In a message dated 11/1/2005 2:21:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cbot_kevin@... writes:

If not  for Henne's heroics, Golden would be one of the keys
to our unbeaten season  for his stellar play against
Michigan. (3 catches, 74 yards and he also  drew a key
interference penalty on our last drive.)

Penn State  Proud, Trader Kevin






you need to try and cut down on your incessant use of the word "would". the
woulda, shoulda, coulda, usage.

the simple facts are nobody Would have remembered golden from that  game.
what they Would have remember was the play by Z. which WOULD  likely have gone
down as one of the greatest plays in penn state  history had we won.

an interception on the last play might (would) have elevated another player
to a similar status.

golden did have a good game, no doubt.

bobby d


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bobby d:

>> kev, you have aaron harris as an all time great after a
42 carry, 6 game season. <<

No, I said he would have been an all-time PSU great had he
stayed healthy. He did not. Ce la vie.

Moreover, Aaron Harris had outstanding early numbers. In
his first two seasons (really just a season-and-a-half) he
carried 147 times for 848 yards (a solid 5.8 average). He
also caught 18 passes for 224 yards. He scored 11
touchdowns.

Do you deny he would have been an all-time great had he
stayed healthy? If so, I guess we'll have to agree to
disagree.

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin






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I think Kevin's underlying point is that, regardless of how many HS
all-America lists he made, Arlen Harris would not exactly have been the next
Curt Warner if he'd come to PSU and that was known at the time.
  Undoubtedly a BIG part of the reason Arlen got so much national attention
was that he was Aaron's brother. But even at the time I was not exactly
heartbroken Arlen went to U.Va. There were too many red flags. He was as big
as Aaron (wasn't he like 5-9??) and his reported 40 time was 4.5 -- not
exactly Ki-Jana Carter or even Kevin Jones/Lee Suggs-type speed. If he'd
come to PSU he would have been a Gerry Collins/Chris Eberly kind of tailback
-- if he played much at all.
   And his whole vibe seemed to be he was worried if he came to PSU that he'd
be moved to the secondary -- he didn't seem confident he would compete. When
they make statements like that, that's usually a sign they should go
elsewhere.
  There have been big HS prospects I was really sorry PSU didn't get.
Everybody knew Eddie George would be a good solid B10 back -- he was just a
horse. But they had just recruited Enis the year before and there was no way
they were going to get him.
  The Parade AA list is a funny thing. Lots of great football players, but
also quite a few good HS players who just kind of get on there without being
really great college prospects.
  I believe Corey Jones was a Parade AA, wasn't he? And when you actually saw
him play at PSU did you ever wonder why? He wasn't big or fast or elusive --
he just had no tools.
  By contrast, you watch Butler for three seconds and it is just
inconceivable that he didn't get major-college scholarships. And it had to
do almost totally with the fact that his high school didn't throw forward
passes his junior year.
  Tom


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Did they show the Lion and two band members dancing to Thriller in the
second half of the PU game on TV?

They did the full Michael Jackson dance in the  South end zone while the
PA played the song.

It was pretty good.

Tony D
PSU 79


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kevin, this is great stuff, you wonder how they ever got to 8-1?
  I think it could lead us to overconfidence. They did score 23 on Michigan,
and they even overcame a costly turnover in that game.
  Let's see how that occurred -- it is the nightmare vision I have for
Saturday. Michigan went to halftime up 13-3 and it wasn't enough.
  Wisconsin had FOUR scoring drives in the second half, three of them more
than 10 plays long. They just patiently wore Michigan's defense down.
  The drives were sleep inducing. Calhoun right, Calhoun left. If short
yardage, Calhoun again, otherwise have Stocco throw it for 7-8 yards. Stocco
throws to Calhoun a lot. If PSU can contain Calhoun, Wisconsin doesn't have
a lot of threats.
  Here's the link to the play by play. I think it's actually a bit scary.
Wisconsin had the kind of methodical drives against MIchigan that PSU was
unable to execute -- if they hadn't had trouble in the red zone, Wisconsin
would have won going away.
  http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/playbyplay?gameId=252670275&quarter=0
      FG 8:59 TAYLOR MEHLHAFF 43 YD FG Drive info: 11 plays, 37 yards.
   FG 12:47 TAYLOR MEHLHAFF 27 YD FG Drive info: 15 plays, 64 yards.
13
    TD 11:34 BRIAN CALHOUN 6 YD RUN (TAYLOR MEHLHAFF KICK) Drive info: 2
plays, 12 yards.
13 16
    TD 0:24 JOHN STOCCO 4 YD RUN (TAYLOR MEHLHAFF KICK) Drive info: 11 plays,
52 yards.
20 23
    Kevin wrote:

  Let's take a look at the national rank in
> Scoring Defense of Wisconsin's opponents to date:
>
> Bowling Green: 86
> Temple: 116
> North Carolina 72
> Michigan: 26
> Indiana: 90
> Northwestern: 100
> Minnesota: 80
> Purdon't: 106
> Illinois: 114
>
> Yikes!
>
> Moreover, this team has a terrible defense. They are 90th
> in Rushing Defense, 97th in Total Defense, and 51st in
> Scoring Defense.
>
> Wisconsin rankings summary: http://tinyurl.com/9pmg9
>
> With this game being played at Beaver Stadium, I can state
> with a large degree of confidence that if we protect the
> ball we will win easily.
>
> Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom Boyer:

>> The Parade AA list is a funny thing. Lots of great
football players, but also quite a few good HS players who
just kind of get on there without being really great
college prospects. I believe Corey Jones was a Parade AA,
wasn't he? And when you actually saw him play at PSU did
you ever wonder why? He wasn't big or fast or elusive--he
just had no tools. <<

But at least he had hands of stone.  :)

All seriousness aside, did anyone see him play in high
school? What did anyone see in him?

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin






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I found a link to the video. I thought it was lame, maybe
because the audio was crap.

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin





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1) Wisconsin's D won't beat PSU. But their O will eat so much clock it will
take away a LOT of scoring opportunities. They are EXACTLY the same kind of
team that shocked PSU at the Beav in 1995. Extremely patient, very few
turnovers, very strong and consistent. They play for first downs, not
touchdowns -- they almost never throw deep. Everything is short quick
passing. And lots and lots of Brian Calhoun, who is the best back PSU will
face this year not named Mike Hart (I'm not counting Moroney, who was not
himself against PSU).
  2) Wisconsin is definitely a second-half team. In every game against a
decent opponent, their scoring has been heavily weighted to the 3rd and
fourth quarters. Against several teams, including Michigan and Northwestern,
they appeared to be unstoppable in the fourth quarter.
  3) I don't know about statistically, but looking at the drives, their
running game looks really good. The only really good running team PSU faced
this year was Minnesota, but if there's any chance that game wasn't a good
guide (say, Minny OL was tired from the previous week), Wisconsin has the
potential to give PSU trouble.
  Purdue actually ran the ball OK against PSU. Their offense sputtered
because their QBs couldn't throw the ball. Stocco is 5X better than either
of the PU QBs -- he is accurate and reads defenses.
  I'm not saying Wisky should win. But they CAN win if PSU is just a little
bit sloppy and gives up possessions with turnovers, penalties and MRob not
hitting his receivers. It is completely unreasonable for PSU fans to expect
their defense to rack up unlimited 3-and-outs on the Wisconsin offense -- I
believe they are VERY good at getting 1st downs.
    On 11/1/05, Trader Kevin <cbot_kevin@...> wrote:
>
> Wisconsin is ranked 7th in the country in scoring at 39.67
> points per game. Upon further review, this number appears
> greatly inflated. Let's take a look at the national rank in
> Scoring Defense of Wisconsin's opponents to date:
>
> Bowling Green: 86
> Temple: 116
> North Carolina 72
> Michigan: 26
> Indiana: 90
> Northwestern: 100
> Minnesota: 80
> Purdon't: 106
> Illinois: 114
>
> Yikes!
>
> Moreover, this team has a terrible defense. They are 90th
> in Rushing Defense, 97th in Total Defense, and 51st in
> Scoring Defense.
>
> Wisconsin rankings summary: http://tinyurl.com/9pmg9
>
> With this game being played at Beaver Stadium, I can state
> with a large degree of confidence that if we protect the
> ball we will win easily.
>
> Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>  The drives were sleep inducing. Calhoun right, Calhoun left.
> If short yardage, Calhoun again, otherwise have Stocco throw
> it for 7-8 yards. Stocco throws to Calhoun a lot. If PSU can
> contain Calhoun, Wisconsin doesn't have a lot of threats.

