FYI - amy



---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: chuck davis <dang.chuck@...>

Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

To: obs <ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com>, BLN <BLN@yahoogroups.com>, TAT <

TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com>, Tulsa Wheelmen <wheelmen@yahoogroups.com>, OBL <

okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com>, TeamBikeBuddies <

TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com>





I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"



I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM



...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine) claim

to be nationally 3rd!



Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

more of a bitching exercise than anything else



In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter, the

below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot violation

butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"



“Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation







Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoon of

April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm with

his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be in

the road.







The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a $137

traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation also

known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the motorist

with driving to endanger,  a criminal offense.”





BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6



--

Chuck Davis

OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

Tulsa, OK



When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:



http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/

http://okvelo.blogspot.com/

http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







------------------------------------



Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicyclesociety.com

----------------------------------

NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

   ok-bike-society-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by roadies who

insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a conversation and

then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!









________________________________

From: Amy Cooper <sandbox@...>

To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule



FYI - amy



---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: chuck davis <dang.chuck@...>

Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

To: obs <ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com>, BLN <BLN@yahoogroups.com>, TAT <

TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com>, Tulsa Wheelmen <wheelmen@yahoogroups.com>, OBL <

okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com>, TeamBikeBuddies <

TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com>





I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"



I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM



...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine) claim

to be nationally 3rd!



Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

more of a bitching exercise than anything else



In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter, the

below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot violation

butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"



“Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation







Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoon of

April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm with

his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be in

the road.







The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a $137

traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation also

known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the motorist

with driving to endanger,  a criminal offense.”





BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6



--

Chuck Davis

OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

Tulsa, OK



When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:



http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/

http://okvelo.blogspot.com/

http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







------------------------------------



Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicyclesociety.com

----------------------------------

NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

   ok-bike-society-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







------------------------------------



----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

http://www.okearthbike.com



To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike

-----------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five

abreast as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of most

infractions as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of the

time as well. If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them" things

would probably go a lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to police ourselves,

and ride according to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of angry drivers.

     E

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: chris pittman

   To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

   Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

   Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule











   Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by roadies

who insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a conversation and

then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!



   ________________________________

   From: Amy Cooper <sandbox@...>

   To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

   Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

   Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule



   FYI - amy



   ---------- Forwarded message ----------

   From: chuck davis <dang.chuck@...>

   Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

   Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

   To: obs <ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com>, BLN <BLN@yahoogroups.com>, TAT <

   TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com>, Tulsa Wheelmen <wheelmen@yahoogroups.com>, OBL <

   okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com>, TeamBikeBuddies <

   TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com>



   I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

   country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"



   I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

   groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM



   ...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine) claim

   to be nationally 3rd!



   Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

   past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

   more of a bitching exercise than anything else



   In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter, the

   below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot violation

   butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"



   “Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation



   Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

   law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

   bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoon of

   April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm with

   his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be in

   the road.



   The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a $137

   traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

   Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation also

   known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the motorist

   with driving to endanger, a criminal offense.”



   BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6



   --

   Chuck Davis

   OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

   Tulsa, OK



   When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

   dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:



   http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/

   http://okvelo.blogspot.com/

   http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/



   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------



   Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicyclesociety.com

   ----------------------------------

   NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

   ok-bike-society-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links



   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------



   ----------------------------------------------------------

   ----------------------------------------------------------

   http://www.okearthbike.com



   To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike

   ----------------------------------------------------------

   ----------------------------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links



   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can ride two abreast, but you also cannot impede the flow of traffic and

must yield when that's the case.  That goes for a single cyclist as well as two

abreast.





Laws aside, it's just common courtesy to get single file for traffic.  Since I

started cycling 24 years ago, I've seen a really bad degradation of cyclists'

skills and roadside manners.  I love road cycling, still do it sometimes, but

honestly for about 70% of the riders I've witnessed or ridden with in Oklahoma,

I'm sorry but I'd have to side the the motorist a lot of the time, and I hate

saying that.  :(   The stupid thing is that the more it escalates and people

flip the bird or get uppity about something (on either side of the "war"), an

accelerator pedal and 2 ton machine are going to win every time.  Ain't worth

the conflict to me...seen it happen to many times.







--- In earthbike@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Doswell" <trailjedi@...> wrote:

>

>     I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five

abreast as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of most

infractions as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of the

time as well. If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them" things

would probably go a lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to police ourselves,

and ride according to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of angry drivers.

>     E

>   ----- Original Message -----

>   From: chris pittman

>   To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

>   Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

>   Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

>

>

>

>

>

>   Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by roadies

who insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a conversation and

then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!

>

>   ________________________________

>   From: Amy Cooper <sandbox@...>

>   To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

>   Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

>   Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

>

>   FYI - amy

>

>   ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>   From: chuck davis <dang.chuck@...>

>   Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

>   Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

>   To: obs <ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com>, BLN <BLN@yahoogroups.com>, TAT <

>   TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com>, Tulsa Wheelmen <wheelmen@yahoogroups.com>, OBL <

>   okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com>, TeamBikeBuddies <

>   TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com>

>

>   I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

>   country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"

>

>   I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

>   groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM

>

>   ...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine) claim

>   to be nationally 3rd!

