For starters, the general concern with U.S. Futsal is
that they're more interested in controlling futsal
than they are in developing it. The general feeling is
that futsal in the U.S. is way behind where it should
be by now.

--- klunker59 <tmacdougall@...> wrote:
> Greetings
>
> From some of the posts here ... and one called
> joking.html on
> futsalonline.com ... I get the impression that there
> are some
> political issues with regards to USFF.
>
> Fill this newbie in on political realities of Futsal
> in the US.  My
> interest is mostly in the youth age level but any
> information would
> be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>


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For starters, the general concern with U.S. Futsal is
that they're more interested in controlling futsal
than they are in developing it. The general feeling is
that futsal in the U.S. is way behind where it should
be by now.

--- klunker59 <tmacdougall@...> wrote:
> Greetings
>
> From some of the posts here ... and one called
> joking.html on
> futsalonline.com ... I get the impression that there
> are some
> political issues with regards to USFF.
>
> Fill this newbie in on political realities of Futsal
> in the US.  My
> interest is mostly in the youth age level but any
> information would
> be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>


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Greetings

From some of the posts here ... and one called joking.html on
futsalonline.com ... I get the impression that there are some
political issues with regards to USFF.

Fill this newbie in on political realities of Futsal in the US. My
interest is mostly in the youth age level but any information would
be appreciated.

Thanks

The only way I see this working is if USL brings back the I-League,
and goes with futsal.  I don't know if this would work, though, since
many USL (especially A-League) players play in the MISL in the off-
season.  To keep a team together for a 12-20 game futsal season might
be too much to handle.

The PFL was a lost cause from the get-go.  I admire what Scott Plesek
and his group was trying to do, but it was destined to fail anyway
due the semi-pro level of play.  It would be nice to have a league
made up of both A-League and MLS players, and slowly work to having
futsal-exclusive teams, but it would take some time.  Meanwhile, we
risk being beaten in the CONCACAF qualifier by countries whose entire
male population make up their national team (just kidding :)).
Somebody is going to have to step out of the blue and do it, because
it'll never happen at the rate we're going.

My vote would be for a barnstorm series with some the world's top
teams, playing in places that are receptive to futsal, or at least
tolerant.  Sell it as a real inner-city game, that could be played on
basketball courts, and promote the crap out of it.  Get Disney
interested, and Nike as well.  Then, go all out after a year or two
of this, and hit it full blast, similar to what the NPSL/USA did
after the '66 WC, in the wake of Bill Cox's International Soccer
League.

Either that, or my previous suggestion of resurrection the I-League
as a futsal league.



--- In futsalonline_newsgroup@yahoogroups.com, tim sheldon
<timsheldon99@y...> wrote:
> John Kowalski got some good results from the wall game
> players. But the rest of the world caught up and
> passed us by. We need a pro futsal league. It would be
> very doable if kept simple.
>
>
> --- dave_o_1999 <david0@b...> wrote:
> > Well, in that case, if it's like last time, we're
> > screwed.
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
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John Kowalski got some good results from the wall game
players. But the rest of the world caught up and
passed us by. We need a pro futsal league. It would be
very doable if kept simple.


--- dave_o_1999 <david0@...> wrote:
> Well, in that case, if it's like last time, we're
> screwed.
>
>


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Well, in that case, if it's like last time, we're screwed.

I'll be coached by Keith Tozer and consist of pro wall
game players. U.S. still doesn't have a league of any
sort to produce real futsal players.


--- dave_o_1999 <david0@...> wrote:
> Anybody have a heads-up on what the national team
> will look like?  I
> know they're playing in the tourney at Anaheim, but
> that's all I
> know.  It's funny, but it'll probably be stocked
> with players from
> the MISL, a league that, to my knowledge, is not
> affiliated with
> USFF.  How do they get around that?  Sounds rather
> counter-productive
> to me ;-).
>
>


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Launching an national association could be helpful.

