George_Robert_Obam
a's%20Abortion%20Extremism_.xml

And here is the article in print form.

Craig....

Obama's Abortion Extremism
by Robert George
Oct 14, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama's views on life issues ranging from abortion to
embryonic stem cell research mark him as not merely a pro-choice
politician, but rather as the most extreme pro-abortion candidate to
have ever run on a major party ticket.

Barack Obama is the most extreme pro-abortion candidate ever to seek
the office of President of the United States. He is the most extreme
pro-abortion member of the United States Senate. Indeed, he is the
most extreme pro-abortion legislator ever to serve in either house of
the United States Congress.

Yet there are Catholics and Evangelicals-even self-identified pro-life
Catholics and Evangelicals - who aggressively promote Obama's
candidacy and even declare him the preferred candidate from the pro-
life point of view.

What is going on here?

I have examined the arguments advanced by Obama's self-identified pro-
life supporters, and they are spectacularly weak. It is nearly
unfathomable to me that those advancing them can honestly believe what
they are saying. But before proving my claims about Obama's abortion
extremism, let me explain why I have described Obama as "pro-abortion"
rather than "pro-choice."

According to the standard argument for the distinction between these
labels,nobody is pro-abortion. Everybody would prefer a world without
abortions. After all, what woman would deliberately get pregnant just
to have an abortion? But given the world as it is, sometimes women
find themselves with unplanned pregnancies at times in their lives
when having a baby would present significant problems for them. So
even if abortion is not medically required, it should be permitted,
made as widely available as possible and, when necessary, paid for
with taxpayers' money.

The defect in this argument can easily be brought into focus if we
shift to the moral question that vexed an earlier generation of
Americans: slavery. Many people at the time of the American founding
would have preferred a world without slavery but nonetheless opposed
abolition. Such people - Thomas Jefferson was one - reasoned that,
given the world as it was, with slavery woven into the fabric of
society just as it had often been throughout history, the economic
consequences of abolition for society as a whole and for owners of
plantations and other businesses that relied on slave labor would be
dire. Many people who argued in this way were not monsters but honest
and sincere, albeit profoundly mistaken. Some (though not Jefferson)
showed their personal opposition to slavery by declining to own slaves
themselves or freeing slaves whom they had purchased or inherited.
They certainly didn't think anyone should be forced to own slaves.
Still, they maintained that slavery should remain a legally permitted
option and be given constitutional protection.

Would we describe such people, not as pro-slavery, but as "pro-
choice"? Of course we would not. It wouldn't matter to us that they
were "personally opposed" to slavery, or that they wished that slavery
were "unnecessary," or that they wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to
own slaves. We would hoot at the faux sophistication of a placard that
said "Against slavery? Don't own one." We would observe that the
fundamental divide is between people who believe that law and public
power should permit slavery, and those who think that owning slaves is
an unjust choice that should be prohibited.

Just for the sake of argument, though, let us assume that there could
be a morally meaningful distinction between being "pro-abortion" and
being "pro-choice." Who would qualify for the latter description?
Barack Obama certainly would not. For, unlike his running mate Joe
Biden, Obama does not think that abortion is a purely private choice
that public authority should refrain from getting involved in. Now,
Senator Biden is hardly pro-life. He believes that the killing of the
unborn should be legally permitted and relatively unencumbered. But
unlike Obama, at least Biden has sometimes opposed using taxpayer
dollars to fund abortion, thereby leaving Americans free to choose not
to implicate themselves in it. If we stretch things to create a
meaningful category called "pro-choice," then Biden might be a
plausible candidate for the label; at least on occasions when he
respects your choice or mine not to facilitate deliberate feticide.

The same cannot be said for Barack Obama. For starters, he supports
legislation that would repeal the Hyde Amendment, which protects pro-
life citizens from having to pay for abortions that are not necessary
to save the life of the mother and are not the result of rape or
incest. The abortion industry laments that this longstanding federal
law, according to the pro-abortion group NARAL, "forces about half the
women who would otherwise have abortions to carry unintended
pregnancies to term and bear children against their wishes instead."
In other words, a whole lot of people who are alive today would have
been exterminatedin utero were it not for the Hyde Amendment. Obama
has promised to reverse the situation so that abortions that the
industry complains are not happening (because the federal government
is not subsidizing them) would happen. That is why people who profit
from abortion love Obama even more than they do his running mate.

