Anyone else catch the (very) short piece on J-Mac on Channel 8 in
DSM last night?  At least it was during the sports.  I think they
said something about a longer feature on Friday night's sports.

They had footage of J-Mac riding yesterday on the biketrail by the
botanical center.

Hey James, yer always invited to the TNWC's. By the way, we meet at Bike
World on Merle Hay. Park in the church parking lot, next to the shop. Yer
welcome to fill yer bottle and take a pee at the shop, I 'spose they got
some gu or a power bar if ya need a snack after yer drive. Donny's
willing to drive 3 hours for a 2 hour ride on Tuesdays, so 70 miles don't
seem so bad, now and again. It doesn't really matter what week you can
make it, cuz we'll be at the same place, every week, same time, too!
5:30! We actually do the same route every week, so if yer running a
little late, meet us at the top of the dam. You can park at the visitors
center - we'll be there at about 6:15. Be prepared for a hard ride, cuz
it's a hammer fest - there are some really strong guys (and girls!) in
DSM as a result of all the new riders coming in, both jr.s and old
geezers - this TNWC must be doin' some people some good, cuz it's speedn'
up round here!

Hope you can join us soon.
Peace - Dave - old geezer - Mable (wait, Logan's older!!)
PS. there ain't no entry fee.... you can get dropped with the rest of us
and it didn't even cost ya 25 bones!!

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:16:50 -0700 "James Thacker"
<jthacker@...> writes:
I'd like to offer a different perspective to the 'Tuesday Night Road
Ride' debate.  I now live in a small community of 1100 people 70+ miles
from Des Moines, no one shares my interest in road racing/TT's, no other
serious riders, lots of rolling hills in all directions, I'm
self-employed with a highly dynamic client schedule, serious semi-truck
traffic on secondary roads and I'm always riding alone. I'm not
complaining, mind you, because I figure we all have our crosses to bear;
and yet, unless I opt to make significant changes to a number of factors
affecting more than my riding/training needs, I am left salivating at
even the opportunity to participate in your Tuesday night rides.

While it sounds like there are real issues to iron out re: the Tuesday
rides, I'd just like to say some of us in the hinterlands would love to
face the dilemmas of which you speak.   Just the other side of the coin.

thanks,
james thacker

----- Original Message -----
From: David w MABLE
To: chadbike1970@...
Cc: donnyquixote@... ; bikeiowa@yahoogroups.com ;
centraliowamultisport@yahoogroups.com ; iorca@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:15 PM
Subject: [BikeIowa] Re; Why DSM's Tuesday Road Ride Sucks


I just gotta reply... If you read nothing else... read  #4

1) This ride isn't just old, it's older than old! I started racing in
'85... guess when and where the group met - that's right, BW, Merle Hay,
Tuesdays at 5:30!! We did, back then, ride different routes, 'course,
there were only 2-8 of us.... and nobody would meet us on the road!
Pretty easy to navigate town and decide where to ride.  I remember riding
to the shop hoping there would be SOMEBODY to ride with, now all that has
changed!

2) This ride has turned into a HAMMER FEST! And I love it!  It is not a
feel good, bring your little friends out on ride. I tell beginning riders
to stay away from TNWC until they are ready.

3) Now, is there room for improvement, yes. Different route, save that
for the weekends.  (or Thursdays... oh wait, that's the same!). Different
place... why? So I have to plan a complety different trip to the bike
shop to get a tube? Or go to a place that will get pissed when I walk in
my cleats to the restroom to take my preride pee? Heck, In reality, we
don't meet at the bike shop... everyone I know parks in the church lot -
this should be the St. Andrew's Bike Ride!

4) Real isssues in my mind are these - We don't wait (self included..)
when someone has a flat/mechanical or, um, misses a corner (lack of
community). I think we should at least slow up when someone has a
problem. We are also bad with stop signs. We have gone from stopping
(that was a long time ago - you won't remember Chad... pre 1999!) to
slowing.... now it seems that we accellerate through stop signs. THis is
not a supported road race - even though it feels like one! Let's wait
from riders with mechanicals and at least SLOW DOWN at stop signs!

There, that ought to fix it. I do hate getting dropped, but there is
almost always a group behind. Maybe there should be a sweeper to turn
back and pick up the singles that get dropped. Maybe that could be Donny
for the next month!

Long Live Tuesday Nites!!!
Peace - Dave


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lee.... 6 months ago I  would have bought your Scalpel bike but now have
something similar..   Plan to put my 2000 blue Waterford on ebay soon but
would rather sell closer to home.    It is a 61 cm, with Shimano 105 group
Reynolds 531 butted tubing frame Model RS-11, Profile Design AC fork, Mavic
Open Pro wheels, crank 175 triple.  Ridden only by a 60+ year old, never
crashed.  $1100,   Jim

I'd like to offer a different perspective to the 'Tuesday Night Road Ride'
debate.  I now live in a small community of 1100 people 70+ miles from Des
Moines, no one shares my interest in road racing/TT's, no other serious riders,
lots of rolling hills in all directions, I'm self-employed with a highly dynamic
client schedule, serious semi-truck traffic on secondary roads and I'm always
riding alone. I'm not complaining, mind you, because I figure we all have our
crosses to bear; and yet, unless I opt to make significant changes to a number
of factors affecting more than my riding/training needs, I am left salivating at
even the opportunity to participate in your Tuesday night rides.

While it sounds like there are real issues to iron out re: the Tuesday rides,
I'd just like to say some of us in the hinterlands would love to face the
dilemmas of which you speak.   Just the other side of the coin.

thanks,
james thacker

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: David w MABLE
   To: chadbike1970@...
   Cc: donnyquixote@... ; bikeiowa@yahoogroups.com ;
centraliowamultisport@yahoogroups.com ; iorca@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:15 PM
   Subject: [BikeIowa] Re; Why DSM's Tuesday Road Ride Sucks


   I just gotta reply... If you read nothing else... read  #4

   1) This ride isn't just old, it's older than old! I started racing in
   '85... guess when and where the group met - that's right, BW, Merle Hay,
   Tuesdays at 5:30!! We did, back then, ride different routes, 'course,
   there were only 2-8 of us.... and nobody would meet us on the road!
   Pretty easy to navigate town and decide where to ride.  I remember riding
   to the shop hoping there would be SOMEBODY to ride with, now all that has
   changed!

   2) This ride has turned into a HAMMER FEST! And I love it!  It is not a
   feel good, bring your little friends out on ride. I tell beginning riders
   to stay away from TNWC until they are ready.

   3) Now, is there room for improvement, yes. Different route, save that
   for the weekends.  (or Thursdays... oh wait, that's the same!). Different
   place... why? So I have to plan a complety different trip to the bike
   shop to get a tube? Or go to a place that will get pissed when I walk in
   my cleats to the restroom to take my preride pee? Heck, In reality, we
   don't meet at the bike shop... everyone I know parks in the church lot -
   this should be the St. Andrew's Bike Ride!

   4) Real isssues in my mind are these - We don't wait (self included..)
   when someone has a flat/mechanical or, um, misses a corner (lack of
   community). I think we should at least slow up when someone has a
   problem. We are also bad with stop signs. We have gone from stopping
   (that was a long time ago - you won't remember Chad... pre 1999!) to
   slowing.... now it seems that we accellerate through stop signs. THis is
   not a supported road race - even though it feels like one! Let's wait
   from riders with mechanicals and at least SLOW DOWN at stop signs!

   There, that ought to fix it. I do hate getting dropped, but there is
   almost always a group behind. Maybe there should be a sweeper to turn
   back and pick up the singles that get dropped. Maybe that could be Donny
   for the next month!

   Long Live Tuesday Nites!!!
   Peace - Dave


   Visit the IBRA web page at http://www.BikeIowa.ORG/home.html
   To Subscribe to this email list, tell your friends to send a blank message to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just gotta reply... If you read nothing else... read  #4

1) This ride isn't just old, it's older than old! I started racing in
'85... guess when and where the group met - that's right, BW, Merle Hay,
Tuesdays at 5:30!! We did, back then, ride different routes, 'course,
there were only 2-8 of us.... and nobody would meet us on the road!
Pretty easy to navigate town and decide where to ride.  I remember riding
to the shop hoping there would be SOMEBODY to ride with, now all that has
changed!

2) This ride has turned into a HAMMER FEST! And I love it!  It is not a
feel good, bring your little friends out on ride. I tell beginning riders
to stay away from TNWC until they are ready.

3) Now, is there room for improvement, yes. Different route, save that
for the weekends.  (or Thursdays... oh wait, that's the same!). Different
place... why? So I have to plan a complety different trip to the bike
shop to get a tube? Or go to a place that will get pissed when I walk in
my cleats to the restroom to take my preride pee? Heck, In reality, we
don't meet at the bike shop... everyone I know parks in the church lot -
this should be the St. Andrew's Bike Ride!

4) Real isssues in my mind are these - We don't wait (self included..)
when someone has a flat/mechanical or, um, misses a corner (lack of
community). I think we should at least slow up when someone has a
problem. We are also bad with stop signs. We have gone from stopping
(that was a long time ago - you won't remember Chad... pre 1999!) to
slowing.... now it seems that we accellerate through stop signs. THis is
not a supported road race - even though it feels like one! Let's wait
from riders with mechanicals and at least SLOW DOWN at stop signs!

There, that ought to fix it. I do hate getting dropped, but there is
almost always a group behind. Maybe there should be a sweeper to turn
back and pick up the singles that get dropped. Maybe that could be Donny
for the next month!

Long Live Tuesday Nites!!!
Peace - Dave

I'm going to put this up on ebay - but hopefully somebody will want to
buy this locally so I don't have to box it up and ship it out...I'm
asking $1150 (local only) - if you are interested let me know right
away so the auction hasn't ended.

I'm selling my 2002 Cannondale Scalpel 2000 dual suspension mountain
bike since I have ridden it less than 2 dozen times and I could use the
money to pay for some more road races this summer.

It is an XL (I'm 6'3").  The bike features an XTR rear derailleur, XT
shifters, Magura Marta disc brakes, a Fox rear shock and Headshok Fatty
front shock (both with lockout).  It will come with a standard
non-tubeless wheelset with double-butted spokes and sealed cartridge
hubs.  It has a titanium-railed saddle, lightweight seatpost, 2x9
crank, etc.  The chain has only one ride on it and the bike is is good
shape.

I'll also throw in a shock pump (works ok - but not perfect), a remote
lockout for the rear shock, and a brand new set of disc brake pads
(maybe some other extras too...)

You can see a picture at:
http://leev.home.mchsi.com/scalpel.JPG

Again, I'm asking $1150 for everything.  The bike alone retailed for
$3000 new.  You can email or call me if you or a friend is interested
(phone is 319-351-5321).  I'm located in Iowa City if you want to check
out the bike.  Thanks for reading.

Lee Venteicher.

It was a wonderful evening for racing as 18 riders showed up for this week's
night at the oval series.  Here are the results for overall and individual
races.

Overall:
Cat 1,2,3:
1.  Lee Ventiecher
2.  Craig Tuetkin

Cat 4:
1.  Ian Robinson
2.  Thomas Treharne

Cat 5:
1.  Barry Breffle
2.  Mike Ignaffo
3.  Alan Schmidt
4.  Bennet Bork
5.  Tom Henson
6.  Jason Amoriell
7.  John Woody
8.  Chris Nesseth

Master 40+:
1.  Richard Gilmore
2.  Vern Rotert

Women:
1.  Jerica Gritsch
2.  Jami Hartwig
3.  Alex Mertens
4.  Sabin Amoriell


Placing for the night by race event

1st RACE:  15 lap scratch race (cat1,2,4, 40+)
1.  Lee Ventiecher
2.  Craig Tuetkin
3.  Ian Robinson
4.  Richard Gilmore
5.  Milke Ignaffo
6.  Vern Rotert
7.  Thomas Treharne

2nd RACE:  10 lap scratch race (cat5, women)
1.  Barry Breffle
2.  Alan Schmidt
3.  Mike Ignaffo
4.  Tom Henson
5.  Jerica Gritsch
6.  Jami Hartwig
7.  Bennet Bork
8.  Jason Amoriell
9.  Chris Nesseth
10.  Sabin Amoriell
11.  Alex Mertens
12.  John Woody

3rd RACE:  Miss and Out (cat1,2,4, 40+)
1.  Lee Ventiecher
2.  Ian Robinson
3.  Craig Tuetkin
4.  Tom Henson
5.  Richard Gilmore
6.  Vern Rotert
7.  Thomas Treharne

4th RACE:  Miss and Out (cat 5, women)
1.  Bennet Bork
2.  Barry Breffle
3.  Mike Ignaffo
4.  Alan Schmidt
5.  Jerica Gritsch
6.  Tom Henson
7.  Jami Hartwig
8.  Jason Amoriell
9.  John Woody
10.  Alex Merten
11.  Sabin Amoriell

