Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState field in
the master file is truncated.  All but 2 or 3 players have a one-
letter value in the field.

Also, is anybody working on postseason data?

Regards,
Sean Lahman

Sean:

I had planned on working on the Postseason Fielding data, but
with "my Cardinals" playing until the last game of the season, and a
deadline upcoming for park data for "Green Cathederals IV" I probably
wouldn't be able to complete it until next week.

THANKS,
Kevin

--- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "anson2995" <slahman@b...>
wrote:
>
> Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState field
in
> the master file is truncated.  All but 2 or 3 players have a one-
> letter value in the field.
>
> Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
>
> Regards,
> Sean Lahman

I will take care of the postseason batting and pitching this weekend, as
well as the SeriesPost table.  If anyone else has started this work, please
let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.

I'll also take care of updating the various awards tables over the next
week, as the announcements come in.

The other task remaining is to fix the BirthState info in the master table.
Is there anything else that needs to be done to make the 2004 update
complete?

Regards,
Sean Lahman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
>
>
>
>
> Sean:
>
> I had planned on working on the Postseason Fielding data, but
> with "my Cardinals" playing until the last game of the season, and a
> deadline upcoming for park data for "Green Cathederals IV" I probably
> wouldn't be able to complete it until next week.
>
> THANKS,
> Kevin
>
> --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "anson2995" <slahman@b...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState field
> in
> > the master file is truncated.  All but 2 or 3 players have a one-
> > letter value in the field.
> >
> > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sean Lahman
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sean:

How are you designating the "ROUND" field for the division series, as
far as which is #1 and which is #2?  Is it:

Team-Team-ROUND
SLN - LAN - NLDS1
ATL - HOU - NLDS2
ANA - BOS - ALDS1
NYA - MIN - ALDS2

or some vice versa?

Postseason fielding stats coming shortly..

THANKS,
Kevin

--- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Sean Lahman"
<slahman@b...> wrote:
> I will take care of the postseason batting and pitching this
weekend, as
> well as the SeriesPost table.  If anyone else has started this
work, please
> let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.
>
> I'll also take care of updating the various awards tables over the
next
> week, as the announcements come in.
>
> The other task remaining is to fix the BirthState info in the
master table.
> Is there anything else that needs to be done to make the 2004 update
> complete?
>
> Regards,
> Sean Lahman
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sean:
> >
> > I had planned on working on the Postseason Fielding data, but
> > with "my Cardinals" playing until the last game of the season,
and a
> > deadline upcoming for park data for "Green Cathederals IV" I
probably
> > wouldn't be able to complete it until next week.
> >
> > THANKS,
> > Kevin
> >
> > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "anson2995"
<slahman@b...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState
field
> > in
> > > the master file is truncated.  All but 2 or 3 players have a
one-
> > > letter value in the field.
> > >
> > > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Sean Lahman
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

This is fine with me...
--S

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:22 AM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: Post-season
>
>
>
>
> Sean:
>
> How are you designating the "ROUND" field for the division series, as
> far as which is #1 and which is #2?  Is it:
>
> Team-Team-ROUND
> SLN - LAN - NLDS1
> ATL - HOU - NLDS2
> ANA - BOS - ALDS1
> NYA - MIN - ALDS2
>
> or some vice versa?
>
> Postseason fielding stats coming shortly..
>
> THANKS,
> Kevin
>
> --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Sean Lahman"
> <slahman@b...> wrote:
> > I will take care of the postseason batting and pitching this
> weekend, as
> > well as the SeriesPost table.  If anyone else has started this
> work, please
> > let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.
> >
> > I'll also take care of updating the various awards tables over the
> next
> > week, as the announcements come in.
> >
> > The other task remaining is to fix the BirthState info in the
> master table.
> > Is there anything else that needs to be done to make the 2004 update
> > complete?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sean Lahman
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> > > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sean:
> > >
> > > I had planned on working on the Postseason Fielding data, but
> > > with "my Cardinals" playing until the last game of the season,
> and a
> > > deadline upcoming for park data for "Green Cathederals IV" I
> probably
> > > wouldn't be able to complete it until next week.
> > >
> > > THANKS,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "anson2995"
> <slahman@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState
> field
> > > in
> > > > the master file is truncated.  All but 2 or 3 players have a
> one-
> > > > letter value in the field.
> > > >
> > > > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Sean Lahman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

...and I will upload the other postseason tables tonight. all that's
remaining to make our 2004 update complete is the awards table (with the
last awards not announced until Tuesday) and fixes to the birthstates in the
master table.