>

>   Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

>   past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

>   more of a bitching exercise than anything else

>

>   In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter, the

>   below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot violation

>   butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"

>

>   “Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation

>

>   Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

>   law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

>   bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoon of

>   April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm with

>   his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be in

>   the road.

>

>   The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a $137

>   traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

>   Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation also

>   known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the motorist

>   with driving to endanger, a criminal offense.”

>

>   BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6

>

>   --

>   Chuck Davis

>   OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

>   Tulsa, OK

>

>   When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

>   dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:

>

>   http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/

>   http://okvelo.blogspot.com/

>   http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/

>

>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>   ------------------------------------

>

>   Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicyclesociety.com

>   ----------------------------------

>   NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

>   ok-bike-society-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

>

>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>   ------------------------------------

>

>   ----------------------------------------------------------

>   ----------------------------------------------------------

>   http://www.okearthbike.com

>

>   To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike

>   ----------------------------------------------------------

>   ----------------------------------------------------------

>   Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

It's important to know the various laws pertaining to bicycle operation

on the road if we're to discuss them clearly, and it's even more

important to do so if we want to influence motorists and law makers.

Frankly, there's a lot of wiggle room and gray areas.  We have a right

to use the public road provided we do so legally, so the following

always leads to discussion in a Smart Cycling class.



All of this can be found at:

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/index.asp?ftdb=STOKST&level=1

I've included it in case the hyperlinks are stripped away by Yahoo.



Impeding traffic:



§ 11-804. Minimum Speed Regulation



<http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=82324>

Note that it says "No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow

speed as to impede..."  Under Oklahoma law, bicycles are devices

propelled by human power, not motor vehicles.  We have all the rights

and all the duties of any other vehicle operator "except to those

provisions of this title which by their nature  can have no

application."





As far right as is safe - NOT as far right as possible - it's not the

same:

§ 11-1205. Riding on Roadways and Bicycle Paths



<http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=82367>

11-1205 also addresses riding two abreast, and says that it's OK

provided it doesn't impede the normal and reasonable flow of  traffic.

I'd think that on a typical 12 feet wide Oklahoma lane where an

overtaking motorist will have to straddle or cross the centerline even

if there's a single cyclist, riding two abreast doesn't change this

'normal and reasonable' practice.  But then again, I'm not an attorney.





Overtaking bicyclists - the three foot law:



§ 11-1208. Overtaking Bicycles - Penalties

<http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=447064\

>

That piece Chuck posted may be the first-ever enforcement of the 3 feet

passing law, though it didn't specifically say so.  My opinion - the 3

foot law is largely a feel-good measure because even obvious violations

-  like the one in Tulsa recently - don't result in charges.  That could

still change if the DA adds to the charges.



OK, I'm done.  Now you can argue amongst yourselves!



Ed Wagner

League of American Bicyclists

Instructor 1065



--- In earthbike@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Doswell" <trailjedi@...> wrote:

>

>     I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and

five abreast as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty

of most infractions as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists

most of the time as well. If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us

and them" things would probably go a lot smoother. We as cyclists also

need to police ourselves, and ride according to the traffic laws we wave

in the faces of angry drivers.

>     E







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The whole 'cannot impede the flow of traffic' thing is iffy as far as I'm

concerned. The argument could (and is) made that a single cyclist on the road

impedes traffic flow. I'm gonna drop that and let the lawyers argue it out.

     I agree that a lot of cyclists display bad habits on the road, I've seen it

today as a matter of fact. The habits of cyclists AND drivers have both degraded

in the last 24 years. My thinking is that it's not a cyclist or motorist issue,

but one of a widespread decrease in courtesy and an increase in

self-centeredness. (Yeah, I may have just made that word up, I'll let the

English teachers sort it) That attitude has nothing to do with what vehicle you

choose to get you around or what kind of recreation you enjoy. It has everything

to do with people feeling like they are the most important thing in their world,

and that anything else just impedes them on their important mission to get home

in time for Lost or keep their heartrate in zone 4 or whatever.

     As long as we keep thinking of this as us vs them, we will continue to have

problems. Next time you're on your bike or in your car, just assume the motorist

or cyclist you are interacting with is your kids principal or your neighbor or

your best friends grandma. I mean c'mon, would you yell at grandma?

     E

   ----- Original Message -----

   From: Chris

   To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

   Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:19 AM

   Subject: [earthbike] Re: Fwd: 3 foot rule











   You can ride two abreast, but you also cannot impede the flow of traffic and

must yield when that's the case. That goes for a single cyclist as well as two

abreast.



   Laws aside, it's just common courtesy to get single file for traffic. Since I

started cycling 24 years ago, I've seen a really bad degradation of cyclists'

skills and roadside manners. I love road cycling, still do it sometimes, but

honestly for about 70% of the riders I've witnessed or ridden with in Oklahoma,

I'm sorry but I'd have to side the the motorist a lot of the time, and I hate

saying that. :( The stupid thing is that the more it escalates and people flip

the bird or get uppity about something (on either side of the "war"), an

accelerator pedal and 2 ton machine are going to win every time. Ain't worth the

conflict to me...seen it happen to many times.



