All,

I am a relatively new rider (bought my first bike last year) and I
have struggled to find a comfortable set up for my bike. I am very
tall (6'5"), but with short legs and a long torso. I have a XL Giant
OCR C3 bike and I can't seem to get comfortable on it. Every
adjustment I make helps 1 thing, but hurts something else.

In doing research on the internet I found the Serrota Bike fit system
that is supposed to help anyone find the correct combo of parts and
settings to make your bike feel right. Has anyone used this service
and if so, was it worth it? It isn't cheap and I would hate to waste
money.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian

Dave:

Well said.

Harvey
----- Original Message -----
From: <davidmckaywilson@...>
To: <WCCChat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 6:10 AM
Subject: Re: [WCCChat] journal news pro-cycling column


> John,
> Thx for the kind words. Still trying to figure if I am the dwarf or if its
you.
> - dave
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "John  Petti" <nyburbs@...>
>
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:22:32
> To:WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WCCChat] journal news pro-cycling column
>
>
>
>  Dave,
>
> "A dwarf standing on the shoulders of a giant may see further than a giant
himself."
>  -----Robert Burton
>
> Thank you for crafting such an important response as our President of the
WCC. This serves our extended TEAM well and we each see further for it.
>
>
>
> John Petti
>
>
> --- On Fri 08/31, < davidmckaywilson@... > wrote:
>
> From: [mailto: davidmckaywilson@...]
> To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:28:49 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WCCChat] journal news pro-cycling column
>
> Here's what I wrote in a column published yesterday in The Journal News. -
David
>
> Cyclists have the same right to the road as drivers do
>
> By DAVID MCKAY WILSON(Original publication: August 30, 2007)
>
> Robert Suhr's attack on bicyclists (Friday Community View, "Bicyclists
posing a safety hazard on our roadways") proposes that cycling be banned
during morning and commuting hours because cyclists pose a hazard for cars
during rush hour. He also suggests that cyclists be licensed and required to
carry insurance as a way to deter them from riding and to produce an income
stream of local governments.
>
> Suhr's commentary is flawed on many points. Our roads were built to be
shared, and cyclists have a right to ride. Having cyclists on the road
actually make our roads safer.
>
> In my 20 years of cycling here, I've found motorists to be quite
respectful of cyclists, even if it makes them slow down for a spell in a
tight spot.In fact, Westchester, one of the state's most bicycle-friendly
counties, should be applauded for its investment in cycling. The North and
South County trailways provide a wonderful resource for cycle commuters and
recreational cyclists.
>
> Mr. Suhr's suggestion that the state of New York set up a bureaucracy to
license cyclists is absurd. We need less bureaucracy in this state, not
more.
>
> I'm not quite clear why Mr. Suhr would want us to carry insurance. Is it
so we'd be sure to be covered if one of his SUV-driving colleagues hits us
at an intersection? I can't recall a cyclist causing injury to anyone but
him or herself. Suhr's bottom line, however, is that he wants government to
impose barriers to cycling, to discourage the sport.
>
> Car-centric folks like Mr. Suhr should take a deep breath and welcome the
county's vibrant cycling community. We are healthy and active. We shop at
our local bike shops and support the local economy. We commute by bike and
cut down on the emission of greenhouse gases.
>
> We savor our time on the county's main roads and back roads in what I
consider the world's finest cycling terrain. We ride across the hills and
through the valleys. We hunker down on those long straight stretches where
you can get in a rhythm and enjoy the countryside. We challenge ourselves on
steep hills that test your legs in ways you never imagined.
>
> Mr. Suhr asserts that cyclists, by their mere existence on the road,
aren't for the drivers. That's far from the truth. We're with the drivers
all the way, as long as they take us into consideration.
>
> He complains that cyclists are "barely respecting the rules of the road."
Well, I'll take "barely" any day. It's the cars, cruising way above the
speed limit, that are the real dangers on the roads today. Suhr should
welcome us to the roads. We're here, and our numbers are growing every day
>
>
> .The writer, a former longtime reporter for The Journal News, is president
of the 1,000-member Westchester Cycle Club.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
>
> ----------------
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite. <http://www.excite.com> com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/07
9:34 PM
>
>

John,
Thx for the kind words. Still trying to figure if I am the dwarf or if its you.
- dave
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "John  Petti" <nyburbs@...>

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:22:32
To:WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WCCChat] journal news pro-cycling column



  Dave,

"A dwarf standing on the shoulders of a giant may see further than a giant
himself."
  -----Robert Burton

Thank you for crafting such an important response as our President of the WCC.
This serves our extended TEAM well and we each see further for it.



