Braden's LP from 2005 Nationals set the audience on fire... because he had the
jumps and all the other stuff that makes his skating so wonderful.  I'm glad I
got to see it!

   For those of you who know Braden... does he have a confidence problem?  I
spoke with him in August of 04 at the Colorado Championships (while I was in CO
supposedly visiting my family <g>) and wished him luck at his upcoming
international (Nebelhorn or Finlandia, can't remember which) and he kind of
shrugged it off like he wasn't expecting to do well.  IIRC he didn't.

   Janet is right about the heartbreaker comment.  Think of the great programs we
could see from Braden as a professional when he wouldn't be bound to completing
8 triples.  But of course, most of the successful pros were those who competed
successfully, but maybe don't have as much to offer as someone like Braden. 
Janet's comment about the DU show with Eldredge got me thinking about that. 
There's always the skating company in NY, sorry I can't remember the name, but
it doesn't get much exposure (ie TV).

   OK, enough musing.  And dang it, I missed the free preview period on that
skating channel thingee.

   Cleo

lbo3@... wrote:
           About Braden Overett. Now if he could just land all those jumps.
Braden is a bit of a heartbreaker to watch over time because he is SOOOOOO
wonderful at musical interpretation, footwork, timing, and finesse, and his
spins are normally exquisite. And some days he hits the jumps. And some days he
doesn't. But he's older than Weir (he's graduated from Denver University, and if
I recall, he took an extra year or so to get through, because he skated
seriously all the way through college). So expecting him suddenly to land all
the jumps with any consistency is probably not .... um .... reasonable. But we
can still hope.

There was a year in which Braden skated the DU spring ice show, and Todd
Eldredge was the featured guest. (this was 3 or 4 years ago, AFTER Eldredge had
turned into a really engaging skater who showed passion and pulled the audience
in) ..... and Braden outperformed him -- by quite a distance. There were people
in the audience thinking, "now, tell me again why we paid all that money for
Eldredge when we could have had Overett do another number for lots less cost
..."

janet

> During this free preview period (not sure how much longer it will
> last), be sure to watch senior man BRADEN OVERETT's highly
> entertaining short ("Havana" soundtrack) and long ("Pirates of the
> Caribbean" soundtrack) programs from SW Regionals if and while you
> can! Overett scored the highest of the senior men that competed at
> regionals (198.48 points - 65.73 in SP & 132.75 in FS). He really
> rocked the house at Midwestern Sectionals with these two programs
> this past weekend -- the audience in Pelham, Alabama responded
> enthusiastically to his performance ability and deft footwork to the
> music.
>
Ok, Sylvia, because I trust you I took time out between the
stringbeans and the eggplant salad to watch Braden's long. Wow, wow,
wow. Johnny better look over his shoulder, indeed. Perfect choreo,
attitude and execution of this fun music.

Naomi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fred Goss wrote:

>My general theory is you improve by competing, not by staying home and
practicing...B/A free dance may need serious reworking but avoiding events where
they might lose doesnt look like "progress."
>
>
>
I was wondering how they ended up skating against Domina/S in two out of
two GP events.  Meeting once would not be unexpected, but both couples
should have been seeded and they usually make an attempt to spread the
seeded skaters around.  Would Belbin/A have been so silly as to ask for
Cup of Russia?

Susan McC

Taken from Yahoo! TV for the week of Sat. 12/2/06 through Fri. 12/8/06.
All times Eastern; please doublecheck your local listings.

And always bear in mind that broadcast network afternoon
skating is often subject to the vagaries of delays due
to other live coverage, or being rescheduled, shortened,
or even completely preempted by your local affiliate,
and that ESPN evening coverage may have a delayed start
if preceded by a live event.

CN8 is a station carried on Comcast cable systems in the northeast,
usually on channel 8.

