--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, Michael <muer@m...> wrote:
> If someone honks and yells simply wave back and smile, I guarantee
> you its makes them livid. Its psychology, they want their actions to
> be matched. When someone yells at you they expect a yell back, if
> you yell they are satisfied if you whisper it refusing to acknoldge
> their anger. Listen and leanr grasshopper.

I think that what many honking or yelling motorists really expect is
that the bicyclist will already be left in the dust and irrelevant
(i.e., inaudible and invisible) as soon as their honking or yelling is
done, sometimes as a result of their underestimating the bicyclist's
speed relative to their own motoring speed at the particular location
and time. They would not even be bothering to look back at the
bicyclist by the time that he or she waves and smiles (and assuming
that he or she does nothing else as well)! A yell back from the
bicyclist would also oftentimes not be audible to them.

I believe that such motorists must be proved darn wrong, such as by
aggressively moving to the left directly behind them after they
cut-off or squeeze-by (which would oftentimes be a good VC practice
anyway in order to avoid getting right-hooked) — with bright bicycle
headlights pointed into their rearview mirror if it is dark enough —
or by blasting a horn that they could hear even blocks away. They must
be made to realize that bicyclists *better* be relevant to their
motoring behavior, or else! Of course, waving and smiling would always
a meaningful possibility *in combination* with the above
attention-getting methods.

Andrew Smolik

In this amazing story

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050831/NEWS16/508310410

a Toledo, Ohio councilwoman is proposing that sidewalk cycling be
legalized to give cyclists an alternative to risking their lives on
the streets.  I suppose that is true, and in fact perhaps by a factor
around four.  What is especially ironic is that, as reported on the
http://probicycle.com site last week, the move comes after police
cited an adult cyclist for sidewalk riding.   Cited in fact after
colliding with a truck that was exiting a driveway.

Jack

If someone honks and yells simply wave back and smile, I guarantee you its makes
them livid. Its psychology, they want their actions to be matched. When someone
yells at you they expect a yell back, if you yell they are satisfied if you
whisper it refusing to acknoldge their anger. Listen and leanr grasshopper.


Michael Ohene
LCI#1125
mohene1@...
http://alliance.freeshell.org

John Ardelli wrote of trying to educate a doorzone ride:

> I've had exactly the same experience, not only with curb huggers, but
> also with cyclists who stay in right turn only lanes to proceed
> straight through an intersection and cyclists who ride literally inches
> from parked cars.
>
> I guess there just isn't enough time in the brief periods of these
> encounters to explain the concept enough to convince anyone to change
> their behavior.  FORMAL education in cycling in traffic is really
> what's needed here...

Last summer I passed a cyclist riding in the door zone and, as I went by,
said, "You're in the door zone - you're safer riding farther out." Within a
half block, a door opened right in front of me; I was six inches beyond it's
reach. At the next traffic light, the other cyclist caught up to me and
said, "Yeah, I see what you mean."

That's what we call and "teaching moment."

Bob Morgan
Cedar Falls, IA

John Ardelli wrote:

>I guess there just isn't enough time in the brief periods of these
>encounters to explain the concept enough to convince anyone to change
>their behavior.  FORMAL education in cycling in traffic is really
>what's needed here...

This was in reply to an anecdote I gave about a curb-hugging novice
starting to turn onto a freeway entrance, then stopping to wait for traffic
to clear in order to cross the entrance and return to the road he had been
using.

My hope is that the brief comment leads the novice to start thinking about
lane position and perhaps try riding a bit leftward, thereby discovering
that this prevents problems.  This will not happen for everyone, but
perhaps for a few.

Formal education would do it faster but a well-timed tip can start the
learning process.

Another anecdote:  I almost doored someone this past Sat.  This was in the
door zone bike lanes as described in "Berea's Bicycle Blunders",
http://www.geocities.com/fredoswald/berea.html.

Knowing of the dangerous bikelane, I looked back for traffic but did not
see the wrong-way rider who had just turned a corner in front of me.  I
yelled at him "Hey, I almost got you.  You're riding the wrong way."  He
stopped and surprisingly, did not act defensive.  I was able to tell him
that both wrong-way and the bike lane was dangerous.  So then he rode away
on the sidewalk (wrong side, of course).  Oh well.