   --- In earthbike@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Doswell" <trailjedi@...> wrote:

   >

   > I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five

abreast as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of most

infractions as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of the

time as well. If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them" things

would probably go a lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to police ourselves,

and ride according to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of angry drivers.

   > E

   > ----- Original Message -----

   > From: chris pittman

   > To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

   > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

   > Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

   >

   >

   >

   >

   >

   > Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by roadies

who insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a conversation and

then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!

   >

   > ________________________________

   > From: Amy Cooper <sandbox@...>

   > To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

   > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

   > Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

   >

   > FYI - amy

   >

   > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

   > From: chuck davis <dang.chuck@...>

   > Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

   > Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

   > To: obs <ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com>, BLN <BLN@yahoogroups.com>, TAT <

   > TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com>, Tulsa Wheelmen <wheelmen@yahoogroups.com>, OBL <

   > okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com>, TeamBikeBuddies <

   > TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com>

   >

   > I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

   > country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"

   >

   > I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

   > groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM

   >

   > ...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine) claim

   > to be nationally 3rd!

   >

   > Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

   > past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

   > more of a bitching exercise than anything else

   >

   > In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter, the

   > below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot violation

   > butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"

   >

   > “Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation

   >

   > Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

   > law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

   > bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoon of

   > April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm with

   > his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be in

   > the road.

   >

   > The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a $137

   > traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

   > Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation also

   > known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the motorist

   > with driving to endanger, a criminal offense.”

   >

   > BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6

   >

   > --

   > Chuck Davis

   > OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

   > Tulsa, OK

   >

   > When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

   > dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:

   >

   > http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/

   > http://okvelo.blogspot.com/

   > http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/

   >

   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   >

   > ------------------------------------

   >

   > Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicyclesociety.com

   > ----------------------------------

   > NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

   > ok-bike-society-unsubscribe@...! Groups Links

   >

   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   >

   > ------------------------------------

   >

   > ----------------------------------------------------------

   > ----------------------------------------------------------

   > http://www.okearthbike.com

   >

   > To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

   > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike

   > ----------------------------------------------------------

   > ----------------------------------------------------------

   > Yahoo! Groups Links

   >

   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   >

   >

   >

   >

   >

   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   >











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric, You hit the nail square on the head.

T V 



--- On Sun, 7/5/09, Eric Doswell <trailjedi@...> wrote:





From: Eric Doswell <trailjedi@...>

Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:19 AM

















I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five abreast

as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of most infractions

as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of the time as well.

If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them" things would probably go

a lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to police ourselves, and ride according

to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of angry drivers.

E

----- Original Message -----

From: chris pittman

To: earthbike@yahoogrou ps.com

Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule



Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by roadies who

insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a conversation and

then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!



____________ _________ _________ __

From: Amy Cooper <sandbox@arczip. com>

To: earthbike@yahoogrou ps.com

Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule



FYI - amy



---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: chuck davis <dang.chuck@gmail. com>

Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

To: obs <ok-bike-society@ yahoogroups. com>, BLN <BLN@yahoogroups. com>, TAT <

TAT-OK@yahoogroups. com>, Tulsa Wheelmen <wheelmen@yahoogroup s.com>, OBL <

okbicycleliving@ yahoogroups. com>, TeamBikeBuddies <

TeamBikeBuddies@ yahoogroups. com>



I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"



I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM



...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine) claim

to be nationally 3rd!



Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

more of a bitching exercise than anything else



In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter, the

below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot violation

butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"



“Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation



Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoon of

April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm with

his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be in

the road.



The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a $137

traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation also

known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the motorist

with driving to endanger, a criminal offense.”



BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6



--

Chuck Davis

OK Velo (Okvelo@gmail. com)

Tulsa, OK



When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:



http://chucksbikes. blogspot. com/

http://okvelo. blogspot. com/

http://allweighscra nky.blogspot. com/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------ --------- --------- ------



Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicycle society.com

------------ --------- --------- ----

NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

ok-bike-society- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. comYahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------ --------- --------- ------



------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

http://www.okearthb ike.com



To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/earthbike

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is a lot easier to safely (and legally) pass a group of tightly packed

riders than the same number spread out over a longer distance.  I don't

think most motorists think of it that way though.



Terry





In a message dated 7/5/2009 1:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

trailjedi@... writes:











The whole 'cannot impede the flow of traffic' thing is iffy as far as I'm

concerned. The argument could (and is) made that a single cyclist on the

road  impedes traffic flow. I'm gonna drop that and let the lawyers argue it

out.

I agree that a lot of cyclists display bad habits on the road, I've seen

it today as a matter of fact. The habits of cyclists AND drivers have both

degraded in the last 24 years. My thinking is that it's not a cyclist or

motorist issue, but one of a widespread decrease in courtesy and an increase

in self-centeredness. (Yeah, I may have just made that word up, I'll let the

English teachers sort it) That attitude has nothing to do with what vehicle

  you choose to get you around or what kind of recreation you enjoy. It has

everything to do with people feeling like they are the most important thing

in  their world, and that anything else just impedes them on their

important  mission to get home in time for Lost or keep their heartrate in zone

4 or

  whatever.