--- Paul Baker <psb7508@...> wrote:
> You did a great job.  Now that you are over 120
> teams you will have a "sales force" working for you.
>  We went from 140 teams to 250 teams and levelled
> out.  We didn't have to work nearly as hard to get
> there.
>
> j Ce <sumkinaguy@...> wrote:Thanks,  This is
> my first year and we have 131 teams
> in the Gateway Futsal League.  I owe much to Jon
> Parry
> for guidance and use of his ideas.  WIthout him, I
> would not have been able to do it, but it takes a
> tremendous amount of marketing
>
> got get those results.
> --- tim sheldon <timsheldon99@...> wrote:
> > You're a good source for anyone wanting to launch
> a
> > futsal program in the U.S.
> >
> > __________________________________
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Thanks,  This is my first year and we have 131 teams
in the Gateway Futsal League.  I owe much to Jon Parry
for guidance and use of his ideas.  WIthout him, I
would not have been able to do it, but it takes a
tremendous amount of marketing

  got get those results.
--- tim sheldon <timsheldon99@...> wrote:
> You're a good source for anyone wanting to launch a
> futsal program in the U.S.
>
> __________________________________
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Anybody have a heads-up on what the national team will look like?  I
know they're playing in the tourney at Anaheim, but that's all I
know.  It's funny, but it'll probably be stocked with players from
the MISL, a league that, to my knowledge, is not affiliated with
USFF.  How do they get around that?  Sounds rather counter-productive
to me ;-).

Note: forwarded message attached.


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Mr Sheldon,

Could you please put the following message onto your letters board:

My name is Simon Pizzey and I am President of York University Futsal
Club. We are looking to organise a tour to somewhere in Europe sometime
around the middle of March 2004, hopefully playing a few games and also
watching a professional match if possible. If anyone is interested I
would be very grateful for any information which could help us set up a
tour.

simonpizzey@...

-----Original Message-----
From: tim sheldon [mailto:timsheldon99@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 9:01 PM
To: futsalonline_newsgroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [futsalonline_newsgroup] Question from a Futsal Referee

From: "vahid molaie" <vahidmolaie@...> | Add to Address Book
To: timsheldon99@...
Subject: question from a futsal referee
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:57:08 -0500
      



hi i am vahid molaie from iran. i am soccer referee with degree 2.
please answer to my question.i need to this answer.my question is
about futsal rules:

Q: the ball is in play and goalkeeper keeping the ball with his hand
in his goal area and then throw it with his hand into opponent s
goal. what is the restart of play?




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I'm checking on this with a couple of people. But, if
one goalkeeper throws the ball the length of the
court, there would be no goal. The play would re-start
with a goal throw by the other goalkeeper.

However, if the ball hits a defender and goes into the
goal, it would be a goal.

In the original FIFUSA rules, the goalkeeper could not
throw the ball beyond the halfway line. I personally
liked this rule.

--- vahid molaie <vahidmolaie@...> wrote:
> hi i am vahid molaie from iran. i am soccer referee
> with degree 2. please answer to my question.i need
> to this answer.my question is about futsal rules:
>
> Q: the ball is in play and goalkeeper keeping the
> ball with his hand in his goal area and then throw
> it with his hand into opponent s goal. what is the
> restart of play?
>


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From: "Miles Lovelace" <mlovelace@...> | Add to Address
Book
To: "'timsheldon99@...'" <timsheldon99@...>
Subject: Futsal League in San Diego
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:58:01 -0800




Hi,

What can you tell me about the possibility that there will be a
futsal league in San Diego?

My daughter was part of a U12 team from San Diego that placed 2nd
(lost in sudden death OT in the Finals) in this year's Futsal
Nationals in Anaheim.  She & several of her competitive teammates
would love to participate in a league of this type, great for skill-
building.

Can you give me the details of your plans?  When? Where? Will there
be youth age groups, etc.?

Thanks, Miles Lovelace

From: "vahid molaie" <vahidmolaie@...> | Add to Address Book
To: timsheldon99@...
Subject: question from a futsal referee
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:57:08 -0500




hi i am vahid molaie from iran. i am soccer referee with degree 2.
please answer to my question.i need to this answer.my question is
about futsal rules:

Q: the ball is in play and goalkeeper keeping the ball with his hand
in his goal area and then throw it with his hand into opponent s
goal. what is the restart of play?

I don't believe so.

--- Paul Baker <psb7508@...> wrote:
> Has Alex copyrighted the word Minisoccer.
>
> tim sheldon <timsheldon99@...> wrote:See
>
http://www.geocities.com/timsheldon.geo/milestones.html#Yick.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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> Terms of Service.
>
>
>
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See http://www.geocities.com/timsheldon.geo/milestones.html#Yick.

You're a good source for anyone wanting to launch a
futsal program in the U.S.

