Well I tried my brand black biothane bitless bridle on my 5 year old
green mare, and she hated it! There was smoke coming out of her ears.
She was so mad! She really thinks she is a princess, but has been
really lovely in a rubber snaffle.
I have ridden lots of green horses, I do not have heavy hands. I was
trying to ride with a light touch. She is kind of a hot little number,
a why walk when you can run type, She seem to totally resent the
control I had over her. I was able to control her, but she was not
happy about that.  We started off down the road after getting her
quieted down a bit and she was fine. Maybe I just need to lounge her a
bit before I ride her?
Any advice appreciated. I am thinking about going back to the rubber
snaffle for schooling at least, maybe just keep the bitless for trail
rides.

Aaaaah... so refreshing! You said a lot more than many people will
even realize!

Thank you, Sheila.

Michael

Ya know, I've never liked to so openly debate (posted on the web!)
the differences in one kind of product from another kind of product.
I'm often tempted to, but refrain.  Not tonight.  I'm in the mood for
gab...so if you don't mind a long winded opinion...sit back, read on.

Take it or leave it, its just that simple.  But for those interested
in a 'host' of opinion...here's but one.

I have tried two types of bitless bridles.
Let me tell you immediately that I STRONGLY ADVOCATE Dr. Cooks bridle.
I am a Canadian Distributor for the Cook Bridle.
I am a distributor not for the sake of being a distributor, but
because I believe in this bridle..STRONLY.
As for who's sueing who and why....does it matter to your horse?
Focus on what matters to the horse and you will go far.

Though the design of the Nurtural and Cook bridles appear
similiar...they are far from similiar....in my opinion!  As for the
Spirit Bridle...no opinion 'as of yet'.

But I did order a Nurtural, I was curious.
I tested the Nurtural, cause I can.

  I did not find the control the same in my evaluation of the Nurtural
and Cook.  There is definitely more control in the Nurtural bridle
for riders/trainers IF YOU don't mind exacting MORE pressure on the
horse.

Regarding my horse's experience: Prince has worked 2 years in Dr.
Cooks ... when I interrupted happiness and placed a Nurtural on his
delicate head.

For this older horse already seasoned & well schooled via Dr. Cook's
Bitless the difference was quite noteable in clearly recognized
stresses and diminished deameanor as he clearly attempted to
comprehend WHY he was suddenly receiving more communication  or
persuasion then normal and of course more pressure than required.

In a second horse, my young horse receiving graduated lessons via Dr.
Cook's Bitless the difference was much more apparent. A young horse,
new to advanced training is less tolerant than the seasoned horse, so
he is more sensitive in every issue of his schooling.  The young
horse immediately showed signs of distress from the added pressure
and for a moment I think he felt quite betrayed!

Both horses felt claustrophobic.  Both horses had hair rubbed off
their noses from the rubberized noseband....and NO, I was not holding
the reins with a lot of contact.  Lets face it, rubber does not
belong on a horses face.

Also the buckles were not as well made as Dr. Cooks.  And the
nurtural had plastic keepers for its straps ends...so what is up with
that?

Prior to trying the Nurtural I wrote the following to a customer that
had received a document from the Nurtural company.  This document,
pointed out differences in the two bridles.  'Cook vrs. Nurtural'.
That document also provided a link to an online page for Horses in
Canada.  Within that link, a few lines from a woman who tested both
bridles and presented her conclusion.

I decided that such a versus this, and versus that, requires more
than one opinion.  So I put on my crown, raised my ceptor and drew a
conclusion of my own.  Below is what I wrote to my client.

Please keep in mind that I fairly tried both bridles.  Also keep in
mind that I am a strong advocate for Dr. Robert Cook and that is not
about to change.  But my opinion and recomendation remain a fair!
First I think it is quite possible that the Nurtural bridle has
extra 'holding power' because:

- rubberized noseband (sticks)

- fixed crownpiece (holds)

I will contend that 'fixed' means no movement and have to question
whether this will cause 'irritation' and an 'unnecessary' degree of
pressure on the nose area.  With the rubberized noseband, even though
the bridle is bitless, I sense that I would be trading off one kind
of pain (the bit) for another kind of pain (a fixed/rubberized
noseband), which may I add an after thought is that a (hackamore)
also has a fixed nosebands. As for the 'fixed crownpiece' I see it as
the 'SOLID post' that the horses head is tied to, the fixed
crownpiece giving more umpff to the already 'locked and loaded'
noseband.

