Nancy Koebel wrote:

>
> I don't believe the Indians have EVER had a closer (in the modern era - Hart
> and Shapiro) that came up through their minor league system.  Jose Mesa was
> a converted starter, but he actually began his career with Baltimore and
> probably came over to Cleveland because of the Peters/Hart connection to the
> Orioles.  Jackson, Wickman, Borowski, were all free agent signings.
>

Among current players: Fausto Carmona, Raffy Perez.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gustaaf Brooijmans" <gusbroo@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization


>
> So, very few of these were "groomed" to be closers.  Many failed as
> starters and got some save opportunities before coming to the majors.
> I've always argued starters make the best closers, because they have
> more than 1.5 pitches.
>
I doubt anyone is "groomed" to be a starter from the time they are drafted.
But, at some point in their development, the decision is made to at least
try them there.   All of these guys are now closing from the organization
that drafted or signed them (non-drafted free agents from Latin America)
except for the two I pointed out who were traded from their drafting team
before free agency was achieved.  These teams at some point in the pitcher's
development made the committment to use them as a reliever rather than a
starter  and then discovered the pitcher's ability to close.

It seems that the Indians don't use that process, rather they would obtain a
closer via converting a current reliever or trading/signing one.  There are
closers in our minor league system, but they will never apparently see
action in that role with the major league team.

I don't believe the Indians have EVER had a closer (in the modern era - Hart
and Shapiro) that came up through their minor league system.  Jose Mesa was
a converted starter, but he actually began his career with Baltimore and
probably came over to Cleveland because of the Peters/Hart connection to the
Orioles.  Jackson, Wickman, Borowski, were all free agent signings.

yes that's right.  Eckersley was a starter.  Jose Mesa was once the
Indians opening day starter.  If I remember correctly, they basically
took away one of Mesa's pitches he used as a starter and had him focus
on his two best ones to turn him into a stud.

--- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, Gustaaf Brooijmans <gusbroo@...> wrote:

> I've always argued starters make the best closers, because they have
> more than 1.5 pitches.

Nancy Koebel wrote:
> It seems closers CAN be developed.  Does anyone know how many will be free
> agents?  Or are we going to have questions like we did last year?

What makes you think any top free agent will come to
Cleveland?  They wouldn't come during the Jacobs years, when
the Indians made the playoffs every year and went to two WS.

Yes.  Manning got on his case for sleeping, but then forgave him because that's
just how the game was going.  What Manning missed was that there were TWO teams
playing the game, and only one of them sleeping.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Nancy Koebel
   To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 6:08 PM
   Subject: Re: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "Steven Hubbard" <sfhubbard@...>
   To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:50 AM
   Subject: Re: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization

   >
   > So the other day, Grady fielded a ball in CF that should have been a
   > single,
   > but Pena stretched it to a double and Grady was so surprised he couldn't
   > get
   > off a good throw. Rick Manning went on to explain that it was just the
   > nature of that particular game where balls weren't being hit hard . . . He
   > failed to explain that the team that got the better of this lazy-ball
   > situation was the first-place Tampa Bay Rays who made an agressive play
   > while the last-place Indians were the team that fell asleep. If this
   > Indians team were young and striving to be a good team next year and the
   > year following, they would play good aggressive ball instead of
   > lazy-we-know-we-stink ball.
   >
   Someone, don't recall if radio or TV, did say Grady was asleep at the wheel
   on that one.






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Koebel wrote:

>>
> Here's a list of closers from other teams who were developed within their
> minor league system and not acquired via free agency (note, Joe Nathan was
> not groomed by the Twins, but he was acquired via trade from SF where he was
> developed):

Interesting list.  But I don't understand what you mean, because few of
these were groomed to be closers, and all obviously went through the
minors.  See below.

>
> Papelbon
Starter in 48 of 58 minor league games (and a good one).  Only 1 minor
league save.

> Nathan
Starter in 93 of 126 minor league games (not so good).  Only 2 minor
league saves, in A-.

> Brendan Morrow (successor to Putz)
Starter in 5 of 14 minor league games.  No minor league saves.

> Jenks
Starter in 79 of 117 minor league games (not so good).  19 minor league
saves, in AAA.

