I'd call it 'Struck while riding on the sidewalk'.

All I know is that if he'd been riding in the road, he'd be alive today.

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Ortiz" <markortizauto@...> wrote:
>
> What would you call this type of between-intersections collision?

Effective Cycling 7th Edition is now available from The MIT Press, 802
pgs, $37.95
Changes in equipment and in governmental actions have caused those
sections to have the greatest revisions, as well as part of the traffic
cycling section.

The bicycle maintenance section has been revised to reflect the changes
in equipment and maintenance that have occurred in the last decades.
Some information on older equipment has been retained for the use of
those who are still using it. Since there has been no worthwhile
research into accident statistics done in the last few decades, that
section has had very little revision.
The greatest changes have been in the areas concerning the interaction
between cyclists and  government, from traffic skills to governmental
programs. For decades, American governmental policy had been to restrict
cyclists (to the edge of the roadway and to bikeways) using the argument
that cyclists are incapable of obeying the rules of the road for drivers
of vehicles.  Effective Cycling's earlier editions argued that obeying
those rules was both best for cyclists and easy to do. Now American
governmental policy has reversed itself, in a way, so it now encourages
onto our roadways just those cyclists deemed incapable of obeying the
rules of the road. The seventh edition of Effective Cycling continues to
demonstrate the advantages of obeying the rules of the road, but it also
emphasizes the importance of not doing whatever the governmental policy
and its bikeways appear to encourage. At the level of traffic-cycling
skills this produces much more emphasis on a cyclist controlling the
lane he or she occupies, together with the engineering analysis of the
motorist-overtaking-cyclist situation demonstrating that, in most cases,
controlling the lane precludes no opportunities for safe and lawful
overtaking. For most lane widths, having cyclists operate far right
encourages only dangerous and unlawful overtaking through the narrow gap
between the cyclist and the traffic in the adjacent lane. At the level
of political action, this new emphasis, while recognizing that it is
impossible to reverse the governmental policy encouraging incompetent
cycling and the bikeways it produces, is a clarion call for lawful,
competent cyclists to work together to get repeal of those laws that
prevent cyclists from obeying the standard rules of the road instead of
the rules for supposedly incapable bicycle riders.

--
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St. Lemon Grove CA 91945-2306
619-644-5481    forester@...
www.johnforester.com

==================================
THE CHAINGUARD LIST IS NOT INTENDED AS A CHAT ROOM, FORUM OR BULLETIN BOARD FOR
BICYCLING CHIT-CHAT OR DISCUSSION OF BICYCLING EXPERIENCES.

The list is not for discussion of cycling experiences unless somehow directly
related to ADVOCACY. This can on occasion include discussion of proper VC
technique and principles which are to be advocated, but please remember:

THE PURPOSE OF THIS LIST IS NOT HOW TO PEDAL A BICYCLE-
IT IS HOW TO PEDDLE VEHICULAR CYCLING.

The list was established for use by a what was assumed would be a relatively
small number of contributors for serious discussions of vehicular-bicycling
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If that is what you are seeking, please find one and use it.

The ONLY correct topic for posts to the Chainguard list is:

VEHICULAR CYCLING ADVOCACY ISSUES

That's ADVOCACY, with an emphasis on effective methods and ideas.

===================================

The Chainguard list is for those who believe that bicyclists have the right,
should expect, and be prepared to demand, safe accommodation as vehicle
operators on EVERY road - the rights and concepts known as Vehicular Cycling.

The list is for those who have moved beyond debating vehicular-cycling as
compared to restricted lanes and separate pedestrian-bicycle facilities. If you
are using this list to debate the merits of Vehicular Cycling vs. "paint and
path" then you are on the wrong list and your posts will be deleted.

If you are an active vehicular cyclist or advocate, or someone wishing to learn
more about vehicular cycling and why we believe what we do, then stick around.

==================

Please use your real name when posting to the list, and not just a screen
name, email address or nickname. If you feel your views are so embarrassing to
yourself that you would rather remain "anonymouse" then you should post
elsewhere.

