B. Gates wrote:

>
>You're memory is excellent.  Man, I remember that game against Alabama. I
>also remember in '89 Blair Thomas going all the way down the field but PSU
>going for a field goal with 1 yard to paydirt.  The kicked was blocked.  I
>sat next to the Alabama section at the Beav.  I remember the Ala players
>running toward my section.  I recall seeing Bill Curry doing flips.  I
>wondered why we didn't go for the TD.  But I thought, if we made the kick
>I'd be celebrating.  But I remembered that Ala. KNEW Blair Thomas was going
>to get the ball and crowding the line and still not stop him....all the way
>down the field.   Joe may still have been smarting from the Ala Sugar
>Bowl...only to be lost years later (at the Beav) against Mich.  Thanks for
>the post.  Ahhh, the good old days...when we lost games we were at least in.
>(ok with some exceptions)
>
>
>
>
Ummm, don't you know there is a "rule" about that game?  No talkee.  Old
Dude goes gray faster than 2001 Osama (not to be confused with the much
healthier -- it's that mtn climate and dialysis with dirty water keeps
him sharp -- 2004 version).

Other than Colorado '71, the only other game I lost it in.  And we've
had reasons to "lose it" quite often.

OD

on 11/1/04 9:26 PM, Bob at old.dude@... wrote:
> Ummm, don't you know there is a "rule" about that game?  No talkee.  Old
> Dude goes gray faster than 2001 Osama (not to be confused with the much
> healthier -- it's that mtn climate and dialysis with dirty water keeps
> him sharp -- 2004 version).
===

I know we are talking PSU football on this list but I can't let this slide
without setting it straight cause I know for real.  The most recent UBL tape
was actually produced by black-suited GOP operatives who also took down TWA
flight 800 in an attempt to discredit Clinton.  It's as plain as the nose on
your face and the scotch in my hand during PSU football games.  Think the
movie "Capricorn One".  I thought the UBL make-up looked good...however the
gray within the beard was too symmetrical to be realistic....a dead
giveaway....guy looked like a friggen skunk.  But the real giveaway was the
red sheet background.  If you digitalize it and drill down 400% into it at a
single pixel level with Adobe Photoshop from a still pulled for the video,
you will clearly discover the "per cale" count of the fabric.  Man, that's
the same cheap meant-to-look upscale crap Hilton buys by the skid for their
hotels.  My kid dumped his chocolate milk and linguine and clam sauce on it
just last week.  I'd know it anywhere. Nice try Feds but you can't fool this
PSU grad.

Brian '86

B. Gates wrote:

>on 11/1/04 9:26 PM, Bob at old.dude@... wrote:
>
>
>>Ummm, don't you know there is a "rule" about that game?  No talkee.  Old
>>Dude goes gray faster than 2001 Osama (not to be confused with the much
>>healthier -- it's that mtn climate and dialysis with dirty water keeps
>>him sharp -- 2004 version).
>>
>>
>===
>
>I know we are talking PSU football on this list but I can't let this slide
>without setting it straight cause I know for real.
>
>
Ha...then we oughta put you in charge of intel.  To be successful, do
what I do...flip coins. :>)

What is most amazing about the whole thing was that it had zero impact
at all on the voters.   Who would have bet on that?

BTW, don't forget that OBL speaks English fluently...why allow
interpretors to screw up his true intent?  AHA!!  He *wanted* differing
versions so no matter who wins, he can use it to his advantage.

Assuming *he* is alive.

OD

P.S.  A friend and I were talking and decided you could pick 10 people
at random (from a pool of those with an IQ in triple digits) and within
24 hours they'd fix the voting problems.

on 11/1/04 10:10 PM, Bob at old.dude@... wrote:
> Ha...then we oughta put you in charge of intel.  To be successful, do
> what I do...flip coins. :>)
===

Bob,
Just so we are clear, my post was intended solely as a venting...not
directed to anything or anybody.  I posted while falling off to
sleeeeppppp....

zzzz


Brian '86

In a message dated 11/1/2004 9:22:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bgates@... writes:
But I thought, if we made the kick
I'd be celebrating.  But I remembered that Ala. KNEW Blair Thomas was going
to get the ball and crowding the line and still not stop him....all the way
down the field.