As long as we keep thinking of this as us vs them, we will  continue to

have problems. Next time you're on your bike or in your car, just  assume the

motorist or cyclist you are interacting with is your kids principal  or your

neighbor or your best friends grandma. I mean c'mon, would you yell at

grandma?

E

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris

To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com)

Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:19 AM

Subject: [earthbike] Re: Fwd: 3  foot rule



You can ride two abreast, but you also cannot impede the flow  of traffic

and must yield when that's the case. That goes for a single cyclist  as well

as two abreast.



Laws aside, it's just common courtesy to get  single file for traffic.

Since I started cycling 24 years ago, I've seen a  really bad degradation of

cyclists' skills and roadside manners. I love road  cycling, still do it

sometimes, but honestly for about 70% of the riders I've  witnessed or ridden

with

in Oklahoma, I'm sorry but I'd have to side the the  motorist a lot of the

time, and I hate saying that. :( The stupid thing is  that the more it

escalates and people flip the bird or get uppity about  something (on either

side

of the "war"), an accelerator pedal and 2 ton  machine are going to win

every time. Ain't worth the conflict to me...seen it  happen to many times.



--- In _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com) ,

"Eric Doswell" <trailjedi@.tr> wrote:

>

> I believe by  law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five

abreast as is  commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of most

infractions as  the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of

the time as well. If  everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them"

things would probably go a  lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to police

ourselves, and ride according  to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of

angry drivers.

> E

>  ----- Original Message -----

> From: chris pittman

> To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com)

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

> Subject: Re: [earthbike]  Fwd: 3 foot rule

>

>

>

>

>

> Thats in  Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by

roadies who insist  on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a

conversation and then  flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!

>

>  ____________  ____  ____

> From: Amy Cooper  <sandbox@...>

> To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com)

>  Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

> Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3  foot rule

>

> FYI - amy

>

> ---------- Forwarded  message ----------

> From: chuck davis  <dang.chuck@dan>

> Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

>  Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

> To:  obs <_ok-bike-society@ok-bike-sociok-_

(mailto:ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com) >,  BLN <_BLN@..._

(mailto:BLN@yahoogroups.com) >,

TAT  <

> _TAT-OK@..._ (mailto:TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com) >,  Tulsa

Wheelmen <_wheelmen@yahoogroupwheel_ (mailto:wheelmen@yahoogroups.com) >,  OBL <

> _okbicycleliving@okbicyclelivokb_

(mailto:okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com) >,  TeamBikeBuddies <

> _TeamBikeBuddies@TeamBikeBuddTea_

(mailto:TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com) >

>

> I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across  the

> country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"

>

> I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's  advocacy

> groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's  BCM

>

> ...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective,  they (Maine)

claim

> to be nationally 3rd!

>

> Three (3)  foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

> past  year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

>  more of a bitching exercise than anything else

>

> In the Summer  2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter,

the

> below is  reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot

violation

>  butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"

>

> “Brunswick  Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation

>

> Brunswick  police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

> law  that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

>  bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoo

n  of

> April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the  arm

with

> his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they  shouldn't be

in

> the road.

>

> The bicyclists reported the  incident to police. The motorist received a

$137

> traffic ticket for  failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

> Lt. Mark Waltz  of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation

also

> known as  the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the

motorist

> with  driving to endanger, a criminal offense.”

>

> BCM Summer 2009  Newsletter, p.6

>

> --

> Chuck Davis

> OK Velo  (Okvelo@...)

> Tulsa, OK

>

> When ya really bored and/or  otherwise want to understand just how cool a

> dude I yam, czech the  deranged drivel and nonsense below:

>

> _http://chucksbikes.http://chhttp_ (http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/)

>  _http://okvelo.http://okhttp_ (http://okvelo.blogspot.com/)

>  _http://allweighscrahttp://allweihttp_

(http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/)

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> ------------ -------- -------- -----

>

>  Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicycle  Visit

>  ------------  ----  ----

> NOTICE: To remove  yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

>  ok-bike-society-  ok-bike  ok-bike-soci

>

>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>  ------------  ----  ----  -

>

>  ------------  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----

>  ------------  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----

>  _http://www.okearthbhttp://_ (http://www.okearthbike.com/)

>

> To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

> _http://groups.http://grohttp://groups._

(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike)

>  ------------  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----

>  ------------  ----  ----  ----  ----  ----

>  Yahoo! Groups Links

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have  been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text  portions of this message have been removed]

>



[Non-text portions  of this message have been removed]











**************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place

where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gosh, this may be better than the leaf war was. Maybe next time I won't pass

on information. LOL

- Amy



On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 2:49 PM, <ttietsort@...> wrote:



>

>

> It is a lot easier to safely (and legally) pass a group of tightly packed

> riders than the same number spread out over a longer distance. I don't

> think most motorists think of it that way though.

