Way to go Disco, 2 wins for the weekend, and two losses by a total of
3 points! That's a strong showing. You were just three game-changing
plays (either a score of a hot D) away from going 3-1 on Saturday.

That may be the best that Disco has ever done. Slap y'erselves on the
back!

Wish I could've been there with ya'. On the positive side, we did get
a start on painting the house.....*SIGH*

I really miss playing with you all. Is anybody going to be recovered
enough to play pickup on Saturday? We'll be in town so Clare can do a
rock-climbing fund raiser for ovarian cancer research, but I'm hoping
for some disc.

Fire In The Hole!

Inquiring minds wanna know!  Two teams from Vegas this year - that
rocks! Wish I could've been there. Tell me all the details!

Fire In The Hole!

--- In discoelvis@yahoogroups.com, jalexhartl@a... wrote:
> I now have a lot of rhetorical  ammunition to argue either side of
the issue which I intend to do at the  tournament should the instance
arise and the team we are playing against is a  bunch of jerks.
>
>     Alex
>

dude, word.

:-)

Disco Elvi,

Drive safe everyone and we'll see you at the motel
(Studio6).

James



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Dennis:
     I think that your uncertainty assumes that a player  must either be "in
bounds" or "out of bounds"  If you accept that a person  can be neither in nor
out then the answer becomes clear.  Megan was not an  "in bounds player" and
therefore item #2 does not apply.  Had the rule  stated "a player that was 'not
out of bounds'" then #2 would apply.  My  read on this is had Megan touched
the disk and the disk landed in, (i.e., an  attempt at the greatest)  the disk
would be played from the spot of the  disk or at the end line nearest the
spot, however because the disk remained out  and none of the exceptions occurred
it goes back to wherever it crossed out of  bounds.  Whatever the actual answer
I now have a lot of rhetorical  ammunition to argue either side of the issue
which I intend to do at the  tournament should the instance arise and the team
we are playing against is a  bunch of jerks.

     Alex


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Dan,

Look at each possibility in IX-H:

#4 "any part of the disc inside the perimeter" - no part of the disc
on Dave's throw *returned* to inside the perimeter, did it? It went
out and stayed out, yes? Then #4 doesn't apply.

#3 No defensive player contacted the disc, so #3 doesn't apply.

#2 Is Megan in or out? More on this below, but for now just believe
that she was out of bounds, so #2 doesn't apply.

#1 The disc crossed the perimeter line.

Since #1 is the only event that applies. The disc should go into play
at the nearest point where that event occured (back near where Dave
was standing)



Now, about IX-H.2 Megan being in or out, and your idea about an
air-born player being "in bounds until they come down and touch the
out of bounds ground" see IX-G

G. For a player to be considered in-bounds after gaining possession of
the disc, that player's first point of ground contact with any area
must be completely in-bounds.

So, even if Megan was air-born, she is not considered "in bounds"
until she comes down and touches in bounds.

But being air-born, she's not out of bounds, either. It's an ambiguous
status: air-born she's not in bounds, because that would be a score,
and she's not out of bounds, because that would be a turn.

If the status of an air-born player were *not* ambiguous, then the
Greatest would not exist. The rules would have declared you in or out
the instant you caught it while air-born, and you'd never have to
bother flinging it back into the field. It's that very ambiguity that
allows the Greatest to even be possible. "I'm not out until I come down!"

Good question, ya' old rule-nazi. :-)