Fred Oswald, LCI #947, <f.oswald "at" earthlink.net>
See cycling information at http://www.crankmail.com/bike-res.html and
http://www.geocities.com/fredoswald/
Help fix LAB:  http://www.labreform.org

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, Darrell Noakes <borealis@s...> wrote:
> There is a stragety that I have found useful, depending on the
nature of
> the encounter. I try to make a mental note of as many details as I am
> able to observe under the circumstances: make, model and colour of the
> vehicle, licence plate number, description of the driver, time of day,
> location of the incident, traffic and related conditions, and whether
> there are any witnesses. Then, at the first safe opportunity, I pull
off
> the road to write down the information before I forget it. Sometimes, I
> snap a quick photograph of the location, so that I have a record of the
> traffic, road, weather and other conditions. If nothing else, this
> exercise allows me to calm down and collect myself before continuing.
> What I do with the information after that depends on several
> considerations.
>   [ ... ]


I have reported such incidents as a possible drunk driver.   Given
their behavior, they could be.  In Ohio, we can phone 800-GRAB-DUI (or
*DUI on the cell phone).  Here is a list of who to phone in the rest
of the USA.

<http://www.madd.org/aboutus/0,1056,1641,00.html>

On Aug 24, 2005, at 10:32 PM, Fred Oswald wrote:

> Last week, I was riding on Ohio 17 near the Cleveland Airport (4 lanes
> plus occasional LT lane).  As I approached an "almost freeway" that
> leads to the Airport (OH 237), I saw an obvious novice ahead of me
> hugging the curb.
>
> I caught up to him riding in the middle of the right lane . . . I
> tried to explain lane position to him, suggesting he ride in the right
> tire track.  He listened, but as I pulled ahead of him, I looked back
> and noticed that he was hugging the curb again.

I've had exactly the same experience, not only with curb huggers, but
also with cyclists who stay in right turn only lanes to proceed
straight through an intersection and cyclists who ride literally inches
from parked cars.

I guess there just isn't enough time in the brief periods of these
encounters to explain the concept enough to convince anyone to change
their behavior.  FORMAL education in cycling in traffic is really
what's needed here...

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

Darryl Skrabak wrote:
>   There is a bikelane corrective for the tendency of
>through-going bicyclists to ride in Right Turn Only lanes.
>It is to put short bikelane markings to the left of the
>outside Right Turn Only lane stripe (it would be best
>to insert a drawing here to illustrate.  I regret I don't
>know how to do that on computer communication.)

>   I have seen in print these short bikelane markings
>called "slots."

Unfortunately, there's a tendency to accompany these
bike slots at intersections with bikelanes between
intersections.  I could support, or at least tolerate,
bike slots but for those other bike lanes which have
a "non-corrective" tendency for novice cyclists.

After years of being anti-bikelane here, I find myself
actually advocating one at a diagonal rail road crossing
where they finally made the pavement wide enough for a
bulbout to facilitate an out-of-flow swerve to approach
the tracks at a safer angle.  See my sketched in bike
lane on the new bulbout at:
http://cc.usu.edu/~bob/bike/pics/600w_rr_bulbout.jpg

Periodic Automated Message:

To change your delivery options, send a blank email to the corresponding address
shown below:
  Subscribe:    chainguard-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
  Unsubscribe:  chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  Switch to Digest Mode: chainguard-digest@yahoogroups.com
  Use Website Access/Hold Mode: chainguard-nomail@yahoogroups.com
  Normal Mode: chainguard-normal@yahoogroups.com

List manager(Jack Taylor): chainguard-owner@yahoogroups.com

Chainguard site: http://probicycle.com
Group pages (archives, etc):  http://yahoogroups.com/community/chainguard

==================================
THE CHAINGUARD LIST IS NOT INTENDED AS A CHAT ROOM OR BULLETIN BOARD FOR
BICYCLING CHIT-CHAT OR DISCUSSION OF BICYCLING EXPERIENCES.

The ONLY correct topic for posts to the Chainguard list is:

VEHICULAR CYCLING ADVOCACY ISSUES

That's ADVOCACY, with an emphasis on effective methods and ideas.
===================================

Chainguard is a forum for serious productive discussion and brainstorming by
vehicular cycling advocates of methods to best promote and protect vehicular
cycling.