5th RACE:  4 lap scratch race (Lee and Craig start 1/4 mile back)
1.  Ian Robinson
2.  Barry Breffle
3.  Tom Henson
4.  Bennet Bork
5.  Thomas Treharne
6.  Mike Ignaffo
7.  Craig Tuetkin
8.  Richard Gilmore
9.  Jami Hartwig
10.  Alan Schmidt
11.  Jason Armoriell
12.  John Woody
13.  Vern Rotert
14.  Jerica Gritsch
15.  Lee Ventiecher
16.  Chris Nesseth
17.  Alex Mertens
18.  Sabin Armoriell

6th RACE:  10 lap scratch race (3 teams of 6.  Lee, Craig and Ian are
designated domestiques)
1st:  Team #3
-Ian Robinson
-Richard Gilmore
-Sabin Amoriell
-Barry Breffle (1st finisher)
-Jerica Gritsch
-Sabin Amoriell
2nd:  Team #2
-Craig Tuetkin
-Thomas Treharne
-Vern Rotert
-Alex Mertens
-Alan Schmidt
-Mike Ignaffo (2nd finisher)
-Tom Henson
3rd:  Team #1
-Lee Ventiecher
-Tom Treharne
-John Woody
-Bennet Bock
-Jami Hartwig
-Jason Armoriell

7th RACE:  1 lap granny gear race (Lee's suggestion, not mine)
1.  Lee Ventiecher
2.  Barry Breffle
3.  Mike Ignaffo
4.  Craig Tuetkin
5.  Vern Rotert
6.  Richard Gilmore
7.  Jerica Gritsch
8.  Bennet Bock
9.  Alan Schmidt
10.  Alex Mertens
11.  John Woody
12.  Jami Hartwig
13.  Tom Henson
14.  Thomas Treharne
15.  Ian Robinson (Spun so fast he busted a spoke)

Thankyou everyone who showed up to the race, as for the rest of you slackers
out there, I hope to see you at the next oval race.  If there are any
questions or comments concerning the results, please contact me at
<nachotack9@...>.  It's highly possible I have some spots mixed up,
picking a dozen numbers in order out of a sprinting pack isn't quite my
specialty... yet.  Thanks again

Josh Tack

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups – now 3 months FREE!
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

If you haven't already entered the 2004 Iowa Games, click on the link
below and get it done. DO NOT mail in an entry.you're too late. The link
below will be active for a few more days, even though the official
deadline is Wednesday, June 30.

For $20, you can do a TT, MTB, and Road Race. The dates are Friday, July
16 for TT, Saturday July 17 for MTB, and Sunday July 18 for RR. There
isn't a better bargain in Iowa racing! And, this year it's the weekend
before the RAGBRAI start weekend-no conflict.

So, here's the link below. Copy and paste it into your browser and get
the registration stuff taken care of. You can register for all 3 races
from this one link.

http://www.iowagames.org/summer/summergamesentry.asp

For more information about the cycling events, use this link:

http://www.iowagames.org/summer/Cycling.asp

There will be on-site registration at the races, but you will pay a very
high premium. On-site registration is $25 per race, except the MTB race
which is $20! We want riders to pre-register. Pay $20 now if you think
there is a chance you'll do one race and you'll save yourself at least
$5, maybe a lot more if you want to do more than one race.

Feel free to e-mail me if you have questions about the Road Race..J-Lu
(Josh Lukins) is commissioner for the TT; Patrick Alvord is commissioner
for the MTB race.

Randy Catron
USA Cycling Expert Coach, NSCA-CSCS
www.IowaCyclingAcademy.Com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hola~

I've decided to try a different format to the bikeiowa.com updates.

Instead of running new copy every two-three weeks, I'm going to cut to the
chase and update the site as I get new interviews, race updates and RANTS!

The goal is to improve on the quality of the editions and make the reading
quicker and easier!

Always, send me your feedback and ideas for future editions!

Check back early and often to your favorite racing column!

Marco
www.bikeiowa.com
www.dmbikeracing.com

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Irwin's Bike Shop Invitational

Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2004
Time: 5:30PM - 8:00PM CDT (GMT-05:00)

Anyone and Everyone is welcome to attend.  We have Road Rides,
Mountian Rides and Recreational Rides leaving the shop at 5:30pm
every Wed. Night.  Come and Ride - Come and Have Fun.

Best Rides,

Irwins Bike Shop
5500 Merle Hay Road
Johnston IA 50131

I think that might be too easy.  Didn't you see how long Donny's email was.  It
can't be that simple, you have to attack the character of those riding hard and
blame testostorone for people getting dropped.  You have to tell everyone
they're a bad cycling citizen if they aren't focusing all their time on
recruiting new riders.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: pdeninge@...
   To: Chad VandeLune
   Cc: Donny Quixote ; BikeIowa ; CIMS ; IORCA
   Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 1:47 PM
   Subject: Re: [BikeIowa] Why DSM's Tuesday Road Ride Sucks


   I'm not the biggest fan of group rides, but just a suggestion: in IC these
   days, "the" group ride is actually split into "A" and "B"  (and sometimes C)
   rides that meet at different locations and times.  Each ride has its own
agenda
   and most riders will cross over depending on what they feel like doing that
   night.
   If you are really drawing 70 riders on any given night, I'd say it's high time
   you considered this arrangenment as well - for saftey reasons if nothing else.
   I can't imagine a group of 70 clogging the highway and NOT pissing off every
   motorist in their path.

   Paul



   Quoting Chad VandeLune <chadbike1970@...>:

   > My Tuesday road ride story.
   >  The year was 1999. I was a sport class MTBer who
   > wanted to upgrade and all the experts I could think of
   > trained on the road. So I got myself a road bike and
   > started my jurney. First I found someone to help me
   > with the rules. That someone was Kim West. He said
   > just do 3 things and everything else will come in
   > time. 1. Stay close to the front. 2. Pull threw 3. If
   > you can not pull do not sprint. OK I got the bike I
   > got the rules down I'm ready to kick some roadie butt
   > right.
   >  I remember it well. My first TNWC. I got on my bike
   > and went over to Kims for our preride party. Then we
   > made our way over to BW. The group was about 20
   > guys(small compared to 2004). We rolled out of town
   > and the group started to become double file so I
   > stayed close to the front.(rule #1) The riders up
   > front peel off and I take my pull and peel to the
   > back. I decide this is a good time to take a drink and
   > look down for my bottle. Before I could look back up I
   > was off the back. Someone had attacked and I've lost
   > contact. Kim comes back and says get on my wheel. We
   > work and get back on. For the next 20 miles I try my
   > hardest to hang on like a champion wool eater but the
   > man with the hammer hits me and I'm dumped. Spit out
   > the back like yesterdays trash. So there I was riding
   > in alone feeling sorry for myself when it hit me. I
   > was going to be one of the guys at the front turning
   > the screws. Since then I have been at every tnwc that
   > I can make it to and have been dumped alot but when I
   > would get dumped I could not wait for next Tuesday to
   > try and be one of the fast guys. Now 5 years later I
   > can ride to a top 10 finish in the state RR. I do not
   > say this to brag. If not for the competitive nature of
   > the Tuesday ride I might still be that close minded
   > sport class MTBer who thinks all roadies are wimps in
   > tight shorts. It is a great ride for beginner racers
   > not beginner riders. In 5 years I've seen the group
   > get 3 times as big and it seems to me the riders keep
   > getting faster and faster. Why fix something that is
   > working.
   >
   > Long live the TNWC
   > Chad Vande Lune
   >
   > --- Donny Quixote <donnyquixote@...> wrote:
   > > Sure enough, every year some dope has got beef with
   > > the Tuesday
   > > group ride in Des Moines. This year... I'm the dope.
   > >
   > > What I feel is wrong with the Tuesday ride in Des
   > > Moines.
   > >
   > >
   > > 1) The ride does not take into account weather, wind
   > > or time.
   > > Since moving back to Des Moines four years ago I've
   > > done the
   > > Tuesday night ride in Des Moines close to 50 times
   > > and I am sick
   > > of its monotony. Every ride, goes north to Slater,
   > > south through
   > > Polk City and back into Des Moines. Which way is the
   > > wind coming
   > > from? It doesn't matter. When will the sun go down?
   > > It doesn't
   > > matter. Are there hills, lots of turns, road
   > > construction, etc?
   > > It doesn't matter! Des Moines guys do the same
   > > freaking ride,
   > > every freaking Tuesday and it is easily the worst
   > > possible ride
   > > to do!
   > >
   > > The ride is entirely flat. All of the designated
   > > sprints are
   > > either on flat roads or downhill. The traffic sucks
   > > and for a
   > > majority of the rides we battle the wind on the
   > > latter twenty
   > > miles.
   > >
   > > I propose that we have different routes to choose
   > > from. That way
   > > we can take a pseudo vote prior to the ride and
   > > determine which
   > > route will give us the greatest cycling experience
   > > on that day.
   > > Think of it. if the wind is coming from the south we
   > > could make
   > > the ride go into the wind FIRST, and have a tailwind
   > > coming
   > > home! WHAT AN IDEA! We could have a hilly ride, a
   > > flat ride, a
   > > short ride and a long ride. Perhaps we can even see
   > > what is
   > > south of the city? Or west? Maybe we can do the
   > > current ride
   > > backwards? Anything to change it up!
   > >
   > >
   > > 2) Egos in echelons destroy newer and weaker riders!
   > > Crosswinds
   > > on our rides can be horrible and I BLAME MYSELF
   > > FIRST and then
   > > all other experienced riders for allowing the
   > > crosswinds to rip
   > > apart our group. Two or three echelons can move a
   > > lot better
   > > than one long, crappy cluster of riders that leaves
   > > half of us
   > > in the ditch suffering like dogs and the rest over
   > > the
   > > centerline facing oncoming traffic. But every time
   > > I've tried
   > > starting a second echelon, to follow only 10-12 feet
   > > behind the
   > > first, the big-ego-alpha-males can't stand the idea
   > > of being
   > > "behind" (even if only by a few feet) and would
   > > rather suffer in
   > > the ditch and risk riding alone.
   > >
   > > Newer or weaker riders don't know any better. They
   > > are following
   > > our lead and all we are doing is running them into
   > > the ditch and
   > > making them feel slow and unwanted.
   > >
   > > Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we all
   > > slow down or
   > > stop attacking. I completely relate to the idea of,
   > > "I had a bad
   > > day at the office and my goal tonight is to make
   > > other people
   > > suffer". All I'm saying is that when we ARE together
   > > we can be a
   > > hell of a lot more organized than we currently are
   > > and
   > > inadvertently we'll be more welcoming to the newer
   > > and slower
   > > riders.
   > >
   > > We have to use common sense here- our rides can have
   > > as many as
   > > 70 people and it is unsafe for that large of a group
   > > to be
   > > fighting for a slice of road that can only fit 15-20
   > > comfortably.
   > >
   > >
   > > 3) Starting a group ride at a bike shop is stupid!
   > > Maybe I'm the
   > > silly-thinker here, but isn't it a great idea to get
   > > as many NEW
   > > people as possible cycling as often as possible?
   > > Where do we
   > > find these NEW people who are not cycling? Not a
   > > bike shop.
   > > that's where! If we want to spread any word other
   > > than "cyclists
   > > block parts of the road an go a lot slower" then
   > > maybe we should
   > > start and stop our rides somewhere besides a bike
   > > shop. We look
   > > like of a bunch of Jehovah's witnesses who only
   > > knock on the
   > > door of their church. and then are dumbfounded why
   > > people don't
   > > understand them or want to join.
   > >
   > > Let's start our rides at parks, coffee shops, cafes,
   > > gas
   > > stations. I don't care! Just not bike shops.
   > > Somewhere where
   > > someone who isn't a cyclist might take a second to
   > > learn about
   > > what is going on. Lets expose ourselves to other
   > > businesses;
   > > Bike shops are already taking all of our money and
   > > if we started
   > > at say, a café, then that café would learn to love
   > > cyclists.
   > > Maybe even sponsor a local club or team? Maybe
   > > they'll even put
   > > a bike rack in front of their store? And surely
   > > they'd make an
   > > easy $50 from tired cyclists looking for some type
   > > of
   > > nourishment.
   > >
   > > It would be awesome. we would be exposing ourselves
   > > (teams,
   > > clubs and sponsors of) to a new market as a great
   > > group of
   > > people doing a great sport.
   > >
   > >
   > > 4) "Regrouping" is a word that makes many of us
   > > cringe and it
   > > shouldn't. To wait after each sprint (or
   > > predetermined point)
   > > and allow the slower or weaker riders to catch back
   > > on isn't
   > > such a bad idea.
   > >
   > > Many people, myself included, have used the training
   > > ride as a
   > > "training race", practicing tactics, team strategy
   > > and setting
   > > up race simulations. I can't fairly say that there
   > > is anything
   > > wrong with this but we must recognize how
   > > unwelcoming this
   > > mindset is for newer riders, weaker riders or the
   > > ones that
   > > don't have a cluster of teammates in the group.
   > >
   > > Should we regroup entirely at a certain point? I
   > > don't think so.
   > > But I do believe that there should be a neutral zone
   > > where
   > > dropped riders can have a chance to latch back on
   > > and workhorses
   > > are given a brief recovery. As it is, we crank the
   > > effort up
   > > going into Ankeny and don't stop until we hit Merle
   > > Hay Rd (and
   > > please note that I used the word "we" meaning I
   > > understand that
   > > I am guilty of this action).
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > As it is.
   > >
   > > As it is, Until now I have been part of the problem
   > > and not the
   > > solution. I understand that I have fed this monster
   > > as much or
   > > more than anyone else. But I can see it is
   > > approaching the "out
   > > of control" mark. I apologize for this and I would
   > > like to see
   > > it change.
   > >
   > > As it is, the Tuesday World Championships are only
   > > good
   > === message truncated ===
   >
   >
   >
   >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I couldn't agree with Jeremy more.  Great email.

