In a message dated 2/28/2006 11:05:14 P.M. Central Standard Time,
slainson@... writes:

Tara  didn't get much negative press.


There's some revisionist history.

Joelle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: <sk8writerb@...>
To: <SkateFans@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:47 AM
Subject: [SkateFans] Questions about Calgary - transportation, hotel,
restaurants & things to do


>
> I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I missed the
discussion if it
> was.
>
> Is anyone in Calgary familiar with the Sandman Hotel located at 888
7th Ave,
> SW - is it acceptable in quality and how is the neighborhood?  I am
told they
> have 3 1/2 stars and are right along the C-train route by 7th Avenue
which is
> the free part of the train route.
>
I've never been to Calgary, but there are 33 reviews of the Sandman
Hotel here:
(http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g154913-d155241-Reviews-Sandm
an_Hotel-Calgary_Alberta.html)



--
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At 5:31 AM +0000 3/1/06, iceickles wrote:
>
>
>One instance of Tara getting positive press proves your point? Amazing.

I cited some examples of negative press that I recalled and the
reasons, and you said she DIDN'T get negative press in one of those
instances. So what negative press examples do you have in mind?

Suzanne

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Lainson <slainson@...> wrote:
>
> At 5:01 AM +0000 3/1/06, iceickles wrote:
> >
> >They? Pat Lipinski threw a hissy fit. I remember Tara was praised for
> >her behavior at the White House especially in the way she ignored her
> >mom's embarassing tantrum.
>
> Well, then I guess that proves my point. Tara didn't get much
negative press.
>
> Suzanne
>

One instance of Tara getting positive press proves your point? Amazing.

At 5:01 AM +0000 3/1/06, iceickles wrote:
>
>They? Pat Lipinski threw a hissy fit. I remember Tara was praised for
>her behavior at the White House especially in the way she ignored her
>mom's embarassing tantrum.

Well, then I guess that proves my point. Tara didn't get much negative press.

Suzanne

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "louis917" <louis917@...> wrote:
>
> "Marce Schulz" <marceschulz@> wrote:
>
> > So let me get this straight. It was bad that the media over-hyped
> > Michelle Kwan, but it was good that Scott over-hyped Tara
Lipinski
> > because two wrongs make a right?
>
> I, personally, have far less objection to a commentator over-hyping
a
> skater that the general media has ripped to shreds.  I don't know
that
> any other skater in history could have dealt with the negative press
> that Lipinski received.
>
> > And Louis, my comments were about Scott Hamilton's over-the-top
> > hyping of Tara Lipinski. Why did you think that had anything to
do
> > with Michelle Kwan?
>
> Because, like it or not, the media tore down Lipinski to promote
Kwan.
>  If the 1997 World team had been Lipinski, Bobek, and Nikodinov, I
> imagine Lipinski would have gotten much better press.
>
> Louis

The media led by Christine Brennan, a dinner companion to the Kwan
family at 98 and 99 Nationals.
>

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Suzanne Lainson <slainson@...> wrote:
>
> At 12:51 AM +0000 3/1/06, louis917 wrote:
> >
> >I, personally, have far less objection to a commentator over-hyping a
> >skater that the general media has ripped to shreds.  I don't know
that
> >any other skater in history could have dealt with the negative press
> >that Lipinski received.
>
> Lipinski got very little negative press relative to both Harding and
Kerrigan.
>
> Where Team Lipiniski got negative press was when they complained that
> they didn't get enough attention at the White House

They? Pat Lipinski threw a hissy fit. I remember Tara was praised for
her behavior at the White House especially in the way she ignored her
mom's embarassing tantrum.

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Loosemore <sandra@...> wrote:
> The scenario that seems most likely to me is that the USFSA would
> give her a bye through regionals for competing in their fall
> cheesefest (her regional is the first week in October).  Dunno
> what they'd comeup with to get her out of sectionals in mid-
> November, though, if she doesn't get a Grand Prix around that  OTOH,
> time.

The GP event in China is in early November, isn't it? Given the
comments from the Chinese Coach about beloved athletes, I think
Michelle is very much respected there. I'd be very surprised if she
didn't score an invitation to China.

Sorry for the blank post - I don't know what happened.

Anyway, Michelle won't be seeded, and will finally be allowed to do
Skate America ONLY!