But this barely scratches the surface of Obama's extremism. He has
promised that "the first thing I'd do as President is sign the Freedom
of Choice Act" (known as FOCA). This proposed legislation would create
a federally guaranteed "fundamental right" to abortion through all
nine months of pregnancy, including, as Cardinal Justin Rigali of
Philadelphia has noted in a statement condemning the proposed Act, "a
right to abort a fully developed child in the final weeks for
undefined 'health' reasons." In essence, FOCA would abolish virtually
every existing state and federal limitation on abortion, including
parental consent and notification laws for minors, state and federal
funding restrictions on abortion, and conscience protections for pro-
life citizens working in the health-care industry-protections against
being forced to participate in the practice of abortion or else lose
their jobs. The pro-abortion National Organization for Women has
proclaimed with approval that FOCA would "sweep away hundreds of anti-
abortion laws [and] policies."

It gets worse. Obama, unlike even many "pro-choice" legislators,
opposed the ban on partial-birth abortions when he served in the
Illinois legislature and condemned the Supreme Court decision that
upheld legislation banning this heinous practice. He has referred to a
baby conceived inadvertently by a young woman as a"punishment" that
she should not endure. He has stated that women's equalityrequires
access to abortion on demand. Appallingly, he wishes to strip federal
funding from pro-life crisis pregnancy centers that provide
alternatives to abortion for pregnant women in need. There is
certainly nothing "pro-choice" about that.

But it gets even worse. Senator Obama, despite the urging of pro-life
members of his own party, has not endorsed or offered support for the
Pregnant Women Support Act, the signature bill of Democrats for Life,
meant to reduce abortions by providing assistance for women facing
crisis pregnancies. In fact, Obama hasopposed key provisions of the
Act, including providing coverage of unborn children in the State
Children's Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP), and informed consent for
women about the effects of abortion and the gestational age of their
child. This legislation would not make a single abortion illegal. It
simply seeks to make it easier for pregnant women to make the choice
not to abort their babies. Here is a concrete test of whether Obama is
"pro-choice" rather than pro-abortion. He flunked. Even Senator Edward
Kennedy voted to include coverage of unborn children in S-CHIP. But
Barack Obama stood resolutely with the most stalwart abortion
advocates in opposing it.

It gets worse yet. In an act of breathtaking injustice which the Obama
campaign lied about until critics produced documentary proof of what
he had done, as an Illinois state senator Obama opposed legislation to
protect children who are born alive, either as a result of an
abortionist's unsuccessful effort to kill them in the womb, or by the
deliberate delivery of the baby prior to viability. This legislation
would not have banned any abortions. Indeed, it included a specific
provision ensuring that it did not affect abortion laws. (This is one
of the points Obama and his campaign lied about until they were
caught.) The federal version of the bill passed unanimously in the
United States Senate, winning the support of such ardent advocates of
legal abortion as John Kerry and Barbara Boxer. But Barack Obama
opposed it and worked to defeat it. For him, a child marked for
abortion gets no protection-even ordinary medical or comfort care-even
if she is born alive and entirely separated from her mother. So Obama
has favored protecting what is literally a form of infanticide.

You may be thinking, it can't get worse than that. But it does.

For several years, Americans have been debating the use for biomedical
research of embryos produced by in vitro fertilization (originally for
reproductive purposes) but now left in a frozen condition in
cryopreservation units. President Bush has restricted the use of
federal funds for stem-cell research of the type that makes use of
these embryos and destroys them in the process. I support the
President's restriction, but some legislators with excellent pro-life
records, including John McCain, argue that the use of federal money
should be permitted where the embryos are going to be discarded or die
anyway as the result of the parents' decision. Senator Obama, too,
wants to lift the restriction.

But Obama would not stop there. He has co-sponsored a bill-strongly
opposed by McCain-that would authorize the large-scale industrial
production of human embryos for use in biomedical research in which
they would be killed. In fact, the bill Obama co-sponsored would
effectively require the killing of human beings in the embryonic stage
that were produced by cloning. It would make it a federal crime for a
woman to save an embryo by agreeing to have the tiny developing human
being implanted in her womb so that he or she could be brought to
term. This "clone and kill" bill would, if enacted, bring something to
America that has heretofore existed only in China-the equivalent of
legally mandated abortion. In an audacious act of deceit, Obama and
his co-sponsors misleadingly call this ananti-cloning bill. But it is
nothing of the kind. What it bans is not cloning, but allowing the
embryonic children produced by cloning to survive.