Regards,
Sean Lahman


> -----Original Message-----
> From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:22 AM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: Post-season
>
>
>
>
> Sean:
>
> How are you designating the "ROUND" field for the division series, as
> far as which is #1 and which is #2?  Is it:
>
> Team-Team-ROUND
> SLN - LAN - NLDS1
> ATL - HOU - NLDS2
> ANA - BOS - ALDS1
> NYA - MIN - ALDS2
>
> or some vice versa?
>
> Postseason fielding stats coming shortly..
>
> THANKS,
> Kevin
>
> --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Sean Lahman"
> <slahman@b...> wrote:
> > I will take care of the postseason batting and pitching this
> weekend, as
> > well as the SeriesPost table.  If anyone else has started this
> work, please
> > let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.
> >
> > I'll also take care of updating the various awards tables over the
> next
> > week, as the announcements come in.
> >
> > The other task remaining is to fix the BirthState info in the
> master table.
> > Is there anything else that needs to be done to make the 2004 update
> > complete?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sean Lahman
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> > > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sean:
> > >
> > > I had planned on working on the Postseason Fielding data, but
> > > with "my Cardinals" playing until the last game of the season,
> and a
> > > deadline upcoming for park data for "Green Cathederals IV" I
> probably
> > > wouldn't be able to complete it until next week.
> > >
> > > THANKS,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "anson2995"
> <slahman@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState
> field
> > > in
> > > > the master file is truncated.  All but 2 or 3 players have a
> one-
> > > > letter value in the field.
> > > >
> > > > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Sean Lahman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I apologize if the answer to this is obvious, but I just had an
occasion to look at the various award tables and noticed that each
one seemed to use it's own set of IDs.  Is this the way it was
designed to work or am I making some really stupid mistake?  For
example, all the Hall of Fame IDs end in "h", all the manager IDs
end in "m" and so on.  Is this really the way we want this to
work?

Tom Ruane

The decision was made to give separate sets of player IDs for players,
managers, and HOF members, since membership in any of those groups doesn't
mean you're also part of another.  Frank Robinson is in all three, Josh
Gibson only has an HOF ID, and Jim Leyland only has a manager ID.  The
format for all three is the same, with an "m" suffix for managers
(robinfr02m) and an "h" suffix for people in the Hall of Fame (robinfr02h).

The rationale behind this was to allow for the inclusion of non-players in
the master table while still being able to identify (for integrity checking)
which records from the master file should have corresponding entries in the
data tables.  For example, everyone with a managerID should have an entry in
the managers table.

Right now, there are only about 150 individuals in the master table who
don't have a playerID, but that could change significantly when (if) we
integrate Japanese data, MLB draft info, etc.

Hope this explanation is helpful, but I'm open to further discussion.

Regards,
Sean Lahman



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tjruane [mailto:truane@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:56 PM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Newbie Question on IDs
>
>
>
>
> I apologize if the answer to this is obvious, but I just had an
> occasion to look at the various award tables and noticed that each
> one seemed to use it's own set of IDs.  Is this the way it was
> designed to work or am I making some really stupid mistake?  For
> example, all the Hall of Fame IDs end in "h", all the manager IDs
> end in "m" and so on.  Is this really the way we want this to
> work?
>
> Tom Ruane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Lahman [mailto:slahman@...]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:13 PM
To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [baseball-databank] Newbie Question on IDs

The decision was made to give separate sets of player IDs for players,
managers, and HOF members, since membership in any of those groups doesn't
mean you're also part of another.  Frank Robinson is in all three, Josh
Gibson only has an HOF ID, and Jim Leyland only has a manager ID.  The
format for all three is the same, with an "m" suffix for managers
(robinfr02m) and an "h" suffix for people in the Hall of Fame (robinfr02h).

The rationale behind this was to allow for the inclusion of non-players in
the master table while still being able to identify (for integrity checking)
which records from the master file should have corresponding entries in the
data tables.  For example, everyone with a managerID should have an entry in
the managers table.

Right now, there are only about 150 individuals in the master table who
don't have a playerID, but that could change significantly when (if) we
integrate Japanese data, MLB draft info, etc.

Hope this explanation is helpful, but I'm open to further discussion.

Regards,
Sean Lahman



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tjruane [mailto:truane@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:56 PM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Newbie Question on IDs
>
>
>
>
> I apologize if the answer to this is obvious, but I just had an
> occasion to look at the various award tables and noticed that each
> one seemed to use it's own set of IDs.  Is this the way it was
> designed to work or am I making some really stupid mistake?  For
> example, all the Hall of Fame IDs end in "h", all the manager IDs
> end in "m" and so on.  Is this really the way we want this to
> work?
>
> Tom Ruane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




http://www.baseball-databank.org/

Sean Lahman wrote:

> The decision was made to give separate sets of player IDs for
> players, managers, and HOF members, since membership in any of
> those groups doesn't mean you're also part of another.  Frank
> Robinson is in all three, Josh Gibson only has an HOF ID, and
> Jim Leyland only has a manager ID.  The format for all three
> is the same, with an "m" suffix for managers (robinfr02m) and
> an "h" suffix for people in the Hall of Fame (robinfr02h).
>
> The rationale behind this was to allow for the inclusion of
> non-players in the master table while still being able to
> identify (for integrity checking) which records from the master
> file should have corresponding entries in the data tables.  For
> example, everyone with a managerID should have an entry in
> the managers table.
>
> Right now, there are only about 150 individuals in the master
> table who don't have a playerID, but that could change
> significantly when (if) we integrate Japanese data, MLB draft
> info, etc.
>
> Hope this explanation is helpful, but I'm open to further
> discussion.

Thanks for the explanation.  This is certainly not the way I would
have done it, and at least for my purposes, it makes these tables
much more difficult to work with, but I'm only a visitor here so
I will defer to your judgement.  I think a more direct approach
would have been to have a single ID used in all the tables and in
the master table simply have a series of fields indicating which
people were players, managers, executives, coaches, umpires, scouts,
and so on.

But thanks for the clarification.
Tom Ruane

--- tjruane <truane@...> wrote:
> I will defer to your judgement.  I think a more
> direct approach
> would have been to have a single ID used in all the
> tables and in
> the master table simply have a series of fields
> indicating which
> people were players, managers, executives, coaches,
> umpires, scouts,
> and so on.
>

Yes, this "Mapping" table is what we have designed in
the BDBDesign group.  Any time someone wants to give
us new data, we simply tack it on to this mapping
table.  The main ID would be numeric, and would link
all the associated tables.

So, if someone is compiling minor league records, and
they have Tim Raines as raiti001, that's fine, and we
just tack that on to the mapping table to ID 67934.
HAve multiple sources for MLB data (Lahman, Retro,
STATS, MLB, etc)?  No problem.  Everything gets
plugged in there.

We had a long discussion on this topic at the above
mentioned group, which you might want to reference.

Tom


__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Tangotiger wrote:

>
>
> --- tjruane <truane@...> wrote:
>> I will defer to your judgement.  I think a more
>> direct approach
>> would have been to have a single ID used in all the
>> tables and in
>> the master table simply have a series of fields
>> indicating which
>> people were players, managers, executives, coaches,
>> umpires, scouts,
>> and so on.
>>
>
> Yes, this "Mapping" table is what we have designed in
> the BDBDesign group.  Any time someone wants to give
> us new data, we simply tack it on to this mapping
> table.  The main ID would be numeric, and would link
> all the associated tables.
>
> So, if someone is compiling minor league records, and
> they have Tim Raines as raiti001, that's fine, and we
> just tack that on to the mapping table to ID 67934.
> HAve multiple sources for MLB data (Lahman, Retro,
> STATS, MLB, etc)?  No problem.  Everything gets
> plugged in there.
>
> We had a long discussion on this topic at the above
> mentioned group, which you might want to reference.

As I understand the e-mails above, I don't agree that the mapping table
strategy you're describing is the same as the strategy Tom R. would use
for a master table.

Here's what I think Tom R. is referring to (stripped down):

ID,MLB?,HOF?,JAPNLG?,...
cobbty01,Y,Y,N,...

Here's what I think Tom (Tangotiger) is describing:
ID,LahmanID,StatsID,RetroID
14567,cobbty01,5678,cobbt001

As I see it, the current strategy is very similar to the second; it just
pretends HOF, Manager, executive, etc. info is from a separate source.

Regards,
Derek

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, F.X.Flinn wrote:

> I'm firmly of the opinion that table keys should be long integers and
> all tables should have fields that collect relevant corresponding table
> IDs.
>
> For example, if I have a table of scouts, I have a table key named
> ScoutID and I have fields for PlayerID, ManagerID, etc., or I have one
> field called MasterID (if I maintain a table of all persons, a rosetta
> stone table, as it were).
>
> On the other hand, the existing LahmanID scheme works well for the
> audience that is comfortable using flat-file approaches. I don't see a
> wholesale switchover happening in the context of bb-db.

I understand the desire to use longs. Currently, all of our tables with
the exception of Master (and maybe one or two small ones that escape me)
have compound primary keys, which can lead to some ugliness, both in terms
of development and performance in dependent applications.

That said, I do think it would make visual inspection of the data much
more difficult. I think, over time, that would have a negative impact on
data integrity. Our workflow is much different than the typical business
database, where performance is more crucial and hand-massaging of the data
is less common.

I think a perl or similar script to take the DB files and prepend unique
long ID's and switch out the dependent ID's would not be that difficult to
write (although somewhat time-consuming to run).

