"John A. Ardelli" <gelfling@...> wrote:
On May 1, 2004, at 1:05 AM, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

> On the subject of how cycling clothes look, as a male cyclist I think
> that
> cycling clothes look really good on women cyclists :)

OK... I have to say, amen to THAT... :P

John A. Ardelli




Even women who cycle up till 9 and a half months pregnant?

People stopped in the street to look....

Shyrley



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When their combined I.Q. is less than their individual hat size, you
really have to wonder!

Jim G
.......................................
Ranj wrote .

> . far too many first cousins were forced to marry-- with tragic
results.
>
>Legally, these folks are as dumb as paint.
>

On May 1, 2004, at 1:05 AM, Bijan Soleymani wrote:

> On the subject of how cycling clothes look, as a male cyclist I think
> that
> cycling clothes look really good on women cyclists :)

OK... I have to say, amen to THAT... :P

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 12:11:46AM -0300, John A. Ardelli wrote:
> On Apr 30, 2004, at 11:42 AM, crkjlaw@... wrote:
>
> > In any event, what I wear on my bike rides is dictated by experience.
> > I once did a 50 mile road/trail ride in street shorts. Couldn't walk
> > right for more than a week. Never, ever again!
>
> You know, truth be told, as much as I love cycling, I've never actually
> worn cycling ATTIRE.  I generally just wear conventional clothes.  I DO
> find aches and pains developing on longer rides, though.
>
> Does cycling clothing REALLY make THAT much of a difference?

The only cycling attire I wear are padded cycling gloves and they really
make a huge difference for me. Before I'd started wearing them I'd lose
all sensation in the ends of my fingers on longer rides, and after a
few days of long riding my wrists would ache terribly. Since I started
wearing gloves these problems went away and I actually go about 5 km/h
faster than before (since hitting bumps at higher speeds REALLY hurt,
and could almost make me lose control going downhill). Also not so important
but in warmer weather my hands would get all sweaty and I'd have trouble
holding on to the handlebars (of course I could just stop and wipe my
hands :).

I'm thinking of getting a pair of shorts myself.

On the subject of how cycling clothes look, as a male cyclist I think that
cycling clothes look really good on women cyclists :) I can only hope that
women aren't put off by the gay colours :)

Bijan
--
Bijan Soleymani <bijan@...>
http://www.crasseux.com

On Apr 30, 2004, at 11:42 AM, crkjlaw@... wrote:

> In any event, what I wear on my bike rides is dictated by experience.
> I once did a 50 mile road/trail ride in street shorts. Couldn't walk
> right for more than a week. Never, ever again!

You know, truth be told, as much as I love cycling, I've never actually
worn cycling ATTIRE.  I generally just wear conventional clothes.  I DO
find aches and pains developing on longer rides, though.

Does cycling clothing REALLY make THAT much of a difference?

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

Bob Bayn wrote:
Darn, in addition to my P-38 recumbent, I also had a P-38 can opener
until a recent airline flight (not on a p-38 airplane) when the
airport security decided that my can opener was a threat.

SB:
Not to worry, click on the URL below and get a new P-38, or maybe
even a P-51 (the Cadillac of the Can Openers). As well as more
stories on their threat to aviation safety.

http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/page52.shtml

Stanley

Trivia Note: Cadillac quote above is a variation of the best line in
the Spielberg movie "Empire of the Sun".

Hi Cricket.
>>> I don't need a trike, I need a bicycle seat that is far more
comfortable. I can walk most of the time, and really can't sit
comfortably. I can't sit in any kind of seat or chair comfortable. <<<

Is there any position, in any chair, that's comfortable for you; say,
leaning forward in a stiff chair, or slouching all the way back in a soft
couch?  Once you find a position that suits you, then many of us on this
list can help you find the seat and bike to match.  That's one of the great
things about bikes; there's almost always a way for anyone to bike, if they
perservere in finding it.

