WRLLUmpires : Messages : 7455-7484 of 7694

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaXVk5GBx-s

This video grabbed me even more when it came out.

Rita

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Frese <JeffFrese.Umpire@...> wrote:
>
> Most of us were aware of this shortly after it occurred and I consider it a
> great moment in sportsmanship.  Don't criticize the umpire for the watch,
> the lack of working the slot or the rulebook - just enjoy this dramatic
> version of a real event.
>
> http://www.responsibilityproject.com/films/player/the-home-run/
>

#7483

From: "R Boyd" <rcboyd0560@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

soareagle60

Offline

Loved "Animal House"!!!

#7482

From: "telleson" <telleson@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

telleson

Offline

Thanks Regina. Good points.

I'll be the first to say not all kids can work by themselves. Heck, most in my
program can't, yet. But I have a lot that can.

And I know that my program is the expection to the rule. I'm lucky enough to
have 10 JUTS grads. I'm guessing most locals don't have Junior Umpires like I
do. And I'm sure they don't back East, from where this rule eminated.

But I'm not going to roll over on this one. As you said "Little League IS for
the KIDS, not the adults." The more kids get to participate, and be responsible,
the better. And part of handing responsiblity is working by yourself, without
baby sitters.

So yeah, I am passtionate about this. Our Junior Umpire program is the only
reason I'm still volunteering. It's MY team.

Again, how do I look a 15 year kid in the eye, and tell him he needs adult
supervison? He's gone through JUTS, done Majors dishes solo for two years, and
worked Division games with Chris Rutz this year. His rules knowledge is solid
(Grandpa was a MLB umpire), he's lineman on the football team, and has the
respect of everyone in our league. NOW he's not good enough to work alone.

Kyle

p.s. You need to watch "Animal House" for the German reference.

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "R Boyd" <rcboyd0560@...> wrote:
>
> Kyle,
> You're really passionate about this rule change and so are many others, but
Will is right.  Backing off is not giving up.  However, you're losing sight of
the "big picture."  Just because you feel your kids are up and running and can
deal with antagonism, doesn't mean ALL kids are.  You are right in feeling that
a "bunch of lawyers" came up with this rule, but Little League IS for the KIDS, 
not the adults.  If I didn't know any better, many are sounding like a lot of
the "grown up" coaches/managers out there who give umpires a hard time.  The
rule has been published and I am sure that nationwide, Little League Districts
will be disseminating this information down to their respective leagues to work
on the changes that ARE going to take place.  Whining and sniveling about this
rule change until the cows come home is not helping the situation - perhaps
there is a better solution?  Of course there is!  Many of you don't know me and
after this posting, many of you are going to be ticked off at me and that's okay
- we're all entitled to our opinion - there is a time and a place for
everything.  Many leagues DO NOT have the luxury of having Junior Umpires NOR
the luxury of having volunteer umpires; we deal with umpire shortages every
year.  Many adults are intimidated with becoming an umpire (can't imagine why) -
it's easier to gripe on the other side of the fence because they're not held
accountable for any decisions!!  If anyone has a better idea to monitor games
and allow Junior Umpires and "Junior" coaches be by themselves - then more
suggestions and ideas are needed.  Complaining without a solution is easy -
coming up with a reasonable solution is the hard part.
>
> P.S.  The Germans didn't invade Pearl Harbor.  The Japanese Imperial Army did.
>
> Regina
> Stepping Up to the Plate (and ready to get shredded)
> WA D1
>

#7481

From: Will Bumgardner <heyblue01@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:06 pm
Subject: Re: Re: It is official

will_bumgardner

Offline

Kyle, I'm not saying give up. Keep talking to WR and WP and try to get them to see the other side. What I'm talking about is things like having the 3B coach be the "UIC". So, unless it changes, you're going to have to have an adult on every game.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2009, at 7:31 AM, "telleson" <telleson@...> wrote:

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, Will Bumgardner <heyblue01@...> wrote:
>
> Kyle, unless WP changes the rule, you're stuck with it. Quit trying to circumvent the rule.
>

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! "

Will, I'm not going to circumvent the rule. I'm just trying to get it changed/modified, before it gets accepted as gospel. But if everyone rolls over at takes it, we're going to be stuck with the next dopey mandate that rolls down the pike.

Look, if an adult has to be there to physically protect the child umpire, what's next? Some of the managers are pretty big dudes. Do I need to pack my Sig Sauer on the field? How 'bout my .32 backup in my shinguard?

Sometimes Williamsport needs to hear from us. They'll pass things without thinking them all the way through (white bat), or asking the population. If we, us folks on this list, don't stand up for what we know is right, then who will? Next it will be no child umpires, because they'll be in harms way. Then what? No more kid base coaches, because someone got hit? No more batters, heck, that's pretty dangerous too. Where does this end?

IMO, it ends here.

Now I do understand that most of you are still dreaming about Williamsport, and don't want to rock the boat. That's fine. But somebody's got to stand up to this one. So I'm fine with straping on my platinum and titanium Shock Doctor, and taking one for the team. WP and all the Regionals have heard my voice, in no uncertain terms. My invitation to umpire at those levels, I'm sure, has been permanantly revoked.

We don't have a UIC in Williamsport. No one to act as a lightening rod for us. Just lawyers. It's up to us now. "'cause when the going gets tough........................."

Who's with me?

#7480

From: "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:58 pm
Subject: RE: Re: It is official

frankfijr

Offline

Hi fellow WA umpire Regina –

I agree, we shouldn’t just whine. I sent the following to WP and WR:

I understand the new rules are meant to address liability issues. As one possible alternative or option to the rule, could this be addressed by designating a reliable adult who is at the game but not on the field, a Board Member or parent volunteer, to officially supervise the Junior umps? This designated adult could also make decisions on non-playing rules, such as when a field is unplayable or when it is too dark to continue. After all, we don’t require coaches to actually stand on the field and play with the players; supervision from the dugout is deemed sufficient for 7-12 year old children. Why can’t the same be true for supervising teenage umpires? We (and many other leagues, I am sure) have a good supply of parents and Board members who don’t have the time to become trained umpires, but who could act as “umpire supervisors” during games after some instruction on their duties. Such a solution would allow us to continue with our great Junior Umpire program while at the same time providing an extra level of adult oversight for each game.

While I don’t expect to get a positive response (or any response at all for that matter), I couldn’t very well complain about the new rule if I wasn’t willing to suggest an alternative.

And, I didn’t see anything in your mail that would make me or anyone else want to shred you! Your points are well taken.

Thanks,

Frank

WA D9, on the “Eastside” of the Seattle metro area

PS The “Pearl Harbor” reference Kyle makes is from the file “Animal House”. John Belushi switches the Germans for the Japanese. The clip from the film with him making that speech is played before the bottom of the 9^th at Safeco Field when the Mariners are behind.

