Here are the club & benefit shows that I know about?going on?this weekend (May
1-3)?across the USA...


The 72nd annual Cleveland Skating Club Ice Show is at 7:30 tonight (May 1) and
tomorrow night (Saturday, May 2) -- for more info, go to:
http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/et-event/117854/20090501-the-72nd-annual\
-cleveland-skating-club-ice-show-5-6-7-8-broadway-our-way
From the cleveland.com site:
<< Brother and sister skaters John and Sinead Kerr headline the Cleveland
Skating Club's ice show this weekend at 2500 Kemper Road., Shaker Heights. Adam
Rippon and Anna Madorsky will also appear on the ice. For information and
tickets, call (216) 791-2800, ext. 255. >>


Already publicized here earlier: "Stand Up For Life" Saturday, May 2nd in West
Orange, New Jersey to benefit the Susan G. Komen for the Cure foundation (and
honoring Lisa Spitz)?-- link to the promo flyer:
http://www.skatingfantasy.com/site/Stand_up_for_life.html
Related article:
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090430&content_id=64380&vkey=ic\
e_news
<< The show, hosted by JoJo Starbuck, will feature a live band, The Infernos,
and performances by skaters such as Colin Pennington, Shaun Rogers, Tamar Katz,
Angela Maxwell and Kristin Fraser and Igor Lukanin. 1994 Olympic gold medalist
and 1993 world champion Oksana Baiul will perform her famous "Swan" program in
tribute to her late mother. >>?


From?my?"Braden Overett retires from competition"?post back on April 22nd:
<< ...Fortunately, his show skating prowess will continue! Although his name
currently is not listed on the DU site, Overett reportedly will be performing
once again at his alma mater University of Denver's annual ice show on Saturday
May 2 at 7 pm and Sunday May 3 at 1 pm. This year's show is called "Puttin' On
The Hits" -- for more info:
http://www.recreation.du.edu/ice/?sec=co&main=5&main2=89&main3=0
>>


Ryan Bradley headlines "Showtime on Ice" May 1-3 at the South Suburban Arena in
Centennial, Colorado -- link to promo flyer:
http://www.coloradoskatingclub.net/Colorado_Skating_Club/Promotional_Flyer_files\
/SOI%20flyer.pdf


From a local article about Taylor Firth's starring role in the "Ice Castles"
movie remake: http://post-journal.com/page/content.detail/id/528999.html
Info on the 2 shows in Jamestown, NY on Saturday, May 2nd:
http://www.jamestownskatingclub.com/excellence/excellence.html


If anyone attends any of these shows, feel free to post your impressions,
highlights, detailed reviews, photo links, etc.! :)

--Sylvia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

According to this article from La Gazetta dello Sport, Anna cappellinni and Luca
Lanotte are moving from Milan to Lyon to train with Muriel Zazoui:

http://tinyurl.com/d3m6rw

Joseph

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "kgorkrj" <Kathy.Godfrey@...> wrote:

> In other pairs-related news, the male half of the
> new US Adult Championship level pairs winners
> was the 2000 US National bronze medalist in pairs
> (with a different partner).
>
>
<http://www.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090426&content_id=64295&vkey=i\
ce_news>
>

I phrased this badly.  Sargent/Joeright recently
became the 2009 Champions, but they aren't exactly
new--they successfully defended their 2008 title.

>>Kathy

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "Angeli Wahlstedt" <angeli@...> wrote:
>
> It's pretty sad when you see a former world champion end up in the Envelope
> C team.
>

Collectively, I think it's at least as sad that only
two US ladies made the cut to Envelope A, and Czisny
is there by virtue of being US champion.  Flatt's the
only US lady who had consistently decent results this
past season.

>>Kathy

So this is Don's 4th partner since he took up pairs in 2002
(after Jacqueline Matson, Marina Kolomey,
and, this past season, Jennifer Brunn),
unless I've lost count.

Wonder if Vise/Baldwin will try for the quad throw salchow?

USFSA news item on Trent/Vise split at
<http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=42960>

In other pairs-related news, the male half of the
new US Adult Championship level pairs winners
was the 2000 US National bronze medalist in pairs
(with a different partner).

<http://www.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090426&content_id=64295&vkey=i\
ce_news>

>>Kathy

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "azcalder" <azcalder@...> wrote:
>
> According to Icenetwork.com, Trent plans to retire, while Tiffany will skate
with Don Baldwin.  They'll be coached by Jill Watson in Peoria, AZ IIRC, John
and Rena were with Jill before moving back to Los Angeles.
> ....and the Baldwin beat goes on.
>
> Anne
>

According to Icenetwork.com, Trent plans to retire, while Tiffany will skate
with Don Baldwin.  They'll be coached by Jill Watson in Peoria, AZ IIRC, John
and Rena were with Jill before moving back to Los Angeles.
....and the Baldwin beat goes on.

Anne

Taken from Titan TV for the week of Sat. 5/2/09 through Fri. 5/8/09.