11 straight carries.  our field goal kicker in those days was automatic.

but dig this.  i met blair in nyc.  he was near sighted.  he actually thought
he was into the endzone on that play.  the point, if he had known exactly
where he was and had some contacts he might have gotten in. one can only wonder
how great blair would have been if he had not had a serious injury.

blair and curt warner along with lydell mitchell could get deep down the
middle for a pass.  and make killer plays.  curt would just run it right up the
field in the seem.  blair would run it up and cut to the middle.  takes speed,
good hands, and balls.  that is a tough catch to make unless you have
tremendous concentration, focus and courage. they could also run the A and B
circle.
which can be a killer play.  when you wonder why we are so bad it is in part
because we dont have the talent to run those plays.  its not just the Xs and Os,
takes a lot of physical and mental talent. and a line you can count on.

bobbyd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

as i wrote a few of these stories about penn state football today, i reminded
myself of all the vivid memories i have in my mind dating back to lydell
mitchell.  poetry in motion.  my favorite players are lydell, curt, and bobby
engram.  doesn't mean i dont love a long list of our players, in a football
sense.
  i really like trey bauer and brandon noble.  i tend to favor guys that seem
to me to get everything and more out of what they got.

so while we are losing away it is easy for me to remind myself this is our
university and our players.  now don't get me wrong.  i could really go into a
funk for a day after a real big loss in the 70's and 80's.  more than once i
refused to go out to a party or something like that after a big one.  but i got
older and the ritual of saturdays just took on a different meaning.

i understand why the younger folks could get really bummed out.  part youth
and they just dont have the memories of greatness and miracles.  i mean how
could you not love our 86 team.  a qb who could do little but was a winner at
heart and a real leader. and a defense that played with the heart of the lion.
frankly, i thought one of our most overachieving teams was in 1996.  just a one
point loss from a shot at the promised land.  they overachieved in my
opinion.  97 and 99 did not play with the heart of the lion.  they lacked that
one
secret ingredient.  that one player that convinces all the rest--we will not
lose.

so anyway folks.  we have the heart of the lion on defense.  you just gotta
love the play of poz (gets in on every running play), hali (comes down the back
side like courtney brown) and a guy like zemaitis (automatic).  they are
being joined by dan connor. can you imagine this guy when he gets stronger?  if
we
had a guy like kim herring or mark robinson i would be thinking this defense
could rival any we have seen at penn state.

the real test for morelli in my opinion is, can he be a krenzel?  the kinda
of guy who shows up in the clutch and makes sure he doesnt do anything to lose
a game.  who knows?  with the team we have right this minutes all we need is a
ball control offense, that doesn't mess up, and scores just enough points.
obviously we need wideouts, and a top notch tight end would also be an
important key.

bobbyd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

B. Gates wrote:

>on 11/1/04 10:10 PM, Bob at old.dude@... wrote:
>
>
>>Ha...then we oughta put you in charge of intel.  To be successful, do
>>what I do...flip coins. :>)
>>
>>
>===
>
>Bob,
>Just so we are clear, my post was intended solely as a venting...not
>directed to anything or anybody.  I posted while falling off to
>sleeeeppppp....
>
>zzzz
>
>
>
Trouble with the internet is we never see the other guy...in this case,
I suspected that is exactly what you were doing.  My comment was totally
in jest...I will be so happy when this mess (I mean election) is over.

Sadly, that will probably be 6 months from now when the legal challenges
are over and President Edwards take office.  Sigh.

OD

> >
>Trouble with the internet is we never see the other guy...in this case,
>I suspected that is exactly what you were doing.  My comment was totally
>in jest...I will be so happy when this mess (I mean election) is over.
>
>Sadly, that will probably be 6 months from now when the legal challenges
>are over and President Edwards take office.  Sigh.
>
>OD

I hope you all got to see some of the SNL skits tonight on NBC. I was
switching back and forth from MNF. Some of the funniest stuff you'll ever
see on TV, and all because it's so real.