Saw the same against Illinois.

Just take care of Calhoun and they are done offensively.

Tony D
PSU 79

> I found a link to the video. I thought it was lame, maybe
> because the audio was crap.
>
> Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin

I saw the video on line, too.

Didn't convey at all.

The crowd was into it.

Tony D
PSU 79

> 1) Wisconsin's D won't beat PSU. But their O will eat so much
> clock it will take away a LOT of scoring opportunities. They
> are EXACTLY the same kind of team that shocked PSU at the
> Beav in 1995.

Oy. 95.

I still visualize that game when I close my eyes.

Wisky gave us underneath passes all day long. We didn't get them. We
tried to run and throw deep.

I would LOVE this to be a repeat of 95 for Wisky. We would eat them
alive on curls and slants with our offense today.

Tony D
PSU 79

Tom Boyer:

>> But their O will eat so much clock it will take away a
LOT of scoring opportunities. <<

I dunno. I think we can agree they've played three good
teams: Michigan, Northwestern, and Minnesota.

Time of Possesion:

UW 34:31
UM 25:29

UW 30:36
NW 29:24

Minny 35:15
Wisky 24:45

Looks like a push to me.

>> Wisconsin is definitely a second-half team. In every
game against a decent opponent, their scoring has been
heavily weighted to the 3rd and fourth quarters. Against
several teams, including Michigan and Northwestern, they
appeared to be unstoppable in the fourth quarter. <<

But it works both ways.

Second half scoring:

UW 20
UM  7

NW 41
UW 31

Wisky 28
Minny 24

Again, pretty much a push, especially considering their
last touchdown against Minnesota was a defensive score.

>> I don't know about statistically, but looking at the
drives, their running game looks really good. <<

Against a bunch of dog-ass crap defenses.

>> I'm not saying Wisky should win. But they CAN win if PSU
is just a little bit sloppy and gives up possessions with
turnovers... <<

That will be the tale of this game.

Turnovers:

UW 1
UM 2
Wisky +1, wins.

UW 2
NW 2
Turnovers even, Wisky loses.

Minny 2
Wisky 1
Wisky +1, wins.

They are not a good enough team to beat us if we break even
in turnovers.

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin






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Yes, good point.
  In 1995 the O could be surprisingly ineffective -- Wally could be very
inconsistent and they were really missing Carter and Kyle Brady and
especially the FBs. So I think you're right -- they tried to impose their
offense on Wisc because they thought they couldn't lose the game.
  I do think this year everybody, MRob and coaches, talk about taking what
the defense gives them, which implies a flexibility in approach. Purdue
blitzes, so they run draws and screens. Minn keeps their safeties back in
coverage, so they attack the middle of the field.
  On 11/1/05, Defina, Anthony F. <tony.defina@...> wrote:

> Oy. 95.
>
> Wisky gave us underneath passes all day long. We didn't get them. We
> tried to run and throw deep.
>
> I would LOVE this to be a repeat of 95 for Wisky. We would eat them
> alive on curls and slants with our offense today.
>
> Tony D
> PSU 79
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Are you talking about post-game traffic?  Ohio State was an absolute nightmare. 
I am curious if Purdue was any better.  I'm doing a daytrip this Saturday and I
may park downtown if the lots are going to be crazy again.  Any info would be
appreciated.

