> the manly art of pugilism.

Hee :)!

Better make that "and womanly art."  After seeing some great new female
faces in Tim and Ken's pugilism and grappling classes this past weekend in
Lansing it seems the trend that is occuring in modern boxing is
transfering to pugilism as well!

(BTW, no offense taken at the "manly" comment :)!)

Welcome to the list Daniel!
-Missy

Welcome aboard Daniel.

Craig G


>From: L_o_r_d__Byron@...
>Reply-To: classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com
>To: classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [classicpugilism] Newbie
>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:10:43 -0000
>
>Hi all,
>
>     I just came in the door, and look forward to posting with you
>guys and learning more on the manly art of pugilism. Just wanted to
>say hello.
>
>Daniel McCallister
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Hi all,

     I just came in the door, and look forward to posting with you
guys and learning more on the manly art of pugilism. Just wanted to
say hello.

Daniel McCallister

OK, well I just got back from ISMAC Sunday night so I figured I'd post
some about it.  More will come as they are completed.

I'll be posting reviews of classes and impressions of the weekend to
appropriate (and "on topic") lists.  Since I participate in several
lists and I know that many of you do too, please don't be offended if
you see my posts on, for instance, Sabre class in both the
[Broadsword_Heavy_Sabre] forum as well as the [Western-Arts] forum.
I'll keep the posts on Pugilism to the
[ClassicPugilism]/[Western-Arts] forums and off the Bladed Weapons
related forums.

And so, here it comes!

Peace favor your sword

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:19:06 -0700 (PDT), Stefan sturma
<stefan_sturma@...> wrote:

> hello
> Thanks,your reply has helped alot.The pushstep well if memory serves me
> right,is when you push off with your rear foot to advance,and also if
> you want to retreat push off with the front foot as you retreat.

THat's what I thought you meant:) Yes that really is part of the step and
slide motion but Dempsey does mention the spring as a source of power used
along witht he drop step.

Ken

Pugilism - Punching, Wrestling & Kicking seperated after the introduction of Boxing Rules, the kicking element (Purring in England / Possing in Scotland) continued in country fairs as the 'Shin Kicking' event, although this died out it was still part of playground activities called Shinny, Cutlegs and Stampers (Stamping on toes).

 

In my schooldays (Late 1960's, 70's) my Scots/Irish mother taught me one fighting technique which involved kicking.... Rush your opponent grabbing his hair, pull the head down, your arms now straightened out, then kick into the face.

I used this technique throughout my youth, including a School  fight when I attended Dades Junior High in Florida. The shock of pulling someone's hair in a fight in the US school made me a very unpopular teenager.

 

Louie : )

--- Stuart McDermid <s_j_mc@...> wrote:

<snip> Hi Joseph,

> When I started Asian martial arts in early 90s my
> (English) Mother
> wasn't comfortable with the fact that we were
> kicking. "Donkeys
> Kick", she used to say. My (English) Father didn't
> say anything but

Thats funny. I lived in England until I was ten... my
father was Irish born and my mother was Scott/English
and I remember that very saying ("Donkeys
Kick") from both of them... heh, I learned to kick
anyway :-)

As I remember one of my da's favorite weapons as a
child was the buckle end of a leather belt...

See ya

Kon



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Hi Joseph,

There aren't any kicks in classical English bare knuckle boxing as
both social convention and the rules of the game precluded their use.

When I started Asian martial arts in early 90s my (English) Mother
wasn't comfortable with the fact that we were kicking. "Donkeys
Kick", she used to say. My (English) Father didn't say anything but
it was plain to tell he thought much the same way. You can't
underestimate the power of social conventions and their effect on
society. If you read some of the late 1800s early 1900s literature on
Boxe Francaise then you can see this pretty plainly.

If you want to add kicking and make a hybrid art then you will have
to look to Boxe Francaise (which adopted British boxing anyway) or to
the purring methods of Devonshire wrestling (clinch only AFAIK).

Lastly, don't forget that there were almost as many different styles
of pugilism as there were pugilists back in the day. I can think of 5
different documented ways of holding a guard alone.
Cheers,
Stu.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:05:12 +0000, Joseph wrote:

> Hello everyone

Hi Joseph...sorry I took so long to respond.

>
> Ok i have another question.Ok I have an artical that has boxing foot
> work in it and describes how to do the footwork,but I want to know
> this.
> Was these methods of footwork used by our BKB forefathers,or are they
> just used by todays boxers.The footwork is as follows:
>
> 1;Rockshuffle

I've always heard this called this a rockershuffle. I have not seen that
it was used by the old timers but there are some reports of rather active
footwork int he past. I would say if it works for you use it:) I do it.
>
> 2;Pushstep

I am not exactly sure what is meant by pushstep...I'll let you describe it
further before I comment.