Fri  Dec  1   "Today" w/ Kurt Browning                   NBC 7-10 a.m. EST
Fri  Dec  1   "Ice Diaries" ep 1 "Let the Games Begin"   FITV 3-4 p.m. EST
               [repeat from TLC 1/6/06]
Fri  Dec  1   Ice Wars [Chicago, IL, 11/2/06]             CBS 8-10 p.m. EST
Fri  Dec  1   "Ice Diaries" ep 2 "Race to the Podium"  FITV 9-10 p.m. EST
               [Bebe Liang at Skate America] [repeat from TLC 1/13/06]
Sat  Dec  2   "Ice Diaries" ep 2 "Race to the Podium"  FITV mid- 1 a.m. EST
Sun  Dec  3   Cup of Russia [Moscow, RUS, 11/23-26/06]    ABC 4-6 p.m. EST
Sun  Dec  3   "Ice Diaries" ep 2 "Race to the Podium"  FITV 6-7 p.m. EST
               [Bebe Liang at Skate America] [repeat from TLC 1/13/06]
Sun  Dec  3   2006 Eastern Sectionals (N Kerrigan's World of Skating #2) CN8 7-9
p.m. EST
               [Bethlehem, PA, 11/16-19/05] (rep from 12/4/05)
               [it's also possible that this is actually the 2007 Eastern
               Sectionals, 11/16-18/06, Alpharetta, GA]
Mon  Dec  4  "Ice Princess" (2005 movie)             Starz 9:05- 11 a.m. EST
               (cast includes Kwan, Boitano, and Juliana Cannarozzo)
Fri  Dec  8   "Today" w/ Belbin and Agosto                NBC 7-10 a.m. EST
Fri  Dec  8   "Ice Diaries" ep 2 "Race to the Podium"  FITV 3-4 p.m. EST
               [Bebe Liang at Skate America] [repeat from TLC 1/13/06]
Fri  Dec  8  "Ice Diaries" ep 3 "Kiss and Cry" FITV 8-9 p.m. EST (rep)
               [repeat from TLC 1/20/06]
Sat  Dec  9  "Ice Diaries" ep 3 "Kiss and Cry" FITV mid -1 a.m. EST (rep)
Sun  Dec  10  Marshalls US FS Challenge                   ABC 1-3 p.m. EST
               [live, Boston, MA]
               [warning: the live coverage of the Campbells Cup
                in October 2006 ran 15 minutes overtime]
Sun  Dec  10  NHK Trophy [Nagano, JPN, 11/30-12/3/06]     ESPN 4-7 p.m. EST
Sun  Dec  10  "Ice Diaries" ep 3 "Kiss and Cry" FITV 6-7 p.m. EST (rep)


>>Kathy Godfrey
   kgodfrey@...

I don't quarrel with anyone saying Sasha "should have" won the O-gold in
Torino..if said in the sense of "If she had delivered the performances she is
capable of"

If what was meant was that what Sasha actually did should have gotten the Gold,
that's a bit bizarre.

Fred



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/06 5:07
AM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Ben Currie" <ncurrie40@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, the split was 60/40 ... the decision in 1968 to move from
> 60/40 to 50/50 did not apply to the '72 Olympics.

Can you provide a reference for that?  Both Ben Wright's book and the
1991 Skating magazine article say that the change was voted at the
1967 ISU Congress to take effect in the fall of 1968 with no mention
of an exception for *two* Olympics down the road at that time.
Moreover, Janet Lynn's autobiography quotes the Newsweek preview of
the 1972 games: "figures count exactly as much as the daring,
imaginative free skating....".

Also, if you look at the detailed scores on the Japanese Olympic results
site, you'll see that the total factors for the compulsory figures
(4+4+5+5+6+6)* 1 mark for each figure add up to exactly the same as the
factor for free skating 15 * 2 marks.  :-)  Remember that prior to 1981,
it was the *marks* that were factored, not the placements....

-Sandra the skeptical

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Loosemore <sandra@...> wrote:
>
> "Ben Currie" <ncurrie40@...> wrote:
> >
> > In 1972 the Figures counted for 60% and the Free Skate for 40%.
>
> Um, no.  At that time, the split was 50-50.  See
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_figures
>
> for a detailed breakdown of how the weights changed over the years.
>
> -Sandra the cynic


Actually, the split was 60/40 ... the decision in 1968 to move from
60/40 to 50/50 did not apply to the '72 Olympics.

But even with the 50/50 split at the '72 worlds, Schuba was able to
build up a huge lead ... she did, however, lose an ordinal or two to
IIRC Magnussen and maybe a single one to Janet Lynn.

So youre right that "at the time" the split was 50/50, but wrong that
that split appled to the Olympics of that time.