The Chainguard list is for those who believe that bicyclists have the right,
should expect, and be prepared to demand, safe accommodation as vehicle
operators on EVERY road - the rights and concepts known as Vehicular Cycling.
The list is for those who have moved beyond debating vehicular-cycling rights as
compared to restricted lanes and separate pedestrian-bicycle facilities. If you
are using this list to debate the merits of Vehicular Cycling vs. "paint and
path" then you are on the wrong list and your posts will be deleted.


If you are an active vehicular cyclist or advocate, or someone wishing to learn
more about vehicular cycling and why we believe what we do, then stick around.

A final thought.  Like most any public gathering, this list has a wide range of
personalities and approaches to communication.  A select few have very little to
contribute, but do so with great generosity.  Their posts are often
line-by-line, even word-by-word, analyses of previous posts, seeking anything to
challenge and often reinterpreting the original author's meaning to accommodate
their own always self-righteous frequently fantasy-world viewpoints.   On most
any topic they will have thoughts to share and they must have the last word, so
please- for all our sakes give it to them immediately. They will never leave a
response unanswered and they communicate in a never-ending stream of disjointed
chat-room fragments. Do us all a favor and make an effort to ignore their posts
just as many of us have learned to do.  They are the yapping dogs of our online
neighborhood.

==================

Please use your real name when posting to the list, and not just a screen
name, email address or nickname. If you feel your views are so embarrassing to
yourself that you would rather remain "anonymouse" then you should post
elsewhere.

===========================
Why was my post rejected?

List activity is moderated using the following guidelines, however, exceptions
are based on individual note content and overall list activity.

All postings must be on topic and relevant to the discussion of vehicular
cycling advocacy. Postings which do not have direct bearing on the topic of
vehicular cycling advocacy will be deleted.

The list is not for discussion of cycling experiences unless somehow directly
related to ADVOCACY. This can include questions and discussion of proper VC
technique and principles which are to be advocated.

Continuing bickering between individuals will be deleted.  Do not impose your
ego on the other list subscribers. Summarize your viewpoint and take the rest to
personal email.

Posting activity is a maximum of three postings per day per subscriber.

Prolonged rants, flame-baiting, personal attacks, name calling, offensive
language, and any other pre-third-grade level communications will be deleted and
the member's subscription terminated.

Republishing copyrighted material, for example entire news articles, is
prohibited.  Use excerpts or links to copyrighted material.

=============================

Jack Taylor
Chainguard list moderator

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, calvin weeks <clwsdj@p...> wrote:
> You guys actually have time to blow one of these horns at people
> that crowd you. Did you ever think that handling one of these you
> have to take one hand off from the handlebar to blow this thing.
> just trying to understand thats all
>                 calvin   weeks

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Huffman" <doug.huffman@c...>
wrote:
> Or not...
>
> As mine is arranged, the 'button' is at my right thumb in my normal
> hand position,

The same was true with me when I used the Air Zound 2. With the pair
of FIAMM "Freeway Blasters" which I'm now using, the toggle switch is
even more comfortably-convenient, which I can easily cover, flip on,
or flip off with my right index finger in my normal handlebars-holding
position and grip. It's certainly more accessible than my rear brake
lever or rear derailleur shifter for my right hand, and it's certainly
more accessible than the typical horn-button areas of a motor vehicle
on its steering wheel. Of course, as soon as I flip the horn pair on,
I have my right hand fully available, just as if the horn were off. In
fact, sometimes the horns will be beeping longer than I would have
liked them to be, since I may need to multitask with my right hand to
brake, gear-shift, steer, turn-signal, or flip the bird before getting
a chance to shut the horns off.

I had needed to mix-and-match different electrical and mounting
components to use for the Freeway Blaster setup. The horn pair draws
10 amps of total current at 12 volts DC; I wired it with heavy-guage
wire and crimp connectors through a 12-volts-DC (a.k.a. "automotive"),
25-amps-maximum toggle switch, which included a mounting panel, and
fuse. In addition for the mounting, I used the bracket and nut
included with each Freeway Blaster, a U-lock carrying bracket, and
various nuts, bolts, and washers.