Regards,
Derek

Actually, we have to pretend it's from a separate
source as long as the source feeding BDB is not
entrenched in BDB.  I mean, if someone was going to
provide even more detailed Gold Glove data or whatnot,
we'd have to be able to plug them in. The source
provider is not going to necessarily want to stick to
the BDB IDs.

However, I agree that there's no reason to have the
"u" and whatnot, if it's a derivative of the playerid.


Given the extremely loose nature of this group, having
a plug-and-play kind of model is the best thing
that'll work. I think.

Tom



--- Derek Adair <dadair@...> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Tangotiger wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > --- tjruane <truane@...> wrote:
> >> I will defer to your judgement.  I think a more
> >> direct approach
> >> would have been to have a single ID used in all
> the
> >> tables and in
> >> the master table simply have a series of fields
> >> indicating which
> >> people were players, managers, executives,
> coaches,
> >> umpires, scouts,
> >> and so on.
> >>
> >
> > Yes, this "Mapping" table is what we have designed
> in
> > the BDBDesign group.  Any time someone wants to
> give
> > us new data, we simply tack it on to this mapping
> > table.  The main ID would be numeric, and would
> link
> > all the associated tables.
> >
> > So, if someone is compiling minor league records,
> and
> > they have Tim Raines as raiti001, that's fine, and
> we
> > just tack that on to the mapping table to ID
> 67934.
> > HAve multiple sources for MLB data (Lahman, Retro,
> > STATS, MLB, etc)?  No problem.  Everything gets
> > plugged in there.
> >
> > We had a long discussion on this topic at the
> above
> > mentioned group, which you might want to
> reference.
>
> As I understand the e-mails above, I don't agree
> that the mapping table
> strategy you're describing is the same as the
> strategy Tom R. would use
> for a master table.
>
> Here's what I think Tom R. is referring to (stripped
> down):
>
> ID,MLB?,HOF?,JAPNLG?,...
> cobbty01,Y,Y,N,...
>
> Here's what I think Tom (Tangotiger) is describing:
> ID,LahmanID,StatsID,RetroID
> 14567,cobbty01,5678,cobbt001
>
> As I see it, the current strategy is very similar to
> the second; it just
> pretends HOF, Manager, executive, etc. info is from
> a separate source.
>
> Regards,
> Derek
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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Kevin,
Are you compiling the fielding data by hand?  I just found out that MLB has
made that data available. I have a copy which I can send you if it would
help.

I'm having great trouble tracking down a few fields for pitchers (BFP, SH,
SF, GDP).  I suspect I may have to manually go through all 34 games to get
the data.  Any other suggestions?

Regards,
Sean Lahman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:22 AM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: Post-season
>
>
>
>
> Sean:
>
> How are you designating the "ROUND" field for the division series, as
> far as which is #1 and which is #2?  Is it:
>
> Team-Team-ROUND
> SLN - LAN - NLDS1
> ATL - HOU - NLDS2
> ANA - BOS - ALDS1
> NYA - MIN - ALDS2
>
> or some vice versa?
>
> Postseason fielding stats coming shortly..
>
> THANKS,
> Kevin
>
> --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Sean Lahman"
> <slahman@b...> wrote:
> > I will take care of the postseason batting and pitching this
> weekend, as
> > well as the SeriesPost table.  If anyone else has started this
> work, please
> > let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.
> >
> > I'll also take care of updating the various awards tables over the
> next
> > week, as the announcements come in.
> >
> > The other task remaining is to fix the BirthState info in the
> master table.
> > Is there anything else that needs to be done to make the 2004 update
> > complete?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sean Lahman
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> > > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sean:
> > >
> > > I had planned on working on the Postseason Fielding data, but
> > > with "my Cardinals" playing until the last game of the season,
> and a
> > > deadline upcoming for park data for "Green Cathederals IV" I
> probably
> > > wouldn't be able to complete it until next week.
> > >
> > > THANKS,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "anson2995"
> <slahman@b...>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState
> field
> > > in
> > > > the master file is truncated.  All but 2 or 3 players have a
> one-
> > > > letter value in the field.
> > > >
> > > > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Sean Lahman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Re: Post-season
From: "Sean Lahman"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:48:43 -0500
From: "Sean Lahman"
Subject: RE: Re: Post-season

Kevin,
Are you compiling the fielding data by hand? I just found out that MLB has
made that data available. I have a copy which I can send you if it would
help.

I'm having great trouble tracking down a few fields for pitchers (BFP, SH,
SF, GDP). I suspect I may have to manually go through all 34 games to get
the data. Any other suggestions?