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of R Boyd
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:40 AM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

Kyle,
You're really passionate about this rule change and so are many others, but Will is right. Backing off is not giving up. However, you're losing sight of the "big picture." Just because you feel your kids are up and running and can deal with antagonism, doesn't mean ALL kids are. You are right in feeling that a "bunch of lawyers" came up with this rule, but Little League IS for the KIDS, not the adults. If I didn't know any better, many are sounding like a lot of the "grown up" coaches/managers out there who give umpires a hard time. The rule has been published and I am sure that nationwide, Little League Districts will be disseminating this information down to their respective leagues to work on the changes that ARE going to take place. Whining and sniveling about this rule change until the cows come home is not helping the situation - perhaps there is a better solution? Of course there is! Many of you don't know me and after this posting, many of you are going to be ticked off at me and that's okay - we're all entitled to our opinion - there is a time and a place for everything. Many leagues DO NOT have the luxury of having Junior Umpires NOR the luxury of having volunteer umpires; we deal with umpire shortages every year. Many adults are intimidated with becoming an umpire (can't imagine why) - it's easier to gripe on the other side of the fence because they're not held accountable for any decisions!! If anyone has a better idea to monitor games and allow Junior Umpires and "Junior" coaches be by themselves - then more suggestions and ideas are needed. Complaining without a solution is easy - coming up with a reasonable solution is the hard part.

P.S. The Germans didn't invade Pearl Harbor. The Japanese Imperial Army did.

Regina
Stepping Up to the Plate (and ready to get shredded)
WA D1

#7479

From: "R Boyd" <rcboyd0560@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

soareagle60

Offline

Kyle,
You're really passionate about this rule change and so are many others, but Will
is right.  Backing off is not giving up.  However, you're losing sight of the
"big picture."  Just because you feel your kids are up and running and can deal
with antagonism, doesn't mean ALL kids are.  You are right in feeling that a
"bunch of lawyers" came up with this rule, but Little League IS for the KIDS, 
not the adults.  If I didn't know any better, many are sounding like a lot of
the "grown up" coaches/managers out there who give umpires a hard time.  The
rule has been published and I am sure that nationwide, Little League Districts
will be disseminating this information down to their respective leagues to work
on the changes that ARE going to take place.  Whining and sniveling about this
rule change until the cows come home is not helping the situation - perhaps
there is a better solution?  Of course there is!  Many of you don't know me and
after this posting, many of you are going to be ticked off at me and that's okay
- we're all entitled to our opinion - there is a time and a place for
everything.  Many leagues DO NOT have the luxury of having Junior Umpires NOR
the luxury of having volunteer umpires; we deal with umpire shortages every
year.  Many adults are intimidated with becoming an umpire (can't imagine why) -
it's easier to gripe on the other side of the fence because they're not held
accountable for any decisions!!  If anyone has a better idea to monitor games
and allow Junior Umpires and "Junior" coaches be by themselves - then more
suggestions and ideas are needed.  Complaining without a solution is easy -
coming up with a reasonable solution is the hard part.

P.S.  The Germans didn't invade Pearl Harbor.  The Japanese Imperial Army did.

Regina
Stepping Up to the Plate (and ready to get shredded)
WA D1

#7478

From: "telleson" <telleson@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:31 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

telleson

Offline

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, Will Bumgardner <heyblue01@...> wrote:
>
> Kyle, unless WP changes the rule, you're stuck with it. Quit trying to
circumvent the rule.
>

"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over
when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! "

Will, I'm not going to circumvent the rule. I'm just trying to get it
changed/modified, before it gets accepted as gospel. But if everyone rolls over
at takes it, we're going to be stuck with the next dopey mandate that rolls down
the pike.

Look, if an adult has to be there to physically protect the child umpire, what's
next? Some of the managers are pretty big dudes.  Do I need to pack my Sig Sauer
on the field? How 'bout my .32 backup in my shinguard?

Sometimes Williamsport needs to hear from us. They'll pass things without
thinking them all the way through (white bat), or asking the population. If we,
us folks on this list, don't stand up for what we know is right, then who will?
Next it will be no child umpires, because they'll be in harms way. Then what? No
more kid base coaches, because someone got hit? No more batters, heck, that's
pretty dangerous too. Where does this end?

IMO, it ends here.

Now I do understand that most of you are still dreaming about Williamsport, and
don't want to rock the boat. That's fine. But somebody's got to stand up to this
one. So I'm fine with straping on my platinum and titanium Shock Doctor, and
taking one for the team. WP and all the Regionals have heard my voice, in no
uncertain terms. My invitation to umpire at those levels, I'm sure, has been
permanantly revoked.

We don't have a UIC in Williamsport. No one to act as a lightening rod for us.
Just lawyers. It's up to us now. "'cause when the going gets
tough........................."

Who's with me?

#7477

From: "R Boyd" <rcboyd0560@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

soareagle60

Offline

Thank you, Barry.

Regina Boyd
SFC (Ret)
US Army

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, Andy Millon <amillon@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >IN GRATITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or
> >celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!
> >
> >I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and
> >service. (You know who you are)
> >
> >I would appreciate it if all of us, take time today to thank and
> >applaud our soldiers and veterans that serve or have served in the
> >U.S. military.  We owe each and every one of them a tremendous debt
> >of gratitude.  They have left their loved ones, taken up arms, and
> >put their lives on the line to protect our freedom and this wonderfull
country.
> >
> >The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say
> >"Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so
much.
> >
> >Barry Silverman
> >CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA
>
> In case some of you haven't seen this.....   http://thankyourmilitary.org/
>
> Andy Millon
> LCDR USNR(R)
>

#7476

From: Andy Millon <amillon@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:21 am
Subject: Re: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

amillon05

Offline

IN GRATITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You know who you are)

I would appreciate it if all of us, take time today to thank and applaud our soldiers and veterans that serve or have served in the U.S. military. We owe each and every one of them a tremendous debt of gratitude. They have left their loved ones, taken up arms, and put their lives on the line to protect our freedom and this wonderfull country.

The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.