Ben

And yes if Ellyn wants to chart out the factors for the six school
figure "phases" separately along with the one free skate phase, that
would be cool .... magnussen will still win, but Lynn might be bumped
to 3rd ...

BTW< that site for the Olympic scores (all in Japanese) is not 100%
percent trustworthy ... I'm pretty sure I've caught a minor error or
two on it.

My general theory is you improve by competing, not by staying home and
practicing...B/A free dance may need serious reworking but avoiding events where
they might lose doesnt look like "progress."

Fred

PS While I always read them, analysis of how past events would have been scored
differently with different rules...Yes, Brian Orser and Nancy Kerrigan would
have won "If," but they competed under the rules that were in place in 84, 88
and 94....

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted by Alexandra Damman:

> San Diego's NBC affiliate has a "Christmas at
> Horton Square" event every year, and Sasha Cohen
> is the guest skater tonight.
>
> It airs at 7:30pm tonight, right before Christmas
> at Rockefellar Center.

I didn't venture downtown, but watched it on tv.  The NBC affiliate showed two
skaters:  Andrew Gonzales and Sasha Cohen.  Andrew is a local kid who finished
4th in Junior Men at Pacific Coast Sectionals.  On tv, the caption was "junior
skater."  Sigh.

Sasha skated to the Christina Aguilera song that was on the Rockefeller Center
show, same dress but sans Christina.  Speaking of Rockefeller Center, I assume
the show was done last week?  It was a strange juxtaposition to see Sasha skate
in San Diego and skate in New York within an hour or so :-)

The rink at Horton Square is one of those seasonal rinks set up downtown.  The
ice is kind of crappy, which may be why Andrew did mostly double jumps.  I think
the only jumps that Sasha did were Russian split jumps.

Sandy, who grumbled when the co-host, someone I used to skate with and a big
Sasha fan, said that Sasha should have won the Olympic gold medal, and is
tempted to call Pat to tell her to watch the tape again

"Ben Currie" <ncurrie40@...> wrote:
>
> In 1972 the Figures counted for 60% and the Free Skate for 40%.

Um, no.  At that time, the split was 50-50.  See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_figures

for a detailed breakdown of how the weights changed over the years.

-Sandra the cynic

> Here's the results of the Figures and Free:
>
> Figures:
> 1. Trixy Schuba, AUT
> 2. Julie Lynn Holmes, USA
> 3. Karen Magnussen, CAN
> 4. Janet Lynn, USA
>
> Here's how the top four going into the free skate did in the free:
> 1. Janet Lynn
> 2. Karen Magnussen
> 6. Julie Lynn Holmes
> 8. Trixy Schuba

Actually, Holmes was 8th and Schuba was 7th in the free. It's easy
enough to look up Olympic scores here:
http://winter-olympic-memories.com/

Wish we had that kind of data so easily available for other past
events.

In either case, though, the results with pure factored placements
would have been 1. Magnussen, 2. Lynn, 3. Schuba

If each figure were factored separately (as compulsory dances were
since the 90s, even in 1992 and 94 when they were still judged with
only one mark), then Schuba might have gotten her advantage back even
without absolute scores being carried over and only factored
placements counting, just by winning all the figures while several
other skaters split the 2-3-4 etc. places for the others. I'll have
to do the calculations later to see whether that was the case.

Are people interested in an actual analysis?

In 1972 the Figures counted for 60% and the Free Skate for 40%.

Here's the results of the Figures and Free:

Figures:
1. Trixy Schuba, AUT
2. Julie Lynn Holmes, USA
3. Karen Magnussen, CAN
4. Janet Lynn, USA

Here's how the top four going into the free skate did in the free: 1.
1. Janet Lynn
2. Karen Magnussen
6. Julie Lynn Holmes
8. Trixy Schuba

So overall it looked this way.

1. Trixy Schuba .... (1)(8)
2. Magnussen   ....  (3)(2)
3. Janet Lynn  ....  (4)(1)
4. JL Holmes  ....   (2)(6)

In a Factored Placements system the placements in the phases are
essentially multiplied by the percentage they are worth:

1. Schuba ....   1 x 60  added to 8 x 40
2. Magnussen .... 3 x 60 added to 2 x 40
3. Lynn   ....   4 x 60 added to 1 x 40

It's crude but effective.