John Petti


--- On Fri 08/31, < davidmckaywilson@... > wrote:

From: [mailto: davidmckaywilson@...]
To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:28:49 +0000
Subject: Re: [WCCChat] journal news pro-cycling column

Here's what I wrote in a column published yesterday in The Journal News. - David

Cyclists have the same right to the road as drivers do

By DAVID MCKAY WILSON(Original publication: August 30, 2007)

Robert Suhr's attack on bicyclists (Friday Community View, "Bicyclists posing a
safety hazard on our roadways") proposes that cycling be banned during morning
and commuting hours because cyclists pose a hazard for cars during rush hour. He
also suggests that cyclists be licensed and required to carry insurance as a way
to deter them from riding and to produce an income stream of local governments.

Suhr's commentary is flawed on many points. Our roads were built to be shared,
and cyclists have a right to ride. Having cyclists on the road actually make our
roads safer.

In my 20 years of cycling here, I've found motorists to be quite respectful of
cyclists, even if it makes them slow down for a spell in a tight spot.In fact,
Westchester, one of the state's most bicycle-friendly counties, should be
applauded for its investment in cycling. The North and South County trailways
provide a wonderful resource for cycle commuters and recreational cyclists.

Mr. Suhr's suggestion that the state of New York set up a bureaucracy to license
cyclists is absurd. We need less bureaucracy in this state, not more.

I'm not quite clear why Mr. Suhr would want us to carry insurance. Is it so we'd
be sure to be covered if one of his SUV-driving colleagues hits us at an
intersection? I can't recall a cyclist causing injury to anyone but him or
herself. Suhr's bottom line, however, is that he wants government to impose
barriers to cycling, to discourage the sport.

Car-centric folks like Mr. Suhr should take a deep breath and welcome the
county's vibrant cycling community. We are healthy and active. We shop at our
local bike shops and support the local economy. We commute by bike and cut down
on the emission of greenhouse gases.

We savor our time on the county's main roads and back roads in what I consider
the world's finest cycling terrain. We ride across the hills and through the
valleys. We hunker down on those long straight stretches where you can get in a
rhythm and enjoy the countryside. We challenge ourselves on steep hills that
test your legs in ways you never imagined.

Mr. Suhr asserts that cyclists, by their mere existence on the road, aren't for
the drivers. That's far from the truth. We're with the drivers all the way, as
long as they take us into consideration.

He complains that cyclists are "barely respecting the rules of the road." Well,
I'll take "barely" any day. It's the cars, cruising way above the speed limit,
that are the real dangers on the roads today. Suhr should welcome us to the
roads. We're here, and our numbers are growing every day


.The writer, a former longtime reporter for The Journal News, is president of
the 1,000-member Westchester Cycle Club.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



----------------
Join Excite! - http://www.excite. <http://www.excite.com> com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

Here's what I wrote in a column published yesterday in The Journal News. - David

Cyclists have the same right to the road as drivers do

By DAVID MCKAY WILSON(Original publication: August 30, 2007)

Robert Suhr's attack on bicyclists (Friday Community View, "Bicyclists posing a
safety hazard on our roadways") proposes that cycling be banned during morning
and commuting hours because cyclists pose a hazard for cars during rush hour. He
also suggests that cyclists be licensed and required to carry insurance as a way
to deter them from riding and to produce an income stream of local governments.

Suhr's commentary is flawed on many points. Our roads were built to be shared,
and cyclists have a right to ride. Having cyclists on the road actually make our
roads safer.

  In my 20 years of cycling here, I've found motorists to be quite respectful of
cyclists, even if it makes them slow down for a spell in a tight spot.In fact,
Westchester, one of the state's most bicycle-friendly counties, should be
applauded for its investment in cycling. The North and South County trailways
provide a wonderful resource for cycle commuters and recreational cyclists.

Mr. Suhr's suggestion that the state of New York set up a bureaucracy to license
cyclists is absurd. We need less bureaucracy in this state, not more.

I'm not quite clear why Mr. Suhr would want us to carry insurance. Is it so we'd
be sure to be covered if one of his SUV-driving colleagues hits us at an
intersection? I can't recall a cyclist causing injury to anyone but him or
herself. Suhr's bottom line, however, is that he wants government to impose
barriers to cycling, to discourage the sport.

Car-centric folks like Mr. Suhr should take a deep breath and welcome the
county's vibrant cycling community. We are healthy and active. We shop at our
local bike shops and support the local economy. We commute by bike and cut down
on the emission of greenhouse gases.

We savor our time on the county's main roads and back roads in what I consider
the world's finest cycling terrain. We ride across the hills and through the
valleys. We hunker down on those long straight stretches where you can get in a
rhythm and enjoy the countryside. We challenge ourselves on steep hills that
test your legs in ways you never imagined.