All times Eastern; please doublecheck your local listings
FSCA is Fox College Sports Atlantic,
FSCP is Fox College Sports Pacific.
CSNNE is Comcast Sports Network New England--it's possible
the programs listed here may appear on sports-related channels
in other Comcast areas, but Comcast listings are
not very reliable.

I'm not sure why some of the day 3 highlights listings have a 1-hour
running time and other 2 hours, although I suspect it's just a
mistake.  One airing listing at two hours was in fact just the
one-hour show followed by an hour of non-Universiaade coverage.

Thu  Apr  30  Winter Universiade Day 3 highlights     FCSP 9-10 p.m. EDT [264]
               [Harbin, CHN, 2/18-2/28/09][men's SP]
Fri  May  1   2009 Eastern Sectionals                 CSNNE 1-2:30 p.m. EDT [52]
               [Nancy Kerrigan's Word of Skating]
               [Boston, MA, 11/11-11/15/2008][ladies, pairs] (repeat
from CN8 12/12/08)
Sat  May  2   "Blades of Glory" (2007 movie w/ S. Hamilton) HBOZ 5:25-7 p.m. EDT
Sun  May  3   "Blades of Glory" (2007 movie w/ S. Hamilton) HBOZ
mid-1:35 a.m. EDT
Sun  May  3   2009 Eastern Sectionals                 CSNNE 3-4:30 p.m. EDT [52]
               [Nancy Kerrigan's Word of Skating]
               [Boston, MA, 11/11-11/15/2008][men, dance] (repeat from
CN8 12/19/08)
Sun  May  3   2009 Eastern Sectionals                 CSNNE 4:30-6 p.m. EDT [52]
               [Nancy Kerrigan's Word of Skating]
               [Boston, MA, 11/11-11/15/2008][ladies, pairs] (repeat
from CN8 12/12/08)
Mon  May  4   "Malcolm in the Middle" with quad-roller "free skate" FX
3-3:30 p.m. EST
               [repeat from FOX 7/23/00, "Rollerskates"]
Mon  May  4   "Blades of Glory" (2007 movie w/ S. Hamilton) HBO 5:15-7 p.m. EDT
Thu  May  7   "Blades of Glory" (2007 movie w/ S. Hamilton) HBO 8-9:45 a.m. EDT
Fri  May  8   "Impact: Stories of Survival" (includes Paul Binnebose)
DiscoveryHealth 5-6 a.m. EDT
                "Martial Artist on Fire" [repeat from 4/9/04]
Sun  May  10  "Blades of Glory" (2007 movie w/ S. Hamilton) HBO 1-2:45 p.m. EDT

>>Kathy

It's pretty sad when you see a former world champion end up in the Envelope
C team.

-- Angeli Wahlstedt


-----Original Message-----
From: SkateFans@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SkateFans@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of denbydilbert2001
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:30 PM
To: SkateFans@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SkateFans] Press Release - U.S. FIGURE SKATING ANNOUNCES 2009-10
TEAM ENVELOPES

NEWS RELEASE
20 First Street - Colorado Springs, CO  80906
Phone: (719) 635-5200 - Fax: (719) 635-9548
Web site: www.usfigureskating.org


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Media contact:  Scottie Bibb - (719) 635-5200

U.S. FIGURE SKATING ANNOUNCES 2009-10 TEAM ENVELOPES

- 102 ATHLETES NAMED TO TEAM USA -

Colorado Springs, Colo. (April 28, 2009) - U.S. Figure Skating announced
today the individuals and teams that will compose the A, B and C team
envelopes for the 2009-10 season. Those athletes assigned to the Reserve
team envelope will be announced at a later date.

The envelope level is primarily determined by the athlete's performance in
international and U.S. Figure Skating competitions during the previous
season, and is used to determine funding levels. It is not used as a strict
guideline for selections to international competitions.

Team A

Ladies: Alissa Czisny, Rachael Flatt

Men: Jeremy Abbott, Evan Lysacek, Brandon Mroz, Johnny Weir

Pairs: Caydee Denney and Jeremy Barrett, Keauna McLaughlin and Rockne
Brubaker

Dance: Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto, Meryl Davis and Charlie White

Team B

Ladies: Becky Bereswill, Alexe Gilles, DeeDee Leng, Mirai Nagasu, Ashley
Wagner, Caroline Zhang

Men: Ryan Bradley, Stephen Carriere, Richard Dornbush, Armin Mahbanoozadeh,
Ross Miner, Adam Rippon

Pairs: Marissa Castelli and Simon Shnapir, Brooke Castile and Ben Okolski,
Amanda Evora and Mark Ladwig, Rena Inoue and John Baldwin, Tracy Tanovich
and Michael Chau

Dance: Madison Chock and Greg Zuerlein, Madison Hubbell and Keiffer Hubbell,
Kim Navarro and Brent Bommentre, Emily Samuelson and Evan Bates, Maia
Shibutani and Alex Shibutani

