I liked Obama from the first time I heard him speak at the Democratic convention
many years ago and hoped he would be the president someday.
 
I'm a bit disappointed in some of the things that are going on like bailing out
the rich
but I don't know if anyone could have stopped that. I'd also like to see him end
the
war on drugs at least marijuana as that's what most of his supporters on his
website
said they wanted to see done.
 
I would like it better if he supported gay marriage but can understand why he
didn't.
Don't ask don't tell needs to be chucked so we have an integrated military.
 
I would like to see universal health care and not some kind of band aid fix that
leaves
big business in charge of our health. I think the only way we will get universal
health
care is to first get a universal ID card like the VA card I have.
 
Barack is a million times better than anything the Republicans had or have to
offer
so I'm feeling glad to be an American again.
 
As far as gun legislatoin goes I think that's more dependent on the number and
severity of atrocities that occur more than who the law makers are.
Every atrocity done with a gun is another nail in our gun rights.
That's plain to me.
 
Glad you found the group,


Michelle Ress Felton, CA
 
http://safoocat.blogspot.com/




Wapati Guy wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   I ran across this group while surfing the web. It sounded great as it's
tough being a liberal gun owner. Apparently this isn't too active of a group?
>   

It hasn't been, but it probably should be now.

I'm curious how people feel about Obama. I mean altogether, and not just
on guns but certainly including that.

My reason for asking is that this is the one pro-gun venue that I know
of that isn't dominated by people on the right.

I have a lot more to say about pro-gun venues that ARE dominated by the
right and their response to Obama, but I wanted to know YOUR thoughts
and feelings about him and his administration, how and why he got
elected, the Republicans' attempt to beat him, their response to his and
the Democratic party's electoral victory, the current shape of the
Republican party (a fascinating topic by itself), and anything else
closely or tangentially related to Obama that you might want to talk about.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The butt pad is a definite help with the recoil.  The only problem is I miss the
butt trap cleaning kit that came with the traditional stock.  The M1A has some
unique cleaning tools and to me it makes more sense to have them on the weapon
instead of carrying separately.  Just my $.02

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, Eric Sowers <rochefort46@...> wrote:
>
> I've shot the M-14 a lot.  I was a Marine starting in 1965, before
> transition to the M-16.
>
> The M-14 is a great rifle, but not a good replacement for the BAR
> because it really does have significant muzzle climb on full auto.
> That's not going to be a problem for the M1A, of course.  Without a
> recoil compensator you're going to get a lot of recoil, so I suggest a
> butt pad if you're like me and spoiled by the AR.  The sights are
> good, and the .308 carries a very, very long way.  Never had a problem
> with a malfunction, and it's incredibly easy to field-strip and clean.
>
> Never shot the FAL.
>
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 9:48 AM, Xela wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Back to the M1A.
> >
> > Have you had a chance to shoot it? Impressions? Have you shot the
> > FAL before? Comparisons?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Xela
> >
> > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Way to go.
> > >
> > > My wife does not frown upon the M1A. She actually considers it a
> > "real" rifle. Evil black rifles are another matter though.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, I also feel like Suzie Orman is breathing down my
> > neck when I walk into a gunshop/pawnshop, "Do you really NEED that?
> > Or do you simply WANT that?"
> > >
> > > X
> > >
> > > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001"
> > <el_jefe99@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Xela;
> > > >
> > > > You are absolutely right, as usual, this is a gun forum.
> > > >
> > > > I had the foresight to pick up an M1A in early 2008 before the
> > price picked up. In a bit of irony, I bought the M1A (which I love)
> > because I couldnt find an FAL in my area. A short time later I went
> > to a gun show on a lark and found a gorgeous Standard FAL that
> > looked exactly like an SLR, same furniture and everything. If I had
> > known that gun prices were going to spike THIS bad I would have
> > snapped it up damn the cost. Its cost then was less than an AR is
> > now. Sigh...
> > > >
> > > > For those who have always wondered, the M1A is a fine piece of
> > machinery. It feels modern enough to take seriously with a
> > delightfully retro feel at the same time with that Garand style
> > action. As a mechanically inept person I am in awe of finely
> > machined objects.
> > > >
> > > > Chem
> > > >
> > > > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > To follow chemsoldier's example from a while back.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is also a gun forum :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm wondering if I'm the only one kicking myself in the family
> > jewels (pardon ladies) for not buying that AK/AR/FAL/M1A rifle when
> > I still could.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been meaning to throw caution to the wind and go on a
> > credit card charging spree...but then cooler minds previals, mainly
> > my wife's.
> > > > >
> > > > > Xela
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've shot the M-14 a lot.  I was a Marine starting in 1965, before
transition to the M-16.

The M-14 is a great rifle, but not a good replacement for the BAR
because it really does have significant muzzle climb on full auto.
That's not going to be a problem for the M1A, of course.  Without a
recoil compensator you're going to get a lot of recoil, so I suggest a
butt pad if you're like me and spoiled by the AR.  The sights are
good, and the .308 carries a very, very long way.  Never had a problem
with a malfunction, and it's incredibly easy to field-strip and clean.

Never shot the FAL.

On Apr 22, 2009, at 9:48 AM, Xela wrote:

>
>
> Back to the M1A.
>
> Have you had a chance to shoot it? Impressions? Have you shot the
> FAL before? Comparisons?
>
> Regards,
>
> Xela
>
> --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Way to go.
> >
> > My wife does not frown upon the M1A. She actually considers it a
> "real" rifle. Evil black rifles are another matter though.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I also feel like Suzie Orman is breathing down my
> neck when I walk into a gunshop/pawnshop, "Do you really NEED that?
> Or do you simply WANT that?"
> >
> > X
> >
> > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001"
> <el_jefe99@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Xela;
> > >
> > > You are absolutely right, as usual, this is a gun forum.
> > >
> > > I had the foresight to pick up an M1A in early 2008 before the
> price picked up. In a bit of irony, I bought the M1A (which I love)
> because I couldnt find an FAL in my area. A short time later I went
> to a gun show on a lark and found a gorgeous Standard FAL that
> looked exactly like an SLR, same furniture and everything. If I had
> known that gun prices were going to spike THIS bad I would have
> snapped it up damn the cost. Its cost then was less than an AR is
> now. Sigh...
> > >
> > > For those who have always wondered, the M1A is a fine piece of
> machinery. It feels modern enough to take seriously with a
> delightfully retro feel at the same time with that Garand style
> action. As a mechanically inept person I am in awe of finely
> machined objects.
> > >
> > > Chem
> > >
> > > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > To follow chemsoldier's example from a while back.
> > > >
> > > > This is also a gun forum :)
> > > >
> > > > I'm wondering if I'm the only one kicking myself in the family
> jewels (pardon ladies) for not buying that AK/AR/FAL/M1A rifle when
> I still could.
> > > >
> > > > I've been meaning to throw caution to the wind and go on a
> credit card charging spree...but then cooler minds previals, mainly
> my wife's.
> > > >
> > > > Xela
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wapati Guy wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   I ran across this group while surfing the web. It sounded great as it's
tough being a liberal gun owner. Apparently this isn't too active of a group?
>

It hasn't been, but it probably should be now.