Mr. Suhr asserts that cyclists, by their mere existence on the road, aren't for
the drivers. That's far from the truth. We're with the drivers all the way, as
long as they take us into consideration.

He complains that cyclists are "barely respecting the rules of the road." Well,
I'll take "barely" any day. It's the cars, cruising way above the speed limit,
that are the real dangers on the roads today. Suhr should welcome us to the
roads. We're here, and our numbers are growing every day


.The writer, a former longtime reporter for The Journal News, is president of
the 1,000-member Westchester Cycle Club.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Full, Kevan" <kfull@...>

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:46:48
To:<WCCChat@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WCCChat] The WCC Newsletter:  Extending our voice...


Thank you Rachel for the encouragement.  That said, I think I'll pass for the
time being the offer for becoming the club's advocate, but I certainly will try
to identify who of our local government officials would be most appropriate to
contact (see below) and do what I can to get them added to our
newsletter distribution.  Further, I will use WCCChat to muster some opinion
from our membership in order to start some of the articles I suggested in my
kick-off.
 
Proposed WCC Newsletter distribution list:
 
-Andrew J. Spano
County Executive
 
From the Department of Public Works:
 

-Meredith Waltman
Director of Administrative Services (Budget)
 
-James Johnson
Superintendent of Road Maintenance
 
-Barbara Peters-DeMeo
Program Administrator (Traffic Safety)
 
-Mayors and Supervisors from Westchester's Cities, Villages, and Towns (45
individuals): responsible for local roadways.
 
I welcome any comments or suggestions.  I appreciate what I'm doing here is more
passive than what is really needed: in the face confrontation with our
government officials.  But it's a start. 
Kevan 
 

----------------

From: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WCCChat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
bike2me@...
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 6:54 AM
To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WCCChat] The WCC Newsletter: Extending our voice...





Kevin,
 
I appreciate you ideas, and as a past board member I can add we used to have an
Advocates position on the board.  I don't think if we still have that position. 
 
As with most things with this club it's on a volunteer basis.  If no one wants
to do it, it won't get done.  Which is what I believe happened to the advocate
position while I was on the board, the person stepped down and no one wanted to
step up.   Same for witting articles for the newsletter.  We all read Sam
whining about no one writes and no one want to lead rides.
 
So my suggestion is if you feel strongly about this, step and do it.  It's a
great idea.
 
Rachel
 




----------------
  Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982> .

Kevan 

From: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WCCChat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bike2me@...
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 6:54 AM
To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WCCChat] The WCC Newsletter: Extending our voice...

Although I haven't done it myself, a shorter alternative to the route
provided by David might be to take NY-121 north, then Route 6 and
local roads to CT-133 into Bridgewater.

The Connecticut Bicycle Map might be of use: see it online at
http://www.ct.gov/dot/cwp/view.asp?a=1380&q=259662

--Alan

Folks,



I've been thinking.  In light of recent emails here about the Rye cyclist's
death and the seemingly harsh governance directed towards us riders by the Town
of Bedford police, and add to those two points, the role a bicycle should have
in our community not only as sport but as a viable transportation alternative;
should the club take on a more progressive role as a cyclist's advocate for here
in Westchester?



I'm not suggesting any political party affiliation, rather the club simply be a
voice for the Westchester cyclist.  Why can't the local and state politicians
who are directly associated with determining our roadway and cycling
requirements become honorary members of the club during their term and receive
the club's newsletter so they are better aware of our numbers and resolve?  And
why can't the news letter then contain articles such as "Westchester's Worst
Roads - a cyclists' poll", "Let's extend the Bike Path Network to Help the
Cycle-Commuter", and "What is a cyclist's rights on a Westchester road?", that
will tell our politicians how we feel about cycling and our community?  I
appreciate they very well might not read our newsletter, but maybe their staff
will, and at least we have made the effort to extend our word beyond the choir. 
I believe it will also give us the right to say, "We told you so!" should the
need rise.



I appreciate the club's charter is socially intended, but perhaps we can add a
voice too.  I'm not suggesting the newsletter's format be completed altered
either, it can still contain the information it has always held.



Frankly, the communication of warnings and frustrations exhibited on WCCRides
and WCCChat are nothing more than what I referred to earlier, preaching to the
choir, doing nothing really to solve our ridership woes.



So what does this membership think?



  Kevan

I'm taking a ride from South Salem, NY to Bridgewater, CT.  Can anyone
recommend the best roads to take?

Thanks,

I just got my newsletter and I see that on sept 15th there's a 65 mile
D ride. That's quite a hike for a D ride. :-)

What an experience...

