Hi Mike,

Thanks so much for your input on our efforts to get a skatepark built in Ann
Arbor. As we continue our dialogue with the community, it's refreshing to know
that there are passionate skaters and supporters who care about skateboarding
now, and for the future. People like you are the ones who made this kernel of an
idea explode into a reality.

You have some valid points regarding the positive attributes of an indoor skate
facility. However, in the past two years of working with the City of Ann Arbor
Parks Commission, City Council, skaters of all ages, business owners, parents,
skatepark builders, professional skateboarders, and non-skating citizens, we've
found that an outdoor, concrete, free-to-use skatepark is the way to go. Mostly,
what it all comes down to is money, but there are other factors to consider as
well.

Your first point, about the skatepark only being useful in the summer months, is
an interesting one. I suppose if you want to simply wear a t-shirt and shorts
when skating, then you may be right. But, living in Michigan, we all know we
can't even count on summer months being warm enough for t-shirts and shorts
(take last week for example). You're right, you can't usually skate outdoors in
Michigan in January. But, outdoor skateparks in Michigan are skateable nearly
3/4 of the year. Sure, it can be cool skating outside in the early spring or
late fall, but so can running, hiking, playing soccer/tennis/softball or riding
bikes. Living in a cool climate means dressing for the weather. We skate 'til
the snow falls, and get out there as soon as it melts. Indoor facilities are
nice, but not necessary to enjoy the sport. Having said that, there are
skateparks that have "indoor" aspects to them. See this one for an example:
http://concretedisciples.com/skateparksdb/skateparks_display.php?id=1300
However, building an indoor section of the skatepark will significantly add to
the costs of construction.

Your arguments for wood materials vs. concrete seem to be personal, rather than
practical. The main thing a skater wants in a skatepark is skateability.
Concrete is fast, smooth, and versatile. When built by a reputable, experienced
skatepark builder, a concrete skatepark will have trick-to-trick/turn-to-turn
lines that are easy to keep speed in, and allow the skater to link up
tricks/maneuvers in many different ways. I'm not sure what tricks can only be
done on wood, and not on concrete. Could you post some videos or pictures? To
most skaters, a stair set is a stair set, whether it is concrete or wood. But,
when you get to talking about ledges, ramps, bowls and banks, concrete is going
to offer a much smoother, durable riding surface. Wood is slicker, for sure,
allowing one to slide wheels more easily, but I've known skaters who have been
doing slides on concrete (even rough, street concrete) for decades. We're
looking to build a world-class facility that will have beginner, intermediate,
and expert areas. If a skater feels that one part of the skatepark is too
challenging, they'll be able to go over to another part of the park that will be
right for them to learn on. This is not unlike a runner who's not quite ready
for a marathon. They may try a 10k or 5k race first as a beginner.

The surface of a good concrete skatepark is not rough to the touch. I encourage
you to head out to Riley Skatepark in Farmington Hills and run your hand along
any of the surfaces. You'll find that they're almost as smooth as glass. If
you're skating a skatepark that is constantly tearing up your skin, here are
some things that may be factors: 1. The skatepark was not built by an
experienced, quality skatepark builder (go to the Niles, MI skatepark for an
example of a good skatepark with a poor surface). 2. You're not wearing your
safety equipment (I don't have an argument for making a safer skatepark for
those who do not want to wear safety equipment). 3. You're skating an area that
is above your skating ability (I recently skated Bob Burnquist's Mega Ramp. I
chose to do a kickturn on the 30' tall quarter pipe. I knew that hitting the
jump was not in my better interest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_1Y8UoLIu4 ).

Your point regarding upkeep and maintenance is one we've been discussing since
the idea of an Ann Arbor Skatepark came about. As you've mentioned, we would not
want to have a wooden skatepark that is run-down, with splintered surfaces. My
friends and I have been building wooden ramps for years. We still have a wooden
half-pipe. With daily usage, the surfaces need to be replaced quite often. A
sheet of plywood or Skatelite is going to cost from $30 to $100. Multiply that
by how many sheets needed and how many times a year they need to be replaced,
and you're looking at massive annual maintenance costs (on our 24' wide, 6' tall
halfpipe, roughly 700 square feet of surface, it costs about $500 to replace the
surface. For a 30,000 square foot park it would run into the tens of thousands).
Also, decks, lips, corners and edges of ramps need to be kept up. Daily
inspections of the surfaces, including looking for screws that have popped up,
require a paid employee to be on hand, adding to the annual costs. Sure, a
wooden skatepark is cheaper up front, but over the decades that we hope to use
this public skatepark, the maintenance costs would be phenomenal. A concrete
park, on the other hand, will be a larger price up front, but the annual
maintenance costs will be around $5,000.