Barry Silverman
CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA

In case some of you haven't seen this..... http://thankyourmilitary.org/

Andy Millon
LCDR USNR(R)

#7475

From: "lou_d43" <lou90606@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:17 am
Subject: Re: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

lou_d43

Offline

From a Retired Marine 1972-1992
Thanks
It was a honor and a privilege to serve my country.
Prey for the troops and lets bring them home very soon.
Lou

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, Gary Bonetti <beatla@...> wrote:
>
> I have always had much admiration and respect to all who have served this
great country. I pray every night for the soldier sleeping in a fox hole so we
can all have a warm and peaceful night.
>
> Gary B
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "olsaltusa1@..." <olsaltusa1@...>
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 2:52:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!
>
>  
> Barry,
>
> From an old Navy Retiree, 3 tours in Vietnam, participant in the Iran Hostage
Crisis - Nov 79 along with the first Gulf War and of course the Cold War your
comments are very much appreciated.  I applaud all those Vets that have
sacrificed so much along with the current crop of young men and women in our
Armed Forces today that make our lives so rich.
>
> Greg Rogers
> US Navy Retired (1971-1991) 
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: barrys@plasticorp. com
> To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 2:38 pm
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic....... . TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!
>
>
>
>
>
> IN GRATITUDE!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!
>  
> Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any
great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!
>  
> I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You
know who you are)
>  
> I would appreciate it if all of us, take time today to thank and applaud our
soldiers and veterans that serve or have served in the U.S. military.  We owe
each and every one of them a tremendous debt of gratitude.  They have left
their loved ones, taken up arms, and put their lives on the line to protect our
freedom and this wonderfull country.
>  
> The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank
You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.
>  
> Barry Silverman
> CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@ hotmail.com]
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:47 PM
> >To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> >Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> >
> > 
> >It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons,
they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it
is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don't like it, I can
protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time
should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules
and make the best of it. That's the way it works in the world - the guys who run
the company get to make the rules.
> >But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing
a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly unfair to the
child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so
in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING
IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I
was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for
decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps
to work alone, fine, but don't cast it as being a matter of fairness to
"children".
> >(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument
without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when
making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone
representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by calling
them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players?
Children?)
> >- Frank
> >WA D9
> >From:WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:WRLLUmpires @yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
> >To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> >Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > 
> >I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the
issue.
> >This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just
step up and volunteer.
> >Tony
> >D55 Umpire
> >
> >--- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@ .>
wrote:
> >>
> >> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> >> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> >> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> >> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> >> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> >> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> >> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> >> of the gods of Williamsport.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - Frank Fite
> >>
> >> UIC, Issaquah Little League
> >>
> >> WA D9
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com]
On
> >> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> >> To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> >> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> An article from UMPNEWS.com
> >>
> >> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> >> Umpires
> >>
> >> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
> >>
> >> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> >> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base
at
> >> the local league.
> >>
> >> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> >> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> >> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> >> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
> >>
> >> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> >> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> >> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> >> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> >> care.
> >>
> >> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> >> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> >> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> >> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> >> potentially dangerous position legally.
> >>
> >> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> >> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> >> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> >> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> >> the child umpires in such a game.
> >>
> >> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> >> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> >> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
> >>
> >> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> >> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> >> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
> >>
> >> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> >> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
> >>
> >> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> >> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> >> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> >> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> >> for that game.
> >>
> >> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> >> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> >> care, in legal danger.
> >>
> >> END
> >>
> >> --- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups.
com> ,
> >> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> >> planet. Nice.
> >> >
> >> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> >> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >> >
> >> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> >> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> >> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> >> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the
parents
> >> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult
babysitters,
> >> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >> >
> >> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle
games
> >> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> >> the curb.
> >> >
> >> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> >> heavy hand of WP.
> >> >
> >> > Kyle
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups.
com>
> >> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> >> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> >> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still
not
> >> 100%.
> >> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> >> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> >> parents and League Board members.
> >> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> >> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> >> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> >> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> >> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> >> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> >> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> >> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> >> not be your child but they are someones child.
> >> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> >> it.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> >> <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr."
<frankfite@>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> >> the new
> >> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> >> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> >> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> >> respond,
> >> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> >> issues
> >> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> >> I
> >> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> >> playing
> >> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> >> sufficient for
> >> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> >> teenagers?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > - Frank
> >> > > >
> >> > > > WA D9
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> >> <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups.
com
> >> <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
> >> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> >> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups.
com>
> >>
> >> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> >> independantly.
> >> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> >> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every
game.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> >> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> >> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> >> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> >> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> >> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> >> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> >> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> >> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> >> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> >> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> >> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> >> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> >> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> >> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> >> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> >> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> >> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> >> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> >> > > >
> >> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> >> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> >> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> >> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> >> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> >> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> >> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> >> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> >> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > JMHO,
> >> > > > Andy
> >> > > > CA31
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

#7474

From: "telleson" <telleson@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:58 am
Subject: Re: It is official

telleson

Offline

I hit every Regional boss, Dan Kirby, and the LL PR guy. All found here:

www.littleleague.org/Learn_More/About_Our_Organization/contacts.htm

Kirby, and Jim at WR were the only one's I've traded emails with. Jim's a good
guy, and I understand his leaning on the party line. Kirby kept using the word
"children", which really rubbed my the wrong way. But he's the lawyer, and
minors are children in his book.

I stayed civil, but fellas, don't look for me umpiring any games on ESPN anytime
soon. :)

Kyle

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, Theodore Gazulis <tgazulis@...> wrote:
>
> Who are you sending stuff to?� I'd be happy to add my annoying two cents.
> �
> TG
> CA - D3
>
>
> --- On Wed, 11/11/09, telleson <telleson@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: telleson <telleson@...>
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 1:52 PM
>
>
> The head folks at WR and WP are tired of hearing from me. I hope other voices
are being heard by the them on this matter.
>
> Kyle
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@> wrote:
> >
> > This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
> >
> >�
> >
> > It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> > supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> > officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> > Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> > to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> > good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> > unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> > of the gods of Williamsport.
> >
> >�
> >
> > - Frank Fite
> >
> > UIC, Issaquah Little League
> >
> > WA D9
> >
> >�
> >
> > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> >
> >�
> >
> >���
> >
> > An article from UMPNEWS.com
> >
> > Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> > Umpires
> >
> > Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
> >
> > Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> > in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> > the local league.
> >
> > It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> > umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> > other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> > reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
> >
> > A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> > parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> > manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> > responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> > care.
> >
> > Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> > benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> > the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> > places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> > potentially dangerous position legally.
> >
> > With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> > responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> > and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> > and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> > the child umpires in such a game.
> >
> > Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> > (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> > other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
> >
> > We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> > (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> > game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
> >
> > These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> > volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
> >
> > Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> > allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> > wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> > provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> > for that game.
> >
> > These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> > coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> > care, in legal danger.
> >
> > END
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> > planet. Nice.
> > >
> > > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> > went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> > >
> > > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> > an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> > mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> > handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> > are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> > call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> > >
> > > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> > by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> > the curb.
> > >
> > > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> > heavy hand of WP.
> > >
> > > Kyle
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> > , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> > old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> > Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> > 100%.
> > > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> > parents and League Board members.
> > > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> > issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> > yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> > not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> > they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> > not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> > it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> > the new
> > > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> > respond,
> > > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> > issues
> > > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> > I
> > > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> > playing
> > > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> > sufficient for
> > > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> > teenagers?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Frank
> > > > >
> > > > > WA D9
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>� [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> > independantly.
> > > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > > >
> > > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > > >
> > > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > > >
> > > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > JMHO,
> > > > > Andy
> > > > > CA31
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

#7473

From: "Ron" <umpron@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:30 am
Subject: Re: "Overruling" an umpire.

umpireronain...