> Ryan Franklin (successor to Isringhausen)
(Seattle minor leaguer.)  Starter in 168 of 222 minor league games
(average).  3 saves in the minors in AAA.

> Street
Ah!  He was basically a closer all the way, from NCAA on.

> Sherrill (acquired via trade)
25 (AAA) saves in 214 minor league games (only started 21).

> Putz (99 draft pick of the Mariners)
Starter in 78 of 138 minor league games (so-so).  16 minor league saves.

> Rodriquez, F.
Starter in 42 of 96 minor league games (so-so).  15 minor league saves
(AA & AAA).

> Cordero, C. (drafted by the Expos)
And still with the same team!
6 saves in 21 minor league games, but he also was a close in NCAA.

> Capps
Starter in 22 of 81 minor league games.  22 minor league saves (A and
AA, never played in AAA)

> Corpas
15 starts, 23 saves in 133 minor league games.  Saves mostly in AA.

> Soria
Only 11 minor league games.  (Many minor league years on the DL it seems).

> Wilson, B.
Closer all the way.  (But not very good in the majors so far.)

> Wilson, CJ
Started 70 of 95 minor league games (so-so).  3 minor league saves (2 of
which after his first stint in the majors.)

>
> It seems closers CAN be developed.  Does anyone know how many will be free
> agents?  Or are we going to have questions like we did last year?

So, very few of these were "groomed" to be closers.  Many failed as
starters and got some save opportunities before coming to the majors.
I've always argued starters make the best closers, because they have
more than 1.5 pitches.

That brings me to John Meloan: starter in 29 of 108 minor league games.
   Not good as a starter, but that was also in the PCL, where he was very
successful as a reliever.  The Indians have moved him back to the back
end of the bullpen.  He has a 1.50 ERA, 1.05 WHIP so far in AAA.

He has generally been rather successful as a reliever.


Gus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Hubbard" <sfhubbard@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization


>
> So the other day, Grady fielded a ball in CF that should have been a
> single,
> but Pena stretched it to a double and Grady was so surprised he couldn't
> get
> off a good throw.  Rick Manning went on to explain that it was just the
> nature of that particular game where balls weren't being hit hard . . . He
> failed to explain that the team that got the better of this lazy-ball
> situation was the first-place Tampa Bay Rays who made an agressive play
> while the last-place Indians were the team that fell asleep.   If this
> Indians team were young and striving to be a good team next year and the
> year following, they would play good aggressive ball instead of
> lazy-we-know-we-stink ball.
>
Someone, don't recall if radio or TV, did say Grady was asleep at the wheel
on that one.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <sanok29@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization


>I posted a snip from an article a little bit ago, that
> quoted someone from the Indians' minor league system.  It's
> an organizational decision not to groom closers in the
> minors.  I asked the group if this is stupid thinking, and
> it's looking like it is.
>
Here's a list of closers from other teams who were developed within their
minor league system and not acquired via free agency (note, Joe Nathan was
not groomed by the Twins, but he was acquired via trade from SF where he was
developed):

Papelbon
Nathan
Brendan Morrow (successor to Putz)
Jenks
Ryan Franklin (successor to Isringhausen)
Street
Sherrill (acquired via trade)
Putz (99 draft pick of the Mariners)
Rodriquez, F.
Cordero, C. (drafted by the Expos)
Capps
Corpas
Soria
Wilson, B.
Wilson, CJ

It seems closers CAN be developed.  Does anyone know how many will be free
agents?  Or are we going to have questions like we did last year?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Ferguson" <MFerguson@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization


> Two things.  First, Eric Wedge is not the one to be yelled at concerning
> the closer.  That should be directed at Mark Shapiro.  Wedge can only
> play the players given to him.
>
But if there's someone in AAA who's closing there, why not give them a try?
Or better yet, someone who's setting up there.

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@...>wrote:

> God help us. It's worse than even *I* thought. Now we're grasping onto
> 24 year olds with a 5 ERA in the minors.
>

As a starter.  As a reliever, he was much much muchity much better.

--
Steve Buffum (steve.buffum@...)
Austin, TX 78704
The B-List: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/authors.php?artId=17
Unencumbered by the ghost of Oldberto Hernandez!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

God help us. It's worse than even *I* thought. Now we're grasping onto
24 year olds with a 5 ERA in the minors.