I'm curious how people feel about Obama. I mean altogether, and not just
on guns but certainly including that.

My reason for asking is that this is the one pro-gun venue that I know
of that isn't dominated by people on the right.

I have a lot more to say about pro-gun venues that ARE dominated by the
right and their response to Obama, but I wanted to know YOUR thoughts
and feelings about him and his administration, how and why he got
elected, the Republicans' attempt to beat him, their response to his and
the Democratic party's electoral victory, the current shape of the
Republican party (a fascinating topic by itself), and anything else
closely or tangentially related to Obama that you might want to talk about.

I think it was slanted, Allan.



http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/6631
<http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/6631>

Diane Sawyer rigs mass shooting experiment on 20/20 Printable page Submitted
by drieck on Tue, 04/14/2009 - 00:10.

* Guns in the News

* Gun Grabbers

By Dean Rieck

Do you think it's a good idea to be armed during a mass shooting? Diane
Sawyer and the producers of ABC's 20/20 aren't so sure. In fact, on Friday,
April 10, 2009, Sawyer spent a full hour trying desperately to prove how
dangerous guns are and how ordinary people can't possibly defend themselves
with firearms. The show's snarky title: "If I Only Had A Gun."

Slanted information filled the report, seemingly pulled from the press
releases of the Brady Campaign, with not a single dissenting opinion.

The most egregious slight of hand was a rigged experiment that struggled to
show why having a gun would do you no good in a Virginia Tech style mass
shooting.

The scenario played out in a classroom filled with ABC employees and police
posing as students. At the far end sat the "victim," a young, wide-eyed man
whose experience consisted primarily of shooting pop cans with an Airsoft
gun in his back yard.

Everyone in the room wore a large, protective helmet, bulky gloves, and a
white shirt to show "hits" from paint-filled rounds. The victim carried a
Glock in a belt holster. To add "realism" to the scene, the show producers
instructed all the other students to scream, run, and panic.

The experiment started as the students sat listening to a lecture about
protective gear. The victim had been told the experiment would be later in
the day, but the armed "shooter" entered the room suddenly and calmly
proceeded to shoot the lecturer then turned and immediately aimed at the
victim. As the other students ran and screamed on cue, the young man fumbled
with the Glock, getting it caught in his shirt and taking a hit to the head
and chest.

The show's conclusion? Having a gun doesn't protect you. Ordinary people
aren't trained to handle stress. You might shoot innocent people. The bad
guy might take your gun from you.

So having a gun is pointless, right? Well, hold on. Let's take a closer look
at that experiment.

* The victim wore a helmet and bulky gloves. Obviously there was a safety
issue, so the helmet is understandable. But why the gloves? They appeared
too large. They certainly made drawing and firing a handgun far more
difficult than it should be. I've run through scenarios similar to this and
never wore gloves. Hits sting, but they don't hurt.

* The victim carried an unfamiliar gun and holster. Is that the gun he would
have actually carried? Is that the holster he would have used?

The video showed the holster placed in an awkward position and at a
difficult angle, not likely the way the young man would have carried the gun
in real life.

* The victim had to draw from concealment under a long shirt. Is this the
shirt he would really wear? Did he receive any instruction on drawing from a
holster, with gloves, from that oddly placed holster, from beneath that long
shirt? We'll never know, but the video didn't show any training beyond a
little ordinary target practice at short range.

* The shooter knew there was an armed student in the classroom. This is a
big error in the experiment. What mass shooter would enter a room where he
knew there was someone with a gun to shoot back?

* The shooter shot the lecturer first, then turned directly to the young man
and began firing. How convenient it was for the shooter to know who was
armed and where he was sitting so he could quickly take out the one and only
threat in the room.

* The shooter knew he could be fired at, but showed no surprise at the sight
of a gun. The experiment was repeated with other "victims"

under the same circumstances and not once did the shooter react in surprise.
In real life, a shooter won't expect any resistance and is likely to react
when shot at.

* The shooter was a professional firearm instructor and a good shot under
stress. Not exactly realistic, since real mass murderers are usually just
insane people with guns.

In other words, this experiment was rigged. The armed student was set up to
fail.

Let's be clear. A real violent encounter will be confusing and terrifying.
It's likely you'll make mistakes. Every competent firearm instructor will
tell you this. But Sawyer acted as if stress reactions such as narrowed
vision and loss of fine motor control were frightening revelations and proof
that guns are useless in a violent encounter.

Worse, this experiment says little about carrying a concealed weapon other
than Diane Sawyer and her crew mistakenly think it's a bad idea.

In real life, the shooter won't expect you to be armed. He won't know who or
where you are. He'll be surprised when you start shooting back.

You won't be hampered by gloves or a helmet or a situation designed to get
you killed. There are no guarantees. But carrying a gun CAN level the
playing field with an active shooter.

And what did Sawyer suggest you do instead of carry a gun? Carry a cell
phone. That's right. A CELL PHONE. Yes, you'll fumble with a gun and get
yourself killed in five seconds. But somehow you'll have plenty of time to
draw a phone, dial 911 with your fine motor control intact, and calmly chat
with a dispatcher while waiting 10 or 20 minutes for authorities to arrive,
set up a base of operations, and try to figure out how to save you without
getting themselves killed.

Did Sawyer talk to anyone who thought carrying a gun was a good idea?

No. Did she consider any statistics about how often ordinary people defend
themselves with a gun? No. Did she get a statement from the NRA, a police
officer, an instructor, or a citizen with even a hint that a gun might
possibly give you an advantage? No. She didn't even bother to talk to John
Stossel, a fellow reporter whose office is down the hall at ABC, reports for
20/20, and has debunked anti-gun propaganda on many occasions.

What should we conclude? Was this a deliberate attempt to hide the truth? Or
was it yet another display of ignorance on the part of the elite media? Does
it matter? It was a poorly executed experiment that delivered a half truth
at best, a lie at worst.

Do I think it's a good idea to be armed during a mass shooting? Yes.

Because even if I make every mistake in the book under stress, I'd rather
have a small chance than no chance. And frankly, if I'm going to get killed,
I don't want it to be for lack of shooting back.

And maybe - just maybe - if the media stopped telling people that passivity
is a survival strategy and started telling people that aggressive resistance
might save you, perhaps we'd see fewer mass shootings. Why? For the same
reason mass shootings seldom happen in police stations. The sick, cowardly
lunatics who do these shootings want soft targets and a high body count. The
fewer soft targets, the fewer mass shootings.