>

> Terry

>

>

> In a message dated 7/5/2009 1:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> trailjedi@... <trailjedi%40gmail.com> writes:

>

> The whole 'cannot impede the flow of traffic' thing is iffy as far as I'm

> concerned. The argument could (and is) made that a single cyclist on the

> road impedes traffic flow. I'm gonna drop that and let the lawyers argue it

>

> out.

> I agree that a lot of cyclists display bad habits on the road, I've seen

> it today as a matter of fact. The habits of cyclists AND drivers have both

> degraded in the last 24 years. My thinking is that it's not a cyclist or

> motorist issue, but one of a widespread decrease in courtesy and an

> increase

> in self-centeredness. (Yeah, I may have just made that word up, I'll let

> the

> English teachers sort it) That attitude has nothing to do with what vehicle

>

> you choose to get you around or what kind of recreation you enjoy. It has

> everything to do with people feeling like they are the most important thing

>

> in their world, and that anything else just impedes them on their

> important mission to get home in time for Lost or keep their heartrate in

> zone 4 or

> whatever.

> As long as we keep thinking of this as us vs them, we will continue to

> have problems. Next time you're on your bike or in your car, just assume

> the

> motorist or cyclist you are interacting with is your kids principal or your

>

> neighbor or your best friends grandma. I mean c'mon, would you yell at

> grandma?

> E

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Chris

> To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>)

>

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:19 AM

> Subject: [earthbike] Re: Fwd: 3 foot rule

>

> You can ride two abreast, but you also cannot impede the flow of traffic

> and must yield when that's the case. That goes for a single cyclist as well

>

> as two abreast.

>

> Laws aside, it's just common courtesy to get single file for traffic.

> Since I started cycling 24 years ago, I've seen a really bad degradation of

>

> cyclists' skills and roadside manners. I love road cycling, still do it

> sometimes, but honestly for about 70% of the riders I've witnessed or

> ridden with

> in Oklahoma, I'm sorry but I'd have to side the the motorist a lot of the

> time, and I hate saying that. :( The stupid thing is that the more it

> escalates and people flip the bird or get uppity about something (on either

> side

> of the "war"), an accelerator pedal and 2 ton machine are going to win

> every time. Ain't worth the conflict to me...seen it happen to many times.

>

> --- In _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>)

> ,

> "Eric Doswell" <trailjedi@.tr> wrote:

> >

> > I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five

> abreast as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of most

> infractions as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of

> the time as well. If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them"

> things would probably go a lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to police

>

> ourselves, and ride according to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of

> angry drivers.

> > E

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: chris pittman

> > To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>)

>

> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

> > Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by

> roadies who insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a

> conversation and then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!

> >

> > ____________ ____ ____

> > From: Amy Cooper <sandbox@...>

> > To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>)

>

> > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

> > Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

> >

> > FYI - amy

> >

> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> > From: chuck davis <dang.chuck@dan>

> > Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

> > Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

> > To: obs <_ok-bike-society@ok-bike-sociok-_

> (mailto:ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com<ok-bike-society%40yahoogroups.com>)

> >, BLN <_BLN@... <_BLN%40yahoogroups.BLN>_ (mailto:

> BLN@yahoogroups.com <BLN%40yahoogroups.com>) >,

> TAT <

> > _TAT-OK@... <_TAT-OK%40yahoogroups.TAT>_ (mailto:

> TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com <TAT-OK%40yahoogroups.com>) >, Tulsa

> Wheelmen <_wheelmen@yahoogroupwheel_

(mailto:wheelmen@yahoogroups.com<wheelmen%40yahoogroups.com>)

> >, OBL <

> > _okbicycleliving@okbicyclelivokb_

> (mailto:okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com<okbicycleliving%40yahoogroups.com>)

> >, TeamBikeBuddies <

> > _TeamBikeBuddies@TeamBikeBuddTea_

> (mailto:TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com<TeamBikeBuddies%40yahoogroups.com>)

> >

> >

> > I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

> > country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"

> >

> > I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

> > groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM

> >

> > ...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine)

> claim

> > to be nationally 3rd!

> >

> > Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

> > past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

> > more of a bitching exercise than anything else

> >

> > In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter,

> the

> > below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot

> violation

> > butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"

> >

> > “Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation

> >

> > Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

> > law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

> > bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoo

> n of

> > April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm

> with

> > his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be

> in

> > the road.

> >

> > The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a

> $137

> > traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

> > Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation

> also

> > known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the

> motorist

> > with driving to endanger, a criminal offense.â€

> >

> > BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6

> >

> > --

> > Chuck Davis

> > OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

> > Tulsa, OK

> >

> > When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

> > dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:

> >

> > _http://chucksbikes.http://chhttp_ (http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/)

> > _http://okvelo.http://okhttp_ (http://okvelo.blogspot.com/)

> > _http://allweighscrahttp://allweihttp_

> (http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/)

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > ------------ -------- -------- -----

> >

> > Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicycle Visit

> > ------------ ---- ----

> > NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

> > ok-bike-society- ok-bike ok-bike-soci

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > ------------ ---- ---- -

> >

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > _http://www.okearthbhttp://_ (http://www.okearthbike.com/)

> >

> > To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

> > _http://groups.http://grohttp://groups._

> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike)

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> **************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place

> where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We have to argue about something, otherwise all there is to do is ride;-)



-- Sent from my Palm Pre

Amy Cooper wrote:



Gosh, this may be better than the leaf war was. Maybe next time I won't pass

on information. LOL

- Amy



On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 2:49 PM,  wrote:



>

>

> It is a lot easier to safely (and legally) pass a group of tightly packed

> riders than the same number spread out over a longer distance. I don't

> think most motorists think of it that way though.