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Godfrey <kgodfrey@...> wrote:
>
> At 05:37 PM 2/28/2006, MHardy3023@... wrote:
> >Since Michelle Kwan didn't compete at the last US
Nationals....would she
> >have to compete at the sectionals and regionals if she wants to
be
> >eligible to skate at US Nationals in 2007?
> >
> >If so, when was the last time she had to do that?  I believe 1994?
>
> Her first senior season, 1992/1993.
> She won her regionals (SWP) and sectionals (Pacific Coast) before
finishing
> 6th at Nationals.
> In the 1993/1994 season, she went to Skate America (7th) and
Junior Worlds
> (1st).
>
> http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=2267
>
> Since she's currently listed along with Sasha Cohen in the USFSA's
A Team,
> I presume she's in the running for international assignments.
>
>  >>Kathy Godfrey
>    kgodfrey@...
>

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Godfrey <kgodfrey@...> wrote:
>
> At 05:37 PM 2/28/2006, MHardy3023@... wrote:
> >Since Michelle Kwan didn't compete at the last US
Nationals....would she
> >have to compete at the sectionals and regionals if she wants to
be
> >eligible to skate at US Nationals in 2007?
> >
> >If so, when was the last time she had to do that?  I believe 1994?
>
> Her first senior season, 1992/1993.
> She won her regionals (SWP) and sectionals (Pacific Coast) before
finishing
> 6th at Nationals.
> In the 1993/1994 season, she went to Skate America (7th) and
Junior Worlds
> (1st).
>
> http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=2267
>
> Since she's currently listed along with Sasha Cohen in the USFSA's
A Team,
> I presume she's in the running for international assignments.
>
>  >>Kathy Godfrey
>    kgodfrey@...
>

Suzanne Lainson wrote:
> At 8:32 PM -0500 2/28/06, Jennifer Lyon wrote:
>
>> Or else the reporter simply interviews or does a fluff piece on the
>> parents. In most cases, the nutty, overzealous moms and dads come off
>> as being whacko without the reporter having to ask them much of
>> anything.
>>
>
> Tiffany Chin's mother hung herself in a televised interview. In
> skating circles she already had a reputation, and then she displayed
> it on camera.
>
> Suzanne
>

Ah yes, I believe the fluff piece was narrated by John Tesh. I can still
hear his tone of voice when he came back in after Marjorie got going on
a tirade and stopped the cameras, saying she berated Tiffany for 10
minutes in front of the camera crew.

I think Katy is a pleasing skater to watch, but her edges are weak,
much weaker than either Kimmie or Emily.

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Moore" <scmoore@...> wrote:
>
> I read somewhere that both Kimmee and Emily are going to go on to
Vancouver
> in 2010.
> I'm intrigued by Katy Taylor too and I think we'll have some good
U.S.
> competition to watch in the upcoming few years.
> Do you think Katy Taylor has what it takes to be U.S. champion
and/or World
> and Olympic champ?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SkateFans@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SkateFans@yahoogroups.com]
On
> Behalf Of iceickles
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 1:08 PM
> To: SkateFans@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SkateFans] Re: Emily on Martha - "maybe next time!"
>
>
> --- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "tinkpixiedust" <oprasngr@>
wrote:
> >
> > Emily is on Martha Stewart right now, making a chocolate pudding.
> > There was some sort of gold dust that goes on the whipped cream
> > topping, and Emily remarked, "oh you have gold dust!"
> >
> > Martha:  "That was in case you brought home the gold"
> >
> > Emily:  "maybe next time..."
> >
> > So, maybe Emily *is* planning to stay in for Vancouver.
> >
> > Tink *~*~*
> >
> Why is this newsworthy? Was there ever any doubt? What skater
barely
> starting out wouldn't try for a second Olympics. With that out of
the
> way I hope Katy Taylor passes Emily by next year.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------~-~>
> SkateFans posts are copyright their original author and may not be
quoted
> elsewhere without explicit written permission. Those who post to
SkateFans
> do
> not automatically cede their copyright to any person or entity.
> ------------------------------------------_->
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

All this statistics discussion made me go look in Skatabase at the
results of the Olympic ladies competition over the last 50 years.

The number of times a US lady brought home gold = 7

The number of times a US lady came in 4th = 7

How weird!

