The price of registration goes up the end of the week.  Get your
registration in now.  I don't know when we will be holding another
seminar including lectures from the researcher translator John
Michael Greer.  So don't miss this seminar.   It will probably be at
least a couple years before the next one unless someone elsewhere
besides to book us to run an event.  Which will probably elsewhere.
    Destreza: The True Art and Science of the Rapier
    A weekend of study on the Theory and Practice of fencing according
to the work of Gerard Thibault d’Anvers 1628
    Instruction By:
    Matthew Howden
    Jeff Richardson
    John Michael Greer
    Date:  April 4-5, 2009
    Location:   Milwaukie Elks Lodge
    13121 SE Mcloughlin Blvd.     City:
    Portland,  OR    97222
    Tuition:  $50 pre-registered (through March 6); $60 after March 6
    The seminar will include two days of hands on work with the sword
under the instruction of Matthew Howden assisted by Jeff Richardson
and a lecture by translator and researcher John Michael Greer.
    There will be an emphasis on the internal philosophical practices
involved in Thibault’s system and how those practices affect the
practical application of the techniques.
    **Class size is limited.  To ensure your place in class, please
sign up as early as possible.  Pre-registration will open Friday,
February 6, 2009 with tuition due by Friday, March 6, 2009.
Continuing registration will go from March 7 until April 3 or until
all spaces are filled.  The tuition will be higher after the
pre-registration period.
    To sign up, contact jeff at   jeffery at mind dot net
    The Teachers
    Matthew Howden has been studying the rapier since the mid 90’s
and has been studying the works of Gerard Thibault for more than a
decade. Originally beginning his teaching career at the club in
Ashland Oregon, Matthew is a member of the Portland, Oregon chapter
of the Tattershall School of Defence and a senior instructor at
Academia Duellatoria teaching at the studio in Portland, Oregon.
    Jeff Richardson started his fencing career under Olympic Coach
Michael D’Asaro in the late 80’s and received his black belt in
American Open Style Karate from Jerry Piddington in the mid 90’s.
He has been studying the rapier since the early 90’s and is a
senior instructor at Academia Duellatoria in Portland. Jeff sits on
the Board of Directors for the Association of Historical Fencing.
    Jeff and Matthew have been researching Destreza and Thibault for
many years and have consulted with Mr. Greer on the translation
project. They have furthered the research of Destreza in several
capacities including hosting the first seminars on the subject on the
West Coast starting in 2001.  They also assisted with the
instructional video “La Verdadera Destreza, The True Art and Skill
of Spanish Swordsmanship” featuring Anthony Delongis and the
Maestro’s Martinez by helping to supply the still images used in
the video and hosted the book release party, demon and seminar for
Mr. Greer's translation of Girard Thibault in 2006.
    John Michael Greer is a widely published author on esoteric
traditions, published by Llewellyn, Weiser and under his own company
Fir Mountain Press. He has been a student and practitioner of
geomancy and sacred geometry for more than twenty years and is fluent
in Latin and medieval French. Greer has studied geomantic texts and
the art of memory from the Middle Ages and Renaissance. He's a former
member of the Golden Dawn, a Mason, and is the head of the Ancient
Order of Druids in America. He is responsible for the translation of
Gerard Thibault's book on the Mysterious Circle. After a ten year
long process this translation was published by Chivalry Bookshelf in
2006.
    Academia Duellatoria can be found on the web at
    http://duellatoria.com/ [1]
    Review of the Thibault Translation
    This translation was nearly 10 years in the works and eagerly
anticipated by the historical fencing community. John Michael Greer's
understanding of the time period, historical philosophy and language
make this text an excellent resource. The plates from the original
text are recreated in excellent high quality and make this work worth
having all by themselves. These engraved plates were done by a small
army of some the best and most famous engravers in Europe. Sadly many
of the original historical copies of this text have had the lavishly
illustrated plates removed and sold individually at art auctions for
extremely high prices.
    As a scholarly translation of a historical renaissance text this
book is brilliant. As a book of reproductions of renaissance
illustrations it is also brilliant. The illustrations are beautifully
reproduced, and they are incredible in themselves, engaging the reader
as much as the text. The line etchings are a testimate to the art by
some of the best in history and so packed with ornementation and fine
detail to inspire staring at them for hours. As a study for historical
hermetic thought and the art of memory this book is also invaluable.
Added value to this work is that historical fencers are actively
studying this system of rapier and the translator travels with them
to lecture at fencing seminars.
    Thibault discusses philosophy and sacred geometry and then goes on
to show how proportion is the basis for the study of the sword.
Covered in intimate detail is the use of the rapier alone to fence
against an opponent with single rapier, rapier and dagger, rapier and
shield or longsword. In addition possibly for the first time in
history is written down how to use zig zag running to come up on a
man using a musket to fire at the swordsman. Thibaults attention to
detail is refreshing in the efforts to re-learn a dead art as these
details are so often lacking to the martial arts enthusiast.
    Many years in the making the book was published after Thibault
died and before he could write the section on combat from horseback.
    Thibault's text was lauded as the most elaborately and lavishly
illustrated book on fencing ever created. The pictures from the
original are highly sought after by collectors. This text is a must
have.


Links:
------
[1] http://duellatoria.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

The ISMAC schedule is now finalized!  Check it out at
http://artofcombat.org/public/thespis/Convention/demoschedule.htm

You will find 6 main classes offered in each of the four time slot.  When
registering you will just pick four main classes and your done.  It's that easy.



We have also posted the elective classes that will be offered each day.  These
1.5 hour classes are open to all participants and will give you a taste of some
new and exciting material (I mean, where else can you throw a bike at someone
and not get in trouble!)

We are approximately two weeks away from the early registration deadline, so you
can still get over 30 hours of training for only $175 if registered before March
15th.  After that the price will increase by $75. Each main class has limited
enrollment and is on a first come, first serve basis. Some classes are already
over half full!



With 48 classes to choose from, there is something for everyone, so come and
celebrate our 10th anniversary!