>>> There are a few bicycles for people in wheelchairs. They are peddle
power and are pretty good as far as I know. I've never used one... <<<

I wasn't happy with the one I got for my father. The front wheels lost
traction on even slight hills so badly that it wouldn't steer at all.  His
recumbent trike is much easier and much more fun to ride.  His biggest
problem with it is that I steal it all the time for me to ride because it's
so fun!  So now I'm looking to buy my own 'bent trike. I don't need one
physically -- they're just fun, and as good as any other good bike for
reliable transport and personal independence.

=====
Thank you for your thought and consideration.  And thank you for bicycling!

Ms. Lauren Cooper, Director
National Equal Rights for Cyclists Campaign     www.CycleMedia.org

== Most people think the law says to ride as far right as possible.  It doesn't.
That is part of a sentence, taken out of context, which in most states has
always been: "ride as far right as safely practicable,  *EXCEPT*  when passing
or turning left;  or to avoid objects, parked cars, moving vehicles,
pedestrians, animals, surface or other hazards;  or when in a vehicle lane too
narrow to safely share."
For these exceptions, which occur on every ride, cyclists *don't* stay right. 
The law requires that they politely *merge* left and ride nearer the center of a
vehicle lane until any hazards are past -- just as any safe driver must do. 
Please understand that there is only one general rule in the law for safe
bicycling, and it requires that safe bicyclists behave the same as safe drivers.
==




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Stanley wrote, in part:
>   ... Heck, if so inclined, you can even
>fantasize your machine can deal with traffic bogeys
>(wayward motorists or "incompetent" bicyclists, your
>choice in the same fashion as a P-38 (one 20mm Hispano
>cannon or the 4 .50 cal machine guns.) Making pretend
>I am driving a car when bicycling would be the
>equivalent of riding a P-38 can opener.

Darn, in addition to my P-38 recumbent, I also had
a P-38 can opener until a recent airline flight
(not on a p-38 airplane) when the airport security
decided that my can opener was a threat.   It was
the same airport where I inadvertently carried on
a 2 inch razor blade which they _almost_ found and
I really blanched later when I realized what that
beeping was trying to tell them.

When bicycling, I never pretend I'm driving a car.
I'd look especially silly trying to parallel park.

--
Bob Bayn             http://cc.usu.edu/~bob/     o
AUS/N&CS           I just can't picture having   \__^\=*
Utah State Univ     fun by burning gasoline.   (O)""""o

--- In bicyclingadvocacy@yahoogroups.com, bob.bayn@u... wrote:

> I gleefully rode my Lightning P-38 recumbent for a number
> of years before I noticed that the Hill Air Force Base
> Museum in Ogden Utah also has a Lightning P-38 on display.
> The WWII veteran volunteer near that display didn't believe
> that I also owned a P-38 and wasn't impressed when he
> learned that mine was merely a bike.

Shows what he doesn't know!

Steve

Last summer, I did a short, 80 mile (40 each way), tour wearing khakis
and was pleasantly surprised to find I was comfortable the entire time.
   I guess it matters more how the pants are constructed and where the
seams are.  Plus, I live in the southwest, and I am sure the low
humidity is a help.

I did just purchase a pair of Kucharik wool cycling shorts.  (They
arrived in the mail just minutes ago)  They are not quite so tight as
the lycra, at least I don't think they are -- I've never owned a pair
of cycling shorts in my life.  I am riding, with my kids, to a birthday
party 30 miles outside of town.  I'll let you know if I'm a convert to
bicycling shorts after a 60 mile, 70 pound load day.

Paul Cooley


> In any event, what I wear on my bike rides is dictated by experience.
> I once
> did a 50 mile road/trail ride in street shorts. Couldn't walk right
> for more
> than a week. Never, ever again!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Ranj wrote:

> I also do not make vroom-vroom sounds, Stanley.
> I far prefer the "eeeeourrrowww" noises of WW2
> fighter planes. It fits the sensation a lot better.