Regards,
Sean Lahman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:22 AM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: Post-season
>
>
>
>
> Sean:
>
> How are you designating the "ROUND" field for the division series, as
> far as which is #1 and which is #2? Is it:
>
> Team-Team-ROUND
> SLN - LAN - NLDS1
> ATL - HOU - NLDS2
> ANA - BOS - ALDS1
> NYA - MIN - ALDS2
>
> or some vice versa?
>
> Postseason fielding stats coming shortly..
>
> THANKS,
> Kevin
>
> --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Sean Lahman"
> wrote:
> > I will take care of the postseason batting and pitching this
> weekend, as
> > well as the SeriesPost table. If anyone else has started this
> work, please
> > let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.
> >
> > I'll also take care of updating the various awards tables over the
> next
> > week, as the announcements come in.
> >
> > The other task remaining is to fix the BirthState info in the
> master table.
> > Is there anything else that needs to be done to make the 2004 update
> > complete?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sean Lahman
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> > > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sean:
> > >
> > > I had planned on working on the Postseason Fielding data, but
> > > with "my Cardinals" playing until the last game of the season,
> and a
> > > deadline upcoming for park data for "Green Cathederals IV" I
> probably
> > > wouldn't be able to complete it until next week.
> > >
> > > THANKS,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "anson2995"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this, but the BirthState
> field
> > > in
> > > > the master file is truncated. All but 2 or 3 players have a
> one-
> > > > letter value in the field.
> > > >
> > > > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Sean Lahman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


http://www.baseball-databank.org/
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kevin,

Before you try to do too much parsing, send me your
Word file, and I'll see if I can turn it into a csv
file automatically.

Tom


--- KJOK <kjokbaseball@...> wrote:

> Sean:
>
> Partly by hand, but am using MLB.COM and the
> Retrosheet playoff game logs, especially to verify
> OF positions (RF, LF, CF).
>
> What do you mean by copy?  In a spreasheet
> delimeted, or in MSWord or Adobe?  I already have it
> in Word, but couldn't get it delimeted to a
> spreadsheet properly, so had to do mostly by hand.
> If you have it in delimited spreadsheet form, please
> send it!
>
> I haven't come across any postseason totals for BFP,
> SH, SF, GDP on any site - sorry!
>
> Kevin
>
>
> baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. RE: Re: Post-season
> From: "Sean Lahman"
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:48:43 -0500
> From: "Sean Lahman"
> Subject: RE: Re: Post-season
>
> Kevin,
> Are you compiling the fielding data by hand? I just
> found out that MLB has
> made that data available. I have a copy which I can
> send you if it would
> help.
>
> I'm having great trouble tracking down a few fields
> for pitchers (BFP, SH,
> SF, GDP). I suspect I may have to manually go
> through all 34 games to get
> the data. Any other suggestions?
>
> Regards,
> Sean Lahman
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:22 AM
> > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: Post-season
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sean:
> >
> > How are you designating the "ROUND" field for the
> division series, as
> > far as which is #1 and which is #2? Is it:
> >
> > Team-Team-ROUND
> > SLN - LAN - NLDS1
> > ATL - HOU - NLDS2
> > ANA - BOS - ALDS1
> > NYA - MIN - ALDS2
> >
> > or some vice versa?
> >
> > Postseason fielding stats coming shortly..
> >
> > THANKS,
> > Kevin
> >
> > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Sean
> Lahman"
> > wrote:
> > > I will take care of the postseason batting and
> pitching this
> > weekend, as
> > > well as the SeriesPost table. If anyone else has
> started this
> > work, please
> > > let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.
> > >
> > > I'll also take care of updating the various
> awards tables over the
> > next
> > > week, as the announcements come in.
> > >
> > > The other task remaining is to fix the
> BirthState info in the
> > master table.
> > > Is there anything else that needs to be done to
> make the 2004 update
> > > complete?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Sean Lahman
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> > > > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sean:
> > > >
> > > > I had planned on working on the Postseason
> Fielding data, but
> > > > with "my Cardinals" playing until the last
> game of the season,
> > and a
> > > > deadline upcoming for park data for "Green
> Cathederals IV" I
> > probably
> > > > wouldn't be able to complete it until next
> week.
> > > >
> > > > THANKS,
> > > > Kevin
> > > >
> > > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com,
> "anson2995"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this,
> but the BirthState
> > field
> > > > in
> > > > > the master file is truncated. All but 2 or 3
> players have a
> > one-
> > > > > letter value in the field.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Sean Lahman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
=== message truncated ===


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At 01:14 AM 11/13/2004, Kevin wrote:
>
>I haven't come across any postseason totals for BFP, SH, SF, GDP on any
>site - sorry!

BFP is on the MLB.com site - page 3 of pitcher stats has a PA column, which
is BFP. If you go the the team page for each of the postseason teams, you
click on the Stats link, select Pitching Stats and Postseason 2004 from the
options available, and then use the Next Stats link until you get to the
third page.

