I am so glad to see my favorite pitcher back on track. What an April
for him. CC and Carmona need to study his delivery. He's rockin' so
far this year. Keep it UP! Go Tribe!

Mickey, I understand what you are saying about the
announcers on TV, but I believe that they usually do
know about what they are speaking.  Most of the color
men played the game, or managed, and they know a lot
more than the average fan.  I think what they said
about Hafner was right on.  He's definitely off.

Red


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
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I'd like to see a BROCK2 projection on him after the '06 season.

--- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Koebel" <nlkoebel@...> wrote:
>
> You know, he hasn't been the same since he was hit by the pitch and
missed
> the end of the 2006 season.  I don't know if it's a reaction to
getting hit
> (which a pro player shouldn't have) or if he never really healed
right.  He
> was somewhat better last year than this, at least getting RBI.  But his
> power just isn't there.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob" <combatmission@...>
> To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [CSML] Tribe: Travis Hafner
>
>
> > Gustaaf Brooijmans wrote:
> >> Because he rarely pulls the ball anymore.  Looks like he's trying
to hit
> >> everything the other way.  He also has a timing problem it seems: big
> >> fat meatball right down the pipe and he just stands there.
> >
> > Last night, the game was on ESPN.  The play-by-play
> > announcer asked Orel Herschiser, and the other color guy (I
> > don't know who it was), their thoughts on Hafner.
> > Basically, they both said his timing is off.  When he steps
> > into a pitch, he isn't getting his front foot set on the
> > ground, so he can't drive the ball.  Herschiser stated that
> > this also causes his eye level to move, which further hurts
> > his timing.
> >
> > Saying all that, what happened that led to Hafner's timing
> > being off for the 2007 season and the first month of this
> > season?  Is he injured?  Does he need glasses?  Is he off
> > roids?  Is he done?  What's happening?
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey Ferguson" <MFerguson@...> wrote:
>
> Or, we're just seeing another instance of an announcer saying something
> that sounds really insightful, and he really has no idea what he's
> talking about,

That's because the FCC won't let him say "sucks."

At least they're not paying $126 million for a relief pitcher.

Nancy Koebel
nlkoebel@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You know, he hasn't been the same since he was hit by the pitch and missed
the end of the 2006 season.  I don't know if it's a reaction to getting hit
(which a pro player shouldn't have) or if he never really healed right.  He
was somewhat better last year than this, at least getting RBI.  But his
power just isn't there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <combatmission@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [CSML] Tribe: Travis Hafner


> Gustaaf Brooijmans wrote:
>> Because he rarely pulls the ball anymore.  Looks like he's trying to hit
>> everything the other way.  He also has a timing problem it seems: big
>> fat meatball right down the pipe and he just stands there.
>
> Last night, the game was on ESPN.  The play-by-play
> announcer asked Orel Herschiser, and the other color guy (I
> don't know who it was), their thoughts on Hafner.
> Basically, they both said his timing is off.  When he steps
> into a pitch, he isn't getting his front foot set on the
> ground, so he can't drive the ball.  Herschiser stated that
> this also causes his eye level to move, which further hurts
> his timing.
>
> Saying all that, what happened that led to Hafner's timing
> being off for the 2007 season and the first month of this
> season?  Is he injured?  Does he need glasses?  Is he off
> roids?  Is he done?  What's happening?
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Or, we're just seeing another instance of an announcer saying something
that sounds really insightful, and he really has no idea what he's
talking about, whether it's really the problem or not.  But he sounds so
smart, and 99% of the viewers will buy whatever he says.  I'm not saying
this is the case this time, but I've seen it many other times.  If you
can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your BS.

-----Original Message-----
From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:14 AM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CSML] Tribe: Travis Hafner

--- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, Bob <combatmission@...> wrote:
> Last night, the game was on ESPN.  The play-by-play
> announcer asked Orel Herschiser, and the other color guy (I
> don't know who it was), their thoughts on Hafner.
> Basically, they both said his timing is off.  When he steps
> into a pitch, he isn't getting his front foot set on the
> ground, so he can't drive the ball.  Herschiser stated that
> this also causes his eye level to move, which further hurts
> his timing.
>

Yeah, that was right after a short look inside the video room the
Indians have and claims about how the Indians are technically at the
forefront of the game.