Andrew Smolik

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Elias Friedman <elipongo@...>
> Date: August 26, 2005 7:21:18 PM ADT
> To: bicyclecommuting@yahoogroups.com, bikemedic@...
>
> I thought that this might be of interest to some.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: . dkoloko <>
> Date: Aug 26, 2005 10:26 AM
> Subject: Your Support Needed
> To: ICEBIKE@...
>
> Chris Balish, Gannett Publications, cbalish@..., who is
> conducting a survey of bicycle commuters, is asking Consumers Union to
> initiate my idea of renaming their annual Consumers Reports Auto
> Issue, Personal Transportation, and devote 10 percent of the space to
> alternate transportation, such as bicycling and walking.
>
> You can add your support to this effort by writing Consumers Union,
> 101 Truman Ave, Yonkers, NY 01703, and by placing notices asking
> others to write Consumers Union to register their support for this
> idea. You cannot email Consumers Union at their website if you are not
> an online subscriber of Consumer Reports.
>
> Consumers Reports has a hard copy circulation of over four million,
> and an additional over 1.4 million online paid subscribers.
>
> Demetri

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

Your right Doug or not . It does not make sense .

Doug Huffman wrote:

> Or not...
>
> As mine is arranged, the 'button' is at my right thumb in my normal hand
> position,
>
>
> ----- Original Message in small part-----
> From: "calvin weeks" <clwsdj@...>
> To: <chainguard@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [CG] Re: Honks and yells - suggestions?
>
>
> > just trying to
> > understand thats all
> >                calvin   weeks
>
>
>
> To change your delivery options, send a blank email to the
> corresponding address shown below:
>   Subscribe:    chainguard-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Switch to Digest Mode: chainguard-digest@yahoogroups.com
>   Use Website Access/Hold Mode: chainguard-nomail@yahoogroups.com
>   Normal Mode: chainguard-normal@yahoogroups.com
> Mail the list manager(Jack Taylor): chainguard-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Chainguard site: http://probicycle.com
> To e-mail system:  http://yahoogroups.com/community/chainguard
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>     *  Visit your group "chainguard
>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chainguard>" on the web.
>
>     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>        chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or not...

As mine is arranged, the 'button' is at my right thumb in my normal hand
position,


----- Original Message in small part-----
From: "calvin weeks" <clwsdj@...>
To: <chainguard@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CG] Re: Honks and yells - suggestions?


> just trying to
> understand thats all
>                calvin   weeks

You guys actually have time to blow one of these horns at people that
crowd you. Did you ever think that handling one of these you have to
take one hand off from the handlebar to blow this thing. just trying to
understand thats all
                 calvin   weeks

Andrew Smolik wrote:

> --- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Ardelli" <gelfling@s...>
> wrote:
> > On Aug 22, 2005, at 10:04 PM, Andrew Smolik wrote:
> >
> > > I had used an Air Zound 2 horn from 1999 up until earlier this
> year,
> > > when I was really get sick of needing to stop and recharge it
> with air
> > > (using the hand floor pump which I was carrying on the bicycle)
> about
> > > two to three times per 20-mile round trip (around the city of
> Thousand
> > > Oaks, California) during peak traffic conditions. With the
> replacement
> > > tubing and pressure bottle which I was using, I was getting
> perhaps 6
> > > seconds of beeping total per air recharge.
> >
> > Why didn't you just get a replacement directly from the
> manufacturer?
> > The bottle on my Air Zound, which came with it, gives me a LOT more
> > capacity than that.
>
> I do remember that I used to be able to go for more bicycling time in
> given traffic conditions per bottle air recharge than I did when I
> discontinued using the Air Zound earlier this year. After my original
> (approximately half-liter, as I believe) pressure vessel with the Air
> Zound 2 had fatigued several years ago, I had started using one-liter
> Squirt soda bottles, which seemed to be of a somewhat-sturdier
> plastic than some other brands and sizes. The beeping capacity did
> increase somewhat. It was about a year ago when I was starting to
> notice the problems with the beeping capacity. There are three
> possible reasons of which I've thought:
>
> (1) The "O-ring" that creates the air seal when pressing the horn
> button was getting very mutilated from wear-and-tear, which I
> eventually replaced with a piece of an old inner tube that I Krazy-
> glued there. In either case, air may have been getting lost when
> beeping (although I'm pretty sure that air was not getting lost when
> the horn was idle, as in bottle or tubing air leaks).
>
> (2) After my most-recent polyurethane tubing replacement (which I
> ordered from deltacycle.com), it seemed that the horn volume (with
> the "volume control knob" no longer there) was slightly lower,
> probably due to the tube's inner diameter being smaller or tighter.
> Consequently, I may have needed to beep longer (hence draining more
> air) with this reduced volume in order to achieve the same effect as
> the previously shorter, louder beeps. I was too frequently not
> getting "results" from motorists upon beeping, certainly not like I
> do now with my "Freeway Blaster" horns.
>
> (3) With both myself and my bicycle in better shape than in previous
> years, I'm probably going at overall faster speeds, which is when
> other traffic is most likely to underestimate my speed grossly and
> try to cut me off in whatever way, hence requiring more horn-beeping
> by me. My loaded bicycle, own large size, usually-low pedaling
> cadence in usually-higher gears (considering all of the weight which
> I'm propelling), upright bicycling posture, and plain-clothes attire
> certainly all add to the cause of what frequently appears to be gross
> underestimation of my bicycling speed by others.
>
> In any case, I figured that upgrading to the "Freeway Blaster" horns
> and multipurpose "power station," with essentially no need
> ever
> to "conserve" my amount of beeping due to capacity (as long as I keep
> the battery charged-up whenever I have access to external 120-volt AC
> or 12-volt DC power) and with the on-off toggle switch (as opposed to
> push-release button), was a better long-term solution than buying
> another Air Zound horn.
>
> Andrew Smolik
>
>
>
>
>
> To change your delivery options, send a blank email to the
> corresponding address shown below:
>   Subscribe:    chainguard-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Switch to Digest Mode: chainguard-digest@yahoogroups.com
>   Use Website Access/Hold Mode: chainguard-nomail@yahoogroups.com
>   Normal Mode: chainguard-normal@yahoogroups.com
> Mail the list manager(Jack Taylor): chainguard-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Chainguard site: http://probicycle.com
> To e-mail system:  http://yahoogroups.com/community/chainguard
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Bicycle
>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Bicycle&w1=Bicycle&c=1&s=13&.sig=ZPCIFU1yxr\
eYHY4msTF0-A>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>     *  Visit your group "chainguard
>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chainguard>" on the web.
>
>     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>        chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That was no "gentleman."