For SH, SF, and GDP, you will have to go to the individual box scores.

Mike Emeigh
piratefan1@...

Thanks, Mike.  I was looking in a different section of the website.  Not
sure if they intended for their site's presentation to be so unwieldy, but
it's hard to imagine why they organized things he way they did.

--S

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Emeigh [mailto:piratefan1@...]
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 12:51 PM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [baseball-databank] Digest Number 538
>
>
>
> At 01:14 AM 11/13/2004, Kevin wrote:
> >
> >I haven't come across any postseason totals for BFP, SH, SF, GDP on any
> >site - sorry!
>
> BFP is on the MLB.com site - page 3 of pitcher stats has a PA
> column, which
> is BFP. If you go the the team page for each of the postseason teams, you
> click on the Stats link, select Pitching Stats and Postseason
> 2004 from the
> options available, and then use the Next Stats link until you get to the
> third page.
>
> For SH, SF, and GDP, you will have to go to the individual box scores.
>
> Mike Emeigh
> piratefan1@...
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The SH, SF, and GDP stats can be found at mlb.com

Go to stats, (basic postseason stats) click on the
desired player, click on the post season and all star
link and then the next stats link.

mike

Mike Welsh wrote:

> The SH, SF, and GDP stats can be found at mlb.com
> Go to stats, (basic postseason stats) click on the
> desired player, click on the post season and all star
> link and then the next stats link.

I can provide this data if needed, but it now sounds as if you
no longer need this data.  Is this correct?

Tom Ruane

At 08:52 PM 11/13/2004, Mike Welsh wrote:

>The SH, SF, and GDP stats can be found at mlb.com
>
>Go to stats, (basic postseason stats) click on the
>desired player, click on the post season and all star
>link and then the next stats link.

That's only for batters - Sean L. was looking for that data for pitchers.

Mike Emeigh
piratefan1@...

That is correct.  I'm looking for these stats for pitchers.
--SL

Mike Emeigh wrote...
>
> At 08:52 PM 11/13/2004, Mike Welsh wrote:
>
> >The SH, SF, and GDP stats can be found at mlb.com
> >
> >Go to stats, (basic postseason stats) click on the
> >desired player, click on the post season and all star
> >link and then the next stats link.
>
> That's only for batters - Sean L. was looking for that data for pitchers.
>

Tom:

Great!  As I've been working starting with the World Series and going
backwards, I'm sending you the Division Series Fielding file.

Good luck!

THANKS,
Kevin

--- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, Tangotiger
<tangotiger@y...> wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> Before you try to do too much parsing, send me your
> Word file, and I'll see if I can turn it into a csv
> file automatically.
>
> Tom
>
>
> --- KJOK <kjokbaseball@y...> wrote:
>
> > Sean:
> >
> > Partly by hand, but am using MLB.COM and the
> > Retrosheet playoff game logs, especially to verify
> > OF positions (RF, LF, CF).
> >
> > What do you mean by copy?  In a spreasheet
> > delimeted, or in MSWord or Adobe?  I already have it
> > in Word, but couldn't get it delimeted to a
> > spreadsheet properly, so had to do mostly by hand.
> > If you have it in delimited spreadsheet form, please
> > send it!
> >
> > I haven't come across any postseason totals for BFP,
> > SH, SF, GDP on any site - sorry!
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > There is 1 message in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1. RE: Re: Post-season
> > From: "Sean Lahman"
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:48:43 -0500
> > From: "Sean Lahman"
> > Subject: RE: Re: Post-season
> >
> > Kevin,
> > Are you compiling the fielding data by hand? I just
> > found out that MLB has
> > made that data available. I have a copy which I can
> > send you if it would
> > help.
> >
> > I'm having great trouble tracking down a few fields
> > for pitchers (BFP, SH,
> > SF, GDP). I suspect I may have to manually go
> > through all 34 games to get
> > the data. Any other suggestions?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sean Lahman
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:22 AM
> > > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [baseball-databank] Re: Post-season
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sean:
> > >
> > > How are you designating the "ROUND" field for the
> > division series, as
> > > far as which is #1 and which is #2? Is it:
> > >
> > > Team-Team-ROUND
> > > SLN - LAN - NLDS1
> > > ATL - HOU - NLDS2
> > > ANA - BOS - ALDS1
> > > NYA - MIN - ALDS2
> > >
> > > or some vice versa?
> > >
> > > Postseason fielding stats coming shortly..
> > >
> > > THANKS,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com, "Sean
> > Lahman"
> > > wrote:
> > > > I will take care of the postseason batting and
> > pitching this
> > > weekend, as
> > > > well as the SeriesPost table. If anyone else has
> > started this
> > > work, please
> > > > let me know so I don't duplicate the effort.
> > > >
> > > > I'll also take care of updating the various
> > awards tables over the
> > > next
> > > > week, as the announcements come in.
> > > >
> > > > The other task remaining is to fix the
> > BirthState info in the
> > > master table.
> > > > Is there anything else that needs to be done to
> > make the 2004 update
> > > > complete?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Sean Lahman
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: KJOK [mailto:kjokbaseball@y...]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:14 PM
> > > > > To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [baseball-databank] Post-season
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sean:
> > > > >
> > > > > I had planned on working on the Postseason
> > Fielding data, but
> > > > > with "my Cardinals" playing until the last
> > game of the season,
> > > and a
> > > > > deadline upcoming for park data for "Green
> > Cathederals IV" I
> > > probably
> > > > > wouldn't be able to complete it until next
> > week.
> > > > >
> > > > > THANKS,
> > > > > Kevin
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com,
> > "anson2995"
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't know if anybody has mentioned this,
> > but the BirthState
> > > field
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the master file is truncated. All but 2 or 3
> > players have a
> > > one-
> > > > > > letter value in the field.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, is anybody working on postseason data?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Sean Lahman
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> >
> > http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