Imagine what it's like to ride the first 30 miles of a route, tired and totally
beaten by both the heat and all the climbing, arriving to the first check point,
and finding out you've only done 11 miles.  That give you a flavor of what this
ride was all about this weekend.

I think what comes to mind first is it was a "Death March". I appreciate that I
haven't been putting in the miles this year, but come on... a metric century is
that easy-doable ride.  You know...like the Bloomin' Metric which greets us each
spring when we're trying to reestablish our legs.  Least that's  what  I
thought.

Okay, I'm proud enough to say I finished the damn thing, and happily accept my
DQ, and there comes a certain pride when you declare, "That ride took me 7 hours
to finish." Between all the leg and toe cramping that entertained me last night
I had a good laugh between bouts at just how hard this ride was. Honestly, for
some perspective, it was like running in sand.

A fellow rider was a bit worried about my using a somewhat new Brooks saddle and
what horribly painful abrasions it might cause my personals. Well, after appling
1/2 a container of Assos chamois creme liberally to the shorts, then add over a
7 hour period 15 gallons of sweat oozing from a beaten body, it turned that
tough English leather into something that looked and had the consistency of a
slice of bologna. The saddle... is now officially broken in.

The gearing could stand some improvement.  I enjoyed my 34/32 a lot, but there
were those moments where a 34/34 would have been nice.

It's unfortunate it was as hot as it was, because I spent most of the ride in a
zone. There wasn't much vista viewing, I was simply trying the keep the rubber
in contact with the dirt. This ride was playing out my two weak points: heat and
hills.   This ride is technical and deserves respect, talent and good equipment.

Glad I did it, but I think I'll wait a few months for the bad memories to soften
before I claim another expedition.  Meanwhile, I'll wear the t-shirt as a badge
of honor.

Hope all went well for you and your wife Steve.

Kevan

WCC Triathletes,

I had a nice chat today at the Tour de PUtnam with Val Hickman,
executive director of the Putnam Visitors Bureau. She wants to hold a
triathlon in Putnam, but doesn't know much about hosting one. I told
her I'd help her out. Is there anyone out there who knows abou the
triathlon scene or can refer me to people who can help? Thanks!

David

You can also email offlist at davidmckaywilson@...

---

To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
From: srichman@...
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:35:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [WCCChat] The Third Annual Deerfield Dirt-Road Randonnee (D2R2)

Kevan:
I did the ride last year and you will need every sprocket on your 32t cassette.  My wife and I are signed up again for this year's ride and are planning to do the 100K.
For those that are potentially interested, the ride is on 60-70% dirt and unpaved farm roads, explaining Kevan's heavy duty tires.  Other than on a few miles of main roads, I don't recall seeing too many cars on this ride.
I'll look out for you and your special bike. 
Steve
 
 
 



 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Full, Kevan"
Sent: Aug 22, 2007 12:11 PM
To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WCCChat] The Third Annual Deerfield Dirt-Road Randonnee (D2R2)

Changing the subject from rider mishaps...

 

I just thought some of my fellow members might be interested in exploring a rather unusual cycling event that is coming up this weekend.  I apologize for my late introduction, but last minute arrangements to attend are likely still possible and there is always next year.

 

I've built up a bike designed special for this occasion, complete with heavy-treaded 32cm tires, compact crank and a rear cassette the size of a hub cap (32t). I opted for moustache bars and barend shifters, keeping with the countrified theme of this ride.  The frame is of course steel-lugged.  

 

Anyway, here is the website for those of you curious.

 

http://newhorizonsbikes.com/page.cfm?PageID=347

 

 

Kevan

Kevan:

I did the ride last year and you will need every sprocket on your 32t cassette.  My wife and I are signed up again for this year's ride and are planning to do the 100K.

For those that are potentially interested, the ride is on 60-70% dirt and unpaved farm roads, explaining Kevan's heavy duty tires.  Other than on a few miles of main roads, I don't recall seeing too many cars on this ride.

I'll look out for you and your special bike. 

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: "Full, Kevan"
Sent: Aug 22, 2007 12:11 PM
To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WCCChat] The Third Annual Deerfield Dirt-Road Randonnee (D2R2)

Changing the subject from rider mishaps...

 

I just thought some of my fellow members might be interested in exploring a rather unusual cycling event that is coming up this weekend.  I apologize for my late introduction, but last minute arrangements to attend are likely still possible and there is always next year.

 

I've built up a bike designed special for this occasion, complete with heavy-treaded 32cm tires, compact crank and a rear cassette the size of a hub cap (32t). I opted for moustache bars and barend shifters, keeping with the countrified theme of this ride.  The frame is of course steel-lugged.  

 

Anyway, here is the website for those of you curious.