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Futsal has only just begun.  The growth potential for this sport is
phenomenal in comparison to any other indoor soccer game now played
in the United States.   Futsal combines soccer -the most popular
sport now played in Kansas City with Basketball, the most publicly
subsidized sport in the United States.  There are over 70,000
gymnasiums in the United States.  They are in every neighborhood and
have been paid for by us- taxpayers.  Indoor soccer is played in
approximately 300 facilities that are privately financed.   Indoor
soccer facilities are notorious for there failure rate. Would you
invest over $1,000,000 dollars of your own money to build a new
indoor soccer facility when, you know that any area soccer club can
start a Futsal program with virtually no start-up capital required
and be able to play a game (futsal) that is cheaper to play and is
better for player development competing for the same customer as an
indoor facility owner ?   The only logical growth vehicle to handle
America's burgeoning interest in year-round soccer is Futsal.  The
facilities are already built.

Before I go on to describe just how we started the non-profit Kansas
City Futsal club 7 years ago without any money and gave thousands of
kids an opportunity to sharpen their soccer skills on a year around
basis, I want to answer the question I know you are asking.  How can
I get into the local school gym with my team?  You are not the first
person to have this problem.  This problem was first encountered in
the 1970's when outdoor soccer began its unprecedented growth in the
area.  At that time old-timers tell me that the area schools didn't
want to have soccer teams practicing on their football fields.  Over
time Parents began to insist that school districts open up our
publicly owned facilities to outdoor soccer.  Slowly but surely
school facilities opened up to our soccer teams.  The same thing will
happen for our Futsal teams.  Remember soccer parents are taxpayers
also.  Insist on your rights.  Because someone insisted,  Futsal is
played in the Olathe and Blue Valley School Districts, Johnson County
Parks and Recreation, Lenexa Parks and Recreation, Shawnee Parks and
Recreation, Johnson County Community College as well as numerous
parochial and church gyms.   Support your childs interests.

When we started the Kansas City Futsal Club 7 years ago, no one in
Kansas City had ever heard of Futsal.  Through a lot of peoples
efforts, diligence and good fortune it has grown into one of the
largest Futsal programs in the United States.

The process of introducing Futsal in Kansas City is not very
different from the process of introducing any other product such as
Apple Computers or cellular service or shaving cream.  Like any
entrepreneurial effort the first and foremost skill is marketing.
You must get customers.  You must educate, cajole and call in every
chit.  Every marketeer has to be aware of the Product Life Cycle, an
illustration of which is shown below.  One's marketing strategy
changes as one adjusts to the customer type - early adaptors,
innovators, mainstream and laggards.




                               Product Life Cycle as Applied to the

                           Kansas City Futsal Clubs Growth History


I believe the product life cycle can be applied anywhere. In the
start-up phase identify your early adaptors, those most likely to try
something new. Early adaptors are confident in their knowledge of the
game of soccer and are the types of people who don't require parental
support to make a decision as to what is best for the players.  They
did not see the benefits of traditional walled indoor soccer and were
open to discovering new methods of training players.  Early adaptors
are "leaders", not followers.  In our league we relied on these early
adaptor types in years 1 & 2 when we had 5 and 18 teams
respectively.  Coincidentally many of these early adaptors have
stayed with us over the years.  We have players who have been playing
futsal for 6 years.  Our U-17 boys team is currently in 2nd place in
our very strong open mens division.

During the introductory phase, you must focus on building "brand
awareness" - what is futsal.  Define your product. Find and use the
best facilities, get the best referee assignor/ trainer in the
business.  You also need to make some money to use for future growth
ie. Futal goals cost around $1,000 - $1,200 a set.  When you are
small in numbers appear big.  Build a website- your club office.
Find more teams and begin forming divisions of at least four teams
each based on ability.  (Many are tempted to start playing with teams
of unequal ability-this is a mistake in that all those who
participate get frustrated).  Sign-ups should be done on a team basis
rather than an individual basis.  Its better at this point to tell
teams "no", rather than take teams who will have a bad experience and
then bad mouth you.   Realize a slightly smaller quality program is
better than a large weak program.  Strive to run a quality program.
Any new sport will have detractors that can ruin you, if there is a
perception that things are not being run right.   Good word of mouth
is the goal.  The sport will sell itself if you don't do things to
get in its way like not schedule games appropriately, referee
misunderstandings, poor communication and facility issues.