Maybe Travis doesn't know where the room is.

--- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, Bob <combatmission@...> wrote:
> Last night, the game was on ESPN.  The play-by-play
> announcer asked Orel Herschiser, and the other color guy (I
> don't know who it was), their thoughts on Hafner.
> Basically, they both said his timing is off.  When he steps
> into a pitch, he isn't getting his front foot set on the
> ground, so he can't drive the ball.  Herschiser stated that
> this also causes his eye level to move, which further hurts
> his timing.
>

Yeah, that was right after a short look inside the video room the
Indians have and claims about how the Indians are technically at the
forefront of the game.

Maybe Travis doesn't know where the room is.

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Gustaaf Brooijmans <
gusbroo@...> wrote:

> Bob wrote:
> > Hafner has got to be injured. He doesn't drive the ball
> > anymore.
> >
>
> Because he rarely pulls the ball anymore. Looks like he's trying to hit
> everything the other way. He also has a timing problem it seems: big
> fat meatball right down the pipe and he just stands there.
>

That's why I don't think it's his muscles but his eyes.  I
think he literally isn't seeing the ball the same way he
used to.  He's forced to wait on everything before recognizing
it: his worst swings are when he looks like he's trying to pull
the ball and "guesses wrong," missing breaking pitches by
a foot and a half.  The thought of him facing Rivera or
Chamberlain is terrifying.
> Travis Hafner is now an $8 million Casey Blake.

Dude, get with the times.  Casey Blake is already a $6M
Casey Blake.  Hafner is an EIGHT-figure Casey Blake.

--
Steve Buffum (steve.buffum@...)
Austin, TX 78704
The B-List: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/authors.php?artId=17
Unencumbered by the ghost of Oldberto Hernandez!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gustaaf Brooijmans wrote:
> Because he rarely pulls the ball anymore.  Looks like he's trying to hit
> everything the other way.  He also has a timing problem it seems: big
> fat meatball right down the pipe and he just stands there.

Last night, the game was on ESPN.  The play-by-play
announcer asked Orel Herschiser, and the other color guy (I
don't know who it was), their thoughts on Hafner.
Basically, they both said his timing is off.  When he steps
into a pitch, he isn't getting his front foot set on the
ground, so he can't drive the ball.  Herschiser stated that
this also causes his eye level to move, which further hurts
his timing.

Saying all that, what happened that led to Hafner's timing
being off for the 2007 season and the first month of this
season?  Is he injured?  Does he need glasses?  Is he off
roids?  Is he done?  What's happening?

Bob wrote:
> Hafner has got to be injured.  He doesn't drive the ball
> anymore.
>

Because he rarely pulls the ball anymore.  Looks like he's trying to hit
everything the other way.  He also has a timing problem it seems: big
fat meatball right down the pipe and he just stands there.

Gus

Thanks.

Evan Ruff wrote:
> Baseball-reference.com is the uber split site.
>
> theHardballtimes.com has all the fancypants new stats.
>
> E
>
>
> From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Bob
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:44 AM
> To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [CSML] Stats Site
>
>
> Is there a site that gives career hitting stats on how a
> player does against lefty and righty pitching? The MLB site
> has only the current season.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Baseball-reference.com is the uber split site.

theHardballtimes.com has all the fancypants new stats.

E


From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Bob
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 7:44 AM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CSML] Stats Site


Is there a site that gives career hitting stats on how a
player does against lefty and righty pitching? The MLB site
has only the current season.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Is there a site that gives career hitting stats on how a
player does against lefty and righty pitching?  The MLB site
has only the current season.

Hafner has got to be injured.  He doesn't drive the ball
anymore.

Evan Ruff wrote:
> his PECOTA 10% project was a 810 OPS. His current OPS is 670 and his BABIP is
275.
>
> Short Version: This is a third order collapse.
>
> Just unbelievable. Just so frustrating.
>
> E
>
>
> From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of bdeepe@...
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:15 PM
> To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [CSML] Tribe: Travis Hafner
>
>
> What is with Travis? He seems to foul a lot of meatball fastballs off to the
left side..has been going on all year. Those are the same pitches he used to
crush!
>
> ---- Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@...<mailto:bcollinsrv7a%40comcast.net>>
wrote:
>> Travis Hafner is now an $8 million Casey Blake.
>>
>> Bases loaded, nobody out, middle of the lineup and they could only
>> get 1 run in tonight? Gahhhhhh!
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

his PECOTA 10% project was a 810 OPS. His current OPS is 670 and his BABIP is
275.