JimK

   ----- Original Message -----
   Especially this past weekend.

   Not sure what it was but getting off campus was HORRIBLE.

   I usually park either in the Eisenhower parking deck or across the
   street from the HUB and have no problems getting of campus. This week, I
   saw cars going in directions I have never seen (including a stream going
   right into a dead-end that was an open road three years ago).

   I figured it was Homecoming. Lots of folks who don't come to many games
   all mixed up.

   Tony D
   PSU 79


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Are you talking about post-game traffic?  Ohio State was an
> absolute nightmare.  I am curious if Purdue was any better.
> I'm doing a daytrip this Saturday and I may park downtown if
> the lots are going to be crazy again.  Any info would be appreciated.

I had no problems with Ohio State. Got out very quickly.

Purdue was a mess. Worst I have ever seen it.

Though, I never park in the lots. I park on campus and walk. The traffic
I was seeing as horrible around Eisenhower, the Creamery, the Library,
etc. Usually breeze thru those areas post-game.

Tony D
PSU 79

Solution (albeit tongue-in-cheek)...  Have someone in the family
relocate to State College!  When my parents retired (and wanted out of
Pittsburgh)  it was just a matter of where in State College they would
settle.  College Heights - the section by North Halls, NLI, etc...

Most visiting for game day walk to/from.  I must admit, the scenery and
parking has changed!  They are now parking in the fields that border
Spanier's PSU house.

OK - tongue-n-cheek mode now off!  Go State - Beat Barry!!!!!

-Michael Miller
millems@...


======================
Are you talking about post-game traffic?  Ohio State was an absolute
nightmare.  I am curious if Purdue was any better.  I'm doing a daytrip
this Saturday and I may park downtown if the lots are going to be crazy
again.  Any info would be appreciated.
--JimK
==========
    Not sure what it was but getting off campus was HORRIBLE.

   I usually park either in the Eisenhower parking deck or across the
   street from the HUB and have no problems getting of campus. This
week, I
   saw cars going in directions I have never seen (including a stream
going
   right into a dead-end that was an open road three years ago).

   I figured it was Homecoming. Lots of folks who don't come to many
games
   all mixed up.

   Tony D
   PSU 79
==========

Thanks.  Also interested in any feedback on 80 east and 322 east after the game
last week.

JimK
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Defina, Anthony F.
   To: We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 6:19 PM
   Subject: RE: [We Are...Penn State] From a Purdue board


   > Are you talking about post-game traffic?  Ohio State was an
   > absolute nightmare.  I am curious if Purdue was any better.
   > I'm doing a daytrip this Saturday and I may park downtown if
   > the lots are going to be crazy again.  Any info would be appreciated.

   I had no problems with Ohio State. Got out very quickly.

   Purdue was a mess. Worst I have ever seen it.

   Though, I never park in the lots. I park on campus and walk. The traffic
   I was seeing as horrible around Eisenhower, the Creamery, the Library,
   etc. Usually breeze thru those areas post-game.

   Tony D
   PSU 79


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> bobby d will likely label these statistics "misleading."
> I'm sure Golden's numbers against Michigan are "misleading"
> as well.
>
> Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin

>Why do you think I put the raw data in there as well?

>BTW, this is how a ranking system starts. You do this kind of analysis,
>then start to put weight on things like home/away, runaway scores,
>aberrations (balancing average, mean and standard deviation). Weigh the
>criteria then rank the results and viola! You get to be the New Sagarin!