Offline

Looks like my son will be umping games solo,he'll like that

(since I counted on him to work with less experience umpires)..while I am at other fields

Ron Ca.15

----- Original Message -----

From: Will Bumgardner

To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:01 AM

Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] "Overruling" an umpire.

Based on the letter from WP, my guess is that you can only have 1 Jr. umpire on a game.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2009, at 8:55 AM, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@hotmail.com> wrote:

I haven’t see the wording of the rules in the rulebook yet – I don’t think that has been published. I didn’t read the synopses to say that, but until the actual rules come out, I’m just guessing.

If each Junior needs an adult hand-holder, then we’ll drag two parents out of the stands.

- Frank

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Will Bumgardner
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:54 AM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] "Overruling" an umpire.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the rule change that you could have 1 Jr. umpire workin with 1 or more adults?

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2009, at 8:49 AM, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@hotmail.com> wrote:

I agree, in my league we wouldn’t use a game coach to also umpire for many reasons, chief among them that the coach already has a job to do out there.

What will happen in our league in Minors is that a Dad (or Mom) from the stands will be volunteered to be the UIC. We’ll have two trained Junior Umpires in uniform working the plate and 1^st and 2^nd, and one adult in shorts and a T-shirt umping 3^rd when he (or she) isn’t chatting on a cell phone. That arrangement will comply with the rule, and it is the best we can do. In Little League, an “umpire” is simply someone designated by the League President as such. Unless WP changes the rules, there is no requirement for any training for someone to be an umpire, so it is perfectly OK for us to pair Juniors with random adults (and yes, we have almost all parents fill out the volunteer form).

The alternative to pairing parents from the stands with Juniors in our Minors is to have those same unwilling parent volunteers out there by themselves – that is far worse. At least this way, I’ll have someone behind the plate that knows how to call balls and strikes. For Majors, most of the time we already have a trained adult umpire paired with a single Junior, with either behind the plate.

- Frank Fite

WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee Batterman
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 8:38 AM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] "Overruling" an umpire.

I'm answering these as I read them, so forgive the redundancy.

If... IF IF IF IF IF... by some 'out of the world' decision allowed the 3rd base coach to perform the duties of "Designated UIC" (i'm going out on a limb here and say that will never happen), he WILL NOT be participating as a FIELD UMPIRE. Therefore he WILL NOT be making any calls on the fields that will conflict with those of the Plate Youth umpire. Therefore rule 9.04 will not be invoked. Therefore he WILL NOT be making any choice between 2 calls. IT WON'T HAPPEN!

Now I know someone is going to say, "he's already at 3rd base, he could make calls at that base only." Forgetting the fact that a coach is restricted to the coacher's box, and can't get into position to make a call at 3rd. anyway, what about 2nd.? The Youth Umpire can run out to 2nd. for a call, but not take care of 3rd.? Give me a break.

You know what... I'm going with the "Restrict the coach to the box" approach. I'm also going to suggest that the Youth restrict his talking (tell him to shut up or be ejected). Now the Plate umpire can eject the coach for violating a direct order. Get a new coach at 3rd, who presumably becomes the NEW UIC. But wait a minute... you can't replace an umpire during the game, so now we have to suspend the game because there is no "Adult Designated UIC". But hold on... the Youth Umpire can't make the suspension decision, he needs an adult UIC to do that. So both teams of 14, 5 coach/managers (we dumped one), 1 scorekeeper, 1 pitch count official, 1 on duty board member, 3 snack shack workers, 3 grounds keepers, the Youth Umpire's Mom (she there to take him home), all must wait for eternity because we designated the 3rd base coach as UIC????? WOW! ! ! ! ! !

Does anyone see a relationship between my scenario and this discussion?

BATMAN

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Steinmetz"
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] "Overruling" an umpire.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:41:14 -0800

Andy ... I (we ... I am sure) agree with you TOTALLY and fully understand the rule. We here are all umpires and that is how we work.

That said ...

You put a coach on third, designate him as an umpire and have a solo junior umpire working the dish. A call at third needs to be made and coach UIC says HIS runner is safe but the solo umpire (who through 5 innings was working solo ... or so he thought) says out. Now coach UIC says 9.04(c) allows him to choose one call over the other and he chooses his call."

Words do have meaning, and in this case, by rule, his has the only allowable meaning. The call will be safe, and a protest of that calll will result with safe. The board "will" read the rule book the same way a coach will and designating one coach UIC makes him and umpire. The runner is safe.

--

Be Yourself @ mail.com
Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
Get a Free Account at www.mail.com!

#7472

From: Gary Bonetti <beatla@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:09 am
Subject: Re: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

garybonetti

Offline

I have always had much admiration and respect to all who have served this great country. I pray every night for the soldier sleeping in a fox hole so we can all have a warm and peaceful night.

Gary B

From: "olsaltusa1@..." <olsaltusa1@...>
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 11, 2009 2:52:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

Barry,

From an old Navy Retiree, 3 tours in Vietnam, participant in the Iran Hostage Crisis - Nov 79 along with the first Gulf War and of course the Cold War your comments are very much appreciated. I applaud all those Vets that have sacrificed so much along with the current crop of young men and women in our Armed Forces today that make our lives so rich.

Greg Rogers

US Navy Retired (1971-1991)

-----Original Message-----
From: barrys@plasticorp. com
To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 2:38 pm
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic....... . TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

IN GRATITUDE!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You know who you are)

I would appreciate it if all of us, take time today to thank and applaud our soldiers and veterans that serve or have served in the U.S. military. We owe each and every one of them a tremendous debt of gratitude. They have left their loved ones, taken up arms, and put their lives on the line to protect our freedom and this wonderfull country.

The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.

Barry Silverman

CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@ hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:47 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don't like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That's the way it works in the world - the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly unfair to the child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don't cast it as being a matter of fairness to "children".

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by calling them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:WRLLUmpires @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@.. .> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:WRLLUmpires% 40yahoogroups. com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7471

From: Theodore Gazulis <tgazulis@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:32 pm
Subject: Re: Re: It is official

tg_d3

Offline

Who are you sending stuff to? I'd be happy to add my annoying two cents.

TG
CA - D3

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, telleson <telleson@...> wrote:

From: telleson <telleson@...>
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 1:52 PM

The head folks at WR and WP are tired of hearing from me. I hope other voices are being heard by the them on this matter.

