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#15390 From: "Steve Tattersall <steven_tattersall@...>" <steven_tattersall@...>
Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:04 pm
Subject: Drissa steven_tatte...
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Happy new year ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/b/burnley/2645587.stm

"Burnley manager Stan Ternent has moved to tighten up the Clarets' leaky defence
with the signing of French defender Drissa Diallo.

"Diallo has signed a month's contract with the Turf Moor club after his Belgian
club Mechelen went into liquidation.

"The 30-year-old, who was born in Mauritania but has French nationality, has
been with Mechelen for the past four years.

"Diallo will be in Burnley's squad for their game against Ipswich Town on
Saturday as Ternent looks to improve the second-worst defensive record in the
First Division. "

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#15389 From: ClarretsSteve@...
Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 2:19 pm
Subject: Re: tragic. ClarretsSteve@...
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I think that the performance on Saturday was linked to the tragic off field
activities the previous week.

Prior to the game there was a statement from the police read over the PA,
followed by a one minutes silence.  The combined effects were that everyone
connected with the club were in something of a sad and reflective mind set.

Now it could be argued that the players, professionals to a man, should be above
such negative mental thoughts prior to a match.

The reality of the situation was that virtually every burnley supporter on the
ground felt an enormous shame and sorrow for what had happend and it was
reflected in the suport given to the team.  Conversely, the team must have had
simmilar feelings and were similarly affectd.

On the other hand Rotherham came out of the blocks, no not like a whippet, but
at an average speed , but soon found due to our mind set, that they had space,
time and the legs for the match.

Im not blaming anyone. The performance on saturday, was a combination of a
tragic situation and the resultant implications.

Im sure that the team will be back to the right frame of mind next week when we
will be able to continue with the recent excellent performances.

Its just a tragedy, that one young Notts Forrest fan is unable to do the same.

     UTC.

     Steve.

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#15388 From: "Whitley, Alan" <ALAN.WHITLEY@...>
Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:56 am
Subject: tragic. alburnley
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Fair enough it was tragic, but are times really that bad that this was
"bound to happen", or was it just a tragic incident that normally would have
ended with the lad a few stitches in a head wound?  It doesn't sound like a
full-on pitch battle does it?

On an equally gloomy note...what the hell happened on Saturday?  I couldn't
make it to the game, I wasn't too disappointed, thinking it would be a low
scoring, midfield battle.  WRONG!  Stan has been fairly restrained in his
post match interviews, why is that?  Was it just one of those Grimsby games
where every shot they had went in?  Or did they just want it more?

grim times, bottom half of the league again...
let's hope for a happy Christmas.
alan.



-----Original Message-----
From: clarets@yahoogroups.com [mailto:clarets@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 16 December 2002 10:49
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [clarets] Digest Number 724


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There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

       1. Re: RE: Tragic Event
            From: "Jonathan Jackson" <jonjack@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 13:21:47 +0000
    From: "Jonathan Jackson" <jonjack@...>
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event

Would it make any difference to peoples perception of the incident if, for
example, this had been a pre arranged fight or if he had gone into Yates
with a group of away fans looking for trouble? Lets wait for all the
evidence to come out before we speculate.  Someone has been arrested and put

forward his version of events and the first we will hear of it is when it is

read out in Court.

However, the problem is not beer, its the underlying attitude that makes
men, mainly late teens early twenties, want to fight for the group they
belong to. In this case it is their local town and the focus of their
"loyalty" is the football club.

Every few years the cycle revolves and it rears its ugly head.  When I was
that age it was the "Suicide Squad", now its the "Burberry boys" if anything

positive comes out of this incident it will be that a few young men will
realise the futility of what they are doing and how stupid they look.






>From: "Mik Stevens" <mik_stevens@...>
>Reply-To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:39:50 +0000
>
>
>I've said on the other group, this really isn't the palce to perform the
>trial.  I've talked to someone in Yates' at the time and I'd place the
>blame
>very much on the Burnley side of things.  I'm not going to go into details.
>The victim, from the accounts I've heard, did not bring anything on himself
>by his actions.
>
>I'm not going to speculate at all about the attacker, that's upto the
>courts.
>
>mik
>
>
> >From: "Graham Veevers" <graham_veevers@...>
> >Reply-To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> >To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
> >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:49:25 +0000
> >
> >
> >I havn't read all the press but there seems to
> >be a lot of presumptions going on here.
> >
> >Was perpetrator of attack a Burnley fan - had he ever been on the turf?
> >Was he drunk or sober and just wanted a fight?
> >Had he been drinking at all ?
> >
> >Seems some of the jury have him as a passionate Burnley fan pissed out of
> >his head dressed in stone island determied to cause trouble - lets have
>the
> >facts clearly laid out before we go ballistic. Does anybody know anything
> >about the accused?
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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#15387 From: "Jonathan Jackson" <jonjack@...>
Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event jonjack@...
Send Email

Would it make any difference to peoples perception of the incident if, for
example, this had been a pre arranged fight or if he had gone into Yates
with a group of away fans looking for trouble? Lets wait for all the
evidence to come out before we speculate.  Someone has been arrested and put
forward his version of events and the first we will hear of it is when it is
read out in Court.

