Hello Mr. Thurston,

yes, you are right. But as producer or director this would one of the first
things to do, to be historically accurate, or to be as close to the era as
possible. By the way, did anyone see the pugilism scene in "Gangs of New York"
and what do experts have to say about it?

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "gvurrdon" <gvurrdon@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "thorstenschindler"
<thorstenschindler@> wrote:
> > Thank you for this in-depth information about this. Cannot understand why
they didn´t want your advice, It´d have made the episode even much more
historically correct than it is.
>
> Unfortunately television/film crews are often not interested in what
specialists in the area might have to say, although I'm not sure why this is.
I've seen a lot of bizarre stuff when appearing in productions set in the
Napoleonic era.
> Milo.
>

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "thorstenschindler"
<thorstenschindler@...> wrote:
> Thank you for this in-depth information about this. Cannot understand why they
didn´t want your advice, It´d have made the episode even much more historically
correct than it is.

Unfortunately television/film crews are often not interested in what specialists
in the area might have to say, although I'm not sure why this is. I've seen a
lot of bizarre stuff when appearing in productions set in the Napoleonic era.
Milo.

Thank you for this in-depth information about this. Cannot understand why they
didn´t want your advice, It´d have made the episode even much more historically
correct than it is. But when I saw the scene with "Bill Richmond" in his school
of arms I could see a lot of old boxing moves...

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@...> wrote:
>
> Well I had begged the director to get the boxers to train with me before
> filming started, only one of them did that and that was the guy who
> played Tom Molineaux and in the actual programme he did at least attempt
> to do a couple of authentic blocks. The others declined to train with me
> and I was given about 15 minutes on the day of filming to 'teach' them
> bare knuckle boxing. The actors that played Tom Crib and Tom Molineaux
> were both professional boxers; The Bill Richmond actor was an  ex-boxer
> and the fourth one was an amateur wrestler. Every single piece of
> technical advice I gave to the director was totally ignored. Still,
> that's par for the course:) Most of the 'students' in the boxing school
> scenes (with Bill Richmond teaching) were in fact my students who, when
> the director didn't intervene were demonstrating some period methods
> with fist and stick.
> >
> Despite the director we all managed to have a great time:) and on other
> levels I think the documentary worked quite well.
> >
> Cheers,
> Terry
> >     
> >
> >    Funnily enough I saw this very interesting episode about bare
> >    knuckle boxers Bill Richmond/Tom Molineaux on youtube and noticed
> >    your contribution in it. Have the boxers/actors had your personal
> >    training and advice?
> >
> >    Unfortunately noone is here in my area who´s training in classic
> >    bkb, so I must read through many manuals I suppose.
> >
> >    --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@
> >    ...> wrote:
> >    >
> >    > In message <hecam0+rtoc@>, thorstenschindler
> >    > <thorstenschindler@> writes
> >    > >  
> >    > >
> >    > > Hello Mr. Brown,
> >    > >
> >    > > thank you! I´m honored to be in this group with such renowned
> >    > > people like you to learn about "the sweet since"!
> >    > >
> >    > My pleasure Thorsten. You will find many very knowledgeable
> >    people in
> >    > this group to help you.
> >    > >
> >    > Terry
> >    > --
> >    > Terry Brown
> >    >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Terry Brown
>