SB:
You have hit the nail on the head. I also find that
the sense of freedom and maneuverability that comes
with bicycle riding as I know it is closer to
imaginary flight, and certainly more enabling, than
driving an automobile IAW the mandates/regimen of the
Rule Book. Heck, if so inclined, you can even
fantasize your machine can deal with traffic bogeys
(wayward motorists or "incompetent" bicyclists, your
choice in the same fashion as a P-38 (one 20mm Hispano
cannon or the 4 .50 cal machine guns.) Making pretend
I am driving a car when bicycling would be the
equivalent of riding a P-38 can opener.

A bicyclist can enjoy a bicycle ride in so many
different ways including many imagined/simulated
scenarios. If a handful of cyclists like to make
pretend that they are driving automobiles, and that
motorists think likewise, they are welcome to their
fantasy. Just that they shouldn't try to impose their
preferred scenario upon all others in the name of
"correct" bicycling behavior.

Note: The following is not related to Ranj's response;
I don't remember which over sensitive posters got so
bent out of shape about the ribbing of the image of
gaily colored attired cyclists with raised butts.
As far as any "concern" about the the appearance of
some "uniformed" cyclists, the point is - it is
laughable to think that the public is on the verge of
demanding eliminating cycling on the roads because of
"image" problems that mostly concern a handful of
scaremongering bicyclist do-gooders, or shock jock DJs
and their fan clubs. It is doubly laughable if the
image concern comes from people who don't care what
cyclists look like in public.





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----- Original Message -----
> >Trevor Bourget asked:
> >So why do so many bike riders not look where they are
> >going  (you see them sight-seeing, their gaze dreamily
> >meandering around the environment to the side, while
> >their legs slowly pump up and down in the wrong gear,
> >the bike wobbling back and forth in a nice "S" shape
> >in a generally forward direction)? Why do so many bike
> >riders illegally carry passengers, not yield to
> >others' right of way, stop at stop signs and  signal
> >lights?
> >
> >Stanley Batt wrote
> >The answer is that they aren't as concerned as you are
> >with demonstrating approved cycling positioning,
> >posture, or technique. ...
>
> >Trevor Bourget replied:
> I am wondering, do you think motor vehicle operators should be able to
have
> the same "let me do my own thing" behavior when they're driving? Do you
> think they do?
>



I think we need to highlight a few differences here:

1. The speed of a cyclist on the road has less importance on the flow of
vehicles (bikes and cars alike) than the speed of a car driver. Or to put
it simply, if someone drives on a two-lane rural highway at 70 km/h (40
mi/h), he will bother a lot of people; if a cyclist rides on a street or
two-lane road at 10 km/h (6 mi/h), he will bother few people... or not a
larger number of people than if he were to ride at 20 km/h.

2. Collisions, mishaps, operator errors... have less effect on others when
they are done on a bike than in a car.

So when Trevor asks his first question, I think information should be given
to youngsters (especially) on the importance of keeping a safe line,
avoiding road hazards... because predictability has an overall importance
in accident prevention. On the other hand, I don't really care whether a
cyclist spins at 100 rpm on a well-adjusted bike or churns slowly pedals at
30-45 rpm on a bike with a seat that is way too low. Better adjustments of
the bike would make the person a more efficient cyclist (the bike
equivalent of an engine tune up) and might make cycling more enjoyable, but
don't make that person a safer cyclist.

Same thing for some illegal behaviours. I don't accept zooming through
stops and red lights, whether on bike or by car. But as far as carrying an
extra passenger, I make a difference between the relatively safe
transportation (at low speed) on the rear rack or with a seater and a
standee, and the quite unsafe transportation of someone on handlebars. I'm
actually much more bothered by unlit cyclists.

Regards,

Michel Gagnon -- Montréal (Québec, Canada)
mailto:Michel@... -- http://mgagnon.net

This is an old argument - neon-clad zoomies vs. plodding gray
proletarians.  It's a pointless argument since it's a personal
choice.

