It's just that I feel bike safety is one of the important issues,
perhaps there is a much greater cultural difference between our
countries. I found the triad a bit too general for use over here.

I'm not discussing jym, I'm discussing the triad.

Yeah brake fluid, its quite flammable as I remember, not a good idea to
mess around with.

As for changing our name, that will never happen, we have been Critical
Mass for nearly 12 years! (next April is our birthday). The police now
ride mountain bikes and are quite friendly most of the time, I've even
see one plod telling someone where we meet and to make sure they bring
bikes. We have made a difference, mostly by not arguing between ourselves.

Misleading over the rear light advice, you can be fined £30 for not
having one at night in London.

The fact that you offer rules of equal harshness to motorists does not
make the cycle advice any more palatable, I don't know the answer, but
this is a discussion list, maybe someone else has a reasonable suggestion.

No I don't mean Jym, remember I'm discussing the triad, not jym.

Those who need them, lets think, how about the elderly, disabled or
people with stuff to move, also people in remote areas.

What's with the rant at the bottom of your email? I was only talking
about the triad.




bumpkinbubba wrote:

>--- In criticalmass2@yahoogroups.com, "Amigiac [London, UK]"
><cm@a...> wrote:
>
>
>>Bubba, you really should re-think this to be more useful to
>>
>>
>cyclists,
>
>
>>how about advice for junctions/turning/changing lanes should we
>>
>>
>have
>
>
>>bell's air-horns water-pistols?
>>
>>
>
>
>TF: There are plenty of other resources out there - such as
>http://www.JohnForester.com - for those that are sufficiently
>sophisticated to be interested in such spelling out of details. The
>whole idea of the Triad, on the other hand, is to convey the
>principles in a form that's sufficiently succinct to fit on a leaflet
>that Joe Six-Pack is likely to read.
>
>Furthermore, all of those details of which you speak (with the
>exception of the water pistols) can also be found between the Triad's
>lines by any intelligent person. Many of them - such as whether a
>cyclist must have a noise-making device or whether his/her ability to
>simply shout in emergency suffices as the equivalent of a car's horn -
> are open to interpretation, and that's the beauty of the Triad; my
>goal when cooking it up was to make it as uncontroversial as possible
>to everybody except the "_Jym_"s of the world.
>
>Now, about the water pistols: If you want to know what a really
>deluxe (albeit illegal and untriadal) use of them is for a cyclist,
>get some perspective by working at an auto-repair shop. One that
>works on parts other than the propulsion system. But I like the
>finish on my motor vehicles and am therefore not going to divulge the
>secret on a C******* M*** list.
>
>
>
>
>>Also the list is not specific to any one country, in the UK we have
>>
>>
>to
>
>
>>use rear lights,
>>
>>
>
>
>TF: And in New York too, I understand. Or, regarding another part of
>the Triad, some left-coast cyclists including some that could ride
>rings around "_Jym_"/"Abe", keep on telling me that the law in
>California doesn't define a bicycle as a vehicle. Well I've told them
>that that's irrelevant to the accuracy of the Triad since any law
>that doesn't define a bicycle as a vehicle is in _violation_ of the
>Triad. Similarly, any local law that does or doesn't require a
>taillight (an equipment item the importance of which is more open to
>interpretation than, say, the fact that a bicycle is a vehicle),
>doesn't change the fact emphasized in the Triad that a taillight is
>both 1) recommended and 2) not a substitute for a headlight and rear
>reflector.
>
>
>
>
>>and the police wave us through red lights on CM.
>>
>>
>
>
>TF: Very good. The Triad only says to wait at red lights at all
>times "regardless of convenience", not "regardless of whether an
>authorized marshal is waving you through". (Nor - to answer another
>common critique of the Triad - does it say, "regardless of whether
>the signal loop is detecting you".)
>
>If your particular event is _generally_ being run as properly as you
>make it sound like it is (e.g. with _authorized_ marshals, as opposed
>to with plainclothes/spandex-clad road ragers calling
>themselves "corkers"), then why don't you change the name of it to
>something other than C******* M*** and thereby attract some real
>cyclists to it?
>
>
>
>
>>Your email does not go far enough to be useful and is misleading
>>
>>
>for
>
>
>>people outside of the US.
>>
>>
>
>
>TF: Misleading? How? (I mean besides in the nitpicking way that I've
>refuted above.) I was very careful to include you countries of left-
>side drivers, for example, by having the Triad say "same direction as
>the other vehicles on their side of the road" rather than "right
>side".
>
>
>
>
>>Oh also this whole CYCLISTS SHALL business is
>>really condescending, you should rephrase it to sound less preachy.
>>
>>
>
>
>TF: The Triad is equally preachy to motorists as to cyclists (a
>feature that I suspect is more obvious in the paper version, which
>has the two Codes of Conduct side by side rather than one above the
>other; I don't know how to do that on the internet). But I wouldn't
>mind having it appear less preachy period. So, what headings would
>you suggest as alternatives to "CYCLISTS SHALL" and "MOTORISTS
>SHALL"?
>
>
>
>
>>Try to celebrate bikes, we don't need to fit in, we need to take
>>
>>
>over,
>
>
>>leave the cars for those who really need them.
>>
>>
>
>
>TF: You mean like "_Jym_" when he borrows cars when _he_ "needs" them
>according to _his_ criteria of "need" to get to the airport? His
>confession of this can be found by looking deep enough in the CarFree
>yahoo group archives, as can his subsequent unprovoked leap onto a
>bandwagon of attacks on me for being allegedly less carfree than him
>and his fellow not-having-any-farm-to-run carfree-list-incrowd
>members.
>
>Wake up and smell the coffee, ladies and gentlemen: Cyclists
>_must_ "fit in" because C******* M*** _isn't_ _capable_ of "taking
>over". I receive off-list fan mail, and it includes some from a
>source on the left coast who informs me that the only way C*******
>M*** even succeeds in taking over a few streets, for a few minutes
>each, per month, in the CM capital of the world - San Fransisco! - is
>by having many participants from the Thule car-top rack crowd (you
>know, the yuppies who motor to the starts of bike rides - and I guess
>they broke speed laws while doing it, based on what I've consistently
>observed of their east-coast, League of American Liberal Bicyclists
>counterparts) to participate in CM and thereby inflate CM's numbers!
>
>
>- Tom Frost Jr.
>Captain and Sponsor, The Last Bike Ride Out of the 20th Century
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>bumpkinbubba wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>BICYCLISTS' RIGHTS TRIAD:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]