>

> Terry

>

>

> In a message dated 7/5/2009 1:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> trailjedi@...  writes:

>

> The whole 'cannot impede the flow of traffic' thing is iffy as far as I'm

> concerned. The argument could (and is) made that a single cyclist on the

> road impedes traffic flow. I'm gonna drop that and let the lawyers argue it

>

> out.

> I agree that a lot of cyclists display bad habits on the road, I've seen

> it today as a matter of fact. The habits of cyclists AND drivers have both

> degraded in the last 24 years. My thinking is that it's not a cyclist or

> motorist issue, but one of a widespread decrease in courtesy and an

> increase

> in self-centeredness. (Yeah, I may have just made that word up, I'll let

> the

> English teachers sort it) That attitude has nothing to do with what vehicle

>

> you choose to get you around or what kind of recreation you enjoy. It has

> everything to do with people feeling like they are the most important thing

>

> in their world, and that anything else just impedes them on their

> important mission to get home in time for Lost or keep their heartrate in

> zone 4 or

> whatever.

> As long as we keep thinking of this as us vs them, we will continue to

> have problems. Next time you're on your bike or in your car, just assume

> the

> motorist or cyclist you are interacting with is your kids principal or your

>

> neighbor or your best friends grandma. I mean c'mon, would you yell at

> grandma?

> E

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Chris

> To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com)

>

> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:19 AM

> Subject: [earthbike] Re: Fwd: 3 foot rule

>

> You can ride two abreast, but you also cannot impede the flow of traffic

> and must yield when that's the case. That goes for a single cyclist as well

>

> as two abreast.

>

> Laws aside, it's just common courtesy to get single file for traffic.

> Since I started cycling 24 years ago, I've seen a really bad degradation of

>

> cyclists' skills and roadside manners. I love road cycling, still do it

> sometimes, but honestly for about 70% of the riders I've witnessed or

> ridden with

> in Oklahoma, I'm sorry but I'd have to side the the motorist a lot of the

> time, and I hate saying that. :( The stupid thing is that the more it

> escalates and people flip the bird or get uppity about something (on either

> side

> of the "war"), an accelerator pedal and 2 ton machine are going to win

> every time. Ain't worth the conflict to me...seen it happen to many times.

>

> --- In _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com)

> ,

> "Eric Doswell"  wrote:

> >

> > I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five

> abreast as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of most

> infractions as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of

> the time as well. If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them"

> things would probably go a lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to police

>

> ourselves, and ride according to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of

> angry drivers.

> > E

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: chris pittman

> > To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com)

>

> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

> > Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by

> roadies who insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a

> conversation and then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!

> >

> > ____________ ____ ____

> > From: Amy Cooper

> > To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_ (mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com)

>

> > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

> > Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

> >

> > FYI - amy

> >

> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> > From: chuck davis

> > Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

> > Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

> > To: obs <_ok-bike-society@ok-bike-sociok-_

> (mailto:ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com)

> >, BLN <_BLN@... <_BLN%40yahoogroups.BLN>_ (mailto:

> BLN@yahoogroups.com ) >,

> TAT <

> > _TAT-OK@... <_TAT-OK%40yahoogroups.TAT>_ (mailto:

> TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com ) >, Tulsa

> Wheelmen <_wheelmen@yahoogroupwheel_ (mailto:wheelmen@yahoogroups.com)

> >, OBL <

> > _okbicycleliving@okbicyclelivokb_

> (mailto:okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com)

> >, TeamBikeBuddies <

> > _TeamBikeBuddies@TeamBikeBuddTea_

> (mailto:TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com)

> >

> >

> > I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across the

> > country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"

> >

> > I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

> > groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM

> >

> > ...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine)

> claim

> > to be nationally 3rd!

> >

> > Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over the

> > past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has been

> > more of a bitching exercise than anything else

> >

> > In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter,

> the

> > below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot

> violation

> > butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"

> >

> > “Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation

> >

> > Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a state

> > law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when passing

> > bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the afternoo

> n of

> > April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm

> with

> > his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't be

> in

> > the road.

> >

> > The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a

> $137

> > traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist, said

> > Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation

> also

> > known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the

> motorist

> > with driving to endanger, a criminal offense.ďż˝

> >

> > BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6

> >

> > --

> > Chuck Davis

> > OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

> > Tulsa, OK

> >

> > When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool a

> > dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:

> >

> > _http://chucksbikes.http://chhttp_ (http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/)

> > _http://okvelo.http://okhttp_ (http://okvelo.blogspot.com/)

> > _http://allweighscrahttp://allweihttp_

> (http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/)

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > ------------ -------- -------- -----

> >

> > Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicycle Visit

> > ------------ ---- ----

> > NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

> > ok-bike-society- ok-bike ok-bike-soci

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > ------------ ---- ---- -

> >

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > _http://www.okearthbhttp://_ (http://www.okearthbike.com/)

> >

> > To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

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> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike)

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > Yahoo! Groups Links

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

> **************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place

> where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the reminder.   I do realize that.  I agree with your statement "we

have to argue about something, otherwise all there is to do is ride."



