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Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...   Topic List   < Prev Topic  |  Next Topic >
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#44191 From: "Paul Hanlin Jr." <speedsk8fan@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 4:06 pm
Subject: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
speedsk8fan
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Say it ain't so, Claudia...

------

For immediate Release
Lausanne, July 3, 2009

 
German Speed Skater Ms. Claudia Pechstein found guilty of Anti-Doping Rules
violation
 

On July 1, 2009, the ISU Disciplinary Commission found Ms. Claudia
Pechstein of Germany guilty of violation of rule 2.2 of the ISU
Anti-Doping Rules “Use or Attempted Use by a Skater of a Prohibited Substance
or a Prohibited Method”,  and has taken the following Decision. The full
opinion and decision is published on the ISU website www.isu.org.
 
1. Claudia Pechstein is declared responsible for an Anti-Doping violation
under Article 2.2 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules by using the prohibited
method of blood doping.


2. The results obtained by Claudia Pechstein in the 500 m and 3'000 m
races at the World Allround Speed Skating Championships on February 7,
2009, are disqualified and her points, prices and medals forfeited.

3. A two years ineligibility, beginning on February 9, 2009, is imposed on
Claudia Pechstein.

4. The Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft e.V. shall pay to the ISU the costs
to be determined.

5. Each Party bears its own costs of proceedings and expenses. The present
decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, Lausanne,
Switzerland, within 21 days upon receipt of the decision, in accordance with
Article 24, paragraph 12 and Article 25 of the ISU Constitution and Rule 13.2.1
and 13.6 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules.
 
The International Skating Union (ISU) had for many years a comprehensive
Anti-Doping Program in compliance with the World Anti-Doping Code. This
program incorporates both urine and blood testing to identify prohibited
substances and also blood screening for hematological “passport”.
 
The ISU blood screening program began in 1999 and uses a specific program
called SAFE (Safe and Fair Event Testing) to monitor the Skaters blood
parameters. Over the years, the ISU has performed more than 11’000
blood tests on approx. 1650 speed skaters and has created a hematological
passport for each which details blood parameters over time. Long term monitoring
allows the ISU Medical Commission to better detect anomalies or specific changes
over time. In case of anomalies further targeted testing follows.
 
According to the WADA Comment to Rule 3.2 of the WADA Code in force since
January 1, 2009 (and adopted by the ISU - see ISU Communication 1546),
conclusions drawn from the Skaters blood profile created from a series
of tests may be used for establishing a violation of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules.
 
Based on the evidence of Ms. Pechstein's profile which included abnormal
values and abnormal changes of values in a series of tests (in particular in the
tests conducted during the Essent ISU World Allround Championships held in Hamar
on February 7-8, 2009) and in compliance with it’s responsibilities in the
fight against doping, the ISU, on March 5, 2009 filed charges of anti-doping
rules violation against Ms. Pechstein with the ISU Disciplinary Commission.
After written submissions of evidence, written expert opinions and arguments by
both parties and by the German Federation (Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft
e.V.), a two-day hearing was held by the ISU Disciplinary Commission in Bern,
SWI on June 29-30, 2009. Witnesses and five experts gave testimony and
thereafter, the ISU Disciplinary Commission rendered the above-mentioned
Decision.  
 
The Decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport
(CAS) in Lausanne, and accordingly, the ISU will not provide additional
comment.
 
The ISU remains committed to fight doping in order to ensure the respect of its
rules and the ideals of the Olympic movement. 

------------

Wow.

Paul






#44192 From: robert koorneef <robertkoorneef@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Skate] Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
robert_koorneef
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

So Ria Visser was right. Alas...

Robert K.





#44193 From: "Nils Lid Hjort" <nils@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 5:46 pm
Subject: Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
krasotaspase...
Offline Offline
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Or, rather, say it is so, and tell us absolutely
everything about it, including how much, when,
with the help of whom, etc. That's the only way
we may still cling to an ounce of a vague hope
of living in a semi-clean world, to have More
Truths & Detailed Confessions on the table.
Were you doped when you won all these medals,
Mrs Pechstein? Just tell us.

There should be an Olympic Rule that whoever is
taken in doping should have all earlier Olympic
results (from medals to national and world records)
taken away from them, with Re-distribution of Medals
(if not wealth) etc. etc.

The story is highly unfortunate, of course, also
for people close to Mrs Pechstein, such as Peter
Mueller. There may be a line-up of people to the
kitchen sink now (those who need to publicly
wash their hands).

NLH
... from a weak internet line in his Torino
hotel room.