On Aug 23, 2005, at 7:18 AM, shane foran wrote:

> I was involved in an incident where a motorised gentleman decided to
> try and overtake me on the inside while making a turn. We ended up
> having a pretty confrontational discussion about the pro's, con's and
> legalities of this particualar manouevre.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In chainguard@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Ardelli" <gelfling@s...>
wrote:
> On Aug 22, 2005, at 10:04 PM, Andrew Smolik wrote:
>
> > I had used an Air Zound 2 horn from 1999 up until earlier this
year,
> > when I was really get sick of needing to stop and recharge it
with air
> > (using the hand floor pump which I was carrying on the bicycle)
about
> > two to three times per 20-mile round trip (around the city of
Thousand
> > Oaks, California) during peak traffic conditions. With the
replacement
> > tubing and pressure bottle which I was using, I was getting
perhaps 6
> > seconds of beeping total per air recharge.
>
> Why didn't you just get a replacement directly from the
manufacturer?
> The bottle on my Air Zound, which came with it, gives me a LOT more
> capacity than that.

I do remember that I used to be able to go for more bicycling time in
given traffic conditions per bottle air recharge than I did when I
discontinued using the Air Zound earlier this year. After my original
(approximately half-liter, as I believe) pressure vessel with the Air
Zound 2 had fatigued several years ago, I had started using one-liter
Squirt soda bottles, which seemed to be of a somewhat-sturdier
plastic than some other brands and sizes. The beeping capacity did
increase somewhat. It was about a year ago when I was starting to
notice the problems with the beeping capacity. There are three
possible reasons of which I've thought:

(1) The "O-ring" that creates the air seal when pressing the horn
button was getting very mutilated from wear-and-tear, which I
eventually replaced with a piece of an old inner tube that I Krazy-
glued there. In either case, air may have been getting lost when
beeping (although I'm pretty sure that air was not getting lost when
the horn was idle, as in bottle or tubing air leaks).

(2) After my most-recent polyurethane tubing replacement (which I
ordered from deltacycle.com), it seemed that the horn volume (with
the "volume control knob" no longer there) was slightly lower,
probably due to the tube's inner diameter being smaller or tighter.
Consequently, I may have needed to beep longer (hence draining more
air) with this reduced volume in order to achieve the same effect as
the previously shorter, louder beeps. I was too frequently not
getting "results" from motorists upon beeping, certainly not like I
do now with my "Freeway Blaster" horns.