It could happen, I guess. But geez.


-- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, David Shlapak <dshlapak@...> wrote:
>
> Lordy, you're right. I had mercifully forgotten
> about that. I withdraw the editorial comment,
> but still wonder if the ex-Dodger wunderkind
> will get a shot at the job.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 7, 2008, at 0:04, Bob <sanok29@...> wrote:
>
> > Wedge tried it with Carmona.
> >
> > David Shlapak wrote:
> > > Maybe the kid they got from LA in the Blake deal is the closer of
> > the
> > > surprisingly-near future. Except, of course, the Wedgster would
> > never
> > > consider going the K-Rod route and giving the job to a youngster.
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Nancy Koebel


//If they acted like this year was going to do anything to improve the next
year or two (other than getting a couple of prospects), then it would be
worth paying attention.//

Part of the problem is that they're not even doing that.  Look -- these guys
can't even decide who they want as the other player in the CC deal, and this
is supposedly a high-quality prospect who SHOULD be part of the plan.

// However, the wheels have entirely fallen off this
wagon. //

So the other day, Grady fielded a ball in CF that should have been a single,
but Pena stretched it to a double and Grady was so surprised he couldn't get
off a good throw.  Rick Manning went on to explain that it was just the
nature of that particular game where balls weren't being hit hard . . . He
failed to explain that the team that got the better of this lazy-ball
situation was the first-place Tampa Bay Rays who made an agressive play
while the last-place Indians were the team that fell asleep.   If this
Indians team were young and striving to be a good team next year and the
year following, they would play good aggressive ball instead of
lazy-we-know-we-stink ball.


// Wedge has totally lost his players, in my
opinion. A change needs to be made right at the top. //

The players have quit, yes.  It also really looks like the management side
looked at 2007 as vindication that their approach was correct and apparently
stopped putting effort into it.  They ignored all of the evidence that we've
talked about here over the years that there were no particularly promising
trends that this team was headed for greatness.   Shapiro's original premise
was that they would constantly be bringing in talent -- constantly
"rebuilding" if you will.  The last off-season was a complete departure from
that, and for the 2nd or 3rd time in the Wedge/Shapiro era, the team has
played as if they were entitled to something.

To answer BC's question . . . it's better to show utter contempt or the
Indians will not fix their approach.  They will continue in their knowledge
that next year they could improve by 10-20 games through random chance
(which they truly could) and the fans will come back.

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Buffum
// Wedge said. "There's a lot of value in someone
being able to get to the ninth inning, and closers can come from places you
never see coming. The fact is, you never know if someone can close until he
actually does it. The bullpen starts with the closer. The team exudes so
much more confidence when they know that guy is there."
//

Really?  Advice from Indians' management on where closers come from?

The only thing they should know for sure is that they don't come from
Cleveland.

Ultimately, I agree with you.  Wedge has pretty much shown a
reluctance to use young players, unless he has no other option.

David Shlapak wrote:
> Lordy, you're right. I had mercifully forgotten
> about that. I withdraw the editorial comment,
> but still wonder if the ex-Dodger wunderkind
> will get a shot at the job.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 7, 2008, at 0:04, Bob <sanok29@...> wrote:
>
>> Wedge tried it with Carmona.
>>
>> David Shlapak wrote:
>>> Maybe the kid they got from LA in the Blake deal is the closer of
>> the
>>> surprisingly-near future. Except, of course, the Wedgster would
>> never
>>> consider going the K-Rod route and giving the job to a youngster.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Lordy, you're right. I had mercifully forgotten
about that. I withdraw the editorial comment,
but still wonder if the ex-Dodger wunderkind
will get a shot at the job.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 7, 2008, at 0:04, Bob <sanok29@...> wrote:

> Wedge tried it with Carmona.
>
> David Shlapak wrote:
> > Maybe the kid they got from LA in the Blake deal is the closer of
> the
> > surprisingly-near future. Except, of course, the Wedgster would
> never
> > consider going the K-Rod route and giving the job to a youngster.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wedge tried it with Carmona.

David Shlapak wrote:
> Maybe the kid they got from LA in the Blake deal is the closer of the
> surprisingly-near future. Except, of course, the Wedgster would never
> consider going the K-Rod route and  giving the job to a youngster.