Take care,
Jared Kirby

http://www.theismac.org


_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live� Hotmail�:�more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022\
009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Friends,

I just thought I would send out a last minute reminder about the;
Emperor Norton Classical Fencing Challenge, Halberstadt Fencing Club,
San Francisco, CA, March 1, 2009.

The rules we will use can be found on the files section of this list.
  The file is entitled: Classical_Fencing_Tournamaent_Rules_draft_4.doc
Rules to be used at the Classical Fencing Tournament in San Francisco,
March 1, 2009.

Even if you don't go, you might find these rules interesting for your
own use.

Cheers,

Dr. John P. Sullins, Military Master at Arms
Sonoma State University
Botta Secreta Productions

Legends of the Broadsword

The Broadsword League website now has a new look:

http://www.cateransociety.com/broadswordleague.html

The updated version of the site contains a link to our online home at
ning.com. The ning.com site includes the current Rules for Conducting
Challenges, our Ranking System, contact info for all our Regional
Officers, news and updates, top ten lists, videos of challenge
matches, photos, contact info for Broadsword League fencers, and more.
If you are a League fencer and you haven't joined this site yet, you
should do so today!

You can also find a link to the Broadsword League Database, our
complete list of League fencers with contact info, competitive
statistics, style and school info, and match archives, including all
of our challenge matches- more than 500 so far.

And, last but certainly not least, I've taken all of the fascinating
historical anecdotes that were originally part of the Broadsword
League Yearbook and arranged them as an online book called "Legends of
the Broadsword" which you can read for free by going here:

http://www.cateransociety.com/legends.html

Here's a list of the contents to spark your interest:

The Sword-Players- An account of the original stage gladiators or
prizefighters who inspired the Broadsword League.
McBane vs O'Brian: June 23, 1726- McBane's legendary last fight,
including many details not previously available.
The Duel of the O'Connors- A judicial duel to the death between two
Irishmen with magnificent names.
Ronald of the Shield- Dirk and targe versus solo broadsword.
Clergyman with a Claymore- Scotland's version of the "warrior priest!"
"Traitor" Colquhoun- Chivalry only works when both are playing by the
rules...
An Incident at Waterloo- They say the smallsword is more deadly than
the broadsword. Not this time!
The Butchers of Silk Buttons- The broadsword was capable of much more
precision than is often believed.
Two against One- Just like in the movies?
Backsword v Rapier- A satirical poem.
Duel Between Ensign Basil Lee and Lt. Colin Frazer- "The race is not
always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong."
Duel Between Cameron of Errachd and Murshiorlaich- Age and experience
versus youth and anger.
The Broadsword in the New World- The forgotten history of the
broadsword in America.
Stage Gladiators in America- A newspaper prizefight advertisement.
Jaguarina: Queen of the Sword- The "Champion Amazon of the World."
The One Man Army- America's forgotten broadsword hero, Peter Francisco.
Charles Metcalfe MacGregor: A Highland Warrior in Asia.
The Real MacLeod?- Meet Donald MacLeod, the "Gallant Old Highlander."
One of the greatest swordsmen who ever lived, or the Highland Baron
Munchausen?

On Feb 21, 2009, at 12:22 AM, John Trojanowski wrote:

> I don't know what (if any) of this may be of interest here, but...

Very interesting stuff, John. Thanks for posting it, and letting
people know.


>
> 2.) 1930 Nedo Nadi Visits NYAC:
> "Raw, unedited footage of a visit by Nedo Nadi to New York Athletic
> Club
> on 31 January 1930. Cameras in this era were static so each shot
> lingers
> on one thing, then you see extensive shots of another aspect of the
> same
> event. Why the most accomplished fencer of that era was matched with a
> clumsy hippopotamus is beyond me, however."

Bizarre, isn't it?  His opponent is... fascinating.  Makes me wonder.

>
> 3.)1934 Aldo NAdi at Salle LaCaze:
> "5 VERY short scenes from 25 April 1934 at Sall LaCaze, Paris:
> young men
> salute and come en garde with foil-and-dagger; class drills with
> pairs;
> Aldo Nadi instructing a fencer in foil (rapier) & dagger; more of the
> paired drills; final rapier/dagger drill with Nadi."


This is a real mix.  Some great stuff, some not so good... as it
likely is in most any class or place.




thanks again


Linda

I don't know what (if any) of this may be of interest here, but...

Today I posted 5 video clips of different lengths to my YouTube page:
YouTube: Schlager7 <http://www.youtube.com/user/schlager7>   The last
two were offered by another to folks on this email list some years back.
I don't know how many will have already seen the first two.

1.) 1926 US/UK Military Fencing Exhibition:
"Raw, unedited silent newsreel footage of a military fencing exhibition
between US and UK fencers. Lt. Harold Van Buskirk fencing Maj. G. V.
Dyer of British team. Closeup of Van Buskirk demonstrating sabre guards.
Dyer congratulates Americans. Close up of Anthony Lyon."

2.) 1930 Nedo Nadi Visits NYAC:
"Raw, unedited footage of a visit by Nedo Nadi to New York Athletic Club
on 31 January 1930. Cameras in this era were static so each shot lingers
on one thing, then you see extensive shots of another aspect of the same
event. Why the most accomplished fencer of that era was matched with a
clumsy hippopotamus is beyond me, however."

3.)1934 Aldo NAdi at Salle LaCaze:
"5 VERY short scenes from 25 April 1934 at Sall LaCaze, Paris: young men
salute and come en garde with foil-and-dagger; class drills with pairs;
Aldo Nadi instructing a fencer in foil (rapier) & dagger; more of the
paired drills; final rapier/dagger drill with Nadi."

4.) 1938 Epee Duel France:
"A newsreel clip of a duel with duelling epees in France, 1938. Looks
like they tried pretty hard to keep the cameras behind a wall or up a
tree until it was over."

5.) 1958 Epee Duel France:
"Newsreel footage of the famous epee duel between Serge Lifar and
Marquis de Cuevas, with all the usual inane blather by the announcer
that you would expect of the era."


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is a resend - apologies if you already have read this:

David,

Great to hear from you!  I hope things are going well.