FITH





--- In discoelvis@yahoogroups.com, "bufordt13" <dan@n...> wrote:
>
> Last night there was a play where Dave threw the disc from about
> mid-field on the sideline to Megan in the endzone. The disc however
> didn't break enough to make it back into the field of play. Megan
> tried to toe the line but ended up calling herself out, at which I
> opened my big mouth and said that the disc should be put into play
> back where it crossed the sideline, not where Megan had touched the
> disc.
>
> so being the rules nazi/geek that i am i looked up the rule regarding
> where the disc should have been put into play. as is usual for these
> things, my first opinion was sort of right, and sort of wrong, so here
> are the actual rules:
>
> Disc Out of Bounds
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------
> IX-H
>
> To continue play when the disc becomes out-of-bounds, a member of the
> team gaining possession of the disc must carry the disc to, and put
> the disc into play at, the spot on the playing field proper nearest to
> where the most recent of the following events occurred:
>      1. The disc completely crossed the perimeter line.
>      2. The disc contacted an in-bounds player.
>      3. The disc contacted a defensive player.
>      4. The disc became out-of-bounds due to contact with an
>         out-of-bounds area while the any part of the disc was inside
>                                            the perimeter
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------
>
>
> This would indicate that unless the defense touched the disc that the
> disc went back to the point that it crossed the boundary line. Yeah
> me!
>
> However there is the question of what constitutes an in-bounds player,
> so we go to:
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------
> IX-C
>
> Any object or player contacting an out-of-bounds area is
> out-of-bounds.An airborne player whose last ground contact was with an
> out-of-bounds area is out-of-bounds. All out-of-bounds objects and
> out-of-bounds offensive players are considered part of the
> out-of-bounds area. The following exceptions apply:
>      1. In the event that momentum carries a player out-of-bounds
> after gaining possession of an in-bounds disc and landing in-bounds,
> the player is considered in-bounds. The disc is put into play at
>         the spot on the perimeter line where the player went
>         out-of-bounds. If the player traversed the end zone being
>         attacked, then rule XI.C applies.
>      2. The thrower may pivot resulting in contact with an
> out-of-bounds
>         area, providing that the pivot remains in contact with the
>         playing field. Movement of the pivot out-of-bounds is a
> travel.
>      3. Contact between players does not confer the state of being in-
>         or out-of-bounds from one onto another.
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------
>
> Although it doesn't say it this way I interpret this to mean that a
> player who jumps from inbounds is inbounds until they touch out of
> bounds. This would mean that if you jump from inbounds and touch a
> disc that was thrown out of bounds before you (and it) touch the
> ground that possession of the disc would be at the point on the
> playing field proper closest to where you touched it. If you jump from
> out of bounds, or are standing out of bounds and touch the disc, the
> disc is dead, and possession would be taken where it crossed the
> boundary line. So, Boo Me!
>
> Now I don't remember whether Megan was in the air when she first made
> contact with the disc so.... But it does give a person yet another
> reason to try to get the disc, or attempt a greatest as even if there
> is a turnover the disc is put into play where you touch it(as long as
> you jumped from inbounds) rather then where it first crossed the
> boundary line.
>
> dan
>
> ps i just noticed that since contact between players does not confer
> the state of being in or out of bounds from one onto another that is
> seems like you could stand on an out of bound defensive player and
> still be inbounds. (of course you would be fouling them, but who cares
> about that?)

Last night there was a play where Dave threw the disc from about
mid-field on the sideline to Megan in the endzone. The disc however
didn't break enough to make it back into the field of play. Megan
tried to toe the line but ended up calling herself out, at which I
opened my big mouth and said that the disc should be put into play
back where it crossed the sideline, not where Megan had touched the
disc.

so being the rules nazi/geek that i am i looked up the rule regarding
where the disc should have been put into play. as is usual for these
things, my first opinion was sort of right, and sort of wrong, so here
are the actual rules:

Disc Out of Bounds

--------------------------------------------------
----------------------
IX-H

To continue play when the disc becomes out-of-bounds, a member of the
team gaining possession of the disc must carry the disc to, and put
the disc into play at, the spot on the playing field proper nearest to
where the most recent of the following events occurred:
      1. The disc completely crossed the perimeter line.
      2. The disc contacted an in-bounds player.
      3. The disc contacted a defensive player.
      4. The disc became out-of-bounds due to contact with an
         out-of-bounds area while the any part of the disc was inside
                                            the perimeter
--------------------------------------------------
----------------------


This would indicate that unless the defense touched the disc that the
disc went back to the point that it crossed the boundary line. Yeah
me!

However there is the question of what constitutes an in-bounds player,
so we go to:

--------------------------------------------------
----------------------
IX-C

Any object or player contacting an out-of-bounds area is
out-of-bounds.An airborne player whose last ground contact was with an
out-of-bounds area is out-of-bounds. All out-of-bounds objects and
out-of-bounds offensive players are considered part of the
out-of-bounds area. The following exceptions apply:
      1. In the event that momentum carries a player out-of-bounds
after gaining possession of an in-bounds disc and landing in-bounds,
the player is considered in-bounds. The disc is put into play at
         the spot on the perimeter line where the player went
         out-of-bounds. If the player traversed the end zone being
         attacked, then rule XI.C applies.
      2. The thrower may pivot resulting in contact with an
out-of-bounds
         area, providing that the pivot remains in contact with the
         playing field. Movement of the pivot out-of-bounds is a
travel.
      3. Contact between players does not confer the state of being in-
         or out-of-bounds from one onto another.
--------------------------------------------------
----------------------

Although it doesn't say it this way I interpret this to mean that a
player who jumps from inbounds is inbounds until they touch out of
bounds. This would mean that if you jump from inbounds and touch a
disc that was thrown out of bounds before you (and it) touch the
ground that possession of the disc would be at the point on the
playing field proper closest to where you touched it. If you jump from
out of bounds, or are standing out of bounds and touch the disc, the
disc is dead, and possession would be taken where it crossed the
boundary line. So, Boo Me!

