During a practice we were discussing what is more important if not equal, should

you learn to defend, or attack. We thought blocking your attacker was a more

important skill for the simple fact that when cops show up you just look like a

guy who was defending yourself and the attacker gets tossed in the jail. Were

not saying that you shoudnt lay the smack down on some one if they need it. Just

that keeping yourself from getting hit at all may be a better skill and worth

more time on. Whats your take?

On 7/3/09, tom21obrien <thomas22778@...> wrote:

> During a practice we were discussing what is more important if not equal,

> should you learn to defend, or attack. We thought blocking your attacker was

> a more important skill for the simple fact that when cops show up you just

> look like a guy who was defending yourself and the attacker gets tossed in

> the jail. Were not saying that you shoudnt lay the smack down on some one if

> they need it. Just that keeping yourself from getting hit at all may be a

> better skill and worth more time on. Whats your take?



That is actually a good question...but I am not sure I have the

answer:) For the legal reason you mention, I do agree that defending

yourself is the most important plus as you say, not getting hit has

it's advantages as well.



While some may say a good offence is the best defense, I will quote

Jack Dempsey here and say that the best defense is an aggressive

defense...which to me seems a bit middle of the road but the best fit

IMO.



Ken

tom21obrien,



   One of the best things to remember is that the first person to attack is the

first person to leave themselves open.  As long as your defense is solid and

your counter attacks are done correctly you can usually defeat your opponent by

being the defender.

   Basically, learn both.  If your opponent is timid then you may need to

instigate to get the opening you want.







--- In bata@yahoogroups.com, "tom21obrien" <thomas22778@...> wrote:

>

> During a practice we were discussing what is more important if not equal,

should you learn to defend, or attack. We thought blocking your attacker was a

more important skill for the simple fact that when cops show up you just look

like a guy who was defending yourself and the attacker gets tossed in the jail.

Were not saying that you shoudnt lay the smack down on some one if they need it.

Just that keeping yourself from getting hit at all may be a better skill and

worth more time on. Whats your take?

>

On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:06 AM, Matt wrote:



> As long as your defense is solid and your counter attacks are done

> correctly you can usually defeat your opponent by being the defender.





I do remember that in his movies, Bruce Lee nearly always let the

other person make the first move. Of course, this may just be the

movies, but Bruce knew his stuff and liked to be as realistic as

possible. It seemed to work out for his characters quite well, as he

would do a devastating counterattack and defeat his opponents.





--

Doras Cúil Travel--Your one-stop travel source

Certified Destination Specialist for Ireland and Scotland

http://www.dorascuil.com











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 16:35 +0000, tom21obrien wrote:

> During a practice we were discussing what is more important if not equal,

>  should you learn to defend, or attack. We thought blocking your attacker

>  was a more important skill for the simple fact that when cops show up you

> just look like a guy who was defending yourself and the attacker gets

>  tossed in the jail. Were not saying that you shoudnt lay the smack down

> on some one if they need it. Just that keeping yourself from getting hit at

> all may be a better skill and worth more time on. Whats your take?



If you're in a dustup that gets cops called then you're clubbing someone

anyway.  Personally, I find it far easier to learn effective attacking

than effective defending.  By an order of magnitude, nearly.



Just an alternate view, that's all.



Peace favor your sword,

Kirk

Ive not added to one of these debates before as Im not strictly a stick fighter

more of a hand to hand person with a very keen interest in stick, bata. However

in my fighting world a defense is usually completed with an attack and if

possible a finish to end the aggressors actions. So attack and defense is one,

in the stick/baton work Ive done in the military and police it has been this way

also.



best in martial arts



Chaz

--- In bata@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk \"Rabid Weasel\" Lawson" <lawson@...> wrote:

>

> On Fri, 2009-07-03 at 16:35 +0000, tom21obrien wrote:

> > During a practice we were discussing what is more important if not equal,

> >  should you learn to defend, or attack. We thought blocking your attacker

> >  was a more important skill for the simple fact that when cops show up you

> > just look like a guy who was defending yourself and the attacker gets

> >  tossed in the jail. Were not saying that you shoudnt lay the smack down

> > on some one if they need it. Just that keeping yourself from getting hit at

> > all may be a better skill and worth more time on. Whats your take?

>

> If you're in a dustup that gets cops called then you're clubbing someone

> anyway.  Personally, I find it far easier to learn effective attacking

> than effective defending.  By an order of magnitude, nearly.

>

> Just an alternate view, that's all.

>

> Peace favor your sword,

> Kirk

>

When teaching new folks I always stress how to defend first

for many reasons. Attacking seems easier to folks defense seems harder.

I mean real defense, It is human nature to flinch/shy away from a attack



example: watch kids playing football baseball etc etc the ball comes at them

"WHAM"

and they move their head or try and move their body out of the way. now swing a

bat at a student

most the time you will get some crazy move to cover up or flinching to get out

of the way.



It takes some folks along time to beat (no pun) this natural reaction so I start

with a solid defense

not to mention in the beginning you get hit allot :) in any art, the student and

you feel better when you/they

know they are defending themselves and showing progress.