Well I had begged the director to get the boxers to train with me before
filming started, only one of them did that and that was the guy who
played Tom Molineaux and in the actual programme he did at least attempt
to do a couple of authentic blocks. The others declined to train with me
and I was given about 15 minutes on the day of filming to 'teach' them
bare knuckle boxing. The actors that played Tom Crib and Tom Molineaux
were both professional boxers; The Bill Richmond actor was an  ex-boxer
and the fourth one was an amateur wrestler. Every single piece of
technical advice I gave to the director was totally ignored. Still,
that's par for the course:) Most of the 'students' in the boxing school
scenes (with Bill Richmond teaching) were in fact my students who, when
the director didn't intervene were demonstrating some period methods
with fist and stick.
>
Despite the director we all managed to have a great time:) and on other
levels I think the documentary worked quite well.
>
Cheers,
Terry
>     
>
>    Funnily enough I saw this very interesting episode about bare
>    knuckle boxers Bill Richmond/Tom Molineaux on youtube and noticed
>    your contribution in it. Have the boxers/actors had your personal
>    training and advice?
>
>    Unfortunately noone is here in my area who´s training in classic
>    bkb, so I must read through many manuals I suppose.
>
>    --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@
>    ...> wrote:
>    >
>    > In message <hecam0+rtoc@...>, thorstenschindler
>    > <thorstenschindler@...> writes
>    > >  
>    > >
>    > > Hello Mr. Brown,
>    > >
>    > > thank you! I´m honored to be in this group with such renowned
>    > > people like you to learn about "the sweet since"!
>    > >
>    > My pleasure Thorsten. You will find many very knowledgeable
>    people in
>    > this group to help you.
>    > >
>    > Terry
>    > --
>    > Terry Brown
>    >
>
>

--
Terry Brown

Funnily enough I saw this very interesting episode about bare knuckle boxers
Bill Richmond/Tom Molineaux on youtube and noticed your contribution in it. Have
the boxers/actors had your personal training and advice?

Unfortunately noone is here in my area who´s training in classic bkb, so I must
read through many manuals I suppose.

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@...> wrote:
>
> In message <hecam0+rtoc@...>, thorstenschindler
> <thorstenschindler@...> writes
> >     
> >
> >    Hello Mr. Brown,
> >
> >    thank you! I´m honored to be in this group with such renowned
> >    people like you to learn about "the sweet since"!
> >
> My pleasure Thorsten. You will find many very knowledgeable people in
> this group to help you.
> >
> Terry
> --
> Terry Brown
>

In message <hecam0+rtoc@eGroups.com>, thorstenschindler
<thorstenschindler@...> writes
>     
>
>    Hello Mr. Brown,
>
>    thank you! I´m honored to be in this group with such renowned
>    people like you to learn about "the sweet since"!
>
My pleasure Thorsten. You will find many very knowledgeable people in
this group to help you.
>
Terry
--
Terry Brown

Hello Mr. Brown,

thank you! I´m honored to be in this group with such renowned people like you to
learn about "the sweet since"!

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Thorsten,
> >
> Welcome to the group.
> >
> Terry
> >     
> >
> >    Hi there,
> >
> >    just wanted to say hello as new member of your group! I´m very
> >    interested in classic pugilism and I hope one or the other could
> >    help me with advice regarding training, technique and advice about
> >    this topic!
> >
> >    Best wishes
> >
> >    Thorsten
> >
> >
>
> --
> Terry Brown
>

Hello Mr. Brown,

thank you! I´m honored to be in this group with such renowned people like you to
learn about "the sweet since"!

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Thorsten,
> >
> Welcome to the group.
> >
> Terry
> >     
> >
> >    Hi there,
> >
> >    just wanted to say hello as new member of your group! I´m very
> >    interested in classic pugilism and I hope one or the other could
> >    help me with advice regarding training, technique and advice about
> >    this topic!
> >
> >    Best wishes
> >
> >    Thorsten
> >
> >
>
> --
> Terry Brown
>

Hello Thorsten,
>
Welcome to the group.
>
Terry
>     
>
>    Hi there,
>
>    just wanted to say hello as new member of your group! I´m very
>    interested in classic pugilism and I hope one or the other could
>    help me with advice regarding training, technique and advice about
>    this topic!
>
>    Best wishes
>
>    Thorsten
>
>

--
Terry Brown

Hi there,

just wanted to say hello as new member of your group! I´m very interested in
classic pugilism and I hope one or the other could help me with advice regarding
training, technique and advice about this topic!

Best wishes

Thorsten

On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 01:55 -0800, Amado Fernandez wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Kirk.  Do you have a website for listing the DVDs you have
> available, and where one could order?

No I don't.  I'm sorta a one-man-shop.  I've got a short list somewhere
that I have emailed.  I'll see if I can find it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Thank you for your review Kirk.  I pretty much expected the book to full of
inaccuracies but you never know.