 

http://newhorizonsbikes.com/page.cfm?PageID=347

 

 

Kevan

For those if you who weren't posting on BBSes in the early 80's you
are experiencing something called a "flamewar."

Haven't seen a good flamewar in a long time, mostly because we did
that when we were teenagers, and now we're all in our 30's.

Worry not, usually somebody ends up going off in a huff and things
quiet down again.

But in an open forum, you're going to get people with strong feelings
on certain subjects and it's going to happen. It goes away quicker if
you don't fan the flames.

Thank you for looking this up and reporting on it, and it's great to
read that cycling is safe, but I think there is one thing missing.
These numbers need to be scale by the total number of miles
driven/biked per year in order to really see which activity is safer
per mile.  Unfortunately, I think there are many, many, many more
miles driven in th U.S. then there are miles biked.  If you're only
biking for recreation, then the situation looks a little rosier since
then these numbers should probably be scaled by the number of hours
doing each activity instead.

Regardless of this, biking adds extra years to your life by making you
healthier.  I have no data, but I would guess that on average biking
provides more then it takes.  However, this is little consolation for
the families that experience bicycle related tragedies.

take care and bike safe,
mark


--- In WCCChat@yahoogroups.com, "brucekwells" <bkwells@...> wrote:
>
> Given the discussion, I thought I would google some traffic fatality
> numbers.  Apparently, in 1997, New York state is the THIRD safest to
> drive in based on fatalities.  Mississippi is the worst.
>
> So for 1997, we have 18,137,000 people, we had 822 drivers killed, 50%
> of the fatalities. 376 passengers killed (22.9%), guess we mostly
> drive alone.  383 pedestrian deaths (23.3%), and 49 cyclists killed
> (3%) and .8% other (don't know what that would include).
>
> So from these figures, it looks like driving is the most dangerous
> activity you could do on the road.  Being a passenger or walking are
> also both dangerous compared to cycling.  I'll take cycling any day.
>
> Here is the original link:
>
> http://www.disastercenter.com/traffic/tpe.htm
>
> Another page shows NY tied for 6th place:
>
>
http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/shr2004/components/vehicledeaths.html
>
> Of course, in our car crazed culture, the USA is #1 in car fatalities
> world wide.  Go USA!!!!!!
>
>
http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/shr2004/components/vehicledeaths.html
>
> As for roads being for cars, only limited access roads are for cars
> only, and some parkways even exclude trucks with commercial plates.
>
> The rest of the roads are for ANY legal vehicle, and that includes
> bikes and inline skaters, but not motorized scooters, mini-bikes, dirt
> bikes, go-karts, and bicycles with motors attached.
>
> So actually, you can drive to work and think you are safe.  I'll ride
> my bicycle and be safer.  Something to think about before you decide
> driving is safer.
>
> Bruce
>

Given the discussion, I thought I would google some traffic fatality
numbers.  Apparently, in 1997, New York state is the THIRD safest to
drive in based on fatalities.  Mississippi is the worst.

So for 1997, we have 18,137,000 people, we had 822 drivers killed, 50%
of the fatalities. 376 passengers killed (22.9%), guess we mostly
drive alone.  383 pedestrian deaths (23.3%), and 49 cyclists killed
(3%) and .8% other (don't know what that would include).

So from these figures, it looks like driving is the most dangerous
activity you could do on the road.  Being a passenger or walking are
also both dangerous compared to cycling.  I'll take cycling any day.

Here is the original link:

http://www.disastercenter.com/traffic/tpe.htm

Another page shows NY tied for 6th place:

http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/shr2004/components/vehicledeaths.html

Of course, in our car crazed culture, the USA is #1 in car fatalities
world wide.  Go USA!!!!!!

http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/shr2004/components/vehicledeaths.html

As for roads being for cars, only limited access roads are for cars
only, and some parkways even exclude trucks with commercial plates.

The rest of the roads are for ANY legal vehicle, and that includes
bikes and inline skaters, but not motorized scooters, mini-bikes, dirt
bikes, go-karts, and bicycles with motors attached.

So actually, you can drive to work and think you are safe.  I'll ride
my bicycle and be safer.  Something to think about before you decide
driving is safer.