My apologies if you also receive a message with similar if differently
stated content from me.  I sent that previous message hours ago but for
some reason it hasn't yet shown up on the list.

Anyway, now that the whole political scene is very different in some
important ways from what it was since this list was last active, I
wanted to ask your opinions about it.

I'm doing that because this is the only non-rightist pro-gun online
venue that I know of.  (The pro-gun venue I'm mostly on now is typically
right-dominated and when a couple of the gun owners on it said they had
voted for Obama they were attacked in some pretty harsh ways.  It's
something that obviously can't be talked about there.)

I wanted to know what you all think of Obama, not just his gun politics,
but anything about him, his campaign, his actions or administration that
you want to talk about.  Or about McCain, Palin and their campaign, the
Republicans in general, the Democrats in general, the current Congress,
whatever you want.

This is SPAM. Please remove.
Thanks






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I got my wife a Beretta 85F (.380 ACP) as a wedding present about a decade ago.

It's basically a scaled down mini 92 (pardon the redundancy).  Not the 92F mind
you, as the safety is on the frame as opposed to the slide.  The controls, look,
feel, even some aspects of disassembly are very similar to her big sister.

My wife hates racking the slide as it hurts her terribly, but loves the mild
recoil of the .380 ACP.  However, in the past few years she gave it up and took
one of my 1911's as hers :(

I happen to prefer the safety on the frame as my thumbs have a better reach for
it (ala 1911).

I don't particularly enjoy the shift from double action to single action, but I
get used to it after a magazine full.  Sights are awesome.  Mag release button
perfect.

I did find out that I do not have the same problem of jerking the trigger with
it as I do with the 1911.  It could be that I prefer double action (I have also
shot pretty decently with a S&W 686).

Anyhoo.

Overall, I like it.  To the point I have considered using it over the 1911 in
order to take the CHL/CCW test (that is, whenever I get around to it).

Xela

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001" <el_jefe99@...>
wrote:
>
> Any Beretta 92 fans out there?  I was not / suppose I am still not a fan but I
purchased one a while back when I was issued one for my job.  I figured I needed
to practice with it more than the military would let me.
>
> I am still not a fan but I have a lot more respect for it.  It is accurate and
reliable. The 9mm round is a kitten in a gun that heavy, kick isnt bad at all.
>
> I am not a fan of the double action, single action design and the trigger
reset is a little long for me since I was raised on Glocks and 1911s. Unless I
practice a lot I tend to short stroke the reset when I am firing quickly.
>
> I was getting ready for a match and did about 150-200 rounds of draw and fire
a single round double action.  My trigger finger did not want to work from that
long heavy DA pull.  It took about three days for that to feel better.  I have
never had that problem with Glocks.
>
> I dislike the rear sight that comes with it.  It has a white rear dot that is
at the bottom of the rear sight notch. I really prefer the three dot style where
the rear sight has two dots on each side of the notch and the front sight has a
dot.  Line up the three dot and no problem.
>
> All in all I have little to complain about aside from not being what I am used
to...but it still isnt my favorite.
>

Any Beretta 92 fans out there?  I was not / suppose I am still not a fan but I
purchased one a while back when I was issued one for my job.  I figured I needed
to practice with it more than the military would let me.

I am still not a fan but I have a lot more respect for it.  It is accurate and
reliable. The 9mm round is a kitten in a gun that heavy, kick isnt bad at all.

I am not a fan of the double action, single action design and the trigger reset
is a little long for me since I was raised on Glocks and 1911s. Unless I
practice a lot I tend to short stroke the reset when I am firing quickly.

I was getting ready for a match and did about 150-200 rounds of draw and fire a
single round double action.  My trigger finger did not want to work from that
long heavy DA pull.  It took about three days for that to feel better.  I have
never had that problem with Glocks.

I dislike the rear sight that comes with it.  It has a white rear dot that is at
the bottom of the rear sight notch. I really prefer the three dot style where
the rear sight has two dots on each side of the notch and the front sight has a
dot.  Line up the three dot and no problem.

All in all I have little to complain about aside from not being what I am used
to...but it still isnt my favorite.

There seems to be a trend of this police impersonation.  He may have been
enboldened by watching the coverage of previous instances of this happening.

Maybe I have a different perspective, but I would be highly suspicious of anyone
claiming military police creds.  MPs cant even go after deserters off of a
federal installation.  If an MP saw a deserter at McDonalds he would have to
call the local police who would then arrest him.

This guy gives the military a bad name since he was in the miltary previously
and pretended to be an MP, damages the police department's credibility since
they were taken in, damages the reputation of CCW holders who have
overwhelmingly proven to be very law abiding people.


--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@...> wrote:
>
> ...I just don't know if I should laugh or cry...or groan... :)
>
>
> Xela
>
>
> ----In the news-------
>
> Dallas police seeking impostor who helped make arrests
>
> "Little is known about Caskey, but he does not appear to have a criminal
history. And although has a concealed-weapons permit, the law forbids him from
carrying the handgun openly, police said. Such a violation is a Class A
misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a $4,000 fine."
>
>
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/042809dnmetdpd\
imposter.3cac535.html
>

...I just don't know if I should laugh or cry...or groan... :)


Xela


----In the news-------

Dallas police seeking impostor who helped make arrests

"Little is known about Caskey, but he does not appear to have a criminal
history. And although has a concealed-weapons permit, the law forbids him from
carrying the handgun openly, police said. Such a violation is a Class A
misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a $4,000 fine."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/042809dnmetdpd\
imposter.3cac535.html

On the topic of improving one's shooting, y'all might be interested in a
recent slo-mo video of mine on calling shots-- including a nice example
of how to spot a jerked trigger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJAPbf_TVs8

There are several others in my set that might be entertaining as well.

I sincerely appreciate your comments chemsoldier.