Happy Voting

Rocko

On Monday, November 1, 2004, at 08:12  PM,
We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> All good points.  It's one thing for fans to see what happened in the
> opening game and lose perspective, quite another for the staff of
> professionals with 5,000 years of coaching experience to get all loosey
> goosey.
>

Now I'm only chiding you -- but you've been telling me there is no
difference between the fans on the list and the staff of professionals
for some time now!

No, I agree. There is no way to look at the developments with this
football program over the past half a decade (or so) and not take issue
with the coaching at the end of the day. -- Brian

On Monday, November 1, 2004, at 08:12  PM,
We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> This is probably a stupid question.  We know the NCAA has a set number
> of
> hours it allows for practice during the season.  Wouldn't having one
> special teams coach be a problem?  He would have to move sequentially
> through the different special teams.  First he would have to practice
> field
> goal kicking, then punt returns, etc., till he got through them
> all.  Wouldn't it save time to divide it up the way Penn State does,
> so one
> guy could be coaching punt returns at the same time someone else is
> coaching field goals?  I'm just asking this philosophically, its not a
> comment on the actual coaching at Penn State.

Harold, don't apply critical thinking to the situation! I heard a
discussion of the different approaches college and pro football teams
take to coaching special teams on one of the endless ESPN daytime
football shows recently. If folks realized how many teams use the exact
same "division of labor" that PSU uses in both offensive play-calling
and special teams, they'd be surprised. The difference between some of
those teams (well actually all the ones I can think of) and us, is they
are currently doing it well. The problem isn't systemic, its
qualitative. -- Brian

Brian Boger wrote:

>On Monday, November 1, 2004, at 08:12  PM,
>We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>All good points.  It's one thing for fans to see what happened in the
>>opening game and lose perspective, quite another for the staff of
>>professionals with 5,000 years of coaching experience to get all loosey
>>goosey.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Now I'm only chiding you -- but you've been telling me there is no
>difference between the fans on the list and the staff of professionals
>for some time now!
>
>No, I agree. There is no way to look at the developments with this
>football program over the past half a decade (or so) and not take issue
>with the coaching at the end of the day. -- Brian
>
>
>
No, it's a good call on your part.  I knew what I was saying...  I
recognize (believe it or not :>) that it's a lot easier making decisions
in the arm chair than it is on the sidelines...whether it's play-calling
or use of personnel.

We're still smarter, of course.......   :>)

OD

On Monday, November 1, 2004, at 08:12  PM,
We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> OK, understood.  I remember that too.  It was just that you attributed
> this
> MRob thing to me in your previous post and I don't recall doing posting
> about MRob, only Morelli.  I think Morelli should start and build for
> the
> future now.  Coaches saying he's "not prepared" is more of a
> self-indictment
> than anything else in my book.
>
> Brian '86

I hear you. In my case I tend to think "not prepared" is less than the
honest answer. Kind of like Buddy Ryan saying "All he does is catch
touchdowns" but the possibility exists that its not.

If you weren't an MRob guy last season .... my bad. Damned those guys
are hard to find. -- Brian

On Monday, November 1, 2004, at 08:12  PM,
We_Are_Penn_State@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> some of you might remember the home game against alabama in 1987.  the
> year
> after we won the championship.  knizer got cold cocked and bill came
> into the
> game.  bill drove us straight down the field and ended the drive with a
> beautiful TD pass into the corner of the end zone.  second half starts
> and guess
> what?  knizer is right back in there.  turns out later on they find
> out knizer
> played with a mild concussion.  and we lost.  sound familiar?  i can
> still
> remember all the alabama fans asking me.  who is that number 9 and why
> didnt he play
> in the second half?  i was also at the inaugural blockbuster bowl when
> bill
> got in against FSU and tried to bring us back.  tom bill had a major
> alcohol
> problem, so maybe that is why he never realized his potential?  can
> you name our
> other alcoholic qb who did realize his potential?  this is no secret.
>
> i remember that game because i was sick as a dog.  had 102 temperature
> but
> sat the entire game in the rain and the mist.  i attended one other
> game with a
> 102 degree temperature in knoxville.  i was so sick my entire body was
> aching
> and i was shaking.  we made an almost amazin comeback but lost.  think
> i would
> do that now?
>
> bobbyd

That game was my absolute nightmare. Though a long-time PSU fan before
1987, 1986 was actually my freshmen year. Therefore the Alabama game
you mention was actually my first "loss" of my PSU student career. We
had planned a big gig at the apartment for post-game (which was
actually pretty late) and instead we were all shocked silent. It had
literally escaped my conscience that we could lose! Those were the days!