However, the problem is not beer, its the underlying attitude that makes
men, mainly late teens early twenties, want to fight for the group they
belong to. In this case it is their local town and the focus of their
"loyalty" is the football club.

Every few years the cycle revolves and it rears its ugly head.  When I was
that age it was the "Suicide Squad", now its the "Burberry boys" if anything
positive comes out of this incident it will be that a few young men will
realise the futility of what they are doing and how stupid they look.






>From: "Mik Stevens" <mik_stevens@...>
>Reply-To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:39:50 +0000
>
>
>I've said on the other group, this really isn't the palce to perform the
>trial.  I've talked to someone in Yates' at the time and I'd place the
>blame
>very much on the Burnley side of things.  I'm not going to go into details.
>The victim, from the accounts I've heard, did not bring anything on himself
>by his actions.
>
>I'm not going to speculate at all about the attacker, that's upto the
>courts.
>
>mik
>
>
> >From: "Graham Veevers" <graham_veevers@...>
> >Reply-To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> >To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
> >Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:49:25 +0000
> >
> >
> >I havn't read all the press but there seems to
> >be a lot of presumptions going on here.
> >
> >Was perpetrator of attack a Burnley fan - had he ever been on the turf?
> >Was he drunk or sober and just wanted a fight?
> >Had he been drinking at all ?
> >
> >Seems some of the jury have him as a passionate Burnley fan pissed out of
> >his head dressed in stone island determied to cause trouble - lets have
>the
> >facts clearly laid out before we go ballistic. Does anybody know anything
> >about the accused?
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


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actually, sitting on the outside reading the posts, whilst the suggestion of a drinks ban is ill-considered, it was simply that - a suggestion. I'm not sure it required the somewhat severe response from Martin which took it from a point of discussion into more personal territory.

I fell in love with Burnley when I moved there as a 21 year old. One of the comments I would make to friends up and down the country was that I had never found pubs in a town centre on Friday/Saturday nights that were so friendly (e.g. having your dink topped up if accidentally bumped into). This should be compared with Bolton, where Deansgate is nothing more than a battlefield for drink inspired violence on Friday evenings.

Perhaps the (small town - which it is, in size, not stature) community spirit that welcomes its own, works in direct reverse in intensity for the mindless few, where an opposing football fan specifically becomes an intruder. I'm with whoever said that booze is a side issue - it's the mentality that needs sorting out.

Hope this doesn't offend

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
> As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
> Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
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>
>
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I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

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#15386 From: "Eddie" <bechta@...>
Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event bechta2000
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Thanks Mik, from posts I assumed he and the incident was in the bar. Regardless, I still feel terrible about the whole thing.

Eddie

----- Original Message -----

From: Mik Stevens

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 8:07 AM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

The minimum age for pubs (at certain times, according to the licensing laws of the establishment) is zero. The minimum age for drinking is 18. Yates' is on the main shopping street for Burnley, the 17 year old was with family memebers in a public bar at lunchtime. I have no information if he was drinking or not. I have information that he was not being anti social though. mik >From: "Eddie" <bechta@...> >Reply-To: clarets@yahoogroups.com >To: <clarets@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event >Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 05:53:09 +0800 > >Sadly, laws are made to be broken. The unfortunate Nottingham lad was only >17. Isn't 18 the min age for pubs? Had he abided by the law this may never >have happened. > >Eddie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: sean scholfield > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 1:03 AM > Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event > > > Thanks for the responses-firstly I would like to apologise if I offended >anyone-all I think Im trying to say is that in two cities Coventry and >Glasgow, alcohol curfews were imposed for a number of years during the >eighties with some effect. Coventry had problems with skinheads at the >time, and Glasgow, later with glass and knife related crime. Also >Scunthorpe and hull have got in on the act in the past, implementing >drunkenness laws that already exist..The implementation of the law was to >prevent violence within the city limits both had some degree of success. >Of course this is draconian and stops non violent people from having fun. >It also shifts the drinkers in some places to the next town where clashes >may or may not occur. Every action has an interaction. > > I agree there are enough psychos who dont touch a drop to keep their >fighting sharp. > > But on the suspension of more recent restrictions in Glasgow, the >drinkers have since then been queing somewhat more orderly and have been >much quieter with a threat of a return to curfew if violence returns, >hanging over them. Glasgow has in recent years become a place to be on a >Friday night. > > What I should point in out retrospect as well is that we dont know if >drink was involved on one or both sides. Is the person arrested already >under a ban? Are banned supporters barred from a certain radius of Turf >Moor on a Saturday afternoon? > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG > > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > For technical help and posting guidelines, visit >http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
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#15385 From: "Colin Morris <colin-morris@...>" <colin-morris@...>
Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:53 pm
Subject: Re: Tragic Event cmorris04
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I'm not sure the comparsion to US pro sports is particularly
illuminating. The concept of large numbers of fans travelling to away
games on a regular basis simply doesn't exist, mainly because of the
distances involved. Sure there will be some visiting fans (often
people who've moved city and are going to watch their old-city team)
but their numbers are limited.