>
> 3;Dropstep

Definitely! Best treatment of it is Dempsey's Championship fighting...not
exactly bkb but it draws from the roots very strongly.

>
> 4;step and slide

Yup...as well as using a gathering step. Meaning....draw your rear foot
even with your lead then step forward with either foot back into a lead
and rear stance.

>
>
> I don't mean to be a pest about foot work,it's just i want to make
> sure that what I learn is what they used back then.

Not a pest at all....it was a good topic to bring up.

Ken



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On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 01:05:12 +0000, Joseph <stefan_sturma@...> wrote:

> Hello everyone

Hi Joseph...sorry I took so long to respond.

>
> Ok i have another question.Ok I have an artical that has boxing foot
> work in it and describes how to do the footwork,but I want to know
> this.
> Was these methods of footwork used by our BKB forefathers,or are they
> just used by todays boxers.The footwork is as follows:
>
> 1;Rockshuffle

I've always heard this called this a rockershuffle. I have not seen that
it was used by the old timers but there are some reports of rather active
footwork int he past. I would say if it works for you use it:) I do it.
>
> 2;Pushstep

I am not exactly sure what is meant by pushstep...I'll let you describe it
further before I comment.

>
> 3;Dropstep

Definitely! Best treatment of it is Dempsey's Championship fighting...not
exactly bkb but it draws from the roots very strongly.

>
> 4;step and slide

Yup...as well as using a gathering step. Meaning....draw your rear foot
even with your lead then step forward with either foot back into a lead
and rear stance.

>
>
> I don't mean to be a pest about foot work,it's just i want to make
> sure that what I learn is what they used back then.

Not a pest at all....it was a good topic to bring up.

Ken

Only so much you can do with an eye as messed up as that


--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "bakerstman"
<bakerstman@y...> wrote:
> This is a decent fight. The winner busts up the loser pretty easily
> with only a few punches. I was disappointed at how the loser kept
> giving up. I suppose I would too if I was in his position, but I
> would have liked to see a more vigorous fight. Still, keep the
fight
> clips coming, especially the bare knuckle ones.
>
>
> --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
> <fuhu_zhuang@y...> wrote:
> > If you liked the irish fight your gonna love this one.
> >
> > http://www.sublimedirectory.com/basement/media/kimbo.wmv
> >
> > Dont have any info on it just found it on the web.

This is a decent fight. The winner busts up the loser pretty easily
with only a few punches. I was disappointed at how the loser kept
giving up. I suppose I would too if I was in his position, but I
would have liked to see a more vigorous fight. Still, keep the fight
clips coming, especially the bare knuckle ones.


--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
<fuhu_zhuang@y...> wrote:
> If you liked the irish fight your gonna love this one.
>
> http://www.sublimedirectory.com/basement/media/kimbo.wmv
>
> Dont have any info on it just found it on the web.

Please.
Would it fit in e mail?

ivan_albrecht@...


--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "James Marwood"
<james.marwood@j...> wrote:
> I can mail it to you if you like...
>
> --
> www.OddBlogbGod.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fuhu_zhuang [mailto:fuhu_zhuang@y...]
> Sent: 22 July 2004 14:32
> To: classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [classicpugilism] Re: Irish travellers bare knuckle boxing
vid.
>
>
> By the way did any of you guys save that clip to another location
as
> the link doesnt seem to be working...
>
> ?
>
> --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
> <fuhu_zhuang@y...> wrote:
> > I dont have any more info on this, I just found it on the web and
> > thought you guys might be interested.
> >
> >
> > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "bakerstman"
> > <bakerstman@y...> wrote:
> > > I agree. This video is fun to watch. The title made it seem like
> > > this was a championship bout, but the loser of the fight didn't
> > seem
> > > like much of a match to the winner. You have to give him credit,
> > > though. He came back for more despite being bloodied and
knocked
> > > down several times. If you have any more videos of bare-knuckle
> > > fights, please let us know!
> > >
> > > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Pfrenger"
> > > <kenpfrenger@n...> wrote:
> > > > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
> > > <fuhu_zhuang@y..
> > > > .> wrote:
> > > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fer0x13/pikeys.wmv
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello everyone

Ok i have another question.Ok I have an artical that has boxing foot
work in it and describes how to do the footwork,but I want to know
this.
Was these methods of footwork used by our BKB forefathers,or are they
just used by todays boxers.The footwork is as follows:

1;Rockshuffle

2;Pushstep

3;Dropstep

4;step and slide


I don't mean to be a pest about foot work,it's just i want to make
sure that what I learn is what they used back then.