Kind regards,

Xela

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001" <el_jefe99@...>
wrote:
>
> The M1A is a great rifle.  The ergonomics are great, though I do need to add a
cheek rest.  The sights are very nice, nay they are better than nice.  It is a
satisfying chunk of gun, much heavier than the AR.  I have fired the FAL and M1A
and the M1A feels more accurate.  It feels more like a precision instrument. In
reality I have not really wrung out both rifles on accuracy.  I have not fired
either weapon beyond 200 yards.  I have fired the M1A at scaled targets to
simulate 400 yards and it answered the mail. As a person raised on the AR both
feel like heavy chunks of metal.  The weight helps with the recoil of the .308
though.
>
> All in all the M1A may be a better shooters rifle, but in the end it was in
mainline service for a short amount of time.  The FAL was in service for so many
nations for so long that it has a feeling of history to me.   There is some
irony that the weapon that was the real rifle of democracy against the communist
horde was not American but Belgian.
>
> --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@> wrote:
> >
> > Back to the M1A.
> >
> > Have you had a chance to shoot it?  Impressions?  Have you shot the FAL
before?  Comparisons?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Xela
> >
> > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Way to go.
> > >
> > > My wife does not frown upon the M1A.  She actually considers it a "real"
rifle.  Evil black rifles are another matter though.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, I also feel like Suzie Orman is breathing down my neck when
I walk into a gunshop/pawnshop, "Do you really NEED that?  Or do you simply WANT
that?"
> > >
> > > X
> > >
> > > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001" <el_jefe99@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Xela;
> > > >
> > > > You are absolutely right, as usual, this is a gun forum.
> > > >
> > > > I had the foresight to pick up an M1A in early 2008 before the price
picked up.  In a bit of irony, I bought the M1A (which I love) because I couldnt
find an FAL in my area.  A short time later I went to a gun show on a lark and
found a gorgeous Standard FAL that looked exactly like an SLR, same furniture
and everything.  If I had known that gun prices were going to spike THIS bad I
would have snapped it up damn the cost.  Its cost then was less than an AR is
now. Sigh...
> > > >
> > > > For those who have always wondered, the M1A is a fine piece of
machinery. It feels modern enough to take seriously with a delightfully retro
feel at the same time with that Garand style action.  As a mechanically inept
person I am in awe of finely machined objects.
> > > >
> > > > Chem
> > > >
> > > > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > To follow chemsoldier's example from a while back.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is also a gun forum :)
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm wondering if I'm the only one kicking myself in the family jewels
(pardon ladies) for not buying that AK/AR/FAL/M1A rifle when I still could.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been meaning to throw caution to the wind and go on a credit card
charging spree...but then cooler minds previals, mainly my wife's.
> > > > >
> > > > > Xela
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Should go without saying :)

Thanks to all for their input.

Regards,

Xela

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, Roger Metzger <r.metzger44@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tip.  I think I'll try that today.  R.M.
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 5:52 PM, <Brandon.Chase@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I actually had a problem with all my shots grouping from 7-8 o'clock
> > when I first got my glock 19. I cured it with lots of dry fire
> > practice, but in particular I focused on the "tennis ball squeeze" and
> > starting my trigger pull from the back of my shooting hand. It feels
> > strange at first, but I think it helps you squeeze the trigger straight
> > back instead of jerking it, as I haven't had any problems with jerking
> > shots since.
> >
> > On 04/22/09 12:03, Xela wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > RE: Dryfire
> > >
> > > Could you expand on your exercises? How long do you do it per session?
> > > How many times a week/month/day? Breathing? Revolver/Auto?
> > >
> > > If auto, DA or SA?
> > >
> > > I've been trying to beat a bad case of the "jerking trigger". Been
> > > shooting at 7-8 o'clock at 7 yards.
> > >
> > > I'm kinda anal and use snapcaps.
> > >
> > > Yes, always check to make sure it's unloaded :)
> > >
> > > Xela
> > >
> > > --- In
guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com<guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
<mailto:guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com<guntotingliberals%2540yahoogroups.co\
m>>,
> > "chemsoldier2001"
> > > <el_jefe99@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Maybe it is because my gun collection has been at the size it needs
> > > to be (though I would always like more), maybe it is because I am in
> > > the military, but I have been on a training kick for the last few
> > > years. When I first got into guns it was all about the metal (and wood
> > > and polymer) I read lots of reviews and shot lots of different guns
> > > and was looking for those 1-4% increases in performance.
> > > >
> > > > Now I am more into the software side. I train, I compete (when work
> > > allows) and try to attend formalized trianing when circumstances (and
> > > money) allow.
> > > > Two easy things I would like the advocate to everyone is:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Dry fire- Once you know the basics and you have been shown how to
> > > do it right, you can improve dramatically with dry fire practice in
> > > your own home. With the exception of rimfires all modern quality
> > > handguns can be dry fired thousands and thousands of time with no
> > > issues. However if you are anal you can get snap caps. You would be
> > > amazed how much you can improve without spending a dime or driving
> > > anywhere. Make sure the bloody gun is unloaded!
> > > >
> > > > 2. Airsoft- They are not cheap toys anymore. High end airsoft guns
> > > are the same size, controls, some have the same triggers as real guns.
> > > The compact glock airsoft I own is the same size, weight and controls
> > > of my carry gun. It fits in the same holsters. I use it in my garage
> > > when I want to accuracy check without a range trip. The pellets and
> > > gas cost peanuts. A great way to practice perishable skills before you
> > > expend costly ammo at the range. I use it to work on my one handed and
> > > weak handed shooting before I go to the range. Saves me much
> > embarassment.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone else with ideas or techniques to keep to the skills sharp?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks for the tip.  I think I'll try that today.  R.M.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 5:52 PM, <Brandon.Chase@...> wrote:

>
>
> I actually had a problem with all my shots grouping from 7-8 o'clock
> when I first got my glock 19. I cured it with lots of dry fire
> practice, but in particular I focused on the "tennis ball squeeze" and
> starting my trigger pull from the back of my shooting hand. It feels
> strange at first, but I think it helps you squeeze the trigger straight
> back instead of jerking it, as I haven't had any problems with jerking
> shots since.
>
> On 04/22/09 12:03, Xela wrote:
> >
> >
> > RE: Dryfire
> >
> > Could you expand on your exercises? How long do you do it per session?
> > How many times a week/month/day? Breathing? Revolver/Auto?
> >
> > If auto, DA or SA?
> >
> > I've been trying to beat a bad case of the "jerking trigger". Been
> > shooting at 7-8 o'clock at 7 yards.
> >
> > I'm kinda anal and use snapcaps.
> >
> > Yes, always check to make sure it's unloaded :)
> >
> > Xela
> >
> > --- In
guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com<guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
<mailto:guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com<guntotingliberals%2540yahoogroups.co\
m>>,
> "chemsoldier2001"
> > <el_jefe99@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe it is because my gun collection has been at the size it needs
> > to be (though I would always like more), maybe it is because I am in
> > the military, but I have been on a training kick for the last few
> > years. When I first got into guns it was all about the metal (and wood
> > and polymer) I read lots of reviews and shot lots of different guns
> > and was looking for those 1-4% increases in performance.
> > >
> > > Now I am more into the software side. I train, I compete (when work
> > allows) and try to attend formalized trianing when circumstances (and
> > money) allow.
> > > Two easy things I would like the advocate to everyone is:
> > >
> > > 1. Dry fire- Once you know the basics and you have been shown how to
> > do it right, you can improve dramatically with dry fire practice in
> > your own home. With the exception of rimfires all modern quality
> > handguns can be dry fired thousands and thousands of time with no
> > issues. However if you are anal you can get snap caps. You would be
> > amazed how much you can improve without spending a dime or driving
> > anywhere. Make sure the bloody gun is unloaded!
> > >
> > > 2. Airsoft- They are not cheap toys anymore. High end airsoft guns
> > are the same size, controls, some have the same triggers as real guns.
> > The compact glock airsoft I own is the same size, weight and controls
> > of my carry gun. It fits in the same holsters. I use it in my garage
> > when I want to accuracy check without a range trip. The pellets and
> > gas cost peanuts. A great way to practice perishable skills before you
> > expend costly ammo at the range. I use it to work on my one handed and
> > weak handed shooting before I go to the range. Saves me much
> embarassment.
> > >
> > > Anyone else with ideas or techniques to keep to the skills sharp?
> > >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I actually had a problem with all my shots grouping from 7-8 o'clock
when I first got my glock 19.  I cured it with lots of dry fire
practice, but in particular I focused on the "tennis ball squeeze" and
starting my trigger pull from the back of my shooting hand.  It feels
strange at first, but I think it helps you squeeze the trigger straight
back instead of jerking it, as  I haven't had any problems with jerking
shots since.