===========================
Why was my post rejected?

List activity is moderated using the following guidelines, however, exceptions
are based on individual note content and overall list activity.

All postings must be on topic and relevant to the discussion of vehicular
cycling advocacy. Postings which do not have direct bearing on the topic of
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Continued bickering between individuals will be deleted.  Do not impose your ego
on the other list subscribers. Summarize your viewpoint and take the rest to
personal email.

Posting activity guideline is a maximum of three postings per day per
subscriber.

Prolonged rants, personal attacks, offensive language, and any other
pre-third-grade level communications will be deleted and the member's
subscription terminated.

Unless adding new observations or amplifications, "Me too" comments will be
deleted- not that it is a bad idea, just that the list would become tedious.  If
you wish to thank a poster for a brilliant post or state your agreement, that is
a great idea, just do so directly to that poster and not to the list.

Republishing copyrighted material, for example entire news articles, is
prohibited.  Please use excerpts or links to copyrighted material.

=============================

Jack Taylor
Chainguard List Moderator

This is the monthly mailing of Chainguard member Vehicular Cycling websites and
blogs.

If you are a Chainguard member who maintains or controls a blog or website
dealing with VC advocacy and issues please send the following information to
probicycle@... for inclusion in this listing:

1)Your name
2)Your location
3) Optional- A brief (100 word) biography or summary of your cycling/advocacy
history.
4)The URL of your blog/s or website/s and a brief (50 word) description of each.


CHAINGUARD MEMBER BLOGS AND WEBSITES

=======================
Reed Bates
Texas, USA

<a href="http://www.chipsea.blogspot.com">http://www.chipsea.blogspot.com</a>

I am Reed Bates, AKA ChipSeal. I Live in Ennis Texas. (about 20 miles south of
Dallas) I am a divorced 49 year old male, I have been car-free and a vehicular
cyclist from September 2006.

My blog was inspired by Cycle Dallas and Commute Orlando blogs (PM Summers, and
Keri Caffery's respectively) and I have been discussing the application of Texas
law to local road conditions. It is a VC advocacy blog.

========================
John Brooking
Maine, USA

<a
href="http://www.PortlandBikeCommuting.org">http://www.PortlandBikeCommuting.org\
</a>

Site description: The Portland Maine Bicycle Commuting Meetup is a site based on
the Meetup.com social networking service. It seeks to encourage the use of
bicycles as transportation in Southern Maine, educate cyclists in bicycle
transportation and proper traffic cycling, and build community among
transportational cyclists.

Bio: I have been commuting 10 miles a day year-round by bicycle since 2002, with
no prior serious cycling experience. I have come to learn and appreciate
vehicular cycling through riding a daily route on arterial roads without bike
lanes and, in some places, without shoulders. I seek to balance encouragement of
transportational cycling with education of vehicular cycling principles and
promotion of our rights to the full road. I am a graduate of the LAB Road I
course, and am enrolled for the LCI course this summer(2009).

========================
John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
California, USA

<a href="http://johnforester.com">http://johnforester.com</a>

I control, and largely write, the website johnforester.com. Almost all of that
website is concerned with cycling transportation engineering in the broadest
sense, from bicycle design to governmental programs, from physiology to
sociology.


=======================
Kat Iverson
Oregon, USA

<a
href="http://www.geocities.com/vcadvocate/">http://www.geocities.com/vcadvocate/\
</a>

I count my transportational cycling from 1974 when I bought a 10-speed bike and
had no car available.  I used neighborhood streets until I got tired of the stop
signs.  When I became comfortable on slightly busy streets I ventured onto
busier and busier ones.  Now I can ride anywhere.

My collection of pages contains links to laws in Oregon and Washington County; a
classified list of links to bicycling sites about riding, roads, research, etc.;
and some of my own essays.

Geocities is closing down soon, so I shall have to move it elsewhere.  Do you
know of anything similar to Geocities?  Or I might put it on space I'm allotted
by my ISP.