In the growth phase the innovators came in next.  Typically they
consisted of teams that wanted to see if we had our act together and
get feedback from the early adaptors.  They were teams that were
willing to try something different and had been struggling against
top level competition.  They were looking for an edge that would give
them more confidence to play well against the teams they were trying
to compete with.  In Kansas City they were typically parent coached
teams playing competitively.  Typically, these parents were "ground
zero", they had never played soccer themselves and thus had no ties
to a tradition of teaching and training and therefore were more
willing to try different approaches.  These parent coaches were
sometimes a bit insecure and needed a little "hand holding" and
reassurances to get them to try the sport of futsal.  But once they
tried it, the teaching benefits of the game relieved them of much of
the burden of teaching.   Instead, through futsal the game became the
best teacher.  We got both parent coached teams (maybe the coach had
playing experience) and some professionally coached club teams.
Years 3 and 4. Amount of teams in our league: 57, 140.

The growth phase may be stunted if you can't find enough facilities.
Spend extra time finding new facilities preparing for your most
dramatic period of growth.  Make extra money and use it to advertise
and provide for future growth.  Build into your fees enough money to
provide every participant with a free t-shirt.  Walking billboards
will be your #1 advertisement. Our t-shirts seemed to be the garb of
choice at summer soccer camps, provoking many opportunities to define
our brand and build brand loyalty.  Look for "free" opportunities to
spread your message with your "target" market- competitive outdoor
soccer teams.  Start your first futsal tournament.  Tournaments are a
great prospecting tool as teams must commit themselves to one weekend
rather than a whole season.  It gives people a chance to try it
out.   Maintaining your league quality standards in the midst of this
growth is a big challenge.  Your earlier decision to find the best
referee assignor/ trainer will now be rewarded.  The bigger you get
the more work.  Prepare to work hard to keep up.  A properly designed
website relieves you of many administrative burdens and keeps phone
calls to a minimum.


In the growth/ maturity phase the mainstream came in next.  These
were typically teams coached by professional coaches and established
club teams.  They were not going to try anything new without seeing
the benefit to themselves and had assured themselves that our league
had its act together before spending there parents money and
resources. They understood soccer and had thought they knew
everything about the sport.  Initially, they had never heard of
futsal and therefore, were very suspicious.  They have established
training standards.  Many times this group tried futsal due to
parental pressure. These parents had other children already playing
futsal and these parents said good things about the sport and what it
had done for the other children.  They pressured the coach to give it
a try with the subliminal message being "or maybe we will have our
child go to another team that does play futsal".  Parents in general
were concerned with the injury rate of American Indoor Soccer and the
monopolistic, heavy handedness these facilities operated on.  For us
they came in year 5 when we went to 250 .
With all of these teams you can finally hire some help.  Money must
now go to keeping up with the administrative burden of running a
league.  It is has become too much for an all volunteer board.  Find
a professional to manage the league.  The administrator should be a
full-time, seasonal type of worker.  We found such a person in the
local college soccer coaching ranks.  Jon Parry spent 10 years
playing professional indoor soccer and had been a member of the US
National Futsal Team.  He had brought all of the youth teams he was
coaching into our league two years before.  He is enthusiastic,
entrepreneurial and customer oriented.


Finally, this year we saw the laggards in the maturity/ decline
phase.  These teams were professionally coached and had established
training patterns.  These clubs had achieved a great deal of success
in American Indoor Soccer.  They did not want to change.  However, a
big part of their competition had moved to our facility.  Parents
were saying good things about us.  They wanted to see for
themselves.  Year 7 when we finally stabilized at 244 teams.

Businesses die out if they do not meet the changing needs of  its
customers.  New businesses inevitably will start-up to meet the new
demand and just because you are first doesn't necessarily mean you
will always stay on top.  We must keep working at it.  A new "growth"
phase may be just around the corner.  Set money aside to help deal
with any facility issues.

I think that we finally have introduced the sport of Futsal to Kansas
City.  Every major club has several teams playing in our league.  The
sport can now be evaluated on its true merits.  I see the next
several years being a philosophical war between the merits of
American Indoor Soccer and Futsal.  My bet is on Futsal. Again, I
want to thank all of you for supporting our Futsal program in Kansas
City.  It is now in very capable hands with Steve Sawtelle, one of my
early adaptors and founding board member and Jon Parry who joined us
in our early growth phase.