Strangely enough, the closest comparsion to England is probably high
school (American) football where, believe it or not, crowds are
segregated and violent incidents occur every year (usually instigated
by parents!).

I agree with you about civil liberties, however. I, too, am stunned
at the manner in which visiting supporters are treated and will never
watch a game in the 'visitors' section, even when Burnley are playing
away.

--- In clarets@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Campbell <acampbell99@y...>
wrote:
>
> As a supporter on the 70s I was on the longside when someone was
knifed and had a bottle dropped on me by man utd supporters from the
top of the bee hole end. So I don't think I'm naive about the
violence problems in football.
> But as I haven't lived in Burnley permenantly for 25 years I hadn't
been to an away game for almost as long. This summer I attended the
game at Wolves and was shocked at the elaborate security
(helicopters, video, etc.) in place and the seeming widespread
acceptance of it. I was amazed that the cost of it was able to be
absorbed and that the average fan was willing to put their own
personal freedom aside.
> The contrast with N American fan culture was very striking, as I
can buy an available ticket to sit in a ground/arena anywhere my team
is playing and attend that game without taunts or fear of physical
injury. I would be welcomed by the community I visited as a
contributor to the local economy. There is certainly less passion on
display, but maybe that's not such a bad thing ?
> Andrew
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

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#15384 From: Andrew Campbell <acampbell99@...>
Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 4:31 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event acampbell99
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As a supporter on the 70s I was on the longside when someone was knifed and had a bottle dropped on me by man utd supporters from the top of the bee hole end. So I don't think I'm naive about the violence problems in football.

But as I haven't lived in Burnley permenantly for 25 years I hadn't been to an away game for almost as long. This summer I attended the game at Wolves and was shocked at the elaborate security (helicopters, video, etc.) in place and the seeming widespread acceptance of it. I was amazed that the cost of it was able to be absorbed and that the average fan was willing to put their own personal freedom aside.

The contrast with N American fan culture was very striking, as I can buy an available ticket to sit in a ground/arena anywhere my team is playing and attend that game without taunts or fear of physical injury. I would be welcomed by the community I visited as a contributor to the local economy. There is certainly less passion on display, but maybe that's not such a bad thing ?

Andrew

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#15383 From: "Mik Stevens" <mik_stevens@...>
Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 12:07 am
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event mmmmmiiiiikkkkk
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The minimum age for pubs (at certain times, according to the licensing laws
of the establishment) is zero.

The minimum age for drinking is 18.

Yates' is on the main shopping street for Burnley, the 17 year old was with
family memebers in a public bar at lunchtime.

I have no information if he was drinking or not.  I have information that he
was not being anti social though.

mik




>From: "Eddie" <bechta@...>
>Reply-To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>To: <clarets@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 05:53:09 +0800
>
>Sadly, laws are made to be broken.  The unfortunate Nottingham lad was only
>17. Isn't 18 the min age for pubs? Had he abided by the law this may never
>have happened.
>
>Eddie
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: sean scholfield
>   To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 1:03 AM
>   Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
>   Thanks for the responses-firstly I would like to apologise if I offended
>anyone-all I think Im trying to say is that in two cities Coventry and
>Glasgow, alcohol curfews were imposed for a number of years during the
>eighties with some effect. Coventry had problems with skinheads at the
>time, and Glasgow, later with glass and knife related crime. Also
>Scunthorpe and hull have got in on the act in the past, implementing
>drunkenness laws that already exist..The implementation of the law was to
>prevent violence within the city limits both had some degree of success.
>Of course this is draconian and stops non violent people from having fun.
>It also shifts the drinkers in some places to the next town where clashes
>may or may not occur.  Every action has an interaction.
>
>   I agree there are enough psychos who dont touch a drop to keep their
>fighting sharp.
>
>    But on the suspension of more recent restrictions in Glasgow, the
>drinkers have since then been queing somewhat more orderly and have been
>much quieter with a threat of a return to curfew if violence returns,
>hanging over them.  Glasgow has in recent years become a place to be on a
>Friday night.
>
>   What I should point in out retrospect as well is that we dont know if
>drink was involved on one or both sides.  Is the person arrested already
>under a ban?  Are banned supporters barred from a certain radius of Turf
>Moor on a Saturday afternoon?
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>   Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
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>


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#15382 From: "Mik Stevens" <mik_stevens@...>
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event mmmmmiiiiikkkkk
Offline
Send Email

I've said on the other group, this really isn't the palce to perform the
trial.  I've talked to someone in Yates' at the time and I'd place the blame
very much on the Burnley side of things.  I'm not going to go into details.
The victim, from the accounts I've heard, did not bring anything on himself
by his actions.