Other fun stuff that happened over the last 50 years:

-  15 Winter Olympic games were held.  So, there should have been 15 x
3 = 45 ladies medals available over the last 50 years.
-  US Ladies brought home 19 of those medals; 7 Gold, 8 Silver, and 4
bronze
-  There was only 1 Olympics when the US ladies didn't bring home any
medal at all - 1964.  14 out of 15 Olympics (93% of them), US ladies
brought home medals.  So, I guess if you want to place bets, bet on
the US ladies.
- A total of 10 US ladies competed at the Olympics twice (Albright,
Heiss, Flemming, Noyes, Lynn, Fratianne, Kerrigan, Harding, Kwan,
Cohen).  9 of them brought home at least one medal (all but Noyes).  4
of them brought home two medals (Albright, Heiss, Kerrigan, Kwan).
-  Of the 7 ladies who "brought home 4th", three of them competed in 2
Olympics (Noyes, Harding, Cohen).
-  Noyes came in 8th in 1964, and 4th in 1968.
-  Harding flip-flops that, coming in 4th in 1992, and 8th in 1994.
-  This leaves Cohen as the only US lady to come in 4th at one
Olympics, and hop up to the podium in the next Olympics.
-  Other non-medal-to-medal hops include Flemming (6th to 1st), Lynn
(9th to 2nd), and Fratianne (8th to 2nd).
- A total of 5 US ladies have come in 6th at the Olympics, including
Meissner.  Of those 5, only one of them returned to a subsequent
Olympics, and this time, she brought home gold (Flemming).  So I think
Kimmie should buy a lucky Peggy Flemming t-shirt and sleep in it every
night before a competition.

I originally went to Skatabase to see what the chances of medaling
might be in 2010, for a non-medalist 2006 US lady Olympian.   Out of
10 repeat US Lady Olympians, 4 have done it (Flemming, Lynn,
Fratianne, Cohen)in the last 50 years.  That's 40% of the repeat US
ladies, and 12% of the total individuals (33) that the US sent to
compete in the ladies Olympic competition over the last 50 years.  So,
I guess if the numbers mean anything, those are Kimmie and Emily's
chances of medalling in 2010.

Lots of other interesting stuffs to analyze.  I'm sure someone has
looked at this before, so sorry if this is a been-there-done-that post
for some of you, but I find it fascinating.

This time I was just looking at the US ladies; maybe next time, I'll
look at the whole international field.

Tink *~*~*

>Tara had a manager and a PR person from a very early age - before she won
>the Olympic Festival.

But long after she won a hard contested national gold in artistic
roller with a program that included elements more commonly seen done
by experienced competitors in with world class divisions.

Tara was already a world class competitor before she ever stepped on
the ice. For whatever her parents flaws, they knew what an
exceptional kid they had.

dej
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I learned never to empty the well of my writing, but always stop when
there was still something there in the deep part of the well, and let
it refill at night from the springs that fed it.--Ernest Hemingway
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the midst of winter, I finally realized that deep within me there
lay an invincible summer."--Albert Camus
----------------------------------------------------------------------
2001-2003 Golden Pen "Most Outspoken"  I am Writer, hear me Pontificate!

At 8:32 PM -0500 2/28/06, Jennifer Lyon wrote:
>
>Or else the reporter simply interviews or does a fluff piece on the
>parents. In most cases, the nutty, overzealous moms and dads come off
>as being whacko without the reporter having to ask them much of
>anything.

Tiffany Chin's mother hung herself in a televised interview. In
skating circles she already had a reputation, and then she displayed
it on camera.

Suzanne

At 8:26 PM -0500 2/28/06, Sleeping Dragon Sports wrote:
>
>Tara had a manager and a PR person from a very early age - before she won
>the Olympic Festival.  Long before the Nagano Olympics, Tara had an official
>website, something that was quite rare for skaters at that time, and a
>beautiful piece of promo it was too.  Send an email to Tara and you got a
>response.

Yes, Team Tara did tend to represent everything a lot of sports
journalists hate about kids in high visibility sports -- the agents,
the hard sell, the pushy parents.