Can it get still worse? Yes.

Decent people of every persuasion hold out the increasingly realistic
hope of resolving the moral issue surrounding embryonic stem-cell
research by developing methods to produce the exact equivalent of
embryonic stem cells without using (or producing) embryos. But when a
bill was introduced in the United States Senate to put a modest amount
of federal money into research to develop these methods, Barack Obama
was one of the few senators who opposed it. From any rational vantage
point, this is unconscionable. Why would someone not wish to find a
method of producing the pluripotent cells scientists want that all
Americans could enthusiastically endorse? Why create and kill human
embryos when there are alternatives that do not require the taking of
nascent human lives? It is as if Obama is opposed to stem-cell
research unless it involves killing human embryos.

This ultimate manifestation of Obama's extremism brings us back to the
puzzle of his pro-life Catholic and Evangelical apologists.

They typically do not deny the facts I have reported. They could not;
each one is a matter of public record. But despite Obama's injustices
against the most vulnerable human beings, and despite the
extraordinary support he receives from the industry that profits from
killing the unborn (which should be a good indicator of where he
stands), some Obama supporters insist that he is the better candidate
from the pro-life point of view.

They say that his economic and social policies would so diminish the
demand for abortion that the overall number would actually go down-
despite the federal subsidizing of abortion and the elimination of
hundreds of pro-life laws. The way to save lots of unborn babies, they
say, is to vote for the pro-abortion-oops! "pro-choice"-candidate.
They tell us not to worry that Obama opposes the Hyde Amendment, the
Mexico City Policy (against funding abortion abroad), parental consent
and notification laws, conscience protections, and the funding of
alternatives to embryo-destructive research. They ask us to look past
his support for Roe v. Wade, the Freedom of Choice Act, partial-birth
abortion, and human cloning and embryo-killing. An Obama presidency,
they insist, means less killing of the unborn.

This is delusional.

We know that the federal and state pro-life laws and policies that
Obama has promised to sweep away (and that John McCain would protect)
save thousands of lives every year. Studies conducted by Professor
Michael New and other social scientists have removed any doubt. Often
enough, the abortion lobby itself confirms the truth of what these
scholars have determined. Tom McClusky has observed that Planned
Parenthood's own statistics show that in each of the seven states that
have FOCA-type legislation on the books, "abortion rates have
increased while the national rate has decreased." In Maryland, where a
bill similar to the one favored by Obama was enacted in 1991, he notes
that "abortion rates have increased by 8 percent while the overall
national abortion rate decreased by 9 percent." No one is really
surprised. After all, the message clearly conveyed by policies such as
those Obama favors is that abortion is a legitimate solution to the
problem of unwanted pregnancies - so clearly legitimate that taxpayers
should be forced to pay for it.

But for a moment let's suppose, against all the evidence, that Obama's
proposalswould reduce the number of abortions, even while subsidizing
the killing with taxpayer dollars. Even so, many more unborn human
beings would likely be killed under Obama than under McCain. A
Congress controlled by strong Democratic majorities under Harry Reid
and Nancy Pelosi would enact the bill authorizing the mass industrial
production of human embryos by cloning for research in which they are
killed. As president, Obama would sign it. The number of tiny humans
created and killed under this legislation (assuming that an efficient
human cloning technique is soon perfected) could dwarf the number of
lives saved as a result of the reduced demand for abortion-even if we
take a delusionally optimistic view of what that number would be.

Barack Obama and John McCain differ on many important issues about
which reasonable people of goodwill, including pro-life Americans of
every faith, disagree: how best to fight international terrorism, how
to restore economic growth and prosperity, how to distribute the tax
burden and reduce poverty, etc.

But on abortion and the industrial creation of embryos for destructive
research, there is a profound difference of moral principle, not just
prudence. These questions reveal the character and judgment of each
man. Barack Obama is deeply committed to the belief that members of an
entire class of human beings have no rights that others must respect.
Across the spectrum of pro-life concerns for the unborn, he would deny
these small and vulnerable members of the human family the basic
protection of the laws. Over the next four to eight years, as many as
five or even six U.S. Supreme Court justices could retire. Obama
enthusiastically supports Roe v. Wade and would appoint judges who
would protect that morally and constitutionally disastrous decision
and even expand its scope. Indeed, in an interview in Glamour
magazine, he made it clear that he would apply a litmus test for
Supreme Court nominations: jurists who do not support Roe will not be
considered for appointment by Obama. John McCain, by contrast, opposes
Roe and would appoint judges likely to overturn it. This would not
make abortion illegal, but it would return the issue to the forums of
democratic deliberation, where pro-life Americans could engage in a
fair debate to persuade fellow citizens that killing the unborn is no
way to address the problems of pregnant women in need.