Kyle

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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#7470

From: Theodore Gazulis <tgazulis@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:31 pm
Subject: RE: Re: It is official

tg_d3

Offline

Frank's comments below capture my thoughts completely. If LL now wants an adult on the field, just say so - "Effective today, there must be an adult umpire on the field for every game sanctioned by LL." Simple, clean, direct. Hey, it's their ball and they can make up the rules. But the press release comes off as disingenuous, insincere and smarmy when it tries to cast this change as LL being the protector of the children.

TG
CA - D3

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Franklin Fite, Jr. <frankfite@...> wrote:

From: Franklin Fite, Jr. <frankfite@...>
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 1:47 PM

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don’t like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That’s the way it works in the world – the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is “grossly unfair to the child”, amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results – AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED – for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don’t cast it as being a matter of fairness to “children”.

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like “obvious” and “always” when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn’t choose to demean teenagers by calling them “children”. Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7469

From: Theodore Gazulis <tgazulis@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:18 pm
Subject: RE: Re: It is official

tg_d3

Offline

When my children were "children" and working lots of games, I was, apparently, grossly unfair to them. Imagine the loss of self esteem this must have caused them. I'm lucky they don't sue me for child abuse. If they need years of therapy they'll probably insist that I pay.

This is a G rated list, so I won't say what I am thinking. I'm glad I'm off the local BOD. Good luck staffing games.

TG
CA-D3

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Franklin Fite, Jr. <frankfite@...> wrote:

From: Franklin Fite, Jr. <frankfite@...>
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 1:04 PM

This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so…

It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are officially guilty of being “grossly unfair” to children in the eyes of Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair to your “child” umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the good of the game and the kids in your community. I’ve only been grossly unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I’ll just beg forgiveness of the gods of Williamsport.

- Frank Fite
UIC, Issaquah Little League
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

An article from UMPNEWS.com

Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and Umpires

Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations

Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches, in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at the local league.

It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.

A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her care.

Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it places the adults – who would allow such a situation to occur – in a potentially dangerous position legally.

With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to the child umpires in such a game.

Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.

We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.

These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.

Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game, provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief for that game.

These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their care, in legal danger.

END

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "telleson" <telleson@...> wrote:
>
> So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the planet. Nice.
>
> I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
>
> I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters, call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
>
> So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to the curb.
>
> Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too heavy hand of WP.
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> >
> > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not 100%.
> > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff, parents and League Board members.
> > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may not be your child but they are someones child.
> > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around it.
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to the new
> > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will respond,
> > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability issues
> > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field. I
> > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the playing
> > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is sufficient for
> > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for teenagers?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Frank
> > >
> > > WA D9
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working independantly.
> > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > >
> > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > >
> > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > >
> > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > >
> > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > >
> > > JMHO,
> > > Andy
> > > CA31
> > >
> >
>

#7468

From: barrys@...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:57 pm
Subject: RE: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

bdsil47

Offline

Greg,

My gratitude and appreciation. Thank You Greg.

Barry

-----Original Message-----
From: olsaltusa1@... [mailto:olsaltusa1@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:52 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

Barry,

From an old Navy Retiree, 3 tours in Vietnam, participant in the Iran Hostage Crisis - Nov 79 along with the first Gulf War and of course the Cold War your comments are very much appreciated. I applaud all those Vets that have sacrificed so much along with the current crop of young men and women in our Armed Forces today that make our lives so rich.

Greg Rogers

US Navy Retired (1971-1991)

-----Original Message-----
From: barrys@plasticorp.com
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 2:38 pm
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

IN GRATITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You know who you are)

I would appreciate it if all of us, take time today to thank and applaud our soldiers and veterans that serve or have served in the U.S. military. We owe each and every one of them a tremendous debt of gratitude. They have left their loved ones, taken up arms, and put their lives on the line to protect our freedom and this wonderfull country.

The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.

Barry Silverman

CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:47 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don't like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That's the way it works in the world - the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly unfair to the child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don't cast it as being a matter of fairness to "children".

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by calling them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7467

From: barrys@...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:57 pm
Subject: RE: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

bdsil47

Offline

Please send by gratitude and appreciation to you dad, Frank. Thank You!

Barry

-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:43 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

Yes - to my Dad, who served in the USAF for 23 years and who is a veteran of the wars in Korean and Vietnam, I say "thank you for your service and thank you for giving me my first umpiring assignment!".

- Frank

WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barrys@plasticorp.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:38 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

IN GRATITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You know who you are)

I would appreciate it if all of us, take time today to thank and applaud our soldiers and veterans that serve or have served in the U.S. military. We owe each and every one of them a tremendous debt of gratitude. They have left their loved ones, taken up arms, and put their lives on the line to protect our freedom and this wonderfull country.

The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.

Barry Silverman

CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:47 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don't like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That's the way it works in the world - the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly unfair to the child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don't cast it as being a matter of fairness to "children".

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by calling them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7466

From: olsaltusa1@...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:52 pm
Subject: Re: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

olsaltusa1

Offline

Barry,

Greg Rogers

US Navy Retired (1971-1991)

-----Original Message-----
From: barrys@...
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 2:38 pm
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

IN GRATITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You know who you are)

The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.

Barry Silverman

CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:47 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don't like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That's the way it works in the world - the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly unfair to the child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don't cast it as being a matter of fairness to "children".

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by calling them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7465

From: "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:43 pm
Subject: RE: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

frankfijr

Offline

Yes – to my Dad, who served in the USAF for 23 years and who is a veteran of the wars in Korean and Vietnam, I say “thank you for your service and thank you for giving me my first umpiring assignment!”.

- Frank

WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barrys@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:38 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

IN GRATITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You know who you are)

The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.

Barry Silverman

CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:47 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don't like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That's the way it works in the world - the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly unfair to the child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don't cast it as being a matter of fairness to "children".

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by calling them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7464

From: barrys@...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:38 pm
Subject: change the topic........ TODAY IS VETERANS DAY!

bdsil47

Offline

IN GRATITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Today is Veteran's Day, a holiday that is not appreciated or celebrated to any great extent in this country - BUT IT SHOULD BE!

I want to personally thank all Veteran's for their sacrifice and service. (You know who you are)

The next time you see a soldier in uniform or a veteran, simply say "Thank You." It's the least we can do for these people who have given so much.

Barry Silverman

CA D62 Huntington Beach, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Franklin Fite, Jr. [mailto:frankfite@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:47 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don't like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That's the way it works in the world - the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly unfair to the child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don't cast it as being a matter of fairness to "children".