Hopefully someday, when this recession ends, I can actually scrape together
enough money get your book & the Dempsey video.

Thanks again,

Hugo

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk \"Rabid Weasel\" Lawson"
<lawson@...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 03:17 +0000, HUGO wrote:
> > If I were to pay $$$ for a BKB book I'd start with Kirk Lawson's
> > "Banned from Boxing! The forgotten grappling techniques of historic
> > Pugilism"
>
> Thanks for the vote of confidence.  :-)
>
> Peace favor your sword,
> Kirk
>

I review the book here:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/western-arts/message/24644
I had thought that I cc'ed the classicpugilism list with this one but
I was mistaken.

I do agree, get Banned from Boxing before getting this one for sure!

Ken

On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 03:17 +0000, HUGO wrote:
> If I were to pay $$$ for a BKB book I'd start with Kirk Lawson's
> "Banned from Boxing! The forgotten grappling techniques of historic
> Pugilism"

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  :-)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

---------------------------------------------

Just copied your interview over for discussion (and possibly more sales) to one
of my forums

Rick
Interview with Western Martial Arts Author Kirk Lawson - Banned From Boxing

http://martialarts808.com/Ninjas/index.php/topic,9.msg23.html#msg23

On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 03:17 +0000, HUGO wrote:
> If I were to pay $$$ for a BKB book I'd start with Kirk Lawson's
> "Banned from Boxing! The forgotten grappling techniques of historic
> Pugilism"

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  :-)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Thanks Jason.


On 19 Nov 2009, at 17:24 (19/11), Jason Couch wrote:

> I think Wylde may have been slightly earlier; not exclusively empty
> hand, but  he did have a separate wrestling section IIRC.
>
> Jason Couch
>
>
>
>> 1. Earliest English Source?
>>   Posted by: "James" james@... jmarwood1
>>   Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:33 pm ((PST))
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Am I right in thinking that Parkyns is the earliest English text
>> dealing with empty handed fighting?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

I think Wylde may have been slightly earlier; not exclusively empty
hand, but  he did have a separate wrestling section IIRC.

Jason Couch



> 1. Earliest English Source?
>    Posted by: "James" james@... jmarwood1
>    Date: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:33 pm ((PST))
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Am I right in thinking that Parkyns is the earliest English text
> dealing with empty handed fighting?
>
> Cheers,
>
> James
>
>

Hi guys,

Am I right in thinking that Parkyns is the earliest English text dealing with
empty handed fighting?

Cheers,

James

Anyone see this book?

http://www.amazon.com/BARE-KNUCKLE-BOXERS-COMPANION-Learning-Masters/dp/B0024ZFX\
JM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258427554&sr=1-1

Apparently it's written by two martial artists, David Lindholm and Ulf Tada.

Who are these guys?

If I were to pay $$$ for a BKB book I'd start with Kirk Lawson's "Banned from
Boxing! The forgotten grappling techniques of historic Pugilism", but I'm
wondering who these guys are & if the books decent.

Thanks in advanced,

Hugo

Thanks Chris,

There will be in the next few weeks. I only have access to one decent camera
from a friend and I have problems coordinating the lending of the camera with
partner and cameraman presence, I'm finilasing my last post-grad work for this
session by tuesday, so after that I will also have more time to do it.

I'm as impatient as anyone to make this video, but things never work as they
should :-/.

Maxime Chouinard

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Chris Amendola <chris.amendola@...>
wrote:
>
> Hey Max,
>
> The clip you have found has made it's way around, can't remember where
> I was first introduced to it. The WWI period interests me.
>
> Speaking of some clips...any "swift stick" ones I can look at :)
>
>
> All the Best,
>
> Chris Amendola
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 14, 2009, at 11:20 AM, "emperorsc3" <emperorsc1@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Have you seen the WW1 video I posted? In fact has anyone seen it?
> >
> > Maxime Chouinard
> >
> > --- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Amado Fernandez
> > <grapplefan12000@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I wish there more DVDs put out by the historical pugilism
> > community.  Written manuals are fine to a certain extent, but
> > nothing beats seeing boxing in action to clarify the details and key
> > points.
> > >
> >
> >
>

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, "emperorsc3" <emperorsc1@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Have you seen the WW1 video I posted? In fact has anyone seen it?
>
>

----Did get to see it.  As with a lot of silent films projected on modern
equipment the speed was faster than real life.  But did show that there's
nothing new under the sun; there were techniques identical to some I practice.