Thanks.
Joseph

I can mail it to you if you like...

--
www.OddBlogbGod.com


-----Original Message-----
From: fuhu_zhuang [mailto:fuhu_zhuang@...]
Sent: 22 July 2004 14:32
To: classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [classicpugilism] Re: Irish travellers bare knuckle boxing vid.


By the way did any of you guys save that clip to another location as
the link doesnt seem to be working...

?

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
<fuhu_zhuang@y...> wrote:
> I dont have any more info on this, I just found it on the web and
> thought you guys might be interested.
>
>
> --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "bakerstman"
> <bakerstman@y...> wrote:
> > I agree. This video is fun to watch. The title made it seem like
> > this was a championship bout, but the loser of the fight didn't
> seem
> > like much of a match to the winner. You have to give him credit,
> > though. He came back for more despite being bloodied and knocked
> > down several times. If you have any more videos of bare-knuckle
> > fights, please let us know!
> >
> > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Pfrenger"
> > <kenpfrenger@n...> wrote:
> > > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
> > <fuhu_zhuang@y..
> > > .> wrote:
> > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fer0x13/pikeys.wmv





Yahoo! Groups Links

By the way did any of you guys save that clip to another location as
the link doesnt seem to be working...

?

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
<fuhu_zhuang@y...> wrote:
> I dont have any more info on this, I just found it on the web and
> thought you guys might be interested.
>
>
> --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "bakerstman"
> <bakerstman@y...> wrote:
> > I agree. This video is fun to watch. The title made it seem like
> > this was a championship bout, but the loser of the fight didn't
> seem
> > like much of a match to the winner. You have to give him credit,
> > though. He came back for more despite being bloodied and knocked
> > down several times. If you have any more videos of bare-knuckle
> > fights, please let us know!
> >
> > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Pfrenger"
> > <kenpfrenger@n...> wrote:
> > > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
> > <fuhu_zhuang@y..
> > > .> wrote:
> > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fer0x13/pikeys.wmv

If you liked the irish fight your gonna love this one.

http://www.sublimedirectory.com/basement/media/kimbo.wmv

Dont have any info on it just found it on the web.

I dont have any more info on this, I just found it on the web and
thought you guys might be interested.


--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "bakerstman"
<bakerstman@y...> wrote:
> I agree. This video is fun to watch. The title made it seem like
> this was a championship bout, but the loser of the fight didn't
seem
> like much of a match to the winner. You have to give him credit,
> though. He came back for more despite being bloodied and knocked
> down several times. If you have any more videos of bare-knuckle
> fights, please let us know!
>
> --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Pfrenger"
> <kenpfrenger@n...> wrote:
> > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
> <fuhu_zhuang@y..
> > .> wrote:
> > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fer0x13/pikeys.wmv

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "stefan_sturma"
<stefan_sturma@y...> wrote:
> Ello Ello again
> I am seeking a copy of Science of self defence by Edmund Price for
> sell.I have found it online for about $14.00,it's a paperback verison
> printed in the 70's,but as I have no credit card,i can not buy it,i
> could go thruogh my local libray,but would rather get a copy that i
> can say is all mine.
> so if anyone has a spoare copy they would sale,plez let me know are
> if you know of a website to a company that has it for sale that i can
> order it from with out haveing a creditcard,plez let me know.
> either way anyhelp will be most welcome.
> Thanks .
> Stefan

There was an online copy somewhere.  You could print it out.

I understand that there's the emotional content of holding a "real
book" as opposed to just a printout.

Let me know if you can't find it.  (e-mail me)

Peace favor your sword

--- Melissa Iverson <missy@...> wrote:

<snip>
> Well Stefan,
> Will you be at ISMAC in Lansing, MI in August?  If
> you can at all make it,
> I STRONGLY suggest doing so.  You'll get a chance to
> work with both Tim
> and Ken, and
> you can beat the pants off of me :).  Besides, ISMAC
> is just plain old fun
> as well as an incredible learning experience.

> -Missy

Hi all. I have brought this up on the bata list but I
have received very little response. I live in Lansing
and would like to have a few people over for a BBQ and
some stick work... but some BKB would be okay too
:-)

Anyway if anyone is interested let me know...