The whole idea of gentle persuasion is lost.  In my experience with
saddle fit, we would never recommend any sort of rubberized or
sticking saddle pad because we want the saddle to find its place and
settle. If the saddle is not afforded this opportunity I am certain
that pain will be experienced.

The nutural is bitless yes. But it is not entirely painless. The nose
piece can cause pain, (not the same degree of pain as a bit, but
still pain) and FREEDOM FROM PAIN was my primary determining factor
when I decided to go bitless.

The nutural bridle grips and then holds with a determined pressure
the horses head with each planned manoeuvre.

Horses are panicaholics, claustrophobics. And 'locking capabilities
breed fear' in a panicaholic & claustrophobic animal. My second
determining factor when choosing to go bitless was to 'AVOID FEAR'.

What I seek, is compliance through agreed partnership.

What I seek is a partnership without force and without pain.

How can a pure and true partnership exist with force?

If I apply pressure to my horse, would it not be fair for him to
apply it to me?

Does that sound like a partnership in its truest sense?

No, what it sounds like is the continuing battle engaged by the
majority of horse folk everywhere.

But if I cease to apply undo pressure, if I remove pain, if I unlock
my horse, unlock myself, would it not be logical for him to cease
applying each of these things to me?

Would I then, open the doors to something better?

I'm not going to recite here word for word...but you will get the
jist of what was said by others....

By Nurtural's own admission,  in saying that there is more control,
they are in fact saying that their design has more 'grab' on the
horses head.

In the article by the girl from Horses in Canada magazine...she says
that Dr. Cook's bridle is very good for training the horse and for
honing in on her own riding skills, legs ect.  But if she wishes to
ride wildly in the country side, then the other bridle is
better. "more control".

So I tend to go with the idea: prelim ideas of course (wink)

Dr. Cook's for improving communication & performance of both horse
and rider

Nutural: to cowboy around

- Regarding the 'x-connection'

I also notice that in many of the pictures on the 'other' bridle
website, the horses nose is lifted.

I wonder if it is from pressure coming from the 'x-junction' under
the jaw.

Or perhaps it is a case of poor saddle fit...I'm not sure

These of course are just ideas I came up with only looking at photo's
and reading.

And my ideas may be inaccurate, won't know until I actually test the
bridle.

I'm sure the other bridle will be the cat's meow for some.

No different than the idea that some riders will always prefer a bit.

My choice will always be to train my horse to communicate 'with me'
with not

much more then a soft whispurr, the slightest touch. I can't get
there if I over do pressure.

My private goal is to ride 'headstall free'...I have one horse here
(Prince)

who I can ride with no headstall at all. To get there I had
to 'release him', so that he would trust me 100 percent.

Dr. Cook's bridle is very gentle, horse's are amazing creatures.

They are so full of desire to please, to communicate, and to follow.
You can train a horse with minimal to no pressure. And what you will
get is the best of a horse.

You have probably heard some people say that you need the pressure/
pain (bits, spurs, whips) to get a horse trained. You must use alot
of ummpf/pressure or the horse will disobey. I've had to work with
those horses. Their level of trust is underground. The fast teaching
of  the whip and spur took months/time to undo...but if you get past
that and retrain with 'more release' & 'fair leadership' what comes
out the otherside is one amazing creature and you get to be a full
partner in an amazing relationship.

My philosophy! I've have to forget alot to get alot.

And I have an opinion regarding hackamore nosebands....they are not
for early training!  They are probably not even for intermediate
training....advanced training, well not necessary, but can be
utilized by that level.  Never before!

And I know why too!  But that would require a whole new page!

Sheila
Merrill Equine Solutions
New Brunswick, Canada

interested in tips, challenges and changes in folks horses using these
methods of horsemanship...

Have used ansur saddles for 6 years, been barefoot for.. I can't
remember how long, and am new to bitless because I have a lovely
connemaraX mare who is very cross in cold steel.. or copper or just
about anything else...

She seems improved in just one try, but still flips her head when I
use the reins, and we haven't been through the gaits yet..

She's giving the thing a lot of thought though, mouthing as if looking
for the bit and she's more responsive to seat and leg aids...

suggestions and input welcome..