I think the Euros said that there is no such thing as bad
weather.  There are only bad clothing choices.  A long time ago,
when I first started riding a bicycle for transportation, I wore
jeans or shorts as the weather demanded.  I learned quickly that
the seams were a sore point as the rides became longer.  Gloves,
shorts, and cycling shoes were comfort items, though given my
wide feet, cycling shoes were still better than running shoes
despite the narrow shoes at the time.  The shorts and jerseys
were wool.

In a sense, clothing is just another tool, a way to make riding
safer and more comfortable.  I met another commuter who works in
one of the airline's hangars here on the maintenance base.  He
rides in a t-shirt and shorts in the summer.  He's comfortable
with that because he'll be in a hangar that exceeds 100 degrees F
by midday.  On the other hand, I work in an electronics shop
that's decidedly chilly, even in summer, so that the computers
stay cool.  I wear the synthetic shorts and jersey so that I can
remove them and put on dry clothing when I arrive.  I'm a big guy
at about 220 pounds.  I can break a sweat just by thinking hard!

Climate has a huge influence on the type of clothing we use, and
I believe that there are regional differences because of that.
In the north, it's fairly easy to ride wearing cotton in the
summer because temperatures are fairly moderate.  But here in
Oklahoma, as in most of the south, the heat and humidity are a
force unto themselves.  There are times we get a weather report
in summer saying that a 'cold front' is coming from Colorado.
That means the daytime temperatures will 'cool off' to the low
90s.  I want clothing that dries quickly because I'll be riding
at midafternoon, dumping water bottles over my arms, legs, and
torso.  Anything that aids evaporation will aid cooling.  Again,
the clothing is a tool that makes riding safer and more
comfortable when the temperature is soaring.

Ed

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is middle-aged.

-----Original Message-----
From: crkjlaw@... [mailto:crkjlaw@...]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 9:42 AM
To: BicyclingAdvocacy@YahooGroups.com
Subject: [bicyclingadvocacy] The Uniform 'e Wore was Nothing Much
Before


"The uniform 'e wore was nothing much before
And rather less than 'alf of that behind..."  Kim, by Rudyard
Kipling

Always liked Kipling in spite of the PC crowd's objection to The
White Man's
Burden. Whenever I hear a discuss about cycling outfits, the
above phrase runs
through my mind. First of all, I'm one of the Lycra clad "louts"
(easy on the
"louts") in that I do wear bright cycling jerseys and black
shorts. It's
actually getting hard to find bright jerseys. I go into my
favorite LBS and all
the jerseys are in grays, browns, dull maroons and slate blues.
What I see on
the roads, at least for roadies, are still the bright colors.
"Serious" cyclists
around here seem to opting out of the fashion scene preferring to
be seen.
Just got the latest club ride leader jersey. It's done up in the
old NY Mets
colors -- orange, blue and white. Enough to make a rat retch. The
motorists may
retch but at least they've seen me, that being the whole point of
the exercise.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 434 - Release Date: 4/28/04

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, cricket98030 wrote:

> I don't need a trike, I need a bicycle seat that is far more
> comfortable. I can walk most of the time, and really can't sit
> comfortably. I can't sit in any kind of seat or chair comfortable.
> There are a few bicycles for people in wheelchairs. They are peddle
> power and are pretty good as far as I know. I've never used one,but
> I've built a few. They come in kits. I'd reccommend looking that up
> on the internet. It's usually something that comes in a kit and is
> intended to be built by the rider.

Cricket, I think you need to give us more information in order for us to
help you.  Do you have a bike currently?  If so, what about the seat is
uncomfortable?  What do you want to change?

Michel's answer was right on the money.  I'll add a few things to it.
Many people choose recumbents (either bike or trike) only partly for the
seat itself, i.e., what you're sitting *on*.  They find the upright
posture or even leaning back slightly is easier on the back.  You'd have
to try one or several (lots of different designs) to know if that's
comfortable for you.