On 04/22/09 12:03, Xela wrote:
>
>
> RE: Dryfire
>
> Could you expand on your exercises? How long do you do it per session?
> How many times a week/month/day? Breathing? Revolver/Auto?
>
> If auto, DA or SA?
>
> I've been trying to beat a bad case of the "jerking trigger". Been
> shooting at 7-8 o'clock at 7 yards.
>
> I'm kinda anal and use snapcaps.
>
> Yes, always check to make sure it's unloaded :)
>
> Xela
>
> --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:guntotingliberals%40yahoogroups.com>, "chemsoldier2001"
> <el_jefe99@...> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe it is because my gun collection has been at the size it needs
> to be (though I would always like more), maybe it is because I am in
> the military, but I have been on a training kick for the last few
> years. When I first got into guns it was all about the metal (and wood
> and polymer) I read lots of reviews and shot lots of different guns
> and was looking for those 1-4% increases in performance.
> >
> > Now I am more into the software side. I train, I compete (when work
> allows) and try to attend formalized trianing when circumstances (and
> money) allow.
> > Two easy things I would like the advocate to everyone is:
> >
> > 1. Dry fire- Once you know the basics and you have been shown how to
> do it right, you can improve dramatically with dry fire practice in
> your own home. With the exception of rimfires all modern quality
> handguns can be dry fired thousands and thousands of time with no
> issues. However if you are anal you can get snap caps. You would be
> amazed how much you can improve without spending a dime or driving
> anywhere. Make sure the bloody gun is unloaded!
> >
> > 2. Airsoft- They are not cheap toys anymore. High end airsoft guns
> are the same size, controls, some have the same triggers as real guns.
> The compact glock airsoft I own is the same size, weight and controls
> of my carry gun. It fits in the same holsters. I use it in my garage
> when I want to accuracy check without a range trip. The pellets and
> gas cost peanuts. A great way to practice perishable skills before you
> expend costly ammo at the range. I use it to work on my one handed and
> weak handed shooting before I go to the range. Saves me much embarassment.
> >
> > Anyone else with ideas or techniques to keep to the skills sharp?
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have one gun for self defense
 
I have gun(S) because of the gun banners.
then when California started cracking down on gun
purchases I went gung ho and tried to buy one gun a month however that became
too much quickly and now I wish I didn't have so many really.

I have told my Senator, Diane Feinstein how I felt about guns and it came down
to "we'll have to agree to disagree"
Maybe I would feel as she does if I were there when Harvey Milk and George
Mosconi
were gunned down but I wasn't.
The way I figure it if guns ever did become inaccessible then the murderers
would switch
to things like bombs or poison and it would be worse.
 
The truth is if guns are ever banned there will be more guns and more kinds of
guns
available than there are now. If you doubt that statement look at the drug
culture.
Drugs are banned and there are constantly new drugs and more drugs available.
The
ban itself is the impetus aside from the profit motive people just don't like
being told
what to do with their own bodies.
 
We all know that any competent machinist can make a gun in his or her shop so
it's really no big deal the gun banning thing if you are willing to do as Dylan
says
"to live outside the law you must be honest" to your beliefs.

Michelle Ress Felton, CA
 
http://safoocat.blogspot.com/

--- On Tue, 4/21/09, chemsoldier2001 <el_jefe99@...> wrote:


From: chemsoldier2001 <el_jefe99@...>
Subject: [guntotingliberals] Gun toting libertarians
To: guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 2:53 PM


I thought about divesting myself of the group.  But libertarians are "classical
liberals" so I guess I am trying to take it back (tip of the hat to Clerks II).

Seriously though.  As a libertarian minded person (notice the small l) I find
myself agreeing with the "liberals" on many issues.  That and I am sick of the
stereotype of all gun owners being bible thumpers so I back any stereotype
breaking group...and a gun toting liberal is a stereotype defier.

I will argue about certain points till I am blue in the face but I am still
loyal to the group and its purpose.


So where do we pro-gun liberals stand?  I reckon we can go pretty far down the
pro-gun road before we start to have a problem. What can we agree on as far as
tactics, techniques and procedures for furthering a pro-gun liberal
stance?   Letters to the Editor, blog postings, letters to politicians, running
for office, what?  Why are we pro-gun? Just think they are neat, pureply
practical for self-defense against crime, protection against tyranny,
thinkliberty in all forms is good, stocking up because we are afraid republicans
will get back in the white house, why?








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The M1A is a great rifle.  The ergonomics are great, though I do need to add a
cheek rest.  The sights are very nice, nay they are better than nice.  It is a
satisfying chunk of gun, much heavier than the AR.  I have fired the FAL and M1A
and the M1A feels more accurate.  It feels more like a precision instrument. In
reality I have not really wrung out both rifles on accuracy.  I have not fired
either weapon beyond 200 yards.  I have fired the M1A at scaled targets to
simulate 400 yards and it answered the mail. As a person raised on the AR both
feel like heavy chunks of metal.  The weight helps with the recoil of the .308
though.

All in all the M1A may be a better shooters rifle, but in the end it was in
mainline service for a short amount of time.  The FAL was in service for so many
nations for so long that it has a feeling of history to me.   There is some
irony that the weapon that was the real rifle of democracy against the communist
horde was not American but Belgian.