----- Original Message -----

From: Rodney and Michaela Wilkinson

To: bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 9:06 PM

Subject: Re: [bitlessbridle] Re: Looking for used bitless bridle

Thanks Nelda,
I did find one, yay!! I'm getting it in the mail this
week, can't wait to try it out :-)
Micha

--- Nelda Sisk <nelda_sisk@comcast.net> wrote:

> --- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Michaela"
> <rodandmicha@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I'm looking to buy a Dr. Cooks bitless bridle,
> average horse size,
> > Please e-mail me,
> > thanks :-)
> >
> There are always several on EBAY
> Nelda
>
>
>

THIS IS THE DAY
THE LORD HAS MADE;
LET US REJOICE AND
BE GLAD IN IT.

Psalm 118:24

Thanks Nelda,
I did find one, yay!! I'm getting it in the mail this
week, can't wait to try it out :-)
Micha


--- Nelda Sisk <nelda_sisk@...> wrote:

> --- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Michaela"
> <rodandmicha@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I'm looking to buy a Dr. Cooks bitless bridle,
> average horse size,
> > Please e-mail me,
> > thanks :-)
> >
> There are always several on EBAY
> Nelda
>
>
>


THIS IS THE DAY
THE LORD HAS MADE;
LET US REJOICE AND
BE GLAD IN IT.

Psalm 118:24

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Michaela" <rodandmicha@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm looking to buy a Dr. Cooks bitless bridle, average horse size,
> Please e-mail me,
> thanks :-)
>
There are always several on EBAY
Nelda

Hi,
I'm looking to buy a Dr. Cooks bitless bridle, average horse size,
Please e-mail me,
thanks :-)

Butler County, Harper County, Reno County, Cowley County, Sedgwick
County, Sumner County ANY where in Kansas


I need to LEASE/CONTRACT FOR DEED a small farm property with good
fences would like to have a nice barn! I need to be near a college or
community college to continue school. I was looking in Butler county
but anywhere near a college will be fine. I do not need a big house
there are just me and three  Arabian mares and a gentleman of
distinction,  a  a 20 year old gelded throughbred. I will fix up house
if needed. I will consider all possiblities! Anywhere in Kansas. I am a
55 year old Widow. I live alone.

Please Email me: I will get back to you.



Tori

Hi, I took a long time choosing which bitless, it's true they all
seem similar.  I went with the Freedom bridle because of a few added
features, and the nice price.  It has the cross-under like the
Cook's, but it also has a strap under the throat so that it stays
stable and doesn't ride up to the eye on either side.  Also it has
the ability to switch to halter & lead mode, handy for long trail
rides.  I like how there are no heavy clips where the reins come out,
so it feels very light handed.  I just got mine in the mail today!!
=]  I used it on a broke horse who's only had bits, and he had no
trouble "getting" it.

The designer rides endurance.  Here's the website:
http://www.mossrockendurance.com/mrea/view_product.asp?
category_ID=1&prod_ID=18

I'm new to the group too, Hi peoples!  I've been soaking up info
lately, since I recently began working with horses, and I'm very glad
that there are plenty of humane alternatives to the old way of harsh
equipment & force.  I'm almost decided on which treeless saddle to
get.. I need gentle tools since most of the horses I'll be riding are
green or sour.  Anyway, cool group here, much needed since going
bitless is mostly unheard of.
   Happy trails,  Lisa


>   ...They are all the same basic bridle and the Spirit
> person is suing the Nutural guys for theft of his idea (he's after
Dr. Cook, too). Each one
> says they're the best!  How to choose??? I  love the idea of a
bitless bridle and wonder now
> if a hackamore might not be the solution? Anyone???  Oh, I trail
ride my wonderful
> barefoot Spotted Saddle Horse mare in a treeless saddle (I got
tired of trying to get a
> saddle to fit).  Thanks,
>
> Dana
>

I'm middle-aged, getting into riding again after 12 years.  WOW, the
horse world has sure changed.....debunking almost everything I thought
I knew about horses and riding :-O  ;-).  Anyway, so here I am....old,
arthritic and clueless, climbing up on a 15.2 hand hoss....am I nutz?
(hehe)

Seriously, I have always been nutz about horses.  As a baby with stuffed
ones, a toddler with "Miss Jean's Hobby Horses", a youngster who's
first ride was on a huge white draft, a teenager who would do almost
anything ;-) to ride, to my first horse at age 18......I couldn't get
enough of horses.  I counted the other day and I've leased and/or
owned 16 in my lifetime thus far (didn't think it was that many).
Anyway, (I do tend to ramble) I never rode my horses without a
bit..except for when I was a kid, just fooling around.  That has
changed (like most things in life you never thought could be done
differently).