Sometimes I get a little down.



  Just that  I have been informed by a few select persons in so many words in

the past that this original OEF yahoo forum is a dinosaur with no function

and needed to be killed asap.  Yet I (and  the former group owner Dennis

Lee) never believed that and kept it ongoing despite the difficulties had on

occasions with some people.   Forums are for communication and

discussions.  The comments and arguments  on the above is  just additional

proof that there is value to this simple forum.



  Rest assured, passing on of any related bike info will be continued

regardless of what criticisms may come my way. - Amy







On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:32 PM, trailjedi@... <trailjedi@...>wrote:



>

>

> We have to argue about something, otherwise all there is to do is ride;-)

>

> -- Sent from my Palm Pre

> Amy Cooper wrote:

>

> Gosh, this may be better than the leaf war was. Maybe next time I won't

> pass

> on information. LOL

> - Amy

>

>  On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 2:49 PM, wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > It is a lot easier to safely (and legally) pass a group of tightly packed

> > riders than the same number spread out over a longer distance. I don't

> > think most motorists think of it that way though.

> >

> > Terry

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 7/5/2009 1:34:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> > trailjedi@... <trailjedi%40gmail.com> writes:

> >

> > The whole 'cannot impede the flow of traffic' thing is iffy as far as I'm

> > concerned. The argument could (and is) made that a single cyclist on the

> > road impedes traffic flow. I'm gonna drop that and let the lawyers argue

> it

> >

> > out.

> > I agree that a lot of cyclists display bad habits on the road, I've seen

> > it today as a matter of fact. The habits of cyclists AND drivers have

> both

> > degraded in the last 24 years. My thinking is that it's not a cyclist or

> > motorist issue, but one of a widespread decrease in courtesy and an

> > increase

> > in self-centeredness. (Yeah, I may have just made that word up, I'll let

> > the

> > English teachers sort it) That attitude has nothing to do with what

> vehicle

> >

> > you choose to get you around or what kind of recreation you enjoy. It has

> > everything to do with people feeling like they are the most important

> thing

> >

> > in their world, and that anything else just impedes them on their

> > important mission to get home in time for Lost or keep their heartrate in

> > zone 4 or

> > whatever.

> > As long as we keep thinking of this as us vs them, we will continue to

> > have problems. Next time you're on your bike or in your car, just assume

> > the

> > motorist or cyclist you are interacting with is your kids principal or

> your

> >

> > neighbor or your best friends grandma. I mean c'mon, would you yell at

> > grandma?

> > E

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: Chris

> > To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> >

> > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:19 AM

> > Subject: [earthbike] Re: Fwd: 3 foot rule

> >

> > You can ride two abreast, but you also cannot impede the flow of traffic

> > and must yield when that's the case. That goes for a single cyclist as

> well

> >

> > as two abreast.

> >

> > Laws aside, it's just common courtesy to get single file for traffic.

> > Since I started cycling 24 years ago, I've seen a really bad degradation

> of

> >

> > cyclists' skills and roadside manners. I love road cycling, still do it

> > sometimes, but honestly for about 70% of the riders I've witnessed or

> > ridden with

> > in Oklahoma, I'm sorry but I'd have to side the the motorist a lot of the

> > time, and I hate saying that. :( The stupid thing is that the more it

> > escalates and people flip the bird or get uppity about something (on

> either

> > side

> > of the "war"), an accelerator pedal and 2 ton machine are going to win

> > every time. Ain't worth the conflict to me...seen it happen to many

> times.

> >

> > --- In _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> > ,

> > "Eric Doswell" wrote:

> > >

> > > I believe by law cyclists are allowed two abreast. Three, four and five

> > abreast as is commonly seen is not cool. We cyclists are as guilty of

> most

> > infractions as the motorists we rage about. We're also motorists most of

> > the time as well. If everyone stopped thinking about it as "us and them"

> > things would probably go a lot smoother. We as cyclists also need to

> police

> >

> > ourselves, and ride according to the traffic laws we wave in the faces of

> > angry drivers.

> > > E

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: chris pittman

> > > To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> >

> > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:06 AM

> > > Subject: Re: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Thats in Maine. I guarantee OK is different. I get VERY agitated by

> > roadies who insist on riding abreast for no other reason than to have a

> > conversation and then flip you off with they're self righteous attitudes!

> > >

> > > ____________ ____ ____

> > > From: Amy Cooper

> > > To: _earthbike@yahoogrouearthb_

(mailto:earthbike@yahoogroups.com<earthbike%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> >

> > > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 10:38:45 PM

> > > Subject: [earthbike] Fwd: 3 foot rule

> > >

> > > FYI - amy

> > >

> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> > > From: chuck davis

> > > Date: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:03 PM

> > > Subject: [ok-bike-society] Three foot rule enforced, plus......