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@...> wrote:
>
> Back to the M1A.
>
> Have you had a chance to shoot it?  Impressions?  Have you shot the FAL
before?  Comparisons?
>
> Regards,
>
> Xela
>
> --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@> wrote:
> >
> > Way to go.
> >
> > My wife does not frown upon the M1A.  She actually considers it a "real"
rifle.  Evil black rifles are another matter though.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I also feel like Suzie Orman is breathing down my neck when I
walk into a gunshop/pawnshop, "Do you really NEED that?  Or do you simply WANT
that?"
> >
> > X
> >
> > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001" <el_jefe99@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Xela;
> > >
> > > You are absolutely right, as usual, this is a gun forum.
> > >
> > > I had the foresight to pick up an M1A in early 2008 before the price
picked up.  In a bit of irony, I bought the M1A (which I love) because I couldnt
find an FAL in my area.  A short time later I went to a gun show on a lark and
found a gorgeous Standard FAL that looked exactly like an SLR, same furniture
and everything.  If I had known that gun prices were going to spike THIS bad I
would have snapped it up damn the cost.  Its cost then was less than an AR is
now. Sigh...
> > >
> > > For those who have always wondered, the M1A is a fine piece of machinery.
It feels modern enough to take seriously with a delightfully retro feel at the
same time with that Garand style action.  As a mechanically inept person I am in
awe of finely machined objects.
> > >
> > > Chem
> > >
> > > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > To follow chemsoldier's example from a while back.
> > > >
> > > > This is also a gun forum :)
> > > >
> > > > I'm wondering if I'm the only one kicking myself in the family jewels
(pardon ladies) for not buying that AK/AR/FAL/M1A rifle when I still could.
> > > >
> > > > I've been meaning to throw caution to the wind and go on a credit card
charging spree...but then cooler minds previals, mainly my wife's.
> > > >
> > > > Xela
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Any gun that shoots is good for marksmanship practice.  The pumpable and CO2
pellet guns are good for that.  I would also recommend you take a look at the
modern airsoft pistols out there.  In that I am talking about green gas powered
realistic replica guns with identical controls, triggers, weights and dimensions
to real handguns.  This allows you to branch out into practicing other skill
sets.

One frustration I have with dry fire is that I carry a Glock so I have to rack
the slide between every shot in dry practice.  With the airsoft I can do
multi-shot strings of fire.

Additionally the electric airsoft rifles are great for training on weapons
handling long arms.  The airsoft junkies are a little scary but as long as you
remember they are a training tool and not an end in and of themselves they are
great.

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, Roger Metzger <r.metzger44@...> wrote:
>
>      I'm no expert.  And yes, my wife and I shoot firearms too.  There are
> several advantages to practiing with .177-caliber airguns.  Single or
> mulit-pump pneumatics can be dry-fired without damage.  And they have the
> advantage that, under supervision, young people, or adults new to shooting,
> can begin by shooting "real" guns (real in the sense of shooting a hard
> projectile as opposed to Airsoft guns the kids are more likely to consider
> to be toys).  Except for the 1377, my five pneumatic pump guns have all been
> from Daisy Outdoor Products.  The only one I have worn out was the
> "remanufactured" 880 and that was after fireing it tens of thousands
> of times.
>      My Crossman 1377 seems to be well made, but the three Crossman CO2 guns
> I have had were of disappointing quality.
>      If you have or want guns for hunting or self-defence, I'd suggest
> practicing no more than 70% of the time with airguns.
> R.M.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:41 AM, chemsoldier2001 <el_jefe99@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Maybe it is because my gun collection has been at the size it needs to be
> > (though I would always like more), maybe it is because I am in the military,
> > but I have been on a training kick for the last few years. When I first got
> > into guns it was all about the metal (and wood and polymer) I read lots of
> > reviews and shot lots of different guns and was looking for those 1-4%
> > increases in performance.
> >
> > Now I am more into the software side. I train, I compete (when work allows)
> > and try to attend formalized trianing when circumstances (and money) allow.
> > Two easy things I would like the advocate to everyone is:
> >
> > 1. Dry fire- Once you know the basics and you have been shown how to do it
> > right, you can improve dramatically with dry fire practice in your own home.
> > With the exception of rimfires all modern quality handguns can be dry fired
> > thousands and thousands of time with no issues. However if you are anal you
> > can get snap caps. You would be amazed how much you can improve without
> > spending a dime or driving anywhere. Make sure the bloody gun is unloaded!
> >
> > 2. Airsoft- They are not cheap toys anymore. High end airsoft guns are the
> > same size, controls, some have the same triggers as real guns. The compact
> > glock airsoft I own is the same size, weight and controls of my carry gun.
> > It fits in the same holsters. I use it in my garage when I want to accuracy
> > check without a range trip. The pellets and gas cost peanuts. A great way to
> > practice perishable skills before you expend costly ammo at the range. I use
> > it to work on my one handed and weak handed shooting before I go to the
> > range. Saves me much embarassment.
> >
> > Anyone else with ideas or techniques to keep to the skills sharp?
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Well, if my hanging around email lists and forums for about 10 yrs. tells me
anything it's that we are quite a disparate group...brought together by common,
but strong, links (some of which you make reference to); and which is not unlike
the rest of America.

In my humble opinion though, we (gun toting liberals) are fundementally brought
together for our sense of alienation within the "mainstream" RKBA community, and
our sense of alienation from the so called liberal mainstream community.

But I'm no social scientist.

Xela


--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001" <el_jefe99@...>
wrote:

> So where do we pro-gun liberals stand?  I reckon we can go pretty far down the
pro-gun road before we start to have a problem. What can we agree on as far as
tactics, techniques and procedures for furthering a pro-gun liberal stance?  
Letters to the Editor, blog postings, letters to politicians, running for
office, what?  Why are we pro-gun? Just think they are neat, pureply practical
for self-defense against crime, protection against tyranny, thinkliberty in all
forms is good, stocking up because we are afraid republicans will get back in
the white house, why?
>

I thought about divesting myself of the group.  But libertarians are "classical
liberals" so I guess I am trying to take it back (tip of the hat to Clerks II).

Seriously though.  As a libertarian minded person (notice the small l) I find
myself agreeing with the "liberals" on many issues.  That and I am sick of the
stereotype of all gun owners being bible thumpers so I back any stereotype
breaking group...and a gun toting liberal is a stereotype defier.

I will argue about certain points till I am blue in the face but I am still
loyal to the group and its purpose.

I have called out the tea party types in my area who are Republicans.  I have
asked them, "Hey great to see you on this side of the issue, happy ot have you,
but where were you a year ago?"

I also would like to challenge the pro-gun progressive to stand up and say to
the media and their politicians, "Being a gun owner, owning semi-automatic
rifles and wantting to protect youself and your family does not make you a
racist, a paranoiac, a republican, an idiot or a bible thumper.  Mexico's
problems will not be solved from banning "assault weapons" nor will it stop
school shootings.  I am a gun owner, and I vote."