Team C

Ladies: Kiri Baga, Melissa Bulanhagui, Amanda Dobbs, Christina Gao,
Kristiene Gong, Katrina Hacker, Ellie Kawamura, Bebe Liang, Mary Beth
Marley, Angela Maxwell, Kimmie Meissner, Kristine Musademba, Brittney Rizo,
Angela Wang, Kendall Wyckoff

Men: Jason Brown, Steven Evans, Joshua Farris, Grant Hochstein, Alexander
Johnson, Austin Kanallakan, Keegan Messing, Curran Oi, Shaun Rogers

Pairs: Molly Aaron and Daniyel Cohen, Cassie Andrews and Nicholas Anderson,
Haven Denney and Daniel Raad, Olivia Gibbons and Tyler Harris, Chloe Katz
and Joseph Lynch, Brittney Simpson and Nathan Miller, Caitlin Yankowskas and
John Coughlin

Dance: Lauri Bonacorsi and Travis Mager, Isabella Cannuscio and Ian Lorello,
Piper Gilles and Zach Donohue, Lynn Kriengkrairut and Logan
Giulietti-Schmitt, Anastasia Olson and Jordan Cowan, Trina Pratt and Chris
Obzansky, Jane Summersett and Todd Gilles, Moriah Tabon and Matt Kleffman,
Shannon Wingle and Tim McKernan.

- U.S Figure Skating -

U.S. Figure Skating is the national governing body for the sport of figure
skating in the United States as recognized by the United States Olympic
Committee and the International Skating Union. U.S. Figure Skating is
comprised of more than 763 member clubs and Basic Skills Programs
representing approximately 179,000 members. U.S. Figure Skating is charged
with the development of the sport on all levels within the United States
including athletes, officials, sanctioning of events and exhibitions, and
establishing the rules and guidelines by which the sport is governed.










------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------~-~>
SkateFans posts are copyright their original author and may not be quoted
elsewhere without explicit written permission. Those who post to SkateFans
do
not automatically cede their copyright to any person or entity.
------------------------------------------_->Yahoo! Groups Links

Here's the link to the revised version of the press release online:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?id=42938

"The funding for the athletes on the A, B and C team envelope will be determined
by tiers within each envelope. Further information about the criteria for each
tier can be found here."

The direct link to the 2009-10 Team Envelope Criteria is:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/Shell.asp?cat=2&id=2&sid=41936

--Sylvia

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "denbydilbert2001" <denbydilbert2001@...>
wrote:
>
> NEWS RELEASE
> 20 First Street – Colorado Springs, CO  80906
> Phone: (719) 635-5200 – Fax: (719) 635-9548
> Web site: www.usfigureskating.org
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> Media contact:  Scottie Bibb – (719) 635-5200
>
> U.S. FIGURE SKATING ANNOUNCES 2009-10 TEAM ENVELOPES
>
> – 102 ATHLETES NAMED TO TEAM USA –
>
> Colorado Springs, Colo. (April 28, 2009) – U.S. Figure Skating announced today
the individuals and teams that will compose the A, B and C team envelopes for
the 2009-10 season. Those athletes assigned to the Reserve team envelope will be
announced at a later date.
>
> The envelope level is primarily determined by the athlete's performance in
international and U.S. Figure Skating competitions during the previous season,
and is used to determine funding levels. It is not used as a strict guideline
for selections to international competitions.

NEWS RELEASE
20 First Street – Colorado Springs, CO  80906
Phone: (719) 635-5200 – Fax: (719) 635-9548
Web site: www.usfigureskating.org


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Media contact:  Scottie Bibb – (719) 635-5200

U.S. FIGURE SKATING ANNOUNCES 2009-10 TEAM ENVELOPES

– 102 ATHLETES NAMED TO TEAM USA –

Colorado Springs, Colo. (April 28, 2009) – U.S. Figure Skating announced today
the individuals and teams that will compose the A, B and C team envelopes for
the 2009-10 season. Those athletes assigned to the Reserve team envelope will be
announced at a later date.

The envelope level is primarily determined by the athlete's performance in
international and U.S. Figure Skating competitions during the previous season,
and is used to determine funding levels. It is not used as a strict guideline
for selections to international competitions.