> Say it ain't so, Claudia...
>
> ------
>
> For immediate Release
> Lausanne, July 3, 2009
>
>  
> German Speed Skater Ms. Claudia Pechstein found guilty of Anti-Doping Rules
violation
>  
>
> On July 1, 2009, the ISU Disciplinary Commission found Ms. Claudia
> Pechstein of Germany guilty of violation of rule 2.2 of the ISU
> Anti-Doping Rules “Use or Attempted Use by a Skater of a Prohibited
Substance or a Prohibited Method”,  and has taken the following Decision. The
full opinion and decision is published on the ISU website www.isu.org.
>  
> 1. Claudia Pechstein is declared responsible for an Anti-Doping violation
> under Article 2.2 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules by using the prohibited
> method of blood doping.
>
>
> 2. The results obtained by Claudia Pechstein in the 500 m and 3'000 m
> races at the World Allround Speed Skating Championships on February 7,
> 2009, are disqualified and her points, prices and medals forfeited.
>
> 3. A two years ineligibility, beginning on February 9, 2009, is imposed on
Claudia Pechstein.
>
> 4. The Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft e.V. shall pay to the ISU the
costs to be determined.
>
> 5. Each Party bears its own costs of proceedings and expenses. The present
decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, Lausanne,
Switzerland, within 21 days upon receipt of the decision, in accordance with
Article 24, paragraph 12 and Article 25 of the ISU Constitution and Rule 13.2.1
and 13.6 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules.
>  
> The International Skating Union (ISU) had for many years a comprehensive
> Anti-Doping Program in compliance with the World Anti-Doping Code. This
> program incorporates both urine and blood testing to identify prohibited
substances and also blood screening for hematological “passport”.
>  
> The ISU blood screening program began in 1999 and uses a specific program
> called SAFE (Safe and Fair Event Testing) to monitor the Skaters blood
> parameters. Over the years, the ISU has performed more than 11’000
> blood tests on approx. 1650 speed skaters and has created a hematological
passport for each which details blood parameters over time. Long term monitoring
allows the ISU Medical Commission to better detect anomalies or specific changes
over time. In case of anomalies further targeted testing follows.
>  
> According to the WADA Comment to Rule 3.2 of the WADA Code in force since
January 1, 2009 (and adopted by the ISU - see ISU Communication 1546),
> conclusions drawn from the Skaters blood profile created from a series
> of tests may be used for establishing a violation of the ISU Anti-Doping
Rules.
>  
> Based on the evidence of Ms. Pechstein's profile which included abnormal
> values and abnormal changes of values in a series of tests (in particular in
the tests conducted during the Essent ISU World Allround Championships held in
Hamar on February 7-8, 2009) and in compliance with it’s responsibilities in
the fight against doping, the ISU, on March 5, 2009 filed charges of anti-doping
rules violation against Ms. Pechstein with the ISU Disciplinary Commission.
After written submissions of evidence, written expert opinions and arguments by
both parties and by the German Federation (Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft
e.V.), a two-day hearing was held by the ISU Disciplinary Commission in Bern,
SWI on June 29-30, 2009. Witnesses and five experts gave testimony and
thereafter, the ISU Disciplinary Commission rendered the above-mentioned
Decision.  
>  
> The Decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport
> (CAS) in Lausanne, and accordingly, the ISU will not provide additional
> comment.
>  
> The ISU remains committed to fight doping in order to ensure the respect of
its rules and the ideals of the Olympic movement. 
>
> ------------
>
> Wow.
>
> Paul
>





#44194 From: "T.B.Hansen" <speedskating@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 7:43 pm
Subject: Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
skyggespill
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Nils Lid Hjort:

> The story is highly unfortunate, of course, also
> for people close to Mrs Pechstein, such as Peter
> Mueller. There may be a line-up of people to the
> kitchen sink now (those who need to publicly
> wash their hands).

This is, of course, the more shocking for us Norwegians.

How could Mueller not know this? Does he care that little about his pupils?


--------------
T.B.Hansen




#44197 From: Irene Postma <speedskating@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 11:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
bachliefhebber
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Why do you assume Mueller did not know?


Op 03-07-2009 21:43, schreef T.B.Hansen <speedskating@...>:

> Nils Lid Hjort:
>
>> The story is highly unfortunate, of course, also
>> for people close to Mrs Pechstein, such as Peter
>> Mueller. There may be a line-up of people to the
>> kitchen sink now (those who need to publicly
>> wash their hands).
>
> This is, of course, the more shocking for us Norwegians.
>
> How could Mueller not know this? Does he care that little about his pupils?
>
>
> --------------
> T.B.Hansen
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





#44198 From: "T.B.Hansen" <speedskating@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 11:17 pm
Subject: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
skyggespill
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Irene Postmae:

> Why do you assume Mueller did not know?

If so:

If he knew, how could he continue the cooperation with Pechstein?

If he knew and continued the cooperation, how could he be re-hired by the NSF?

I'm not speaking of knowing since February; I'm speaking og knowing through his
work with Pechstein.

Some Norwegian commentators explain this with Pechstein not particpating in any
medical programs related to the NSF team; only participating in the teams
training camps. I'm not quite ready to buy this...


---------
TBH




#44195 From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
mfwarnaar
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
A sad day for speed skating it is...The full decision
(http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1477) gives some more
details.

On Feb 6, the day before the World Championships Allround, blood samples
were taken from all participants. The results for the Alleged Offender
(Pechstein,MW) gave rise to suspicion of blood doping, because it showed an
abnormal reticulocytes value of 3.5%, which is 1.1 %-point above the upper
normal limit applied by the ISU.

The next day, on February 7, 2009, a post race sample was taken from the
Alleged Offender after the 300 meter race (*I guess this was the 3000m,
MW*); the results again showed high values of percent reticulocytes (3.46%
and 3.34%). Consequently, an out-of-competition test was taken from the
Alleged Offender on February 18, 2009. From the values of these tests,
combined with the results on many earlier tests taken from the Alleged
Offender from the year 2000 on, the Complainant came to the Conclusion that
blood doping had taken place shortly before the 2009 ISU World Championships
Allround.

In the defense, Pechstein's lawyer made a lot of juridical complaints:
- All those blood samples from 2000 were not properly tested in a laboratory
- The ISU uses machines to do the blood testing, not via an acknowledged
laboratory
- Is blood screening the same as testing?
- No prohibited substance was found
- The machine was not working OK
- The data were not transferred properly from the machine to an Excel-sheet
- The excel sheet has other strange numbers and blanks spaces in it.
- In the complaint there are other data than in the Excel-sheet
- Her results from March 5, 2000 were not in the data base.
- Is Swiss law applicable?
etc etc.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Reticulocytes are immature red blood cells, typically composing about 1% of
the red cells in the human body. Reticulocytes develop and mature in the red
bone marrow and then circulate for about a day in the blood stream before
developing into mature red blood cells."

and

"The normal range of values for reticulocytes in the blood depends on the
clinical situation and the lab, but broadly speaking is 0.5% to 1.5%."