Another low-light was in (I think) 1991 when we went to BYU and the
team basically quit. I remember Paterno later said that watching the
(1992?) National Championship between Alabama and Miami reassured him
that his brand of football had not "gone out of date" (my quote marks
for emphasis). -- Brian

In a message dated 11/1/2004 9:22:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bgates@... writes:

> I wondered why we didn't go for the TD.  But I thought, if we made the kick
> I'd be celebrating.

We didn't go for the TD because Penn State screwed up and called its last
time out.  It was a FIRST DOWN on the 1 foot line.  I was sitting in that end
zone.  The clock was stopped.  There was 20 so seconds left.  There was time to
line up while the chains moved, run the ball one play... and still call time
out for the field goal if they didn't get in.

But instead, Blair called time out... and we had to go for three.  Some
people might have thought it was best to go for 3 anyway...   I look at it the
way
a bridge player does -- give yourself two chances when you can instead of one.


I watched the tape a few days later and noticed that the announcers never
even noticed that PSU could have allowed itself to run a play before calling
time
out.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I only missed Greg's...

October 30th
	 Penn State Ohio State
Actual Score 10 21

Predictions
Mr. Unreal 27 24
ZZZ Default 0 0
B&W's Donald W 10 28
B&W Chris M 13 17
B&W's Mark B 2 3
B&W's Matt H 6 17
B&W's Phil Grosz 27 13
ZZZ Default 0 0
ZZZ Default 0 0
Bobby D 22 13
Brian '86 7 24
Chuck 7 20
ZZZ Default 0 0
Collegefootballnews.com  13 7
Dave (me) Kroll 10 9
Dave Carr 7 16
Doylestown Brian 9 19
ZZZ Default 0 0
Frank Goss 10 13
Gabe 8 20
ZZZ Default 0 0
Greg Roar Lion Roar 17 14 1
Harold 5 9
ZZZ Default 0 0
Jay Herman   17 16
Jeff Cyphert 6 17
Jerry Lorow 13 7
Jim (JRR) 0 20
Jim '74 Hauze 17 13
Jim Keef 3 20
Joe Keffer 35 0
Joe Noll 10 17
ZZZ Default 0 0
ZZZ Default 0 0
John Kolenik 6 18
ZZZ Default 0 0
ZZZ Default 0 0
ZZZ Default 0 0
ZZZ Default 0 0
Mark Cronmiller 0 13
Mark Tomer 9 19
Mark Janosky 14 24
Mike Miller 16 15
NittanyKat 11 22
OD (Ol' Dude) 19 9
PSU Playbook Chris 2 16
PSU Playbook Mark 3 12
PSU Playbook Nirav 7 20
R&N Winning 0 16
ZZZ Default 0 0
Rich Conboy 0 24
Rob 2004 2 3
Rocko 0 3
Steve Roman '93 10 26
Steve Nittany 1225 3 24
TD Darlington 33 13
TJ 13 10
ZZZ Default 0 0
Trader Kevin 9 13
Mr Average 10 15

>That game was my absolute nightmare. Though a long-time PSU fan before
>1987, 1986 was actually my freshmen year. Therefore the Alabama game
>you mention was actually my first "loss" of my PSU student career.

>Another low-light was in (I think) 1991 when we went to BYU and the
>team basically quit. -- Brian

Was my first loss too.  I think that FG is why I still get skiddish anytime PSU
is kicking the ball...whether an extra point or a 50-yarder.

Since we're on lowlights, how about the 1992 24-3? bowl loss to Stanford?  That
was bad...even by today's very-reduced standards.