After talking with a couple people and getting their opinion I see that the
problem Donny sees can be fixed by organizing a regroup for all those not in the
front group.  As it is now, if someone does get dropped from the front group
they will most likely be riding by themselves or in a group of no more than 3.

Obviously if we have 50-70 riders starting the ride and 10-20 in the front
group, my question is what are the 40-50 riders not finishing with the front
group doing?  I've heard that Randy and Hammer try to organize a 2nd group but I
think you have to specifically point out where everyone dropped should regroup
before the ride starts.

I think this would give the rider, just hanging on the front group, not able to
pull through, the option of dropping back to the 2nd group and being able to do
more in that group.  Staying with that 2nd group would also be a more attainable
goal for the new riders, giving them more reason to return each week.

That's my 2 cents.

----- Original Message -----
   From: Jeremy Sievers
   To: BikeIowa
   Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:30 AM
   Subject: [BikeIowa] How we can improve on a Tuesday night staple.


   My Thoughts...

   Summary
   - Group Ride? No.
   - Give Credit where it is due.
   - Can it be improved, Yes.
   - A Organizational Challenge.
   - Donny Chill.

   ----------------------------------------------------------------
   I guess I never thought of the Tuesday night ride as a group ride, more of a
   training event. It has been for the last two years I have been involved an
   intimidating hammer fest to talk about for days after. I can easily say the
   Tuesday night rides are harder then many of the races I have done this year
   and I really like that. Do I think that aspect of the ride should change,
   no. Racing isn't always fair, and training on Tuesday isn't either. You mess
   up, you get dropped, you learn something.

   For me...I repeat, For me...I don't think that the Tuesday night ride is
   about furthering cycling in general or bringing our co-workers out for a
   ride. It is about making ME faster and smarter, and ripping off my legs or
   your legs. It is about socializing among fellow racers, creating team
   identity and furthering racing.

   Meeting at a gas station isn't going to recruit racers, it might be a good
   place to meet for alternate routes, but only for logistics not recruitment.

   ----------------------------------------------------------------
   Does the Tuesday night ride further racing for beginners, yes. Randy and
   Hammer have been doing a great job of helping out new riders and teaching
   the group dynamics of echelons. I learned a lot from those first few rides I
   went on last year. If you are blasting away at the front you miss that. They
   wait, they teach and make sure no one gets ditched. I think they need to be
   recognized.

   ----------------------------------------------------------------
   Is there room for improvement on the Tuesday night ride, yes.

   I think there should be some flexibility in regards to the route. I would
   really like to get more hills involved in the ride and less Euclid. I know
   hills suite me, but 3/4 of races have at least 1 defining hill.

   A) Boonville route? (Meet at Raccoon River Park)
   B) Winterset route? (Or close to Winterset route, start at Water Works)
   C) Pleasant Hill route?
   D) Ride the Loop out at Walnut Woods. (Oh yeah, bring the pain)

   I don't know if these are viable options, but I know they ungulate more.

   ----------------------------------------------------------------
   I think the biggest problem with changing this monster of the Tuesday night
   ride is in the organization. Many people, pick up the ride along the way,
   like ahhh....Lisa and I, Dave Ertl and Mark Garner. Changing the route would
   need some serious planning so everyone knows ahead of time where we would be
   going...and who decides that? If anything I think team leaders / directors
   should get together and decide on any routes and possible updates, as well
   as a place to post a schedule as well as maps.

   ----------------------------------------------------------------
   Donny, I see many of your points. I understand you are trying to make some
   changes that would improve our training on Tuesday nights, but try do do it
   a little more politically. Insulting the "tradition" of the Tuesday ride and
   insulting those who bring new riders to Tuesday nights and all ready pick up
   those who get dropped isn't going to bring about change. Writing an email
   that is so exclamatory you need to answer your own objections will surely
   cause objection and split opinion rather then bring about change. Getting
   grassroots support might work better for changing an unorganized grassroots
   training ride.

   ----------------------------------------------------------------

   I am game to make some changes. MWRT any ideas? What have been your
   objections with the Tuesday ride? Marco?...your two cents please. Lane, yeah
   I hear ya*. Randy Catron, chime in. Randy R, you are new to this and have
   done both the Iowa City and DSM rides, your two cents. Any Newbies, give a
   shout.

   * - Lane, seriously, who uses the word "goober"?


   Jeremy Sievers







   On 6/28/04 3:56 PM, "Donny Quixote" <donnyquixote@...> wrote:

   > Sure enough, every year some dope has got beef with the Tuesday
   > group ride in Des Moines. This year... I'm the dope.
   >
   > What I feel is wrong with the Tuesday ride in Des Moines.
   >
   >
   > 1) The ride does not take into account weather, wind or time.
   > Since moving back to Des Moines four years ago I?ve done the
   > Tuesday night ride in Des Moines close to 50 times and I am sick
   > of its monotony. Every ride, goes north to Slater, south through
   > Polk City and back into Des Moines. Which way is the wind coming
   > from? It doesn?t matter. When will the sun go down? It doesn?t
   > matter. Are there hills, lots of turns, road construction, etc?
   > It doesn?t matter! Des Moines guys do the same freaking ride,
   > every freaking Tuesday and it is easily the worst possible ride
   > to do!
   >
   > The ride is entirely flat. All of the designated sprints are
   > either on flat roads or downhill. The traffic sucks and for a
   > majority of the rides we battle the wind on the latter twenty
   > miles.
   >
   > I propose that we have different routes to choose from. That way
   > we can take a pseudo vote prior to the ride and determine which
   > route will give us the greatest cycling experience on that day.
   > Think of it? if the wind is coming from the south we could make
   > the ride go into the wind FIRST, and have a tailwind coming
   > home! WHAT AN IDEA! We could have a hilly ride, a flat ride, a
   > short ride and a long ride. Perhaps we can even see what is
   > south of the city? Or west? Maybe we can do the current ride
   > backwards? Anything to change it up!
   >
   > ?
   > 2) Egos in echelons destroy newer and weaker riders! Crosswinds
   > on our rides can be horrible and I BLAME MYSELF FIRST and then
   > all other experienced riders for allowing the crosswinds to rip
   > apart our group. Two or three echelons can move a lot better
   > than one long, crappy cluster of riders that leaves half of us
   > in the ditch suffering like dogs and the rest over the
   > centerline facing oncoming traffic. But every time I?ve tried
   > starting a second echelon, to follow only 10-12 feet behind the
   > first, the big-ego-alpha-males can?t stand the idea of being
   > ?behind? (even if only by a few feet) and would rather suffer in
   > the ditch and risk riding alone.
   >
   > Newer or weaker riders don?t know any better. They are following
   > our lead and all we are doing is running them into the ditch and
   > making them feel slow and unwanted.
   >
   > Now don?t get me wrong, I?m not saying that we all slow down or
   > stop attacking. I completely relate to the idea of, ?I had a bad
   > day at the office and my goal tonight is to make other people
   > suffer?. All I?m saying is that when we ARE together we can be a
   > hell of a lot more organized than we currently are and
   > inadvertently we?ll be more welcoming to the newer and slower
   > riders.
   >
   > We have to use common sense here- our rides can have as many as
   > 70 people and it is unsafe for that large of a group to be
   > fighting for a slice of road that can only fit 15-20
   > comfortably.
   >
   > ?
   > 3) Starting a group ride at a bike shop is stupid! Maybe I?m the
   > silly-thinker here, but isn?t it a great idea to get as many NEW
   > people as possible cycling as often as possible? Where do we
   > find these NEW people who are not cycling? Not a bike shop?
   > that?s where! If we want to spread any word other than ?cyclists
   > block parts of the road an go a lot slower? then maybe we should
   > start and stop our rides somewhere besides a bike shop. We look
   > like of a bunch of Jehovah?s witnesses who only knock on the
   > door of their church? and then are dumbfounded why people don?t
   > understand them or want to join.
   >
   > Let?s start our rides at parks, coffee shops, cafes, gas
   > stations? I don?t care! Just not bike shops. Somewhere where
   > someone who isn?t a cyclist might take a second to learn about
   > what is going on. Lets expose ourselves to other businesses;
   > Bike shops are already taking all of our money and if we started
   > at say, a caf?, then that caf? would learn to love cyclists.
   > Maybe even sponsor a local club or team? Maybe they?ll even put
   > a bike rack in front of their store? And surely they?d make an
   > easy $50 from tired cyclists looking for some type of
   > nourishment.
   >
   > It would be awesome? we would be exposing ourselves (teams,
   > clubs and sponsors of) to a new market as a great group of
   > people doing a great sport.
   >
   > ?
   > 4) ?Regrouping? is a word that makes many of us cringe and it
   > shouldn?t. To wait after each sprint (or predetermined point)
   > and allow the slower or weaker riders to catch back on isn?t
   > such a bad idea.
   >
   > Many people, myself included, have used the training ride as a
   > ?training race?, practicing tactics, team strategy and setting
   > up race simulations. I can?t fairly say that there is anything
   > wrong with this but we must recognize how unwelcoming this
   > mindset is for newer riders, weaker riders or the ones that
   > don?t have a cluster of teammates in the group.
   >
   > Should we regroup entirely at a certain point? I don?t think so.
   > But I do believe that there should be a neutral zone where
   > dropped riders can have a chance to latch back on and workhorses
   > are given a brief recovery. As it is, we crank the effort up
   > going into Ankeny and don?t stop until we hit Merle Hay Rd (and
   > please note that I used the word ?we? meaning I understand that
   > I am guilty of this action).
   >
   > ?
   >
   > As it is?
   >
   > As it is, Until now I have been part of the problem and not the
   > solution. I understand that I have fed this monster as much or
   > more than anyone else. But I can see it is approaching the ?out
   > of control? mark. I apologize for this and I would like to see
   > it change.
   >
   > As it is, the Tuesday World Championships are only good as a
   > poor man?s motor pace. They offer very little training benefit
   > outside of that as the summer months go on.
   >
   > As it is, I would never invite a new cyclist to the ride. The
   > group is snobbish and relishes in the idea of dropping as many
   > people as possible. If we can?t comfortably invite new people
   > then how will it grow?
   >
   > As it is, we are not establishing our sport (re: bike racing) as
   > something almost anyone can do. With the current structure of
   > this ride, all we are showing a new cyclist is, ?racers have
   > been racers for a long time, if you can?t keep up you must not
   > be a racer?. We demoralize new cyclists with every trip out.
   >
   > As it is, I will opt to go to Iowa City every Tuesday possible
   > to do their Tuesday ride. I would rather sit in a car 3 hours to
   > do a ride that makes sense, is fun and has challenges in the
   > terrain? than ride my bike ten minutes to do the ride in Des
   > Moines.
   >
   >
   > Now I can already see the excuses coming so let me preempt those
   > now:
   >
   > Excuse 1: What are you thinking Donny? We can?t have a different
   > route on our Tuesday ride because there is no easier way out of
   > town.
   >
   > Bull! We don?t have to meet at BW on Merle Hay, we can meet at
   > different points closer to the edge of town. And even if we do
   > go north we don?t always have to use the same roads, do we?
   > Plus, what would it hurt to spend a little extra time on city
   > streets? A group that size keeps itself safe and it helps show
   > the communities that people riding bikes is something to
   > consider.
   >
   > ?
   >
   > Excuse 2: The Tuesday ride is tradition, everyone already knows
   > the route and no one likes change. The process of change will
   > scare people away.
   >
   > Maybe so, but boredom keeps people at home too. The current ride
   > can still be done, I?m only suggesting that we change it up
   > every now and then. I have a hard time understanding how any of
   > the local cats, who have been doing that ride for a decade or
   > more, can honestly say that it is some of the best riding
   > around. I don?t personally know anyone who chooses to do that
   > route when training alone? which tells me that it is a damn
   > boring route to do.???????
   >
   > ?
   >
   > Excuse 3: If you have two echelon groups then not everyone can
   > contest a sprint. It will cause havoc, chaos, crashes, etc.
   >
   > Are the sprints really that important to you? Are you marking
   > down your Tuesday night ride sprint results in the book? The
   > second group can still sprint, they may not be able to win but
   > isn?t the ride about training, not winning.
   >
   > ?
   >
   > Excuse 4: If they would learn to rotate properly they wouldn?t
   > find themselves in the ditch.
   >
   > Possibly. I suggest that you be the first person to roll back
   > there and teach them rather than just riding them into the
   > ground.
   >
   > ?
   >
   > Excuse 5: Starting at a bike shop allows people to get cycling
   > specific supplies before the ride (gels, water bottles, spare
   > tube, etc).
   >
   > It sure does. But being prepared will do the same. How many
   > races do you show up at with plans to stop into the bike shop 15
   > minutes before to buy a second water bottle? If you can prepare
   > yourself for races just fine, you can prepare yourself for a
   > group ride just as well.
   >
   > ?
   >
   > Excuse 6: Kiss my ass Donny! It?s a freaking training ride and I
   > can train on whatever I want. If I want to TT the entire time,
   > that?s my decision and I?ll do whatever I want.
   >
   > Okay then, first- you?re a selfish jerk. And second- of course
   > you can train on whatever you want. I?m not saying that the
   > group should all be training the same. All I?m saying is that
   > you should recognize that YOU ARE IN A GROUP atmosphere and we
   > don?t need to do your workout just like you don?t need to do
   > ours. Besides, if your workout is all about a 30mph, 47-mile,
   > time trial, hammer session with a few downhill sprints, then you
   > should man-up and leave twenty minutes before everyone else and
   > really challenge yourself.
   >
   > ?
   >
   > Reply as you wish, forward this on as you wish, ignore this as
   > you wish, curse me as you wish. This is my two cents and from
   > here on,? I?m done talking about it.
   >
   > DQ
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > Visit the IBRA web page at http://www.BikeIowa.ORG/home.html
   > To Subscribe to this email list, tell your friends to send a blank message
to:
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   >
   >
   >



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not the biggest fan of group rides, but just a suggestion: in IC these
days, "the" group ride is actually split into "A" and "B"  (and sometimes C)
rides that meet at different locations and times.  Each ride has its own agenda
and most riders will cross over depending on what they feel like doing that
night.
If you are really drawing 70 riders on any given night, I'd say it's high time
you considered this arrangenment as well - for saftey reasons if nothing else.
I can't imagine a group of 70 clogging the highway and NOT pissing off every
motorist in their path.