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by calling them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7463

From: "telleson" <telleson@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:16 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

telleson

Offline

I see two things happening here. One is the legal side of having non-adults
(children in their eyes) in charge of other children. The other is the East
coast folks having no idea how we train our kids on the West coast. They have
short seasons, and play basketball. We play, and train, year round. Do they have
a JUTS program? No. And I'm sure they can't comprehend what we do out here with
our Junior umpires. They would drop a load if they came to my park, and saw a
four man crew of 12 year olds sharply hitting their rotations. I understand that
they can't wrap their brains around that.

Bottom line: They have no clue, and simply don't care. That's been the
underlying theme on every respones that I've got from them.

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other
> reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not
> agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I
> don't like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do
> something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect
> it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That's the way it
> works in the world - the guys who run the company get to make the rules.
>
>
>
> But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that
> allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is "grossly
> unfair to the child", amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us
> who have done so in good faith and with good results - AND WITH NO ONE FROM
> LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED - for years. I umped my first
> Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping
> games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to
> cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don't cast
> it as being a matter of fairness to "children".
>
>
>
> (Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument
> without the need to resort to using terms like "obvious" and "always" when
> making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have
> someone representing Little League who doesn't choose to demean teenagers by
> calling them "children". Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big
> League players? Children?)
>
>
>
> - Frank
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the
> issue.
> This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just
> step up and volunteer.
> Tony
> D55 Umpire
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@> wrote:
> >
> > This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> > supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> > officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> > Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> > to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> > good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> > unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg
> forgiveness
> > of the gods of Williamsport.
> >
> >
> >
> > - Frank Fite
> >
> > UIC, Issaquah Little League
> >
> > WA D9
> >
> >
> >
> > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On
> > Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > An article from UMPNEWS.com
> >
> > Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> > Umpires
> >
> > Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
> >
> > Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or
> coaches,
> > in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base
> at
> > the local league.
> >
> > It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> > umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge
> of
> > other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball.
> The
> > reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
> >
> > A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> > parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> > manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> > responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> > care.
> >
> > Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> > benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> > the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> > places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> > potentially dangerous position legally.
> >
> > With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> > responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> > and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult
> managers
> > and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair
> to
> > the child umpires in such a game.
> >
> > Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> > (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> > other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
> >
> > We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> > (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> > game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
> >
> > These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> > volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> >
> > Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> > allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> > wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a
> game,
> > provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the
> umpire-in-chief
> > for that game.
> >
> > These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> > coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> > care, in legal danger.
> >
> > END
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> > planet. Nice.
> > >
> > > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> > went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> > >
> > > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is
> not
> > an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> > mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> > handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the
> parents
> > are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult
> babysitters,
> > call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> > >
> > > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle
> games
> > by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked
> to
> > the curb.
> > >
> > > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> > heavy hand of WP.
> > >
> > > Kyle
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> > , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> > old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> > Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still
> not
> > 100%.
> > > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> > parents and League Board members.
> > > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> > issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably
> find
> > yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> > not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> > they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> > not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt
> around
> > it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> > the new
> > > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an
> adult
> > > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority
> to
> > > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> > respond,
> > > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> > issues
> > > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the
> field.
> > I
> > > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> > playing
> > > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> > sufficient for
> > > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> > teenagers?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Frank
> > > > >
> > > > > WA D9
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> > independantly.
> > > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every
> game.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
>
> > > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > > >
> > > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
>
> > > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > > >
> > > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add
> an
> > > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires
> it
> > > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > > >
> > > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
>
> > > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > JMHO,
> > > > > Andy
> > > > > CA31
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7462

From: "telleson" <telleson@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:52 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

telleson

Offline

The head folks at WR and WP are tired of hearing from me. I hope other voices
are being heard by the them on this matter.

Kyle

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7461

From: "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:47 pm
Subject: RE: Re: It is official

frankfijr

Offline

It is one thing for Little League to say that for liability or other reasons, they are requiring an adult to be on the field umpiring. I may not agree, but it is their organization, and they get to make the rules. If I don’t like it, I can protest (which I have) and choose to either do something else with my time should my protest be to no avail (as I suspect it will) or follow their rules and make the best of it. That’s the way it works in the world – the guys who run the company get to make the rules.

But, for Little League to issue the press release below, saying that allowing a teenager to umpire without an adult on the field is “grossly unfair to the child”, amongst other things, is just insulting to those of us who have done so in good faith and with good results – AND WITH NO ONE FROM LITTLE LEAGUE SAYING IT WAS NOT PERMITTED – for years. I umped my first Little League game in 1972. I was 13 years old. I have seen teenagers umping games alone in Little League for decades. If Little League now wants to cover its butt and not allow Junior umps to work alone, fine, but don’t cast it as being a matter of fairness to “children”.

(Also, they should hire a media relations guy who can make a cogent argument without the need to resort to using terms like “obvious” and “always” when making non-obvious and untrue statements. It would also be nice to have someone representing Little League who doesn’t choose to demean teenagers by calling them “children”. Is that what Little League calls Junior and Big League players? Children?)

- Frank
WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7460

From: "anthonystockfish" <t3dfish@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:20 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

anthonystock...

Offline

I agree Frank. It is sad. Howeve, I can see both sides of the coin on the issue.
This wouldn't really be an issue if the parents of the players would just step
up and volunteer.
Tony
D55 Umpire

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...> wrote:
>
> This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so.
>
>
>
> It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have
> supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are
> officially guilty of being "grossly unfair" to children in the eyes of
> Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair
> to your "child" umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the
> good of the game and the kids in your community. I've only been grossly
> unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I'll just beg forgiveness
> of the gods of Williamsport.
>
>
>
> - Frank Fite
>
> UIC, Issaquah Little League
>
> WA D9
>
>
>
> From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anthonystockfish
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
>
>
>
>
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and
> Umpires
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches,
> in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at
> the local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
> umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
> other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
> reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.
>
> A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
> parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the
> manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal
> responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her
> care.
>
> Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
> benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to
> the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it
> places the adults - who would allow such a situation to occur - in a
> potentially dangerous position legally.
>
> With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
> responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers
> and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers
> and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to
> the child umpires in such a game.
>
> Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches
> (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or
> other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.
>
> We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire
> (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that
> game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.
>
> These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
> volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.
>
> Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
> allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
> wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
> provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief
> for that game.
>
> These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer
> coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their
> care, in legal danger.
>
> END
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "telleson" <telleson@> wrote:
> >
> > So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
> planet. Nice.
> >
> > I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook
> went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
> >
> > I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not
> an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in
> mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've
> handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents
> are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters,
> call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
> >
> > So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games
> by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to
> the curb.
> >
> > Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too
> heavy hand of WP.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
> , "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year
> old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a
> Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not
> 100%.
> > > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff,
> parents and League Board members.
> > > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability
> issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
> yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to
> not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if
> they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may
> not be your child but they are someones child.
> > > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around
> it.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> , "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to
> the new
> > > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
> respond,
> > > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
> issues
> > > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field.
> I
> > > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
> playing
> > > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is
> sufficient for
> > > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
> teenagers?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Frank
> > > >
> > > > WA D9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> > > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WRLLUmpires%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working
> independantly.
> > > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > > >
> > > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > > >
> > > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > > >
> > > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > > >
> > > > JMHO,
> > > > Andy
> > > > CA31
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