Suzanne

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Godfrey <kgodfrey@...> wrote:
>
> This is the new book about the Sabena plane
> crash that killed the entire 1961 US World Team,
> including Maribel Vinson Owen and her children).
>
> I live one town away from Winchester, Massachusetts,
> where Maribel Vinson Owen lived most of her life.
> Thanks to this book (which I borrowed from the
> Winchester library), I now know where the Vinson
> house was; I'll have to drive by sometime to
> see if the house is still there.
>
> Some of the information in this book has been
> published in some form or another before, especially
> in the Boston area (Dudley Richards, Maribel Y.
> Owen's pair partner who died in the crash, was
> a family friend of the Kennedys, and Ted Kennedy's
> Harvard roommate, adding to the
> local interest from the Vinson connection),
> but I hadn't read much about the Westerfields before
> (Steffi [Stephanie] took silver behind Laurence Owen;
> like Derrick Delmore, she was also an accomplished
> pianist), or about other team members.  The
> book also discusses at length the technical
> content of the programs at Nationals that year.
> (As I said in my review yesterday of Hines'
> "Figure Skating: A History," I'm always looking
> for that.)  There are also a fair number of
> photographs, and a fair amount about top
> Canadians of the day in connection with the
> discussion of the 1961 North American championships.
>
> Interesting trivia:  Apparently we have the younger
> Maribel to thank for the USFSA rescheduling Nationals
> to be before instead of after Worlds, as it was
> in Albright's and Heiss' day; she made a presentation
> to the USFSA board at the age of 15 to convince them.
> And Laurence had just learned that she'd been accepted
> at Radcliffe, which would have made her the third
> generation of Vinson Cliffies.
>
> Worth a look.
>
>  >>Kathy Godfrey
>    kgodfrey@...
>
Although I found it a good read I really wish someone had taken on
this task years ago when many of those who are now long deceased
could have been interviewed.  Some of them because of the intense
pain involved may have refused such as Gertrude Vinson, mother of
Maribel and grandmother of Laurence and Little Maribel and Myra
Westerfeld.  Also not much about Doug Ramsay, the alternate, added
when Tim Brown withdrew from the world team.  Surprisingly Dick
Button and Frank Carroll are not quoted in the book.  Dick would
have known Big Maribel and did the commentary for the 1961 Natls.
Frank was a student of Big Maribel.

One glaring error, albeit with no relation to the 1961 event, the
author claims there were 26,000 in attendance at Skate America when
Totmianina and Marinin had the horrific fall.  USFS could only dream
of such a crowd.

Interesting tidbit, the collision between the Hadley's and the
Protopopov's in the warm-up at the 1960 Olympics.

Meagan Leigh

At 12:51 AM +0000 3/1/06, louis917 wrote:
>
>I, personally, have far less objection to a commentator over-hyping a
>skater that the general media has ripped to shreds.  I don't know that
>any other skater in history could have dealt with the negative press
>that Lipinski received.

Lipinski got very little negative press relative to both Harding and Kerrigan.

Where Team Lipiniski got negative press was when they complained that
they didn't get enough attention at the White House, when they tended
to give conflicting reasons for many of their actions, and when they
landed on the wrong side of SOI.

Suzanne

Trish wrote:

>>(Patrick and I believe we qualify as a group)

> Do you get group rates for your ice time?

We haven't actually skated yet.

>> Suggestions for choreographers are also welcome.

> I think you should consider Susan Strohman.  Anyone who can do a rotating
> swastika on stage deserves a chance to bring that creativity to figure
> skating.

Hmmm, 'Springtime for Hitler'...  I wonder if Patrick would reconsider his
violin costume.

> A chance to work with a team of this caliber and potential might, and I
> have
> to stress *might* lure the immortal Ljudmilia Skatelikehellova out of
> "retirement" <g>.

Milli???  We hadn't dared to hope...  Only she could choreograph our dream
program, 'Springtime for Zorro and Carmen at Swan Lake.'

Bubbles
---
"There are known knowns. These are the things we know that we know.  There
are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't
know.  But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know
we don't know."  (Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, clarifying U.S.
policy at a Pentagon briefing)

> >> The disheveled guy with long black hair is David Avdish, one of
> >> Plushenko's choreographers.
> >
> > As Trish asks the obvious question - what choreography?  Someone
> > actually wants to take credit for that dreck?  Was there any
> > choreography in that long program?
>
> Well *someone* had to decide how many jumps he did before
> spins and footwork! ;-p
>
> shallah

Oh, Shallah, you've reminded me of the old commercial that asked about
prunes: "Are three enough? Are six too many?"