 

Have you seen the WW1 video I posted? In fact has anyone seen it?

Maxime Chouinard

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Amado Fernandez <grapplefan12000@...> wrote:
>
> I wish there more DVDs put out by the historical pugilism community.  Written manuals are fine to a certain extent, but nothing beats seeing boxing in action to clarify the details and key points.
>

Have you seen the WW1 video I posted? In fact has anyone seen it?

Maxime Chouinard

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Amado Fernandez <grapplefan12000@...>
wrote:
>
> I wish there more DVDs put out by the historical pugilism community.  Written
manuals are fine to a certain extent, but nothing beats seeing boxing in action
to clarify the details and key points.
>

On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:48 -0800, Amado Fernandez wrote:
>
>
> I wish there more DVDs put out by the historical pugilism community.
> Written manuals are fine to a certain extent, but nothing beats seeing
> boxing in action to clarify the details and key points.

I have seminar footage DVDs covering this topic.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I didn't think of it that way, thank you for the advice.

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@...> wrote:
>
> In message <hdi5kd+6aal@...>, amdaniels89
> <amdaniels89@...> writes
> >     
> >
> >    So I bought Defensive Exercises, Sullivan's maunual, Allanson-Winn'
> >    s Boxing, Edward's Art of Boxing, Swift's Handbook to Boxing, and I
> >    also printed out a copy of Price's Science of Self Defence. Of
> >    these which would be the best for reconstructing Mendoza or an
> >    early LPR style? Also how effective would these styles be for Self
> >    Defense?
> >
> In order to reconstruct Mendoza's style/system you must develop a clear
> understanding of the principles he espouses. These principles are made
> clear in his manual. Once you have understood ALL of his advice and
> principles they can be applied to most bkb styles.
> >
> In other words don't try to copy his style, instead copy his principles;
> It is the latter that will keep you safe and you fights.
> >
> Best wishes,
> Terry
> --
> Terry Brown
>

In message <hdi5kd+6aal@eGroups.com>, amdaniels89
<amdaniels89@...> writes
>     
>
>    So I bought Defensive Exercises, Sullivan's maunual, Allanson-Winn'
>    s Boxing, Edward's Art of Boxing, Swift's Handbook to Boxing, and I
>    also printed out a copy of Price's Science of Self Defence. Of
>    these which would be the best for reconstructing Mendoza or an
>    early LPR style? Also how effective would these styles be for Self
>    Defense?
>
In order to reconstruct Mendoza's style/system you must develop a clear
understanding of the principles he espouses. These principles are made
clear in his manual. Once you have understood ALL of his advice and
principles they can be applied to most bkb styles.
>
In other words don't try to copy his style, instead copy his principles;
It is the latter that will keep you safe and you fights.
>
Best wishes,
Terry
--
Terry Brown

So I bought Defensive Exercises, Sullivan's maunual, Allanson-Winn's Boxing,
Edward's Art of Boxing, Swift's Handbook to Boxing, and I also printed out a
copy of Price's Science of Self Defence. Of these which would be the best for
reconstructing Mendoza or an early LPR style? Also how effective would these
styles be for Self Defense?

--- In classicpugilism@yahoogroups.com, Terry Brown <terrybrown@...> wrote:
>
> >    On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 07:56 +0000, Terry Brown wrote:
> >    > A good number of titles have been republished on lulu, I'm sure
> >    Kirk
> >    > will give you the details; BTW I recommend Kirk's 'Banned from
> >    Boxing'
> >    > as a very good resource.
> >    > >
> >    > Terry
> >
> >     for the plug!
> >
> My pleasure Kirk.
> >
> Terry
> >
> >     my book and a metric boatload of antique, period, boxing manuals
> >     available here:
> >
> >    http://stores.lulu.com/lawson
> >
> >     favor your sword,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Terry Brown
>