Now I don't remember whether Megan was in the air when she first made
contact with the disc so.... But it does give a person yet another
reason to try to get the disc, or attempt a greatest as even if there
is a turnover the disc is put into play where you touch it(as long as
you jumped from inbounds) rather then where it first crossed the
boundary line.

dan

ps i just noticed that since contact between players does not confer
the state of being in or out of bounds from one onto another that is
seems like you could stand on an out of bound defensive player and
still be inbounds. (of course you would be fouling them, but who cares
about that?)

Evidently that "preliminary" date of 26-27 didn't work out! laout.org
has the signup sheet, etc. all reading 19-20 March!

I am *so* there! YEEAAAHHH BABY!

FIRE IN THE HOLE!

Forcast for Tempe: rain, rain, and more rain. bring paunchos amigos! adieu

james hong <jjhong4ash@...> wrote:
Disco Elvi,

Sorry guys. I made a mistake with the schedule. Our
first game is against Waiting for a Good O (from Salt
Lake City) at 10am. We are seeded fifth in our pool
and Waiting for a Good O is seeded first. My bad...

James



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

any idea of who waiting for good o is comprised of (tmk, tyro, etc..?)

james hong <jjhong4ash@...> wrote:
Disco Elvi,

Sorry guys. I made a mistake with the schedule. Our
first game is against Waiting for a Good O (from Salt
Lake City) at 10am. We are seeded fifth in our pool
and Waiting for a Good O is seeded first. My bad...

James



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Disco Elvi,

Sorry guys.  I made a mistake with the schedule.  Our
first game is against Waiting for a Good O (from Salt
Lake City) at 10am.  We are seeded fifth in our pool
and Waiting for a Good O is seeded first.  My bad...

James



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Disco Elvi,

Open Div II Pools are available for everyone to see.
Just go to www.vots.org.  We are seeded fourth in our
pool.  We will be playing against MacDaddy (#2
seed)from Minneapolis for our first game on saturday
(10am).  I had a hard time going to sleep last night
thinking about the tournament.  I can't wait...

James



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Kick some butt this weekend! Be sure and take some pics so I can live
vicariously through all you tournament go-ers!

Disco played against Hammer O' the Gods at NYF in 2003, beating them
13-7. This was the first time in DE history that we had 2 victories in
a weekend (also beating Penultimate 13-10 on Sunday). However, Hammer
came back strong last year, beating Disco 15-9 in the first game on
Sunday. Bring your A-game, dudes! I remember watching Waiting For The
Good O a few years back at Daweena. They flow very well. Smothering,
shut-down D on their deeps and 2nd-cutter mids will be important. Hope
ya' like to run.... :-)

Kudos to all the women on Sparkle Motion for going to a major tourney!
Enjoy the experience!

Vegas Ultimate ROCKS!

Fire In The Hole!

Chris,

Your message brought instant smile to my face.  Now,
that's the attitude!!!  I can't wait till I compete
against other good teams!!!

James

--- Chris Read <unlvultimate@...> wrote:

>
> I only have this to say:
>
>
>
> WE ARE GOING TO ROCK THE SHIT OUT OF SOME
> TEAMS!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
> I also have this to say: I am extremely excited to
> play in this tournamet. It is probably th best team
> I have ever played with. If I were a team playing
> against us I would be very nervous about me... or
> something like that. Anyways, I can't wait.
>
> XOXO
>
> Chris Read
>
> UNLV RED ARMY
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




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I only have this to say:



WE ARE GOING TO ROCK THE SHIT OUT OF SOME TEAMS!!!!!!!!



I also have this to say: I am extremely excited to play in this tournamet. It is
probably th best team I have ever played with. If I were a team playing against
us I would be very nervous about me... or something like that. Anyways, I can't
wait.

XOXO

Chris Read

UNLV RED ARMY



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Disco Elvi,

Sorry, I forgot to put the date.  Team dinner is this
coming thursday (1/27/05).

James.