Paul



Quoting Chad VandeLune <chadbike1970@...>:

> My Tuesday road ride story.
>  The year was 1999. I was a sport class MTBer who
> wanted to upgrade and all the experts I could think of
> trained on the road. So I got myself a road bike and
> started my jurney. First I found someone to help me
> with the rules. That someone was Kim West. He said
> just do 3 things and everything else will come in
> time. 1. Stay close to the front. 2. Pull threw 3. If
> you can not pull do not sprint. OK I got the bike I
> got the rules down I'm ready to kick some roadie butt
> right.
>  I remember it well. My first TNWC. I got on my bike
> and went over to Kims for our preride party. Then we
> made our way over to BW. The group was about 20
> guys(small compared to 2004). We rolled out of town
> and the group started to become double file so I
> stayed close to the front.(rule #1) The riders up
> front peel off and I take my pull and peel to the
> back. I decide this is a good time to take a drink and
> look down for my bottle. Before I could look back up I
> was off the back. Someone had attacked and I've lost
> contact. Kim comes back and says get on my wheel. We
> work and get back on. For the next 20 miles I try my
> hardest to hang on like a champion wool eater but the
> man with the hammer hits me and I'm dumped. Spit out
> the back like yesterdays trash. So there I was riding
> in alone feeling sorry for myself when it hit me. I
> was going to be one of the guys at the front turning
> the screws. Since then I have been at every tnwc that
> I can make it to and have been dumped alot but when I
> would get dumped I could not wait for next Tuesday to
> try and be one of the fast guys. Now 5 years later I
> can ride to a top 10 finish in the state RR. I do not
> say this to brag. If not for the competitive nature of
> the Tuesday ride I might still be that close minded
> sport class MTBer who thinks all roadies are wimps in
> tight shorts. It is a great ride for beginner racers
> not beginner riders. In 5 years I've seen the group
> get 3 times as big and it seems to me the riders keep
> getting faster and faster. Why fix something that is
> working.
>
> Long live the TNWC
> Chad Vande Lune
>
> --- Donny Quixote <donnyquixote@...> wrote:
> > Sure enough, every year some dope has got beef with
> > the Tuesday
> > group ride in Des Moines. This year... I'm the dope.
> >
> > What I feel is wrong with the Tuesday ride in Des
> > Moines.
> >
> >
> > 1) The ride does not take into account weather, wind
> > or time.
> > Since moving back to Des Moines four years ago I’ve
> > done the
> > Tuesday night ride in Des Moines close to 50 times
> > and I am sick
> > of its monotony. Every ride, goes north to Slater,
> > south through
> > Polk City and back into Des Moines. Which way is the
> > wind coming
> > from? It doesn’t matter. When will the sun go down?
> > It doesn’t
> > matter. Are there hills, lots of turns, road
> > construction, etc?
> > It doesn’t matter! Des Moines guys do the same
> > freaking ride,
> > every freaking Tuesday and it is easily the worst
> > possible ride
> > to do!
> >
> > The ride is entirely flat. All of the designated
> > sprints are
> > either on flat roads or downhill. The traffic sucks
> > and for a
> > majority of the rides we battle the wind on the
> > latter twenty
> > miles.
> >
> > I propose that we have different routes to choose
> > from. That way
> > we can take a pseudo vote prior to the ride and
> > determine which
> > route will give us the greatest cycling experience
> > on that day.
> > Think of it… if the wind is coming from the south we
> > could make
> > the ride go into the wind FIRST, and have a tailwind
> > coming
> > home! WHAT AN IDEA! We could have a hilly ride, a
> > flat ride, a
> > short ride and a long ride. Perhaps we can even see
> > what is
> > south of the city? Or west? Maybe we can do the
> > current ride
> > backwards? Anything to change it up!
> >
> >  
> > 2) Egos in echelons destroy newer and weaker riders!
> > Crosswinds
> > on our rides can be horrible and I BLAME MYSELF
> > FIRST and then
> > all other experienced riders for allowing the
> > crosswinds to rip
> > apart our group. Two or three echelons can move a
> > lot better
> > than one long, crappy cluster of riders that leaves
> > half of us
> > in the ditch suffering like dogs and the rest over
> > the
> > centerline facing oncoming traffic. But every time
> > I’ve tried
> > starting a second echelon, to follow only 10-12 feet
> > behind the
> > first, the big-ego-alpha-males can’t stand the idea
> > of being
> > “behind” (even if only by a few feet) and would
> > rather suffer in
> > the ditch and risk riding alone.
> >
> > Newer or weaker riders don’t know any better. They
> > are following
> > our lead and all we are doing is running them into
> > the ditch and
> > making them feel slow and unwanted.
> >
> > Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that we all
> > slow down or
> > stop attacking. I completely relate to the idea of,
> > “I had a bad
> > day at the office and my goal tonight is to make
> > other people
> > suffer”. All I’m saying is that when we ARE together
> > we can be a
> > hell of a lot more organized than we currently are
> > and
> > inadvertently we’ll be more welcoming to the newer
> > and slower
> > riders.
> >
> > We have to use common sense here- our rides can have
> > as many as
> > 70 people and it is unsafe for that large of a group
> > to be
> > fighting for a slice of road that can only fit 15-20
> > comfortably.
> >
> >  
> > 3) Starting a group ride at a bike shop is stupid!
> > Maybe I’m the
> > silly-thinker here, but isn’t it a great idea to get
> > as many NEW
> > people as possible cycling as often as possible?
> > Where do we
> > find these NEW people who are not cycling? Not a
> > bike shop…
> > that’s where! If we want to spread any word other
> > than “cyclists
> > block parts of the road an go a lot slower” then
> > maybe we should
> > start and stop our rides somewhere besides a bike
> > shop. We look
> > like of a bunch of Jehovah’s witnesses who only
> > knock on the
> > door of their church… and then are dumbfounded why
> > people don’t
> > understand them or want to join.
> >
> > Let’s start our rides at parks, coffee shops, cafes,
> > gas
> > stations… I don’t care! Just not bike shops.
> > Somewhere where
> > someone who isn’t a cyclist might take a second to
> > learn about
> > what is going on. Lets expose ourselves to other
> > businesses;
> > Bike shops are already taking all of our money and
> > if we started
> > at say, a café, then that café would learn to love
> > cyclists.
> > Maybe even sponsor a local club or team? Maybe
> > they’ll even put
> > a bike rack in front of their store? And surely
> > they’d make an
> > easy $50 from tired cyclists looking for some type
> > of
> > nourishment.
> >
> > It would be awesome… we would be exposing ourselves
> > (teams,
> > clubs and sponsors of) to a new market as a great
> > group of
> > people doing a great sport.
> >
> >  
> > 4) “Regrouping” is a word that makes many of us
> > cringe and it
> > shouldn’t. To wait after each sprint (or
> > predetermined point)
> > and allow the slower or weaker riders to catch back
> > on isn’t
> > such a bad idea.
> >
> > Many people, myself included, have used the training
> > ride as a
> > “training race”, practicing tactics, team strategy
> > and setting
> > up race simulations. I can’t fairly say that there
> > is anything
> > wrong with this but we must recognize how
> > unwelcoming this
> > mindset is for newer riders, weaker riders or the
> > ones that
> > don’t have a cluster of teammates in the group.
> >
> > Should we regroup entirely at a certain point? I
> > don’t think so.
> > But I do believe that there should be a neutral zone
> > where
> > dropped riders can have a chance to latch back on
> > and workhorses
> > are given a brief recovery. As it is, we crank the
> > effort up
> > going into Ankeny and don’t stop until we hit Merle
> > Hay Rd (and
> > please note that I used the word “we” meaning I
> > understand that
> > I am guilty of this action).
> >
> >  
> >
> > As it is…
> >
> > As it is, Until now I have been part of the problem
> > and not the
> > solution. I understand that I have fed this monster
> > as much or
> > more than anyone else. But I can see it is
> > approaching the “out
> > of control” mark. I apologize for this and I would
> > like to see
> > it change.
> >
> > As it is, the Tuesday World Championships are only
> > good
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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Don't do it Donny!!  Keep listening to those little voices inside your head,
keep on speaking your mind. Peace

Squirrel


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My Tuesday road ride story.
  The year was 1999. I was a sport class MTBer who
wanted to upgrade and all the experts I could think of
trained on the road. So I got myself a road bike and
started my jurney. First I found someone to help me
with the rules. That someone was Kim West. He said
just do 3 things and everything else will come in
time. 1. Stay close to the front. 2. Pull threw 3. If
you can not pull do not sprint. OK I got the bike I
got the rules down I'm ready to kick some roadie butt
right.
  I remember it well. My first TNWC. I got on my bike
and went over to Kims for our preride party. Then we
made our way over to BW. The group was about 20
guys(small compared to 2004). We rolled out of town
and the group started to become double file so I
stayed close to the front.(rule #1) The riders up
front peel off and I take my pull and peel to the
back. I decide this is a good time to take a drink and
look down for my bottle. Before I could look back up I
was off the back. Someone had attacked and I've lost
contact. Kim comes back and says get on my wheel. We
work and get back on. For the next 20 miles I try my
hardest to hang on like a champion wool eater but the
man with the hammer hits me and I'm dumped. Spit out
the back like yesterdays trash. So there I was riding
in alone feeling sorry for myself when it hit me. I
was going to be one of the guys at the front turning
the screws. Since then I have been at every tnwc that
I can make it to and have been dumped alot but when I
would get dumped I could not wait for next Tuesday to
try and be one of the fast guys. Now 5 years later I
can ride to a top 10 finish in the state RR. I do not
say this to brag. If not for the competitive nature of
the Tuesday ride I might still be that close minded
sport class MTBer who thinks all roadies are wimps in
tight shorts. It is a great ride for beginner racers
not beginner riders. In 5 years I've seen the group
get 3 times as big and it seems to me the riders keep
getting faster and faster. Why fix something that is
working.