I bought a paint gelding in July whom I started having problems with
almost immediately.  He had respect issues along with when I'd ride
him in the paddock, he'd stop at the gate or pull toward the barn
(this is in a snaffle bit).  So I gave Cathie Hatrick-Anderson a call,
having heard good things about her training abilities.  She came out
here and "steam-rollered" my horse (just kidding ;-)) and told me
about the bitless bridle along with many other extremely useful
training techniques (we're not 100% yet Cathie, but we're a LOT
better, thanks to you).  To continue,  I stayed using the snaffle and
improved my horsemanship but was still having troubles with my horse
resisting the bit.  So, as Cathie suggested, I started riding him in
just a halter and leadrope...he was so much better!!!!!!  I rode him
for about a week in the paddock then took him on the trail.  He was a
little stronger than I would have liked (feasting on tree limbs every
chance he got) but otherwise, did fine.  I was amazed!  To make a long
story short, I'm pretty sure I want to go with the BB...the only
question is which model?

Hi:  The name of that book is "Breaking and Training the Driving Horse"
by Doris Ganton, there are lots of others now putting out books, DVD's
etc. you have to find a method you are happy with.  Let us know how you
are making out.
Margaret

Hi Alix:  Well as far as training is concerned I have never had a
trainer of any sort so I have to do it on my own.  I have all my
horses trained to respond to the voice {very important for driving}
as you cannot use leg aids or body language to cue, I teach my horses
to "get over" (get for short) to turn left and "come over" (come for
short) to turn right and of course the very important "whoa" for
stop, "walk" to walk a stronger "walk on" for a faster walk, "trot"
and a stronger "trot on" for an extended trot, the whip is used to
enforce the voice command, you don't hit them just touch the side as
you would the leg, takes practice of course, I use the word "steady"
to help them slow down if they get a little fast, you just have to be
consistent and use the same commands at all times.  Not that I don't
make mistakes at times but horses are usually very forgiving and the
odd miscommunication isn't going to ruin the horse.  Start with
putting on the harness and ground driving, when they are used to that
and going well, start putting weight on the traces, I find that using
a person on the traces, make sure you make the traces longer by using
rope so that the person is in no danger of being kicked, is a good
way to do this part as you can control when you want the weight and
how much and when to release.  Get the horse used to feeling the
shafts or equivalent on its sides and when it is used to all these
things bring out the vehicle and have the person pull it around on
both sides of the horse while you are ground driving  and when the
horse is not the least bit concerned with the sight smell and sounds
it makes then you are probably ready to hitch.  All this will take a
considerable amount of time depending on the horse of course some are
much more amenable to the whole thing than others.  A book I found
very helpful was Doris Gantons Teaching Your Horse to Drive, also a
Video same title, anyway hope this has been of some help.  Remember
take your time, don't try to rush things and be safe at all times. As
far as other peoples reaction to you using the bitless, I have found
that unless I tell people I'm using it they don't even notice.  Guess
it would be a little different with a trainer, they are bound to
notice.  I would ignore them and continue, if you are relaxed and
happy with the bitless and your horse is then it is obviously
working. Getting horses to do things with a bitless would be just as
difficult and time consuming as using a bit, depends on the trainer
{you} mostly I would think.
Margaret F
Kenora, ON

P.S.  A professional I am not, bye the way.  And when I say I do not
have a trainer I'm talking about one that is teaching me to drive, I
did get 2 of my morgans trained to drive (green broke) that is and
they were very gentle trainers.  But I have had to put the time and
miles on them, though I did train my gelding to drive using the above
method and he was pretty good and easy to train, I'm getting older
now and can't do the running and physical stuff like I used to.