JimK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> some of you might remember the home game against alabama in 1987...
> bobbyd

That game was my absolute nightmare. Though a long-time PSU fan before

1987, 1986 was actually my freshmen year. Therefore the Alabama game
you mention was actually my first "loss" of my PSU student career. We
had planned a big gig at the apartment for post-game (which was
actually pretty late) and instead we were all shocked silent. It had
literally escaped my conscience that we could lose! Those were the
days!...
-- Brian

===============================================================
If memory serves (and often mine does not!) was this not the same year
(same weekend?) that the Atlanta Braves came back to eliminate the
Pirates (the mighty Francisco Cabrera driving in the speedy Sid Bream)?
I seem to recall referencing that weekend as an all-time low on my
sports radar.  I was a kid from Pittsburgh that had been living in
Alabama for less than two years.  Fortunately I have gotten over my
obsession with the Pirates - now if I could work on that PSU obsession!

-Michael Miller

>> Collegefootballnews.com 13-7 <<

No, they had it 7-13.

>> Trader Kevin 9 13

No, I had it 3-9.

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com

JimK wrote:

>>That game was my absolute nightmare. Though a long-time PSU fan before
>>1987, 1986 was actually my freshmen year. Therefore the Alabama game
>>you mention was actually my first "loss" of my PSU student career.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Another low-light was in (I think) 1991 when we went to BYU and the
>>team basically quit. -- Brian
>>
>>
>
>Was my first loss too.  I think that FG is why I still get skiddish anytime PSU
is kicking the ball...whether an extra point or a 50-yarder.
>
>Since we're on lowlights, how about the 1992 24-3? bowl loss to Stanford?  That
was bad...even by today's very-reduced standards.
>
>
>
>
Clemson '88.  35-10 was bad enough, but they whipped us soundly in every
facet of the game.  Uggggly.

But for every downer there's an upper (so says the happy pill man), and
I'd add 83's improbable win over then #3 ranked Alabama.

That '83 team probably showed more grit than any other team from PSU.
Thy didn't have much talent, they're coming off a championship season
and in everyone's cross hairs, they start out 0-3 (annihilated by kNU)
and nearly lose to Temple to go 0-4, enter #3 Alabama a major league
underdog....and win (someone can help me out here -- wasn't that the
game we built a huge lead and almost lost at the end?).  Two weeks
later, they beat #5 WV at Homecoming and people think we've turned the
corner.

But then we lose to BC, beat Brown (!) and ND before an awful tie with
Pitt and a slim win over a decidedly better Washington team.  Aside from
a very young DJ Dozier and Jon Williams (I think Kenny Jackson and Scott
Radecic were on that team), we had nuttin (the year of the Strang-ler),
yet came back from 0-3 to finish 8-1-1 including the whupping of 2
"then" top 5 ranked teams.

Wasn't one of our prettier teams, but they get a lot of points for
heart.  When Doug Strang can lead you back from 0-3.... plenty of
character all around.

OD

>Clemson '88.  35-10 was bad enough, but they whipped us soundly in every
>facet of the game.  Uggggly.

>OD

Forgot about that Citrus Bowl debacle...I think I still have an old T-shirt from
that game.  That led to the 5-6 of 1989 and the SI article after our loss to UVA
entitled "A Very Sorry State".

JimK


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/2/2004 8:49:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
JimKPSU@... writes:
Since we're on lowlights, how about the 1992 24-3? bowl loss to Stanford?
That was bad...even by today's very-reduced standards.

JimK

at the time, it was the worst i had ever seen us play. by far.

bobbyd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 11/2/2004 11:48:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
old.dude@... writes:
we had nuttin (the year of the Strang-ler),
yet came back from 0-3 to finish 8-1-1 including the whupping of 2
"then" top 5 ranked teams.
  lol.  we also had dan lonergan.  who i think would have been really good.
dig this, he had cataracts.  the school wouldnt fix em and he couldnt afford it.

bobbyd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A guy nmaed Boallion posted a long (even longer than my stuff - by a
nose) evaluation of the program and Joe.  He made a couple of technical
errrors early on, but the piece was very nicely done.  One paragraph
summarized the way I feel about PSU FB (posted below).

Will it come to the point where we are 'just like an OK or Tenn,' or to
where our kids cannot handle themselves on TV without emabrrassing us?
I hope not...but I think he's speaking to those of us who have grown up
with the program from the beginning and truly have lived vicariously
through Joe's vision.  When that is gone, I'm hoping seasons of 9+ wins
will be a satisfactory trade-off...I already suspect it won't be enough.