In such a system, even with the figures counting for 60% Schuba would
have come third. But figures did not count for 60% ... they counted
for 100% because of cumulative scoring ...

She didn't need to do the free skate ... she had more points after
figures, then the girl in second (Holmes) couda got by get two rows
of 6.0s in the Free.

Now, Trixy was really that good at figures; it was just that figures
should not have counted that much ... 100% instead of 60%.

This "effect" happens all the time under the present system, take a
look at the recent Cup of Russia mens results:


1 Brian JOUBERT FRA ....  1 1
2 Johnny WEIR USA ....    2 5
3 Ilia KLIMKIN RUS .....  4 6
4 Tomas VERNER CZE ....   6 3
5 Emanuel SANDHU CAN .... 3 8
6 Kris BERNTSSON SWE .... 5 7
7 Andrei GRIAZEV RUS .... 8 4
8 Sergei DOBRIN  RUS ...  9 2

Under the old hard-to-move up system in place up to 2004, Verner
comes second weir holds third and Dobrin gets 4th.

Under the Ben Currie easier-to-move-up-then-ever-before system where
the SP is held to no more 25%  ... Dobrin gets the silver and Verner
gets the Bronze.

Now, the other problem ... a more serious one ... is that the
placements themselves in the phases aren't reliable ... COP screws up
the order of how the phases should come out ... and so it isn't
trustworthy to rank the skaters in the phases much less use those
rankings to figure the overall result.

COP (often) gets the order wrong in the phases, and the cumulative
scoring compounds the problem ... causing poor results, making it
harder than ever before to move up, and generally making it sorta
mysterious (understatement of my life)  how the medals are figured
out.

Of course, COP gets lots of results right ... and so does my cat ....
but that doesn't make it the right system to use .... especially
considering that a good scoring system is most necessary to help sort
things out when the skating is close or in flux as it apparently was
for the men from 9th to 2nd in Russia.

Ben Currie

COP is insane.

> Yep, that's my assumption, too. Also after watching Joubert bury the
> field by 40 or so points two weeks in a row, he'd rather not take
> the risk of losing to him at GPF. (Although Oda and Takahashi are
> both certainly capable of beating him in Japan, not a fun thought
> either for the World Champion.)
>
> Naomi


Hasn't Lambiel had chronic knee problems for the past few seasons?

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Maureen Diffley
<maureen_diffley@...> wrote:
>
> However, in this case, Domnina/Shabalin fell in the OD (which is
automatic deduction of full point off the mark, right? and lost by
less than a point.)  So they and Russian TV commentators are quite
confident that the fall cost them the gold - and they could have been
Olympic silver medalists a second straight time in a row if they had
been clean all the way thru the competition.  No outrage, quite the
opposite....
>
>   Maureen

You missed my point: Dominina won the Golden Waltz and the Free
Dance, or what should amount to around 70% of the overall score.

Sure they fell in the OD, a phase that should be worth (relative to
the other phases) about 30% of the score.

A fall is a fall is a fall .... except that the worth, that is, the
weight, of the particular phase CD,OD, FD ... should 'check' or
modify the weight given to a fall. This system does do this, in a
number of ways, just not nearly enough ...

Remember, the point spreads are largely controlled by the judges ...
and their unilateral or even accidental actions can significantly
disrupt the 20/30/50 split of the CD,OD,and FD.

Allowing the panel the ability to modify the relative weight of the
phases of an event has proven, historically, to be a disater.

Cumulative points systems encourage cheating.  Sports which use these
types of systems, ... I'm thinking of diving primarily, have
instituted better checks against mischief, and seem to have more
honest judges in the first place.

In skating with a long history of scandal, and proven cheaters ON THE
PANELS ... a cumulative system is the worst possible alternative to
building credibility and making results transparent and legitimate.

Ben Currie

However, in this case, Domnina/Shabalin fell in the OD (which is automatic
deduction of full point off the mark, right? and lost by less than a point.)  So
they and Russian TV commentators are quite confident that the fall cost them the
gold - and they could have been Olympic silver medalists a second straight time
in a row if they had been clean all the way thru the competition.  No outrage,
quite the opposite....