Long live the TNWC
Chad Vande Lune

--- Donny Quixote <donnyquixote@...> wrote:
> Sure enough, every year some dope has got beef with
> the Tuesday
> group ride in Des Moines. This year... I'm the dope.
>
> What I feel is wrong with the Tuesday ride in Des
> Moines.
>
>
> 1) The ride does not take into account weather, wind
> or time.
> Since moving back to Des Moines four years ago I’ve
> done the
> Tuesday night ride in Des Moines close to 50 times
> and I am sick
> of its monotony. Every ride, goes north to Slater,
> south through
> Polk City and back into Des Moines. Which way is the
> wind coming
> from? It doesn’t matter. When will the sun go down?
> It doesn’t
> matter. Are there hills, lots of turns, road
> construction, etc?
> It doesn’t matter! Des Moines guys do the same
> freaking ride,
> every freaking Tuesday and it is easily the worst
> possible ride
> to do!
>
> The ride is entirely flat. All of the designated
> sprints are
> either on flat roads or downhill. The traffic sucks
> and for a
> majority of the rides we battle the wind on the
> latter twenty
> miles.
>
> I propose that we have different routes to choose
> from. That way
> we can take a pseudo vote prior to the ride and
> determine which
> route will give us the greatest cycling experience
> on that day.
> Think of it… if the wind is coming from the south we
> could make
> the ride go into the wind FIRST, and have a tailwind
> coming
> home! WHAT AN IDEA! We could have a hilly ride, a
> flat ride, a
> short ride and a long ride. Perhaps we can even see
> what is
> south of the city? Or west? Maybe we can do the
> current ride
> backwards? Anything to change it up!
>
>  
> 2) Egos in echelons destroy newer and weaker riders!
> Crosswinds
> on our rides can be horrible and I BLAME MYSELF
> FIRST and then
> all other experienced riders for allowing the
> crosswinds to rip
> apart our group. Two or three echelons can move a
> lot better
> than one long, crappy cluster of riders that leaves
> half of us
> in the ditch suffering like dogs and the rest over
> the
> centerline facing oncoming traffic. But every time
> I’ve tried
> starting a second echelon, to follow only 10-12 feet
> behind the
> first, the big-ego-alpha-males can’t stand the idea
> of being
> “behind” (even if only by a few feet) and would
> rather suffer in
> the ditch and risk riding alone.
>
> Newer or weaker riders don’t know any better. They
> are following
> our lead and all we are doing is running them into
> the ditch and
> making them feel slow and unwanted.
>
> Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that we all
> slow down or
> stop attacking. I completely relate to the idea of,
> “I had a bad
> day at the office and my goal tonight is to make
> other people
> suffer”. All I’m saying is that when we ARE together
> we can be a
> hell of a lot more organized than we currently are
> and
> inadvertently we’ll be more welcoming to the newer
> and slower
> riders.
>
> We have to use common sense here- our rides can have
> as many as
> 70 people and it is unsafe for that large of a group
> to be
> fighting for a slice of road that can only fit 15-20
> comfortably.
>
>  
> 3) Starting a group ride at a bike shop is stupid!
> Maybe I’m the
> silly-thinker here, but isn’t it a great idea to get
> as many NEW
> people as possible cycling as often as possible?
> Where do we
> find these NEW people who are not cycling? Not a
> bike shop…
> that’s where! If we want to spread any word other
> than “cyclists
> block parts of the road an go a lot slower” then
> maybe we should
> start and stop our rides somewhere besides a bike
> shop. We look
> like of a bunch of Jehovah’s witnesses who only
> knock on the
> door of their church… and then are dumbfounded why
> people don’t
> understand them or want to join.
>
> Let’s start our rides at parks, coffee shops, cafes,
> gas
> stations… I don’t care! Just not bike shops.
> Somewhere where
> someone who isn’t a cyclist might take a second to
> learn about
> what is going on. Lets expose ourselves to other
> businesses;
> Bike shops are already taking all of our money and
> if we started
> at say, a café, then that café would learn to love
> cyclists.
> Maybe even sponsor a local club or team? Maybe
> they’ll even put
> a bike rack in front of their store? And surely
> they’d make an
> easy $50 from tired cyclists looking for some type
> of
> nourishment.
>
> It would be awesome… we would be exposing ourselves
> (teams,
> clubs and sponsors of) to a new market as a great
> group of
> people doing a great sport.
>
>  
> 4) “Regrouping” is a word that makes many of us
> cringe and it
> shouldn’t. To wait after each sprint (or
> predetermined point)
> and allow the slower or weaker riders to catch back
> on isn’t
> such a bad idea.
>
> Many people, myself included, have used the training
> ride as a
> “training race”, practicing tactics, team strategy
> and setting
> up race simulations. I can’t fairly say that there
> is anything
> wrong with this but we must recognize how
> unwelcoming this
> mindset is for newer riders, weaker riders or the
> ones that
> don’t have a cluster of teammates in the group.
>
> Should we regroup entirely at a certain point? I
> don’t think so.
> But I do believe that there should be a neutral zone
> where
> dropped riders can have a chance to latch back on
> and workhorses
> are given a brief recovery. As it is, we crank the
> effort up
> going into Ankeny and don’t stop until we hit Merle
> Hay Rd (and
> please note that I used the word “we” meaning I
> understand that
> I am guilty of this action).
>
>  
>
> As it is…
>
> As it is, Until now I have been part of the problem
> and not the
> solution. I understand that I have fed this monster
> as much or
> more than anyone else. But I can see it is
> approaching the “out
> of control” mark. I apologize for this and I would
> like to see
> it change.
>
> As it is, the Tuesday World Championships are only
> good
=== message truncated ===




__________________________________
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My Thoughts...

Summary
- Group Ride? No.
- Give Credit where it is due.
- Can it be improved, Yes.
- A Organizational Challenge.
- Donny Chill.

----------------------------------------------------------------
I guess I never thought of the Tuesday night ride as a group ride, more of a
training event. It has been for the last two years I have been involved an
intimidating hammer fest to talk about for days after. I can easily say the
Tuesday night rides are harder then many of the races I have done this year
and I really like that. Do I think that aspect of the ride should change,
no. Racing isn't always fair, and training on Tuesday isn't either. You mess
up, you get dropped, you learn something.

For me...I repeat, For me...I don't think that the Tuesday night ride is
about furthering cycling in general or bringing our co-workers out for a
ride. It is about making ME faster and smarter, and ripping off my legs or
your legs. It is about socializing among fellow racers, creating team
identity and furthering racing.

Meeting at a gas station isn't going to recruit racers, it might be a good
place to meet for alternate routes, but only for logistics not recruitment.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Does the Tuesday night ride further racing for beginners, yes. Randy and
Hammer have been doing a great job of helping out new riders and teaching
the group dynamics of echelons. I learned a lot from those first few rides I
went on last year. If you are blasting away at the front you miss that. They
wait, they teach and make sure no one gets ditched. I think they need to be
recognized.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Is there room for improvement on the Tuesday night ride, yes.

I think there should be some flexibility in regards to the route. I would
really like to get more hills involved in the ride and less Euclid. I know
hills suite me, but 3/4 of races have at least 1 defining hill.

A) Boonville route? (Meet at Raccoon River Park)
B) Winterset route? (Or close to Winterset route, start at Water Works)
C) Pleasant Hill route?
D) Ride the Loop out at Walnut Woods. (Oh yeah, bring the pain)

I don't know if these are viable options, but I know they ungulate more.

----------------------------------------------------------------
I think the biggest problem with changing this monster of the Tuesday night
ride is in the organization. Many people, pick up the ride along the way,
like ahhh....Lisa and I, Dave Ertl and Mark Garner. Changing the route would
need some serious planning so everyone knows ahead of time where we would be
going...and who decides that? If anything I think team leaders / directors
should get together and decide on any routes and possible updates, as well
as a place to post a schedule as well as maps.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Donny, I see many of your points. I understand you are trying to make some
changes that would improve our training on Tuesday nights, but try do do it
a little more politically. Insulting the "tradition" of the Tuesday ride and
insulting those who bring new riders to Tuesday nights and all ready pick up
those who get dropped isn't going to bring about change. Writing an email
that is so exclamatory you need to answer your own objections will surely
cause objection and split opinion rather then bring about change. Getting
grassroots support might work better for changing an unorganized grassroots
training ride.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I am game to make some changes. MWRT any ideas? What have been your
objections with the Tuesday ride? Marco?...your two cents please. Lane, yeah
I hear ya*. Randy Catron, chime in. Randy R, you are new to this and have
done both the Iowa City and DSM rides, your two cents. Any Newbies, give a
shout.

* - Lane, seriously, who uses the word "goober"?


Jeremy Sievers







On 6/28/04 3:56 PM, "Donny Quixote" <donnyquixote@...> wrote:

> Sure enough, every year some dope has got beef with the Tuesday
> group ride in Des Moines. This year... I'm the dope.
>
> What I feel is wrong with the Tuesday ride in Des Moines.
>
>
> 1) The ride does not take into account weather, wind or time.
> Since moving back to Des Moines four years ago I?ve done the
> Tuesday night ride in Des Moines close to 50 times and I am sick
> of its monotony. Every ride, goes north to Slater, south through
> Polk City and back into Des Moines. Which way is the wind coming
> from? It doesn?t matter. When will the sun go down? It doesn?t
> matter. Are there hills, lots of turns, road construction, etc?
> It doesn?t matter! Des Moines guys do the same freaking ride,
> every freaking Tuesday and it is easily the worst possible ride
> to do!
>
> The ride is entirely flat. All of the designated sprints are
> either on flat roads or downhill. The traffic sucks and for a
> majority of the rides we battle the wind on the latter twenty
> miles.
>
> I propose that we have different routes to choose from. That way
> we can take a pseudo vote prior to the ride and determine which
> route will give us the greatest cycling experience on that day.
> Think of it? if the wind is coming from the south we could make
> the ride go into the wind FIRST, and have a tailwind coming
> home! WHAT AN IDEA! We could have a hilly ride, a flat ride, a
> short ride and a long ride. Perhaps we can even see what is
> south of the city? Or west? Maybe we can do the current ride
> backwards? Anything to change it up!
>
> ?
> 2) Egos in echelons destroy newer and weaker riders! Crosswinds
> on our rides can be horrible and I BLAME MYSELF FIRST and then
> all other experienced riders for allowing the crosswinds to rip
> apart our group. Two or three echelons can move a lot better
> than one long, crappy cluster of riders that leaves half of us
> in the ditch suffering like dogs and the rest over the
> centerline facing oncoming traffic. But every time I?ve tried
> starting a second echelon, to follow only 10-12 feet behind the
> first, the big-ego-alpha-males can?t stand the idea of being
> ?behind? (even if only by a few feet) and would rather suffer in
> the ditch and risk riding alone.
>
> Newer or weaker riders don?t know any better. They are following
> our lead and all we are doing is running them into the ditch and
> making them feel slow and unwanted.
>
> Now don?t get me wrong, I?m not saying that we all slow down or
> stop attacking. I completely relate to the idea of, ?I had a bad
> day at the office and my goal tonight is to make other people
> suffer?. All I?m saying is that when we ARE together we can be a
> hell of a lot more organized than we currently are and
> inadvertently we?ll be more welcoming to the newer and slower
> riders.
>
> We have to use common sense here- our rides can have as many as
> 70 people and it is unsafe for that large of a group to be
> fighting for a slice of road that can only fit 15-20
> comfortably.
>
> ?
> 3) Starting a group ride at a bike shop is stupid! Maybe I?m the
> silly-thinker here, but isn?t it a great idea to get as many NEW
> people as possible cycling as often as possible? Where do we
> find these NEW people who are not cycling? Not a bike shop?
> that?s where! If we want to spread any word other than ?cyclists
> block parts of the road an go a lot slower? then maybe we should
> start and stop our rides somewhere besides a bike shop. We look
> like of a bunch of Jehovah?s witnesses who only knock on the
> door of their church? and then are dumbfounded why people don?t
> understand them or want to join.
>
> Let?s start our rides at parks, coffee shops, cafes, gas
> stations? I don?t care! Just not bike shops. Somewhere where
> someone who isn?t a cyclist might take a second to learn about
> what is going on. Lets expose ourselves to other businesses;
> Bike shops are already taking all of our money and if we started
> at say, a caf?, then that caf? would learn to love cyclists.
> Maybe even sponsor a local club or team? Maybe they?ll even put
> a bike rack in front of their store? And surely they?d make an
> easy $50 from tired cyclists looking for some type of
> nourishment.
>
> It would be awesome? we would be exposing ourselves (teams,
> clubs and sponsors of) to a new market as a great group of
> people doing a great sport.
>
> ?
> 4) ?Regrouping? is a word that makes many of us cringe and it
> shouldn?t. To wait after each sprint (or predetermined point)
> and allow the slower or weaker riders to catch back on isn?t
> such a bad idea.
>
> Many people, myself included, have used the training ride as a
> ?training race?, practicing tactics, team strategy and setting
> up race simulations. I can?t fairly say that there is anything
> wrong with this but we must recognize how unwelcoming this
> mindset is for newer riders, weaker riders or the ones that
> don?t have a cluster of teammates in the group.
>
> Should we regroup entirely at a certain point? I don?t think so.
> But I do believe that there should be a neutral zone where
> dropped riders can have a chance to latch back on and workhorses
> are given a brief recovery. As it is, we crank the effort up
> going into Ankeny and don?t stop until we hit Merle Hay Rd (and
> please note that I used the word ?we? meaning I understand that
> I am guilty of this action).
>
> ?
>
> As it is?
>
> As it is, Until now I have been part of the problem and not the
> solution. I understand that I have fed this monster as much or
> more than anyone else. But I can see it is approaching the ?out
> of control? mark. I apologize for this and I would like to see
> it change.
>
> As it is, the Tuesday World Championships are only good as a
> poor man?s motor pace. They offer very little training benefit
> outside of that as the summer months go on.
>
> As it is, I would never invite a new cyclist to the ride. The
> group is snobbish and relishes in the idea of dropping as many
> people as possible. If we can?t comfortably invite new people
> then how will it grow?
>
> As it is, we are not establishing our sport (re: bike racing) as
> something almost anyone can do. With the current structure of
> this ride, all we are showing a new cyclist is, ?racers have
> been racers for a long time, if you can?t keep up you must not
> be a racer?. We demoralize new cyclists with every trip out.
>
> As it is, I will opt to go to Iowa City every Tuesday possible
> to do their Tuesday ride. I would rather sit in a car 3 hours to
> do a ride that makes sense, is fun and has challenges in the
> terrain? than ride my bike ten minutes to do the ride in Des
> Moines.
>
>
> Now I can already see the excuses coming so let me preempt those
> now:
>
> Excuse 1: What are you thinking Donny? We can?t have a different
> route on our Tuesday ride because there is no easier way out of
> town.
>
> Bull! We don?t have to meet at BW on Merle Hay, we can meet at
> different points closer to the edge of town. And even if we do
> go north we don?t always have to use the same roads, do we?
> Plus, what would it hurt to spend a little extra time on city
> streets? A group that size keeps itself safe and it helps show
> the communities that people riding bikes is something to
> consider.
>
> ?
>
> Excuse 2: The Tuesday ride is tradition, everyone already knows
> the route and no one likes change. The process of change will
> scare people away.
>
> Maybe so, but boredom keeps people at home too. The current ride
> can still be done, I?m only suggesting that we change it up
> every now and then. I have a hard time understanding how any of
> the local cats, who have been doing that ride for a decade or
> more, can honestly say that it is some of the best riding
> around. I don?t personally know anyone who chooses to do that
> route when training alone? which tells me that it is a damn
> boring route to do.???????
>
> ?
>
> Excuse 3: If you have two echelon groups then not everyone can
> contest a sprint. It will cause havoc, chaos, crashes, etc.
>
> Are the sprints really that important to you? Are you marking
> down your Tuesday night ride sprint results in the book? The
> second group can still sprint, they may not be able to win but
> isn?t the ride about training, not winning.
>
> ?
>
> Excuse 4: If they would learn to rotate properly they wouldn?t
> find themselves in the ditch.
>
> Possibly. I suggest that you be the first person to roll back
> there and teach them rather than just riding them into the
> ground.
>
> ?
>
> Excuse 5: Starting at a bike shop allows people to get cycling
> specific supplies before the ride (gels, water bottles, spare
> tube, etc).
>
> It sure does. But being prepared will do the same. How many
> races do you show up at with plans to stop into the bike shop 15
> minutes before to buy a second water bottle? If you can prepare
> yourself for races just fine, you can prepare yourself for a
> group ride just as well.
>
> ?
>
> Excuse 6: Kiss my ass Donny! It?s a freaking training ride and I
> can train on whatever I want. If I want to TT the entire time,
> that?s my decision and I?ll do whatever I want.
>
> Okay then, first- you?re a selfish jerk. And second- of course
> you can train on whatever you want. I?m not saying that the
> group should all be training the same. All I?m saying is that
> you should recognize that YOU ARE IN A GROUP atmosphere and we
> don?t need to do your workout just like you don?t need to do
> ours. Besides, if your workout is all about a 30mph, 47-mile,
> time trial, hammer session with a few downhill sprints, then you
> should man-up and leave twenty minutes before everyone else and
> really challenge yourself.
>
> ?
>
> Reply as you wish, forward this on as you wish, ignore this as
> you wish, curse me as you wish. This is my two cents and from
> here on,? I?m done talking about it.
>
> DQ
>
>
>
>
>
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I gotta laugh! Looks like Donny's gettin' his wish... the route will have
to change tonight...I've heard that the mile long bridge is closed today!
I think there is a hill on 419 south of Polk City, too!!! Have fun! Dave