Some brief answers:
1) Some of the blades from TCA/ZWA are ok.  I have a 40inch muskateer
blade laying around unused.  It is very rigid with very little give in
the foible.  Personally I don't care for much of their other stock.
The problem with the parts Denny designed for them is that they had
them cast in stainless steel.  Why I don't know.  They was some other
quirk, but I forget now what that was...

2) I have a few of the Chev foil blades and they are great.  Wish they
came in many lengths.  I do not have any experience with their other
offerings - but if the foil blades are any example of quality I would
expect them to be very good.

3) For rapier blades my favourite now are made by Darkwood Armory.

4) For all other weapon needs I just go to Denny Graves.  I just spoke
with him a few minutes ago and know he'd be happy to talk with you
about any project you have in mind.

Wish we could fence with one another again soon.  Good luck and drop
me a line sometime!

Dave Achilleus

Hello,

Just a quick reminder that if you haven't taken care of your ISMAC registration,
now is the time to do it.  Registrations received before Feb 23rd will help
determine the final schedule. You can make ISMAC exactly what you want!  After
Feb. 23rd I will finalize the schedule which will be posted at the beginning of
March.

Take care,
Jared Kirby
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your
life.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/

------ Original Message ------
Received: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 01:25:27 AM EST
From: James Koch <alchem@...>
To: <classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [CFML] RE: Hi Folks - question about currently available
equipment

> David,
>  >
> We manufacture a colichemarde blade in a 36 inch length which can be
> shortened down to 30 inches.  I wouldn't go any shorter than that
> though.  We can shorten our flat tang blades down to 28 inches, but
> those wont fit in our current small sword hilts.  So it either go
> with the 30 inch blade or wait for us to manufacture a batch of custom
hilts.
>  >
> Jim Koch, Alchem Inc. "http://www.alcheminc.com"
>  >
>  >
>  > At 08:53 PM 2/8/2009, David Laloum wrote:
>
> >Hi Folks
> >
> >I have a small group here in Melbourne who are keen to begin working
> >on Rapier &/or Smallsword.. (they are currently learning CF weapons)
> >
> >Having been away from the marketplace for a while I thought I would
> >ask people what they are using, what is currently available and what
> >people recommend...
> >
> >Specifically:
> >
> >RAPIER:
> >
> >My requirements vary from 35" to 42" depending on the fencer....
> >preference is for triangular (epee style) blades to ensure proper
> >point control, looking for enough flex to make them safe, handling
> >properties that are authentic, and no wobbly points...
> >
> >Zen Warrior Armory (ZWA) has their musketeer blades - with Dennis
> >Graves designed hilts no less - this is currently top of my list -
> >mostly due to previous experience with Dennis Graves designs/work -
> >has anyone used these? (also what are their flexidagger blades like?
> >And their Main Gauche?)
> >
> >Word is that Fulvio DelTin is about to produce another batch of
> >FISAS Rapier blades - What guard/hilt/mountings would this work with?
> >
> >I've taken a look at Chevalier D'Auvergne - much of their stuff
> >looks very very similar to the ZWA gear - does anyone know whether
> >ZWA are sourcing their gear from CD'A ?
> >
> >SMALLSWORD:
> >So far the best I can find in the way of blades are Size 0
> >(30")Epee.... are there any other options? - Does anyone make a 28" blade?
> >What do people recommend in the way of hilts/components - again my
> >previous experience with Dennis Graves products leads me to look
> >closely at the ZWA Dennis Graves Smallsword. - Has anyone tried these?
> >What are people using and how do they find them in handling and wear
terms?
> >
> >Hope the forum can help
> >
> >Thanks & bye for now
> >
> >David Laloum
> >

Short epee blades are children's blades. The No. 0 blade (30 inches) is
considered too weak for use by adults: experience says it will break. Those
who use a short epee blade for smallsword usually use the No. 2 epee blade (32
inches). This has proved to be strong enough.

Alternatively, Zen Warrier now stocks their rapier blades in 30 inch length.
Zen warrier is very widely used in Atlantia [Mid-Atlantic states of the US],
and has generally proved acceptable. Alternatively, Darkwood Armory
http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/store/   also provides blades that have wide
acceptance in Atlantia, and are considered very high quality. However, they do
not list 30 inch blades in their catalog, so you will have to contact them on
what is available.

This region of SCA is phasing out epee blades, except for practice, so I have
not seen Zen Warrior's 32 inch musketeer blade in use.

David,
  >
We manufacture a colichemarde blade in a 36 inch length which can be
shortened down to 30 inches.  I wouldn't go any shorter than that
though.  We can shorten our flat tang blades down to 28 inches, but
those wont fit in our current small sword hilts.  So it either go
with the 30 inch blade or wait for us to manufacture a batch of custom hilts.
  >
Jim Koch, Alchem Inc. "http://www.alcheminc.com"
  >
  >
  > At 08:53 PM 2/8/2009, David Laloum wrote:

>Hi Folks
>
>I have a small group here in Melbourne who are keen to begin working
>on Rapier &/or Smallsword.. (they are currently learning CF weapons)
>
>Having been away from the marketplace for a while I thought I would
>ask people what they are using, what is currently available and what
>people recommend...
>
>Specifically:
>
>RAPIER:
>
>My requirements vary from 35" to 42" depending on the fencer....
>preference is for triangular (epee style) blades to ensure proper
>point control, looking for enough flex to make them safe, handling
>properties that are authentic, and no wobbly points...
>
>Zen Warrior Armory (ZWA) has their musketeer blades - with Dennis
>Graves designed hilts no less - this is currently top of my list -
>mostly due to previous experience with Dennis Graves designs/work -
>has anyone used these? (also what are their flexidagger blades like?
>And their Main Gauche?)
>
>Word is that Fulvio DelTin is about to produce another batch of
>FISAS Rapier blades - What guard/hilt/mountings would this work with?
>
>I've taken a look at Chevalier D'Auvergne - much of their stuff
>looks very very similar to the ZWA gear - does anyone know whether
>ZWA are sourcing their gear from CD'A ?
>
>SMALLSWORD:
>So far the best I can find in the way of blades are Size 0
>(30")Epee.... are there any other options? - Does anyone make a 28" blade?
>What do people recommend in the way of hilts/components - again my
>previous experience with Dennis Graves products leads me to look
>closely at the ZWA Dennis Graves Smallsword. - Has anyone tried these?
>What are people using and how do they find them in handling and wear terms?
>
>Hope the forum can help
>
>Thanks & bye for now
>
>David Laloum
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Folks

I have a small group here in Melbourne who are keen to begin working on Rapier
&/or Smallsword.. (they are currently learning CF weapons)

Having been away from the marketplace for a while I thought I would ask people
what they are using, what is currently available and what people recommend...