Short Version: This is a third order collapse.

Just unbelievable. Just so frustrating.

E


From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
bdeepe@...
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:15 PM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CSML] Tribe: Travis Hafner


What is with Travis? He seems to foul a lot of meatball fastballs off to the
left side..has been going on all year. Those are the same pitches he used to
crush!

---- Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@...<mailto:bcollinsrv7a%40comcast.net>>
wrote:
> Travis Hafner is now an $8 million Casey Blake.
>
> Bases loaded, nobody out, middle of the lineup and they could only
> get 1 run in tonight? Gahhhhhh!
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What is with Travis?  He seems to foul a lot of meatball fastballs off to the
left side..has been going on all year.  Those are the same pitches he used to
crush!


---- Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a@...> wrote:
> Travis Hafner is now an $8 million Casey Blake.
>
>  Bases loaded, nobody out, middle of the lineup and they could only
> get 1 run in tonight? Gahhhhhh!
>

Travis Hafner is now an $8 million Casey Blake.

  Bases loaded, nobody out, middle of the lineup and they could only
get 1 run in tonight? Gahhhhhh!

On 4/26/08, Nancy Koebel <nlkoebel@...> wrote:
>
> Either that or he made a deal with the Devil.
>

About time Sandy Alomar's deal expired.

--
Steve Buffum (steve.buffum@...)
Austin, TX 78704
The B-List: http://www.theclevelandfan.com/authors.php?artId=17
Unencumbered by the ghost of Oldberto Hernandez!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 11:44 AM
Subject: [CSML] Cliff Lee


> OK, up to now it's been worth a giggle or two. Cliff Lee....ace.
> Hahahahaha. Oops, sorry. See what I mean.
>
> But now.... not it's reached the stage of frightening phenomenon. You
> know, like why are frogs growing a fifth leg all of a sudden. Or why
> are ice shelves the size of Connecticut collapsing in Antarctica.
>
> Cliff Lee... early Cy Young candidate. Surely this means the end is
> near.
>
Either that or he made a deal with the Devil.

ERA+ Leaders (from Baseball-Reference.com)
Adjusted ERA+
Lee-CLE 1563
Greinke-KCR 365
Hernandez-SEA 250
Eveland-OAK 213
Bannister-KCR 183
1563... HA!


E

From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
todd sawicki
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 4:46 PM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CSML] Cliff Lee


Great writeup from the Bpro blog (no sub required):

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=852

- todd

On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Mickey Ferguson wrote:

I'm just wondering how many "great googly moogly" comments Steve will
have in today's B-List.

-----Original Message-----
From: clesports@yahoogroups.com<mailto:clesports%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com<mailto:clesports%40yahoogroups.com>] On
Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:45 AM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com<mailto:clesports%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [CSML] Cliff Lee

OK, up to now it's been worth a giggle or two. Cliff Lee....ace.
Hahahahaha. Oops, sorry. See what I mean.

But now.... not it's reached the stage of frightening phenomenon. You
know, like why are frogs growing a fifth leg all of a sudden. Or why
are ice shelves the size of Connecticut collapsing in Antarctica.

Cliff Lee... early Cy Young candidate. Surely this means the end is
near.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great writeup from the Bpro blog (no sub required):

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=852

- todd

On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Mickey Ferguson wrote:

I'm just wondering how many "great googly moogly" comments Steve will
have in today's B-List.

-----Original Message-----
From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:45 AM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CSML] Cliff Lee

OK, up to now it's been worth a giggle or two. Cliff Lee....ace.
Hahahahaha. Oops, sorry. See what I mean.

But now.... not it's reached the stage of frightening phenomenon. You
know, like why are frogs growing a fifth leg all of a sudden. Or why
are ice shelves the size of Connecticut collapsing in Antarctica.

Cliff Lee... early Cy Young candidate. Surely this means the end is
near.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm just wondering how many "great googly moogly" comments Steve will
have in today's B-List.