   Maureen,
   bummed GP not shown on regular Russian tv stayed up late to watch Exos and saw
Petrova/Tikhonov skate "Dance me to the End of Love" for the 9th straight
season. After doing a brand new skate with non-skaters each week... they do the
godless repeat exo together. How rude!

Ben Currie <ncurrie40@...> wrote:
           --- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Goss" <fgoss@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, B/A competing in Russia and winning that gold medal was
definitely a poor choice for them.
>
> Fred

They "won" by getting the most points ... however, they "lost" the
Compulsory and the Free Dance:

1 Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO USA 186.33 2 1 2
2 Oksana DOMNINA / Maxim SHABALIN RUS 185.34 1 3 1

If the Olympics had a qualifier and the result was

1. Sasha Cohen 2 1 2
2. Shizuka Arakawa 1 3 1

the howls of outrage would still be audible.

How bout

1. Oksana Baiul 2 1 2
2. Nancy kerrigan 1 3 1

Ben Currie






---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Goss" <fgoss@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, B/A competing in Russia and winning that gold medal was
definitely a poor choice for them.
>
> Fred


They "won" by getting the most points ... however, they "lost" the
Compulsory and the Free Dance:

1 Tanith BELBIN / Benjamin AGOSTO     USA 186.33 2 1 2
2 Oksana DOMNINA / Maxim SHABALIN     RUS 185.34 1 3 1

If the Olympics had a qualifier and the result was

1. Sasha Cohen   2 1 2
2. Shizuka Arakawa 1 3 1

the howls of outrage would still be audible.

How bout

1. Oksana Baiul 2 1 2
2. Nancy kerrigan 1 3 1



Ben Currie

> Their LP needs a total redo,  and now with
> having to go to the GP Final, there's not really time to do  anything until
> after US Nationals.

Well, they still can withdraw from it... As a spectator I almost wish
they do. I would much rather watch whoever turns to be 1st alternate
than sit through four minutes of randomly thrown together collection
of recycled elements which they call a FD... Doing it once was one
time too many.

Anna.

At 6:45 PM +0000 11/27/06, bkostanick0 wrote:
>Just heard a radio announcment promoting the Boitano show that will be
>in the Budweiser Events Center in Loveland December 16 -- I believe
>that the TV broadcast date is Jan 1st. Promo spot mentioned practice
>passes, but I don't know how generally available they are.  The
>Budweiser Center is new and nice.  Scheduled performers include: Brian
>Boitano, Jamie Sale & David Pelletier, Michael Weiss, Steven Cousins,
>Ryan Jahnke, Amber Corwin, Yuka Sato & Jason Dungjen, Elena Leionova &
>Andrei Khvalko.  Live music from "Celtic Woman".
>
>I wonder if they'll be a Kwan sighting on or off the ice - Loveland is
>just about 40 minutes up the road from DU.
>
>Cheers,
>Barb K.

I saw a plug for the show in the Denver Post a few weeks ago. I was
wondering where the most decorated skater in the sport's history came
from.

______________________

More on the grownups' side is the Brian Boitano Skating Spectacular
at the Budweiser Events Center in Loveland on Dec. 16. Boitano, the
most decorated ice skater in the sport's history, knows how to
sweeten the deal: He'll have popular Irish vocal group Celtic Woman
open the show, which will be taped for a New Year's Day broadcast on
NBC. Tickets are on sale now ($45-$55, ComcastTix.com).
_______

Suzanne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

More U-Tube viewing  (without sound makes it trickier to assess ...
ya think?)


Meissner's free at SA should have beaten Ando; respectively I wouda
given those skates 5.7/5.8 and 5.8/5.5

Asada's SP is a gorgeous.  How come we are getting no extended
moaning and groaning from the Flutz peanut allery about her Triple
Lutz jumps?  Asada cannot do aproper sit spin position, especially an
acceptible back sit position.

Meissner's long looked pretty good to me ... elegant and mature ...
it needs some zing to make it sing at worlds ...

Albena and Max do a Westminister Waltz to die for!!!!!! The Kerr's
had a better pattern (deeper edged setup for the rocker/counter) and
some nice aspects as well.

Johnny Weir's (SC) free skate was a trip .... I fail to see the butch
in the supposedly butched-up choreography ...  it was the Chiffon
sash that made the Jimmy Cagney transformation  ..... emoticon-of-a-
screaming-queen-screaming-"NOT"

I actually liked the outfit .... have to hear the music to have an
opinion of the piece's potential.

