Hello Elliot - Welcome to the group!

You certainly hightlight some good points and I would like to add or
focus on another.

How many of you can honestly say that the skills you acquired from
kumite have actually saved your life in a genuine life or death
situation? Not many I suspect.

Points, medals and trophies are a poor substitute for life saving
skills, yet the telephone book is filled with dozens of world
champions, 10th dan grandmasters, and style founders. Then there is
a host of TKD schools, but that's another story.

I wonder how many of the telephone book wonders can answer the life
or death question? Few to none I suspect.

Why the focus on life or death kumite? Well that's what Funakoshi
believed was "real kumite" and exactly why he rejected the idea of
tournament kumite. It would water down karate's "killing points"
into love taps for a piece of metal you hang around your neck or a
plastic trophy to display on a shelf.

Speaking for myself, I have my own collection of medals and trophies,
but more importantly, I can also, and unfortunately answer yes to the
life or death question. As a policeman now for nearly 25 years I
have had to rely on karate skills a several occasions. I know what
Funakoshi meant, I have had to save myself - by myself. No points,
no tagging, no rules, just survival.

OSS!!









--- In ShotoJukuKai@yahoogroups.com, "elliotkleiner" <elliot@o...>
wrote:
> Hello fellow Shoto-Karate-ka,
>
> I've been "sandbagging" and reading your conversations and have
found
> a place to jump in. The issue of Point Kumite in training. Does it
> have significance and is it adding or subtracting from the art?
>
> I have a view that may be a little unique.
>
> I tend to draw a big thick line between Kata and Kumite for
grading /
> advancement / real life and points / tournaments / trophies. One
kind
> of Kumite is for the development of traditional skills, the other
is
> a sport with no greater significance to Martial Arts than Football.
>
> Yes, a sweeping generalisation may be that Kihon, Kata and Kumite
> must all be represented with equal balance in the training regimen
of
> a good dojo BUT the KIND of Kumite that is practised should be
> defined so that students never need to ask this question of either
> themselves, or their Sensei.
>
> We've all seen TV footage of tournaments with music, coloured Gis,
> acrobatics and all of that absolute RUBBISH that people try to pass
> off as Karate. That's the only thing that upsets me. Take a kid,
> teach him how to do back-flips and scream on cue, dress him in a
> purple outfit with glitter and flashing lights, tie a samurai band
> around his head and get him to dance to club music. That's all fine
> if you live in Vegas but for God's sake don't put a black belt on
him
> and give him the idea that he's a practitioner of Martial Arts.
>
> In my dojo, we practice ALL forms of recognised Kumite. Gohon,
> Sanbon, Kihon-Ippon, Jiyu-Ippon and Jiyu (for points) however, if I
> see a student performing a technique that they cannot demonstrate,
> with real Bunkai, would actually work, that it to say - end a fight
> or a life, then it is outlawed.
>
> At the same time, we also have our tournaments for points. They are
> very social. We wear only traditional Gi with no bells & whistles.
We
> compete under WKF Rules and have qualified and certified referees &
> Judges. That's important too. If you have students like kids, what
> else can they aspire to at their level of maturity. They must have
a
> tangible goal to work towards until they achieve the maturity to
> recognise that the journey itself is the destination too. Until
then,
> tournaments are a cute substitute.
>
> In the words of my own Sensei Hachi-Dan Master Sumi, "Tournament
> fighting is merely a game we play with our friends using the skills
> we learn on our life journey, nothing more."
>
> Hope this input has been well received.
>
> Domo-Oregato!
>
> Sensei Elliot Kleiner - Karate Union of Australia
> www.kua.com.au
> Unit 6, Federation Business Centre
> 198 - 222 Young St
> Waterloo NSW 2017
> Ph: 612 9699 9669 Fx: 612 9699 9934