-----Original Message-----
From: clesports@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clesports@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:45 AM
To: clesports@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CSML] Cliff Lee

OK, up to now it's been worth a giggle or two. Cliff Lee....ace.
Hahahahaha. Oops, sorry. See what I mean.

But now.... not it's reached the stage of frightening phenomenon. You
know, like why are frogs growing a fifth leg all of a sudden. Or why
are ice shelves the size of Connecticut collapsing in Antarctica.

Cliff Lee... early Cy Young candidate. Surely this means the end is
near.

OK, up to now it's been worth a giggle or two. Cliff Lee....ace.
Hahahahaha. Oops, sorry. See what I mean.

But now.... not it's reached the stage of frightening phenomenon. You
know, like why are frogs growing a fifth leg all of a sudden. Or why
are ice shelves the size of Connecticut collapsing in Antarctica.

Cliff Lee... early Cy Young candidate. Surely this means the end is
near.

ML = minor league

On Apr 24, 2008, at 8:16 AM, todd sawicki wrote:

Now bob law of small samples does apply - Francisco is a 300 career ML
hitter who with another small sample in spring training hit 300 avg
the two and you get 250.

If it moves the team one step closer to dumping michaels then thank god

- todd

On Apr 24, 2008, at 5:24 AM, Bob Collins wrote:

  > --- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Koebel" <nlkoebel@...>
wrote:
  > >
  > > > month, it makes sense to call up a position player. Not sure who
  > else was
  > > > a better choice..maybe Gonzalez,
  >
  > That was my point. If a .188 AAA hitting outfielder is your BEST
  > choice... well.....
  >
  >
  >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Now bob law of small samples does apply - Francisco is a 300 career ML
hitter who with another small sample in spring training hit 300 avg
the two and you get 250.

If it moves the team one step closer to dumping michaels then thank god

- todd

On Apr 24, 2008, at 5:24 AM, Bob Collins wrote:

> --- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Koebel" <nlkoebel@...> wrote:
> >
> > > month, it makes sense to call up a position player. Not sure who
> else was
> > > a better choice..maybe Gonzalez,
>
> That was my point. If a .188 AAA hitting outfielder is your BEST
> choice... well.....
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In clesports@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Koebel" <nlkoebel@...> wrote:
>
> > month, it makes sense to call up a position player.  Not sure who
else was
> > a better choice..maybe Gonzalez,

That was my point. If a .188 AAA hitting outfielder is your BEST
choice... well.....

----- Original Message -----
From: <bdeepe@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [CSML] Westbook to DL


> Well, seeing as that we don't need another starter until the 26th of this
> month, it makes sense to call up a position player.  Not sure who else was
> a better choice..maybe Gonzalez, but he would have required someone to
> move off of the 40 man roster.  I wonder if Sipp is a candidate to move to
> the 60 day DL, and thus open a 40 man roster spot.  I guess Barfield is
> another who could have beenr recalled, but he isn't doing much better than
> Francisco.
>
> Of course, the other question is...will Francisco actually play?  And who
> leaves the 25 man roster, and how, when a starter (presumably Laffey) is
> called up to start Saturday.
>
Someone with options.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim" <jim@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [CSML] Tribe: Zzzzzz


>
> The similarity between this team and the Tribe teams of the late 1970's
> is striking.  Yeah, I know, the talent level is higher, but I'm struck
> by the way that the minute we get behind, I just assume we're going to
> lose.  I hate that.  The Tribe will be my team forever, but I still
> hate that feeling.  It went away in the 1990s.  Now, it's come back.
>
Last year they found ways to win, even from behind.  That spark is gone.  I
don't know if the success? they had last year made them think they could
start where they left of or not, but this team isn't veteran enough to rest
on any laurels.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Hubbard" <sfhubbard@...>
To: <clesports@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [CSML] Tribe: Zzzzzz
>>
>
> Yes.  I have no doubt that Wedge and Shapiro have mastered the "even" in
> "even keel".    The trouble is that "even keel" is not a good approach if
> the "keel" isn't a good one at the start.
>
>
I thought after 2005 and 2006, and with the success they had last year, that
they might have learned that coming out of spring training prepared and with
a good start was beneficial.  Instead, we're back to having a weak April,
especially the hitters, and will probably put us in a hole that they won't
climb out of in time for September.