Specifically:

RAPIER:

My requirements vary from 35" to 42" depending on the fencer.... preference is
for triangular (epee style) blades to ensure proper point control, looking for
enough flex to make them safe, handling properties that are authentic, and no
wobbly points...

Zen Warrior Armory (ZWA) has their musketeer blades - with Dennis Graves
designed hilts no less - this is currently top of my list - mostly due to
previous experience with Dennis Graves designs/work - has anyone used these?
(also what are their flexidagger blades like? And their Main Gauche?)

Word is that Fulvio DelTin is about to produce another batch of FISAS Rapier
blades - What guard/hilt/mountings would this work with?

I've taken a look at Chevalier D'Auvergne - much of their stuff looks very very
similar to the ZWA gear - does anyone know whether ZWA are sourcing their gear
from CD'A ?

SMALLSWORD:
So far the best I can find in the way of blades are Size 0 (30")Epee.... are
there any other options? - Does anyone make a 28" blade?
What do people recommend in the way of hilts/components - again my previous
experience with Dennis Graves products leads me to look closely at the ZWA
Dennis Graves Smallsword. - Has anyone tried these?
What are people using and how do they find them in handling and wear terms?


Hope the forum can help

Thanks & bye for now

David Laloum


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Destreza: The True Art and Science of the Rapier

A weekend of study on the Theory and Practice of fencing according to
the work of Gerard Thibault d'Anvers 1628



Instruction By:

Matthew Howden

Jeff Richardson

John Michael Greer



Date: April 4-5, 2009

Location: Milwaukie Elks Lodge

13121 SE Mcloughlin Blvd.

Portland, OR 97222

Tuition: $50 pre-registered (through March 6); $60 after March 6


The seminar will include two days of hands on work with the sword
under the instruction of Matthew Howden assisted by Jeff Richardson
and a lecture by translator and researcher John Michael Greer.

There will be an emphasis on the internal philosophical practices
involved in Thibault's system and how those practices affect the
practical application of the techniques. In addition on day two we
will take a look at some of Thibault's applications of the rapier
against sword and dagger and against the longsword.

**Class size is limited. To ensure your place in class, please sign
up as early as possible. Pre-registration will open Friday, February
6, 2009 with tuition due by Friday, March 6, 2009. Continuing
registration will go from March 7 until April 3 or until all spaces
are filled. The tuition will be higher after the pre-registration period.



To sign up, contact jeff at jeffery at mind dot net


The Teachers

Matthew Howden has been studying the rapier since the mid 90's and has
been studying the works of Gerard Thibault for more than a decade.
Originally beginning his teaching career at the club in Ashland
Oregon, Matthew is a member of the Portland, Oregon chapter of the
Tattershall School of Defence and a senior instructor at Academia
Duellatoria teaching at the studio in Portland, Oregon.

Jeff Richardson started his fencing career under Olympic Coach Michael
D'Asaro in the late 80's and received his black belt in American Open
Style Karate from Jerry Piddington in the mid 90's. He has been
studying the rapier since the early 90's and is a senior instructor at
Academia Duellatoria in Portland. Jeff sits on the Board of Directors
for the Association of Historical Fencing.

Jeff and Matthew have been researching Destreza and Thibault for many
years and have consulted with Mr. Greer on the translation project.
They have furthered the research of Destreza in several capacities
including hosting the first seminars on the subject on the West Coast
starting in 2001. They also assisted with the instructional video "La
Verdadera Destreza, The True Art and Skill of Spanish Swordsmanship"
featuring Anthony Delongis and the Maestro's Martinez by helping to
supply the still images used in the video and hosted the book release
party, demon and seminar for Mr. Greer's translation of Girard
Thibault in 2006.

John Michael Greer is a widely published author on esoteric
traditions, published by Llewellyn, Weiser and under his own company
Fir Mountain Press. He has been a student and practitioner of geomancy
and sacred geometry for more than twenty years and is fluent in Latin
and medieval French. Greer has studied geomantic texts and the art of
memory from the Middle Ages and Renaissance. He's a former member of
the Golden Dawn, a Mason, and is the head of the Ancient Order of
Druids in America. He is responsible for the translation of Gerard
Thibault's book on the Mysterious Circle. After a ten year long
process this translation was published by Chivalry Bookshelf in 2006.

Academia Duellatoria can be found on the web at
http://duellatoria.com/

Hello,Believe it or not, ISMAC is a little over 3 months away.  It�s coming up
quick and there are a few deadlines approaching.
There are only a few more weeks for you to help decide the main classes this
year!  Registrations received before Feb 23rd will help determine the final
schedule.  Of course, if everyone signs up for the same classes then the
remaining schedule will be decided as it has in past years.  I encourage you to
take this opportunity to pick classes and make ISMAC exactly what you want
because after Feb 23rd this option will be gone.
I am confident that everyone will get the classes they want, but someone did ask
what happens if your first and second choices are not part of the final
schedule.  There is no risk in registering before Feb 23rd and making your voice
heard.  We will be happy to refund your registration fee after the final
schedule is posted if there are no classes you want to take.
For those that want to wait until the schedule is finalized, here is the plan. 
At the end of Feb. I will finalize the schedule.  We will get it posted at the
beginning of March, so you will know exactly what classes will be offered this
year!  This will be done before the pre-registration deadline of March 15th.
Register before March 15th and you�ll pay only $175.  After that the fee goes up
$75.  Please also remember that class sizes are limited to approximately 20
participants.  We have always found that smaller classes can cover more material
and everyone gets much more out of them.  When a class is full we will close it.
Pre-registration means you get to help choose the final schedule and ensures
that you get a spot in the classes of your choosing.
If you have any questions, comments or concerns please feel to contact me at
jaredkirby@...  Looking forward to seeing you at our 10th anniversary!
Take care,
Jared Kirby
www.theismac.org
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live�: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Everyone!
I had the fortune of joining this group several months ago, but unfortunately
was unable to post due to medical circumstances beyond my control. I am a
practicing martial artist (both Eastern and Western) working with my fiancee in
Texas, and am considering learning both French Smallsword and Spanish Destreza.
Currently I study stick fighting (Irish and other), German Longsword, and
Taijiquan. I look forward to expanding my knowledge and appreciation of fencing,
especially regarding the classical erra, and hope to participate in many
interesting discussions in the future.