=======================
Steve Schmitt
Director, Coalition for Appropriate Transportation
Pennsylvania, USA

<a
href="http://www.car-free.org/bike/BikeEd.html">http://www.car-free.org/bike/Bik\
eEd.html</a>

=======================
John Schubert
Pennsylvania, USA

<a href="http://limeport.org">http://limeport.org</a>

=======================
Ed Wagner
Oklahoma, USA

<a href="http://cycledog.blogspot.com">http://cycledog.blogspot.com</a>
CycleDog is a personal viewpoint, including VC information, humor, family news,
and anything else that enters my head. But the main focus is cycling.

=======================

I'll bet I know why the accident rate per capita isn't actually going up after
such lanes are installed: cycle lanes are being used by people who used to cycle
on the sidewalk. People like me, who cycle on the road, ignore or actively avoid
the bike lanes.

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, Peter Rosenfeld <jprosenfeld@...> wrote:
>
> "In Washington, D.C., a city survey found bicycling on 15th Street more than
doubled since a two-way green lane opened there in 2010. The survey said more
cycling crashes occurred, but with ridership up, the accident rate held
steady.�"
>
>
> No increase in safety, but bicyclists THINK they are safer.
>
> -Peter Rosenfeld
>

Sounds like a win-win to me - more people bicycling, in the pipeline to becoming
full fledged vehicular cyclists. Just think of bike lanes as training wheels,
eventually you don't need them. ;-)

Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: ianbrettcooper <ianbrettcooper@...>
To: chainguard@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 09:37:42 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: [CG] Re: Greenways

I'll bet I know why the accident rate per capita isn't actually going up after
such lanes are installed: cycle lanes are being used by people who used to cycle
on the sidewalk. People like me, who cycle on the road, ignore or actively avoid
the bike lanes.

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, Peter Rosenfeld <jprosenfeld@...> wrote:
>
> "In Washington, D.C., a city survey found bicycling on 15th Street more than
doubled since a two-way green lane opened there in 2010. The survey said more
cycling crashes occurred, but with ridership up, the accident rate held
steady.�"
>
>
> No increase in safety, but bicyclists THINK they are safer.
>
> -Peter Rosenfeld
>




------------------------------------

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That's true, as long as no road cyclists are being lured into the bike
facilities in the belief that they're safer than the road.

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, jerry_foster@... wrote:
>
> Sounds like a win-win to me - more people bicycling, in the pipeline to
becoming full fledged vehicular cyclists. Just think of bike lanes as training
wheels, eventually you don't need them. ;-)

Hi all,


jerry_foster@... wrote:
>
> Sounds like a win-win to me - more people bicycling, in the pipeline
to
becoming full fledged vehicular cyclists. Just think of bike lanes as
training
wheels, eventually you don't need them. ;-)

Jerry's a good guy, but on this topic I stridently disagree.

As Keri has eloquently pointed out, all the fears one develops while
"edge cycling" are self-reinforcing.  Bike lanes aren't gateways to
liberation; they're the gateway drug to cycle tracks.  Think about it:
when's the last time you had a conversation with an edge cyclist and he
said, "Oh, you're right.  Taking the lane is better.  It's obvious, and
I was about to come to that conclusion all by myself."

No, edge cyclists STAY edge cyclists.  The road paint in Washington DC
reinforces edge cycling.  When the kindly government makes your
intersections more screwed up, are you really going to have the
epiphany that approaching intersections from the middle of the lane,
ignoring all that paint, is your best option?  Really?  Are you going
to understand how intersection positioning can either cause or prevent
collisions, when that information is hidden from your view by the road
paint?

To use a strained analogy, would you teach an aspiring young scientist
"creation science" and then try to teach him evolutionary-based
biology?  "Oh, get rid of all your old framing.  Just like that."