If you have a bike, changing the position of your body may make as much
difference as changing the seat.  Moving the seat forward or back or
changing the angle of the seat might make a difference.  Changing the
handlebars, i.e., changing the position of them or actually getting
different handlebars, can change the position you sit in.

Is there a good bike shop where you are?  Someone there should be able to
help with some of this.

***********************************************************
Riin Gill
Interlibrary Loan                              734-615-6168
Taubman Medical Library                    fax 734-763-1473
University of Michigan
***********************************************************
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~riin/
If you were riding your bike, you'd be having fun by now.

Stanley Batt wrote:

> I've come to the conclusion that some people, who may
> believe they speak for some sort of bicycling
> constituency, spend too much time worrying about other
> cyclists' behavior not conforming to their own set of
> standards.

I agree; those people who complain about the dress and riding speed of
speedy boy racers can get on your nerves sometimes. And then you have
those guys who point out that we can't know what individual motorists
are thinking, but then go on and tell us IN THE VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH
that motorists don't like speedy boy racers because of their lycra and
lane-taking.

RFM

"The uniform 'e wore was nothing much before
And rather less than 'alf of that behind..."  Kim, by Rudyard Kipling

Always liked Kipling in spite of the PC crowd's objection to The White Man's
Burden. Whenever I hear a discuss about cycling outfits, the above phrase runs
through my mind. First of all, I'm one of the Lycra clad "louts" (easy on the
"louts") in that I do wear bright cycling jerseys and black shorts. It's
actually getting hard to find bright jerseys. I go into my favorite LBS and all
the jerseys are in grays, browns, dull maroons and slate blues. What I see on
the roads, at least for roadies, are still the bright colors. "Serious" cyclists
around here seem to opting out of the fashion scene preferring to be seen.
Just got the latest club ride leader jersey. It's done up in the old NY Mets
colors -- orange, blue and white. Enough to make a rat retch. The motorists may
retch but at least they've seen me, that being the whole point of the exercise.

I usually wear bike shorts except for utility rides which tend to be short.
When I teach cycling to non-cyclists or children, I wear a pair of walking
shorts over them (at least during class). Pet Peeve: Why don't short
manufacturers
strategically place some padding in front to at least soften the view?
Cycling women seem to have no problem with it (at least that's what they tell
me)
but walking into a local restaurant so clad can be a problem. Besides, it gives
the homophobes ammo. Hey Pearl Izumi, Performance and Trek; how about a little
support (pun intended) here!

In any event, what I wear on my bike rides is dictated by experience. I once
did a 50 mile road/trail ride in street shorts. Couldn't walk right for more
than a week. Never, ever again!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello bob.bayn@...,

In reference to your comment:

è  gleefully rode my Lightning P-38 recumbent for a
è number of years before I noticed that the Hill Air Force
è Base Museum in Ogden Utah also has a Lightning
è P-38 on display. The WWII veteran volunteer near that
è display didn't believe that I also owned a P-38 and
è wasn't impressed when he learned that mine was
è merely a bike.

Yeah, but your's can still fly!

Chris Law


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

According to a 2000 study at Rutgers
University,isn't it funny that in the Netherlands
where amost no one wears helmets, and city dwellers
travel by bike more than 25 percent of the time and
for each 100 million of those trips, 1.6 Dutch
cyclists were killed in accidents in 1995. By
contrast, U.S. city dwellers travel by bike less
than 1 percent of the time and die at a much higher
rate when they do: 26.3 bike fatalities for every
100 million trips.
I just don't think the majic hat would be the cure
to eliminate the very few cyclist deaths as proper
road behaviour would be.

Ranj wrote, in part:
>I also do not make vroom-vroom sounds, Stanley.
>I far prefer the "eeeeourrrowww" noises of WW2
>fighter planes. It fits the sensation a lot better.