Put your politicians on notice that you will vote against them in the next
election if they support anti-gun legislation.  If you cant bring yourself to
vote for the local pro-gun candidate, vote against the incumbent anti-gunner by
voting for the challenging anti-gunner and let them know you are tryingto defeat
them because of guns.  As the scene goes in the movie "Stand By Me":
Ace: "What are you going to do, shoot all of us?"
Gordie: "No Ace, just you."

Libertarians constantly argue about minutiae (probably a reason I feel at home
here).  Most often we argue about at what point do you stop cutting the
government?  What is vital and what isnt.  Some just want a radically smaller
government say about the size of pre-new deal America.  Some of the Anarcho
Capitalists want a privatized police force and military and private professional
arbitators to replace courts.  But what we all agree on is that we can reduce
the size of government A LOT before we start to have menaingful conflict.

So where do we pro-gun liberals stand?  I reckon we can go pretty far down the
pro-gun road before we start to have a problem. What can we agree on as far as
tactics, techniques and procedures for furthering a pro-gun liberal stance?  
Letters to the Editor, blog postings, letters to politicians, running for
office, what?  Why are we pro-gun? Just think they are neat, pureply practical
for self-defense against crime, protection against tyranny, thinkliberty in all
forms is good, stocking up because we are afraid republicans will get back in
the white house, why?

I don't do much dry-fire anymore since I've managed to develop my skills
pretty well (http://www.ipsc.org/matchResult.php?ref=D41577547 ;-) ),
but when I was trying to get something grooved in, I'd do it for maybe
10 minutes at a time, then go away for a while and come back to it and
so on-- I found that better for me at skill building than long
sessions.  You can also mix it up with strong-hand/weak-hand/etc practice.

My personality finds traditional dry-fire to be tedious, so I tend to
avoid it these days and suffer through the 45+ minute drive to the range
instead.  If you can stand it, it's better and much cheaper to do more
dry-fire especially if you're working technique.  You don't even have to
work the trigger-- practice sight acquisition from various positions,
proper grip, sight picture, index, etc.  Robbie Leatham, ("the great
one") is pretty much always fiddling with a pistol in his spare time if
there's nobody around-- call him on the phone and you'll hear clicking
in the background...  Rumor has it Jerry Miculek the revolver god had a
revolver grip and frame welded to the dash of his truck so he could work
on trigger pulls while commuting (I think he had a driving-around job
back then).  Phil Strader rose from a nobody to an IPSC great by
shooting a few thousand rounds and dry-firing half a million.

By far the best at improving shooting skills and gun handling overall is
some sort of regular competition.   The learning curve is steep (and
scary when you see how good everybody else is) but you get better fast
and as I tell people "nobody else ever remembers your first match"

(btw: none of the shooting sports teach 'real street tactics' to any
extent, so take separate classes from good instructors for those.)

- Roy

Xela wrote:
> Thanks for the comment Roy.
>
> I use a dime or a penny :)
>
> How long do you do the exercises?  How often?  Or do you just keep going until
fatigue sets in?
>
> Xela
>
> --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, Roy <r@...> wrote:
>
>> My favorite drill for trigger control is to balance a coin flat on the
>> front sight and dry-fire without knocking it off.
>>
>> Xela wrote:
>>
>>> RE:  Dryfire
>>>
>>> Could you expand on your exercises?  How long do you do it per session?  How
many times a week/month/day?  Breathing?  Revolver/Auto?
>>>
>>> If auto, DA or SA?
>>>
>>> I've been trying to beat a bad case of the "jerking trigger".  Been shooting
at 7-8 o'clock at 7 yards.
>>>
>>> I'm kinda anal and use snapcaps.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the comment Roy.

I use a dime or a penny :)

How long do you do the exercises?  How often?  Or do you just keep going until
fatigue sets in?

Xela

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, Roy <r@...> wrote:
>
> My favorite drill for trigger control is to balance a coin flat on the
> front sight and dry-fire without knocking it off.
>
> Xela wrote:
> > RE:  Dryfire
> >
> > Could you expand on your exercises?  How long do you do it per session?  How
many times a week/month/day?  Breathing?  Revolver/Auto?
> >
> > If auto, DA or SA?
> >
> > I've been trying to beat a bad case of the "jerking trigger".  Been shooting
at 7-8 o'clock at 7 yards.
> >
> > I'm kinda anal and use snapcaps.
> >
> >
>

My favorite drill for trigger control is to balance a coin flat on the
front sight and dry-fire without knocking it off.

Xela wrote:
> RE:  Dryfire
>
> Could you expand on your exercises?  How long do you do it per session?  How
many times a week/month/day?  Breathing?  Revolver/Auto?
>
> If auto, DA or SA?
>
> I've been trying to beat a bad case of the "jerking trigger".  Been shooting
at 7-8 o'clock at 7 yards.
>
> I'm kinda anal and use snapcaps.
>
>

I have a nice CO2 Makarov as seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/safoocat/724521717/
It's just like the firearm version seen here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/safoocat/725390566/in/photostream/
 

One of the nice things about these point and click interfaces is that it's not
all that necessary to keep your skills sharp thought it's nice if that's your
interest.
A gun can be in the drawer by the bed for years unused and save your life
in a moment of peril without endless hours of practice.
 
I've not carried in quite awhile, since I took up photography actually. Now I
carry
a camera 24/7 and believe it or not there are lots of camera free zones
especially
after the Patriot Act. Cameras are very threatening to authority types and bad
guys.
 
Here is a picture of a man murdered for using his cell phone camera to
photograph
poluters:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/safoocat/2197743743/
 
While guns are important, I feel I can do more good with my camera than with my
gun
at this point in time. My guns mostly remain home, locked and loaded for that
time
when the camera needs backup.

Michelle Ress Felton, CA
 
http://safoocat.blogspot.com/

--- On Wed, 4/22/09, chemsoldier2001 <el_jefe99@...> wrote:


From: chemsoldier2001 <el_jefe99@...>
Subject: [guntotingliberals] Software over hardware
To: guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 7:41 AM





2. Airsoft-  They are not cheap toys anymore.  High end airsoft guns are the
same size, controls, some have the same triggers as real guns.  The compact
glock airsoft I own is the same size, weight and controls of my carry gun.  It
fits in the same holsters.  I use it in my garage when I want to accuracy check
without a range trip.  The pellets and gas cost peanuts.  A great way to
practice perishable skills before you expend costly ammo at the range.  I use it
to work on my one handed and weak handed shooting before I go to the range. 
Saves me much embarassment.

Anyone else with ideas or techniques to keep to the skills sharp? 








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE:  Dryfire

Could you expand on your exercises?  How long do you do it per session?  How
many times a week/month/day?  Breathing?  Revolver/Auto?

If auto, DA or SA?

I've been trying to beat a bad case of the "jerking trigger".  Been shooting at
7-8 o'clock at 7 yards.

I'm kinda anal and use snapcaps.