What kind of America do we want our beloved nation to be? Barack
Obama's America is one in which being human just isn't enough to
warrant care and protection. It is an America where the unborn may
legitimately be killed without legal restriction, even by the grisly
practice of partial-birth abortion. It is an America where a baby who
survives abortion is not even entitled to comfort care as she dies on
a stainless steel table or in a soiled linen bin. It is a nation in
which some members of the human family are regarded as inferior and
others superior in fundamental dignity and rights. In Obama's America,
public policy would make a mockery of the great constitutional
principle of the equal protection of the law. In perhaps the most
telling comment made by any candidate in either party in this election
year, Senator Obama, when asked by Rick Warren when a baby gets human
rights, replied: "that question is above my pay grade." It was a
profoundly disingenuous answer: For even at a state senator's pay
grade, Obama presumed to answer that question with blind certainty.
His unspoken answer then, as now, is chilling: human beings have no
rights until infancy - and if they are unwanted survivors of attempted
abortions, not even then.

In the end, the efforts of Obama's apologists to depict their man as
the true pro-life candidate that Catholics and Evangelicals may and
even should vote for, doesn't even amount to a nice try. Voting for
the most extreme pro-abortion political candidate in American history
is not the way to save unborn babies.

Robert P. George is McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence and Director
of the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions at
Princeton University. He is a member of the President's Council on
Bioethics and previously served on the United States Commission on
Civil Rights. He sits on the editorial board of Public Discourse.

Copyright 2008 The Witherspoon Institute. All rights reserved.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you want to listen to a Podcast (Stand To Reason) that talks about
this and many other theological topics click here:
http://www.strcast.org/podcast/weekly/101908.m3u

This is the where the article came from: 
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/viewarticle.php?selectedarticle=2008.10.14_Geo\
rge_Robert_Obama's%20Abortion%20Extremism_.xml


And here is the article in print form.

Craig....

Obama's Abortion Extremism
by Robert George
Oct 14, 2008
Sen. Barack Obama's views on life issues ranging from abortion to
embryonic stem cell research mark him as not merely a pro-choice
politician, but rather as the most extreme pro-abortion candidate to
have ever run on a major party ticket.

Barack Obama is the most extreme pro-abortion candidate ever to seek
the office of President of the United States. He is the most extreme
pro-abortion member of the United States Senate. Indeed, he is the
most extreme pro-abortion legislator ever to serve in either house of
the United States Congress.

Yet there are Catholics and Evangelicals-even self-identified pro-life
Catholics and Evangelicals - who aggressively promote Obama's
candidacy and even declare him the preferred candidate from the pro-
life point of view.

What is going on here?

I have examined the arguments advanced by Obama's self-identified pro-
life supporters, and they are spectacularly weak. It is nearly
unfathomable to me that those advancing them can honestly believe what
they are saying. But before proving my claims about Obama's abortion
extremism, let me explain why I have described Obama as "pro-abortion"
rather than "pro-choice."

According to the standard argument for the distinction between these
labels,nobody is pro-abortion. Everybody would prefer a world without
abortions. After all, what woman would deliberately get pregnant just
to have an abortion? But given the world as it is, sometimes women
find themselves with unplanned pregnancies at times in their lives
when having a baby would present significant problems for them. So
even if abortion is not medically required, it should be permitted,
made as widely available as possible and, when necessary, paid for
with taxpayers' money.

The defect in this argument can easily be brought into focus if we
shift to the moral question that vexed an earlier generation of
Americans: slavery. Many people at the time of the American founding
would have preferred a world without slavery but nonetheless opposed
abolition. Such people - Thomas Jefferson was one - reasoned that,
given the world as it was, with slavery woven into the fabric of
society just as it had often been throughout history, the economic
consequences of abolition for society as a whole and for owners of
plantations and other businesses that relied on slave labor would be
dire. Many people who argued in this way were not monsters but honest
and sincere, albeit profoundly mistaken. Some (though not Jefferson)
showed their personal opposition to slavery by declining to own slaves
themselves or freeing slaves whom they had purchased or inherited.
They certainly didn't think anyone should be forced to own slaves.
Still, they maintained that slavery should remain a legally permitted
option and be given constitutional protection.