Team A

Ladies: Alissa Czisny, Rachael Flatt

Men: Jeremy Abbott, Evan Lysacek, Brandon Mroz, Johnny Weir

Pairs: Caydee Denney and Jeremy Barrett, Keauna McLaughlin and Rockne Brubaker

Dance: Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto, Meryl Davis and Charlie White

Team B

Ladies: Becky Bereswill, Alexe Gilles, DeeDee Leng, Mirai Nagasu, Ashley Wagner,
Caroline Zhang

Men: Ryan Bradley, Stephen Carriere, Richard Dornbush, Armin Mahbanoozadeh, Ross
Miner, Adam Rippon

Pairs: Marissa Castelli and Simon Shnapir, Brooke Castile and Ben Okolski,
Amanda Evora and Mark Ladwig, Rena Inoue and John Baldwin, Tracy Tanovich and
Michael Chau

Dance: Madison Chock and Greg Zuerlein, Madison Hubbell and Keiffer Hubbell, Kim
Navarro and Brent Bommentre, Emily Samuelson and Evan Bates, Maia Shibutani and
Alex Shibutani

Team C

Ladies: Kiri Baga, Melissa Bulanhagui, Amanda Dobbs, Christina Gao, Kristiene
Gong, Katrina Hacker, Ellie Kawamura, Bebe Liang, Mary Beth Marley, Angela
Maxwell, Kimmie Meissner, Kristine Musademba, Brittney Rizo, Angela Wang,
Kendall Wyckoff

Men: Jason Brown, Steven Evans, Joshua Farris, Grant Hochstein, Alexander
Johnson, Austin Kanallakan, Keegan Messing, Curran Oi, Shaun Rogers

Pairs: Molly Aaron and Daniyel Cohen, Cassie Andrews and Nicholas Anderson,
Haven Denney and Daniel Raad, Olivia Gibbons and Tyler Harris, Chloe Katz and
Joseph Lynch, Brittney Simpson and Nathan Miller, Caitlin Yankowskas and John
Coughlin

Dance: Lauri Bonacorsi and Travis Mager, Isabella Cannuscio and Ian Lorello,
Piper Gilles and Zach Donohue, Lynn Kriengkrairut and Logan Giulietti-Schmitt,
Anastasia Olson and Jordan Cowan, Trina Pratt and Chris Obzansky, Jane
Summersett and Todd Gilles, Moriah Tabon and Matt Kleffman, Shannon Wingle and
Tim McKernan.

– U.S Figure Skating –

U.S. Figure Skating is the national governing body for the sport of figure
skating in the United States as recognized by the United States Olympic
Committee and the International Skating Union. U.S. Figure Skating is comprised
of more than 763 member clubs and Basic Skills Programs representing
approximately 179,000 members. U.S. Figure Skating is charged with the
development of the sport on all levels within the United States  including
athletes, officials, sanctioning of events and exhibitions, and establishing the
rules and guidelines by which the sport is governed.

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "kgorkrj" <Kathy.Godfrey@...> wrote:
>
> ISU results page with links to protocols:
>
> <http://www.isuresults.com/results/wtt2009/index.htm>
>
> The ISU also has competition reports
> linked from its home page:
>
> <http://www.isu.org/>
>
<http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,4844-128610-19728-1\
8886-295681-3572-4771-layout160-129918-news-item,00.html>
>
<http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,4844-128610-19728-1\
8886-295707-3572-4771-layout160-129918-news-item,00.html>
>
<http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,4844-128610-19728-1\
8886-295714-3572-4771-layout160-129918-news-item,00.html>
>
> Interestingly, Zhang was the only lady
> credited with 7 fully rotated
> triples, including the only fully credited triple/triple
> combination in the ladies' free skate,
> contributing to her having the highest technical
> score in the free skate.  (She did get a flutz edge deduction.)
>
> Asada did neither a salchow nor a lutz during the competition.
>
> Joubert did a fully-rotated 4T (apparently a beauty
> judging by the GOEs it got), 3A/2T, 3A/3T, and 3F/3T,
> and *still* managed to be only 3rd in the men's free skate,
> despite Lysacek getting a downgrade on one of his 3As and
> Chan falling on one of his and doubling the other.
> Oda actually had the highest technical content on
> paper, and the highest technical score, but lost
> out in the PCS marks.
>
> I'm amazed that Denney/Barrett stayed within shouting
> distance of Dube/Davison even after such a rough free skate.
> It's those old devil sbs jumps.
>
> And it seems strange to me that the ISU figure skating
> event with the biggest prize money allotted ($1 million)
> will probably go unnoticed in the US despite the win.
>
> >>Kathy
>

At this event, which indeed went under the radar here in NA, the unlukcy pair
team Dube / Davison had another horrible accident at the exhibition:

http://tinyurl.com/c3kjt8

Only reading about this type of accidents make me feel chills, after witnessing
live Totmianina's crash at Skate America in 2004.