Bruce

Since you have such a sunny disposition...a couple more options for
you to consider:

Option 1: Switch to Sanka...you might not be so 'edgy'

Option 2: Stay in your hybrid car and let the rest of us ride in peace


--- In WCCChat@yahoogroups.com, Tiffany Tomac <ajpnyc1015@...> wrote:
>
> Seems like there a 2 solutions to this dilemma:
>
>   Option 1: You have some schmuck lawyer who gets you more than
$100,000 for your injury but you have to have someone wipe your ass
for the rest of your life b/c you're a quadrapalegic. Oh yes and let's
not forget you had the law on your side that you could share the road
with the car - legalities are important to a quad.
>
>    OR
>
>   Option 2 - Eff the idea of being environmentally conscious and get
in your effing hybrid instead and just DRIVE to work. You're $100,000
less rich but guess what, that new girl you met online will appreciate
not having to one day wipe your poopies.....unless she divorces you first.
>
>   Reality is a bitch!
>
>
>
> "Full, Kevan" <kfull@...> wrote:
>              This is sort of relevant:
>
>       Bicycle lawyers finding new clients in injured cyclists  By
KEITH RIDLER
> ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER
>   BOISE, Idaho -- Chris Cook liked his plan to save money on gas and
be environmentally conscious by riding his bike six miles to work -
until the second time the electrical engineer bounced off the grille
of a vehicle.
>   "The first time I got hit I made the mistake of not calling the
police," said Cook. "The second time I made sure that was the first
thing I did after I got off the ground."
>   Cook, of Boise, became one of a growing number of commuter
cyclists turned into hood ornaments, a trend noticed by attorneys -
especially attorneys who are also cyclists - who in state after state
are touting their own cycling credentials as much as their legal
skills on web sites to bruised bike riders.
>   "I have talked to more commuters who have been in car-bicycle
incidents in the last year and a half than I have in the previous 10
years," said Kurt Holzer, a Boise-based attorney and cyclist who said
he's won several cases that have exceeded the vehicle driver's
$100,000 insurance coverage.
>   Bob Anderton, a Seattle-based lawyer who bikes to work, said his
business has climbed to 80 percent injured cyclists.
>   "It's through the roof, it's terrible," he said. "People are just
getting hit all the time."
>   The two are among what appears to be a growing number of attorneys
actively seeking cyclists injured in collisions with vehicles.
>   "I think a lot of states have guys who specialize in that," said
Mike Colbach, an attorney based in Portland, Ore., who last year won a
$550,000 settlement for an injured cyclist.
>   "It's almost never the cyclist's fault, and they tend to get
pretty significantly injured," he said. "Wrist, arm, and unfortunately
sometimes brain injuries from hitting their head."
>   The Idaho Transportation Department reported 333 bicycle-car
collisions in 2006, the most in a steadily growing trend over the last
five years.
>   The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported late
last month that in 2006 an estimated 44,000 "pedalcyclists," mainly
bicyclists, were injured in traffic crashes, and that 773 were killed.
Those numbers are down about 2 percent from 2005, though the number of
injured cyclists contacting lawyers appears to be increasing.
>   "People are less willing to just take it," said Elizabeth Preston,
director of communications with the League of American Bicyclists,
which promotes bicycle riding and recently started a legal network to
connect lawyers with cyclists involved in accidents. "They're not
going to be hit and just walk away - if they can walk away."
>   In Oregon in 2006, 14 cyclists were killed in collisions with
vehicles, the most in the last five years. Overall last year, the
state had the second most cycle-vehicle collisions in the last five years.
>   "My sense is more and more people are looking at bikes as an
option to get to work and get some exercise," said Mike Mason,
spokesman for the Oregon Department of Transportation. "Saving money
not only on gas, but wear and tear on their cars."
>   The Washington State Department of Transportation reported that
vehicle collisions with cyclists have stayed relatively steady - in
the 1,250 range annually - in the last five years. Of those hit last
year, 123 were unable to leave the scene under their own power, and
six died.
>   Each state reported that bicyclists are nearly always injured to
some extent when colliding with vehicles.
>   "Think about what a car weighs and what a person on a bicycle
weighs," said Rick Ohnsman of the Idaho State Police, who said he's
noticed more bicyclists on the road. "The simple physics of the deal,
and there's really nothing between you and the pavement."
>   Attorneys who represent injured cyclists say they face unique
challenges, one of them overcoming a perception among some drivers,
juries, and occasionally police that bicyclists don't belong on the
road at all.
>   "It's a car culture," said Holzer. "There's this sense that the
car didn't do anything wrong - it's the cyclist."
>   Anderton said police reports are sometimes one-sided.
>   "If a bicyclist gets hit, (the cyclist) often leaves the scene -
they're sent to the hospital," said Anderton. "Who's left? The driver,
and they say, 'Oh, he jumped the curb and ran into me.'"
>   He's also represented cyclists who contacted him only after
receiving a bill from the driver's insurance company wanting payment
for damage to a vehicle.
>   And he said he's represented cyclists who were intentionally hit
by drivers, though he downplays that angle because it's difficult to
get insurance companies to cover intentional acts.
>   "I've gone so far as to call someone negligently suffering from
road rage," he said. "In Seattle, our traffic is a nightmare. It's
annoying to be struck in traffic, but you can't take it out on a
bicyclist."
>   Attorneys say injured cyclists do have one advantage in court in
that they tend not to be viewed by juries as people trying to work the
system for a big jackpot.
>   "Bicyclists are really the exception to the bias," said Anderton.
"They are not malingerers; they want to be on their bicycle. I find my
clients tend to under-treat rather than over-treat. I like that. I
think most people who are sitting on a jury like that."
>   Even when cyclists escape serious injury, Holzer said insurance
companies balk at paying to replace a bicycle that can be worth more
than the car that hit it.
>   The second driver who ran into Cook was cited for failure to
yield, Cook said, and her insurance company ended up paying $3,000 to
replace his bike, which ended up underneath a Ford Expedition, and
another $150 to replace his high-end helmet.
>   Cook said he wasn't sure how he jumped clear, and didn't know what
the medical bills were for his trip to the emergency room, where he
was treated and checked for a head injury before being released.
>   Holzer advised against a lawsuit in that case because he said the
insurance company did everything right.
>   Dave Carlson, director of public and government affairs for AAA of
Idaho, said the problem for even alert motorists who don't mind
sharing the road is that bicyclists can travel fast and are hard to
see. Still, he expects more of them on the road along with more
scooters and motorcycles.
>   "I think it's quite likely that if gasoline prices hold, that we
would expect to see a more varied mix on the highways," he said.
>   That means bicycle attorneys will likely continue to find clients.
Cook said he hopes he's not among them, though he's recently had
narrow escapes riding on downtown Boise's Capitol Boulevard.
>   "I've had a couple close calls where someone will almost have
their side-view mirror touch your arm," he said.
>   Anderton, who rides through Seattle traffic, said he has close
calls on a daily basis but still prefers the exercise of biking to work.
>   "If you don't get killed," he said, "you'll be a lot healthier."
>   ---
>   On the Net:
>   League of American Bicyclists: http://www.bikeleague.org.
>   National Highway Traffic Safety Administration:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:
mail, news, photos & more.
>