So, over 3% is a lot more than normal. However, some diseases could cause
this. The Panel proposed Pechstein to do a medical examination to see
whether she had some congenital blood disorder, but Pechstein rejected that.

So, they were abnormal blood values. Which means that in the other test, she
had normal blood values. So, she was OK then, you would guess. On the other
hand, if it is only 1 or 2 days that you can detect these reticulocytes,
wasn't Pechstein a bit too late this time....?

ISU tests with a machine and can check the results very quickly. So, who of
the testers told this secret to someone who could bring it to Ria Visser?
Isn't that breaching the rules to test doping?



----- Original Message -----
From: "Nils Lid Hjort" <nils@...>
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 7:46 PM
Subject: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...



Or, rather, say it is so, and tell us absolutely
everything about it, including how much, when,
with the help of whom, etc. That's the only way
we may still cling to an ounce of a vague hope
of living in a semi-clean world, to have More
Truths & Detailed Confessions on the table.
Were you doped when you won all these medals,
Mrs Pechstein? Just tell us.

There should be an Olympic Rule that whoever is
taken in doping should have all earlier Olympic
results (from medals to national and world records)
taken away from them, with Re-distribution of Medals
(if not wealth) etc. etc.

The story is highly unfortunate, of course, also
for people close to Mrs Pechstein, such as Peter
Mueller. There may be a line-up of people to the
kitchen sink now (those who need to publicly
wash their hands).

NLH
... from a weak internet line in his Torino
hotel room.

> Say it ain't so, Claudia...
>
> ------
>
> For immediate Release
> Lausanne, July 3, 2009
>
>
> German Speed Skater Ms. Claudia Pechstein found guilty of Anti-Doping
> Rules violation
>
>
> On July 1, 2009, the ISU Disciplinary Commission found Ms. Claudia
> Pechstein of Germany guilty of violation of rule 2.2 of the ISU
> Anti-Doping Rules ?oUse or Attempted Use by a Skater of a Prohibited
> Substance or a Prohibited Method?, and has taken the following
> Decision. The full opinion and decision is published on the ISU website
> www.isu.org.
>
> 1. Claudia Pechstein is declared responsible for an Anti-Doping violation
> under Article 2.2 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules by using the prohibited
> method of blood doping.
>
>
> 2. The results obtained by Claudia Pechstein in the 500 m and 3'000 m
> races at the World Allround Speed Skating Championships on February 7,
> 2009, are disqualified and her points, prices and medals forfeited.
>
> 3. A two years ineligibility, beginning on February 9, 2009, is imposed on
> Claudia Pechstein.
>
> 4. The Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft e.V. shall pay to the ISU the
> costs to be determined.
>
> 5. Each Party bears its own costs of proceedings and expenses. The present
> decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport,
> Lausanne, Switzerland, within 21 days upon receipt of the decision, in
> accordance with Article 24, paragraph 12 and Article 25 of the ISU
> Constitution and Rule 13.2.1 and 13.6 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules.
>
> The International Skating Union (ISU) had for many years a comprehensive
> Anti-Doping Program in compliance with the World Anti-Doping Code. This
> program incorporates both urine and blood testing to identify prohibited
> substances and also blood screening for hematological ?opassport?.
>
> The ISU blood screening program began in 1999 and uses a specific program
> called SAFE (Safe and Fair Event Testing) to monitor the Skaters blood
> parameters. Over the years, the ISU has performed more than 11?T000
> blood tests on approx. 1650 speed skaters and has created a hematological
> passport for each which details blood parameters over time. Long term
> monitoring allows the ISU Medical Commission to better detect anomalies or
> specific changes over time. In case of anomalies further targeted testing
> follows.
>
> According to the WADA Comment to Rule 3.2 of the WADA Code in force since
> January 1, 2009 (and adopted by the ISU - see ISU Communication 1546),
> conclusions drawn from the Skaters blood profile created from a series
> of tests may be used for establishing a violation of the ISU Anti-Doping
> Rules.
>
> Based on the evidence of Ms. Pechstein's profile which included abnormal
> values and abnormal changes of values in a series of tests (in particular
> in the tests conducted during the Essent ISU World Allround Championships
> held in Hamar on February 7-8, 2009) and in compliance with it?Ts
> responsibilities in the fight against doping, the ISU, on March 5, 2009
> filed charges of anti-doping rules violation against Ms. Pechstein with
> the ISU Disciplinary Commission. After written submissions of evidence,
> written expert opinions and arguments by both parties and by the German
> Federation (Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft e.V.), a two-day hearing
> was held by the ISU Disciplinary Commission in Bern, SWI on June 29-30,
> 2009. Witnesses and five experts gave testimony and thereafter, the ISU
> Disciplinary Commission rendered the above-mentioned Decision.
>
> The Decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport
> (CAS) in Lausanne, and accordingly, the ISU will not provide additional
> comment.
>
> The ISU remains committed to fight doping in order to ensure the respect
> of its rules and the ideals of the Olympic movement.
>
> ------------
>
> Wow.
>
> Paul
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






#44196 From: "Gerrit Stevens" <gerstenat@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 10:10 pm
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
gerritjstevens
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Marcel
What do you mean by this

BTW I just read that not only Ria Visser knew of this case but also Mart
Smeets.
My point is: why did it took so long (almost 5 months) before this case got
public.

Gerrit Stevens

Marcel Warmaar wrote:

ISU tests with a machine and can check the results very quickly. So, who of
the testers told this secret to someone who could bring it to Ria Visser?
Isn't that breaching the rules to test doping?