--- james hong <jjhong4ash@...> wrote:

> Disco Elvi,
>
>  1) James
>  2) Mike
>  3) Dave
>  4) Hartl
>  5) Edwin
>  6) Ken
>  7) Ben
>  8) Tim
>  9) Istvan
> 10) Jason
> 11) Chris R.
> 12) Chris C.
> 13) Derek
> 14) Adam
> 15) Nick
> 16) Brandon
> 17) Matt
>
> Transportation:  I have 6 people in my minivan
> already
> (including myself):
>
>  1) James
>  2) Edwin
>  3) Tim
>  4) Istvan
>  5) Jason
>  6) Adam
>
> I think Brandon was looking for a ride in my
> minivan,
> but I am completely full.  Can anyone accommodate
> Brandon?  I will be leaving las vegas around 1:30pm
> or
> sooner if I can.
>
> Team dinner:  at Fazoli's Italian Restaurant
> Time:  between 6:30 and 7pm
> Phone #:  454-1136
> Address:  1290 W. Warm Springs Rd, Henderson
> Nearest cross streets:  Warm Springs and Stephnie??
>
> My only concern:  Is the restaurant big enough to
> accommodate all of us (Men's team, Women's team, and
> significant others)??
>
> James
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>




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Disco Elvi,

  1) James
  2) Mike
  3) Dave
  4) Hartl
  5) Edwin
  6) Ken
  7) Ben
  8) Tim
  9) Istvan
10) Jason
11) Chris R.
12) Chris C.
13) Derek
14) Adam
15) Nick
16) Brandon
17) Matt

Transportation:  I have 6 people in my minivan already
(including myself):

  1) James
  2) Edwin
  3) Tim
  4) Istvan
  5) Jason
  6) Adam

I think Brandon was looking for a ride in my minivan,
but I am completely full.  Can anyone accommodate
Brandon?  I will be leaving las vegas around 1:30pm or
sooner if I can.

Team dinner:  at Fazoli's Italian Restaurant
Time:  between 6:30 and 7pm
Phone #:  454-1136
Address:  1290 W. Warm Springs Rd, Henderson
Nearest cross streets:  Warm Springs and Stephnie??

My only concern:  Is the restaurant big enough to
accommodate all of us (Men's team, Women's team, and
significant others)??

James





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> Women's Outreach
> A new kit has recently been introduced to help organizers with
starting new
> college teams.  This kit is truly amazing!  You won't believe it
until you
> see it.  It contains discs, cones, posters, rulebooks, an
instructional
> manual and instructional DVD!  It's everything one would need to
start a new
> college women's team.  This is a phenomenal offer and opportunity.
For more
> information about this kit and the women's program go to
> http://www.upa.org/outreach/womens
<http://www.upa.org/outreach/womens>
>

Megan,

Don't know if you are interested in this or not, but if you are I
would be willing to donate money to the cause.  For those of you who
don't know Megan is doing a fantastic job with the women's team going
to NYF.

-Mike

Disco Elvi,

Just a friendly reminder that we will be having our
last practice for NYF tomorrow (saturday) at 1pm at
Cannon Middle School.  It appears it's going to be a
nice day for ultimate...

Everyone, please bring both white and dark shirts so
we can mix up the team and scrimmage.

We will also be talking about team dinner,
transportation, lodging, and cost for the tournament.

As soon as they post the pool plays on their website
(NYF), I will let you guys know ASAP.

I think this is the most athletic team we are taking
to NYF ever since I've been here (No disrespect to
previous teams).  I hope that will translate into our
team doing well at this tournament.  I am excited and
pumped up to go to Tempe and compete!!  See you guys
tomorrow.

James

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All:
             Some important stuff from the UPA.

UWait

-----Original Message-----
From: Melanie Byrd [mailto:mel@...]
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 9:36 AM
To: Info Mailbox
Subject: [BULK] UPA Grant Program and Women's Outreach
Importance: Low

Hello-

I hope everyone is doing well.  If anyone receives this message twice, I
apologize.  I tried not to do this but some folks may be on more than one
list.
I wanted to bring some updates regarding a couple of the UPA's programs to
everyone's attention.  Both of these announcements pertain to outreach
programs.  If you or anyone you know may benefit from one of these programs
please forward them this information or refer them to www.upa.org
<http://www.upa.org> .