Joseph

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, vsethi@... wrote:
>
> Kathy wrote:
>
> > Does any one know what the source is
> > of the rumors and complaints that
> > Hersh mentioned receiving that
> > the fix is in for Asada at 2010?
>
> Well, this is from Hersh's blog ("Coach Orser tells his pupil, skating star
> Kim, about the life of Brians"), dated March 27:
>
>   "Kim's rival is reigning world champion Mao Asada of Japan.
>
>   "Their two countries have had a tortured relationship, owing to Japan's
>    1910 invasion of Korea and subsequent 35 years of colonial rule.  And
>    Kim has fanned the flames this season by suggesting some Japanese
>    skaters -- not Mao -- have tried to impede her during practice sessions
>    at international competitions."
>
> Has anyone here seen anything during ladies' practice at any event
> that tends to confirm this allegation?
>

I recall reading about these allegations, but the rumors that
Hersh refers to in his more recent blog are specifically
about Japan bribing officials (judges and referees):

<http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/olympics_blog/2009/04/absurd-is-the-word-for-sk\
ating-swimming.html>

<quote>
5. And they better have EMTs on call throughout South Korea during the Olympics,
to judge by the hyperventilating e-mails I am getting from Korean fans convinced
there is a Japanese-funded conspiracy to buy off judges so Japan's Mao Asada
will beat Korean heroine Yu-na Kim, the new world champion, in the 2010 Winter
Games.  As in: "Nowadays there seems like some referees are suspected of getting
money from Japan.''  And, from a different e-mailer:  "I wonder if Japan buys
all judges?  Or is there some judge who has (a) conscience?''
</quote>

If someone from Japan were to bribe an ISU official,
I'd suggest bribing the technical specialists
so that Asada got at least the benefit of the doubt
on takeoff edges and rotation completion (unless
that's what the term "referees" refers to--can't
see much point in bribing the actual referee, anyway).
Cheaper and more to the point than bribing the judges.
And if this is in fact part of what the complainers
to Hersh think is happening, I'd say Japan was not
getting what it's supposedly paying for.
(She says sarcastically.)

>>Kathy

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "kgorkrj" <Kathy.Godfrey@...> wrote:
>
> --- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "herios" <herios@> wrote:
>
> >
> > While the yahoo.sports article wasn't giving any clue who could be Isabelle 
baby's father, the icenetwork's  does:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ct9bug
> >
> > Joseph
> >
>
> At the risk of ethnic profiling, Schoenfelder's
> unflappability as cited in the article
> seems to match his German name at least
> as much as his French nationality :-).
>
> This team is an example of that group of
> skaters where even if I'm not always a big
> fan of what they do (although I may be
> one of the few people who actually
> liked their Untouchables/Bonnie and Clyde
> program), I admire their hard work,
> tenacity, and progress.
>
> But 5 months between baby and Olympics will be tough.
>
> >>Kathy
>
Schoenfelder roughly translates to pretty or nice meadow or field.

His family undoubtably has Germanic origins as well as French. His birth place
Belfort is in a region that at one time belonged to Austria but as a French
speaking part of Alsace was not taken over by the Prussians.

Meagan Leigh

Kathy wrote:

> Although I think it's quite possible to
> manipulate the results under the new
> system, I should add that while absence
> of evidence (as guaranteed under CoP)
> is not evidence of absence, it's
> not evidence of presence, either.

Yes, I was beginning to wonder whether the secrecy of the judges' marks
under COP has given rise to a bumper crop of conspiracy theories in
skating fandom, none of which can either be proven or disproven.

For example, suppose it is alleged that judge Dewey Knot Cheatem is on
the take and has received money to overmark skater Sandy Howe.  Even if
Dewey's marks were known and were consistent with the allegation, that
by itself is not proof of bribery.  But since his marks are not known,
it cannot even be established that he in fact overmarked Sandy Howe.

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "kgorkrj" <Kathy.Godfrey@...> wrote:
>
>
<http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090419.wsptsktg19/GSSto\
ry/GlobeSportsOther/home>
>
> Bev Smith's article on the change to 9-judge panels,
> only 5 of whose marks will actually determine results.
>
>> <quote>
> Ted Barton, a Canadian who helped develop and test the current judging system,
said he sees no problem with only five judges. "Anybody can't manipulate because
you don't know which five they are, right?" he said.
> </quote>
>
> You don't need to know--just play the odds.
> If we assume that the manipulators aren't
> stupid, they'll be concentrating on
> trying to nudge results where their favorite
> is a serious contender, and manages to skate
> reasonably well.  Say that out of the 9 judges,
> you have 5 that will push for your favorite,
> using PCS as needed to overcome any small
> technical shortcomings.  Then the chances
> are 9 out of 14 that at least 3 of those
> 5 will be in the 5 marks that actually count.
> Granted, that's not as sure a fix as if you
> did know, but it's nearly a 2/3 chance of
> getting what you want without any more
> manipulation than if you knew who the five
> would be.  So maybe one or two extra
> wins or medals at a Worlds if you engage
> in wholesale manipulation and your
> favorites don't all tank.
>
> >>Kathy
>

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090419.wsptsktg19/CommentSt\
ory/GlobeSportsOther/home

Paul Wylie's (perhaps) reply to the article.

Meagan Leigh

Kathy wrote:

> Does any one know what the source is
> of the rumors and complaints that
> Hersh mentioned receiving that
> the fix is in for Asada at 2010?

> Is this one of those
> instances of "I hope X doesn't
> happen" fears morphing through
> misinterpretation into
> "Someone said X will happen"
> and then multiplying by
> repetition into
> "Lots of people said X will happen"
> and finally "Everyone knows that
> X will happen"?