#44199 From: "Paul Hanlin Jr." <speedsk8fan@...>
Date: Fri Jul 3, 2009 11:30 pm
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
speedsk8fan
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
We have her side from Agence-France Presse:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iZk32lny_yJzux9ZkLvifjIxXEHA

Paging Robert L. Ripley - believe this, or not.

---

German speedskate star Claudia Pechstein on Friday hotly proclaimed
her innocence after the International Skating Union handed her a
two-year ban for blood doping which would force her to miss next year's
Winter Games in Vancouver.
The blood profile of the multiple
Olympic and world champion showed abnormal variations in tests, the ISU
found following a two-day hearing.
The variations showed up in
particular following the World Allround Championships in February and
Pechstein, 37, will now be banned until February 9, 2011 - but through
her lawyer she said she will appeal against the suspension to the Court
of Arbitration for Sport."Pechstein rejects the accusation of
blood doping," her lawyer, Marius Breucker, said in a joint statement
with German Speedskating Federation chairman Gerd Heinze.
"She
has been tested intensively in competition and in training these past
years without any doping substance being found," the statement added. "During
the procedure before the ISU experts judged the data unreliable owing
to patent errors" and, during the tests, "only the reticulocyte
(immature red blood cells) levels were abnormally high. The other blood
parametres, such as haemoglobin and the hematocritic levels were
normal," the statement maintained.
"Illness or blood
abnormalities are possible explanations for an abnormally high
reticulocyte reading. Pechstein proposes to submit herself to tests for
these possible anomalies."Breucker and Heinze added she would
also agree to "several weeks of surveillance with blood and EPO testing
in order to prove her innocence."
And the statement concluded:
"This is as far as we are aware the first time there has been a
suspension founded on indirect proof, that of a sole blood value. No
banned substance has been found."
Paul





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




#44200 From: Irene Postma <speedskating@...>
Date: Sat Jul 4, 2009 7:36 am
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
bachliefhebber
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
What I recall:

There was a flu that had affected e.g. Daniela Anschtz. Then Claudia
started and skated the first day, but it was not as good as expected!
(with doping you would expect she would be better).
That evening I saw her mother in the hall of the hotel, who told me that
Claudia had a fever and that it looked like she was not going to start the
next day.

If someone has a heavy flu, could/would that not result in abnormal blood
values?

In that case it's logical that neither Pechstein nor Mueller knew...
So EITHER Pechstein AND some medical person and possibly coach are guilty
Or the blood problem was caused by her having a flu.


Op 04-07-2009 01:30, schreef Paul Hanlin Jr. <speedsk8fan@...>:

--

Irene P.

o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o
o.o.o.o.o.o.o MAY GOD BLESS YOU o.o.o.o.o.o.o
o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o.o






#44201 From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
Date: Sat Jul 4, 2009 10:04 am
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
mfwarnaar
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Irene Postma" <speedskating@...>
To: "Skate" <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...


What I recall:

There was a flu that had affected e.g. Daniela Anschtz. Then Claudia
started and skated the first day, but it was not as good as expected!
(with doping you would expect she would be better).
That evening I saw her mother in the hall of the hotel, who told me that
Claudia had a fever and that it looked like she was not going to start the
next day.

If someone has a heavy flu, could/would that not result in abnormal blood
values?

* No, that possibility was ruled out. See point 33 in the full report. The
values that were found in Pechstein's blood had increased so much that the
only possible alternative for blood doping was a congenital blood disorder.
Pechstein was offered to have a medical examination to prove that she had a
congenital blood disorder and she was allowed to skate before ending that
examination. However, she refused that offer. Although the DESG-reaction
says something different (see www.desg.de)

In that case it's logical that neither Pechstein nor Mueller knew...
So EITHER Pechstein AND some medical person and possibly coach are guilty
Or the blood problem was caused by her having a flu.

* The ISU tests with a machine and knows the outcomes very soon. I think
they give the results quite soon to the skaters. Like: everything OK. As
from former doping cases, it is known suspected results are communicated
quite soon, mostly with a request to withdraw. But I don't know to whom? the
skater? the coach? the federation official? Did Pechstein know the result of
that Friday-sample before she started on Saturday? Taking the risk that
another blood sample would be taken with showed the same pattern ? And of
course, she was very upset when she found out later. It is not strange she
felt empty in the weeks after and decided not to go America. Her definite
decision not to start was on March, 5, the day that the official complaint
arrived at the DESG.

The DESG-defence seems to concentrate on juridical matters and to state that
she was never positive in the past (of course not; that is why these
Hamar-values were so strange).

It would be wiser for Pechstein to be transparant. What has she been doing
in that week before the WCh allround? Between the World Cup in Erfurt and
the WCh in Hamar (where she is living?). What happened after that first
blood sample? Who knew when? If someone else is to blame, nail him down.
Otherwise, she will be the only one who suffers.

The ISU is very transparant in its operating by putting the whole verdict on
the web. Which gives it a lot of credibility IMO. It would benefit Pechstein
if she put her version in public, with which she could take away the
suspicion that something is still hidden. That is what is happening in
cycling nowadays and that is why the mess is still not cleaned there.

Marcel




#44206 From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
Date: Sun Jul 5, 2009 7:12 am
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
mfwarnaar
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a very neat interview on German Television (why don't we have such
quality here?) Claudia Pechstein was able to express her side of the story.
I saw a strong, self-assured woman without nerves. We know her that way. Her
expression was convincing.
She assured that she had never taken doping and she apologized for lying
about her illness for withdrawing in Hamar.