I'm not going to speculate at all about the attacker, that's upto the
courts.

mik


>From: "Graham Veevers" <graham_veevers@...>
>Reply-To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:49:25 +0000
>
>
>I havn't read all the press but there seems to
>be a lot of presumptions going on here.
>
>Was perpetrator of attack a Burnley fan - had he ever been on the turf?
>Was he drunk or sober and just wanted a fight?
>Had he been drinking at all ?
>
>Seems some of the jury have him as a passionate Burnley fan pissed out of
>his head dressed in stone island determied to cause trouble - lets have the
>facts clearly laid out before we go ballistic. Does anybody know anything
>about the accused?
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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Hope this doesn't offend

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
> As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
> Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
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>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>

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I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15381 From: "Eddie" <bechta@...>
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:53 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event bechta2000
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Sadly, laws are made to be broken. The unfortunate Nottingham lad was only 17. Isn't 18 the min age for pubs? Had he abided by the law this may never have happened.

Eddie

----- Original Message -----

From: sean scholfield

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 1:03 AM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

Thanks for the responses-firstly I would like to apologise if I offended anyone-all I think Im trying to say is that in two cities Coventry and Glasgow, alcohol curfews were imposed for a number of years during the eighties with some effect. Coventry had problems with skinheads at the time, and Glasgow, later with glass and knife related crime. Also Scunthorpe and hull have got in on the act in the past, implementing drunkenness laws that already exist..The implementation of the law was to prevent violence within the city limits both had some degree of success. Of course this is draconian and stops non violent people from having fun. It also shifts the drinkers in some places to the next town where clashes may or may not occur. Every action has an interaction.
I agree there are enough psychos who dont touch a drop to keep their fighting sharp.
But on the suspension of more recent restrictions in Glasgow, the drinkers have since then been queing somewhat more orderly and have been much quieter with a threat of a return to curfew if violence returns, hanging over them. Glasgow has in recent years become a place to be on a Friday night.
What I should point in out retrospect as well is that we dont know if drink was involved on one or both sides. Is the person arrested already under a ban? Are banned supporters barred from a certain radius of Turf Moor on a Saturday afternoon?

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#15380 From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event magiclard
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Thanks for the responses-firstly I would like to apologise if I offended anyone-all I think Im trying to say is that in two cities Coventry and Glasgow, alcohol curfews were imposed for a number of years during the eighties with some effect. Coventry had problems with skinheads at the time, and Glasgow, later with glass and knife related crime. Also Scunthorpe and hull have got in on the act in the past, implementing drunkenness laws that already exist..The implementation of the law was to prevent violence within the city limits both had some degree of success. Of course this is draconian and stops non violent people from having fun. It also shifts the drinkers in some places to the next town where clashes may or may not occur. Every action has an interaction.

I agree there are enough psychos who dont touch a drop to keep their fighting sharp.

But on the suspension of more recent restrictions in Glasgow, the drinkers have since then been queing somewhat more orderly and have been much quieter with a threat of a return to curfew if violence returns, hanging over them. Glasgow has in recent years become a place to be on a Friday night.

What I should point in out retrospect as well is that we dont know if drink was involved on one or both sides. Is the person arrested already under a ban? Are banned supporters barred from a certain radius of Turf Moor on a Saturday afternoon?

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#15379 From: "Steve Dole" <sdole@...>
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:21 pm
Subject: RE: Tragic Event funkydolester
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I've always felt that discussion is the best way to resolve and avoid violence.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Goss [mailto:patrick.goss@...]
Sent: 12 December 2002 15:46
To: 'Steve Dole '; 'clarets@yahoogroups.com '
Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hey great way to solve violence, Lets all argue about stuff...

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Dole
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/12/02 13:56
Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

'Beer plus yobs equals violence'

If I remember my O Level maths I'd suggest that yobs minus beer still
equals yobs.

If you think that a beer ban will turn Turf Moor and the surrounding
area into an oasis of fraternal bliss you're being a little naive. And
how exactly would this ban be regulated? How far away from the ground
would it extend? Do the police search all fans for cans, bottles and hip
flasks? Do we all take a breathalyser test before we're admitted to the
ground?

