I got this idea off the Outdoor Wire. A paramedic came up with it. He realized
that in emergency situations, people often had cell phones that could have been
used to find friends or relatives who should be contacted or that might even be
able to help in various ways. But these days, most people¢s cell phones have so
many numbers on them, figuring out who should be called first is next to
impossible. So he suggested that everyone who has a cell phone should list a
number as ICE (In Case of Emergency). That way paramedics or other emergency
responders could at least try to contact whoever is listed that way. If a
person wants to list more than one ICE number, the numbers could be listed as
ICE1, ICE2, ICE3, etc.
Great Idea! Now why didn¢t I think of that?
Roger Metzger



----- Original Message ----
From: "Brandon.Chase@..." <Brandon.Chase@...>
To: guntotingliberals@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:03:20 PM
Subject: Re: [guntotingliberals] Just joining

Hey Abel,

Welcome to the group. Wish we had a concrete answer for ya as to why so
many liberals are so rabid about gun control, but alas, its a mystery to
us as well. Well, not entirely a mystery. Liberals are people too, and
as such, are just as likely to fall into the ethical, emotional, and
spiritual conundrum of "what is right, what is wrong, and why do i
believe that?" as our conservative brethren.

In my experience, most people don't come up with their ethical and moral
code all by themselves. We're social creatures, and many of us (to some
degree or another) look to our family, friends, and the culture with
which we identify to provide us with guidance in that regard.

For example, as you might expect, most of my friends are liberal, and
every single one of them would look at me with horror/disgust when I
first started to bring up guns and shooting in conversation. They would
spout all the usual liberal ideas on gun control....that they should be
illegal, that only cops should have guns, and that the world would be a
much safer place if private gun ownership was outlawed. At that point,
I would usually ask them questions such as:

"Have you ever fired a gun?"
"Are you afraid of guns?"
"Do you think a person has a right to defend themselves if their home is
invaded?"
"Do you think hunting is morally wrong?"

That last one is my favorite, as most of my friends are NOT
vegetarians. They'd tell me that hunting is wrong, but they eat meat,
so the hypocrisy becomes pretty easy to dissect, i.e. "At least I kill
the animals myself....you just hire a hitman." And its not that these
people aren't intelligent. They are, but they've simply never
challenged their beliefs in regard to firearms. Once you start pointing
out said hypocrisy, they either "get it", or they stop arguing. Either
way, you've pointed out the flaw in their "logic," and possibly helped
them on their way to a more rational view of the subject.

The point, however, is not to prove them wrong. The point is to help
them realize that they haven't really ever thought about the subject
rationally, they've just adopted the traditional values espoused by the
liberal majority. So, we talk some more, and then I ask 'em the big
question:

"If you were locked in a room with a serial killer and a gun, but you
could only remove one thing, which would you remove, the serial killer,
or the gun?"

At which point they admit that yes, better to deal with the serial
killer instead of the inanimate object lying on the floor, and
eventually they come to realize that even if they got rid of every
single gun on the planet, the world would still be full of psychotic
lowlifes hell bent on killing their fellow man, and perhaps it would be
better to deal with the psychotic lowlifes instead of wasting time
trying to limit people's ability to defend themselves.

Then, of course, you take 'em to the range, and they get all excited,
and pretty soon you're going to the gun shop to help them buy their
first gun. This has happened with no less than seven of my friends, and
every single one of them was vehemently opposed to guns and gun
ownership before we started talking about it.

And the funniest thing about it? Every single one of them doesn't even
acknowledge that they didn't support gun ownership in the past. That's
people for ya :)

Cheers,

Brandon

abel ferreira wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm glad that I found this group. I'm looking forward to be able to
> have discussions about guns and not having to fraternize with
> reactionaries, espousing the typical right-wing rhetoric; although
> there is a kernal of truth to many of their statements.
> There is an undeserving stigma attached to people who enjoy shooting.
> I own guns for many reasons, the least of which being self defense. I
> go to the range every weekend and to me it's my form of yoga. I find
> it the ultimate zen.
> What I don't understand is why the left hates guns. Are these people
> the mainstream limousine liberals playing on the fears of suburban
> soccer moms? It appears so. It for the most part seems like a feel
> good cause where the elite can play on the publics' worst fears.
> Anti-gun rights activists use identical tactics and propaganda as does
> the the Christian right. Showing discarded fetuses in garbage can is
> the same as trumping up sensationalized cases of gun violence, as the
> bombardment of images of emergency room gunshot victims or Million Mom
> March blanket statements. Why are so many people who label themselves
> as liberals, and who espouse an inherent mistrust of authority, so
> willing to forfeit a constitutional right and surrender themselves to
> absolute power. Remember it's the Second Amendment that gives the
> First Amendment teeth. If you truly want to bow down to tyrany, start
> with the banning of guns.
> The misleading and distorted information can be exemplified in stories
> like Columbine or even VT. 3,500 died at the hands of 16 men with
> Xacto knives, and 160 died from a bomb made with items bought at a
> feed-store. In the case Columbine, the shooters were not even old
> enough to legally own guns. The means is not the cause of violence. It
> is as if people view guns as having this supernatural power over
> people, in possessing them into doing violent things. They think an
> exorcism on society of this demonic force is to take them out of the
> hands of everyone, including law-abiding citizens.
> If you dig deep into the issue of gun control you will find to far
> more nebulous than you ever expected. Ronald Reagan, the messiah of
> the right, passed one of the most sweeping gun control laws in modern
> history, when serving as governor of California. This law was
> glaringly obvious in that it was solely designed to keep guns out of
> the hands of African Americans during the height of the Black Panther
> Movement.
> I am completely aware that I am preaching to the choir here, but I
> hope I have found a group that share my fundamental beliefs.
> Next posting I will stick tech geek stuff, like my brand new
> Springfield Mil Spec 1911.-A
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ---
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Brandon Chase
US Channel Finance

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd.
Broomfield, CO 80021

phone: 303.547.3535
internal extension: 41862
brandon.chase@ sun.com

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