Apparently six was j-u-s-t right.

Marce

>> The disheveled guy with long black hair is David Avdish, one of
>> Plushenko's choreographers.
>
> As Trish asks the obvious question - what choreography?  Someone actually
> wants to take credit for that dreck?  Was there any choreography in that
> long program?

Well *someone* had to decide how many jumps he did before spins and
footwork! ;-p

shallah

"skatephile22" <Skatephile@...> wrote:

    Technically yes at this point because I think the wording in the
    USFS rulebook says byes to Nationals can also be granted to
    medalists at the most recent(?) Olympics and so 2002 wouldn't apply
    in her case (can someone check on that?). Then again, I wouldn't be
    surprised if a rule were passed at this year's Governing Council
    meeting that would allow her to bypass Regionals/Sectionals.

I imagine the USFSA will do everything possible to get Kwan out of
regionals and sectionals, just because of the security considerations.
The place would be mobbed, and they just aren't set up at these events
to keep skaters away from the fans.

Kathy Godfrey <kgodfrey@...> wrote:

    Since she's currently listed along with Sasha Cohen in the USFSA's A Team,
    I presume she's in the running for international assignments.

Well, according to the criteria for next year's envelopes, Kwan
wouldn't qualify for anything other than the Reserve Team, but
envelopes determine funding levels and not international assignments,
anyway.  But Kwan's ISU ranking might drop so much that she
wouldn't be eligible to be invited to any Grand Prix event except
Skate America.

The scenario that seems most likely to me is that the USFSA would give
her a bye through regionals for competing in their fall cheesefest
(her regional is the first week in October).  Dunno what they'd come
up with to get her out of sectionals in mid-November, though, if she
doesn't get a Grand Prix around that time.  OTOH, Pacific Coasts is
going to be held in Bozeman MT this year -- maybe the remoteness of
the location would help to keep the crowds away.

I suppose another possibility is that the USFSA will change the bye
rules so that all skaters who compete on the senior GP get byes to
Nationals.  Right now the rule is that only those who qualify for the
final get byes, but in most cases slots at the final aren't determined
until after sectionals anyway, so it's kind of a useless rule.  If they
did that, then they could invite Kwan to Skate America and it wouldn't
matter if she got a second assignment or not.

-Sandra the cynic

Suzanne Lainson <slainson@...> wrote:

> At 6:31 AM -0500 2/28/06, trudee44081@... wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> When those pieces of news are either announced or part of the public
>> record, yes. Ordinarily, you don't see reporters snooping around and
>> reporting "So-and-so has been abused by her father."
>>
>
> Actually you do. There have been several cases in tennis. Mary Pierce
> in particular comes to mind.
>
> Sometimes they wait until the father is barred from the events (which
> is a real news story) and other times they just hint at it like
> saying the father looked angry when his daughter lost the match, or
> that the father has no real job and packs his family up to move from
> place to place, or that the kid doesn't have a real coach because no
> one wants to work with the father, etc.

Or else the reporter simply interviews or does a fluff piece on the
parents. In most cases, the nutty, overzealous moms and dads come off
as being whacko without the reporter having to ask them much of
anything.

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, "Ben Currie" <ncurrie40@...> wrote:
> SO? The kid is 12 to 14 this season ... Louis? Slyvia? tell us who
is
> the best, or anyway most talented, 12 or 13 year old ladies skater
in
> the US?
>
> Cuz the next "one" may be her.


Maybe....but it is worth noting that between the 2002 and 2006
Olympics, none of the major competitions (2002-2005 Worlds and 2006
Olympics) had a medalist younger than 18.  Kostner was 18 in 2005;
Sasha was 19 when she won her medal in 2004.  Other than that,
they've all been old ladies in their 20s.

Maybe between the age requirements and the financial incentive to
stay eligible, we've seen the last of the 16 year old gold medalists.

Ingrid

Marce Shultz wrote:
>
> > And Louis, my comments were about Scott Hamilton's over-the-top
> > hyping of Tara Lipinski. Why did you think that had anything to do
> > with Michelle Kwan?
>
Louis responded

> Because, like it or not, the media tore down Lipinski to promote Kwan.
>  If the 1997 World team had been Lipinski, Bobek, and Nikodinov, I
> imagine Lipinski would have gotten much better press.
>

I highly doubt that The Media decided that they were going to play
favourites, or that they were going to tear down one young phenom in order
to boost the other.  There's nothing for them to gain in playing these kinds
of games.  I think that members of the media had issues with Team Lipinski
right from the get go.  They were slick marketing this kid before she ever
won anything of note, in ways that would have caused even John Nicks to
blush.