#7459

From: "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:04 pm
Subject: RE: Re: It is official

frankfijr

Offline

This has been commented on before, but it still ticks me off, so…

It is sad to know that all of us who run Junior Umpire programs or have supported Junior Umpire programs (such as the guys who run the JUTS) are officially guilty of being “grossly unfair” to children in the eyes of Little League International. In fact, some of you have been grossly unfair to your “child” umpires for years and years: you ought to resign for the good of the game and the kids in your community. I’ve only been grossly unfair to children in Issaquah for a year now, so I’ll just beg forgiveness of the gods of Williamsport.

- Frank Fite

UIC, Issaquah Little League

WA D9

From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of anthonystockfish
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:20 PM
To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official

An article from UMPNEWS.com

Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches and Umpires

Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations

Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches, in order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at the local league.

It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.

A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the manager, coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal responsibilities for the safety and well-being of the children in his/her care.

Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to the child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it places the adults – who would allow such a situation to occur – in a potentially dangerous position legally.

With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers and coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers and coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to the child umpires in such a game.

Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches (age 16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or other activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.

We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire (of any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that game, in the capacity of umpire-in-chief.

These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.

Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game, provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief for that game.

These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer coach or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their care, in legal danger.

END

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "telleson" <telleson@...> wrote:
>
> So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the planet. Nice.
>
> I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook went after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
>
> I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not an issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in mine. I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've handled the workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents are quite happy with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters, call them UICs, and place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
>
> So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games by himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to the curb.
>
> Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too heavy hand of WP.
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> >
> > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year old jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a Jr Ump about a call. The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks. He is still not 100%.
> > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff, parents and League Board members.
> > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability issue, do not think about short cutting the rule.
> > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to not following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD. Well if they are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law. They may not be your child but they are someones child.
> > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around it.
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to the new
> > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will respond,
> > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability issues
> > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field. I
> > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the playing
> > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is sufficient for
> > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for teenagers?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Frank
> > >
> > > WA D9
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working independantly.
> > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > >
> > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > >
> > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > >
> > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > >
> > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > >
> > > JMHO,
> > > Andy
> > > CA31
> > >
> >
>

#7458

From: "telleson" <telleson@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:40 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

telleson

Offline

I know in the eyes of the law the offensive lineman who works Major dishes by
himself for me is a "child", but I'm not going to tell him that. So now I have
to be on the field to protect him. Or better still, some newbie parent will be
his UIC on the field. Swell.

Steve is doing his job as the company mouthpiece, regurgitating what Dan Kirby
has worded for him. They're just covering their backside on what they see as a
liability issue. It's just a shame the actions of a couple of knuckleheads (and
probably inaction of some BoDs) has come to this.

Kyle

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "anthonystockfish" <t3dfish@...> wrote:
>
> An article from UMPNEWS.com
>
> Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches  and
Umpires
>
>
> Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations
>
>
> Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches, in
order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at the
local league.
>
> It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.

Blah, blah, blah

#7457

From: "anthonystockfish" <t3dfish@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:19 pm
Subject: Re: It is official

anthonystock...

Offline

An article from UMPNEWS.com

Little League International Statement: Children as Managers, Coaches  and
Umpires


Steve Barr, Director of Media Relations


Some leagues that have requested to use child umpires, managers or coaches, in
order to develop them as volunteers, and to augment the volunteer base at the
local league.

It has always been the policy of Little League that managers, coaches and
umpires should be adults, because it is unwise to put children in charge of
other children in a competitive activity such as baseball and softball. The
reasons for that policy should be obvious to anyone.

A person designated as a manager, coach or umpire is, in fact, acting as a
parent of sorts on a baseball or softball field. In that capacity, the manager,
coach or umpire has certain leadership as well as legal responsibilities for the
safety and well-being of the children in his/her care.

Placing a child in charge of other children in that capacity, without the
benefit of an adult present and in the same capacity, is grossly unfair to the
child, and to the children and adults they are supervising. Also, it places the
adults � who would allow such a situation to occur � in a potentially dangerous
position legally.

With respect to allowing only children to umpire a game, it means they are
responsible, by rule, for maintaining the discipline of the adult managers and
coaches. Regardless of a league's opinion of its current adult managers and
coaches, anyone can see that such a situation also is grossly unfair to the
child umpires in such a game.

Little League International has developed new rules allowing child coaches (age
16 or 17 only), provided an adult manager is present at the game or other
activity, and provided another adult coach is on the roster.

We also have developed new rules for 2010 that provide for a child umpire (of
any age), but only if an adult umpire is present on the field for that game, in
the capacity of umpire-in-chief.

These changes in the rules still permit the development of children as
volunteers, but require adult support for the obvious reasons noted above.

Also, while the umpire-in-chief is usually the home plate umpire, we are
allowing the designated umpire-in-chief to be a base umpire, if the league
wishes to do so. That would allow a child to be the plate umpire in a game,
provided an adult who is a base umpire is designated as the umpire-in-chief for
that game.

These new rules allow children to gain the experience of being a volunteer coach
or umpire, while not putting those children or the children in their care, in
legal danger.