Best Regards,
William

------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 09:12:54 PM EST
From: <jphill32@...>
To: David Chessler <chessler@...>, Skyfyre Wvryn <draygonlaird@...>,
	 classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CFML] New to the list

> Hi,
>
> Welcome, sometimes we don't have a lot of chatting, but it is there as a
resource.
>
> tell us about your fencing.
>
> sincerely,
>
> joe d phillips
> salle de chevaliers martial fencers
> columbus, ohio
> ---- David Chessler <chessler@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ------ Original Message ------
> > Received: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:27:23 PM EST
> > From: "Skyfyre Wvryn" <draygonlaird@...>
> > To: classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [CFML] New to the list
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > My name is Skyfyre. I will most likely not post anything after this
> > > introduction, as I know VERY little about fencing firsthand other than
> > > what I learned from an introductory course at a local school, offered
> > > about 10 years ago. The only reason I haven't gotten totally immersed
in
> > > the art is due to health problems, but I am happy to say that will be
> > > changing in a few months.
> > >
> > >
> > >                               May Peace Favor Your Sword,
> > >                                             Skyfyre
> >
> > Start doing a bit of reading so you know something of the different
styles,
> > and see if you can locate a practice group within reasonable driving
distance.
> > There may be some sports you can learn from books, but fencing isn't one
of
> > them. The books  or articles or websites will give you some idea of what
each
> > style is about. And maybe an idea of cost.
> >

I fence rapier with the SCA, mostly single sword and buckler (square targe).
Generally italian school following Di Grassi or SCA modern (see below). I also
do epee, but not very often (that is, epee blade in a rapier hilt). I also use
sticks, canes, daggers, and capes as parry devices. I am looking for a good
3-prong candlestick in a thrift shop. I don't do case (florintine) at this
point.

In this area (Wash DC) there is a lot of interest in Fabris, (Tom Leoni lives
and teaches in the area). Also some people follow Capoferre.

There is also a lot of longsword using blunts, in the German school, but that
isn't SCA. And some people are using smallsword (late 17th C through early
19th C).

I'm not aware of anyone in the area using sharps, even against a pell.

But for general SCA-type rapier (rules similar to Epee fencing, except the
kill zone [head and body] distinguished from hands, arms, and legs.)

I am far too old and started far too late to be good, although I can score
points and parry. And the cute young things, young enough to be my
granddaughters, are nice and polite.

Hi,

Welcome, sometimes we don't have a lot of chatting, but it is there as a
resource.

tell us about your fencing.

sincerely,

joe d phillips
salle de chevaliers martial fencers
columbus, ohio
---- David Chessler <chessler@...> wrote:
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> Received: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:27:23 PM EST
> From: "Skyfyre Wvryn" <draygonlaird@...>
> To: classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [CFML] New to the list
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > My name is Skyfyre. I will most likely not post anything after this
> > introduction, as I know VERY little about fencing firsthand other than
> > what I learned from an introductory course at a local school, offered
> > about 10 years ago. The only reason I haven't gotten totally immersed in
> > the art is due to health problems, but I am happy to say that will be
> > changing in a few months.
> >
> >
> >                               May Peace Favor Your Sword,
> >                                             Skyfyre
>
> Start doing a bit of reading so you know something of the different styles,
> and see if you can locate a practice group within reasonable driving distance.
> There may be some sports you can learn from books, but fencing isn't one of
> them. The books  or articles or websites will give you some idea of what each
> style is about. And maybe an idea of cost.
>
> --
>
> YIS
>
> Davitt il Bigollo da Pisa
> Erudit de l'Academie de Espee de Atlantia
> Storvik (rapier)
> Roxbury Mill (other things)
>
>

------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:27:23 PM EST
From: "Skyfyre Wvryn" <draygonlaird@...>
To: classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CFML] New to the list

> Hello,
>
> My name is Skyfyre. I will most likely not post anything after this
> introduction, as I know VERY little about fencing firsthand other than
> what I learned from an introductory course at a local school, offered
> about 10 years ago. The only reason I haven't gotten totally immersed in
> the art is due to health problems, but I am happy to say that will be
> changing in a few months.
>
>
>                               May Peace Favor Your Sword,
>                                             Skyfyre

Start doing a bit of reading so you know something of the different styles,
and see if you can locate a practice group within reasonable driving distance.
There may be some sports you can learn from books, but fencing isn't one of
them. The books  or articles or websites will give you some idea of what each
style is about. And maybe an idea of cost.

--

YIS

Davitt il Bigollo da Pisa
Erudit de l'Academie de Espee de Atlantia
Storvik (rapier)
Roxbury Mill (other things)

Hello,

My name is Skyfyre. I will most likely not post anything after this
introduction, as I know VERY little about fencing firsthand other than
what I learned from an introductory course at a local school, offered
about 10 years ago. The only reason I haven't gotten totally immersed in
the art is due to health problems, but I am happy to say that will be
changing in a few months.


                               May Peace Favor Your Sword,
                                             Skyfyre



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Broadsword League Championships 2008 and Rule Revisions for 2009

Announcing the official results of the Broadsword League Championships
for 2008.

The winner of the "Gormon" (which is awarded to the fencer with the
highest point average who has fought at least twenty bouts for the
year) is Christopher Scott Thompson of the Cateran Society Broadsword
Academy in Portland, ME, USA, with an average of 24.15 in 20 bouts.