1) The 2004prelim batting, pitching, and fielding files have some
'NULL's in them.  Intentional?

2) For pitchers, which definition of games is being used in the
batting table?  Take for example Paul Abbott.  Abbott appeared in 10 G
for TB (no interleague) and 10 G for PHI (2 interleague away (DH)
games).  ESPN and MLB show 8 G, which makes sense to me.  The
2004prelim batting table on bbdb shows 10 G for TB but 8 G for PHI.
How were these numbers created?  It seems like he gets batting G for
all DH games when he played in the AL but not for DH games
(interleague) when he played in the NL.  It seems like a mixture of
methods #2 (as PHI) and #3 (as TB) in Michael Mavrogiannis' post

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/baseball-databank/message/1932

are being used.  Surely that can't be the best way, can it?

Did we ever resolve if the baseball-databank data was going to
contain games played information?  Right now, there's no way from
the 2004 data that was recently posted to determine how many
games many AL pitchers actually appeared in.  I know we discussed
this before, but this is a pretty basic piece of information to
be missing, and I can't believe that the resolution was to keep
the batting tables the way they are.  At one point someone
suggestion having an additional table to contain this single
piece of information, but this seems like a particularly inelegant
solution to this problem, especially when a much better and much
more obvious solution (use the games field in the batting table for
this) exists.

Tom Ruane

I think I understand the concern.  It is that pitchers are not credited with
a game played in the batting table if they appeared in a game where the
designated-hitter was in effect.  In most cases, this isn't a problem
because if a pitcher only appeared in games as a pitcher, the fielding table
and the pitching table give a full and accurate report.  The problem (I
believe) comes when an American League pitcher made appearances as a
pinch-hitter or pinch-runner.

What solution are you proposing, Tom?  Is it that the batting table would
credit an AL pitcher for a game played if the DH was in effect?  So then, a
pitcher who pinch hit in 2 games would have 30 games in the pitching table
and 32 in the batting table? (whereas now we show him with 30 in pitching
and 2 in batting).

If this is the case, can you update the batting table for the DH-era
pitchers?

Regards,
Sean Lahman



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tjruane [mailto:truane@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 3:36 PM
> To: baseball-databank@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [baseball-databank] Games Played
>
>
>
>
> Did we ever resolve if the baseball-databank data was going to
> contain games played information?  Right now, there's no way from
> the 2004 data that was recently posted to determine how many
> games many AL pitchers actually appeared in.  I know we discussed
> this before, but this is a pretty basic piece of information to
> be missing, and I can't believe that the resolution was to keep
> the batting tables the way they are.  At one point someone
> suggestion having an additional table to contain this single
> piece of information, but this seems like a particularly inelegant
> solution to this problem, especially when a much better and much
> more obvious solution (use the games field in the batting table for
> this) exists.
>
> Tom Ruane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.baseball-databank.org/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Tom Ruane raised a question about playerIDs last week, the problem that the
master table has three different sets of IDs to identify players in various
tables.  While I initially explained the rationale for the current design, I
have to confess that I wasn't involved in the decision to make that design
change, and the more I reflect on it, the less sense it makes to me. I'm
beginning to see why this current model is unwieldy. Perhaps someone from
the design committee can help me to understand why it makes any sense.