Tara had a manager and a PR person from a very early age - before she won
the Olympic Festival.  Long before the Nagano Olympics, Tara had an official
website, something that was quite rare for skaters at that time, and a
beautiful piece of promo it was too.  Send an email to Tara and you got a
response.  Members of the media had all heard the Tara Story, the
nation-wide search for just the right coach to develop this amazing young
talent, the family that lived in two cities so that Tara could pursue her
dream, and the darker stories that circulated too.  Even in 1997, I heard
the darker stories from skating people in Toronto who had seen Tara working
with Bezic.

I've also heard that the media thought that Team Tara was looking to cash in
on the kid and they wanted no part of it, so they went out of their way to
sabotage their careful PR campaign.  Team Tara self-destructed in many
ways - Berg's dunderheaded handling of Tara's CBS contract, Pat Lipinski's
tantrums over perceived slights like the presentation of the jacket to
President Clinton.  It wasn't hard to make these people look bad.

Notice how I've managed to demonstrate that The Media may have had its
reasons for not getting behind Tara Lipinski without having to bring
Michelle's name into the discussion at all.  Not everything is about KWAN,
Louis.

Liz

> Trish wrote:
> >> The USA's pairs problem is solved.  A friend (6'3', 280 lbs) and I
> >> (5'7", 145 lbs) intend to skate at Vancouver...  Suggestions for our
> >> exhibition are welcome.
>
> > I think the vastly under-utilized "Phantom of the Opera" - but who's
> > doing your choreography?
>
> Debbie Allen, who has done so many magnificent group numbers for the Oscar
> telecasts (Patrick and I believe we qualify as a group).

Do you get group rates for your ice time?

We particularly
> admire her tap dance number to music from 'Saving Private Ryan.'
> Suggestions for choreographers are also welcome, but it would be hard to
top
> Debbie.

I think you should consider Susan Strohman.  Anyone who can do a rotating
swastika on stage deserves a chance to bring that creativity to figure
skating.  To this day, I can't imagine why a synchro team hasn't attempted
"Springtime for Hitler" on Ice.

A chance to work with a team of this caliber and potential might, and I have
to stress *might* lure the immortal Ljudmilia Skatelikehellova out of
"retirement" <g>.

Trish

"Ben Currie" <ncurrie40@...> wrote:

> I've read Louis' review of those Kwan free skates ...back when Louis
> still had his comp reviews located in one place ....
>
> er, cough, ..... a ...... certain ..... amount ........ of
> shamelesss ...........  gushing ....is inovlved.

I still stand by the excellent of Kwan's 1998 Nationals skates (both
of them). and I admit that I had Kwan first in Nagano.

But Lipinski was a lot closer than what anyone (including me) gave her
credit for, and Scott Hamilton saw it.  I recognize the guts in that
call, and the fact that 6 judges agreed commands some respect.

Louis

--- In SkateFans@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Godfrey <kgodfrey@...> wrote:
>
> This is the new book about the Sabena plane
> crash that killed the entire 1961 US World Team,
> including Maribel Vinson Owen and her children).
>
It turned up on my dining room table last week and I thought that I
really had lost it. I had no memory of ordering it from Amazon.

Mystery solved. My husband bought it. Larry Pierce, an ice dancer who
died in the crash, was a friend of his.

Naomi, who will post thoughts on it when I get to read it

"ilana_konerding" <ikonerding@...> wrote:

> I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but Mao, after competing
> Senior all season, and won the Grand Prix Final, is going to Junior
> Worlds.

The senior circuit will have been good preparation for the much
tougher junior circuit ;).  I think this year David Forberg's 1997
prediction that the medalists at Junior Worlds will be better than the
medalists at Senior Worlds (and Olympics) will finally come true.

Louis

Frank wrote:

>Guy-guy erotica is a 'ghetto'. Girl-girl erotica isn't.

Wow, I can tell you're not in media fandom with that statement ;-)
Just put "slash" into Google and see what turns up...

Michele