John Schubert
Limeport.org

>Sounds like a win-win to me - more people bicycling, in the pipeline to
becoming full fledged vehicular cyclists. Just think of bike lanes as training
wheels, eventually you don't need them. ;-)

See: Bike Lanes and Training Wheels
http://www.labreform.org/training-wheels-bikelanes.htm

"Some "bicycle advocates" claim that bike lanes act as "training
wheels," helping beginners learn to ride.  This comparison may be more
appropriate than they realize.  Let's examine it further.

Both training wheels and bike lanes encourage novices to ride bikes
without learning proper methods -- in one case, without learning
balance; in the other, without learning how to interact with motor
traffic.  Both training wheels and bike lanes introduce hazards to
their users and both discourage learning of better methods."

Very much agreed, and yet somehow they work! We'd all like to have the best
solution, but second best is ok for a while, in my view. There are lots of
examples in other social movements, it's just a matter of how much change you
can get at any one time. Leading them to water is necessary but not sufficient.

Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Carrigan <dcarrigan@...>
To: chainguard@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 11:14:30 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [CG] Re: Greenways

>Sounds like a win-win to me - more people bicycling, in the pipeline to
becoming full fledged vehicular cyclists. Just think of bike lanes as training
wheels, eventually you don't need them. ;-)

See: Bike Lanes and Training Wheels
http://www.labreform.org/training-wheels-bikelanes.htm

"Some "bicycle advocates" claim that bike lanes act as "training
wheels," helping beginners learn to ride.  This comparison may be more
appropriate than they realize.  Let's examine it further.

Both training wheels and bike lanes encourage novices to ride bikes
without learning proper methods -- in one case, without learning
balance; in the other, without learning how to interact with motor
traffic.  Both training wheels and bike lanes introduce hazards to
their users and both discourage learning of better methods."


------------------------------------

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I would bet that many if not most of us here started out as edge
cyclists. I know I did. I never imagined an alternative until one was
presented to me. Eli

 

That's true, as long as no road cyclists are being lured into the bike facilities in the belief that they're safer than the road.

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, jerry_foster@... wrote:
>
> Sounds like a win-win to me - more people bicycling, in the pipeline to becoming full fledged vehicular cyclists. Just think of bike lanes as training wheels, eventually you don't need them. ;-)

-- John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St. Lemon Grove CA 91945-2306
619-644-5481 forester@...
www.johnforester.com

My dad started me on the sidewalk, like almost every other kid. I must have been
about 6 or 7. Within a year though, I was riding on the road.

When I became a teenager, I was riding on busier roads in the UK and riding in
the gutter on such roads, like every other cyclist I knew at the time. I was in
my 20s by the time I was introduced (by a fellow cyclist) to cycling farther out
into the roadway as a way to be safer and more in control of the lane. I didn't
fully adapt to integrated cycling until my 30s.

There's another name for the downward slope of fear leading to worse
solutions, to greater fear etc. "vicious cycle."

At least in the earlier editions of EC, John Forester wrote that it
took years to learn vehicular cycling on one's own, months if a
member of a bike club and weeks by taking his course.

At 09:59 AM 6/2/2012, Gary Cziko wrote:
>
>
>Eli,
>
>I think most of us started as sidewalk (pedestrian) cyclists.
>
>-- Gary

John S. Allen

Technical Writer/Editor,  http://sheldonbrown.com

League Cycling Instructor #77-C

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
http://bikexprt.com
http://john-s-allen.com/blog
http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts

 

There's another name for the downward slope of fear leading to worse
solutions, to greater fear etc. "vicious cycle."

At least in the earlier editions of EC, John Forester wrote that it
took years to learn vehicular cycling on one's own, months if a
member of a bike club and weeks by taking his course.