Sorry if I don't have an alternative but knee-jerk reactions rarely work
as intended. Maybe you should have a quick pint and calm down.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:19
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Obviously youre a glop head mate who caqnt go without for a DAY. Beer
plus yobs equals violence. And we will be banned from drinking it.
What are you going to do laugh it off I see you didnt come back with
anything like an idea. Think before you drink before you post. It saves
me time replying

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

_____

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#15378 From: Patrick Goss <patrick.goss@...>
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 3:46 pm
Subject: RE: Tragic Event claretsfan77
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Hey great way to solve violence, Lets all argue about stuff...

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Dole
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 11/12/02 13:56
Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

'Beer plus yobs equals violence'

If I remember my O Level maths I'd suggest that yobs minus beer still
equals yobs.

If you think that a beer ban will turn Turf Moor and the surrounding
area into an oasis of fraternal bliss you're being a little naive. And
how exactly would this ban be regulated? How far away from the ground
would it extend? Do the police search all fans for cans, bottles and hip
flasks? Do we all take a breathalyser test before we're admitted to the
ground?

Sorry if I don't have an alternative but knee-jerk reactions rarely work
as intended. Maybe you should have a quick pint and calm down.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:19
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Obviously youre a glop head mate who caqnt go without for a DAY. Beer
plus yobs equals violence. And we will be banned from drinking it.
What are you going to do laugh it off I see you didnt come back with
anything like an idea. Think before you drink before you post. It saves
me time replying

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

_____

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Yahoo! Mail
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#15377 From: "Eddie" <bechta@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: Tragic Event bechta2000
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Much has been written here re ale bans. I think we need to look at things in context. Here in Oz we are treated like common criminals at turnstiles, having bags etc checked for ilicit alcohol. It is NOT to prevent fighting, but to ensure people buy from the ground bars. I recall one occasion one hot day having my soft drinks examined....once inside the ground I couldn't even get my own seat as drunken thugs were sitting there and the security were too frightened to move them (This is NOT common, it was not a regular ground or game) Inside the ground people were drinking like fish (common occurance). These bag checks which are supposed to be conducted at all regular grounds and games, are to protect the corporate interests of the brewery. At the WACA it is common to see 'fans' who have spend the whole cricket match in the bar, creating a disturbance.

But to be fair, at Oz rules games, despite the freely avialbale plonk, there is very little trouble.

I don't think banning will solve the problem. Idiots will always make trouble ragardless. But, it is true that once a level of alcohol has been consumed, potential trouble-makers can turn into actual trouble makers.

In UK football, it is a huge, social problem and one that is growing at Association Football here in Oz but not yet in AFL.

Let people have a drink before and after the game please. Enough of punishing innocent for the behaviour of what is a minority of the guilty. Perhaps identification and true punishement of the guilty is a start. If Tony and other know where, why and how thugs hang out at the ground, then surley so too, should the law....

Eddie

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#15376 From: "Eddie" <bechta@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:56 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event bechta2000
Offline
Send Email

Agree Tony, and they have been since the '60's when I regularly drove buses through the town centre.

Eddie

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:43 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

The pubs in the town centre of Burnley could be described as many things but friendly is not one of them. They are like a battlefield every weekend. It is wrong to suggest that our town is OK and towns such as Bolton are not. Ours is every bit as bad. Tony > > From: Ian Jagger <ijagger@...> > Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 03:26:19 GMT > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event > > actually, sitting on the outside reading the posts, whilst the suggestion of a drinks ban is ill-considered, it was simply that - a suggestion. I'm not sure it required the somewhat severe response from Martin which took it from a point of discussion into more personal territory. > > I fell in love with Burnley when I moved there as a 21 year old. One of the comments I would make to friends up and down the country was that I had never found pubs in a town centre on Friday/Saturday nights that were so friendly (e.g. having your dink topped up if accidentally bumped into). This should be compared with Bolton, where Deansgate is nothing more than a battlefield for drink inspired violence on Friday evenings. > > Perhaps the (small town - which it is, in size, not stature) community spirit that welcomes its own, works in direct reverse in intensity for the mindless few, where an opposing football fan specifically becomes an intruder. I'm with whoever said that booze is a side issue - it's the mentality that needs sorting out. > > Hope this doesn't offend > > Ian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tony Scholes > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM > Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event > > > There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that). > > I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician. > > Tony > > > > > From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...> > > Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT > > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event > > > > > > I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort. > > Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there. > > As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink. > > Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message----- > > From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...] > > Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08 > > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event > > > > > > Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect. > > We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things. > > > > > > All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG > > > > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG > > > > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > > > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG > > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort. > > Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there. > > As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink. > > Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote: > > I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. > > It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game. > -----Original Message----- > From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...] > Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08 > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event > > > Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect. > > We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things. > > > > All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG > > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG > > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@.... Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG > > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >
Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

actually, sitting on the outside reading the posts, whilst the suggestion of a drinks ban is ill-considered, it was simply that - a suggestion. I'm not sure it required the somewhat severe response from Martin which took it from a point of discussion into more personal territory.