(3) With both myself and my bicycle in better shape than in previous
years, I'm probably going at overall faster speeds, which is when
other traffic is most likely to underestimate my speed grossly and
try to cut me off in whatever way, hence requiring more horn-beeping
by me. My loaded bicycle, own large size, usually-low pedaling
cadence in usually-higher gears (considering all of the weight which
I'm propelling), upright bicycling posture, and plain-clothes attire
certainly all add to the cause of what frequently appears to be gross
underestimation of my bicycling speed by others.

In any case, I figured that upgrading to the "Freeway Blaster" horns
and multipurpose "power station," with essentially no need
ever
to "conserve" my amount of beeping due to capacity (as long as I keep
the battery charged-up whenever I have access to external 120-volt AC
or 12-volt DC power) and with the on-off toggle switch (as opposed to
push-release button), was a better long-term solution than buying
another Air Zound horn.

Andrew Smolik

On Aug 24, 2005, at 6:37 PM, JimBaross@... wrote:

> And this outspoken women has another approach...
>
> http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=12964

Yes.  A totally illegal one.  If I'm not mistaken, DELIBERATELY holding
up traffic like that, no matter the type of vehicle you're using, is
illegal.

I can understand her frustration... but she's not going to get very far
with her cause if she ends up giving cyclists a bad name.

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

On Aug 24, 2005, at 12:27 AM, Fred Oswald wrote:

> I like to carry a few old computer cards clipped together for note
> taking -- a "jerk book".  (I have a handlebar bag for the cards and a
> pencil.)  When I have a place where I can stop safely, I write down
> the license no. and vehicle description and try to be obvious what I
> am doing.  I find that jerks get very nervous if they see me doing
> this.

I don't carry any kind of notebook, but my cell phone DOES have the
ability to record "voice notes" when you press a button on the side.
Thus far, I haven't had to use it, but I've often thought it would be
useful in recording necessary information on an incident.  It also has
the further advantage of looking like I'm talking on a walkie talkie.
With any luck, the perpetrator will be fooled into thinking I'm a
plain-clothes COP requesting backup... :P

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

On Aug 23, 2005, at 7:18 AM, shane foran wrote:

> I was involved in an incident where a motorised gentleman decided to
> try and overtake me on the inside while making a turn. We ended up
> having a pretty confrontational discussion about the pro's, con's and
> legalities of this particualar manouevre.  He had his window down
> shouting at me and my eyes fell on his keys dangling from the
> ignition.  Without stopping to think, I reached out, took the keys
> from the ignition and threw them as hard as I could over an adjacent
> wall.
>
> I then proceeded to continue on my journey.

In the same situation, I might have done ALMOST the same thing...
except I would have KEPT the keys (as a way of keeping him from driving
off) and called the police.  Considering the situation, I think I could
have made a decent case for my taking his keys being self defense to
prevent him from assaulting me with his vehicle once the police DID
arrive.

Truth be told, this is a fantasy I've had about dealing with DLR 267
(the Nova Scotia license plate number of a wingnut who did something
similar to me in the past) using this method.  ;)

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

--- darryl skrabak <dskrabak@...> wrote:


> It is to put short bikelane markings to the left of
> the
> outside Right Turn Only lane stripe (it would be
> best
> to insert a drawing here to illustrate.  I regret I
> don't
> know how to do that on computer communication.)
>

I believe the town of Madison in Wisconsin has used a
similar "bikelane to left of rightmost lane"
arrangement along some bus lanes.

Later

SF



___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 06:59:52 -0300, "John A. Ardelli"
<gelfling@...> said:

> On Aug 22, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Lauren Cooper (DancesWithCars) wrote:
>
> > Call out "Hi Ralph!" as if you know them and think the honking is a
> > hello.
>
> Around here, that's easy to determine.  If it's a long blast, it's NOT
> a hello.  If it's a quick "TOOT TOOT," it's the motorist equivalent of
> a friendly wave.  ;)

Like Lauren, I assume all honks, whether "bee-beep" or "HOOOOOOOOOOOONK"
are friendly, and I respond with a friendly wave and smile.  Even if not
true, it's a convenient fiction.

There is a bikelane corrective for the tendency of
through-going bicyclists to ride in Right Turn Only lanes.
It is to put short bikelane markings to the left of the
outside Right Turn Only lane stripe (it would be best
to insert a drawing here to illustrate.  I regret I don't
know how to do that on computer communication.)