On Aug 6, 2008, at 20:53 , Steve Buffum wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Nancy Koebel <nlkoebel@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Also, Wedge has totally lost his players, in my
> > opinion. A change needs to be made right at the top. Sending the
> same
> > characters out there in the 9th inning who have proven HOW many
> times they
> > aren't closer material does nothing. ATTENTION ERIC WEDGE: YOUR
> CLOSER FOR
> > NEXT YEAR IS NOT ON THIS TEAM!!!!!!!
>











Maybe the kid they got from LA in the Blake deal is the closer of the
surprisingly-near future. Except, of course, the Wedgster would never
consider going the K-Rod route and  giving the job to a youngster.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> Eddie Moo = David Riske = Eric Plunk

I'll take a bullpen filled with Eric Plunks.

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Mickey Ferguson <MFerguson@...>wrote:

> Eddie Moo = David Riske = Eric Plunk


I'd take that, of course.  Those guys were real good.
Just not at closing.  But they sure had some great years
setting up.  And we could use that, too.

BTW, Jensen Lewis is David Riske.  Same stuff.  Hope
he makes it all the way to Riske's peak.

--
Steve Buffum (steve.buffum@...)
Austin, TX 78704
The B-List: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/authors.php?artId=17
Unencumbered by the ghost of Oldberto Hernandez!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

//*Perez certainly has the stuff to be considered a closer, but Wedge doesn't
seem to be too keen on moving the 25-year-old into that role. "He's been
very valuable where he is," Wedge said. "There's a lot of value in someone
being able to get to the ninth inning, and closers can come from places you
never see coming. The fact is, you never know if someone can close until he
actually does it. The bullpen starts with the closer. The team exudes so
much more confidence when they know that guy is there."
*//

I don't have a problem with keeping Perez in his current role.  In some ways
what he provides (or at least provided last year) can be more valuable than the
closer.

//For what it's worth, I'm still an irrational Eddie Moo honk.//

And here's where you lost all credibility.  Either that, or your keyboard went a
little crazy and inserted a few letters in between "Moo" and the 'k' in 'honk'. 
Eddie Mook is what you must have meant to write.  Well, I guess since you're
irrational, we can overlook it.  Eddie Moo = David Riske = Eric Plunk.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I posted a snip from an article a little bit ago, that
quoted someone from the Indians' minor league system.  It's
an organizational decision not to groom closers in the
minors.  I asked the group if this is stupid thinking, and
it's looking like it is.

I know there's a huge difference between the Bigs and AAA,
but why not groom someone?

Steve Buffum wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Nancy Koebel <nlkoebel@...> wrote:
>
>> Also, Wedge has totally lost his players, in my
>> opinion. A change needs to be made right at the top. Sending the same
>> characters out there in the 9th inning who have proven HOW many times they
>> aren't closer material does nothing. ATTENTION ERIC WEDGE: YOUR CLOSER FOR
>> NEXT YEAR IS NOT ON THIS TEAM!!!!!!!
>>
>
> Mickey's right: in this Baseball Prospectus piece, John Perrotto
> has Wedge all but calling Shapiro out to get him a Real Closer:
>
>
> *The Indians, at 49-63 and in last place, have been another AL Central
> disappointment after winning the division last season. Manager Eric Wedge is
> already looking ahead to 2009, and has closer as the top of his off-season
> shopping list. Joe Borowski led the AL with 45 saves last season, but was
> released last month after posting a -1.705 WXRL in 16 2/3 innings. The
> Indians have struggled to find any reliable relievers this season;
> left-hander Rafael Perez is the only one to have pitched above replacement
> level with a 1.615 WXRL. "If we don't feel like we can find someone [already
> on the roster] in the next couple of months, and that would be tough to do,
> we need to go out and get somebody, though I know that's easier said than
> done."*
>
> *Perez certainly has the stuff to be considered a closer, but Wedge doesn't
> seem to be too keen on moving the 25-year-old into that role. "He's been
> very valuable where he is," Wedge said. "There's a lot of value in someone
> being able to get to the ninth inning, and closers can come from places you
> never see coming. The fact is, you never know if someone can close until he
> actually does it. The bullpen starts with the closer. The team exudes so
> much more confidence when they know that guy is there."
> *
>
> For what it's worth, I'm still an irrational Eddie Moo honk.
>
>