>Tony D



Statistics are like bikinis: what they conceal is more important than what they
reveal.

greylion



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 1, 2005, at 7:30 PM, We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> I found a link to the video. I thought it was lame, maybe
> because the audio was crap.
>
> Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin
>

Guess you had to be there. It was great. -- Brian



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 1, 2005, at 7:30 PM, We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Thanks.  Also interested in any feedback on 80 east and 322 east
> after the game last week.
>
> JimK
>


I concur with whoever (here on the list) suggested driving out of
State College on 26/64 North until it links up with 80 E in Lamar.
You generally skip the worst of the traffic this way. I also plan
(usually) on tailgating for an hour or two after the game to let the
initial swell dissipate. -- Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

So you take 80 instead of 322 to Doylestown?  Thanks.

JimK
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Brian Boger
   To: We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 7:34 PM
   Subject: [We Are...Penn State] Re: Purdue Board



   On Nov 1, 2005, at 7:30 PM, We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:

   > Thanks.  Also interested in any feedback on 80 east and 322 east
   > after the game last week.
   >
   > JimK
   >


   I concur with whoever (here on the list) suggested driving out of
   State College on 26/64 North until it links up with 80 E in Lamar.
   You generally skip the worst of the traffic this way. I also plan
   (usually) on tailgating for an hour or two after the game to let the
   initial swell dissipate. -- Brian

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually, his brother said he wanted to be his own man and didn't want to
be identified by his brother.  That's why he didn't pick PSU and ended up
at UVa.


> [Original Message]
> From: <ORIGINET@...>
> To: <We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 10/31/2005 11:27:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [We Are...Penn State] Came from Happy Valley, happy....
>
>
> In a message dated 10/31/2005 9:52:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> cabourezk@... writes:
>
> Actually, Arron came to PSU as a tailback.  He was moved to FB,  which he
> really didn't want to do.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> which also probably explains why his brother told us NO.
>
> bobby d
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
>
>

Kevin,

I don't care what he played in high school.  Aaron was recruited as a
tailback.  In fact played a little tailback at PSU.


> [Original Message]
> From: Trader Kevin <cbot_kevin@...>
> To: <We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: 11/1/2005 12:19:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [We Are...Penn State] Came from Happy Valley, happy....
>
> Chuck:
>
> >> Actually, Aaron came to PSU as a tailback. He was moved
> to FB, which he really didn't want to do. <<
>
> Absolutely not true. I saw him play at Downingtown, which
> tore up Cumberland Valley 21-7 in the 1994 PIAA AAAA East
> Final. (Askari Adams was CV's best player, playing QB and
> free safety.)
>
> Aaron played linebacker and fullback. (He was actually even
> better at linebacker than he was running the ball during
> that game, though he was clearly the best player on the
> field on both sides of the ball.) His running mate was
> tailback Bryn Boggs, who played a year for Wisconsin before
> transferring to Maryland.
>
> The following week Brandon Short stood Harris up at the
> goal line to win the state championship for McKeesport.
>
> Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
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traffis wasnt to bad, i got there about 5 hours before game time to beat it and
i left with 5.00 left in 4th to beat it afterwards.  I have seen worse

"Defina, Anthony F." <tony.defina@...> wrote:> Are you talking about
post-game traffic?  Ohio State was an
> absolute nightmare.  I am curious if Purdue was any better.
> I'm doing a daytrip this Saturday and I may park downtown if
> the lots are going to be crazy again.  Any info would be appreciated.

I had no problems with Ohio State. Got out very quickly.

Purdue was a mess. Worst I have ever seen it.

Though, I never park in the lots. I park on campus and walk. The traffic
I was seeing as horrible around Eisenhower, the Creamery, the Library,
etc. Usually breeze thru those areas post-game.

Tony D
PSU 79


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It will be much more pleasant this offseason if I can reply to their
usual taunts with "Big Ten champs, pal".