Well, this is from Hersh's blog ("Coach Orser tells his pupil, skating star
Kim, about the life of Brians"), dated March 27:

   "Kim's rival is reigning world champion Mao Asada of Japan.

   "Their two countries have had a tortured relationship, owing to Japan's
    1910 invasion of Korea and subsequent 35 years of colonial rule.  And
    Kim has fanned the flames this season by suggesting some Japanese
    skaters -- not Mao -- have tried to impede her during practice sessions
    at international competitions."

Has anyone here seen anything during ladies' practice at any event
that tends to confirm this allegation?

> Does any one know what the source is
> of the rumors and complaints that
> Hersh mentioned receiving that
> the fix is in for Asada at 2010?

I wonder about it as well. If anything I'd say the results up to date
suggest the opposite: the scores this year indicate that in judges
eyes Kim cannot put a foot wrong, even if she tries (as she did, in a
number of occasions). There is no doubt that she is exceptionally
talented, but I don't see as much difference between her and Mao as
the judges seems to see.

Besides, since the system does not give any 'extra' credit for the
second jump in combination it plays into Yu-Na's hands as well. At
least I think that 3T is much easier jump to execute as the second one
in combo than 3R.

OTOH, Asada has no one to blame but herself, IMHO. It seems that she
is always giving points away by not holding the positions long enough
or by messing up just enough jumps to 'eliminate' the advantage she
gains with the 3A.

Anna.

From: SkateFans@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SkateFans@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of vsethi@...



I agree that Cinquanta's comments about pro skating demonstrate considerable
cluelessness. IMO, except for people who grew up in the sport or at
least have taken up recreational skating as adults, eligible skating
(under 6.0 or COP) is tough to understand. With its orientation
toward entertaining the audience rather than complying with rules, pro
skating has a higher likelihood of attracting new fans to the sport,
something skating, at least in the US, really needs right now. After
acquiring an interest in the sport through pro skating, the new fan
may be ready to deal with spin positions, completed jump revolutions
(versus a half turn short), wrong edge deductions, greater difficulty
of completed elements versus obvious errors, etc.

I think Cinquanta's biggest problem with pro skating is that it leveraged
skaters who had left the ISU competitive stream, generated no revenue for
the ISU, and competed (especially in the North American market) with ISU
events for ratings and revenue.



I'm not sure that reviving a pro circuit at this point would attract new
fans to ISU events.  I think there is a great danger that with the right pro
skaters keeping up their skills without having to satisfy a bizarre and
needlessly complex secret judging system, the casual disaffected fans might
well prefer watching the pros, and not having to do so much math in their
heads.



Trish







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, vsethi@... wrote:

>
> If Kwan had skated as a pro, if Lipinski had been willing (and able) to
> take on real competition in her pro events (Ice Wars and Landover could
> have milked a scenario like that for quite a few years), if Lipinski had
> been more popular ... I've thought for the past several years that Kwan
> and Kwan alone had the power to revive US pro skating (not that she owes
> it to anyone; for a time in the mid-nineties, she skated in virtually
> everything that was open to her).  It might now be too late though.
>

Lipinski's short, meteoric career as a senior eligible lady
didn't give casual fans much time to know her, and that
may have handicapped her popularity potential as well.

I definitely agree that having her first pro competition
be in a field that seemed to be a designed walkover
(as opposed to going up against Yamaguchi or in a pro-am
against Kwan and Yamaguchi, which should indeed have been
a big draw) did not make a great impression.
We were eventually told that she was handicapped
by her hip problems, but nothing was said at the time.

Sarah Hughes had, I think, more potential as a
show/pro skater than Lipinski, but that wasn't
her priority (and there's no reason it should have
been).  After two American ladies Olympic champions
who barely made a ripple on the pro landscape,
I also agree that it's probably too late now.
The casual viewer's exposure to pro skating is
now people skating to live music interspersed
with ads by a talking duck selling insurance.

>>Kathy

Although I think it's quite possible to
manipulate the results under the new
system, I should add that while absence
of evidence (as guaranteed under CoP)
is not evidence of absence, it's
not evidence of presence, either.
Does any one know what the source is
of the rumors and complaints that
Hersh mentioned receiving that
the fix is in for Asada at 2010?

The record to date suggests that,
unless Asada gets a edge-blessed
lutz back into her jumping arsenal
by the Olympics, there's no reason
to think that the judges will put
her ahead of Kim if they both
skate clean.  They won't have
the room to do it on the
technical score, and they have
not demonstrated a desire to
do it in the PCS marks.
Is this one of those
instances of "I hope X doesn't
happen" fears morphing through
misinterpretation into
"Someone said X will happen"
and then multiplying by
repetition into
"Lots of people said X will happen"
and finally "Everyone knows that
X will happen"?