I understand the idea of mapping tables to integrate data sets from other
sources.  The current version of the master table has five fields for that
purpose right now. That's necessary and should continue. However, what I
guess I don't understand is the benefit of having the key value for the
master table split into a playerID, managerID, and hofID.  As Ruane
suggested, this causes problems in some of the other tables.  In the HOF
table for example, we record every player who received a vote for induction,
and these records all have an ID tagged with the "h" suffix.  What that
means, then, is that a player who received votes but wasn't elected "Lenny
Dykstra" has both a playerID and a hofID.  I don't know what this
accomplishes except creating confusion. It requires new IDs to be created
every year for existing players (Juan Samuel, for example, who received HOF
votes this year.) As both Ruane and F.X. Flinn argued, this approach
violates the basic tenets of a relational database.  Why not tag every
player with one ID when they make their debut and use that to identify them
in every table?

Whether the key identifier for someone in the master table is an integer or
a string, it's gotta be one value that never changes.  I propose that the
master table be simplified to remove the managerID and hofID fields and
consolidate them into one playerID field.  If anyone disagrees, please tell
me what I'm missing.

Regards,
Sean Lahman

I believe we said that the official league stats
actually uses the "G" field in the batting record to
denote all games played, regardless of whether the
player ever batted.

My preferred solution is to have an APPEARANCES table,
where you'd have things like: Start, Pinch Hit, Pinch
Run, Field Sub.  If we remember, the objective for the
BDB (eventually) is for it to be a DB geared for a DB
developer.  That DB developer would generate a DB for
the user that he'd like to see, most notably, having
the "G" the way everyone is used to.

Tom


--- tjruane <truane@...> wrote:

>
> Did we ever resolve if the baseball-databank data
> was going to
> contain games played information?  Right now,
> there's no way from
> the 2004 data that was recently posted to determine
> how many
> games many AL pitchers actually appeared in.  I know
> we discussed
> this before, but this is a pretty basic piece of
> information to
> be missing, and I can't believe that the resolution
> was to keep
> the batting tables the way they are.  At one point
> someone
> suggestion having an additional table to contain
> this single
> piece of information, but this seems like a
> particularly inelegant
> solution to this problem, especially when a much
> better and much
> more obvious solution (use the games field in the
> batting table for
> this) exists.
>
> Tom Ruane
>
>
>
>




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Sean,

You aren't missing anything.  The current proposal in
the BDB Design group is to have a single numeric,
never-changing, field.  This would be a PERSONid, and
we'd have a PERSONS table.

We'd also have a PERSONMAP table that would have all
the various IDs (including backward compatibility to
Lahman4, 4.5, 5, 5.1) to map all the various sources
of data to the PERSONid.

There are dozens of changes required to the current
version of the BDB so that we can finally have
something stable enough that we won't have to revisit
these issues.

Michael Westbay had also other fascinating ideas
regarding LOCATION and NAMES, which will become very
important once we incorporate Japanese data.

KJOK also has his PARKS db, which he and I normalized
2 years ago, and has not yet been incorporated into
the BDB.

I suggest that any change you make to the DB be done
all in one shot, so that you don't have several
releases over several months.

Tom




--- Sean Lahman <slahman@...> wrote:

> Tom Ruane raised a question about playerIDs last
> week, the problem that the
> master table has three different sets of IDs to
> identify players in various
> tables.  While I initially explained the rationale
> for the current design, I
> have to confess that I wasn't involved in the
> decision to make that design
> change, and the more I reflect on it, the less sense
> it makes to me. I'm
> beginning to see why this current model is unwieldy.
> Perhaps someone from
> the design committee can help me to understand why
> it makes any sense.
>
> I understand the idea of mapping tables to integrate
> data sets from other
> sources.  The current version of the master table
> has five fields for that
> purpose right now. That's necessary and should
> continue. However, what I
> guess I don't understand is the benefit of having
> the key value for the
> master table split into a playerID, managerID, and
> hofID.  As Ruane
> suggested, this causes problems in some of the other
> tables.  In the HOF
> table for example, we record every player who
> received a vote for induction,
> and these records all have an ID tagged with the "h"
> suffix.  What that
> means, then, is that a player who received votes but
> wasn't elected "Lenny
> Dykstra" has both a playerID and a hofID.  I don't
> know what this
> accomplishes except creating confusion. It requires
> new IDs to be created
> every year for existing players (Juan Samuel, for
> example, who received HOF
> votes this year.) As both Ruane and F.X. Flinn
> argued, this approach
> violates the basic tenets of a relational database.
> Why not tag every
> player with one ID when they make their debut and
> use that to identify them
> in every table?
>
> Whether the key identifier for someone in the master
> table is an integer or
> a string, it's gotta be one value that never
> changes.  I propose that the
> master table be simplified to remove the managerID
> and hofID fields and
> consolidate them into one playerID field.  If anyone
> disagrees, please tell
> me what I'm missing.
>
> Regards,
> Sean Lahman
>
>
>




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