I gleefully rode my Lightning P-38 recumbent for a number
of years before I noticed that the Hill Air Force Base
Museum in Ogden Utah also has a Lightning P-38 on display.
The WWII veteran volunteer near that display didn't believe
that I also owned a P-38 and wasn't impressed when he
learned that mine was merely a bike.

--
Bob Bayn             http://cc.usu.edu/~bob/     o
AUS/N&CS           I just can't picture having   \__^\=*
Utah State Univ     fun by burning gasoline.   (O)""""o
                        (or aviation fuel)

In the Washington, DC area, when discussion of cyclists comes up in
the Washington Post "Dr. Gridlock" column [a weekly column about
traffic issues in the DC area], motorists never complain about what
cyclists are wearing.  They do, however, ALWAYS mention that the
majority of cyclists they see break the law.

Never mind that a cyclist breaking the law may be doing no harm to
anyone and never mind the fact that 95% of area motorists break the
speed limit laws whenever possible [that is, when they're not stuck in
stop and go traffic].  It is the perception of cyclists as a group as
scofflaws that really gets the motorists around here riled up, not
their clothing.

--Nancy Taylor
Bethesda, MD

--- In bicyclingadvocacy@yahoogroups.com, "John A. Ardelli"
<gelfling@s...> wrote:
> On Apr 29, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Stanley Batt wrote:
>
> > Afterwards, if promoting a positive image for cyclists is the trump
> > card for promoting expert's bicycling projects, goal number one would
> > be to ban the wearing of racing style bicyling clothes in public that
> > give cyclists such a negative image/stereotype.
>
> Well, aside from my reflective vest and helmet, I generally wear
> ordinary clothes myself.  :)
>
> John A. Ardelli
> Moderator
> BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
> The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
> Bicycling Advocacy:
> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

Having in the past beaten Mr. Laurence like the proverbial tin drum, I
am obligated to note
those occasions when I have no disagreements at all with his post.

I am not saying we all don't rubberneck from time to time,
I was mooned by a car full of teenagers week before last.
It was a pleasant change from the hurled empty beer can.
I am winning them over, slowly.

But even in tourist mode, it is only good sense to ride
using the common courtesy of the road, as well as the
caution due the environment.

Having said that, I personally do not let the need for speed
or efficiency suck the joy and beauty out of my ride.
I am at a natural advantage on a bent, though, where
I can see things a lot easier.

I also do not make vroom-vroom sounds, Stanley.
I far prefer the "eeeeourrrowww" noises of WW2
fighter planes. It fits the sensation a lot better.

Ranj

howmanlaurence wrote:

>>SB:
>>I don't believe that bicycle riders are motor vehicle
>>operators, and I don't pretend to be one when I ride a
>>bicycle. I don't believe most bicycle riders (except
>>children making Vroom-Vroom sounds)find it desirable
>>to make pretend that they are motor vehicle operators.
>>
>>
>>
>I think that the previous Sentance Says it all Stanley!!!
>It is True that you are not a Moter Vehicle Operator when you ride
>your bicycle but you are nontheless a Vehicle Operator and I and I am
>sure many on this list beleive this. So I should have the same rights
>as other vehicle operators and be bound by the same rules as other
>vehicle operators and operate on the same roads as other vehicle
>operators
>
>
>
>>In other words, except for possibly retentive types,
>>there is no nexus.
>>
>>Stanley Batt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>__________________________________
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>>Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
--------------------------------------------



"Patriotism means to stand by the country.
It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official
  save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country."