Would we describe such people, not as pro-slavery, but as "pro-
choice"? Of course we would not. It wouldn't matter to us that they
were "personally opposed" to slavery, or that they wished that slavery
were "unnecessary," or that they wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to
own slaves. We would hoot at the faux sophistication of a placard that
said "Against slavery? Don't own one." We would observe that the
fundamental divide is between people who believe that law and public
power should permit slavery, and those who think that owning slaves is
an unjust choice that should be prohibited.

Just for the sake of argument, though, let us assume that there could
be a morally meaningful distinction between being "pro-abortion" and
being "pro-choice." Who would qualify for the latter description?
Barack Obama certainly would not. For, unlike his running mate Joe
Biden, Obama does not think that abortion is a purely private choice
that public authority should refrain from getting involved in. Now,
Senator Biden is hardly pro-life. He believes that the killing of the
unborn should be legally permitted and relatively unencumbered. But
unlike Obama, at least Biden has sometimes opposed using taxpayer
dollars to fund abortion, thereby leaving Americans free to choose not
to implicate themselves in it. If we stretch things to create a
meaningful category called "pro-choice," then Biden might be a
plausible candidate for the label; at least on occasions when he
respects your choice or mine not to facilitate deliberate feticide.

The same cannot be said for Barack Obama. For starters, he supports
legislation that would repeal the Hyde Amendment, which protects pro-
life citizens from having to pay for abortions that are not necessary
to save the life of the mother and are not the result of rape or
incest. The abortion industry laments that this longstanding federal
law, according to the pro-abortion group NARAL, "forces about half the
women who would otherwise have abortions to carry unintended
pregnancies to term and bear children against their wishes instead."
In other words, a whole lot of people who are alive today would have
been exterminatedin utero were it not for the Hyde Amendment. Obama
has promised to reverse the situation so that abortions that the
industry complains are not happening (because the federal government
is not subsidizing them) would happen. That is why people who profit
from abortion love Obama even more than they do his running mate.

But this barely scratches the surface of Obama's extremism. He has
promised that "the first thing I'd do as President is sign the Freedom
of Choice Act" (known as FOCA). This proposed legislation would create
a federally guaranteed "fundamental right" to abortion through all
nine months of pregnancy, including, as Cardinal Justin Rigali of
Philadelphia has noted in a statement condemning the proposed Act, "a
right to abort a fully developed child in the final weeks for
undefined 'health' reasons." In essence, FOCA would abolish virtually
every existing state and federal limitation on abortion, including
parental consent and notification laws for minors, state and federal
funding restrictions on abortion, and conscience protections for pro-
life citizens working in the health-care industry-protections against
being forced to participate in the practice of abortion or else lose
their jobs. The pro-abortion National Organization for Women has
proclaimed with approval that FOCA would "sweep away hundreds of anti-
abortion laws [and] policies."

It gets worse. Obama, unlike even many "pro-choice" legislators,
opposed the ban on partial-birth abortions when he served in the
Illinois legislature and condemned the Supreme Court decision that
upheld legislation banning this heinous practice. He has referred to a
baby conceived inadvertently by a young woman as a"punishment" that
she should not endure. He has stated that women's equalityrequires
access to abortion on demand. Appallingly, he wishes to strip federal
funding from pro-life crisis pregnancy centers that provide
alternatives to abortion for pregnant women in need. There is
certainly nothing "pro-choice" about that.

But it gets even worse. Senator Obama, despite the urging of pro-life
members of his own party, has not endorsed or offered support for the
Pregnant Women Support Act, the signature bill of Democrats for Life,
meant to reduce abortions by providing assistance for women facing
crisis pregnancies. In fact, Obama hasopposed key provisions of the
Act, including providing coverage of unborn children in the State
Children's Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP), and informed consent for
women about the effects of abortion and the gestational age of their
child. This legislation would not make a single abortion illegal. It
simply seeks to make it easier for pregnant women to make the choice
not to abort their babies. Here is a concrete test of whether Obama is
"pro-choice" rather than pro-abortion. He flunked. Even Senator Edward
Kennedy voted to include coverage of unborn children in S-CHIP. But
Barack Obama stood resolutely with the most stalwart abortion
advocates in opposing it.