>>Kathy

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "herios" <herios@...> wrote:

>
> While the yahoo.sports article wasn't giving any clue who could be Isabelle 
baby's father, the icenetwork's  does:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ct9bug
>
> Joseph
>

At the risk of ethnic profiling, Schoenfelder's
unflappability as cited in the article
seems to match his German name at least
as much as his French nationality :-).

This team is an example of that group of
skaters where even if I'm not always a big
fan of what they do (although I may be
one of the few people who actually
liked their Untouchables/Bonnie and Clyde
program), I admire their hard work,
tenacity, and progress.

But 5 months between baby and Olympics will be tough.

>>Kathy

Susan wrote:

>>Do you think that Kwan as 1998 Olympic gold medalist would have stopped
>>the slide?  Sarah Hughes in 2002 certainly didn't do it; perhaps it was
>>already too late or perhaps Sarah wasn't cut out to be a show skater.
>
> Well, it's always tricky to play what if.  If Kwan had won gold and
> turned pro after 1998, it at least would have at least slowed the
> decline and maybe prevented the disappearance of pro skating
> competitions.  There were still lots of good men available. Boitano &
> Browning were still participating, although Elvis staying with skating
> to do pro events would have helped too.  The real problem these events
> faced was getting enough interesting women.  Kristi was kind of done
> carrying the load, Ito, Baiul & Kerrigan had kind of disappeared, and so
> they were resorting to Yuka Sato, Josee Choinard (not exactly
> headliners) and ladies who had last competed in the 1980s to round out
> their events.

If Kwan had skated as a pro, if Lipinski had been willing (and able) to
take on real competition in her pro events (Ice Wars and Landover could
have milked a scenario like that for quite a few years), if Lipinski had
been more popular ... I've thought for the past several years that Kwan
and Kwan alone had the power to revive US pro skating (not that she owes
it to anyone; for a time in the mid-nineties, she skated in virtually
everything that was open to her).  It might now be too late though.

> I also think Speedy totally misunderstood the skating market dynamics,
> at least in the US.  I still think eligible and pro skating fed each
> other.  Pro skating and skaters gave the sport visibility, and that that
> helped build interest in the eligible competitions as well.   Yes, you
> weren't going to see your now ineligible favorite at Worlds, but you
> still tuned in to see who would become the next Oksana Baiul or the next
> Kwan.  It's kind of like that show business saying about not caring what
> they say as long as they spell my name right.  As Tonya Harding proved
> with the great whack, almost any publicity can be good for the sport.

I agree that Cinquanta's comments about pro skating demonstrate considerable
cluelessness.  IMO, except for people who grew up in the sport or at
least have taken up recreational skating as adults, eligible skating
(under 6.0 or COP) is tough to understand.  With its orientation
toward entertaining the audience rather than complying with rules, pro
skating has a higher likelihood of attracting new fans to the sport,
something skating, at least in the US, really needs right now.  After
acquiring an interest in the sport through pro skating, the new fan
may be ready to deal with spin positions, completed jump revolutions
(versus a half turn short), wrong edge deductions, greater difficulty
of completed elements versus obvious errors, etc.

<http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090419.wsptsktg19/GSSto\
ry/GlobeSportsOther/home>

Bev Smith's article on the change to 9-judge panels,
only 5 of whose marks will actually determine results.

While George Rossano is quoted as pointing out that the
problems of a single bad mark (for whatever reason)
are exacerbated with 5 vs 7 judges "counting,"
Ted Barton of Skate Canada says:

<quote>
Ted Barton, a Canadian who helped develop and test the current judging system,
said he sees no problem with only five judges. "Anybody can't manipulate because
you don't know which five they are, right?" he said.
</quote>

You don't need to know--just play the odds.
If we assume that the manipulators aren't
stupid, they'll be concentrating on
trying to nudge results where their favorite
is a serious contender, and manages to skate
reasonably well.  Say that out of the 9 judges,
you have 5 that will push for your favorite,
using PCS as needed to overcome any small
technical shortcomings.  Then the chances
are 9 out of 14 that at least 3 of those
5 will be in the 5 marks that actually count.
Granted, that's not as sure a fix as if you
did know, but it's nearly a 2/3 chance of
getting what you want without any more
manipulation than if you knew who the five
would be.  So maybe one or two extra
wins or medals at a Worlds if you engage
in wholesale manipulation and your
favorites don't all tank.

>>Kathy

vsethi@... wrote:
>
> The above is an article by a Russian opposition politician.  He mentions
> the following problems with Sochi's preparations for the Olympics:
>
> 1.  Eviction of Sochi residents to make room for the venues.
> 2.  Environmental damage to the West Caucasus region.
> 3.  Loss of corporate support.
> 4.  Proximity to a potential war zone (Georgia/Russia).

   [...]

> Of course, it seems to me that it's not unusual for gloom and doom to
> be forecast in advance of most Olympic Games.

