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#4154 From: "lorraine butcher" <brownbelt1111111@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 9:53 am
Subject: Re: hey rick
brownbelt111...
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--- In brownbelt1111111@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Deborah R. Williams"
<taesujutsu@...> wrote:
>
> Hi JW,
>
> Yous said:   "you are correct a complete style would have
everything.
> but its hard
>   to find a complete style taught as such."
>
> LOL, no it isn't...come train with me for a week ,adn the corss
> training will be a thing of the past.  :^)
>
> With that said though, you are correct, to many schools today to
teach
> the sport, and not the true art.
>
> Peace,
> tae
>
hey tae yes there are still good teachers out there like you and
rick and others but when you look at martial arts as a whole.the
sports schools far out number the schools that try to stay true to
the art.

#4153 From: "lorraine butcher" <brownbelt1111111@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 9:49 am
Subject: hey james
brownbelt111...
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this is yahoo.and they are always going to goof something up.we cant
controll how many times yahoo sends the same post. all we can do is
delete them from the boards.witch we have been doing

#4152 From: "Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc" <tutor2000@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 8:33 am
Subject: Re: hey rick
tutor2000
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Appears to be another tangent for the discussion
 
What do you consider a complete martial art to be?
 
Rick 

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----- Original Message ----
From: "junkredmailbox@..." <junkredmailbox@...>
To: brownbelt1111111@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 3:12:32 PM
Subject: RE: [brownbelt1111111] hey rick

But who says it is "complete" you will get only his or her ideals and thoughts. Where someone esle might have different views and points.
"john wagner" <animal9990@...> wrote:

>you are correct a complete style would have everything. but its hard
>to find a complete style taught as such.too much sport is taught. so
>you have to cross train to get back what was lost.
>



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#4151 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 3:35 am
Subject: Re: TOO MANY EMAILS(James)
taesujutsu
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we do nto control you flow of e-mail...you do.
Go to the very top of you page where it says "edit membership"
When you get to the page that explains your membership, and your
preferences, hit the "daily digest".  that will stop the flow of e-
mails to you box.

Peace,
Tae

#4150 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 3:33 am
Subject: Re: hey rick
taesujutsu
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Hi JW,

Yous said:   "you are correct a complete style would have everything.
but its hard
   to find a complete style taught as such."

LOL, no it isn't...come train with me for a week ,adn the corss
training will be a thing of the past.  :^)

With that said though, you are correct, to many schools today to teach
the sport, and not the true art.

Peace,
tae

#4149 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 3:31 am
Subject: Re: oppions,please
taesujutsu
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TYhe only reason people cross train these days is because it is a
sport more than the self defense sytems they use to be..so with that
in mind they yeah to get that trophy they probably would have to corss
train.

However, those really seriuos about the martila ART, and not the
SPORT, should find a teacher  who teaches the old way, and a system
that has much more self defense in mind than sport.

Peace,
tae

#4148 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 3:29 am
Subject: Re: oppions,please
taesujutsu
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Hi JW,
When talking aobuty "compelte systems" we are not talking aobut how a
person teaches.  we are talking about, one that contains actaully two
different sytems in one.  IN other waord they contain also
a "compelte" self defense.  A practical martial art, and not a sport
martial art claiming to be self defense.

With a complete system you don't need to cross train, becasue all
aspesct are there, especially the self defense..however, not to many
systems teach it that way anymore.  one thing is as you have seen
here, to many people think martial arts must be a game or "fun" to
keep people interested, or they will break down the hard training
because they would loose to many people if it is to hard.

Peace,
tae

#4147 From: junkredmailbox@...
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:12 am
Subject: RE: hey rick
greadysmurf
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But who says it is "complete" you will get only his or her ideals and thoughts.
Where someone esle might have different views and points.
"john wagner" <animal9990@...> wrote:

>you are correct a complete style would have everything. but its hard
>to find a complete style taught as such.too much sport is taught. so
>you have to cross train to get back what was lost.
>

#4146 From: "james mills" <bigjim43@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 1:25 am
Subject: TOO MANY EMAILS
bigjim370
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Please dont send me
many emails about the
same topic anymore just
one thank you

#4145 From: junkredmailbox@...
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 12:51 am
Subject: Re: oppions,please
greadysmurf
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I believe that they Should cross train. Look at any good athlete do they have
the same coach all their life. How did the get so good.  Because they work with
different experts in their feild....Each one brings something different
Chris

"Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc" <tutor2000@...> wrote:

>Would not a "complete" style have all the facets required so cross training
would not be necessary?
>
>Rick
>This signature file is a legal part of this message and is not to be removed or
altered
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>http://kirkhamsebooks.com/MartialArts/StrikingPower.htm
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: john wagner <animal9990@...>
>To: brownbelt1111111@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:45:44 AM
>Subject: [brownbelt1111111] oppions,please
>
>What creates a better fighter? A "complete" style or cross training?
>Assuming that said complete style is actually good, I could see it
>having the advantage of training with synergy. That way, it's
>guaranteed that the practitioner's techniques wouldn't become
>compartmentalized, and flow naturally between eachother.
>
>On the other hand, cross training supplies more depth in each facet of
>combat that one trains in than -- say -- training in one style that
>encompasses multiple ranges of fighting
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

#4144 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 12:53 am
Subject: hey rick
animal9990
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you are correct a complete style would have everything. but its hard
to find a complete style taught as such.too much sport is taught. so
you have to cross train to get back what was lost.

#4143 From: "Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc" <tutor2000@...>
Date: Thu Feb 7, 2008 12:45 am
Subject: Re: oppions,please
tutor2000
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Would not a "complete" style have all the facets required so cross training would not be necessary?
 
Rick 

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----- Original Message ----
From: john wagner <animal9990@...>
To: brownbelt1111111@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2008 11:45:44 AM
Subject: [brownbelt1111111] oppions,please

What creates a better fighter? A "complete" style or cross training?
Assuming that said complete style is actually good, I could see it
having the advantage of training with synergy. That way, it's
guaranteed that the practitioner's techniques wouldn't become
compartmentalized, and flow naturally between eachother.

On the other hand, cross training supplies more depth in each facet of
combat that one trains in than -- say -- training in one style that
encompasses multiple ranges of fighting




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#4142 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2008 9:49 pm
Subject: question
animal9990
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What is the difference between Kenpo and Kempo?

#4141 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2008 9:45 pm
Subject: oppions,please
animal9990
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What creates a better fighter? A "complete" style or cross training?
Assuming that said complete style is actually good, I could see it
having the advantage of training with synergy. That way, it's
guaranteed that the practitioner's techniques wouldn't become
compartmentalized, and flow naturally between eachother.

On the other hand, cross training supplies more depth in each facet of
combat that one trains in than -- say -- training in one style that
encompasses multiple ranges of fighting

#4131 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Wed Feb 6, 2008 10:17 am
Subject: so
animal9990
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what do you think of the new home pic?

#4130 From: "lelitha1022" <lelitha1022@...>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 3:58 pm
Subject: A Must Watch Indian Martial Art, Kalaripayattu
lelitha1022
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Kalaripayattu, one of the oldest martial art is a unique system of
self defense originated from Kerala,India.The fighters master the art
through a systematic and vigorous training and therefore cultivating
mental alertness and agility.

#4129 From: "Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc" <tutor2000@...>
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 8:45 am
Subject: Isometric Exercises to Increase Striking Power in Martial Arts by J. Richard Kirkham
tutor2000
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Isometric Exercises to Increase Striking Power in Martial Arts by J. Richard Kirkham

Isometrics is an old often forgotten method of increasing muscular strength. It has several advantages for increasing a martial artist or self-defense practitioner's striking power as well....

http://kirkhamsebooks.com/MartialArts/MartialArtsArticles/Isometrics_ma.htm


#4128 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 11:14 pm
Subject: Re: hi
taesujutsu
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Nothing wrong with that, but the schools I went to didn't do that.
Remember thugh that was years ago  :^)....things have changed, not all
for the better.

What the schools(commercial scholls) do here now is sometimes
confusing even to the studetns, however, the "backyard" dojos, still
teach the way I was taught.