Margaret F
Kenora, ON

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "rfairfield12000" <rfairfield12000@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi to you all:  I have only been on the list myself for about 3 months
> so I guess I'm a newbie too.  Got my bitless about 6 months ago and
> have never looked back.  I drive so I'm not too familiar with the
> riding aspect of things.  My bridle which has optional parts to turn it
> into a riding bridle has been used a couple of times for riding, once
> by a very nervous rider who used it, but she still uses the severe type
> western bit in her young horses mouth, even though he was perfectly
> good in the bitless.  I rode a couple of weeks ago, since I became
> stiffer and somewhat afraid of falling off I don't do it often, must be
> my age, my horse was fine I was the problem.  Anyway I have used
> nothing but the bitless on my two horses that I drive and cannot see
> much difference in its effect except that the horse is happier and I
> can't hurt the horse.  I think collection etc would come with a lot of
> practice, it's not easy to achieve with a bit either, keep at it and
> have fun.  Time is running short here for doing the driving thing
> unless I can get my hands on a sleigh we have already had two lots of
> snow and it isn't even Halloween.
> Margaret F
> Kenora, ON
>
Thanks for the encouragement Margaret! I hope to start teaching my Belgian to
'drive' or
rather 'pull' once i get more riding and 'bonding' under my belt. so any
suggestions/ tips
using the BB to drive, would be appreciated. I still love my BB and definately
feel 'safer'
with it because i have his attention when i'm riding instead of him chomping and
fussing
with the bit. I just started a series of riding lessons at the stable where i'm
boarding him
and i'm still the 'odd' one (so far the only one that would even consider a BB
and a treeless
saddle)...although i keep my mouth shut, i can't see why folks would want to use
a bit if
there is another option. I'm actually finding that i'm "training" myself and my
horse better
with the BB because i'm not using the bit as a crutch.....although my instructor
is not too
keen on the "headstall" and feels that a 3 year old 'needs' more "direction"
(ie. a bit), she
knows that i want to work with the BB and she is still willing to "train us".
But I still find
myself feeling like a loner and don't get pats on the back for using the
BB....so i read these
posts and use this group for venting and encouragement.....so keep those pats
coming!...(PS in todays lesson he (or I) was turning right much better
:):):)....thanks all, alix

Hi to you all:  I have only been on the list myself for about 3 months
so I guess I'm a newbie too.  Got my bitless about 6 months ago and
have never looked back.  I drive so I'm not too familiar with the
riding aspect of things.  My bridle which has optional parts to turn it
into a riding bridle has been used a couple of times for riding, once
by a very nervous rider who used it, but she still uses the severe type
western bit in her young horses mouth, even though he was perfectly
good in the bitless.  I rode a couple of weeks ago, since I became
stiffer and somewhat afraid of falling off I don't do it often, must be
my age, my horse was fine I was the problem.  Anyway I have used
nothing but the bitless on my two horses that I drive and cannot see
much difference in its effect except that the horse is happier and I
can't hurt the horse.  I think collection etc would come with a lot of
practice, it's not easy to achieve with a bit either, keep at it and
have fun.  Time is running short here for doing the driving thing
unless I can get my hands on a sleigh we have already had two lots of
snow and it isn't even Halloween.
Margaret F
Kenora, ON

Hi Alix,
thanks for the nice welcome.
I also believe that I am fine tuning more into my
horse since i've been using the hackamore, which I
think is a great thing. My horse isn't young by any
means (he's 19!!) but he is green, so we're in the
same boat, somehow :-)
Micha


--- dairyfarmertoo <alixkru@...> wrote:

> --- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Michaela"
> <rodandmicha@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I'm new and would like to introduce myself. I
> recently adopted a STB
> > and have been working with him, since he is fairly
> green. We've been
> > doing a lot of ground work, and some riding. I
> would ride him in a
> > snaffle and he'd get all annoyed, shaking his
> head, chewing the bit,
> > not paying attention to me. So I tried my Parelli
> hackamore and: A
> > world of difference!!!! I would love to try the Dr
> Cooks bitless
> > bridle eventually, or do you think I should just
> stick to the rope hack?
> > Micha
> > barefoot, treeless and now going bitless :-)
> >
> Hi Micha,
> Welcome! I just recieved my first treeless saddle
> today! can't wait to try it out! I've been
> using the Dr. Cooks BB...although I'm waiting for a
> different size head strap to fit my
> skinny headed Belgian, I've been very pleased. I'm a
> new rider and i feel safer with the BB
> than i do using a bit....Since i'm new and my horse
> young, I'm having to fine tune what I'm
> learning in my lessons to the BB concepts of
> pressure/ release....not sure if i'm making any
> sense, it's just that I am the only one at the
> stable using a BB and folks around me are
> 'used' to instant responses ie. from a bit.....i'm
> sure they are waiting to see if "that thing"
> (the BB) will work....Actually, I feel like using
> the BB is in a way forcing me to "listen" to my
> horse better and get to know his 'cues' and visa
> versa....
> Again, welcome and enjoy! (I have to go milk
> now:):);), alix
>
>
>


THIS IS THE DAY
THE LORD HAS MADE;
LET US REJOICE AND
BE GLAD IN IT.