Yes, always check to make sure it's unloaded :)

Xela

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001" <el_jefe99@...>
wrote:
>
> Maybe it is because my gun collection has been at the size it needs to be
(though I would always like more), maybe it is because I am in the military, but
I have been on a training kick for the last few years.  When I first got into
guns it was all about the metal (and wood and polymer) I read lots of reviews
and shot lots of different guns and was looking for those 1-4% increases in
performance.
>
> Now I am more into the software side.  I train, I compete (when work allows)
and try to attend formalized trianing when circumstances (and money) allow.
> Two easy things I would like the advocate to everyone is:
>
> 1. Dry fire- Once you know the basics and you have been shown how to do it
right, you can improve dramatically with dry fire practice in your own home. 
With the exception of rimfires all modern quality handguns can be dry fired
thousands and thousands of time with no issues.  However if you are anal you can
get snap caps.  You would be amazed how much you can improve without spending a
dime or driving anywhere. Make sure the bloody gun is unloaded!
>
> 2. Airsoft-  They are not cheap toys anymore.  High end airsoft guns are the
same size, controls, some have the same triggers as real guns.  The compact
glock airsoft I own is the same size, weight and controls of my carry gun.  It
fits in the same holsters.  I use it in my garage when I want to accuracy check
without a range trip.  The pellets and gas cost peanuts.  A great way to
practice perishable skills before you expend costly ammo at the range.  I use it
to work on my one handed and weak handed shooting before I go to the range. 
Saves me much embarassment.
>
> Anyone else with ideas or techniques to keep to the skills sharp?
>

I'm no expert.  And yes, my wife and I shoot firearms too.  There are
several advantages to practiing with .177-caliber airguns.  Single or
mulit-pump pneumatics can be dry-fired without damage.  And they have the
advantage that, under supervision, young people, or adults new to shooting,
can begin by shooting "real" guns (real in the sense of shooting a hard
projectile as opposed to Airsoft guns the kids are more likely to consider
to be toys).  Except for the 1377, my five pneumatic pump guns have all been
from Daisy Outdoor Products.  The only one I have worn out was the
"remanufactured" 880 and that was after fireing it tens of thousands
of times.
      My Crossman 1377 seems to be well made, but the three Crossman CO2 guns
I have had were of disappointing quality.
      If you have or want guns for hunting or self-defence, I'd suggest
practicing no more than 70% of the time with airguns.
R.M.


On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:41 AM, chemsoldier2001 <el_jefe99@...>wrote:

>
>
> Maybe it is because my gun collection has been at the size it needs to be
> (though I would always like more), maybe it is because I am in the military,
> but I have been on a training kick for the last few years. When I first got
> into guns it was all about the metal (and wood and polymer) I read lots of
> reviews and shot lots of different guns and was looking for those 1-4%
> increases in performance.
>
> Now I am more into the software side. I train, I compete (when work allows)
> and try to attend formalized trianing when circumstances (and money) allow.
> Two easy things I would like the advocate to everyone is:
>
> 1. Dry fire- Once you know the basics and you have been shown how to do it
> right, you can improve dramatically with dry fire practice in your own home.
> With the exception of rimfires all modern quality handguns can be dry fired
> thousands and thousands of time with no issues. However if you are anal you
> can get snap caps. You would be amazed how much you can improve without
> spending a dime or driving anywhere. Make sure the bloody gun is unloaded!
>
> 2. Airsoft- They are not cheap toys anymore. High end airsoft guns are the
> same size, controls, some have the same triggers as real guns. The compact
> glock airsoft I own is the same size, weight and controls of my carry gun.
> It fits in the same holsters. I use it in my garage when I want to accuracy
> check without a range trip. The pellets and gas cost peanuts. A great way to
> practice perishable skills before you expend costly ammo at the range. I use
> it to work on my one handed and weak handed shooting before I go to the
> range. Saves me much embarassment.
>
> Anyone else with ideas or techniques to keep to the skills sharp?
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I heartily agree on ending the war on drugs.  If people want to do something
about reducing gun crime lets take all the prosecutors who are deluged under all
the drug cases and put them on attempts to by guns by unauthorized persons. 
NICS catches thousands of people a year who should not be purchasing firearms. 
Yet less than 30 get prosecuted.  A felon who even attempts to buy a gun is
guilty of a felony and is eligable for a 10 year all expenses paid vacation to
prison.  Couple that with attempting to come down harder in general on criminals
who commit crime with firearms as opposed to other weapons and I think you could
have a real impact on gun crime.  Many criminals are not wedded to guns, look at
the number that commit robberies with empty guns since they dont want to risk a
1st degree murder rap.




--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, Michelle M Ress <Safoocat@...> wrote:
>
> In California they have too many people in  prison. That costs too much
especially with them getting older. Along with decreasing the military we need
to end the war on some
> drugs.
>
>
> Michelle Ress Felton, CA
>  
> http://safoocat.blogspot.com/
>

Back to the M1A.

Have you had a chance to shoot it?  Impressions?  Have you shot the FAL before? 
Comparisons?

Regards,

Xela

--- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@...> wrote:
>
> Way to go.
>
> My wife does not frown upon the M1A.  She actually considers it a "real"
rifle.  Evil black rifles are another matter though.
>
> Unfortunately, I also feel like Suzie Orman is breathing down my neck when I
walk into a gunshop/pawnshop, "Do you really NEED that?  Or do you simply WANT
that?"
>
> X
>
> --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "chemsoldier2001" <el_jefe99@>
wrote:
> >
> > Xela;
> >
> > You are absolutely right, as usual, this is a gun forum.
> >
> > I had the foresight to pick up an M1A in early 2008 before the price picked
up.  In a bit of irony, I bought the M1A (which I love) because I couldnt find
an FAL in my area.  A short time later I went to a gun show on a lark and found
a gorgeous Standard FAL that looked exactly like an SLR, same furniture and
everything.  If I had known that gun prices were going to spike THIS bad I would
have snapped it up damn the cost.  Its cost then was less than an AR is now.
Sigh...
> >
> > For those who have always wondered, the M1A is a fine piece of machinery. It
feels modern enough to take seriously with a delightfully retro feel at the same
time with that Garand style action.  As a mechanically inept person I am in awe
of finely machined objects.
> >
> > Chem
> >
> > --- In guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com, "Xela" <julcaesar@> wrote:
> > >
> > > To follow chemsoldier's example from a while back.
> > >
> > > This is also a gun forum :)
> > >
> > > I'm wondering if I'm the only one kicking myself in the family jewels
(pardon ladies) for not buying that AK/AR/FAL/M1A rifle when I still could.
> > >
> > > I've been meaning to throw caution to the wind and go on a credit card
charging spree...but then cooler minds previals, mainly my wife's.
> > >
> > > Xela
> > >
> >
>