Why start a futsal league.  Its a lot of work.  I am reminded what
Warren Buffet, Berkshire Hathaway's President and the 2nd richest man
in the world said,  If we are lucky we have one good idea for a
business in a lifetime.  Very fortunate people get 2 and many don't
get any.  Starting Futsal in Kansas City was my great idea.  I knew I
could do it and I passionately believed in the potential of this
sport.  Although, I didn't get rich (I know I lost money on long
distance phone calls that I didn't get re-imbursed for).  I
considered the experience to be one of the great successes in my
life.  I was able to truly serve my community and create something of
enduring value.  I believe I will one day get to see my grandchildren
play futsal in the Kansas City Futsal League and that makes me a much
richer man than all of the naysayers who kept telling me it couldn't
be done along the way.

It looks as if http://www.usafutsal.com is off to a
good start. With this kind of communication, we have a
real good chance of bringing about some changes in
U.S. Futsal.

--- psb7508 <psb7508@...> wrote:
> I never felt a part of the mostly Asian/ Australian
> Website Futsal
> English.  Great Idea.  Lets get this thing going.
> Did everyone
> review the following website:   www.usafutsal.com .
> It looks like
> someone else is fed up with USFF.
>
>


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I never felt a part of the mostly Asian/ Australian Website Futsal
English.  Great Idea.  Lets get this thing going.  Did everyone
review the following website:   www.usafutsal.com .  It looks like
someone else is fed up with USFF.

That's what happened. Nothing, essentially, except for
a years-long attempt by one person to control the
sport. The communication we're doing now should lead
to real change.


--- david0@... wrote:
> After reading the milestones of futsal over the
> years, I have to ask.  What happened to all the
> sponsorships, and the alliance with AYSO, over the
> years?  Have they been done away with now?  It looks
> like minisoccer, as it was called then, was well on
> its way, but now, contrary to all the "yes-men,"
> seems to have stagnated.
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
See
http://www.geocities.com/timsheldon.geo/milestones.html
for
stories on the early development of Futsal in the U.S.
The best years
were right at the beginning, when U.S. Minisoccer
Federation
President Osvaldo Garcia and Vice President/Marketing
Jorge Bordt
were, among other things, aligning with the Boys and
Girls Clubs of
America, working on an ACC women's Futsal tournament,
conducting
workshops in Kansas City and gaining sponsorship from
Levi Strauss.

I was associate editor of Soccer America at the time
and giving
Futsal as much coverage as I could, because I felt it
was one of the
best sports I'd ever seen, of any kind.

I hope we're able to regain that energy and bring
Futsal to a new
level in the U.S. In order to do so, we need good
communication, and
I hope this newsgroup helps a little.

We need action to improve the leadership of Futsal in
the U.S. The
talk won't amount to much unless we get the action.




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After reading the milestones of futsal over the years, I have to ask.  What
happened to all the sponsorships, and the alliance with AYSO, over the years? 
Have they been done away with now?  It looks like minisoccer, as it was called
then, was well on its way, but now, contrary to all the "yes-men," seems to have
stagnated.

The futsal subject matter could be just about anything in this
newsgroup, but my emphasis will be on the advancement of futsal in
the U.S.

Futsal started out well in the early 1980s but has had its problems
since then. We seemed to be in the forefront at one point, and then I
looked around and the world was passing us by.

We need good communication leading to real action to provide more
responsible leadership for futsal in the U.S. That's my basic focus.

See http://www.geocities.com/timsheldon.geo/milestones.html for
stories on the early development of Futsal in the U.S. The best years
were right at the beginning, when U.S. Minisoccer Federation
President Osvaldo Garcia and Vice President/Marketing Jorge Bordt
were, among other things, aligning with the Boys and Girls Clubs of
America, working on an ACC women's Futsal tournament, conducting
workshops in Kansas City and gaining sponsorship from Levi Strauss.

I was associate editor of Soccer America at the time and giving
Futsal as much coverage as I could, because I felt it was one of the
best sports I'd ever seen, of any kind.

I hope we're able to regain that energy and bring Futsal to a new
level in the U.S. In order to do so, we need good communication, and
I hope this newsgroup helps a little.

We need action to improve the leadership of Futsal in the U.S. The
talk won't amount to much unless we get the action.

It works, thanks.

--- tim sheldon <timsheldon99@...> wrote:
> testing newsgroup address
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

testing newsgroup address

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

This is a good idea for a newsgroup. I hope it's of some benefit to
futsal fans around the world.