Psalm 118:24

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Michaela" <rodandmicha@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm new and would like to introduce myself. I recently adopted a STB
> and have been working with him, since he is fairly green. We've been
> doing a lot of ground work, and some riding. I would ride him in a
> snaffle and he'd get all annoyed, shaking his head, chewing the bit,
> not paying attention to me. So I tried my Parelli hackamore and: A
> world of difference!!!! I would love to try the Dr Cooks bitless
> bridle eventually, or do you think I should just stick to the rope hack?
> Micha
> barefoot, treeless and now going bitless :-)
>
Hi Micha,
Welcome! I just recieved my first treeless saddle today! can't wait to try it
out! I've been
using the Dr. Cooks BB...although I'm waiting for a different size head strap to
fit my
skinny headed Belgian, I've been very pleased. I'm a new rider and i feel safer
with the BB
than i do using a bit....Since i'm new and my horse young, I'm having to fine
tune what I'm
learning in my lessons to the BB concepts of pressure/ release....not sure if
i'm making any
sense, it's just that I am the only one at the stable using a BB and folks
around me are
'used' to instant responses ie. from a bit.....i'm sure they are waiting to see
if "that thing"
(the BB) will work....Actually, I feel like using the BB is in a way forcing me
to "listen" to my
horse better and get to know his 'cues' and visa versa....
Again, welcome and enjoy! (I have to go milk now:):);), alix

Hi,
I'm new and would like to introduce myself. I recently adopted a STB
and have been working with him, since he is fairly green. We've been
doing a lot of ground work, and some riding. I would ride him in a
snaffle and he'd get all annoyed, shaking his head, chewing the bit,
not paying attention to me. So I tried my Parelli hackamore and: A
world of difference!!!! I would love to try the Dr Cooks bitless
bridle eventually, or do you think I should just stick to the rope hack?
Micha
barefoot, treeless and now going bitless :-)

Thanks for the info, Cathie.  Have you any opinions on the natural horseman
hackamore?
Dana

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Cathie Hatrick-Anderson"
<cathieanderson@...>
wrote:

> I have used many hackamores, and it's too easy to misuse them for
> riders, they lift the reins, employ the shanking action when they
> shouldn't and can cause the horse to rear. I have no problem using
> them, ( I don't use them anymore, as there is no need for that kind of
> power over a horse's nose- ouch! if I make a wrong move. Most riders I
> see cause the horse to go around with his head
> in the air, and are constantly making the leverage action employ. I've
> gone to training jobs where I've told riders to get
> rid of it becuase it's (Their hands on it) going to get them killed.
>
> http://www.equinesitegallery.com/CHA/flashBack.htm
> I hope this link
> works it's a picture of me jumping in a bosal type hackamore when I
> was seven,
> notice I was not pulling on the reins. The horse was only 3 years old.
> I'd go with Dr. Cook, becuase I have used it on many horses and there
> is no way for a rider to abuse the horse in it.
>

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Brimaxx" <klhla@...> wrote:
>
> Hi! My name is Kristie, and I am a new member.  Also new to the BB
> which I am starting my mustang mare on.  I am hoping to pick up some
> pointers from you guys. Hope you don't mind questions I might have here
> and there.  She has never had a bit in her mouth as far as I know. I
> thought it would be OK to start her out with a BB.  I had a "trainer"
> friend of mine suggest a training snaffle, initially, to get her to
> understand the "basics", then switch her to the BB.  I would rather
> start her with the BB, personally.   She is a sweet girl and very
> cooperative and really wants to please, so I really think we have a
> chance of success here! Does anyone have any suggestions???


Welcome!

Get her started bitless, she'll understand it BETTER anyone here has a
right to respond, especially new people!
We are all here to share out stories, training ideas, lend support,
etc. Just because one does not train professionally does not matter,
there are so many diamonds in the rough that could be professionals
that are not. And so many others that still have valuable information.
Please keep sharing.

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <equiforme@...> wrote:
>
> I love hearing from people who have the guts to do what they think is
> right! - for the horse!
>
> I know of a lot of horses that do not turn well to the right even with
> a bit. Sometimes less is more. A light 'sponging' pressure on a loose
> rein sometimes works even better.(with a BB) In one case where the
> horse had the right turn problem, he had displaced vertebrae in 5
> different areas. It had nothing to do with 'not wanting' to.
>
> I don't follow any particular discipline, but do practice Haute Ecole
> just to keep my horses in shape with different exercises. Trainers
> just laugh off the BB, especially dressage people. Collection without
> a bit? After they spent years practicing and spending money on
> classes, they hate the thought of being told that a bit is not
> necessary... and what about tradition?
>
> My horses collect naturally. Maybe without the super-curved neck that
> is forced by human hands in normal dressage, but a natural beauty of
> strength and proudness and willingness.
>
> I think I have the last laugh. And feel sorry for all the other horses.
>
> Michael
>
Welcome Michael, Will look forward to hearing your imput, and help
with advice to those who come here looking!