She answered some questions I had raised below.
- She knew about the friday blood test on Saturday. On Saturday evening,
team leader Helge Jasch aksed her to come and gave her the outcomes.
Together with an ISU-proposal: Or to withdraw because of illness with the
promise to settle it later out of the publicity or to have an immediate,
preventive suspension (publicly announced of course). Being so overwhelmed,
they chose for the first option.
- Between her lines, I got the impression that the team doctor checked on
hemaglobin and hematocrit, but not on the reticulocytes value.
- The DESG-president, who was also interviewed, spoke of another proposal in
the course of the process. If Pechstein would end her career, the case could
be closed.
- Pechstein declined the offer for more medical checks, as her team was
convinced they would win the case at that point of time.
- A farmacologist said that he never had seen such high values and that
looking for a medical explanation would be pointless.
- Pechstein's lawyer talked about the defense they will be using: - there
will be a medical check; is it possible to suspend someone on indices only?;
is it OK that a skater should prove his innocence, instead of the ISU having
to prove the guilt?

So, IMO, a very juridical point of view. Suppose they win that and Pechstein
is released on such a minor detail. Could we be happy about that? How would
we look at her during the Vancouver Olympics? The DESG is right behind her.
It takes the risk that the supsicion on Pechstein will be transferred to the
whole German federation. Bad as it is, a lot of parallels with cycling a
couple of years ago come into my mind....

Marcel


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...>
To: <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Irene Postma" <speedskating@...>
> To: "Skate" <Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
>
>
> What I recall:
>
> There was a flu that had affected e.g. Daniela Ansch?tz. Then Claudia
> started and skated the first day, but it was not as good as expected!
> (with doping you would expect she would be better).
> That evening I saw her mother in the hall of the hotel, who told me that
> Claudia had a fever and that it looked like she was not going to start the
> next day.
>
> If someone has a heavy flu, could/would that not result in abnormal blood
> values?
>
> * No, that possibility was ruled out. See point 33 in the full report. The
> values that were found in Pechstein's blood had increased so much that the
> only possible alternative for blood doping was a congenital blood
> disorder.
> Pechstein was offered to have a medical examination to prove that she had
> a
> congenital blood disorder and she was allowed to skate before ending that
> examination. However, she refused that offer. Although the DESG-reaction
> says something different (see www.desg.de)
>
> In that case it's logical that neither Pechstein nor Mueller knew...
> So EITHER Pechstein AND some medical person and possibly coach are guilty
> Or the blood problem was caused by her having a flu.
>
> * The ISU tests with a machine and knows the outcomes very soon. I think
> they give the results quite soon to the skaters. Like: everything OK. As
> from former doping cases, it is known suspected results are communicated
> quite soon, mostly with a request to withdraw. But I don't know to whom?
> the
> skater? the coach? the federation official? Did Pechstein know the result
> of
> that Friday-sample before she started on Saturday? Taking the risk that
> another blood sample would be taken with showed the same pattern ? And of
> course, she was very upset when she found out later. It is not strange she
> felt empty in the weeks after and decided not to go America. Her definite
> decision not to start was on March, 5, the day that the official complaint
> arrived at the DESG.
>
> The DESG-defence seems to concentrate on juridical matters and to state
> that
> she was never positive in the past (of course not; that is why these
> Hamar-values were so strange).
>
> It would be wiser for Pechstein to be transparant. What has she been doing
> in that week before the WCh allround? Between the World Cup in Erfurt and
> the WCh in Hamar (where she is living?). What happened after that first
> blood sample? Who knew when? If someone else is to blame, nail him down.
> Otherwise, she will be the only one who suffers.
>
> The ISU is very transparant in its operating by putting the whole verdict
> on
> the web. Which gives it a lot of credibility IMO. It would benefit
> Pechstein
> if she put her version in public, with which she could take away the
> suspicion that something is still hidden. That is what is happening in
> cycling nowadays and that is why the mess is still not cleaned there.
>
> Marcel
>
>




#44207 From: "Tim Wolfkamp" <twolfkamp@...>
Date: Sun Jul 5, 2009 1:54 pm
Subject: RE: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
twolfkamp@...
Send Email Send Email
 


I read a lot of dope accused sporters trying to defend themselves, but
reading her website post (in german), following her 15 years on tele,

The Germans vs dope relation,



My "onderbuik gevoel" says NOT guilty at least not deliberately





Regards

Tim,





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




#44208 From: "Sveinung Hem" <svehem@...>
Date: Sun Jul 5, 2009 3:35 pm
Subject: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
svehem
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@...> wrote:


> She assured that she had never taken doping and she apologized for lying
> about her illness for withdrawing in Hamar.
>

> - She knew about the friday blood test on Saturday. On Saturday evening,
> team leader Helge Jasch aksed her to come and gave her the outcomes.
> Together with an ISU-proposal: Or to withdraw because of illness with the
> promise to settle it later out of the publicity or to have an immediate,
> preventive suspension (publicly announced of course). Being so overwhelmed,
> they chose for the first option.

> - The DESG-president, who was also interviewed, spoke of another proposal in
> the course of the process. If Pechstein would end her career, the case could
> be closed.


Considering what has obviously happened in this case - how it has all been
handled, I simply can't avoid asking myself the following question: What is
REALLY going on in the corridors and behind closed doors in general. What is
there that the public never gets to know anything about? To what extent can
explanations from skaters, federations or medical personnel as to withdrawals -
or retirements for that matter - be trusted?
At first it may seem that "offering" Claudia the opportunity to withdraw "due
to illness" was an initiative taken to protect HER. However, I would say that
the ISU, DESG and the Hamar arrangement committee had their own interests to
take care of - business interests. It would not be good for the sport - neither
the business part of it nor the general publicity - having cases of doping or
doping suspicions revaled in front of crowded stands and during TV-coverage from
a major event. There IS indeed a parallell to the Anzhelika Kotyuga case some
years ago - as to the way things were done. Her positive test was from a world
cup event in Heerenveen. But the announcement and verdict from the ISU weren't
presented until about half a year later. Is it a deliberate strategy to publish
information on doping cases in speed skating in summer simply to minimize the
general attention to it from the public?
Andrew Jennings, long time IOC critic, has claimed that the committee isn't
really interested in fighing against doping - simply because actual cases would
destroy the image of the Olympic Games and of a "pure, ideal and clean" sport.
In one of his books Jennings even says that the IOC didn't really want to
publish the positive test result of Ben Johnson back in -88. But, allegedly, a
laboratory assistant had given the information to the press, so there was no way
it could be held back.