Hello Tiffany,

Wednesday, August 22, 2007, 12:13:43 PM, you wrote:

The roads are a *public* right-of-way*.  They are for public use by all unless otherwise designated (as if everyone doesn't already know that).
 They used to be used mainly by horses and carriages.

You can get killed in a car accident just as easily as on a bike by the same inconsiderate, aggressive, text messaging, cell phone talking, in a hurry to go no where drivers.  

Bikes on the road getting hit is just another *symptom*, not the issue.  

Could it be that the only issue is that in the society we live in, no longer do we treat others as we would want to be treated?

Hopefully we'll all take a moment to pause and consider this before it becomes our mate, our child, our parent, our sibling, our friend, our co-worker that gets in any kind of an accident on the road.  It is truely sad that until something touches us personally, we don't think it's our problem.

My philosophical $.32 cents (adjusted for inflation).

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

 This is sort of relevant:

 

 

Bicycle lawyers finding new clients in injured cyclists

By KEITH RIDLER
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

BOISE, Idaho -- Chris Cook liked his plan to save money on gas and be environmentally conscious by riding his bike six miles to work - until the second time the electrical engineer bounced off the grille of a vehicle.

"The first time I got hit I made the mistake of not calling the police," said Cook. "The second time I made sure that was the first thing I did after I got off the ground."

Cook, of Boise, became one of a growing number of commuter cyclists turned into hood ornaments, a trend noticed by attorneys - especially attorneys who are also cyclists - who in state after state are touting their own cycling credentials as much as their legal skills on web sites to bruised bike riders.

"I have talked to more commuters who have been in car-bicycle incidents in the last year and a half than I have in the previous 10 years," said Kurt Holzer, a Boise-based attorney and cyclist who said he's won several cases that have exceeded the vehicle driver's $100,000 insurance coverage.

Bob Anderton, a Seattle-based lawyer who bikes to work, said his business has climbed to 80 percent injured cyclists.

"It's through the roof, it's terrible," he said. "People are just getting hit all the time."

The two are among what appears to be a growing number of attorneys actively seeking cyclists injured in collisions with vehicles.

"I think a lot of states have guys who specialize in that," said Mike Colbach, an attorney based in Portland, Ore., who last year won a $550,000 settlement for an injured cyclist.

"It's almost never the cyclist's fault, and they tend to get pretty significantly injured," he said. "Wrist, arm, and unfortunately sometimes brain injuries from hitting their head."

The Idaho Transportation Department reported 333 bicycle-car collisions in 2006, the most in a steadily growing trend over the last five years.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported late last month that in 2006 an estimated 44,000 "pedalcyclists," mainly bicyclists, were injured in traffic crashes, and that 773 were killed. Those numbers are down about 2 percent from 2005, though the number of injured cyclists contacting lawyers appears to be increasing.