Dubreuil and Lauzon have the four best lifts in the world .... by
quite a margin ... their first two in their free dance are truly
wonderful

the final 2-2and1/2 minutes of "That's Entertainment" is basically
filler until they think of something.

The first minute is very cool.

Dominina and shabalin's free dance on the other hand is the bark and
howl of my day's purusal ....  it's what I would have created if
someone said "please make a mock-u-free-dance that's a parady of
Bestemianova&Bukin's overwrought late-80s rubbish."

O, it is really really bad ... outstandingly so, given how difficult
it is to make a free dance that bad ...

Dominina&S did do a relatively good Rhumba CD that was comparable to
Belbin&A's  ... neither bound for glory in any case.

The Please-No!-I-Never-want-To-Hear-the-music-to-that-program Award
goes to Alban Preaubert's John Belushi inspired Short program with
the "Bee" outfit to boot.

A stranger in alley says: "pisst, hey kid, here's the tip: put three
or four yellow stripes horizonatally across your black outfit to, you
know, suggest a Bumble Bee."

"Gosh, Thanks mister ...... I'll run to rink right this minute to
mention it to my skating coach"

Wag.

Ben Currie

Fred,

Well, it was a good week in terms of getting a win, but the longer  pursuit
of a World medal this season may be in jeopardy.  Without Dom/Shabs  fall in
the OD, B/A would have lost to them. Their LP needs a total redo,  and now with
having to go to the GP Final, there's not really time to do  anything until
after US Nationals.

Renee

In a message dated 11/29/2006 1:09:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fgoss@... writes:

Yes, B/A  competing in Russia and winning that gold medal was definitely a
poor choice  for them.

Fred

----- Original Message -----
From: marney0612
To: SkateFans@yahoogroups.com
Sent:  Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: [SkateFans] Re:  Lambiel Out of NHK


I think Belbin and Agosto would have been  wise to do the same rather
than competing in Cup of  Russia

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "naomipaiss"  <Naomi@...> wrote:
>
> --- In  SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Loosemore <sandra@>
>  wrote:
> >
> > "Margaret Burwell"  <burwellm@> wrote:
> > >
> > >  Does anyone know what the problem is? If it is a cold, flu or
>  something
> > > similar, it is usually specified in the  press release.
> Referring to
> > >  unspecified "health problems" us usually limited to something
>  more chronic.
> >
> > I kind of assume  Lambiel developed a sudden allergy to




Renee
a bit skating obsessed, but it's  legal


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, B/A competing in Russia and winning that gold medal was definitely a poor
choice for them.

Fred

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: marney0612
   To: SkateFans@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 10:00 AM
   Subject: [SkateFans] Re: Lambiel Out of NHK


   I think Belbin and Agosto would have been wise to do the same rather
   than competing in Cup of Russia

   --- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "naomipaiss" <Naomi@...> wrote:
   >
   > --- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Loosemore <sandra@>
   > wrote:
   > >
   > > "Margaret Burwell" <burwellm@> wrote:
   > > >
   > > > Does anyone know what the problem is? If it is a cold, flu or
   > something
   > > > similar, it is usually specified in the press release.
   > Referring to
   > > > unspecified "health problems" us usually limited to something
   > more chronic.
   > >
   > > I kind of assume Lambiel developed a sudden allergy to skating
   his
   > > new program against Oda and Takahashi, and/or going to the
   GPF. ;-
   > )
   > > Swiss Nationals are next week, BTW.
   > >
   > > -Sandra the cynic
   >
   > Yep, that's my assumption, too. Also after watching Joubert bury
   the
   > field by 40 or so points two weeks in a row, he'd rather not take
   > the risk of losing to him at GPF. (Although Oda and Takahashi are
   > both certainly capable of beating him in Japan, not a fun thought
   > either for the World Champion.)
   >
   > Naomi
   >
   > PS: If no-one answered Ben about YouTube, it's simple...just go to
   > YouTube.com and type in the skater's name into the search engine
   and
   > voila, some kind or obsessed soul has uploaded every performance
   > from the GP, even some of the really obscure ones.
   >






------------------------------------------------------------------------------


   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.19/556 - Release Date: 11/28/06 3:22
PM


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

First he tells something about his boots that lasts him 6 months, and using
air freshener in them help people live with him in the restroom :)

Then he talks about his objectives : winning titles, worlds euros and olys,
but with a BIG performace each time.