    I have seen in print these short bikelane markings
called "slots."

    I first saw one these slots in Palo Alto in the early
1980s.  Later the California State Highway Department
applied them at some freeway onramps.  More recently
slots have been added to a few intersections on Market
Street in San Francisco.

    I dislike bikelanes in general but must admit the slots
do an admirable job of guiding the average bozo bicyclist
out of Right Turn Only lanes at intersections -- except,
of course, when the bozo actually does turn right.

          -- darryl skrabak
             San Francisco

On 8/25/05, Fred Oswald <f.oswald@...> wrote:
> Steve wrote:
>
> >Many, perhaps most, cyclists simply ride
> >straight through in the RTO lane/shoulder, especially where the
> >intersections are unsignalized. At signals, many cyclists stay to
> >the right and deal with right-turn traffic conflicts when they start
> >up. Others pull over to the left side of the RTO lane or stop on the
> >lane line beside the through traffic after riding up to the stop
> >line. Only a few like myself merge into the through lane and queue
> >up.
>
> I have seen this too.  Last week, I was riding on Ohio 17 near the
> Cleveland Airport (4 lanes plus occasional LT lane).  As I approached an
> "almost freeway" that leads to the Airport (OH 237), I saw an obvious
> novice ahead of me hugging the curb.
>
> As he got to a short diverge for the 237 ramp, he started turning on to the
> ramp, then stopped to let traffic clear.  During this time, I caught up to
> him riding in the middle of the right lane (I had moved left as I
> approached the diverge to avoid right hooks).  I tried to explain lane
> position to him, suggesting he ride in the right tire track.  He listened,
> but as I pulled ahead of him, I looked back and noticed that he was hugging
> the curb again.
>
> Oh well.
>
> Fred
>
> Fred Oswald, League Cycling Instructor #947, <f.oswald "at" earthlink.net>
> See cycling information at http://www.crankmail.com/bike-res.html and
> http://www.geocities.com/fredoswald/
> Help fix LAB:  http://www.labreform.org
>
>
>
>
>
> To change your delivery options, send a blank email to the corresponding
address shown below:
>   Subscribe:    chainguard-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  chainguard-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Switch to Digest Mode: chainguard-digest@yahoogroups.com
>   Use Website Access/Hold Mode: chainguard-nomail@yahoogroups.com
>   Normal Mode: chainguard-normal@yahoogroups.com
> Mail the list manager(Jack Taylor): chainguard-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Chainguard site: http://probicycle.com
> To e-mail system:  http://yahoogroups.com/community/chainguard
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Use a two liter soda bottle.  The coupling threads match.  It weighs
insignificantly more.

The manufacturer demonstrates its ignorance with his cautions against doing
so.  A half-liter soda bottle and a two liter soda bottle are both designed
to hold the same pressurized solution and the (design) stresses on the
larger bottle are larger - likely determining the standards to which the
smaller bottle is designed.

On Aug 22, 2005, at 10:04 PM, Andrew Smolik wrote:

> I had used an Air Zound 2 horn from 1999 up until earlier this year,
> when I was really get sick of needing to stop and recharge it with air
> (using the hand floor pump which I was carrying on the bicycle) about
> two to three times per 20-mile round trip (around the city of Thousand
> Oaks, California) during peak traffic conditions. With the replacement
> tubing and pressure bottle which I was using, I was getting perhaps 6
> seconds of beeping total per air recharge.

Why didn't you just get a replacement directly from the manufacturer?
The bottle on my Air Zound, which came with it, gives me a LOT more
capacity than that.

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

On Aug 22, 2005, at 4:23 PM, Lauren Cooper (DancesWithCars) wrote:

> Call out "Hi Ralph!" as if you know them and think the honking is a
> hello.

Around here, that's easy to determine.  If it's a long blast, it's NOT
a hello.  If it's a quick "TOOT TOOT," it's the motorist equivalent of
a friendly wave.  ;)

While Riin was here on her vacation, she didn't know this.  Someone
passed by us with a "TOOT TOOT" and she said "F*ck you!"