"People are less willing to just take it," said Elizabeth Preston, director of communications with the League of American Bicyclists, which promotes bicycle riding and recently started a legal network to connect lawyers with cyclists involved in accidents. "They're not going to be hit and just walk away - if they can walk away."

In Oregon in 2006, 14 cyclists were killed in collisions with vehicles, the most in the last five years. Overall last year, the state had the second most cycle-vehicle collisions in the last five years.

"My sense is more and more people are looking at bikes as an option to get to work and get some exercise," said Mike Mason, spokesman for the Oregon Department of Transportation. "Saving money not only on gas, but wear and tear on their cars."

The Washington State Department of Transportation reported that vehicle collisions with cyclists have stayed relatively steady - in the 1,250 range annually - in the last five years. Of those hit last year, 123 were unable to leave the scene under their own power, and six died.

Each state reported that bicyclists are nearly always injured to some extent when colliding with vehicles.

"Think about what a car weighs and what a person on a bicycle weighs," said Rick Ohnsman of the Idaho State Police, who said he's noticed more bicyclists on the road. "The simple physics of the deal, and there's really nothing between you and the pavement."

Attorneys who represent injured cyclists say they face unique challenges, one of them overcoming a perception among some drivers, juries, and occasionally police that bicyclists don't belong on the road at all.

"It's a car culture," said Holzer. "There's this sense that the car didn't do anything wrong - it's the cyclist."

Anderton said police reports are sometimes one-sided.

"If a bicyclist gets hit, (the cyclist) often leaves the scene - they're sent to the hospital," said Anderton. "Who's left? The driver, and they say, 'Oh, he jumped the curb and ran into me.'"

He's also represented cyclists who contacted him only after receiving a bill from the driver's insurance company wanting payment for damage to a vehicle.

And he said he's represented cyclists who were intentionally hit by drivers, though he downplays that angle because it's difficult to get insurance companies to cover intentional acts.

"I've gone so far as to call someone negligently suffering from road rage," he said. "In Seattle, our traffic is a nightmare. It's annoying to be struck in traffic, but you can't take it out on a bicyclist."

Attorneys say injured cyclists do have one advantage in court in that they tend not to be viewed by juries as people trying to work the system for a big jackpot.

"Bicyclists are really the exception to the bias," said Anderton. "They are not malingerers; they want to be on their bicycle. I find my clients tend to under-treat rather than over-treat. I like that. I think most people who are sitting on a jury like that."

Even when cyclists escape serious injury, Holzer said insurance companies balk at paying to replace a bicycle that can be worth more than the car that hit it.

The second driver who ran into Cook was cited for failure to yield, Cook said, and her insurance company ended up paying $3,000 to replace his bike, which ended up underneath a Ford Expedition, and another $150 to replace his high-end helmet.

Cook said he wasn't sure how he jumped clear, and didn't know what the medical bills were for his trip to the emergency room, where he was treated and checked for a head injury before being released.

Holzer advised against a lawsuit in that case because he said the insurance company did everything right.

Dave Carlson, director of public and government affairs for AAA of Idaho, said the problem for even alert motorists who don't mind sharing the road is that bicyclists can travel fast and are hard to see. Still, he expects more of them on the road along with more scooters and motorcycles.

"I think it's quite likely that if gasoline prices hold, that we would expect to see a more varied mix on the highways," he said.

That means bicycle attorneys will likely continue to find clients. Cook said he hopes he's not among them, though he's recently had narrow escapes riding on downtown Boise's Capitol Boulevard.

"I've had a couple close calls where someone will almost have their side-view mirror touch your arm," he said.

Anderton, who rides through Seattle traffic, said he has close calls on a daily basis but still prefers the exercise of biking to work.

"If you don't get killed," he said, "you'll be a lot healthier."

---

On the Net:

League of American Bicyclists: http://www.bikeleague.org.

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov

Dear all,

I don’t understand why these kinds of emails are sent…are we trying to scare people away from bicycling?  Instead we should promote bicycling and all the benefits we get from it.  If we can get more people riding on the roads, we will all be more noticeable and therefore safer.  Hopefully, that person was enjoying his/her life riding and my condolences to family and friends of the cyclist.

Marianne

---

From: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WCCChat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gasperinojoe
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 9:15 PM
To: WCCChat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WCCChat] Cyclist killed

FYI

A Rye cyclist was killed this past weekend while riding through an
intersection in upstate New York. The driver was not charged. I don't
believe he was a WCC member. Just a reminder of the risks we take when
we take to the road.