Innovation Grant Program
The UPA's Ultimate Innovation Grant program is once again looking for
creative ideas and programs to help promote the sport, offering funds of up
to $500 per project.  Please share your idea for improving or developing
Ultimate programs in your community! This year's grant application deadline
is February 18, 2005.  For more information regarding this program go to
http://www.upa.org/grants <http://www.upa.org/grants>

Women's Outreach
A new kit has recently been introduced to help organizers with starting new
college teams.  This kit is truly amazing!  You won't believe it until you
see it.  It contains discs, cones, posters, rulebooks, an instructional
manual and instructional DVD!  It's everything one would need to start a new
college women's team.  This is a phenomenal offer and opportunity.  For more
information about this kit and the women's program go to
http://www.upa.org/outreach/womens <http://www.upa.org/outreach/womens>

As I mentioned previously, forward this information to anyone that could
benefit from these programs.  Send it even if you don't know if they could
benefit or not.  We want everyone to have these opportunities.  If you have
any questions regarding these or other outreach programs feel free to
contact me.

Thanks and have a great day!

Melanie Byrd

Director of Membership and Outreach
741 Pearl Street, Side Suite
Boulder, CO 80302
p: 303.447.3472 x112
p: 800.872.4384
f: 303.447.3483



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Now this, yeah, this is why I play the game. People like Howie.

http://www.mcudl.org/doc/manifesto.html

FIRE IN THE HOLE!

Will this one work better?

E

Hey gang,

Good luck at NYF! Hope you all kick some a$$!

Clare and I will be in town Saturday 5 Feb (the weekend after NYF) and
I hope to play some pickup with y'all.  Clare will be doing a
fund-raiser (rocking climbing to raise money for ovarian cancer
research) but I'll be itching to touch some disc in the morning.

Some friends are coming over with us, and the girls might want to do
shopping on that Sunday, while I watch the Superbowl somewhere.
Anybody got any thoughts on SB parties?

Go Go Disco!

FITH!

Disco Elvi,

NYF Tournament is fast approaching and here is most
current roster for NYF (of course, subject to change
if people back out at the last second):

  1) James
  2) Mike
  3) Dave
  4) Hartl
  5) Ken
  6) Ben
  7) Edwin
  8) Tim
  9) Chris R.
10) Chris C.
11) Derek
12) Jason M.
13) Adam
14) Istvan

** Possibles:

  1) Monty
  2) Nick

I want to cap the roster at 15.  It appears that we
have nice mix of old/experienced and young/athletic
players.  My only concern is that we haven't played
together as a unit that much.  Hopefully, we will get
it together by tournament time.  If we limit our
mistakes (turnovers) and play psycho D, then we can't
go wrong.  See you guys tomorrow at Vo-tech high
school for pick-up.

James

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See you all tomorrow night for pick-up at Vo-Tech!

Kristi



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Disco Elvi,

We only have 2 more practices remaining before New
Years Fest!!  What a scary thought!!  Saturday's
practice will be at Cannon Middle School at 1pm sharp.
  Hope to see all of you guys there--except those who
are going to LAOUT tournament in California.  Good
luck and have a safe trip!!!

James



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Mike,

Can you please send an invite to Tim Cook to join our
e-mail list?  His e-mail address is timcook2@....
Thanks.

James



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Disco Elvi,

Pick-up on thursday will be at Vo-tech High School at
8pm.  If the lights are out, then proceed to Cannon
Middle School.

Saturday practice for NYF Tournament will be at Cannon
Middle School at 1pm.

James

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Su,

People who live within an hours drive don't know where
Ridgecrest is...so that would be wild if that ever
happened.  Heck, I'm still not convinced it
exists...hee-hee.

Yeah, we know ALL about driving around in 2wd trucks
in adverse weather.  We got last Friday off-they
closed the base at about 9:30am.  So, when we got
home, we took the cats out in the snow.  They had fun
until they realized their paws were wet!

Glad you made it home in one piece!!!  Do you have
pictures?

Clare

--- sukeeney@... wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> Not to brag or anything, but we had quite a bit
> sticking up at the hospital
> -- enough for a good snowball fight and 4 foot high
> 'snow kitty' outside and a
> 1  foot high snowman in our treatment sink.  We had
> plenty of time to play
> since clients didn't want to drive in the snow.  The
> best part -- sliding
> around in a 2WD truck on the way home!
>
> Vegas even made the news in New Mexico for our snow.
>  I didn't hear  anything
> about Ridgecrest snow from 2 states away!  So, ha!
>
> Su
>
>
> Su
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Dennis,

Not to brag or anything, but we had quite a bit sticking up at the hospital
-- enough for a good snowball fight and 4 foot high 'snow kitty' outside and a
1  foot high snowman in our treatment sink.  We had plenty of time to play
since clients didn't want to drive in the snow.  The best part -- sliding
around in a 2WD truck on the way home!

Vegas even made the news in New Mexico for our snow.  I didn't hear  anything
about Ridgecrest snow from 2 states away!  So, ha!

Su


Su


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]