> > > To: obs &lt;_ok-bike-society@ok-bike-sociok-_

> > (mailto:ok-bike-society@yahoogroups.com<ok-bike-society%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> > >, BLN &lt;_BLN@...

<_BLN%40yahoogroups.BLN>&lt;_BLN%40yahoogroups.BLN>_ (mailto:

> > BLN@yahoogroups.com <BLN%40yahoogroups.com> ) >,

> > TAT &lt;

> > > _TAT-OK@...

<_TAT-OK%40yahoogroups.TAT>&lt;_TAT-OK%40yahoogroups.TAT>_ (mailto:

> > TAT-OK@yahoogroups.com <TAT-OK%40yahoogroups.com> ) >, Tulsa

> > Wheelmen &lt;_wheelmen@yahoogroupwheel_

(mailto:wheelmen@yahoogroups.com<wheelmen%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> > >, OBL &lt;

> > > _okbicycleliving@okbicyclelivokb_

> > (mailto:okbicycleliving@yahoogroups.com<okbicycleliving%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> > >, TeamBikeBuddies &lt;

> > > _TeamBikeBuddies@TeamBikeBuddTea_

> > (mailto:TeamBikeBuddies@yahoogroups.com<TeamBikeBuddies%40yahoogroups.com>

> )

> > >

> > >

> > > I try and follow and otherwise keep up with what is happening across

> the

> > > country as pertains to bicycling road use "advocacy"

> > >

> > > I support and maintain memberships in a number of bicyclist's advocacy

> > > groups; my favorite is my "home state's" group, Maine's BCM

> > >

> > > ...........from a bicycling friendly state prospective, they (Maine)

> > claim

> > > to be nationally 3rd!

> > >

> > > Three (3) foot passing rules have been a popular item nationally over

> the

> > > past year; ostensible lack of enforcement thereof in many cases has

> been

> > > more of a bitching exercise than anything else

> > >

> > > In the Summer 2009 issue of the the "Maine Cyclist", BCM's newsletter,

> > the

> > > below is reported; knot only a traffic citation for the three foot

> > violation

> > > butt a criminal complaint of "endangerment"

> > >

> > > “Brunswick Police Cite Motorist for 'Three-Foot" Violation

> > >

> > > Brunswick police may have issued the state's first citation under a

> state

> > > law that requires motorists to give three feet of clearance when

> passing

> > > bicyclists. The motorist allegedly passed two bicyclists on the

> afternoo

> > n of

> > > April 12 on Maine Street in Brunswick and struck one of them in the arm

> > with

> > > his sports utility vehicle, then stopped and told them they shouldn't

> be

> > in

> > > the road.

> > >

> > > The bicyclists reported the incident to police. The motorist received a

> > $137

> > > traffic ticket for failure to use due care when passing a bicyclist,

> said

> > > Lt. Mark Waltz of the Brunswick Police Department. That is a violation

> > also

> > > known as the "three-foot law." Waltz said police also charged the

> > motorist

> > > with driving to endanger, a criminal offense.ďż˝

>

> > >

> > > BCM Summer 2009 Newsletter, p.6

> > >

> > > --

> > > Chuck Davis

> > > OK Velo (Okvelo@...)

> > > Tulsa, OK

> > >

> > > When ya really bored and/or otherwise want to understand just how cool

> a

> > > dude I yam, czech the deranged drivel and nonsense below:

> > >

> > > _http://chucksbikes.http://chhttp_ (http://chucksbikes.blogspot.com/)

> > > _http://okvelo.http://okhttp_ (http://okvelo.blogspot.com/)

> > > _http://allweighscrahttp://allweihttp_

> > (http://allweighscranky.blogspot.com/)

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > > ------------ -------- -------- -----

> > >

> > > Visit the OBS web site at www.oklahomabicycle Visit

> > > ------------ ---- ----

> > > NOTICE: To remove yourself from this list, send a blank message to:

> > > ok-bike-society- ok-bike ok-bike-soci

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

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> > >

> > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

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> > >

> > > To manage your list settings or un-subscribe please go to:

> > > _http://groups.http://grohttp://groups._

> > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/earthbike)

> > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > > ------------ ---- ---- ---- ---- ----

> > > Yahoo! Groups Links

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > **************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place

> > where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> >

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

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>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unfortunately, the three foot law didn't help me any. When  motorists are not

paying attention (putting on makeup. talking or texting on phone, reading,

reaching for something , etc. etc.) that law is mute. I always ride as close to

the curb as possible and I have NEVER flipped anyone off no matter how rude they

were to me. I will never understand why it pisses motorists off because I am on

the road riding my bicycle. I am a very courteous rider but I was struck by a

distracted driver going at least 50 mph. She put me in a coma and has changed my

life forever because now I'm living with a brain injury. I was doing what I

loved to do. She was being an idiot. My life is changd. Her isn't. All she had

to pay was $172 ticket for inattetiveness.







-----Original Message-----

From: ttietsort@...

Date: 07/05/2009 03:50 PM

To: earthbike@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [earthbike] Re: Fwd: 3 foot rule



Note: Original message sent as attachment