I fell in love with Burnley when I moved there as a 21 year old. One of the comments I would make to friends up and down the country was that I had never found pubs in a town centre on Friday/Saturday nights that were so friendly (e.g. having your dink topped up if accidentally bumped into). This should be compared with Bolton, where Deansgate is nothing more than a battlefield for drink inspired violence on Friday evenings.

Perhaps the (small town - which it is, in size, not stature) community spirit that welcomes its own, works in direct reverse in intensity for the mindless few, where an opposing football fan specifically becomes an intruder. I'm with whoever said that booze is a side issue - it's the mentality that needs sorting out.

Hope this doesn't offend

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
> As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
> Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
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I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15375 From: Tony Scholes <tony.scholes@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event clarettony
Offline
Send Email

Yes those who have been keeping up to date with this via the local press
certainly do.
>
> From: "Graham Veevers" <graham_veevers@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 05:49:25 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>

I havn't read all the press but there seems to be a lot of presumptions going on here. Was perpetrator of attack a Burnley fan - had he ever been on the turf? Was he drunk or sober and just wanted a fight? Had he been drinking at all ? Seems some of the jury have him as a passionate Burnley fan pissed out of his head dressed in stone island determied to cause trouble - lets have the facts clearly laid out before we go ballistic. Does anybody know anything about the accused? _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
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Hope this doesn't offend

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
> As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
> Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
> Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
>
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>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>

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I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15374 From: "Graham Veevers" <graham_veevers@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 5:49 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event graham_veevers@...
Send Email

I havn't read all the press but there seems to
be a lot of presumptions going on here.

Was perpetrator of attack a Burnley fan - had he ever been on the turf?
Was he drunk or sober and just wanted a fight?
Had he been drinking at all ?

Seems some of the jury have him as a passionate Burnley fan pissed out of
his head dressed in stone island determied to cause trouble - lets have the
facts clearly laid out before we go ballistic. Does anybody know anything
about the accused?

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Hope this doesn't offend

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
> As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
> Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
> Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
>
> To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>

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I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15373 From: Tony Scholes <tony.scholes@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:43 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event clarettony
Offline
Send Email

The pubs in the town centre of Burnley could be described as many things but
friendly is not one of them. They are like a battlefield every weekend.

It is wrong to suggest that our town is OK and towns such as Bolton are not.
Ours is every bit as bad.

Tony
>
> From: Ian Jagger <ijagger@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 03:26:19 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
> actually, sitting on the outside reading the posts, whilst the suggestion of a
drinks ban is ill-considered, it was simply that - a suggestion. I'm not sure it
required the somewhat severe response from Martin which took it from a point of
discussion into more personal territory.
>
> I fell in love with Burnley when I moved there as a 21 year old. One of the
comments I would make to friends up and down the country was that I had never
found pubs in a town centre on Friday/Saturday nights that were so friendly
(e.g. having your dink topped up if accidentally bumped into). This should be
compared with Bolton, where Deansgate is nothing more than a battlefield for
drink inspired violence on Friday evenings.
>
> Perhaps the (small town - which it is, in size, not stature) community spirit
that welcomes its own, works in direct reverse in intensity for the mindless
few, where an opposing football fan specifically becomes an intruder. I'm with
whoever said that booze is a side issue - it's the mentality that needs sorting
out.
>
> Hope this doesn't offend
>
> Ian
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Tony Scholes
>   To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM
>   Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
>   There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised
on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been
removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).
>
>   I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other
than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.
>
>   Tony
>
>   >
>   > From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
>   > Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
>   > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>   > Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>   >
>   >
>   > I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
>   > Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and
rudeness.  Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not
one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can
see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only
people who know that are those who where there.
>   >  As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last
week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
>   >  Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is
the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of
dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they
are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly
different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places
where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a
game.-----Original Message-----
>   > From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
>   > Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
>   > To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>   > Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>   >
>   >
>   > Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot.  A public meeting
very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address
the issues.  I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make
instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the
town of this huge problem.  Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I
would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a
mark of respect.
>   > We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other
things.
>   >
>   >
>   > All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>   >
>   >
>   > ---------------------------------
>   > Do you Yahoo!?
>   > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>   > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
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>   > To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>   >
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http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...
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>   >
>   > Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
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>   >
>   > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>   >
>   >
>   > All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>   >
>   >
>   > ---------------------------------
>   > Do you Yahoo!?
>   > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>   >
>
>   Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
>
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http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
>
>   Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and
rudeness.  Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not
one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can
see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only
people who know that are those who where there.
>
>    As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last
week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
>
>    Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:
>
>     I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing
teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the
most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of
Burnley FC.
>
>     It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of
just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs
before/ after a game.
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
>       Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
>       To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
>       Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
>       Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot.  A public
meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to
address the issues.  I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we
can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes
to rid the town of this huge problem.  Even a temporary ale ban would not go
amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this
weekends match as a mark of respect.
>
>       We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other
things.
>
>
>
>       All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       Do you Yahoo!?
>       Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>       Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
>
>       To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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Hope this doesn't offend

