Great response Bruce,

Very well put--in fact I have been saying the same things for years.
The saddest thing is that new members are presented with a set of
ride descriptions that they use as a gauge to decide on their very
first experience with the club. If that experience is not a
supportive one, they may be discouraged from joining future club
rides. Sam refers to "truth in advertising" and has become an
advocate of multi-level rides as the solution. I understand these
multi-level rides are a lot of fun. They are essentially a take-off
of the Flings concept which I also find a lot of fun. But ordinary
club rides are still the backbone of the Ride Schedule and the club
has wrestled with the pace issue for years. (I also know that other
clubs do the same wrestling and haven't come up with any simple
solutions). Obviously the honor system doesn't work and true pace-
policing would be tyrannical.

I think though Adrienne's question also includes the practical
concept of terrain. The hills she refers to used to be considered B
or B+ terrain. Hills are not unheard of on C rides and in
Westchester are rather hard to avoid, but are very doable if done
slowly. I can still do those hills, bad knees and all, but I can't
hammer on them. The point being that if I were expected to keep up
with the group that was pushing the pace on a C ride that included
these hills, I'd be an unhappy camper. I like the idea of the C+
category in reference to pace, but I too noted in the newsletter that
there is no differentiation between terrain on B, C+, and C rides.
My experience with hills on C rides was vastly different than it was
with B rides.

That's 2 more cents.

Roz

--- In WCCChat@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Wells" <bkwells@...> wrote:
>
> Adrienne,
>
> The board voted to change the speed of the ride categories a few
> months back. I think the web site has not been updated, but I don't
> specifically see where you are quoting from. I for one was opposed
to
> the change. I believe the newsletter is correct.
>
> While bikes have gotten better and speeds have increased, I think it
> is the riders that should move up to another level. I went on a B+
> ride earlier this year and it was an A ride for about 1/2 the
riders.
> It was sad to see that that true B+ riders were being dropped, but
> that is what happened, the "A" riders where in the lead group, and
the
> B+ riders where trailing behind, and I was not in front, but helping
> the B+ rides to stay with the lead pack.
>
> I think I convinced some of the "A" riders to ride A now and two are
> now leading A rides, as they should be, since they are very strong
> riders, but most of them I am sure are still pushing the pace on the
> B+ rides. The tendency is for riders to continue to ride with the
> same group they started with, rather than move up to a faster level.
> I started as a C rider. I still see those people at parties, but I
> don't ride with them any more. I've moved up with my skill level.
> Everyone else should do the same and stop torturing riders who are
> riding at the advertised pace.
>
> The sad fact of the matter is we need to keep slower levels slower
for
> new riders, and should not make category jumps so large that it is
> impossible to move up one level. One mile per hour difference in
> average speed is a large jump at the higher levels, not so much
going
> from D to C, but what I see is more experienced riders still riding
at
> the lower paced rides and destroying the ability to get new members
to
> keep up when they should be able to. It is just plain selfish to
ride
> on a ride below your level and be at the front of the ride. If you
> want to ride at a lower level, help the riders in the back keep up
> with the pack, don't push the pace just so you can think you are
some
> sort of "super" rider. In cycling there is always someone faster
than
> you.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Bruce
>
> > Ride Category Has anyone else noticed the change?
> > Posted by: "Adrienne"
adriennedsp@... adriennedsp
> > Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:28 am (PST)
> > I participated in a great ride on Sunday. The cue
> > > sheet, scenery and people on the ride added to the
> > > enjoyment. I found that combining two ride
> > > categories with 2 leaders is a great concept which can
> > > help catch those riders who get flats or want to slow
> > > down a bit. I got a flat, and ended up riding with the C-
folks
> > who caught up to me as I was ready to start again. (Thank you
Renee
> > for staying & helping me)
> > >
> > > The ride was was labeled C+ and C-. It seems that some C-
folks
> > who enjoyed the company and scenery, found some of the hills
such as
> > Whipoorwill, Taylor, and Sheather as too challenging. There were
> > quite a few hill walkers on the ride.
> > >
> > > So tonight I decided to research the club website to find
> > > out the definition of the new C+ and C- categories that
defined
> > these two rides. The below are definitions of the C and C+ paced
> > rides that I extracted in verbatim from the website.
> > >
> > > "C+ Fast - average speed 11 - 13 mph, average speed on
> > > flats 15 - 16 mph, breaks every 15 > to 20 miles
> > > C Fast - average speed 11 - 13 mph, average speed on
> > > flats 15 - 16 mph, breaks every 15 > to 20 miles"
> > >
> > Both C categories sound the same to me. Now that we have C and
C+
> > and C-, categories, can anyone figure out what's the difference
> > between them?
> > Terrain?
> > Thanks, Adrienne
> >
> >
>