At 09:59 AM 6/2/2012, Gary Cziko wrote:
>
>
>Eli,
>
>I think most of us started as sidewalk (pedestrian) cyclists.
>
>-- Gary

John S. Allen

Technical Writer/Editor, http://sheldonbrown.com

League Cycling Instructor #77-C

jsallen *at* bikexprt.com
http://bikexprt.com
http://john-s-allen.com/blog
http://bostonbiker.org/streetsmarts

-- John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St. Lemon Grove CA 91945-2306
619-644-5481 forester@...
www.johnforester.com

I agree with Peter, but believe progress is possible to make bike lanes
encourage good behavior. Examples are extremely wide roads painted with 11 ft
lanes and bike lanes right next to them, leaving a wide paved shoulder to the
right, or the beginning part of a new right turn lane, when painted with dotted
bike lanes and a yield to bikes sign, which I believe helps bicyclists learn to
mix with traffic at intersections. Overall, I put bike lanes in the white lie
area of dishonesty, rather like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - they mainly
encourage people who don't know better to bike, which I view as a good thing.
It's far easier to talk about these issues with someone who has already biked
than with someone who has only experienced a car, and to change FTR laws, we
need large numbers of bicyclists to support us.

Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Rosenfeld <jprosenfeld@...>
To: chainguard@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:10:25 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [CG] edge cyclists STAY edge cyclists

I object to them for a more basic reason - they are dishonest. Bicyclists use
them thinking they will be safer when in reality, at best, they don't decrease
safety. Yet they are promoted to bicyclists as a safety feature. They neither
promote learning to bicycling more safely nor provide extra safety for beginner
bicyclists. 

I can attest to the fact that it takes years learning it on one's own. I never
read a single book on VC Or anything like it) before 2010, nor did I take a
course prior to that year. I didn't even learn cycling at school through RoSPA -
my school either didn't participate in the British Cycling Proficiency Scheme,
or I missed it due to illness (I had rheumatic fever at age 10, which may have
been about the time they taught it in my junior school).

I estimate that it took me from 1980 (when I started cycling as a commuter)
until about 1995 to slowly realize on my own that VC (though I never called it
that) made more sense than what I was doing. And from 1984 until 1986 I spent a
lot of time on my bike and covered 10,000 miles and 15 different countries.

And I'm not even particularly dense or slow on the uptake. The problem is,
incompetent cycling works, after a fashion. You can do it for years without
having any reason (other than the occasional near miss that you can easily
ascribe to incompetent drivers) to change your riding habits. Once you do make
the switch, it becomes obvious that VC works, because once you start to practice
it, you just don't get the near misses anymore - at least, nowhere near as
often.

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, "John S. Allen" <jsallen@...> wrote:
>
> There's another name for the downward slope of fear leading to worse
> solutions, to greater fear etc. "vicious cycle."
>
> At least in the earlier editions of EC, John Forester wrote that it
> took years to learn vehicular cycling on one's own, months if a
> member of a bike club and weeks by taking his course.

 

I agree with Peter, but believe progress is possible to make bike lanes encourage good behavior. Examples are extremely wide roads painted with 11 ft lanes and bike lanes right next to them, leaving a wide paved shoulder to the right, or the beginning part of a new right turn lane, when painted with dotted bike lanes and a yield to bikes sign, which I believe helps bicyclists learn to mix with traffic at intersections. Overall, I put bike lanes in the white lie area of dishonesty, rather like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny - they mainly encourage people who don't know better to bike, which I view as a good thing. It's far easier to talk about these issues with someone who has already biked than with someone who has only experienced a car, and to change FTR laws, we need large numbers of bicyclists to support us.

Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Rosenfeld <jprosenfeld@...>
To: chainguard@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 02 Jun 2012 13:10:25 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [CG] edge cyclists STAY edge cyclists

I object to them for a more basic reason - they are dishonest. Bicyclists use them thinking they will be safer when in reality, at best, they don't decrease safety. Yet they are promoted to bicyclists as a safety feature. They neither promote learning to bicycling more safely nor provide extra safety for beginner bicyclists. 

-- John Forester, MS, PE
Bicycle Transportation Engineer
7585 Church St. Lemon Grove CA 91945-2306
619-644-5481 forester@...
www.johnforester.com

At least in the earlier editions of EC, John Forester wrote that it took years to learn vehicular cycling on one's own, months if a member of a bike club and weeks by taking his course.