That's it ;)

Marie
2006/11/29, Mary E. Tyler <dejahvu@...>:
>
>   Now why aren't American fluff pieces as revealing as this one?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxYY2TQNwi8
>
> Anyone's French better than mine? I have no idea what's being said.
>
> dej, ah, cheesecake...
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

dej asks: Anyone's French better than mine?

I couldn't catch all of it, but as he was spraying his skate, he said, "This is
good magic." And then he said something I didn't quite catch, and then he said,
"The goals of sport are simple: to carry off the titles at Europeans, Worlds,
and Olympics. For that reason, I want to give good performances."

I think in this clip, the visuals are much more interesting than the words.  :)

Pamela Tanton


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

San Diego's NBC affiliate has a "Christmas at
Horton Square" event every year, and Sasha Cohen
is the guest skater tonight.

It airs at 7:30pm tonight, right before Christmas
at Rockefellar Center.

Alex D.
dralexd@...



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com

--- Ben Currie <ncurrie40@...> wrote:
> I want people with advanced taste, developed over years of careful
> and open observation to be on the panels and to use what they have
> learned aesthetically ... as long as their views are HONEST and
> free
> of any conflict of interest, letting their mere personal
> preferences
> run free wont be a problem compared to the current system under the
> current field of panel candidates.

If the component marks especially Choreography and Interpretation are
to be meaningful (or "Artistic Impression" in the old system, if it
really means artistic coherence and not just how well skated a
program was), the evaluators need to be knowledgeable about aesthetic
principles and artistic form. Although some skating judges may have
that training, it's probably better learned from years of experience
in the arts than from competitive skating, even ice dance, as it has
been practiced historically.

The biggest argument in favor of having separate judges evaluating
technique and aesthetics would be that different training is required
to evaluate each especially at the highest levels. A few individuals
might excel at both, but I'd want to ensure that technical judges
have themselves skated at a reasonably advanced level and that
aesthetic judges have advanced training in visual and/or performing
arts and familiarity with aesthetic traditions beyond European high
art. Of course we'd still have differences in experience and taste
between individuals, but at least there would be more depth to each
of them.

If ice dancing is a sport that belongs in the Olympics and at the
same world championships as the freestyle disciplines, then I think
technical content and execution should drive the results, with
aesthetic quality an added bonus that may sometimes tip the balance
between teams that are close in technical ability and that makes ice
dancing more enjoyable for audiences than mere technical exercises to
music.

(Of course, superior technique often produces superior aesthetics in
terms of control over the blade and the body to do what the
choreography calls for at any given moment. A weaker technician can't
perform good choreography as well as a technical master can perform
any choreography, good or bad.)

I would love to see a venue for dance on ice in a broader sense to be
showcased and to reward aesthetic value above all. I'm not sure that
a sport competition is the best context in which to do so. And I'm
certain that limiting it to male-female duos is far too limiting of
the artistic possibilities of the medium.

naomi wrote:

> You mean Dobrin. I liked him too but am worried that he'll never get
> decent choreo, he's a bit like a young Plushy and he's got Irina's
> coach and that's not promising.

OTOH, if he trains with Zhanna Gromova then he must be based in Moscow
and Moscow may have a better selection of choreographers than St.
Petersburg.  Ilia Averbukh, Aleksandr Zhulin and Drobiazko/Vanagas are
all based there.

Candace

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "marney0612" <marney0612@...> wrote:
>
> I think Belbin and Agosto would have been wise to do the same rather
> than competing in Cup of Russia ...


Over the years dance teams that have wisely blown-off the GP circuit,
have eneded up doing better at worlds than they appeared to be slotted
for ...

nothing can beat concentrating on training the program;

competition takes away from practising dance stroking !!!!!!

Ben

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Ellyn Kestnbaum <ekestnbaum@...>

> I'm sure individual judges have their personal aesthetic preferences
too. I would hate for those preferences to drive the decisions about
competitive results. >>ellyn



I know. I know.