While they are doing this they are picking up on what to look for in striking,

openings, telegraphing etc etc

just a few reasons there are others. Sometimes you need to be defensive until

your chance comes.



Now with that said the police will not show up in time :) trust me the chances

of your fight still going on

by the time they get there is 0 and the chances of you fighting right next to an

officer -0    ;)



Now your about to get into a fight and there is no way around it well.. strike

first, strike hard, strike repeatedly, and then leave quickly

no bows no autographs  no talking about it just leave, remember the guys face

just in case but forget the rest :)



Personally a good offense is the best defense but don't cheat yourself while

training and ignore either.



Craig "Kodiakc" Black









   ----- Original Message -----

   From: tom21obrien

   To: bata@yahoogroups.com

   Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 12:35 PM

   Subject: [bata] Attack or defend











   During a practice we were discussing what is more important if not equal,

should you learn to defend, or attack. We thought blocking your attacker was a

more important skill for the simple fact that when cops show up you just look

like a guy who was defending yourself and the attacker gets tossed in the jail.

Were not saying that you shoudnt lay the smack down on some one if they need it.

Just that keeping yourself from getting hit at all may be a better skill and

worth more time on. Whats your take?











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Finally some action. The subject came up because about a week prior to our

practice, my fire company was dispatched for an EMS run for a victim of an

assault. Once we got there we found a 20+ lad on the ground with his head split

open. Once we patched him up and sent out in the ambulance, we talked to some

bystanders and they said some dudes came up to him with a bat and swung for the

fences. Apparently over a pack of smokes. So we started talking about body

mechanics and how if the lad had a stick, and a little knowledge, he could have

blocked the swing and given them a good quick thump.

Great Discussion!



We train Defence a lot because you really can't eat a blow to the head

as a previous poster clearly illustrated.



IMHO though if you ONLY play Defence you are going to Loose.  You have

surrenderred the tempo to your opponent and all things being equal, he

who controls the Tempo / Range controls the fight.



Thus we train to close the gap and seize the opportunity if the fight

is clearlly going down.  If we do have to react to then, then block

and xhange the range to something more advantagous and go on the

Offensive.



Regards,

Guro Rob

Boston Fighting Faction





On 7/4/09, tom21obrien <thomas22778@...> wrote:

> Finally some action. The subject came up because about a week prior to our

> practice, my fire company was dispatched for an EMS run for a victim of an

> assault. Once we got there we found a 20+ lad on the ground with his head

> split open. Once we patched him up and sent out in the ambulance, we talked

> to some bystanders and they said some dudes came up to him with a bat and

> swung for the fences. Apparently over a pack of smokes. So we started

> talking about body mechanics and how if the lad had a stick, and a little

> knowledge, he could have blocked the swing and given them a good quick

> thump.

>

>



--

Sent from my mobile device



Don't Think you are...  KNOW you are!

good thread



in my experiance training others if you manuipilate the flintch reaction to a

defensive action you get someone that can flintch defend

a very handy thing



not everyone gets that or how to apply and control the chemicals that are

dumping into yrou body



its on you to pick the proper responce and when to use it or you go to prison



if you overkill at any point even if you have reason you will be found liable in

court



train safe and hope that day never comes

if it does train hard the more you bleed in training the less you bleed in

combat









________________________________

From: Robert Masson <robert.masson@...>

To: bata@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 8:10:27 AM

Subject: Re: [bata] Attack or defend











Great Discussion!



We train Defence a lot because you really can't eat a blow to the head

as a previous poster clearly illustrated.



IMHO though if you ONLY play Defence you are going to Loose. You have

surrenderred the tempo to your opponent and all things being equal, he

who controls the Tempo / Range controls the fight.



Thus we train to close the gap and seize the opportunity if the fight

is clearlly going down. If we do have to react to then, then block

and xhange the range to something more advantagous and go on the

Offensive.



Regards,

Guro Rob

Boston Fighting Faction



On 7/4/09, tom21obrien <thomas22778@ aol.com> wrote:

> Finally some action. The subject came up because about a week prior to our

> practice, my fire company was dispatched for an EMS run for a victim of an

> assault. Once we got there we found a 20+ lad on the ground with his head

> split open. Once we patched him up and sent out in the ambulance, we talked

> to some bystanders and they said some dudes came up to him with a bat and

> swung for the fences. Apparently over a pack of smokes. So we started

> talking about body mechanics and how if the lad had a stick, and a little

> knowledge, he could have blocked the swing and given them a good quick

> thump.

>

>



--

Sent from my mobile device



Don't Think you are... KNOW you are!













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

not everyone gets that or how to apply and control the chemicals that are

dumping into yrou body



-------------------------------



I developed a method for that



Rick



Overcoming Fear in a Self-Defense Situation by Sensei J. Richard Kirkham B.Sc.



How do you overcome fear in a self-defense situation? Basically you don't, you

learn to use the fear instead. Making it a tool that you shape not allowing fear

to control you. All fine and dandy, but how do you go about learning how to use

fear...?

http://martialarts808.com/index.php? topic=8.0