 

I would bet that many if not most of us here started out as edge
cyclists. I know I did. I never imagined an alternative until one was
presented to me. Eli

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, Peter Rosenfeld <jprosenfeld@...> wrote:
>
> Article on separated bike lanes
>
>
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/wellness/story/2012-05-30/greenlanes-bike-la\
nes-in-cities/55318016/1
>
>  "She says U.S. cities have had standard bike lanes for decades, but many
riders don't see them as safe enough."...
> "In Washington, D.C., a city survey found bicycling on 15th Street more than
doubled since a two-way green lane opened there in 2010. The survey said more
cycling crashes occurred, but with ridership up, the accident rate held
steady. "
>
>
> No increase in safety, but bicyclists THINK they are safer.
>
> -Peter Rosenfeld

Underlying all of this is the false belief that riding a bike in a normal manner
on a normal road is terribly dangerous.  We should not let that go unchallenged!

- Frank Krygowski
>

"Ditto" - Hmmm....  I should probably be clearer:

I learned to ride at age nine on a quiet street, where sidewalks aren't
really an option.  By thirteen I was riding a BMX bike all over central
Fort Lauderdale like a rabid squirrel on speed - sidewalks, streets,
walls, lawns...

I bought my first road bike when I was 18, and graduated to being a
passably law-abiding edge cyclist (and racerboy), where I stayed until
sometime in my early 30's - I don't remember just how, but I was
introduced to the idea of being more interactive with traffic, and it
opened new possibilities.  In my 20's and early 30's I was also an
advocate, until my evolution and the increasing emphasis on
paint-as-the-solution burnt me out on the whole advocacy thing.

Through my 30's 'til present (age 44) I've been an observer and
(more-or-less) participant in the VC mailing list communities, though at
this point I don't ride as much as I'd like.  I own three businesses,
and manage to need a car at hand most of the time.

I am an LCI, am familiar with the Road I course as taught pre-dilution,
and have taken (and am a vocal proponent of) the newer Cycling Savvy
course.  I am unlikely for various reasons to renew my LAB membership,
nor am I planning on becoming a CSI anytime soon, but I do try to
promote VC principles in discussion with local and regional law
enforcement, planning & engineering, and cycling retailers.

Given that CS has a method and message that I think most (if not all) of
us here could stand behind, perhaps we could work to find an ongoing
source of funding to start rolling it out more broadly?  Anyone?

Whitney

Just for discussion, what's the difference between perceived reality and
reality? Some would argue none at all, perception is reality. For our purposes,
if we collectively agree on a set of ideas / conventions, like driving by the
same rules whether on car or bike, I believe we can make it safer in (perceived
and/or "objective") reality.

But other rules might be equally safe if collectively agreed upon - I don't
think we have complete knowledge on the subject. Systems, like roadways, that
depend on error-prone humans, especially those without parallel and redundant
safeguards, are simply not reliable, and in my view not deterministic enough to
unequivocally prefer one set of rules over another without sufficient
experiential data. Roadways are complex (and resource-constrained) systems that
serve multiple simultaneous goals, e.g. volume, speed and safety, among a wide
range of operating vehicles and weather conditions, and necessarily make
tradeoffs among goals, not always in favor of safety.

Anyway, we do get an interesting discussion out of it. ;-)

Jerry

...
No increase in safety, but bicyclists THINK they are safer.

-Peter Rosenfeld

These people are wrong. As a migraine sufferer who gets visual hallucinations
such as aura, I can assure you that what we perceive is not always real. The
jagged lights I see when I experience a migraine do not exist outside of my
brain. The common perception that road cycling is dangerous is similarly
illusory.

When we get into perceptions about relative safety and relative danger, our
perceptions are even less reliable.

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, jerry_foster@... wrote:
>
> Just for discussion, what's the difference between perceived reality and
reality? Some would argue none at all, perception is reality.