> - Pechstein's lawyer talked about the defense they will be using: - there
> will be a medical check; is it possible to suspend someone on indices only?;
> is it OK that a skater should prove his innocence, instead of the ISU having
> to prove the guilt?
>
> So, IMO, a very juridical point of view. Suppose they win that and Pechstein
> is released on such a minor detail. Could we be happy about that? How would
> we look at her during the Vancouver Olympics? The DESG is right behind her.
> It takes the risk that the supsicion on Pechstein will be transferred to the
> whole German federation. Bad as it is, a lot of parallels with cycling a
> couple of years ago come into my mind....
>
> Marcel
>
>


What I would like to say is that any doping case - alleged or confirmed - is
casting long shadows, both backwards and sideways. Unfortunately.




Greetings
Sveinung.




#44203 From: "Sveinung Hem" <svehem@...>
Date: Sat Jul 4, 2009 3:53 pm
Subject: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
svehem
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, Irene Postma <speedskating@...> wrote:
>
> What I recall:
>
> That evening I saw her mother in the hall of the hotel, who told me that
> Claudia had a fever and that it looked like she was not going to start the
> next day.
>

> So EITHER Pechstein AND some medical person and possibly coach are guilty
> Or the blood problem was caused by her having a flu.
>

>
> Irene P.
>



Claudia now states herself on her own website that her withdrawal from the
second day of the WCh was NOT due to illness.


http://www.claudiapechstein.de/index2.shtml



Claudia, hast Du Dir wirklich nichts vorzuwerfen? Diese Frage muss ich mir
natrlich jetzt hufig stellen lassen. Und ja, ich habe mir tatschlich etwas
vorzuwerfen. Und zwar, dass ich mich auf den Kuhhandel" der ISU eingelassen
habe, der mir zur Halbzeit der Mehrkampf-WM in Hamar unterbreitet wurde. Wenn
Du dich krank meldest, dann werden wir die ffentlichkeit nicht informieren. Und
die ganze Angelegenheit kann in aller Ruhe geklrt werden" wurde mir
vorgeschlagen, als mir in der Nacht zum 8. Februar 2009 die Nachricht der
gemessenen erhhten Retikulozytenwerte berbracht wurde. Meine Angst, ffentlich
des Dopings beschuldigt zu werden und die Hoffnung, die Angelegenheit ohne
Aufsehen klren zu knnen, waren strker als mein Verlangen es heraus zu
schreien, unschuldig des Dopings bezichtigt zu werden. Heute wei ich, dass dies
ein Fehler war. Ein Fehler vor allem deshalb, weil ich die ffentlichkeit und
meine Fans belogen habe. Dafr mchte ich mich entschuldigen. Erst musste eine
angebliche Erkltung herhalten, um mein Fehlen bei der WM zu entschuldigen.
Anschlieend waren ein hartnckiger Virus und zu guter Letzt der daraus
angeblich resultierende Trainingsrckstand die Ausreden fr das Auslassen der
restlichen Saisonwettkmpfe. Das alles hat weh getan. Nicht nur mir, sondern
auch den anderen, die Bescheid wussten und gegenber der Presse immer wieder auf
eine unserer Ausflchte zurckgriffen. Fr uns alle waren es Notlgen, verbunden
mit der Hoffnung, vor einem objektiven ISU-Gericht, die ffentliche,
unbegrndete Dopingdiskussion abwenden zu knnen. Und wie heit es so schn: Die
Hoffnung stirbt zu letzt. Jetzt ist sie tatschlich gestorben und mit ihr mein
guter Ruf. Beides hat mir die ISU genommen. Meine Ehre knnen sie mir allerdings
nicht stehlen.



Meaning:


Claudia, is there really nothing that you are to be blamed for? Of course I
ask myself this question quite often. And yes, I really do have something to
blame myself for - the fact that I agreed on a "horse trade" with ISU, presented
to me after the first day of the Hamar allround world championships: "If you
report to be ill, we won't inform the public. And the whole thing can be cleared
up in silence." This was suggested to me as I was brought the news the night
before February 8th concerning the high reticulocytes value measured. My fear of
being accused of doping in public and the hope of having this affair solved
without making any sensation out of it were stronger than my urge to scream out
my innocence as to the doping accusations. Now I know I made a mistake. A
mistake most of all because I have lied in public and to my fans. For this I
want to beg for forgivness. First allegedly having caught a cold had to serve as
an excuse for my absence from the WCh. Then there was a heavy virus infection,
and, as a consequence of this, an alleged setback as to training was meant to
explain why I skipped the rest of the season's events. It has all been painful.
Not only for me, but also for the others who knew better and towards the press
repeatedly stuck to one of our excuses. For all of us these were white lies,
linked to the hope that we would have the opportunity to strike back against the
public, unfounded doping discussions in an objective ISU court. And as it says
so beautifully: Hope will die in the end. Now it has indeed died, and with it my
good reputation. Both taken away from me by ISU. They can't steal my honour,
though.