OD
______________

"Joe's got it setup where the next guy is going to do very, very, very
well. The whole program is a national championship factory in waiting.
And when that happens, we're going to miss Joe a great deal. Because
when we win again, it will just be college football victories and
nothing more, like Oklahoma or Tennessee. With Joe, our victories were
always about so much more. It wasn't just a college football win, his
success was an affirmation of larger values -- education, sportmanship,
persistence, doing things the right way, competing at an elite level yet
being well rounded, actually getting a college degree after four years!
How will we feel when a Penn State player is interviewed after a game
and he is plainly unable to conjugate verbs? None of us are like Joe, or
even care to be, but we've all been privileged to vicariously share his
larger values and even feel a little superior to other college football
fans, because our program was about so much more than just wins. And we
all will miss it."

Boallion

Sorry Trader.  IN the past tyhe Penn State score was always FIRST.  So I have
gotten used to reading the predicted score PSU-whomever.  They B fixed.


Quoting Trader Kevin <cbot_kevin@...>:

>
>
>
>
>
> >> Collegefootballnews.com 13-7 <<
>
>
>
> No, they had it 7-13.
>
>
>
> >> Trader Kevin      9 13
>
>
>
> No, I had it 3-9.
>
>
>
> Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>            
>
> __________________________________
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
>
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
>
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tell your Penn State friends about us! If they
>
> want to subscribe, have them send a message to:
>
> We_Are_Penn_State-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> All "We Are...Penn State" messages are archived at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/We_Are_Penn_State/messages
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> We Are...Penn State
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>   Get unlimited calls to  U.S./Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/We_Are_Penn_State/
>  
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> We_Are_Penn_State-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
> A guy nmaed Boallion posted a long (even longer than my stuff - by a
> nose) evaluation of the program and Joe.  He made a couple of
> technical
> errrors early on, but the piece was very nicely done.  One paragraph
> summarized the way I feel about PSU FB (posted below).
>
> Will it come to the point where we are 'just like an OK or
> Tenn,' or to
> where our kids cannot handle themselves on TV without
> emabrrassing us?

I really don't think we will be straying from Joe's main vision with the next
coach (or the one after that, if it is within a few years).

We haven't compromised the overall vision for the althetic department and have
been very successful in everything excpet men's basketball and (the last few
years) football (and men's basketball may be on the upswing).

And, I am convinced that not a lot needs to be changed, actually.  There are
things that Joe does that annoy all of us (more for some than others) but they
are not completely out of the realm of what even the currently winningest
coaches do.  With little change (other than just people dynamics), we will be
back on top.

I will never be convinced that Joe is a dottering old fogey (yet) but it is easy
to see that the magic he had is not coming to him as it used to. Sometimes
change is for the good because change is just that, change.

I look at the Big 10 and see a lot of solid programs with plusses, but very few
(Michigan and Ohio State being the only ones) that are in our class in terms of
facilities, name recognition, location (geographic recruting base) and history.

The flavors of the year programs (Northwestern, Purdue, Minnesota, Iowa) are all
flawed in at least one of these aspects. And some others (MSU, Illinois, for
example) cannot get out of their own way for trying.

Tony D
PSU 79

Michael Miller:

>> If memory serves (and often mine does not!) was
this not the same year (same weekend?) that the
Atlanta Braves came back to eliminate the Pirates (the
mighty Francisco Cabrera driving in the speedy Sid
Bream)? I seem to recall referencing that weekend as
an all-time low on my sports radar. <<

October 10, 1992: Miami 17 Penn State 14
October 14, 1992: Braves 3 Pirates 2 (NLCS, Game 7)
October 17, 1992: Boston College 35 Penn State 32

Hire Urban Meyer!

Penn State Proud, Trader Kevin





__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com

Coatesville wins... YAAHOOOO.  I hope everyone has done there fair share of
voting today.