On behalf of myself and my family, I just wanted to extend a big "thank
you" to everyone who attended the race on Sunday.  A special thanks to
Bruce, the officials, and Chain Reaction for all the work they do to put
the race on.  It's a huge amount of work and a gift to those of us who
just show up to race.



I mentioned to Lowell that I felt bad not getting the chance to talk to
a number of 'old school' people whose names I saw in the results, but
wasn't quick enough on the uptake to spot them on the road.  I hope to
talk to everyone next year.



It's always great to see so many people turn out, and our family is
touched by having the 1/2/3 race named in my brother's honor.  I'm
impressed by how many people are willing to test their will and legs on
a course that is clearly national caliber.  I never did ride very many
mountain road races (in the few years that I did anything that could be
called racing), but I think this course is at least as difficult as any
I've done, including those over 3 mountain passes.  It's epic...



Safe riding to everyone for the rest of the summer!



Blue skies,



Paul



P.S. thanks for the ride, Lowell!  I'll keep my eyes peeled for a heart
rate monitor that has 4-digit, or scientific notation read out for the
two of us to use next year!



-----Original Message-----
From: merack2001 [mailto:mguthart@...]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:27 PM
To: bikeiowa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BikeIowa] State RR "Snafus" :)



I would like to thank Bruce and everyone else who volunteered to help

with the state RR. Despite the couple of results snafus, I think

everyone had a good time and I heard nothing but raves about the

course. Having raced with Dan back in the Ordinary Bike Shop days, I

think he would have enjoyed it as well. Nice job Bruce!



There are a couple of corrections to the results that were posted on

the web site. I believe they were all correct at the bar, but may have

gotten overlooked in the data entry/transfer process possibly? Anyway...



- Lane did in fact finish. He came in ahead of Chris Reed and behind

Steve Goetzelman, putting him in 16th place overall in the 1/2/3 race.

I  enjoyed seeing his expression across the line, although I'm not

sure if it was pain, relief, or a combination of the two. :)



- Ryan Jacobsen also finished in the 4/5 race. You may notice there is

no 5th place listed online in this race. It was Ryan. He was announced

as 5th at the awards ceremony but listed as DNF in the online results.



- Jeff Yielding also finished the 4/5 race and should be listed as

33rd rather than DNF. I would especially like to congratulate Jeff as

it is his first year racing and while he unfortunately found himself

out on his own for about 1.5 laps I give him credit for sticking with

it. (Don't worry Jeff - I've been there before myself!).



In respect to Lowell and Paul's finish. The fact that there wasn't an

official present at the finish line is my fault as well. I had

actually been there waiting with Paul's family/cheering squad through

a couple of false alarms that we thought were you. Unfortunately I was

pulled away speaking with some other riders and was unable to get back

during your actual finish.



I bring this up mainly because I agree with Lowell - every rider who

has not yet finished deserves the same treatment whether they are off

the front, in the pack, or off the back. Beyond the results

themselves, there are also more important safety issues to take into

consideration as well.



I appreciate Paul's commitment to honoring Dan and Lowell's commitment

to the sport as a whole both by racing and by his work mentoring

junior racers. I look forward to seeing and working with both of you

at other races and at the next Dan Bockenstedt Cup.



As a side note - for those of you who may have missed my posting a

ways back - Dan was unanimously elected to the IBRA Hall of Fame

earlier this year. Information and photos about Dan can be found on

the bikeiowa.org website.



Thanks for reading!



Mark A. Guthart












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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Donny, your truly my hero. Well said. I liked this the best:

Excuse 2: The Tuesday ride is tradition, everyone already knows
the route and no one likes change. The process of change will
scare people away.

Maybe so, but boredom keeps people at home too. The current ride
can still be done, I'm only suggesting that we change it up
every now and then. I have a hard time understanding how any of
the local cats, who have been doing that ride for a decade or
more, can honestly say that it is some of the best riding
around. I don't personally know anyone who chooses to do that
route when training alone... which tells me that it is a damn
boring route to do.


Peace bro,
Squirrel

I'm no sprinter but l'll be there Thurs. I promise.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's ok John Jason has that covered for all of Iowa.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Adamson" <adamsonjohn@...>
To: "merack2001" <mguthart@...>
Cc: <bikeiowa@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [BikeIowa] State RR "Snafus" :)


> This is great - people speaking their mind in a  public forum.  And what
> a great day of racing.  But, I am a little pissed that I won't be going
> to Athens.
>
>
>
>
> Visit the IBRA web page at http://www.BikeIowa.ORG/home.html
> To Subscribe to this email list, tell your friends to send a blank message
to: bikeiowa-subscribe@YaHooGroups.com
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bikeiowa-unsubscribe@YaHooGroups.com
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>
>
>
>
>

This is great - people speaking their mind in a  public forum.  And what
a great day of racing.  But, I am a little pissed that I won't be going
to Athens.

I love the DSM Tues night rides just as they are.

Donny's email is so far off base I can't believe he wasted as much
time as he had to have typing it.

Sure it may be ideal to ride a different route each week but even if
the route is the same, things like wind, riders, how you want to
ride all change the ride.  BW is centrally located, 25 minutes from
everywhere in the metro and easily accessible to the Amesites and
Booners.  Everyone can come out to Altoona and ride, we'd have
plenty of routes, but do the WDMers want to drive 45 minutes each
way to get there?  I doubt it.

No one is pushing the pace only for the purpose of humiliating
slower riders as Donny implies.  For me, and I assume almost
everyone else, the Tues night ride is the hardest ride of the week,
we want to push the pace for training purposes.

We also aren't over here practicing teamwork on a group ride like a
bunch of goobers, I don't know where Donny got that from.

I don't believe that anyone with the competitive desire to race a
bicycle really wants to be pandered to and waited for.  I may be
wrong but we bike racers like to take our beatings and come back the
next week for more.

Only the truly beginner rider can't at least hang on for the first
15 miles of this ride, then, with 70 starters, there should be small
groups to ride with, without the front guys having to intentionally
regroup.

I have ridden the Iowa City training ride too and the only
difference is that IC rides different routes.  The DSM metro has a
half million people living in it compared to a fifth of that in the
IC metro, we're going to have to make some sacrifices in terms of
route for 70 riders.

I am happy that I can get a great training ride in Des Moines.  I
think an overwhelming majority of us would say the ride has improved
greatly over the past 5 years.


As for your other email, Donny, I will be there Thurs night your
crit is great training, even though it IS on the same course every
week for 15 straight weeks;) Hopefully MRT and ISU will take the
challenge.