Mark

On Nov 1, 2005, at 7:57 AM, dave@... wrote:

>
> Suck it up Mark. You're Penn State! Tongue planted firmly in cheek.
>
> Anyway you can get to Scott's party a lot easier now.
>
> DaveK
>
> Quoting Mark Tomer <mtomer1@...>:
>   BTW, the new job is
>  in downtown Ann Arbor, across the street from Scorekeepers.  I started
>  two days after the loss to UM.  It REALLY sucked going into the belly
>  of the beast that day.
>  Mark

Wisconsin opponents national Scoring Defense rank:

Bowling Green: 86
Temple: 116
North Carolina 72
Michigan: 26
Indiana: 90
Northwestern: 100
Minnesota: 80
Purdon't: 106
Illinois: 114
AVERAGE: 88

Brian Gates:

>> I think if we replace Bowling Green with So. Florida,
Temple with Cincinnati, and Central Michigan with North
Carolina, we would have PSU's opponents defensive standings
(minus Indy), correct? <<

Penn State opponents national Scoring Defense rank:

South Florida: 22
Cincinnati: 86
Central Michigan: 38
Northwestern: 100
Minnesota: 80
The Ohio State: 14
Michigan: 26
Illinois: 114
Purdon't: 106
AVERAGE: 65

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin





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In a message dated 11/1/2005 4:18:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tboyer@... writes:

I think  Kevin's underlying point is that, regardless of how many HS
all-America  lists he made, Arlen Harris would not exactly have been the next
Curt  Warner if he'd come to PSU and that was known at the time.
Undoubtedly a  BIG part of the reason Arlen got so much national attention
was that he was  Aaron's brother. But even at the time I was not exactly
heartbroken Arlen  went to U.Va. There were too many red flags. He was as big
as Aaron (wasn't  he like 5-9??) and his reported 40 time was 4.5 -- not
exactly Ki-Jana  Carter or even Kevin Jones/Lee Suggs-type speed. If he'd
come to PSU he  would have been a Gerry Collins/Chris Eberly kind of tailback
-- if he  played much at all.




you are so funny. my point again. arlen was more highly regarded than his
brother coming out of high school (and he was way way more highly regarded  than
say austin scott at the same stage of his career). aaron had nothing  to do
with that fact. simple fact. he was better known to us because of  aaron. and
he told us, NO. arlen is big enough to play professional football. i  dont know
how big he was in HS. i never said arlen was kevin jones or anything  like
kevin jones so i really cannot understand why you are now bringing that up.  i
do think it is way off base to say that aaron either was or ever would have
been one of the all time greats at penn state based on his record (but obviously
  kev thinks so since those are his words).

i dont remember all the facts but arlen was also hurt in college. in 2000  he
played in 3 games. and kev forgot to mention he played behind antoine womack.
  in 2001 he was the starter after womack got hurt. he played 8 games and lead
the  team in carries for the season. by the way. kev tried to portray those
stats as  arlen's career stats. they were his stats for one year and 8 games.

in his one 8 game season arlen far surpassed any season that aaron had in
college. plus he has been in the pro's three seasons. if you wanna delude
yourself into thinking aaron is or was better go ahead. but there are no facts
that support that conclusion.

and that is my point.

i suppose kev would put guys that have one great season in the hall of fame
at penn state. well aaron wont make it. he did not have one great season.

bobby d


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Arlen also got caught up in the coaching changes at UVA. When Groh came in,
he wanted to go in another direction, and Arlen left disenchanted.
As bobby d has said, the kid made the St. Louis Rams when they were a
pretty good team, and he had some significant playing time. That's more
than you can say for the PSU tailbacks from that same period. I think he
would have done just fine at PSU.