Thanks

Gary (kon)




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Ello Ello again
I am seeking a copy of Science of self defence by Edmund Price for
sell.I have found it online for about $14.00,it's a paperback verison
printed in the 70's,but as I have no credit card,i can not buy it,i
could go thruogh my local libray,but would rather get a copy that i
can say is all mine.
so if anyone has a spoare copy they would sale,plez let me know are
if you know of a website to a company that has it for sale that i can
order it from with out haveing a creditcard,plez let me know.
either way anyhelp will be most welcome.
Thanks .
Stefan

Hi everyone.

Now before I say anything else i am going to put on my shin gaurds to
protect against anyone purrs to my shins.wuth that said.
   I have only been practicing BKB(on my on), for a few days now,and i
understand that the principles of fencing was a part of BKB at one
time,so I started reading a fencing book i had titled "The Art of the
Foil",by Luigi Barbasetti,in order to eventually start adding the
principles of fencing to my BKB,but I could not figure out hot to
apply them to BKB,until i read my copy of Bruce Lee's "Tao of Jeet
Kune Do",and I am now beginning to see how to apply them.
Also I have a book on Savate ,by Bruce Tegner,"Savate:French Foot &
Fist Fighting",I found it a few days ago some one dropped in on the
side of the road and it is well used.2 or 3 oof the stances are alot
like BKB stances,it has some unique methods of blocing and parrying
kicks.I was wondering if anyone else here has a copy of Tegners book
on Savate,if not when I have the chance I will start posting stuff
from it.
Also speaking of Bruce Lee I read where he spent $500 on an old BKB
book,and one of the techniuqes(misspelled)to keep your opponet from
getting out of range once you get in to in-range was to place your
foot on top of his.I used to practice Karate as  the basics of Modern
Boxing which I would used in classes some times and even using the
modern stuff when i tried the stepping on the foot tactic they never
got away from me then;).I am finding that I love BKB so much more
then anyother unarmed fighting style i have studied.
For now Cheery Who.
Stefan.

Well Stefan,

If you're working off of Ken's and Tim's stuff, you're definately headed
in the right direction!  These 2 are some of the best around :)!  (Ken,
Tim, can you hear the "sucking up" sounds from where you're at :)?)

Seriously though, they are.  Been working with them and a few others for
about 4-5 years now, and although I get very little practice with them (as
we all live in different states) my time with them is NEVER wasted.

Will you be at ISMAC in Lansing, MI in August?  If you can at all make it,
I STRONGLY suggest doing so.  You'll get a chance to work with both Tim
and Ken, (can't remember which other unarmed fellows will be there), and
you can beat the pants off of me :).  Besides, ISMAC is just plain old fun
as well as an incredible learning experience.

-Missy

hello

I am seeking information on the footwork and kicks of classical
pugilism .

I live in an area where there are no schools that teach classical
pugilism and have adopted the Stance used under the london Prize ring
rules,and the stance used under the Broughton rules,shown in the
artical "A Discussion of Boxing Stances Through History",by Ken
Pfrenger,and the punching methods shown and written about in the
artical From Bare-Knuckles to Modern boxing by Tim Ruzicki.
If anyone can help I would be most welcome.
Also before i forget could someone give me the terms used in
Classical Pugilism and there meanins also.
Thanks

Joseph

I don't recall anyone sharing this site before. Plenty
of old boxing photos and paraphrenalia.

http://www.antekprizering.com/




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Ken Pfrenger <kenpfrenger@...> wrote:

> Thanks for sending that link our way. The most
> interesting thing I
> have seen on the net in quite some time. Even if it
> was more than a
> bit ugly. I'd be more than happy to discuss the
> contents if anyone is
> interested.

It seems to me that if the loser had gone southpaw it
would have helped do away with the distraction of the
other guy's hand. I think the loser was outmatched,
but he definitely could have done better (Ignore the
distraction and focus on landing some good punches:-).

Thanks

Kon



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> Even if it was more than a
>bit ugly. I'd be more than happy to disucss the contents if anyone is
>interested.

Half way through the fight I wanted to scream at the challenger, "Stop worrying
about his left pistoning at you, he's not *doing* anything with it.  Keep your
*left guard* UP!!!!"  Then he'd get plastered with that power right rounding
blow.

:P

Peace favor your sword
---
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge
of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536

I agree. This video is fun to watch. The title made it seem like
this was a championship bout, but the loser of the fight didn't seem
like much of a match to the winner. You have to give him credit,
though. He came back for more despite being bloodied and knocked
down several times. If you have any more videos of bare-knuckle
fights, please let us know!

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Pfrenger"
<kenpfrenger@n...> wrote:
> --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "fuhu_zhuang"
<fuhu_zhuang@y..
> .> wrote:
> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fer0x13/pikeys.wmv