--- In bikeiowa@yahoogroups.com, Donny Quixote <donnyquixote@y...>
wrote:
> Sure enough, every year some dope has got beef with the Tuesday
> group ride in Des Moines. This year... I'm the dope.
>
> What I feel is wrong with the Tuesday ride in Des Moines.
>
>
> 1) The ride does not take into account weather, wind or time.
> Since moving back to Des Moines four years ago I've done the
> Tuesday night ride in Des Moines close to 50 times and I am sick
> of its monotony. Every ride, goes north to Slater, south through
> Polk City and back into Des Moines. Which way is the wind coming
> from? It doesn't matter. When will the sun go down? It doesn't
> matter. Are there hills, lots of turns, road construction, etc?
> It doesn't matter! Des Moines guys do the same freaking ride,
> every freaking Tuesday and it is easily the worst possible ride
> to do!
>
> The ride is entirely flat. All of the designated sprints are
> either on flat roads or downhill. The traffic sucks and for a
> majority of the rides we battle the wind on the latter twenty
> miles.
>
> I propose that we have different routes to choose from. That way
> we can take a pseudo vote prior to the ride and determine which
> route will give us the greatest cycling experience on that day.
> Think of it… if the wind is coming from the south we could make
> the ride go into the wind FIRST, and have a tailwind coming
> home! WHAT AN IDEA! We could have a hilly ride, a flat ride, a
> short ride and a long ride. Perhaps we can even see what is
> south of the city? Or west? Maybe we can do the current ride
> backwards? Anything to change it up!
>
>  
> 2) Egos in echelons destroy newer and weaker riders! Crosswinds
> on our rides can be horrible and I BLAME MYSELF FIRST and then
> all other experienced riders for allowing the crosswinds to rip
> apart our group. Two or three echelons can move a lot better
> than one long, crappy cluster of riders that leaves half of us
> in the ditch suffering like dogs and the rest over the
> centerline facing oncoming traffic. But every time I've tried
> starting a second echelon, to follow only 10-12 feet behind the
> first, the big-ego-alpha-males can't stand the idea of being
> "behind" (even if only by a few feet) and would rather suffer in
> the ditch and risk riding alone.
>
> Newer or weaker riders don't know any better. They are following
> our lead and all we are doing is running them into the ditch and
> making them feel slow and unwanted.
>
> Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we all slow down or
> stop attacking. I completely relate to the idea of, "I had a bad
> day at the office and my goal tonight is to make other people
> suffer". All I'm saying is that when we ARE together we can be a
> hell of a lot more organized than we currently are and
> inadvertently we'll be more welcoming to the newer and slower
> riders.
>
> We have to use common sense here- our rides can have as many as
> 70 people and it is unsafe for that large of a group to be
> fighting for a slice of road that can only fit 15-20
> comfortably.
>
>  
> 3) Starting a group ride at a bike shop is stupid! Maybe I'm the
> silly-thinker here, but isn't it a great idea to get as many NEW
> people as possible cycling as often as possible? Where do we
> find these NEW people who are not cycling? Not a bike shop…
> that's where! If we want to spread any word other than "cyclists
> block parts of the road an go a lot slower" then maybe we should
> start and stop our rides somewhere besides a bike shop. We look
> like of a bunch of Jehovah's witnesses who only knock on the
> door of their church… and then are dumbfounded why people don't
> understand them or want to join.
>
> Let's start our rides at parks, coffee shops, cafes, gas
> stations… I don't care! Just not bike shops. Somewhere where
> someone who isn't a cyclist might take a second to learn about
> what is going on. Lets expose ourselves to other businesses;
> Bike shops are already taking all of our money and if we started
> at say, a café, then that café would learn to love cyclists.
> Maybe even sponsor a local club or team? Maybe they'll even put
> a bike rack in front of their store? And surely they'd make an
> easy $50 from tired cyclists looking for some type of
> nourishment.
>
> It would be awesome… we would be exposing ourselves (teams,
> clubs and sponsors of) to a new market as a great group of
> people doing a great sport.
>
>  
> 4) "Regrouping" is a word that makes many of us cringe and it
> shouldn't. To wait after each sprint (or predetermined point)
> and allow the slower or weaker riders to catch back on isn't
> such a bad idea.
>
> Many people, myself included, have used the training ride as a
> "training race", practicing tactics, team strategy and setting
> up race simulations. I can't fairly say that there is anything
> wrong with this but we must recognize how unwelcoming this
> mindset is for newer riders, weaker riders or the ones that
> don't have a cluster of teammates in the group.
>
> Should we regroup entirely at a certain point? I don't think so.
> But I do believe that there should be a neutral zone where
> dropped riders can have a chance to latch back on and workhorses
> are given a brief recovery. As it is, we crank the effort up
> going into Ankeny and don't stop until we hit Merle Hay Rd (and
> please note that I used the word "we" meaning I understand that
> I am guilty of this action).
>
>  
>
> As it is…
>
> As it is, Until now I have been part of the problem and not the
> solution. I understand that I have fed this monster as much or
> more than anyone else. But I can see it is approaching the "out
> of control" mark. I apologize for this and I would like to see
> it change.
>
> As it is, the Tuesday World Championships are only good as a
> poor man's motor pace. They offer very little training benefit
> outside of that as the summer months go on.
>
> As it is, I would never invite a new cyclist to the ride. The
> group is snobbish and relishes in the idea of dropping as many
> people as possible. If we can't comfortably invite new people
> then how will it grow?
>
> As it is, we are not establishing our sport (re: bike racing) as
> something almost anyone can do. With the current structure of
> this ride, all we are showing a new cyclist is, "racers have
> been racers for a long time, if you can't keep up you must not
> be a racer". We demoralize new cyclists with every trip out.
>
> As it is, I will opt to go to Iowa City every Tuesday possible
> to do their Tuesday ride. I would rather sit in a car 3 hours to
> do a ride that makes sense, is fun and has challenges in the
> terrain… than ride my bike ten minutes to do the ride in Des
> Moines.
>
>
> Now I can already see the excuses coming so let me preempt those
> now:
>
> Excuse 1: What are you thinking Donny? We can't have a different
> route on our Tuesday ride because there is no easier way out of
> town.
>
> Bull! We don't have to meet at BW on Merle Hay, we can meet at
> different points closer to the edge of town. And even if we do
> go north we don't always have to use the same roads, do we?
> Plus, what would it hurt to spend a little extra time on city
> streets? A group that size keeps itself safe and it helps show
> the communities that people riding bikes is something to
> consider.
>
>  
>
> Excuse 2: The Tuesday ride is tradition, everyone already knows
> the route and no one likes change. The process of change will
> scare people away.
>
> Maybe so, but boredom keeps people at home too. The current ride
> can still be done, I'm only suggesting that we change it up
> every now and then. I have a hard time understanding how any of
> the local cats, who have been doing that ride for a decade or
> more, can honestly say that it is some of the best riding
> around. I don't personally know anyone who chooses to do that
> route when training alone… which tells me that it is a damn
> boring route to do.       
>
>  
>
> Excuse 3: If you have two echelon groups then not everyone can
> contest a sprint. It will cause havoc, chaos, crashes, etc.
>
> Are the sprints really that important to you? Are you marking
> down your Tuesday night ride sprint results in the book? The
> second group can still sprint, they may not be able to win but
> isn't the ride about training, not winning.
>
>  
>
> Excuse 4: If they would learn to rotate properly they wouldn't
> find themselves in the ditch.
>
> Possibly. I suggest that you be the first person to roll back
> there and teach them rather than just riding them into the
> ground.
>
>  
>
> Excuse 5: Starting at a bike shop allows people to get cycling
> specific supplies before the ride (gels, water bottles, spare
> tube, etc).
>
> It sure does. But being prepared will do the same. How many
> races do you show up at with plans to stop into the bike shop 15
> minutes before to buy a second water bottle? If you can prepare
> yourself for races just fine, you can prepare yourself for a
> group ride just as well.
>
>  
>
> Excuse 6: Kiss my ass Donny! It's a freaking training ride and I
> can train on whatever I want. If I want to TT the entire time,
> that's my decision and I'll do whatever I want.
>
> Okay then, first- you're a selfish jerk. And second- of course
> you can train on whatever you want. I'm not saying that the
> group should all be training the same. All I'm saying is that
> you should recognize that YOU ARE IN A GROUP atmosphere and we
> don't need to do your workout just like you don't need to do
> ours. Besides, if your workout is all about a 30mph, 47-mile,
> time trial, hammer session with a few downhill sprints, then you
> should man-up and leave twenty minutes before everyone else and
> really challenge yourself.
>
>  
>
> Reply as you wish, forward this on as you wish, ignore this as
> you wish, curse me as you wish. This is my two cents and from
> here on,  I'm done talking about it.
>
> DQ

I would like to thank Bruce and everyone else who volunteered to help
with the state RR. Despite the couple of results snafus, I think
everyone had a good time and I heard nothing but raves about the
course. Having raced with Dan back in the Ordinary Bike Shop days, I
think he would have enjoyed it as well. Nice job Bruce!

There are a couple of corrections to the results that were posted on
the web site. I believe they were all correct at the bar, but may have
gotten overlooked in the data entry/transfer process possibly? Anyway...

- Lane did in fact finish. He came in ahead of Chris Reed and behind
Steve Goetzelman, putting him in 16th place overall in the 1/2/3 race.
I  enjoyed seeing his expression across the line, although I'm not
sure if it was pain, relief, or a combination of the two. :)

- Ryan Jacobsen also finished in the 4/5 race. You may notice there is
no 5th place listed online in this race. It was Ryan. He was announced
as 5th at the awards ceremony but listed as DNF in the online results.

- Jeff Yielding also finished the 4/5 race and should be listed as
33rd rather than DNF. I would especially like to congratulate Jeff as
it is his first year racing and while he unfortunately found himself
out on his own for about 1.5 laps I give him credit for sticking with
it. (Don't worry Jeff - I've been there before myself!).

In respect to Lowell and Paul's finish. The fact that there wasn't an
official present at the finish line is my fault as well. I had
actually been there waiting with Paul's family/cheering squad through
a couple of false alarms that we thought were you. Unfortunately I was
pulled away speaking with some other riders and was unable to get back
during your actual finish.

I bring this up mainly because I agree with Lowell - every rider who
has not yet finished deserves the same treatment whether they are off
the front, in the pack, or off the back. Beyond the results
themselves, there are also more important safety issues to take into
consideration as well.

I appreciate Paul's commitment to honoring Dan and Lowell's commitment
to the sport as a whole both by racing and by his work mentoring
junior racers. I look forward to seeing and working with both of you
at other races and at the next Dan Bockenstedt Cup.

As a side note - for those of you who may have missed my posting a
ways back - Dan was unanimously elected to the IBRA Hall of Fame
earlier this year. Information and photos about Dan can be found on
the bikeiowa.org website.

Thanks for reading!

Mark A. Guthart

Thanks for all the responses.  Now my wife will believe me, just
kidding.

Thanks for putting on the race.  I like the new course


--- In bikeiowa@yahoogroups.com, dlburman@m... wrote:
> I was the chief official for the Bockenstedt Cup.  With the new
course we
> experienced some new issues in starting gaps and finishing. All 4
groups
> on the course at that time finished within 15 minutes of one
another. With
> the sheer number of finshers and the small gaps between them and
the
> mixing of groups I went away from the finish and left Mark Guthart
to
> record finishers so I could get to sorting things out.
>
> I did post a bit prematurely because of the possible weather
(looked like
> rain) and to get people on the road. The money places mainly, but
i tried to
> post as deep as I had finishers at that time.
>
> I went back to Mark at least once and got a list of further
finishers, but
> didn't get back enough. I was wondering about Lane as I had him
tracked
> throughout the event. I'll contact Mark and see if there were
others I
> missed and reflect them as well.
>
> The fault rests enrirely with me, and I will first apologize, then
correct the
> results for  Bike Iowa, ROY, The fed and all mankind.
>
>
> Dave Burman

Dave:

Thanks for the reply.  I think Bruce does an outstanding effort in keeping
the memory of Dan a live year after year.  Bruce and the Chain Reaction Bicycle
Club run one of the best true road races year after year.  So far I have
competed in every Dan Bockenstedt Cup and hope to continue to do so every year. 
I
even was proud to bring one of our ISCorp juniors to this years race.  I know
the number of riders each year is relatively low due to the rigor the course
demands on riders so many don't bother racing the IA RR Championships.
However, those that do show up should be given the same opportunities as those
that
are capable of doing very well.  I appreciate what the officials do and I have
been there as well as an official.  I commented to Paul prior to the start
that there were a lot of officials at the event.  I can remember the days when
the only official at IA RR Championships was Tom Clayton.  Too bad Paul and I
couldn't have at least one official to score our finish.  Again, I appreciate
your reply and in no way am I upset nor do I intend to make anyone upset.  I
just think that we all need to be more cognizant of who's left out on the course
before officials and corner marshals pack up and leave.  Paul and I felt
abandoned and we were doing our best to honor his brother by not being listed as
DNF.

Lowell


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MATCH SPRINT MADDNESS!

So you think you got a sprint? Got a little bit of a kick? Then
prove it! This Thursday at the Union Park Criterium in Des
Moines we will be having match sprints. Where riders go head to
head in a one lap (700m) sprintfest!

All information can be found at http://www.quixotecycling.com


On a similar note...

What do you do when somebody holds a bike race in your backyard?
Do you:

A.Completely ignore that it is happening and watch television.
B.Realize it is happening and make the decision to not do it.
C.Do the freaking race, because it doesn’t get much easier and
you are a bike racer aren’t you?

If you’re not a member of DMOS, Rasmussen or QCP… I am
challenging you to come do next week’s criterium. If you do not
wish to do these criteriums then I challenge you to tell me why
(ISU and MRT, I’m looking at you).

But let me first give you my replies to the common excuses.

Excuse 1: The entry fee ($15) is too high.

The Night at the Oval in Cedar Rapids, which runs a nearly
identical race series to the one I am hosting charges $15 as
well. The National Sports Center Velodrome in Blaine, MN charges
$15 for their night of racing. The Northbrook Velodrome outside
of Chicagp and the Washington Park Velodrome in Kenosha charge
$20 for their night of racing.

$15 will be the cheapest any senior or master racer will pay for
a criterium all year. I challenge you to find one cheaper with a
prize purse.

Excuse 2: It is hard for me to make it there right after work.

I have said that I open registration at 5:15 and I close it
5:45- races start at 6:00. However, since I’m learning as I go
it would be more appropriate to say (based on the 3 races so
far) that races start at 6:15 and registration closes at 6:14.
That gives you over an hour after the 5 o’clock whistle to get
to Union Park which is only 5 minutes from downtown Des Moines,
20 minutes from West Des Moines and 40 minutes from downtown
Ames.

Directions to the course can be found at
http://www.quixotecycling.com

Excuse 3: Criteriums are dangerous and no fun.

Yes, sometimes people crash in criteriums but they almost always
crash in corners. The Union Park Criterium course has no sharp
turns and the format of the races create a safer dynamic than
your standard criterium. You are risking just as much injury
doing the Tuesday group ride as you are racing these criteriums.


Excuse 4: I don’t understand the races.

Yes, there are many different types of races and they can be a
bit confusing. Which is why I have thoroughly explained all the
races on the QCP website and to all racers prior to each race.
Plus, once you do it, you never have to learn it again.

Excuse 5: There are no Rider of the Year points.

Correct, there are no points awarded to Iowa Rider of the Year.
I believe that it would be unfair to hold a local race series,
that is next to impossible for people more than an hour away to
attend, and reward the attendees in a statewide competition.
Yes, there are other race series that do this but I am making a
stand here saying that our state’s ROY is based on attendance
rather than talent.  I do not wish to support that current
structure.

This is me calling you out!

Here are the results from the third race of the Union Park
Criterium Series. A great time was had by all! See you Thursday.