Sveinung Hem




#44204 From: "T.B.Hansen" <speedskating@...>
Date: Sat Jul 4, 2009 5:00 pm
Subject: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
skyggespill
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
With my personal experience with the art of medicine and blood tests, I'm the
first one to believe any dsuggestion that tests might not be neither accurate
nor definitive and that the conclusions will differ with different views.

Let's hope this can be sorted out, and that no decisions will be taken on the
basis of dogmatics.


-----------
TBH




#44202 From: Mark Chrysler <mchrysler@...>
Date: Sat Jul 4, 2009 5:14 am
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
ergoidrt
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
No certified lab?  No certified results...wtf!

On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Paul Hanlin Jr.<speedsk8fan@...> wrote:
>
>
> We have her side from Agence-France Presse:
>
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iZk32lny_yJzux9ZkLvifjIxXEHA
>
> Paging Robert L. Ripley - believe this, or not.
>
> ---
>
> German speedskate star Claudia Pechstein on Friday hotly proclaimed
> her innocence after the International Skating Union handed her a
> two-year ban for blood doping which would force her to miss next year's
> Winter Games in Vancouver.
> The blood profile of the multiple
> Olympic and world champion showed abnormal variations in tests, the ISU
> found following a two-day hearing.
> The variations showed up in
> particular following the World Allround Championships in February and
> Pechstein, 37, will now be banned until February 9, 2011 - but through
> her lawyer she said she will appeal against the suspension to the Court
> of Arbitration for Sport."Pechstein rejects the accusation of
> blood doping," her lawyer, Marius Breucker, said in a joint statement
> with German Speedskating Federation chairman Gerd Heinze.
> "She
> has been tested intensively in competition and in training these past
> years without any doping substance being found," the statement added.
> "During
> the procedure before the ISU experts judged the data unreliable owing
> to patent errors" and, during the tests, "only the reticulocyte
> (immature red blood cells) levels were abnormally high. The other blood
> parametres, such as haemoglobin and the hematocritic levels were
> normal," the statement maintained.
> "Illness or blood
> abnormalities are possible explanations for an abnormally high
> reticulocyte reading. Pechstein proposes to submit herself to tests for
> these possible anomalies."Breucker and Heinze added she would
> also agree to "several weeks of surveillance with blood and EPO testing
> in order to prove her innocence."
> And the statement concluded:
> "This is as far as we are aware the first time there has been a
> suspension founded on indirect proof, that of a sole blood value. No
> banned substance has been found."
> Paul
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



#44209 From: Chris Callis <speedycallis_is_1@...>
Date: Sun Jul 5, 2009 9:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
speedycallis...
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Much as I stay out of the yahoo group's lime light. I find it unfair to cast a
shadow on an athlete about doping. Personally I feel that everyone Hemoglobin
and hematocrit should be advertised. Since it is genetic, whats the harm of
publicizing the each persons genetic blood signature. Let people judge for
themselves. I don't think science lies, but big jumps are not a normal under a
load of training. I know if you are dehydrated, this can influence a higher
number. My coaches always had me drink tons of water so my hematocrit was
lower. When I came though the magic number was "55", I was always 53-55
anything over that we were not allowed to race. I can only remember one time a
Russian skater was over this magic number, and he was not allowed to race that
particular world cup.

Having said this, random test should be done on teams not individuals, because
the sport is moving in that direction anyway.

I think for each athlete that gets caught dropping or accused of doping, it
brings an embarrassment on them, country and team.If ISU holds accountable the
team as a whole, then don't you think that there would be less to monitor from
the ISU. With each team member watching another, I think everyone would police
their own team. Instead when an athlete gets caught, they have to fly solo and
anyone that stands next to them becomes tarnished too. Atleast if it is a team
problem, she would have some others fighting it with her.

Rather Pechstein is Innocent or Guilty, she won't be the same type of athlete
after this violation. That type of speculation is tarnishing and even if she
wins another metal, that being found innocent, that speculation will still be
there.

I hope she is innocent, though I know she will have a tough road after this
ordeal. I always admired her as an athlete. I hate seeing that any type of
blood doping case made it into this beautiful sport.

-Chris Callis

--- On Sun, 7/5/09, Sveinung Hem <svehem@...> wrote:

From: Sveinung Hem <svehem@...>
Subject: [Skate] Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
To: Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 11:35 AM

















--- In Speed_skating@ yahoogroups. com, "Marcel Warnaar" <mwarnaar@.. .>
wrote:



> She assured that she had never taken doping and she apologized for lying

> about her illness for withdrawing in Hamar.

>



> - She knew about the friday blood test on Saturday. On Saturday evening,

> team leader Helge Jasch aksed her to come and gave her the outcomes.

> Together with an ISU-proposal: Or to withdraw because of illness with the

> promise to settle it later out of the publicity or to have an immediate,

> preventive suspension (publicly announced of course). Being so overwhelmed,

> they chose for the first option.



> - The DESG-president, who was also interviewed, spoke of another proposal in

> the course of the process. If Pechstein would end her career, the case could

> be closed.



Considering what has obviously happened in this case - how it has all been
handled, I simply can't avoid asking myself the following question: What is
REALLY going on in the corridors and behind closed doors in general. What is
there that the public never gets to know anything about? To what extent can
explanations from skaters, federations or medical personnel as to withdrawals -
or retirements for that matter - be trusted?

At first it may seem that "offering" Claudia the opportunity to withdraw "due
to illness" was an initiative taken to protect HER. However, I would say that
the ISU, DESG and the Hamar arrangement committee had their own interests to
take care of - business interests. It would not be good for the sport - neither
the business part of it nor the general publicity - having cases of doping or
doping suspicions revaled in front of crowded stands and during TV-coverage from
a major event. There IS indeed a parallell to the Anzhelika Kotyuga case some
years ago - as to the way things were done. Her positive test was from a world
cup event in Heerenveen. But the announcement and verdict from the ISU weren't
presented until about half a year later. Is it a deliberate strategy to publish
information on doping cases in speed skating in summer simply to minimize the
general attention to it from the public?