How long will an outdoor, concrete skatepark last in Michigan? Well, it's hard
to tell, as most Michigan concrete skateparks have not been around for more than
a decade. Let's take a look at one that's in our climate, but not in Michigan.
Sarnia, Ontario has had a skatepark in one of it's public parks for nearly 30
years. I stopped by a few years ago to check it out. It's still there, in great
shape. Sure, it's not the kind of facility we're looking to build, but just like
any other concrete structure, if it's built right, it's going to last. Many
skaters still make a point of visiting this classic skatepark every once in a
while: http://staplesworks.com/skaterpics/sarnia/

The final, and probably most important reason for having an outdoor, public,
FREE skatepark is to make it accessible to everyone. Skateboarding is a very
inexpensive sport to get started in. All you need is a board, wheels and trucks.
Most anyone can afford to participate in this healthy, active pastime. If one
has to pay to skate every time, the sport suddenly becomes restrictive and
exclusive. Using a couple great indoor, pay skateparks as examples, you can see
that skating on a regular basis could break most budgets. Modern Skatepark in
Royal Oak has a top-notch facility. They have a bowl, ramps and street area. We
go there once or twice a year: in the winter when it's too snowy to skate
outside. The cost to skate? $15 for a three-hour session. The K-Zoo Skate Zoo is
another great indoor pay park. There it costs $10 to skate. This is doable for
someone who lives nearby and has a nice, steady income. But, if you consider the
kid (or adult) who doesn't have $50 a week to spend on skating, you understand
how we start to exclude people from the sport. My buddies and I have decent
jobs, and transportation. We could probably afford to go to pay skateparks on a
regular basis, if we wanted to budget for that. But we, like many other
community members we talk to, believe that skateboarding should be no different
than playing basketball, tennis or riding bikes; if you want to do it, you
simply go to the park and play.

Many communities across Michigan have decided that a free, public, concrete
skatepark is the way to go. Here's a list of some of them:

Bay City
Belleville
East Lansing
Farmington Hills
Grand Haven
Howell
Huntington Woods
Ludington
Mason
Midland
Niles
Portage
Traverse City
Westland

Some of these parks are not the perfect, all-around parks that are ideal, but
the fact is that these cities have stepped up to make sure that their citizens
have options when it comes to outdoor activities.

So, thanks again for your email, Mike. And thanks for offering to sign the
online petition, but we're past the petition point now. What we need from people
is help in fundraising. Every dollar counts, as we work to raise nearly
$1,000,000 to build our skatepark.

Oh, and before you write-off all free, public, concrete skateparks, PLEASE go
skate Riley Skatepark in Farmington Hills. It's the best skatepark in Michigan,
and very close to you as well.

Sincerely,

Trevor Staples



Trevor Staples
Chair, The Ann Arbor Skatepark Action Committee
P.O. Box 3001
Ann Arbor, Michigan, 48106
734-223-9837


Dream it. Build it. Skate it.
http://www.a2skatepark.org





--- In a2skatepark@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <epoxamd2600@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I'm Mike, I'm a new comer to this group. At age 26 I've been skateboarding
for about 14 years now and live in Plymouth. So when I hear of any new skate
park going up I think that's awesome. However, one must take into consideration
that if a skate park is to be built out doors in Michigan, it is probably only
useful for about 3 or 4 months out of the entire year and only when it's not
raining, too hot, or too cold. (Considering about May through the end of August)
>
> Surely right now its summer and Riley skate park just opened but if we look at
the surrounding cities in this area, there are a few skate parks but almost none
of them are indoor skate parks. Almost all of the indoor skate spots around this
area have closed down or moved away. With a good indoor skate park one can
skateboard all year long any day of the week and that wouldn't depend on the
weather.
>
> Also skateboard ramps made from concrete have more disadvantages then other
types like wood, skatelite, metal and others. Many people may not realize this
but when you fall on to a concrete ramp you actually hit the surface harder then
you would a wood ramp. This is because when you fall on a wood ramp, that ramp
will actually absorb some of the impact.
> Now I usually wear all my pads, but in skateboarding one can never be totally
exempt from injury. If you fall on concrete and your skin hits the surface your
skin is likely to be removed and you'll be bleeding. If you fall on a wood ramp
you can get your skin removed but you're more likely to only have you're skin
burned and that is better because you may not be bleeding like you would had it
been concrete you fell on. Of course this also depends on the type of wood and
how well it was taken care of. Yes it's true you can get splinters on old wood
ramps after they've been left out in the rain, but who would neglect their ramps
to where they have such poor shape?
>
> (There are also some tricks and landing of tricks that can be done on
non-concrete ramps like wood that pretty much couldn't be done on concrete
because concrete does not allow any minor bit of slipping or sliding wheels
sideways. But I'm sure some people may debit that point)
>
> Another potential problem with concrete poured here in Michigan is that it is
susceptible to cracking and heaving during the freeze-and-thaw cycles. What
happens when you have a skate park with a concrete slab that doesn't fully
settle back down after a thaw cycle? You have two concrete surfaces at different
levels and an accident waiting to happen!
>
> To tell the truth I'd rather pay a few bucks to get into a skate park then go
to a free skate park that has never had any maintenance since it first open.
Most free skate parks only put money into the park once ever, and then it just
deteriorates from there on.
> (These last 2 things I mentioned is exactly what has happened at Belleville's
skate park. Which is currently one of the worst parks in my opinion)
>
> I want to sign the petition for a new skate park. Ann Arbor is a great place.
But I'd like to have some place to skate in the winter! So I can't say that I
fully support 100% a free concrete skate park. What can we do here? Could part
of it be Indoor?
>