-Theodore Roosevelt



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> SB:
> I don't believe that bicycle riders are motor vehicle
> operators, and I don't pretend to be one when I ride a
> bicycle. I don't believe most bicycle riders (except
> children making Vroom-Vroom sounds)find it desirable
> to make pretend that they are motor vehicle operators.
>
I think that the previous Sentance Says it all Stanley!!!
It is True that you are not a Moter Vehicle Operator when you ride
your bicycle but you are nontheless a Vehicle Operator and I and I am
sure many on this list beleive this. So I should have the same rights
as other vehicle operators and be bound by the same rules as other
vehicle operators and operate on the same roads as other vehicle
operators

> In other words, except for possibly retentive types,
> there is no nexus.
>
> Stanley Batt
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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Begin forwarded message:

> From: L Bailey <linda8160@...>
> Date: April 30, 2004 2:33:45 AM ADT
> To: bifida-l@yahoogroups.com
>
> .From: "cricket98030"
> Subject: bicycle commuting
>
>> I'm all for bicycle commuting, but I need a better seat for my
>> bicycles. I have occulta, does that make any difference?
>> I am new to the group, I live outside Seattle, and I'm called Cricket
>
> Hi Cricket,  I also live in the Seattle area. I have a three wheeled
> recumbant bike called the Sidewinder, and I just love it! The seat is
> way more comfortable than a regular bike, and it does not require the
> balance that a normal bike does. Here is their website:
> http://www.sidewindercycle.com  If you are looking for a handcycle,
> this site is awesome http://www.bike-on.com
>
> Linda253

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

Trevor Bourget asked:
I am wondering, do you think motor vehicle operators
should be able to have the same "let me do my own
thing" behavior when they're driving? Do you think
they do?

SB:
I don't believe that bicycle riders are motor vehicle
operators, and I don't pretend to be one when I ride a
bicycle. I don't believe most bicycle riders (except
children making Vroom-Vroom sounds)find it desirable
to make pretend that they are motor vehicle operators.

In other words, except for possibly retentive types,
there is no nexus.

Stanley Batt




__________________________________
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At 08:28 AM 2004-04-29, Stanley Batt wrote:
>Educating motorists about the cyclists rights to the road is the most
>significant issue that needs to addressed to improve the cycling environment.

At least it's way up there. I spoke to the bike coordinator for San Diego
and he said by far the most number of calls that he got from the public
were motorists complaining about bike riders not being on the sidewalk
where they're supposed to be.

The interesting thing about this is that very few of these cyclists were
likely to have been in anyone's way. Why are motorists such busybodies
towards bike riders, but ignore pedestrians and put up grudgingly with each
other? Is this an inferiority/bully complex? Is it jealousy (you can't have
fun, you can't get ahead of me)?

-- Trevor

At 03:23 AM 2004-04-29, Stanley Batt wrote:
>Trevor Bourget asked:
>So why do so many bike riders not look where they are
>going  (you see them sight-seeing, their gaze dreamily
>meandering around the environment to the side, while
>their legs slowly pump up and down in the wrong gear,
>the bike wobbling back and forth in a nice "S" shape
>in a generally forward direction)? Why do so many bike
>riders illegally carry passengers, not yield to
>others' right of way, stop at stop signs and  signal
>lights?
>
>SB:
>The answer is that they aren't as concerned as you are
>with demonstrating approved cycling positioning,
>posture, or technique. Other cyclists may not be as
>concerned as you in being in the "correct" gear, or as
>concerned with taking the most efficient line through
>a curve or from point A to point B, or complying with
>the letter of unenforced traffic regulations (that
>often are situationally irrelevant). In some cases
>they may not regard safety in as high as regard as
>you; some people do not make avoidance of every risk,
>no matter what the significance, their paramount goal
>in life. They may not define "not look where they are
>going" the same way you do.
>
>The "answer" for adults and probably most older
>children's "problem" is that they may not have a
>problem.
>
>Your problem is failure to recognize that cyclists may
>know the "correct" techniques, but choose not to use
>them for reasons that don't jibe with your own cycling
>values.
>
>Stanley Batt

Thanks, Stanley, that was a very useful (instructive) answer.

I am wondering, do you think motor vehicle operators should be able to have
the same "let me do my own thing" behavior when they're driving? Do you
think they do?