Quoting Bob <old.dude@...>:

>
>
>
>
>
> Coatesville won the boys championships in a landslide with 73 points. 
>
> Finishing 2nd and 3rd were Council Rock North and South, with 196 and 225.
>
>
>
> Impressive, right?
>
>
>
> Now, go through and count the kids who finished for Council Rock,
>
> whether north or south (iow, how it used to be before they went to 2
>
> schools).
>
>
>
> Council Rock: 60, and the District Champs.
>
>
>
> OD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tell your Penn State friends about us! If they
>
> want to subscribe, have them send a message to:
>
> We_Are_Penn_State-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> All "We Are...Penn State" messages are archived at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/We_Are_Penn_State/messages
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> We Are...Penn State
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>   ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/We_Are_Penn_State/
>  
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> We_Are_Penn_State-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Everything should be copacetic for the last 3 games. Joe is sanquine that
we have put most of the kerfuffles behind us! Apparently, he has not
been persnickety enough about the plethora of small mistakes along the
O-line, but those are lissome in comparison to the receiver's woes.  I
am personally thankful to the man for such an erudite statement.  Now
if the players are sedulous, we should get past this situation in which
the players look like tyros!  Keep the faith and value the quality college
education our players are getting, so when their NFL days are over, they
can have something to fall back on. ;-)

Everything should be copacetic for the last 3 games. Joe is sanquine that
we have put most of the kerfuffles behind us! Apparently, he has not
been persnickety enough about the plethora of small mistakes along the
O-line, but those are lissome in comparison to the receiver's woes.  I
am personally thankful to the man for such an erudite statement.  Now
if the players are sedulous, we should get past this situation in which
the players look like tyros!  Keep the faith and value the quality college
education our players are getting, so when their NFL days are over, they
can have something to fall back on. ;-)

Defina, Anthony F. wrote:

>I really don't think we will be straying from Joe's main vision with the next
coach (or the one after that, if it is within a few years).
>
>We haven't compromised the overall vision for the althetic department and have
been very successful in everything excpet men's basketball and (the last few
years) football (and men's basketball may be on the upswing).
>
>And, I am convinced that not a lot needs to be changed, actually.  There are
things that Joe does that annoy all of us (more for some than others) but they
are not completely out of the realm of what even the currently winningest
coaches do.  With little change (other than just people dynamics), we will be
back on top.
>
>
>
I'm not sure we can compare the the two programs.  The FB program has
been a winning (money-making) tradition whereas the BB team was an
also-ran, and usually a joke we kept sequestered.  There is a far
greater chance of returning to prominence with some change in the FB
program, and I doubt our BB team ever becomes a perennial powerhouse.
Still, I do hope that the FB program does't lose that which made us special.

OK, that said, let's have some fun with the current Sagarin ratings (and
yes, Kevin, I understand they are a work in progress, as are all the
computer models, which is why thy should have zero bearing on anything
-- and hardly football).

Currently, the BCS formula has mighty Penn State at 109th...trailing the
University OF Pennsylvania at 108th!  According to Sagarin, PSU is 84th
(I would have placed us between 80-85, so I got that one right) and Penn
slinks in at 97.  If we played Penn AT Penn, it's a pick-em!

We rank behind:  Harvard, William & Mary, 'Nova, Delaware, Pitt, CT,
Cal-Poly (Cal-Poly??), and....Indy!  OK, add to that James Madison, New
Hampshire, Florida Atlantic, and Syracuse.

We are better than Rutgers, Maine, and TOLEDO!!  Look how far we've come
in a few short years...we'd be favored over the team that whupped up on
us just a few years back.

Now, Jeff has USC and Cal playing for the marbles.  For whatever reason,
he thinks the Pac-10 is special.  He says Cal has played the #4 schedule
in the country.   This schedule includes New Mexico State and Air force
(both 3-5) along with the rest of the Pac-10.  Of course, Iowa getting
blown to pieces by AS early on skewed everything.

Yes, they are just numbers, but pretty frightening to see Penn State get
mangled by the computers.  FWIW, if PSU played Penn inside the Palestra
and they stuffed it with 100,000 UP alumni and not one Penn State fan
attending (and our wonderful Big Ten refs on hand to make certain all
the big calls go Penn's way), we'd still beat them 44-3.  Or worse.  But
for now, the computers say otherwise.

Old D