Peace,
tae

#4127 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 5:20 pm
Subject: sorry
animal9990
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about all those duplicate posts but yahoo must be having a problem

#4125 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 5:10 pm
Subject: home pic
animal9990
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i have temorly up dated the home pic.as soon as i get a cammera ill
upload a shot of my own for the perminet home pic. but until then im
using one of the suggestions of a group member

#4121 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: here is a topic
animal9990
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--- In brownbelt1111111@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Deborah R. Williams"
<taesujutsu@...> wrote:
>
> Hi bradah Rick,
>
>
> You said:  "Well, the human body only moves and breaks certain ways.
I
> believe all good combative martial arts eventually arrive at the
same
> conclusions. It's the teaching methods that one may find unique."
>
> Thank you very much...I indeed concur.
>
> Peace,
> Tae
>
so do i

#4120 From: "john wagner" <animal9990@...>
Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:24 pm
Subject: hi
animal9990
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sorry  that i havent been able to join in group for a while. internet
problems. hey tae, the schools i went to just called you by your first
name.until you reached brownbelt. mr,mrs or ms. was your first title.
then when you got your blackbelt.it was sensi

#4119 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Sat Feb 2, 2008 4:32 am
Subject: Re: New Chick Female Combat Blog: "Foreign Exchange!"
taesujutsu
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--- In brownbelt1111111@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Deborah R. Williams"
<taesujutsu@...> wrote:
I'm sorry Chick,
I forget taht the new folks don't know my dry sense of humor yet...the
statement "you point is?" was meant as a joke. Just something I picked
up from a friend of mine.

Peace,
Tae

#4118 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:35 pm
Subject: Re: New Chick Female Combat Blog: "Foreign Exchange!"
taesujutsu
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Hi chick,


Verbal, and actaul is not the same.  You point is?

A person who sees a technique someone else does, and decides to go
home and try it, is not trained in that technique..and with some
techniques that can be dangerous.

Such as pressure points, proper joint locks, and even how to kick
properly, to insure you don't break you foot or toes.  Same goes for
punches, and blocks.

Just looking at a technique, doesn't mean a person knows squat about
it...as in the proper usage of  it. That is why  basics no matter
what it is  in,  must be known before a person can claim to be such
and such.  Heck when I trained full contact I trained with a boxer,
but I would not ever say I AM A BOXER....becasue training with a
boxer to learn a boxers hands, doesn't mean I actually know how to
box...only how to apply it to what I already know.  Just looking at a
gun, and seeing a person use it, doesn't mean a person can jsut go
out and shoot at anything that comes along, again they must(or
should), know the basics which include gun safety.

I have freinds who are boxers now, and I know from watching them,
that it is much more than just throwing a punch.

A perosn can not know the claim to be a martial artist of any kind,
unless they have actaully taken the time to study that art, and the
basics....the So called MMA in the area( again note I am talking
aobut MY area), do  not know the basics, and some have never set foot
in a martial arts studio...that is what I am talking about.
I am not saying that MMA are nto good at waht they have chosen to do,
only that they should never call themselves MMA, or martial artists
unless they have actually studied the martial arts.

It is one thing to say you are a martial artist, it is antoehr to
actually put in the time leraning one.

Peace,
Tae

#4117 From: Bguy <Baopiguy@...>
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: Re: here is a topic(please let me be perfectly clear)
baopiguy
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Nicely put!

Dr. Deborah R. Williams wrote:

When I am talking about Brown belts not teaching, I am only talking
about the tradtioanl styles.
I have seen in some of the tradtioanl systmes the best techniques
left for these ranks as far as basics. To let a brwon belt teach
these systems before they understand all of the basics the systems
have would not be a good idea.

As I stated in the post to rick, it is not something I agree with,
because I feel they hold to much out just to keep a student coming
back, but that is the way those teachers run those systems, adn i
feel it should be respected.

The main point is though, is that we have folks who have NO BASIC
knowledge in the martial arts, going around claiming to be MMA. How
can they claim something they know nothing aobut.

Even in boxing a person to really claim they are a boxer, would have
to have the basic knowledge of boxing. Basics are the key in
everything, whetehr it be martial arts or boxing or firing a gun.

Where do basics begin and advanced levels start? IN the tradtional
systems that is clear. In the more innovative systems, a white, and
yellow belt is basic, adn the intermediate, and advanced go from
there.

In short folks it depends on the system, and how it is taught.
Whetehr or not a teacher is holding back for the sake of making
moeny, or whetehr they are wantign to teach real self defense, so
their students do not have to be a green belt or above, before they
can defend themselves.

It goes back to the old thing of "are you teaching a sport, or
tteaching to live".

Still all in all, BASICS must be tuaght somewhere or the person
cannot say they are a certian thing. Hodgepodge is alright for some,
but a really good basic knowledege is better.