It gets worse yet. In an act of breathtaking injustice which the Obama
campaign lied about until critics produced documentary proof of what
he had done, as an Illinois state senator Obama opposed legislation to
protect children who are born alive, either as a result of an
abortionist's unsuccessful effort to kill them in the womb, or by the
deliberate delivery of the baby prior to viability. This legislation
would not have banned any abortions. Indeed, it included a specific
provision ensuring that it did not affect abortion laws. (This is one
of the points Obama and his campaign lied about until they were
caught.) The federal version of the bill passed unanimously in the
United States Senate, winning the support of such ardent advocates of
legal abortion as John Kerry and Barbara Boxer. But Barack Obama
opposed it and worked to defeat it. For him, a child marked for
abortion gets no protection-even ordinary medical or comfort care-even
if she is born alive and entirely separated from her mother. So Obama
has favored protecting what is literally a form of infanticide.

You may be thinking, it can't get worse than that. But it does.

For several years, Americans have been debating the use for biomedical
research of embryos produced by in vitro fertilization (originally for
reproductive purposes) but now left in a frozen condition in
cryopreservation units. President Bush has restricted the use of
federal funds for stem-cell research of the type that makes use of
these embryos and destroys them in the process. I support the
President's restriction, but some legislators with excellent pro-life
records, including John McCain, argue that the use of federal money
should be permitted where the embryos are going to be discarded or die
anyway as the result of the parents' decision. Senator Obama, too,
wants to lift the restriction.

But Obama would not stop there. He has co-sponsored a bill-strongly
opposed by McCain-that would authorize the large-scale industrial
production of human embryos for use in biomedical research in which
they would be killed. In fact, the bill Obama co-sponsored would
effectively require the killing of human beings in the embryonic stage
that were produced by cloning. It would make it a federal crime for a
woman to save an embryo by agreeing to have the tiny developing human
being implanted in her womb so that he or she could be brought to
term. This "clone and kill" bill would, if enacted, bring something to
America that has heretofore existed only in China-the equivalent of
legally mandated abortion. In an audacious act of deceit, Obama and
his co-sponsors misleadingly call this ananti-cloning bill. But it is
nothing of the kind. What it bans is not cloning, but allowing the
embryonic children produced by cloning to survive.

Can it get still worse? Yes.

Decent people of every persuasion hold out the increasingly realistic
hope of resolving the moral issue surrounding embryonic stem-cell
research by developing methods to produce the exact equivalent of
embryonic stem cells without using (or producing) embryos. But when a
bill was introduced in the United States Senate to put a modest amount
of federal money into research to develop these methods, Barack Obama
was one of the few senators who opposed it. From any rational vantage
point, this is unconscionable. Why would someone not wish to find a
method of producing the pluripotent cells scientists want that all
Americans could enthusiastically endorse? Why create and kill human
embryos when there are alternatives that do not require the taking of
nascent human lives? It is as if Obama is opposed to stem-cell
research unless it involves killing human embryos.

This ultimate manifestation of Obama's extremism brings us back to the
puzzle of his pro-life Catholic and Evangelical apologists.

They typically do not deny the facts I have reported. They could not;
each one is a matter of public record. But despite Obama's injustices
against the most vulnerable human beings, and despite the
extraordinary support he receives from the industry that profits from
killing the unborn (which should be a good indicator of where he
stands), some Obama supporters insist that he is the better candidate
from the pro-life point of view.

They say that his economic and social policies would so diminish the
demand for abortion that the overall number would actually go down-
despite the federal subsidizing of abortion and the elimination of
hundreds of pro-life laws. The way to save lots of unborn babies, they
say, is to vote for the pro-abortion-oops! "pro-choice"-candidate.
They tell us not to worry that Obama opposes the Hyde Amendment, the
Mexico City Policy (against funding abortion abroad), parental consent
and notification laws, conscience protections, and the funding of
alternatives to embryo-destructive research. They ask us to look past
his support for Roe v. Wade, the Freedom of Choice Act, partial-birth
abortion, and human cloning and embryo-killing. An Obama presidency,
they insist, means less killing of the unborn.

This is delusional.