Fear of an artistic planet ... [incert my standard rap about how
subjectivity is our friend]

Some observers of ice dance are in a better position to judge it in
competition ... let's call them "CONNAISSEURS"

such people do exist .... though as hardly any of them are actually
international judges, you might not realise it ....

reducing aesthetic perception to mere personal preferences, of
course, is meant to demean the art-side as constituting mere likes
and dislikes ... so that not only is the art-side subjective, but it
is more than that, it is unsubstantial ...

If ice dancing is only kitsch, if its cultural significance is on
apar with with velvet painting s of Elivs, than of course you are
right and no care need be talen to ensure that the judging panel has
true connaisseurs ....

I want people with advanced taste, developed over years of careful
and open observation to be on the panels and to use what they have
learned aesthetically ... as long as their views are HONEST and free
of any conflict of interest, letting their mere personal preferences
run free wont be a problem compared to the current system under the
current field of panel candidates.

Ben Currie

I think Belbin and Agosto would have been wise to do the same rather
than competing in Cup of Russia

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "naomipaiss" <Naomi@...> wrote:
>
> --- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Loosemore <sandra@>
> wrote:
> >
> > "Margaret Burwell" <burwellm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone know what the problem is?  If it is a cold, flu or
> something
> > > similar, it is usually specified in the press release.
> Referring to
> > > unspecified "health problems" us usually limited to something
> more chronic.
> >
> > I kind of assume Lambiel developed a sudden allergy to skating
his
> > new program against Oda and Takahashi, and/or going to the
GPF.  ;-
> )
> > Swiss Nationals are next week, BTW.
> >
> > -Sandra the cynic
>
> Yep, that's my assumption, too. Also after watching Joubert bury
the
> field by 40 or so points two weeks in a row, he'd rather not take
> the risk of losing to him at GPF. (Although Oda and Takahashi are
> both certainly capable of beating him in Japan, not a fun thought
> either for the World Champion.)
>
> Naomi
>
> PS: If no-one answered Ben about YouTube, it's simple...just go to
> YouTube.com and type in the skater's name into the search engine
and
> voila, some kind or obsessed soul has uploaded every performance
> from the GP, even some of the really obscure ones.
>

To be honest, I'd rather pay for skating and get better coverage. I hate that we
miss so much of an event and are subjected to endless fluff pieces. I'd love to
be able to see an entire event as a webcast ... as it's happening, and not a
week or 2 later!!!
   Norma

Elizabeth <spencer_ehs@...> wrote:
           Interesting news form USFSA:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061127/sp_afp/ifskateusabaseball_06112721
1059

Basically, the USFSA is beginning a partnership with Major League
Baseball to further develop the webcasts we've seen this season. It
also looks like the webcasts will soon only be available only by paid
subscriptions.

I read this after reading all the posts here that no one is too
interested on following the GP on TV but finding it more enjoyable to
follow on YouTube. Which made me think of a tiny article I read in
Newsweek a few weeks ago about that other ice skating sport that does
not fall under the ISU's domain.

Apparently, the NHL is having a similar occurance with its fan base
after losing a season due to labor disagreements. The article
described how hockey is not often on TV now, it has a booming
following on the web with blogs and webcasts. The article in Newsweek
was slightly longer, but here's what I could find on the website:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15188190/site/newsweek/

Looks like skating's future could be digital as well.

Elizabeth






---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get
things done faster.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Loosemore <sandra@...>
wrote:
>
> "Margaret Burwell" <burwellm@...> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know what the problem is?  If it is a cold, flu or
something
> > similar, it is usually specified in the press release.
Referring to
> > unspecified "health problems" us usually limited to something
more chronic.
>
> I kind of assume Lambiel developed a sudden allergy to skating his
> new program against Oda and Takahashi, and/or going to the GPF.  ;-
)
> Swiss Nationals are next week, BTW.
>
> -Sandra the cynic

Yep, that's my assumption, too. Also after watching Joubert bury the
field by 40 or so points two weeks in a row, he'd rather not take
the risk of losing to him at GPF. (Although Oda and Takahashi are
both certainly capable of beating him in Japan, not a fun thought
either for the World Champion.)

Naomi

PS: If no-one answered Ben about YouTube, it's simple...just go to
YouTube.com and type in the skater's name into the search engine and
voila, some kind or obsessed soul has uploaded every performance
from the GP, even some of the really obscure ones.