Peace,
tae


#4116 From: Chick Dubinsky <chickdubinsky@...>
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 5:41 pm
Subject: New Chick Female Combat Blog: "Foreign Exchange!"
chickdubinsky
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Hi,
 
Please check out my new female combat blog entry, "Foreign Exchange!" at:
 
 
See ya!
 
Chick
 


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#4115 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 1:54 pm
Subject: Re: here is a topic(please let me be perfectly clear)
taesujutsu
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When I am talking about Brown belts not teaching, I am only talking
about the tradtioanl styles.
I have seen in some of the tradtioanl systmes the best techniques
left for these ranks as far as basics.  To let a brwon belt teach
these systems before they understand all of the basics the systems
have would not be a good idea.

As I stated in the post to rick, it is not something I agree with,
because I feel they hold to much out just to keep a student coming
back, but that is the way those teachers run those systems, adn i
feel it should be respected.

The main point is though, is that we have folks who have NO BASIC
knowledge in the martial arts, going around claiming to be MMA.  How
can they claim something they know nothing aobut.

Even in boxing a person to really claim they are a boxer, would have
to have the basic knowledge of boxing.   Basics are the key in
everything, whetehr it be martial arts or boxing or firing a gun.

Where do basics begin and advanced levels start?  IN the tradtional
systems that is clear.  In the more innovative systems, a white, and
yellow belt is basic, adn the intermediate, and advanced go from
there.

In short folks it depends on the system, and how it is taught.
Whetehr or not a teacher is holding back for the sake of making
moeny, or whetehr they are wantign to teach real self defense, so
their students do not have to be a green belt or above, before they
can defend themselves.

It goes back to the old thing of "are you teaching a sport, or
tteaching to live".

Still all in all, BASICS must be tuaght somewhere or the person
cannot say they are a certian thing.  Hodgepodge is alright for some,
but a really good basic knowledege is better.

Peace,
tae

#4114 From: "Dr. Deborah Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: Re: here is a topic
taesujutsu
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Hi Rick, I think i need to be more clear about what i am talking aobut.  :^)  Especailly since I know of at least three brown belts who have extremely execellent self defense systems.
 
If you are talking aobut strictly self defense systems I agree .
however, in the traditioanl systems there are things in the basics that are not taught until the brown or red belt level.
 
Now do I agree with that?  Obviuosly not, since as I as stated I know of three brown belts who teach and are very good at what they do, yet they teach strictly self defense.
 
as far as the traditional, if it is the purpose of feeling like people can not handle more than a certian amount of knowledge, I can see a brown belt not being able to teach that system until black belt level.  after all that is the way it was set up to begin with.  I sometimes believe they held out certian thigns just to make it longer. 
 
I am in no way talking aobut people who teach the self defense systems..I am only talking aobut a person who wants to teach systmes like Shot-kan, Tang Soo Do, and the such as those systems are.  Not the innovative teachers I know personally like you, JW, and others who have gone one step further to analyze what they teach, and not just teach blindly what they are taught.
 
Hope that strightens it out a litttle.  I know for a fact that you, JW, and others out here have execellent self defense systems.  And no in that case I do nto believe that anyone has to be at a BB level to teach it.  again, I was talking aobut the traditional systmes, and how they are laid out.
 
Peace,
tae

"


"LIfe is short, live it wisely."

Dr. Deborah R. Williams
Founder-Tae Su Jutsu
GA. State Representative- Unified Martial Arts Federation
U.S. Director- Practical Martial Arts
Board Member- Netwrok of Martial Arts
Member-International Black Dragon Kung Fu Society of Healing and Combat Arts


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#4113 From: "Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc" <tutor2000@...>
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 8:14 am
Subject: Re: Re: here is a topic
tutor2000
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My point isn't about Grandmasters.  It is about the fact that if a
Brown belt has all of the basics than they could open their own
school..however, they don't. 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------
 
I've seen brown belts that were better teachers and martial artists than black belts. To me the whole subjective by school or style belt system is moot
 
Rick

#4112 From: "Dr. Deborah R. Williams" <taesujutsu@...>
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 5:41 am
Subject: Re: here is a topic
taesujutsu
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Here is antoher case though of different ways for different people.
NO right or wrong...let me get that straight now, since some took it
the wrong way on the last discussion.  :^)

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