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
> As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
> Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
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I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15372 From: Ian Jagger <ijagger@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event ijagger@...
Send Email

Hope this doesn't offend

Ian

----- Original Message -----

From: Tony Scholes

To: clarets@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
> As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
> Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
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>
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>
>
> ---------------------------------
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I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15371 From: Michael Short <michael.short@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:57 pm
Subject: RE: Tragic Event michael.short@...
Send Email

Sorry mush, but I didn't suggest a 'Burberry boy' was responsible for an act of murder/manslaughter. I was talking about the general problem of matchday violence in answer to your original post which talked about the general problem as opposed to a specific incident.

It's the general problem which sees people in their late teens (and even school aged children)leaving their haunt at the bottom of the North Stand (closest proximity to the away fans) some 10 minutes before the end of a match. That premeditated action is carried out with the aim of regrouping outside the ground at a place where away supporters - and usually scraf-wearing honest fans - can be attacked without the police stepping in. That, to me, is nothing to do with beer. As I said, banning drink from grounds is not the answer and I think a lot of lessons were learnt after Colin Moynihan's disastrous attempts to curb hooliganism in the 80s.

Good point about naming and shaming though - the police and CPS need to be more proactive with local media about highlighting hooligans who have been convicted by the courts. All too often some lad who might have given a father and his young son a slap out of his misguided club pride will sneak through the courts without anyone finding out.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 14:28
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event

I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.
As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15370 From: Tony Scholes <tony.scholes@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:32 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Tragic Event clarettony
Offline
Send Email

There was indeed a thread on CLarets Mad re: where to drink and we advised on
the cricket club. In light of the events of Saturday the thread has now been
removed because of a couple of posts (don't wish to go into detail on that).

I still cannot believe that your blanket ban on drink was anything other than a
knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't even expect that of a politician.

Tony

>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:27:43 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.
> Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness.
Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of
these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its
not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who
know that are those who where there.
>  As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week
with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.
>  Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:I don't think ale is the
problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs
and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are
willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC. It's also a slightly different
issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away
supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.-----Original
Message-----
> From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot.  A public meeting very
very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the
issues.  I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make
instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the
town of this huge problem.  Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I
would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a
mark of respect.
> We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
> Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
>
> To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
> For technical help and posting guidelines, visit
http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG
>
> To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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> For technical help and posting guidelines, visit
http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>

I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.

Im just making a suggestion which has been subjected to ridicule and rudeness. Anyone got a better idea? To say that it was a Burberry boy (I am not one of these nor do I like them)is somewhat out of order when as far as I can see its not clear what the connection was that started the fight. The only people who know that are those who where there.

As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.

Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15369 From: Tony Scholes <tony.scholes@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tragic Event clarettony
Offline
Send Email

Good of you to be able to make comments about Martin although I presume you have
never met him.

He happens to be a good friend of mine, is a decent Burnley supporter who
reacted to what was nothing other than a knee jerk reaction by yourself.
Preventing people from having a drink before the game on Saturday will do no
good whatsoever. Neither did the banning of drink in grounds either by
Thatcher's government.

The answers to what has happened will not be found overnight, things will not be
in place on Saturday. Changes will have to be made and they will be done over a
period of time.

I agree with Martin totally and so myself await an attack by yourself. I might
just have time to read it in between talking to the club and the police on
improving things long term.

Tony
>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 02:21:47 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
>
> No I have not suggested anything to the club and will not do so. I just made a
suggestion in light of the events.  The unavoidable fact is that alcohol does
make a difference to some peoples behaviour.  He (Martin) obviously cannot see
past his own which whether good or not, deserved the reply he got from me.  Is
everyones memories so bad as to not recall that alcohol was banned from grounds
because of violent events?  I drink myself but personally would not miss its
presence from grounds while the current mess is sorted.
>
>
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>

No I have not suggested anything to the club and will not do so. I just made a suggestion in light of the events. The unavoidable fact is that alcohol does make a difference to some peoples behaviour. He (Martin) obviously cannot see past his own which whether good or not, deserved the reply he got from me. Is everyones memories so bad as to not recall that alcohol was banned from grounds because of violent events? I drink myself but personally would not miss its presence from grounds while the current mess is sorted.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (30)

#15368 From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:27 pm
Subject: RE: Tragic Event magiclard
Offline
Send Email

I dont see myself as making a knee jerk reaction of any sort.