-- Trevor

>Michael Graff wrote:
>I've come to the conclusion that bicycling advocacy
>(in all its forms and factions) spends too much time
>worrying about infrastructure and not enough time
>worrying about behavior.
>
>SB:
>I've come to the conclusion that some people, who may
>believe they speak for some sort of bicycling
>constituency, spend too much time worrying about other
>cyclists' behavior not conforming to their own set of
>standards.
>
>Stanley Batt

If coming to conclusions is an "on topic" pursuit, I've come to the
conclusion that some people will take issue with anything in order to
justify responding and getting validation, a reaction, or just the
satisfaction of fueling an argument so as to have something to do.
Present company excepted, of course.

Fred Meredith

>
>
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--
When in doubt ... ride your bike (or at least write about it).

Fred Meredith
P.O. Box 100 (12702 Lowden Ln for UPS/FedEx)
Manchaca, TX 78652
512/282-1987 (office/home)
512/282-7413 (fax)
512/636-7480 (wireless)
More than you want to know at: http://2merediths.com

cricket98030 a inscrit (wrote) :

>I don't need a trike, I need a bicycle seat that is far more
>comfortable. I can walk most of the time, and really can't sit
>comfortably. I can't sit in any kind of seat or chair comfortable.
>There are a few bicycles for people in wheelchairs. They are peddle
>power and are pretty good as far as I know. I've never used one,but
>I've built a few. They come in kits. I'd reccommend looking that up
>on the internet. It's usually something that comes in a kit and is
>intended to be built by the rider.
>

I don't know the details of your handicap so I don't know what you would
exactly need. But in general, a good chair-like seat is incompatible
with the leg movements needed for cycling. It's possible, in theory, to
add a back rest to a saddle (Addams offers it on their Trail-a-Bike),
but you can't design a more "complete" saddle without infringing on leg
movements.
In terms of saddles for regular bikes, there are two trends with quite a
few variations:
- a comfy saddle that is relatively wide and sometimes with springs:
typically used for upright bicycles and for short rides, because legs
tend to chafe;
- a narrower more rigid saddle that supports the weight of the person on
the ischial tuberosities (i.e. the 2 bones below your rear end); it
needs to be adequately selected, your rear end may need a bit of
training, but legs don't chafe and they are great for long long rides.

So far, the only solution I have seen with a more comfortable saddle is
to go with a sit-down bike: a recumbrent.

And if you need a handcycle, I think handcycle exist only with 3 or 4
wheels, and not as bicycles.

--

Michel Gagnon               mailto:michel@...
Montréal (Québec, Canada)          http://mgagnon.net

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Sondra/ or Nala <nala5065@...>
> Date: April 29, 2004 4:06:41 PM ADT
> To: bifida-l@yahoogroups.com
>
> Yes I need the motorized chair because my back won't allow me to push
> a manual chair, but I need some way of getting exercise that will get
> me out of the house more often. And since my driveway is pretty much
> one BIG pothole then one that doesn't do potholes well wouldn't work.
> I wish there was a way besides using handweights because that isn't
> fun enough to motivate me to keep doing it. I need something where I
> would have to do it outside for some reason. I spend way too much time
> sitting in my room at my computer. Please let me know if any of you
> have any suggestions.

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/

On Apr 29, 2004, at 12:28 PM, Stanley Batt wrote:

> Afterwards, if promoting a positive image for cyclists is the trump
> card for promoting expert's bicycling projects, goal number one would
> be to ban the wearing of racing style bicyling clothes in public that
> give cyclists such a negative image/stereotype.

Well, aside from my reflective vest and helmet, I generally wear
ordinary clothes myself.  :)

John A. Ardelli
Moderator
BIFIDA-L:            http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/bifida-l/
The Crystal Corner:  http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/CrystalCorner/
Bicycling Advocacy:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/bicyclingadvocacy/