On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 7:32 PM, Nancy Koebel <nlkoebel@...> wrote:

> Also, Wedge has totally lost his players, in my
> opinion. A change needs to be made right at the top. Sending the same
> characters out there in the 9th inning who have proven HOW many times they
> aren't closer material does nothing. ATTENTION ERIC WEDGE: YOUR CLOSER FOR
> NEXT YEAR IS NOT ON THIS TEAM!!!!!!!
>

Mickey's right: in this Baseball Prospectus piece, John Perrotto
has Wedge all but calling Shapiro out to get him a Real Closer:


*The Indians, at 49-63 and in last place, have been another AL Central
disappointment after winning the division last season. Manager Eric Wedge is
already looking ahead to 2009, and has closer as the top of his off-season
shopping list. Joe Borowski led the AL with 45 saves last season, but was
released last month after posting a -1.705 WXRL in 16 2/3 innings. The
Indians have struggled to find any reliable relievers this season;
left-hander Rafael Perez is the only one to have pitched above replacement
level with a 1.615 WXRL. "If we don't feel like we can find someone [already
on the roster] in the next couple of months, and that would be tough to do,
we need to go out and get somebody, though I know that's easier said than
done."*

*Perez certainly has the stuff to be considered a closer, but Wedge doesn't
seem to be too keen on moving the 25-year-old into that role. "He's been
very valuable where he is," Wedge said. "There's a lot of value in someone
being able to get to the ninth inning, and closers can come from places you
never see coming. The fact is, you never know if someone can close until he
actually does it. The bullpen starts with the closer. The team exudes so
much more confidence when they know that guy is there."
*

For what it's worth, I'm still an irrational Eddie Moo honk.


--
Steve Buffum (steve.buffum@...)
Austin, TX 78704
The B-List: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/authors.php?artId=17
Unencumbered by the ghost of Oldberto Hernandez!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Two things.  First, Eric Wedge is not the one to be yelled at concerning
the closer.  That should be directed at Mark Shapiro.  Wedge can only
play the players given to him.

Second, you're right that Eric Wedge has lost the team.  He should be
fired.  But that has nothing to do with the lack of a closer.

From what I read just now on the Indians web site, Cabrera's sprained
ankle doesn't appear to be too serious.

-----Original Message-----
From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Nancy Koebel
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 5:33 PM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization

If they acted like this year was going to do anything to improve the
next
year or two (other than getting a couple of prospects), then it would be

worth paying attention.  However, the wheels have entirely fallen off
this
wagon.  As far as I'm concerned, they need to send Ryan Garko back to
Buffalo where he might learn how to run out a ball.  He's contributing
nothing to this mess.  Also, Wedge has totally lost his players, in my
opinion.  A change needs to be made right at the top.  Sending the same
characters out there in the 9th inning who have proven HOW many times
they
aren't closer material does nothing.  ATTENTION ERIC WEDGE:  YOUR CLOSER
FOR
NEXT YEAR IS NOT ON THIS TEAM!!!!!!!  Now Asdrubal is hurt and out for
how
long?  What a mess!

If they acted like this year was going to do anything to improve the next
year or two (other than getting a couple of prospects), then it would be
worth paying attention.  However, the wheels have entirely fallen off this
wagon.  As far as I'm concerned, they need to send Ryan Garko back to
Buffalo where he might learn how to run out a ball.  He's contributing
nothing to this mess.  Also, Wedge has totally lost his players, in my
opinion.  A change needs to be made right at the top.  Sending the same
characters out there in the 9th inning who have proven HOW many times they
aren't closer material does nothing.  ATTENTION ERIC WEDGE:  YOUR CLOSER FOR
NEXT YEAR IS NOT ON THIS TEAM!!!!!!!  Now Asdrubel is hurt and out for how
long?  What a mess!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 6:28 PM
Subject: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization


>I can't tell: Is it better to be utterly contemptuous of the Indians?
> Or utterly disinterested in them?
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

All you hear is the chirping of crickets.  The problem is that you
apparently can't translate what they are really saying: Wait until next
year!