As I remember rightly there was a bit of an exchange on claretsmad last week with suggestions of where Forest Fans could drink.

Michael Short <michael.short@...> wrote:

I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Group Website: http://WWW.CLARETS.ORG To unsubscribe, email clarets-unsubscribe@egroups.com For technical help and posting guidelines, visit http://www.clarets.org/faq/faq.html or email faq@...

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#15367 From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tragic Event magiclard
Offline
Send Email

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

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#15366 From: "Steve Dole" <sdole@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:56 pm
Subject: RE: Tragic Event funkydolester
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'Beer plus yobs equals violence'

If I remember my O Level maths I'd suggest that yobs minus beer still equals yobs.

If you think that a beer ban will turn Turf Moor and the surrounding area into an oasis of fraternal bliss you're being a little naive. And how exactly would this ban be regulated? How far away from the ground would it extend? Do the police search all fans for cans, bottles and hip flasks? Do we all take a breathalyser test before we're admitted to the ground?

Sorry if I don't have an alternative but knee-jerk reactions rarely work as intended. Maybe you should have a quick pint and calm down.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:19
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Obviously youre a glop head mate who caqnt go without for a DAY. Beer plus yobs equals violence. And we will be banned from drinking it. What are you going to do laugh it off I see you didnt come back with anything like an idea. Think before you drink before you post. It saves me time replying

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#15365 From: martintheaker@...
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 8:22 am
Subject: Re: Tragic Event martintheaker
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In a message dated 12/11/2002 4:20:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, magiclard@... writes:

Obviously youre a glop head mate who caqnt go without for a DAY. Beer plus yobs equals violence. And we will be banned from drinking it. What are you going to do laugh it off I see you didnt come back with anything like an idea. Think before you drink before you post. It saves me time replying

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

Well done, the second most ridiculous comment heard during my lifetime.

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#15364 From: Tony Scholes <tony.scholes@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Tragic Event clarettony
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That's out of order. Martin is a friend of mine and I know for a fact can go
without drink for a day.

I will be having a drink before the game but I can assure you it will make no
difference to my behaviour.

Think before you drink before you post - nonsense.

Whether Martin or myself have a drink before the game on Saturday is totally
irrelevant, your suggestion is nothing other than a knee jerk reaction. I assume
that Burnley FC will be selling drink so I take it you will have told them not
to sell it.

Tony
>
> From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
> Date: 2002/12/11 Wed PM 12:19:27 GMT
> To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event
>
> Obviously youre a glop head mate who caqnt go without for a DAY.  Beer plus
yobs equals violence.  And we will be banned from drinking it.  What are you
going to do laugh it off I see you didnt come back with anything like an idea.
Think before you drink before you post.  It saves me time replying
>
> All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>

Obviously youre a glop head mate who caqnt go without for a DAY. Beer plus yobs equals violence. And we will be banned from drinking it. What are you going to do laugh it off I see you didnt come back with anything like an idea. Think before you drink before you post. It saves me time replying

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

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#15363 From: Michael Short <michael.short@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:20 pm
Subject: RE: Tragic Event michael.short@...
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I don't think ale is the problem. The problem is Burberry-wearing teenagers who behave like packs of dogs and suffer delusions that they are the most passionate of fans because they are willing to do battle in the name of Burnley FC.

It's also a slightly different issue to the one that makes Burnley one of just a handful of places where away supporters cannot safely drink in local pubs before/ after a game.

-----Original Message-----
From: sean scholfield [mailto:magiclard@...]
Sent: 11 December 2002 12:08
To: clarets@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [clarets] Tragic Event

Hear Hear Tony We need to strike while the iron is hot. A public meeting very very soon with or without the clubs patronisation is required to address the issues. I would prefer it to be with the club and MPs. so that we can make instantaneous demands, name and shame campaigns and whatever it takes to rid the town of this huge problem. Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.
We could end up being banned from having alcohol anyway, among other things.

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

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#15362 From: sean scholfield <magiclard@...>
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:19 pm
Subject: Re: Tragic Event magiclard
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Obviously youre a glop head mate who caqnt go without for a DAY. Beer plus yobs equals violence. And we will be banned from drinking it. What are you going to do laugh it off I see you didnt come back with anything like an idea. Think before you drink before you post. It saves me time replying

All is calm on the surface, giving lie to the chaos that reigns beneath.

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#15361 From: martintheaker@...
Date: Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:15 am
Subject: Re: Tragic Event martintheaker
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In a message dated 12/11/2002 4:08:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, magiclard@... writes:

Even a temporary ale ban would not go amiss and I would suggest that other fans remain tee total prior to this weekends match as a mark of respect.

Just about the most ridiculous comment I've heard in my life so far. How bloody knee-jerk can you get.

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