Andrew Jennings, long time IOC critic, has claimed that the committee isn't
really interested in fighing against doping - simply because actual cases would
destroy the image of the Olympic Games and of a "pure, ideal and clean" sport.
In one of his books Jennings even says that the IOC didn't really want to
publish the positive test result of Ben Johnson back in -88. But, allegedly, a
laboratory assistant had given the information to the press, so there was no way
it could be held back.





> - Pechstein's lawyer talked about the defense they will be using: - there

> will be a medical check; is it possible to suspend someone on indices only?;

> is it OK that a skater should prove his innocence, instead of the ISU having

> to prove the guilt?

>

> So, IMO, a very juridical point of view. Suppose they win that and Pechstein

> is released on such a minor detail. Could we be happy about that? How would

> we look at her during the Vancouver Olympics? The DESG is right behind her.

> It takes the risk that the supsicion on Pechstein will be transferred to the

> whole German federation. Bad as it is, a lot of parallels with cycling a

> couple of years ago come into my mind....

>

> Marcel

>

>



What I would like to say is that any doping case - alleged or confirmed - is
casting long shadows, both backwards and sideways. Unfortunately.



Greetings

Sveinung.































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




#44210 From: "Teshawn LeVarr Edmonds" <TeshawnEdmonds@...>
Date: Mon Jul 6, 2009 1:26 am
Subject: Re: Claudia Pechstein suspended 2 years for doping...
teshawnedmonds
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In Speed_skating@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Hanlin Jr." <speedsk8fan@...> wrote:
>
>
> Say it ain't so, Claudia...
>
> ------
>
> For immediate Release
> Lausanne, July 3, 2009
>
>  
> German Speed Skater Ms. Claudia Pechstein found guilty of Anti-Doping Rules
violation
>  
>
> On July 1, 2009, the ISU Disciplinary Commission found Ms. Claudia
> Pechstein of Germany guilty of violation of rule 2.2 of the ISU
> Anti-Doping Rules “Use or Attempted Use by a Skater of a Prohibited
Substance or a Prohibited Method”,  and has taken the following Decision. The
full opinion and decision is published on the ISU website www.isu.org.
>  
> 1. Claudia Pechstein is declared responsible for an Anti-Doping violation
> under Article 2.2 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules by using the prohibited
> method of blood doping.
>
>
> 2. The results obtained by Claudia Pechstein in the 500 m and 3'000 m
> races at the World Allround Speed Skating Championships on February 7,
> 2009, are disqualified and her points, prices and medals forfeited.
>
> 3. A two years ineligibility, beginning on February 9, 2009, is imposed on
Claudia Pechstein.
>
> 4. The Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft e.V. shall pay to the ISU the
costs to be determined.
>
> 5. Each Party bears its own costs of proceedings and expenses. The present
decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, Lausanne,
Switzerland, within 21 days upon receipt of the decision, in accordance with
Article 24, paragraph 12 and Article 25 of the ISU Constitution and Rule 13.2.1
and 13.6 of the ISU Anti-Doping Rules.
>  
> The International Skating Union (ISU) had for many years a comprehensive
> Anti-Doping Program in compliance with the World Anti-Doping Code. This
> program incorporates both urine and blood testing to identify prohibited
substances and also blood screening for hematological “passport”.
>  
> The ISU blood screening program began in 1999 and uses a specific program
> called SAFE (Safe and Fair Event Testing) to monitor the Skaters blood
> parameters. Over the years, the ISU has performed more than 11’000
> blood tests on approx. 1650 speed skaters and has created a hematological
passport for each which details blood parameters over time. Long term monitoring
allows the ISU Medical Commission to better detect anomalies or specific changes
over time. In case of anomalies further targeted testing follows.
>  
> According to the WADA Comment to Rule 3.2 of the WADA Code in force since
January 1, 2009 (and adopted by the ISU - see ISU Communication 1546),
> conclusions drawn from the Skaters blood profile created from a series
> of tests may be used for establishing a violation of the ISU Anti-Doping
Rules.
>  
> Based on the evidence of Ms. Pechstein's profile which included abnormal
> values and abnormal changes of values in a series of tests (in particular in
the tests conducted during the Essent ISU World Allround Championships held in
Hamar on February 7-8, 2009) and in compliance with it’s responsibilities in
the fight against doping, the ISU, on March 5, 2009 filed charges of anti-doping
rules violation against Ms. Pechstein with the ISU Disciplinary Commission.
After written submissions of evidence, written expert opinions and arguments by
both parties and by the German Federation (Deutsche Eisschnelllauf-Gemeinschaft
e.V.), a two-day hearing was held by the ISU Disciplinary Commission in Bern,
SWI on June 29-30, 2009. Witnesses and five experts gave testimony and
thereafter, the ISU Disciplinary Commission rendered the above-mentioned
Decision.  
>  
> The Decision is subject to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport
> (CAS) in Lausanne, and accordingly, the ISU will not provide additional
> comment.
>  
> The ISU remains committed to fight doping in order to ensure the respect of
its rules and the ideals of the Olympic movement. 
>
> ------------
>
> Wow.
>
> Paul
>


Pechstein is gone and she can forget going for her sixth Olympic Winter Games
unless she appeals to the CAS. As a matter of fact she can retire right now,
rather than fight the doping charges.

It's up to Sablikova, Friesinger and/or Wust or anyone else to pickup the
enormous load Pechstein left behind only if she retires, or has her doping
charge upheld.




 
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