-----Original Message-----
From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:29 PM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CSML] The dying sound of a tired organization

I can't tell: Is it better to be utterly contemptuous of the Indians?
Or utterly disinterested in them?

I can't tell: Is it better to be utterly contemptuous of the Indians?
Or utterly disinterested in them?

The announcers during the game last night (radio) said that Victor will probably
go out on a rehab assignment about the time the current road trip ends.  He is
swinging the bat, although not yet taking full batting practice.

They also have said recently, Sunday I think, that now that Hafner's back in
town (his father passed away due to cancer), he will be scheduled sometime this
week or next for another strength test.

The Pd  Sunday reported that Barfield is having some tightness in his surgically
repaired finger, but that is expected with the kind of injury he has.  His
return, if possible, is expected about the end of August.

Nancy Koebel
nlkoebel@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My Time Warner pooped out Wed. night, and wasn't restored until Friday, so I've
been out of touch.  Thursday, my brother and I visited the Lake County Captains
and the Akron Aeros for a game each and saw some pretty good baseball.

Absent any big names at Lake County, the game was pretty well played.  One of
the Ryans (Miller) was the starter for Lake County, went 5 innings and gave up 3
runs.  Only one of them was earned, because of a fielding error.  He was
relieved by Judy who went 2 scoreless innings, and Landis got his 5th save.  The
game was tied for a time until Martin, the right fielder got a home run to right
off the Greensboro starter.  His batting average was .200  before that, and went
up to .273, so he must have been a recent call up and not had a lot of at bats. 
There was a bang-bang play at third, getting a runner who tried to stretch a
double into a triple, for Lake County.  Of course it was a day game, and there
were a lot of rec programs and day camps there.  Noisy.  I'm not sure, but it
looked like Greensboro is an affiliate of the Marlins.

We went to Akron for the nightcap, featuring the Aeros vs. the Erie Seawolves, a
Detroit affiliate.  The Akron lineup featured Wes Hodges, Ryan Goleski, Matt
Whitney, and Wyatt Toregas.  Goleski and Toregas had RBIs.  No home runs, but
Erie errors allowed Akron to score all the runs they needed to win.  Frank
Hermann was the starter for Akron, who pitched 6 innings to get his 9th win and
only gave up a solo HR in the first inning.  He was relieved by Tony Sipp, who
pitched a scoreless inning, and Reid Santos who pitched 2 scoreless innings to
get the save.

For once, we did this and had no torrential rains for floods to contend with
(we've done it before in June, and have had terrible rain storms each time).
Nancy Koebel
nlkoebel@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I actually left Cleveland and moved out to Los Angeles back in
october.  Its weird to see Casey Blake and Manny follow me out here.
The Dodgers organization seems to really think its a huge deal that
this year marks the 50th anniversary of their move from Brooklyn.
They've bought billboards and posters that seem to hang everywhere.  I
get this feeling that the Dodgers are just trying to win this year
because of that, and are willing to mortgage their future to do it.
Strange way to run a franchise.  Its like the glitz of the moment is
all that matters.

--- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, "Mike B." <redhawkmike84@...> wrote:
>
> I don't think Boston lost as much as some people think.  Bay is a
good player, at a much cheaper price, and he will actually play
defense.  LA made out, though, and they are now the favorite in their
division.  As for Griffey, I don't think he will make much of an
impact.  He is fading.
>
> Red
>
>
> --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Bob <sanok29@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Bob <sanok29@...>
> > Subject: [CSML] Trades
> > To: "CSML" <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:11 PM
> > Manny is now a Dodger.  Jason Bay goes to Boston.  Griffey
> > is a White Sox.  What do you think?
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

I don't think Boston lost as much as some people think.  Bay is a good player,
at a much cheaper price, and he will actually play defense.  LA made out,
though, and they are now the favorite in their division.  As for Griffey, I
don't think he will make much of an impact.  He is fading.

Red


--- On Thu, 7/31/08, Bob <sanok29@...> wrote:

> From: Bob <sanok29@...>
> Subject: [CSML] Trades
> To: "CSML" <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 6:11 PM
> Manny is now a Dodger.  Jason Bay goes to Boston.  Griffey
> is a White Sox.  What do you think?
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>