END

--- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "telleson" <telleson@...> wrote:
>
> So the action of one knucklehead determines the fate for the rest of the
planet. Nice.
>
> I wonder what sort of mandate would have trampled us if this same kook went
after a 13 year old pitcher, instead of a 13 year old umpire?
>
> I understand that most locals don't have a program like I do. This is not an
issue for probably 97% of the leagues out there. But it's a big deal in mine.
I've got around 25 Junior umpires, and three adult regulars. We've handled the
workload just fine for several years. No issues, and the parents are quite happy
with this setup. Now I've got to round up adult babysitters, call them UICs, and
place them on 200 games next year. Perfect.
>
> So someone needs to tell my 15 year old lineman that he can't handle games by
himself anymore. Everything my program is gear toward just got kicked to the
curb.
>
> Again, this should be handled at the local level, and not by the all too heavy
hand of WP.
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "lou_d43" <lou90606@> wrote:
> >
> > I have heard that this rule change has come about because some 44 year old
jerk ( I would use other names but being nice), physically assaulted a Jr Ump
about a call.  The Jr Ump was in hospital for 3 weeks.  He is still not 100%.
> > I can not confirm this, but my source knows what is going on in LL.
> > My question is where the heck were the rest of the coaching staff, parents
and League Board members.
> > He is in jail and should be for a long time.
> > Needless to say, if this was the case or in fact a legal liability issue, do
not think about short cutting the rule.
> > If you short cut it and are a responsible party, you will probably find
yourself named in a lawsuit should anything happen and you were a party to not
following LL Regulations and Rules.
> > As stated in a earlier post, WP refereed to Jr Umps as CHILD.  Well if they
are not 18 years old they are still CHILDREN under the law.  They may not be
your child but they are someones child.
> > Time to start finding ways to comply with the rule and not skirt around it.
> >
> >
> > --- In WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com, "Franklin Fite, Jr." <frankfite@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A few days ago, I emailed WP and WR with a suggested alternative to the
new
> > > adult-only UIC along the lines of what Andy discusses below: an adult
> > > on-site designated to supervise the Junior Umpires, with authority to
> > > suspend play for rain, darkness, etc. I don't know if WP or WR will
respond,
> > > but it would seem to me that such a scheme would cover the liability
issues
> > > while also providing adult supervision to the teenagers on the field. I
> > > pointed out that LL doesn't require coaches to actually stand on the
playing
> > > field during the game, and if supervision from the dugout is sufficient
for
> > > 7-12 year olds, why couldn't something similar be sufficient for
teenagers?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > - Frank
> > >
> > > WA D9
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Andy Millon
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 9:40 AM
> > > To: WRLLUmpires@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [WRLLUmpires] Re: It is official
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >One of the goals of my program is get these guys working independantly.
> > > >Thus, I don't need more adult umpires, just the opposite. The
> > > >ultimate goal, for us, is to have Junior Umpires covering every game.
> > >
> > > IMHO you are left with only two options: (a) submit a waiver request
> > > and/or (b) recruit more adult volunteer umpires.
> > >
> > > For (a), I would suggest you provide both a history of your junior
> > > umpire program as well as a synopsis of your junior umpire training
> > > program. The fact that you are providing EXACTLY what the Little
> > > League program is all about [teaching life-long skills to our youth]
> > > and are very successful at it may be all you need to become the
> > > "prototype" waiver program LL HDQ is probably looking for.
> > >
> > > To mitigate the liability concerns of HDQ, I would suggest you add an
> > > "assigned BOD Member-On-Duty" to your league operations. As I've
> > > seen it applied elsewhere, the "BOD-MOD" serves a similar role as a
> > > Tournament Director. Responsible for overall safety at the game
> > > site, but with no say in game play decisions. Both the umpires on
> > > the field and the BOD-MOD have joint safety responsibility for the
> > > game being played and either can stop a game at any time for safety
> > > reason(s). Neither umpires nor BOD-MOD can overrule the other. The
> > > BOD-MOD can serve as the "adult supervision" of the junior umpires it
> > > appears LL HDQ is seeking with the new rule. Just a
> > > thought. Besides, with your league's physical layout, a single
> > > BOD-MOD can serve for all of your fields at the same time. Might
> > > have to restrict him/her to the balcony though (better view). :-D
> > >
> > > For (b), I would suggest getting started early recruiting adult
> > > volunteer umpires. Using your quality junior umpires to assist is
> > > probably the best way to go. Let them know the real issues and their
> > > only available options. Treat 'em like adults and they will
> > > behave... like adults. :-) I suspect you might be surprised how
> > > many adult volunteers you get if your junior umpires do the
> > > recruiting. Besides, your junior umpires will be the ones providing
> > > the training to your "new" volunteers. Now what's not to like about
> > > that? Especially if you are one of the junior umpires?! ;-)
> > >
> > > JMHO,
> > > Andy
> > > CA31
> > >
> >
>

#7456

From: Alan McCullough <alanmccrn@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: The Dramatic Version of The Softball Homerun

alanmccrn

Offline

Last year my son visited Western Oregon while deciding where to attend college.
The have pics of the player being carried around the bases all over campus. I
don't think they could have bought that kind of publicity.
Last year I did the plate for the LL Western Region Softball Tourny final game.
It's this type of attitude from the ladies that makes me enjoy softball more
than hardball. They know how to play tough and still have fun.

Alan McCullough

Sent from my iPhone

#7455

From: Andy Millon <amillon@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:23 am
Subject: Re: The Dramatic Version of The Softball Homerun

amillon05

Offline

Most of us were aware of this shortly after it occurred and I consider it a great moment in sportsmanship. Don't criticize the umpire for the watch, the lack of working the slot or the rulebook - just enjoy this dramatic version of a real event.

http://www.responsibilityproject.com/films/player/the-home-run/

While this video is a bit "hokey," I appreciate the effort and intent. However, the actual event was captured on video (a parent's cell phone) and the media reporting at the time was considerably more dramatic than this "dramatization." Primarily because of the back-story -- who the individuals were, their teams and their situation.

For the record:
Game 2 of double-header; Western Oregon University vs. Central Washington University. Both schools were leading the conference and the winner of this game would likely become (and did) the conference championship --and go the NCAA DII Regional Tournament (a "first" for either school).

Batter: Sara Tucholsky; WOU senior, part-time starter, career .153 BA.
First Baseman: Mallory Holtman; CWU senior, all-star starter, .419 BA, school & conference all-time home run leader.

Second inning, tie score 0-0, R1 & R2. Sara Tucholsky hit her first ever (in her LIFE) home run over center field fence. In her excitement, Sara missed 1B. She quickly turned to go back and touch it when she fell down yelling in pain [torn ACL].

The actual umpire (incorrect) ruling was that if a substitute runner was inserted, the hit would become a "two run single." The umpires also (incorrectly) ruled that if any offensive player or coach "touched the runner" the runner would be called OUT. We can thank these "un-educated" umpires for creating the extraordinary act of sportsmanship that followed. [ASA/NCAA softball rules are the same as OBR/LL rules regarding injury substitutions].

Mallory Holtman then went to one of the umpires and asked if it was "okay if we carry her around the bases?" These "umpires" could not make a decision so... Mallory and her friend (F6) Liz decided on their own to pick up Sara and carry her around the bases. Mallory's statement to Sara: "you hit it over the fence, you deserve the home run."

Final score: WOU - 4, CWU - 2

The act caused WOU to win the game, its first conference softball championship in school history and to participate in its first ever NCAA Regional Tournament.
The act also contributed to CWU's elimination from the playoffs --and the end of Mallory's college career without a post-season game... ever.

Sara Tucholsky's softball career ended with that home run.

In the "By The Way" category......
All three players were Greater Northwest Athletic Conference 1st team Academic All-Americans.

Andy
CA31
PS: I have encountered numerous similar instances of sportsmanship over the years. All in softball (sorry "guys"), but none quite nearly so dramatic. ;-)