We know that the federal and state pro-life laws and policies that
Obama has promised to sweep away (and that John McCain would protect)
save thousands of lives every year. Studies conducted by Professor
Michael New and other social scientists have removed any doubt. Often
enough, the abortion lobby itself confirms the truth of what these
scholars have determined. Tom McClusky has observed that Planned
Parenthood's own statistics show that in each of the seven states that
have FOCA-type legislation on the books, "abortion rates have
increased while the national rate has decreased." In Maryland, where a
bill similar to the one favored by Obama was enacted in 1991, he notes
that "abortion rates have increased by 8 percent while the overall
national abortion rate decreased by 9 percent." No one is really
surprised. After all, the message clearly conveyed by policies such as
those Obama favors is that abortion is a legitimate solution to the
problem of unwanted pregnancies - so clearly legitimate that taxpayers
should be forced to pay for it.

But for a moment let's suppose, against all the evidence, that Obama's
proposalswould reduce the number of abortions, even while subsidizing
the killing with taxpayer dollars. Even so, many more unborn human
beings would likely be killed under Obama than under McCain. A
Congress controlled by strong Democratic majorities under Harry Reid
and Nancy Pelosi would enact the bill authorizing the mass industrial
production of human embryos by cloning for research in which they are
killed. As president, Obama would sign it. The number of tiny humans
created and killed under this legislation (assuming that an efficient
human cloning technique is soon perfected) could dwarf the number of
lives saved as a result of the reduced demand for abortion-even if we
take a delusionally optimistic view of what that number would be.

Barack Obama and John McCain differ on many important issues about
which reasonable people of goodwill, including pro-life Americans of
every faith, disagree: how best to fight international terrorism, how
to restore economic growth and prosperity, how to distribute the tax
burden and reduce poverty, etc.

But on abortion and the industrial creation of embryos for destructive
research, there is a profound difference of moral principle, not just
prudence. These questions reveal the character and judgment of each
man. Barack Obama is deeply committed to the belief that members of an
entire class of human beings have no rights that others must respect.
Across the spectrum of pro-life concerns for the unborn, he would deny
these small and vulnerable members of the human family the basic
protection of the laws. Over the next four to eight years, as many as
five or even six U.S. Supreme Court justices could retire. Obama
enthusiastically supports Roe v. Wade and would appoint judges who
would protect that morally and constitutionally disastrous decision
and even expand its scope. Indeed, in an interview in Glamour
magazine, he made it clear that he would apply a litmus test for
Supreme Court nominations: jurists who do not support Roe will not be
considered for appointment by Obama. John McCain, by contrast, opposes
Roe and would appoint judges likely to overturn it. This would not
make abortion illegal, but it would return the issue to the forums of
democratic deliberation, where pro-life Americans could engage in a
fair debate to persuade fellow citizens that killing the unborn is no
way to address the problems of pregnant women in need.

What kind of America do we want our beloved nation to be? Barack
Obama's America is one in which being human just isn't enough to
warrant care and protection. It is an America where the unborn may
legitimately be killed without legal restriction, even by the grisly
practice of partial-birth abortion. It is an America where a baby who
survives abortion is not even entitled to comfort care as she dies on
a stainless steel table or in a soiled linen bin. It is a nation in
which some members of the human family are regarded as inferior and
others superior in fundamental dignity and rights. In Obama's America,
public policy would make a mockery of the great constitutional
principle of the equal protection of the law. In perhaps the most
telling comment made by any candidate in either party in this election
year, Senator Obama, when asked by Rick Warren when a baby gets human
rights, replied: "that question is above my pay grade." It was a
profoundly disingenuous answer: For even at a state senator's pay
grade, Obama presumed to answer that question with blind certainty.
His unspoken answer then, as now, is chilling: human beings have no
rights until infancy - and if they are unwanted survivors of attempted
abortions, not even then.

In the end, the efforts of Obama's apologists to depict their man as
the true pro-life candidate that Catholics and Evangelicals may and
even should vote for, doesn't even amount to a nice try. Voting for
the most extreme pro-abortion political candidate in American history
is not the way to save unborn babies.

Robert P. George is McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence and Director
of the James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions at
Princeton University. He is a member of the President's Council on
Bioethics and previously served on the United States Commission on
Civil Rights. He sits on the editorial board of Public Discourse.

Copyright 2008 The Witherspoon Institute. All rights reserved.