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Dana Tautz" <wlkn2mo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have been looking into Bitless Bridles and hope your expertise wil
help me decide which
> one to get.  I have discovered there are two companies beside Dr.
Cook out there: Spirit
> Horse (http://www.bitlessspiritbridle.com/) and Nutural
> (http://www.nurturalhorse.com/).   They are all the same basic
bridle and the Spirit
> person is suing the Nutural guys for theft of his idea (he's after
Dr. Cook, too). Each one
> says they're the best!  How to choose??? I  love the idea of a
bitless bridle and wonder now
> if a hackamore might not be the solution? Anyone???  Oh, I trail
ride my wonderful
> barefoot Spotted Saddle Horse mare in a treeless saddle (I got tired
of trying to get a
> saddle to fit).  Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
I have used many hackamores, and it's too easy to misuse them for
riders, they lift the reins, employ the shanking action when they
shouldn't and can cause the horse to rear. I have no problem using
them, ( I don't use them anymore, as there is no need for that kind of
power over a horse's nose- ouch! if I make a wrong move. Most riders I
see cause the horse to go around with his head
in the air, and are constantly making the leverage action employ. I've
gone to training jobs where I've told riders to get
rid of it becuase it's (Their hands on it) going to get them killed.

http://www.equinesitegallery.com/CHA/flashBack.htm
I hope this link
works it's a picture of me jumping in a bosal type hackamore when I
was seven,
notice I was not pulling on the reins. The horse was only 3 years old.
I'd go with Dr. Cook, becuase I have used it on many horses and there
is no way for a rider to abuse the horse in it.

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "chantalluboff" <jcluboff@...>
wrote:
>
> Is there anyone using the Bitless Bridle, who lives in the San
> Francisco Bay area, Sonoma County, or not too far from here, who would
> be willing to offer their hands-on support in learning how have a
> smooth transition, and how to use the Biltless Britle?
> Thank you so much for your reply!
> Chantal
>
Welcome Chantal, I hope someone in her area can give her some direction.
Many horses just go in it immediately and understand it. But some
horses that have problems like nervous owners need help finding a
confident rider to demonstrate.
I was just talking to a gal the rides using Dr. Cooks bitless, and she
said her friend who is nervous about trying it, is passing that on to
her horse in the way she rides, so she thinks she needs to use the bit
again. The horse is just as nervous with the bit.
For people like that it is best to start out with both your bitted
bridle, and the bitless bridle, have two sets of reins, since much of
this is a mind thing (Riders are so used to thinking the bit controls
the horse, and think the horse is just going to take off without a bit
in his mouth- not true, unless he is a bolter BECAUSE of the bit in
the first place.) even then he can be re-trained with patience and
breaking the habit of when a rider gets on, my mouth hurts, I'm going
to run to get rid of the pain.
So ride in a ring first, have both bridles on, leave your bitted
bridle reins on the horses neck, and work on circles, figure eights,
halts, and see if you horse is not doing everything better, this will
give you the confidence to know it works.
Also the biggest thing riders have a problem with is LETTING go of the
reins when you ask for a halt. Don't hang on the reins till the horse
stops, you squeeze and release! If you hang on the reins you teach the
horse to push into pressure. If after you release the reins and the
horse is not stopped you correct him with a sharp half halt motion.
and repeat. Pretty soon the horse will stop BEFORE you even touch the
reins.
Also helpful, saying the horse's name right before you get to where
you want to stop, "Blackie (Your sitting deep in the saddle now, he
feels your weight shift, you've run your hands up your reins to
shorten them, he feels that too) a-n-d- w-h-o-a," you don't squeeze
the reins to stop until you've done everything else. Your giving him
all day to stop actually about four feet from where you want to set up
a few cones. That way if he's not stopped by then he deserves a
correction. he'll start stopping before you even touch the reins to
avoid it. don't move on to trot till he's perfect at a walk.
Good luck!