Doom and gloom are forecast in advance of most Olympic Games because
the modern Games now inevitably lead to environmental damage, massive
debt, and the displacement and/or incarceration of vulnerable local
populations - racialized communities, the poor, the mentally ill, or
anyone else developers want to get out of the way.  The books are
cooked, the security apparatus is disgusting, and the accountability
is virtually nil.

I love winter sport and have the utmost respect for the athletes.  At
this point, however, I despise the Olympics.

(Yes, I live in Vancouver, and I encourage you all not to attend.)

--Stephanie

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Ruthann Biel <bielra@...> wrote:
>
> Former ice dance world champion Isabelle Delobel is pregnant and due in
> Sept.  Still expect to make Olympics. [image: click
>
here]<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15p37erp8/M=731609.13380238.13480434.8514476/D\
=sports/S=96651328:MIP2/_ylt=Ardg4kpBCyiDPFKIODWErCRAyMIF/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1240440781\
/L=KUrfNGKIPE6Uf3OaSFpq.ANCTGklS0nvg60ACEGU/B=WtwmCtj8fXg-/J=1240433581663063/K=\
ZvNJjebdqjIhbFbQgQ4jQw/A=5677287/R=0/SIG=11s6hdi4k/*http://music.yahoo.com/promo\
-42778155-54-20071217-autoplay>
>
>
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-delobel-pregnancy&prov=ap&type=lgn\
s
>
> --
> Ruthann Biel,  mother, stitcher, music lover
> bielr@... & bielra@...
>

While the yahoo.sports article wasn't giving any clue who could be Isabelle 
baby's father, the icenetwork's  does:

http://tinyurl.com/ct9bug

Joseph

Hi all,

April is almost over, and I'm still editing my Nationals photos!  ACK!!  Here's
the Sr Mens FS:

http://www.pbase.com/trilby23/2009_championship_men_fs&page=all

Only the Exhibition is left to go, but that one is gigantic!


   ------------ Trilby

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403300.\
html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Boris Nemtsov - Sochi's Olympic Troubles - washingtonpost.com

The above is an article by a Russian opposition politician.  He mentions
the following problems with Sochi's preparations for the Olympics:

1.  Eviction of Sochi residents to make room for the venues.
2.  Environmental damage to the West Caucasus region.
3.  Loss of corporate support.
4.  Proximity to a potential war zone (Georgia/Russia).

and adds:

   "Sochi is a beautiful subtropical coastal resort. For decades it has
    been a popular summer destination for Russians. The streets are lined
    with palm trees. Little wonder that people might scratch their heads in
    confusion when told this city will host the Winter Olympics."

Of course, it seems to me that it's not unusual for gloom and doom to
be forecast in advance of most Olympic Games.

---- Mary E Tyler <dejahvu@...> wrote:

[snip]

> There's a reason we got called "fairy-hoppers" by the speed skaters.
> Skating is "not a real sport" because it's not masculine.
>
> dej

Banggg...hammer hits nail head. Except I would use the word "macho" rather than
"masculine"...i.e., it doesn't involve blatant displays of alleged masculinity,
but quite the opposite.

Trouble is, skating will never get anywhere with its concession attempts aimed
at a sexist, homophobic society that devalues things done by women and gays
(primarily, gay men). It never has in the past, and it will not in the future.
The only way to eliminate that particular road block to the popularity of figure
skating is to end homophobia, sexism, and stereotypical cliches in a society as
to what it is appropriate for men to do vs. what it's appropriate for women to
do.

Good luck with that!

Trudi

I don't hink this was posted while I was away, having a nightmare with my
computer (hard drive crashed...) among other issues, so here it is:

http://www.ice-dance.com/matthews-gislason/

Joseph

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Currie" <ncurrie40@...> wrote:
>
> --- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "denbydilbert2001" <denbydilbert2001@>
wrote:
> >
> >  http://www.skatingfantasy.com/site/Stand_up_for_life.html
> >
> > The site says the show is in honor of Lisa Spitz. Does she have breast
cancer? I remember sitting with her mom at competitions. She would squeeze my
hand so hard when Lisa (Elissa) was skating.
> > > Meagan Leigh
>
> God I hope she's fine.  Lisa is a special person. when I first saw her dance,
it was breathtaking.  Her technique was perfect.  In those days she was still
skating with her original partner ... Charles Lamb.  It was an odd match in lots
of ways, and one doomed from the point of view of Lisa getting to the very top.
And yet they danced with this freaky ease and that was great.
>
> Ben
>
> PS: Lisa was 6th or 7th at worlds in 1983, came 10th in Sarajevo and was back
to 7th at that years worlds, immediately behind Wilson and McCall. With Scott or
some new partner, Lisa wouda given the Canadians a real run for their money in
Calgary in '88
>
I always wondered why she and Scott split after 84. She retired and he partnered
with Susie Semanick. Does anyone know if Lisa's mom is still alive? Rose was so
gracious. Lisa's father couldn't even watch her compete. He would wander around
the concourse until it was over. They were a lovely couple.

Meagan Leigh