The winner of the "McBane" (which is awarded to the fencer with the
highest point average who has fought at least five bouts for the year
but less than twenty) is Dirk Wolfram Neumann of the Glamorgan School
of Arms in Swansea, Wales, with an average of 26.25 in 8 bouts.

There were other fencers with very good fighting averages, who might
have won one of the international championships but were unable to
because they didn't fight enough bouts in 2008. Thomas Arthur Jones, a
Military Saber fencer from Lampeter, Wales, earned a 29-point average
in 2 bouts. Jeremy Oneail, the McBane Champion for 2007, earned a
24.57 average in 7 bouts. While Jeremy fought enough bouts to qualify
for the McBane, he lost this year to Dirk Wolfram Neumann. However, if
he had been able to maintain the same average over twenty or more
bouts, he would have won the Gormon. James Black of the Cateran
Society Broadsword Academy earned a 24.46 average in 15 bouts. If
James had been able to maintain the same average through just five
more bouts, he also might have won the Gormon.

In light of these facts, I have made some revisions to the rules for
2009, to remove some of the barriers that may have prevented some
Broadsword League fencers from fighting more often. Effective
immediately, fencers may now fight each other as often as once per
week. Also, if no seconds are available (a common problem in smaller
schools) it is now acceptable to fence your bout on the "honor
system." Please see the revised rules for more details.

The Broadsword League has a number of members with a background in
classical styles of heavy saber. The standard set of Broadsword League
rules is very different from a classical saber match, mandating an
entirely different mindset and approach to the bout. However, our
rules have always allowed for a high degree of flexibility and
customization as well. I have decided to add a new type of optional
bout, the "Five-Touch" match, which allows fencers to use a more
traditional five-touch format while still earning points within the
Broadsword League system. Again, please see the revised rules for more
details.

One advantage of the optional Five-Touch bout format is that the bouts
are more exciting for spectators than bouts fought according to the
standard rules. An advantage to the standard rules, however, is that
they mandate a very cautious approach similar to what one might expect
to see in an encounter with sharps. Fencers in the Broadsword League
will now have the option of deciding which of the two approaches they
find most appealing on any given day. The revised rules have been
extensively fight-tested in unofficial matches for the past several
months, and I am confident that they will work.

Here are the complete rules as of February, 2009:

The Broadsword League
Broadsword, Backsword, Heavy Sabre and Singlestick

Rules for Conducting Challenges
(Revised February 2009)

Our goal is to use a rule system that is as simple and flexible as
possible, to avoid bureaucracy and gamesmanship and maintain a martial
spirit in our competitions.

1- All bouts are to be conducted in the spirit of an encounter with
sharps, and the rules are not to be construed in such a way as to
permit techniques that would not be possible in a fight with sharps.
Manipulating the rules is specifically forbidden, and grounds for the
match to be voided and a complaint to be filed with the League.
2- When a challenge has been given and accepted, the Broadsword League
is to be informed of the date, time and place of the match, as well as
the names and current rankings of the two principals, and the names of
their seconds. No two members of the League may fight more than one
official bout with each other per calendar week.
3- Each fencer is to bring one second to the match. The job of the
seconds is to witness the match and verify the score. This requirement
may be waived by mutual agreement if there are no seconds available,
but only if the fencers agree to accept full responsibility for both
the safety of the match and the results. This is called an "honor
system" bout. In the event of any disagreement or dispute in an honor
system bout, the match is to be considered void.
4- Fencers are to wear a minimum of a three-weapon mask, glove and
jacket as protection during the bout. They may fence with any blunt
broadsword or backsword, wooden, aluminum or otherwise appropriate
waster, modified shinai or singlestick, but their weapons must be of
the same type. Whatever type of weapon is used, the fencers must wear
sufficient safety gear to avoid injury. The seconds must prevent the
match if, in their judgment, the safety gear is insufficient.
5- Either second may stop the match at any time, either before or
during the bout. If a second feels that the fencers are not fencing
safely for any reason, it is his responsibility to call "halt." Once
the safety issue has been addressed, the bout may resume. If a throw
or fall occurs for any reason, or if a mask is knocked off, the bout
is halted and the fencers are to return to the starting point, salute,
and resume the bout. This rule applies no matter which type of bout is
being fought. Seconds may also call a halt to inquire if their own or
the opposing fencer was touched, however the judgement of the fencer
in question is to be accepted except in egregious cases. If either
second feels that the opposing fencer did not call touches accurately
or otherwise observe the rules, the match is voided.
6- The fencers, through their seconds, must determine the type of bout
to be fought. The following points must be determined: 1)- Will
thrusts be allowed, or only cuts? 2)- Will the action of the bout stop
on a touch? If the fencers agree to stop on a touch, the fencers are
to re-center and resume the bout after the halt. 3)- Will grips be
allowed? If grips are allowed, the fencers may grip each other in
order to get a touch or a disarm, and may grip the opposing blade if
they can do so in such a way that it would not cut them if the blades
were sharp. If grips are allowed, the seconds are to call a halt and
re-center the fencers if they get caught up in an extended clinch. In
this type of bout, a disarm or a throw is to be counted as a touch. If
grips are allowed, the action must stop on a touch. 4)- The fencers
must determine whether the match shall be fought in an open area, on a
fencing strip, or in a circle of any convenient size. If the bout is
fought in a circle, stepping outside the circle with either foot is
counted as a touch against.
7- The bout will begin after both fencers have saluted. A valid touch,
anywhere on the body, must be acknowledged by the fencer who has been
touched, and noted by his second. Each second has the responsibility
of recording the touches against his own principal.
8- A valid touch is defined as a touch that, in the judgement of the
affected fencer, would have drawn blood on him if the weapons had been
sharp. Flat or grazing touches that would not have drawn blood are not
counted, but should be acknowledged with the words "flat" or "light."
9- Bouts will continue for five minutes. At the end of the bout, the
Broadsword League is to be informed of the results, along with the
contact information for both principals and both seconds so the
results may be confirmed. The ratings of the two fencers will be
adjusted by the League according to the following method: The seconds
record and report the number of touches against each fencer. Each
fencer receives 25 points for participating in the bout, minus one
point for every touch scored against him, plus � point for every touch
scored against his opponent. � points are rounded down from the final
score, and negative final scores are adjusted to zero points. Example:
Fencer X and Fencer Y have a broadsword bout. Fencer X is touched 10
times and Fencer Y is touched 13 times. Fencer X receives 25 points
for fencing, minus 10 points for the ten touches against him, plus 6
points for the touches he scored against Fencer Y. He receives a total
of 21 points, to be added to his official ratings. Fencer Y receives
25 points for fencing, minus 13 points for the thirteen touches
against him, plus 5 points for the touches he scored against Fencer X.
He receives a total of 17 points, to be added to his official ratings.
10- The following types of special bout may be fought by agreement.
Both types of special bout may also be combined into one. 1)-
Off-Hand: Each fencer may choose a second weapon to use in his
off-hand, such as a target, buckler, dagger or second sword. The
off-hand weapons used by the fencers need not be identical. The
seconds are not to allow the use of any unhistorical off-hand weapon.
2)-  Five-Touch: This bout is scored differently than a standard
Broadsword League bout, and is intended to allow for classical heavy
saber matches within the Broadsword League framework. In this type of
bout, the default rule is that double touches are to be disregarded.
However, the fencers may voluntarily agree to fence the bout according
to any mutually acceptable set of classical saber conventions. The
fencer who first receives five touches has lost the bout. In a
five-touch bout, Broadsword League points are earned according to a
special scale. If the score is 5-0, the winner earns 26 points and the
loser 16. If the score is 5-1, the winner earns 25 points and the
loser 17. If the score is 5-2, the winner earns 24 points and the
loser 18. If the score is 5-3, the winner earns 23 points and the
loser 19. If the score is 5-4, the winner earns 22 points and the
loser 20.