Rocko

At 10:00 PM 11/1/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>
>In a message dated 11/1/2005 4:18:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>tboyer@... writes:
>
>I think  Kevin's underlying point is that, regardless of how many HS
>all-America  lists he made, Arlen Harris would not exactly have been the next
>Curt  Warner if he'd come to PSU and that was known at the time.
>Undoubtedly a  BIG part of the reason Arlen got so much national attention
>was that he was  Aaron's brother. But even at the time I was not exactly
>heartbroken Arlen  went to U.Va. There were too many red flags. He was as big
>as Aaron (wasn't  he like 5-9??) and his reported 40 time was 4.5 -- not
>exactly Ki-Jana  Carter or even Kevin Jones/Lee Suggs-type speed. If he'd
>come to PSU he  would have been a Gerry Collins/Chris Eberly kind of tailback
>-- if he  played much at all.
>
>
>
>
>you are so funny. my point again. arlen was more highly regarded than his
>brother coming out of high school (and he was way way more highly regarded
>than
>say austin scott at the same stage of his career). aaron had nothing  to do
>with that fact. simple fact. he was better known to us because of  aaron. and
>he told us, NO. arlen is big enough to play professional football. i  dont
>know
>how big he was in HS. i never said arlen was kevin jones or anything  like
>kevin jones so i really cannot understand why you are now bringing that
up.  i
>do think it is way off base to say that aaron either was or ever would have
>been one of the all time greats at penn state based on his record (but
>obviously
> kev thinks so since those are his words).
>
>i dont remember all the facts but arlen was also hurt in college. in 2000  he
>played in 3 games. and kev forgot to mention he played behind antoine womack.
> in 2001 he was the starter after womack got hurt. he played 8 games and lead
>the  team in carries for the season. by the way. kev tried to portray those
>stats as  arlen's career stats. they were his stats for one year and 8 games.
>
>in his one 8 game season arlen far surpassed any season that aaron had in
>college. plus he has been in the pro's three seasons. if you wanna delude
>yourself into thinking aaron is or was better go ahead. but there are no
>facts
>that support that conclusion.
>
>and that is my point.
>
>i suppose kev would put guys that have one great season in the hall of fame
>at penn state. well aaron wont make it. he did not have one great season.
>
>bobby d
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Tell your Penn State friends about us! If they
>want to subscribe, have them send a message to:
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>
>All "We Are...Penn State" messages are archived at:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/We_Are_Penn_State/messages
>
>
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>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

>> arlen was more highly regarded than his brother coming
out of high school. <<

Please cite some rankings.

>> i do think it is way off base to say that aaron would
have been one of the all time greats at penn state based on
his record (but obviously kev thinks so since those are his
words). <<

In the first third of a full career, Aaron rushed for 848
yards on 147 carries (a hefty 5.8 average), caught passes
for another 224 yards, and scored 13 touchdowns. Even if he
didn't improve as a junior and senior, that works out  to
2,500+ career rushing yards, almost 700 receiving yards,
and 39 touchdowns.

That would be enough to put him in the PSU's all-time top
ten in rushing, on the leader board of PSU's all-time
leaders in all-purpose running yardage, and he'd have been
a threat to break Lydell Mitchell's career touchdown mark
of 41. An all-time PSU great if he stays healthy? No doubt
about it, especially because he'd have probably been the
feature back in 1998 and 1999 with Enis gone.

>> in 2001 arlen was the starter after womack got hurt. he
played 8 games and lead the team in carries for the season.
<<

Please don't tell me you're bragging about a kid leading
his team in carries with 92. That's weak. Tell us about his
being second on the team in rushing touchdowns with one!

>> in his one 8 game season arlen far surpassed any season
that aaron had in college. if you wanna delude yourself
into thinking aaron is or was better go ahead. but there
are no facts that support that conclusion. <<

Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself. Arlen's entire
CAREER didn't match Aaron's freshman season!

Aaron as a freshman
105 carries for 587 yards
14 receptions for 165 yards
11 touchdowns

Arlen's career
147 carries for 581 yards
6 receptions for 33 yards
3 touchdowns

>> i suppose kev would put guys that have one great season
in the hall of fame at penn state. <<

What part of "if he'd stayed healthy" is unclear to you?
Obviously he didn't have a Hall of Fame career because he
tore up his knee.

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin





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