Fortunately, it wasn't loud enough for the driver to hear because it
was the Velo Cape Breton rides captain greeting us... ;)

I can understand Riin's reaction, though.  From what she tells me, a
horn honk in Ann Arbor ALWAYS means the motorist has something nasty to
say.  :/

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

On Aug 21, 2005, at 8:12 PM, Rich Points wrote:

> I was dismayed but not surprised to see that Michigan is failing
> miserably when it comes to cyclist rights.

I know.  That really worries me, too, as my second life partner is from
there and gets around exclusively by bicycle.  :(

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

Steve wrote:

>Many, perhaps most, cyclists simply ride
>straight through in the RTO lane/shoulder, especially where the
>intersections are unsignalized. At signals, many cyclists stay to
>the right and deal with right-turn traffic conflicts when they start
>up. Others pull over to the left side of the RTO lane or stop on the
>lane line beside the through traffic after riding up to the stop
>line. Only a few like myself merge into the through lane and queue
>up.

I have seen this too.  Last week, I was riding on Ohio 17 near the
Cleveland Airport (4 lanes plus occasional LT lane).  As I approached an
"almost freeway" that leads to the Airport (OH 237), I saw an obvious
novice ahead of me hugging the curb.

As he got to a short diverge for the 237 ramp, he started turning on to the
ramp, then stopped to let traffic clear.  During this time, I caught up to
him riding in the middle of the right lane (I had moved left as I
approached the diverge to avoid right hooks).  I tried to explain lane
position to him, suggesting he ride in the right tire track.  He listened,
but as I pulled ahead of him, I looked back and noticed that he was hugging
the curb again.

Oh well.

Fred

Fred Oswald, League Cycling Instructor #947, <f.oswald "at" earthlink.net>
See cycling information at http://www.crankmail.com/bike-res.html and
http://www.geocities.com/fredoswald/
Help fix LAB:  http://www.labreform.org

John Ardelli wrote:

>I am interested in improving my local laws, but your project seems to
>be aimed SPECIFICALLY at the United States.  I'm from Canada.
>
>However, if you should ever decide to expand it to include Canadian
>provinces as well, let me know.  I'll be happy to provide you with the
>relevant sections of the Nova Scotia Motor Vehicle Act.  ;)

Yes, we have enough to do to cover the 50 states, plus possibly Puerto
Rico.  However, you or any other Canadian are certainly welcome to use our
material as a model or as a starting point.  Likewise for our British
friends, etc.  You have a huge advantage in having only a few provinces
(don't remember how many at the moment).

Best wishes,
Fred

Fred Oswald, LCI #947, <f.oswald "at" earthlink.net>
See cycling information at http://www.crankmail.com/bike-res.html and
http://www.geocities.com/fredoswald/
Help fix LAB:  http://www.labreform.org

And this outspoken women has another approach...

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/full_story.asp?StoryNumber=12964

An old report I found in my files:

[LAB] Missouri bikers are doing something about dangerous drivers!
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 19:11:43 -0500  from Bob Boyce

I just visited the Missouri Bicycle Federation website and was blown away
by the fact that they have the chutzpah to actually write motorists who
endanger bicyclists!! This is a great idea! I wish the League of American
Bicyclists had a similar concern for bicyclists' rights and safety!!

Here's the description of the program from their website www.mobikefed.org

Bicyclists May Fight Back
Picture the perfect ride on a gorgeous Missouri morning spoiled by a
frighteningly close encounter with a motorist who is angry just to see a
bicyclist on the road. In the past, many of us were frustrated by our
inability to take self-protective action or to incite others to protect us
unless we were severely damaged by the encounter.
The Missouri Bicycle Federation offers its members an option that can be
very satisfying...Report that safety threat! In an effort to make our state
a safer place to ride a bicycle, MBF has established a program in which the
details of the incident are reported to us and a form letter accompanied by
a copy of the Missouri State Statutes regarding bicycles will be sent to
the
offending motorist.

In addition, the offender's name and address will be keep on file in case
the unsafe action is repeated and legal action becomes necessary. The names
of both the offending motorist and the reporting bicyclist are kept
confidential.

Details of the incident should include: motorist license tag number,
description of the vehicle, description of the driver, date (day of week,
month, day, year), time (approximately), location (street and city),
description of motorist behavior that was considered unsafe to the
bicyclist(s), and name and contact information of the reporting bicyclist.

MBF members (including members of affiliate clubs) may send the details of
the incident to

Morgan Bearden,
MBF Motorist Contact Program
phone: 573-364-1695
email: morgan@...


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com