International, National and Regional Championships

	 Note: In the first year of the League's existence, the international
championships were awarded on a different basis than what is described
below. The Gormon was awarded to whoever earned the most points for
the year, and the McBane to the holder of the best overall average.
The rules described below went into effect on January 1, 2008.

	 To claim any Regional Championship title, you must have fought at
least five bouts in that region, and you must have the highest average
of points earned per bout of any fencer in that region for the
previous year. The region in question can be a city, state, province
or any other division of territory.
	 For instance, if you are a Broadsword League member in New York City,
and you have fought at least five bouts in the city since you joined
the League, and your average for 2007 was the highest of any League
member in New York, then you can describe yourself as the Broadsword
League Champion of New York City for 2007.
	 The same principle applies to National Championships, except that you
must have fought at least ten bouts in a particular nation in order to
claim to be its champion.
	 Regional and National Championships are not actually awarded by the
League- they are simply claimed, under the conditions described above,
by whichever swordsman can earn the title.
	 The Broadsword League awards three International trophies, along with
the title of "Broadsword Champion." These trophies are the Gormon, the
McBane and the Figg. These three championships are named after great
Stage Gladiators of the 18th century.
	 The Gormon is awarded at the end of each year to the fencer with the
best year-to-date average who has fought at least 20 Broadsword League
bouts for the year. The McBane is awarded at the end of each year to
the fencer with the best year-to-date average who has fought at least
5 but less than 20 Broadsword League bouts for the year.
	 If the winner of the Gormon and the winner of the McBane agree to
meet for a challenge match, the fencer who earns the most points in
that match will be awarded the Figg, as well as the title of
"Broadsword League Grand Champion."

Hi all,

in my research I came across a smallsword glossary some years ago.
I've finally made it available online for your fencing pleasure.

http://youngblood.co.uk/wordpress/?p=22

Kind Engardes

Tim Klotz

The Association for Historical Fencing and Palm Beach Classical
Fencing are pleased to invite you to attend a classical foil
tournament in West Palm Beach, FL on Saturday, March 28th, 2009.

This is a great opportunity for you to experience the spirit of
classical fencing, either as a fencer or as a spectator. Spectators
are welcome free of charge. If you plan on competing, please read our
rules carefully. In either case we hope to see you there!

WHEN:
          Saturday, March 28th, 2009
          9:00 am - 4:00 pm

WHERE:
          National Croquet Center
          700 Florida Mango Rd (just south of Summit Blvd)
          West Palm Beach, FL

For more details, including rules and registration forms, please visit
www.ahfi.org. If you have questions please email Kim Moser at
kmoser@... or call 561-630-3688.

--
Kim Moser, Webmaster
Association for Historical Fencing
web: http://www.ahfi.org
email: webmaster@...

Hi everyone,
It looks like my new book is officially available from Paladin Press!
Here's the blurb:

HIGHLAND MARTIAL CULTURE
The Fighting Heritage of Scotland
by Christopher Scott Thompson

NEW!  The revival of interest in historical Western martial arts has
focused a great deal of attention on the weapons of Scotland,
especially of the Highlanders. Yet, despite all this enthusiasm for
the martial arts of the Highland, few of those practicing have
experienced genuine Gaelic culture � and without a cultural context,
no practice of martial arts can be considered complete.

Highland Martial Culture examines the nature of the Gaelic warrior
class and its martial training; the Gaelic duel and how it differed
from the duel in continental Europe; the phenomenon of wandering
swordsmen in Highland society; the Highland conception of honor;
internal aspects of martial arts practice such as mental tricks,
traditional charms and spells used in warfare; unusual skills such as
the fast draw; and health practices associated with the warrior class.

This is your chance to find out more about the rich cultural heritage
associated with the practice of Highland weapons.

http://www.paladin-press.com/product/1056/47

Author interview:

http://www.paladin-press.com/downloads/Christopher_Thompson_QA.pdf

-Chris Thompson

Botta Secreta Productions Proudly Presents
The Emperor Norton Challenge:

A Classical Three Weapon Tournament

MARCH 1, 2009
11:00 AM
Halberstadt
Fencing Club
San Francisco CA

Registration is $25.00

Three preliminary rounds - one round for each weapon

Embrace the nostalgia!

Come and join us!