Miss & Out:
1. Lou Waugaman / QCP-Trek
2. Nathan Bartels / QCP-Trek
3. Doug Reichardt / Big Ring Racing
4. Donny Quixote / QCP-Trek
5. Dave Ertl / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
6. Matt Gumm / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
7. Jim Robidoux / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
8. Thad Neil / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
9. Marc Hollander / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
10. John Newell / Rasmussen Bike Shop
11. Taylor Webb / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
12. Kurt Hantelman / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
13. Doug Klahsen / DMOS Mortgage Solutions

Win & Out:
1. Randy Reichardt / QCP-Trek
2. Lou Waugaman / QCP-Trek
3. Nathan Bartels / QCP-Trek
4. Dave Ertl / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
5. Doug Reichardt / No-Pain-No-Gain Cycling
6. Jim Robidoux / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
7. Everyone Else

Super-Easy-Gear-Leg-Spinner-One-Lap-Sprint:
1. Lou Waugaman / QCP-Trek
2. Everyone Else

25-Lap Points Race:
1. Randy Reichardt (26pts +1 Lap) / QCP-Trek
2. Lou Waugaman (17 pts +1 Lap) / QCP-Trek
3. Nathan Bartels (12 pts +1 Lap) / QCP-Trek
4. Donny Quixote (3pts +1 Lap) / QCP-Trek
5. Doug Reichardt (8pts) / Sleep In My Chamois Bike Club
6. Doug Klahsen / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
7. Jim Robidoux / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
8. Kurt Hantelman / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
9. Thad Neil / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
10. Dave Ertl / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
11.  Matt Gumm / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
12. John Newell / Rasmussen Bike Shop
13. Taylor Webb / DMOS Mortgage Solutions
14. Marc Hollander / DMOS Mortgage Solutions


Overall Standings

Category A
Lou Waugaman/ QCP-Trek: 52pts
Nate Bartels/ QCP-Trek: 26pts
Wes Hartman / Team Mack: 22pts
Jeremy Seivers / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 20pts
Randy Reichardt / QCP-Trek: 15pts
Chad Vandelune / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 8pts
Donny Quixote / QCP-Trek: 7pts
Tom Eaton / Iowa State University: 7pts
Lane Anderson / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 7pts
Dave Ertl / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 6pts
Cam Kirkpatrick / QCP-Trek: 5pts
Marc Hollander / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 4pts

Category B
Kurt Hantelmann / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 42pts
Thad Neil / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 37pts
Doug Reichardt / Rather Be In Okoboji Racing: 22pts
Doug Klahsen / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 18pts
Jim Robidoux / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 12pts
Randy Catron / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 10pts
Ross Schuhardt / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 9pts
Paul Jensen / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 9pts
Matt Gumm / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 9pts
Jim Logan / Rasmussen Bike Shop: 7pts
Lisa Vetterlein / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 6pts
Taylor Webb / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 6pts
John Newell / Rasmussen Bike Shop: 6pts
Sean Noonan / DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 4pts
Andy Lueck / Rasmussen Bike Shop: 2pts
Kyle Sedore / Toyota Irwins: 1pt
Brian Pottorff / Rasmussen Bike Shop: 1pt
Pete Basso / Rasmussen Bike Shop: 1pt

Team Category
DMOS Mortgage Solutions: 206pts
QCP-Trek: 105pts
Team Mack: 22pts
Rasmussen Bike Shop: 17pts
Iowa State University: 7pts
Toyota Irwins: 1pt

I was the chief official for the Bockenstedt Cup.  With the new course we
experienced some new issues in starting gaps and finishing. All 4 groups
on the course at that time finished within 15 minutes of one another. With
the sheer number of finshers and the small gaps between them and the
mixing of groups I went away from the finish and left Mark Guthart to
record finishers so I could get to sorting things out.

I did post a bit prematurely because of the possible weather (looked like
rain) and to get people on the road. The money places mainly, but i tried to
post as deep as I had finishers at that time.

I went back to Mark at least once and got a list of further finishers, but
didn't get back enough. I was wondering about Lane as I had him tracked
throughout the event. I'll contact Mark and see if there were others I
missed and reflect them as well.

The fault rests enrirely with me, and I will first apologize, then correct the
results for  Bike Iowa, ROY, The fed and all mankind.


Dave Burman

Sure enough, every year some dope has got beef with the Tuesday
group ride in Des Moines. This year... I'm the dope.

What I feel is wrong with the Tuesday ride in Des Moines.


1) The ride does not take into account weather, wind or time.
Since moving back to Des Moines four years ago I’ve done the
Tuesday night ride in Des Moines close to 50 times and I am sick
of its monotony. Every ride, goes north to Slater, south through
Polk City and back into Des Moines. Which way is the wind coming
from? It doesn’t matter. When will the sun go down? It doesn’t
matter. Are there hills, lots of turns, road construction, etc?
It doesn’t matter! Des Moines guys do the same freaking ride,
every freaking Tuesday and it is easily the worst possible ride
to do!

The ride is entirely flat. All of the designated sprints are
either on flat roads or downhill. The traffic sucks and for a
majority of the rides we battle the wind on the latter twenty
miles.

I propose that we have different routes to choose from. That way
we can take a pseudo vote prior to the ride and determine which
route will give us the greatest cycling experience on that day.
Think of it… if the wind is coming from the south we could make
the ride go into the wind FIRST, and have a tailwind coming
home! WHAT AN IDEA! We could have a hilly ride, a flat ride, a
short ride and a long ride. Perhaps we can even see what is
south of the city? Or west? Maybe we can do the current ride
backwards? Anything to change it up!

 
2) Egos in echelons destroy newer and weaker riders! Crosswinds
on our rides can be horrible and I BLAME MYSELF FIRST and then
all other experienced riders for allowing the crosswinds to rip
apart our group. Two or three echelons can move a lot better
than one long, crappy cluster of riders that leaves half of us
in the ditch suffering like dogs and the rest over the
centerline facing oncoming traffic. But every time I’ve tried
starting a second echelon, to follow only 10-12 feet behind the
first, the big-ego-alpha-males can’t stand the idea of being
“behind” (even if only by a few feet) and would rather suffer in
the ditch and risk riding alone.

Newer or weaker riders don’t know any better. They are following
our lead and all we are doing is running them into the ditch and
making them feel slow and unwanted.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that we all slow down or
stop attacking. I completely relate to the idea of, “I had a bad
day at the office and my goal tonight is to make other people
suffer”. All I’m saying is that when we ARE together we can be a
hell of a lot more organized than we currently are and
inadvertently we’ll be more welcoming to the newer and slower
riders.

We have to use common sense here- our rides can have as many as
70 people and it is unsafe for that large of a group to be
fighting for a slice of road that can only fit 15-20
comfortably.

 
3) Starting a group ride at a bike shop is stupid! Maybe I’m the
silly-thinker here, but isn’t it a great idea to get as many NEW
people as possible cycling as often as possible? Where do we
find these NEW people who are not cycling? Not a bike shop…
that’s where! If we want to spread any word other than “cyclists
block parts of the road an go a lot slower” then maybe we should
start and stop our rides somewhere besides a bike shop. We look
like of a bunch of Jehovah’s witnesses who only knock on the
door of their church… and then are dumbfounded why people don’t
understand them or want to join.

Let’s start our rides at parks, coffee shops, cafes, gas
stations… I don’t care! Just not bike shops. Somewhere where
someone who isn’t a cyclist might take a second to learn about
what is going on. Lets expose ourselves to other businesses;
Bike shops are already taking all of our money and if we started
at say, a café, then that café would learn to love cyclists.
Maybe even sponsor a local club or team? Maybe they’ll even put
a bike rack in front of their store? And surely they’d make an
easy $50 from tired cyclists looking for some type of
nourishment.

It would be awesome… we would be exposing ourselves (teams,
clubs and sponsors of) to a new market as a great group of
people doing a great sport.

 
4) “Regrouping” is a word that makes many of us cringe and it
shouldn’t. To wait after each sprint (or predetermined point)
and allow the slower or weaker riders to catch back on isn’t
such a bad idea.

Many people, myself included, have used the training ride as a
“training race”, practicing tactics, team strategy and setting
up race simulations. I can’t fairly say that there is anything
wrong with this but we must recognize how unwelcoming this
mindset is for newer riders, weaker riders or the ones that
don’t have a cluster of teammates in the group.

Should we regroup entirely at a certain point? I don’t think so.
But I do believe that there should be a neutral zone where
dropped riders can have a chance to latch back on and workhorses
are given a brief recovery. As it is, we crank the effort up
going into Ankeny and don’t stop until we hit Merle Hay Rd (and
please note that I used the word “we” meaning I understand that
I am guilty of this action).

 

As it is…

As it is, Until now I have been part of the problem and not the
solution. I understand that I have fed this monster as much or
more than anyone else. But I can see it is approaching the “out
of control” mark. I apologize for this and I would like to see
it change.

As it is, the Tuesday World Championships are only good as a
poor man’s motor pace. They offer very little training benefit
outside of that as the summer months go on.

As it is, I would never invite a new cyclist to the ride. The
group is snobbish and relishes in the idea of dropping as many
people as possible. If we can’t comfortably invite new people
then how will it grow?

As it is, we are not establishing our sport (re: bike racing) as
something almost anyone can do. With the current structure of
this ride, all we are showing a new cyclist is, “racers have
been racers for a long time, if you can’t keep up you must not
be a racer”. We demoralize new cyclists with every trip out.

As it is, I will opt to go to Iowa City every Tuesday possible
to do their Tuesday ride. I would rather sit in a car 3 hours to
do a ride that makes sense, is fun and has challenges in the
terrain… than ride my bike ten minutes to do the ride in Des
Moines.


Now I can already see the excuses coming so let me preempt those
now:

Excuse 1: What are you thinking Donny? We can’t have a different
route on our Tuesday ride because there is no easier way out of
town.

Bull! We don’t have to meet at BW on Merle Hay, we can meet at
different points closer to the edge of town. And even if we do
go north we don’t always have to use the same roads, do we?
Plus, what would it hurt to spend a little extra time on city
streets? A group that size keeps itself safe and it helps show
the communities that people riding bikes is something to
consider.

 

Excuse 2: The Tuesday ride is tradition, everyone already knows
the route and no one likes change. The process of change will
scare people away.

Maybe so, but boredom keeps people at home too. The current ride
can still be done, I’m only suggesting that we change it up
every now and then. I have a hard time understanding how any of
the local cats, who have been doing that ride for a decade or
more, can honestly say that it is some of the best riding
around. I don’t personally know anyone who chooses to do that
route when training alone… which tells me that it is a damn
boring route to do.       

 

Excuse 3: If you have two echelon groups then not everyone can
contest a sprint. It will cause havoc, chaos, crashes, etc.

Are the sprints really that important to you? Are you marking
down your Tuesday night ride sprint results in the book? The
second group can still sprint, they may not be able to win but
isn’t the ride about training, not winning.

 

Excuse 4: If they would learn to rotate properly they wouldn’t
find themselves in the ditch.

Possibly. I suggest that you be the first person to roll back
there and teach them rather than just riding them into the
ground.

 

Excuse 5: Starting at a bike shop allows people to get cycling
specific supplies before the ride (gels, water bottles, spare
tube, etc).

It sure does. But being prepared will do the same. How many
races do you show up at with plans to stop into the bike shop 15
minutes before to buy a second water bottle? If you can prepare
yourself for races just fine, you can prepare yourself for a
group ride just as well.

 

Excuse 6: Kiss my ass Donny! It’s a freaking training ride and I
can train on whatever I want. If I want to TT the entire time,
that’s my decision and I’ll do whatever I want.

Okay then, first- you’re a selfish jerk. And second- of course
you can train on whatever you want. I’m not saying that the
group should all be training the same. All I’m saying is that
you should recognize that YOU ARE IN A GROUP atmosphere and we
don’t need to do your workout just like you don’t need to do
ours. Besides, if your workout is all about a 30mph, 47-mile,
time trial, hammer session with a few downhill sprints, then you
should man-up and leave twenty minutes before everyone else and
really challenge yourself.

 

Reply as you wish, forward this on as you wish, ignore this as
you wish, curse me as you wish. This is my two cents and from
here on,  I’m done talking about it.

DQ

Lane,
	 I was standing next to Mark Guthart when you finished and know that
he congratulated you and marked your number down.  My hat is off to all of
you who did the 82 mile race and finished.  Good job!!
		 Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: Lane Anderson [mailto:laneanderson74@...]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 1:09 PM
To: bikeiowa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BikeIowa] Lane Anderson-Not DNF at State RR


I know I have expressed my opinion that if someone places lowly in a race,
they shouldn't complain if they aren't placed.  That being said, it is
different when someone finishes a race and they are in the results as a DNF.
I know the officials even saw me finish, probably because they were
surprised.  I don't remember the last time I finished a long road race when
I was out of contention, but I suffered through that last lap this time only
to have a couple people I talked to this morning say "I saw you DNF'd the
State RR".




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Same thing happened to Paul Bockenstedt and I.  We finished the fourth of
four laps without corner marshals and no officials in sight at the finish.  Race
results were already posted when I hunted down an official to tell them that
Paul and I had finished and in what order.  I didn't drive from Milwaukee to
DNF.  I will not DNF in a race in Dan's Honor.  I even asked if they were going
to use criterium rules or road race rules for the event prior to the start.
In a road race you have to finish the whole distance, in a criterium you finish
on the same lap of the leaders.  The promoter/cheif referee can decide what
rules (appropriate) they want to apply for the event.  The officials told me
road race rules so I decided not to sit and drink soda at the soda machine on
the far side of the course like I do every year to get lapped.  I would rather
finish a lap down than DNF'd.  To some this may not seem honorable but I guess
few people ride the track.  All in all I had a good beating, got to ride with
Paul all day, and no one got hurt (that I'm aware of).

Lowell Kellogg, ISCorp Junior/Espoir Cycling Team Coach (and sometimes rider)
Menomonee Falls, WI


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