Is there anyone using the Bitless Bridle, who lives in the San
Francisco Bay area, Sonoma County, or not too far from here, who would
be willing to offer their hands-on support in learning how have a
smooth transition, and how to use the Biltless Britle?
Thank you so much for your reply!
Chantal

I had problems fitting my horse and opted for a treeless saddle.   The treeless
saddle
group if full of usefull and wonderful information:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/treelesssaddles

Happy hunting:)  Cheers, Dana


--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "dairyfarmertoo" <alixkru@...> wrote:
>
> Now that i've gotten my "head gear" figured out....I've been trying to figure
out what i
want
> for a saddle...I'm currently using a FQB western saddle...(i know that i need
a draft size
for
> my next purchase)....i'm just planning to trail ride, have fun, and eventually
teach my
> belgian to pull....the western saddles seem to be bulky and even the draft
size doesn't
> seem flat enough (i can bearly find his withers!)...Any experience, pros/cons
with
treeless
> saddles (I haven't seen one yet)....or endurance saddles?....I want some
simple, light,
good
> for my horse, and me....any ideas?
> alix
>

--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "Dana Tautz" <wlkn2mo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have been looking into Bitless Bridles and hope your expertise wil help me
decide
which
> one to get.  I have discovered there are two companies beside Dr. Cook out
there: Spirit
> Horse (http://www.bitlessspiritbridle.com/) and Nutural
> (http://www.nurturalhorse.com/).   They are all the same basic bridle and the
Spirit
> person is suing the Nutural guys for theft of his idea (he's after Dr. Cook,
too). Each one
> says they're the best!  How to choose??? I  love the idea of a bitless bridle
and wonder
now
> if a hackamore might not be the solution? Anyone???  Oh, I trail ride my
wonderful
> barefoot Spotted Saddle Horse mare in a treeless saddle (I got tired of trying
to get a
> saddle to fit).  Thanks,
>
> Dana
>
Hi Dana,
just wanted to welcome you! I am new to horses and the only BB i have any
experience
with is Dr. Cooks....so far i have been very inpressed with the service and
advice i've
gotten....we have had to tweak the size on one of the straps for my
skinny-headed
belgian. They are special ordering a new strap (for a cost of $10! probably the
least
expensive horse item i've bought!)....even though the draft size i have is not
quite right, i
have been able to continue to do training....and i've noticed that the better i
get at
applying and releasing pressure the better responses i'm getting....i also love
how simple
dr. cook's is...there is not a lot of 'tack' to fumble with and i can go from
cross ties, to
leading, to training, to riding, very seamlessly....hope this helps, good luck,
alix. PS I've
just ordered my first barefoot treeless saddle! can't wait to try it out!

Hi,

I have been looking into Bitless Bridles and hope your expertise wil help me
decide which
one to get.  I have discovered there are two companies beside Dr. Cook out
there: Spirit
Horse (http://www.bitlessspiritbridle.com/) and Nutural
(http://www.nurturalhorse.com/).   They are all the same basic bridle and the
Spirit
person is suing the Nutural guys for theft of his idea (he's after Dr. Cook,
too). Each one
says they're the best!  How to choose??? I  love the idea of a bitless bridle
and wonder now
if a hackamore might not be the solution? Anyone???  Oh, I trail ride my
wonderful
barefoot Spotted Saddle Horse mare in a treeless saddle (I got tired of trying
to get a
saddle to fit).  Thanks,

Dana

Just a few tips for all animals...Animals love attention; one of the
best ways to get an animal's attention is to make "clicking sounds
with your voice. Cooing is also good. The trick is: always use the
same words for different associated tasks. Say the Horse comes to a
nice Halt on command. Always say the same phrase when he does this
such as: What a Pretty Boy or Girl. Then when he walks nicely say Good
boy girl. If he trots well say: What a good Trotter in a positive tone.
Eventually the Horse will understand the command on hearing the words.

What I find to be amazing is: Many Aniamls actually have a Higher
sense of Hearing and Sight than we do. So logically speaking; a Horse
can see and hear you and your commands much better than we realize.

A Horses sense of Smell is so acute that a Wild Mustang Stallion
can "smell the Phermones(female-scents) of a Mare of up to 5 miles.

So,when around your Horse(s) use little or no Perfumes/Colonges. A.H.
--- In bitlessbridle@yahoogroups.com, "pitbullkissess" <NHCrested@...>
wrote:
>
> My name is Sherrie , I live in Epping NH. I just got a rescue horse
> and I am trying to make friends with her , she is a handfull , I am
> having trouble with things and how to do the right thing for her.
That
> is why I am here to learn as much as I can and hope to make some
> friends that know horses.
>