Participate in a STANDARD three-weapon tournament format, that's
kind of like the old days but with a twist.

Traditional French and Italian Grips only.  Figure eight guards and
Italian guards with crossbars that extend past the bell are allowed.

The floor will be presided over by Military Master at Arms, John ullins,
Provost, David Charles (USFCA), and
Lakan Tatlo, Thomas Badillo (IPMAF) as Bout Committee

For more information the Tournament Committee can be reached at
bottasecretaproductions@...
<mailto:bottasecretaproductions@...>





With best regards from San Francisco,

Thomas Badillo
Project Manager
Botta Secreta Productions

http://bottasecretaproductions.ning.com/
<http://bottasecretaproductions.ning.com/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For sale

Smallsword $150
brass hilted with wooden handle
with a #2 epee. brass casting is from Orginal 18th century sword


18th century Baskethilted singlesticks $35
Not leather but wicker basket
with 1" x 36" Ash sticks

will send pictures email me at fencer1775ATaimDOTcom

Our group, HMSS NOVA, meets every Saturday in Leesburg, Virginia
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HMSSNoVa/).

David Chessler <chessler@...> wrote:                             Not sure
who's active over the holidays. Some groups meet in schools and so
  have had to take a vacation.

  That said, there is a lot of rapier activity in this area. This includes SCA
  rapier (or epee), and some more historic styles. There are also some longsword
  groups (mostly German).

  I do rapier in College Park, MD with SCA Storvik. Monday nights at 7. and
  meets next Monday.
  http://storvik.atlantia.sca.org/

  Other SCA rapier fencing groups meeting other days include Columbia MD
  (Lochmere) or Falls Church VA (Ponte Alto). With a bit more driving (check
  "neighboring groups" on any SCA website you can find a rapier practice about 6
  days a week.
  http://lochmere.atlantia.sca.org/
  http://pontealto.atlantia.sca.org/

  The Mid-Atlantic Society for Historic Swordsmanship does a variety of
  classical styles of Bolognese Rapier and German Longsword in Annapolis and
  Brooklyn Park MD
  http://www.mashs.org/
  many of the members may be found on the following list
  http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalMartialStudySociety/

  One local SCA group does both SCA-type and classical rapier:
  http://www.stierbach.org/calendar/calendar.php

  There is also an advanced group that does classical fencing twice a month at
  Glen Echo park in Maryland. I've misplaced my contact information.
  http://www.glenechopark.org/index.htm
  http://www.nps.gov/glec/

  If, by classical fencing, you mean non-electric Olympic-style fencing you
  might try the Virginia Academy of Fencing
  http://www.vafinc.com/

  ------ Original Message ------
  Received: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 07:46:40 PM EST
  From: "odzadoro2001" <jnirenberg@...>
  To: classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [CFML] classical fencing in Washington, DC area

  > Could anyone direct me to a group in Washington, DC or the surrounding
  > area?
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > ----------------------------------------------------------
  > The CFML is sponsored in part by Twin Arms Fencing, featuring custom
  > Italian foils. www.twinarmsfencing.com
  > ----------------------------------------------------------
  > Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >
  >






May The Force Be With You Always,

   Matt "Ka'ge" Bergevin
   Jedi Commander of Alderaan
   www.jediguardians.com
301-906-3354 Cell




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not sure who's active over the holidays. Some groups meet in schools and so
have had to take a vacation.

That said, there is a lot of rapier activity in this area. This includes SCA
rapier (or epee), and some more historic styles. There are also some longsword
groups (mostly German).

I do rapier in College Park, MD with SCA Storvik. Monday nights at 7. and
meets next Monday.
http://storvik.atlantia.sca.org/

Other SCA rapier fencing groups meeting other days include Columbia MD
(Lochmere) or Falls Church VA (Ponte Alto). With a bit more driving (check
"neighboring groups" on any SCA website you can find a rapier practice about 6
days a week.
http://lochmere.atlantia.sca.org/
http://pontealto.atlantia.sca.org/

The Mid-Atlantic Society for Historic Swordsmanship does a variety of
classical styles of Bolognese Rapier and German Longsword in Annapolis and
Brooklyn Park MD
http://www.mashs.org/
many of the members may be found on the following list
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricalMartialStudySociety/

One local SCA group does both SCA-type and classical rapier:
http://www.stierbach.org/calendar/calendar.php

There is also an advanced group that does classical fencing twice a month at
Glen Echo park in Maryland. I've misplaced my contact information.
http://www.glenechopark.org/index.htm
http://www.nps.gov/glec/

If, by classical fencing, you mean non-electric Olympic-style fencing you
might try the Virginia Academy of Fencing
http://www.vafinc.com/

------ Original Message ------
Received: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 07:46:40 PM EST
From: "odzadoro2001" <jnirenberg@...>
To: classicalfencing@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CFML] classical fencing in Washington, DC area

> Could anyone direct me to a group in Washington, DC or the surrounding
> area?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The CFML is sponsored in part by Twin Arms Fencing, featuring custom
> Italian foils. www.twinarmsfencing.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the link! Now that is not something I thought I'd ever see!

Jim

On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 6:54 AM, <Zoergiebel@...> wrote:

>   Dear friends,
>
> Happy Holidays and a successful new fencing year to all of you.
>
> To suitably enjoy the season, I've uploaded what could be the first "video"
> of 19th-century French saber:
>
>
>
http://fencingclassics.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/ooooh-aaaahhh-worlds-first-saber\
-video-france-c-1880/
>
> Hope you like!
>
> Chris Amberger
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
"There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the
doors of perception." Aldous Huxley


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Could anyone direct me to a group in Washington, DC or the surrounding
area?

Chris,

Thank you for the video. As usual you have dug well beneath the surface in order
to provide new material on the history of fencing.

Respectfully,
Brian House

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friends,



Happy Holidays and a successful new fencing year to all of you.




To suitably enjoy the season, I've uploaded what could be the first "video" of
19th-century French saber:




http://fencingclassics.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/ooooh-aaaahhh-worlds-first-saber\
-video-france-c-1880/




Hope you like!




Chris Amberger













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]