Thanks to JDrum for posting this at KSR.   I was going
to run through these as i had time, but i guess it's
good that the league office pays someone to do it.   I
want to get that job!

http://www.kentuckysportsreport.net/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1\
&t=015302


All that's certain is:

* Alabama is "WESTERN #1" and plays at 3:15 ET on
Friday.
* Auburn is "WESTERN #6" and plays at 7:30 ET on
Thursday.
* Georgia is either E-1 or E-2 and gets a bye.


So at any rate... it's almost Tournament Time!   If we
can't get discussion going now, i wonder if anybody
has a pulse... :)

Later,

PhilipVU94

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--- Chris Green <chrg81@...> wrote:
> With Bama losing to Arkansas tonight, hopefully UF
> can come in a put a nice
> whooping on them.  Will make the SEC race very
> interesting.

I think Florida "controls their own destiny" as they
say, but if they manage to win in Tuscaloosa and at
Rupp they probably deserve the title by acclamation.
  Of course the KSR folks envision F beating Al then
losing to K, but that seems a bit like wishful
thinking, unless the loss for Bama just sends them
into a tailspin.....

Two other tangentially Florida-related things i saw on
KSR that i'll bring up here, in case anyone has strong
reactions: (NOTE: i don't know if the people who
posted these topics on KSR are on SECHoops, but i
replied substantially along the same lines on KSR.
i'm not trying to talk behind others' backs, just
broaden the conversation a little)

Someone said that under the pre-1974 NCAA policy of
taking only the automatic qualifier from each
conference, Billy Donovan would still be looking for
his first NCAA bid with the Gators.   Such a
counterfactual hypothesis probably merits a one word
response: Whatever!   (Accompanied by me rolling my
eyes....)   But just for fun, *IF* for some reason the
NCAA had never changed that policy, then it's doubtful
the SEC would be playing a tournament to allow a lower
seed to win thru the SEC Tournament and be a poorer
representative in the NCAA.   As an aside, i think
some of the smaller conferences would be smart to
cancel their tournaments and try to get the best team
in, but i understand that their budgets may enirely
depend on conf. tournament revenue.   At any rate,
under that highly counterfactual assumption, i would
assume that Florida would have made the NCAA either in
2000 or 2001, so i have no idea why a UK fan/Donovan
skeptic would waste their time constructing scenarios
that are not just dreamy but also flawed.

Point two: someone else said that UK has "dominated"
the SEC since Pitino's departure.   That's just wacky.
   There have been a total of six (i thought it was
seven; didn't OM share in a 3-way last year, or did i
imagine that?) conference championships awarded in the
last two years.   Kentucky and Florida have won
championships both those years, so you have to go back
to 1998 just to give UK the claim of 3-out-4 and thus
a slight edge over Florida's two straight.

I know it's a silly semantic debate, but one that
shows the view of the world that in my experience
prevails among the UK faithful.   The rest of us see a
very balanced league that's probably again tops in the
nation; they see it as Adolph Rupp's Playground Redux.
    When four different teams share the conference
championship, two years later it's utter nonsense to
say anyone is "dominating" the league.

Of course they'd throw in conference tournament
championships, because to them and them alone those
are still conference championships.   Everyone else
knows that the SEC championship is exactly what it's
officially defined as, the regular season champion.
You want your "champion" determined by three games, go
join the ACC.    I've always found it somewhat odd
that conference tournaments are played in a format
that's totally unknown at any other time in the
college hoops season, three games in three days (or 4
in 4 for Ark in 2000).   It's as if Major League
Baseball used softball to determine its national
champion, or if the top players in the world at
standard chess (which measures time controls in the
hours) played a 5-minute blitz tournament to determine
their "championship".    The conference tournament is
exciting in the way fast food is yummy, but by the
third week of March no one but Kentucky fans remembers
who won it anyway.

Anyway, hopefully my anti-UK ramblings can bait some
people into posting here.  :)

peace and joy (even for UK and UT fans),
PhilipVU94

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With Bama losing to Arkansas tonight, hopefully UF can come in a put a nice
whooping on them.  Will make the SEC race very interesting.


>From: Philip Reed <ChristianEccentric@...>
>Reply-To: SECHoops@yahoogroups.com
>To: SECHoops@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [SECHoops] Just for giggles....
>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:17:47 -0800 (PST)
>
>I was thinking of posting to the list asking what
>everyone would like to see on this list (which is very
>much an open question, please feel free to respond!).
>  Then it occurred to me that one thing i'd like to see
>on this list is projections for how the season will
>turn out.   And i really wished i had done this a few
>weeks ago -- so at any rate, here it is, for amusement
>purposes only.
>
>I expect to take a lot of flak from Kentucky folks for
>having UT beat them in Atlanta, now that they seem to
>be back in their manic phase and not the depressive
>one.   Oh well.   What's the SECT without a Friday
>upset or two?
>
>ALABAMA (10-2):   @Ar W, F W, Au W, @OM L -> 13-3   W1
>OLE MISS (8-5):   @MS L, @LS W, Al W      -> 10-6   W2
>MISS STATE (6-6): @V W, OM W, Ar W, @SC L -> 9-7    W3
>LSU (4-8):        @SC L, G L, OM L, @Au L -> 4-12   W5
>ARKANSAS (4-8):   Al L, @K L, @MS L, V W  -> 5-11   W4
>AUBURN (3-9):     @F L, SC L, @Al L, LS W -> 4-12   W6
>
>LS seeded as W5 based on better divisional record than
>Au
>
>FLORIDA (8-4):    Au W, @Al L, T W, @K W  -> 10-6   E2
>GEORGIA (8-5):    @LS W, SC W, @T L       -> 10-6   E3
>KENTUCKY (8-5):   Ar W, @V W, F W         -> 11-5   E1
>TENNESSEE (6-7):  V W, @F L, G W          -> 8-8    E5
>S CAROLINA (5-7): LS W, @Au W, @G L, MS W -> 8-8    E4
>VANDERBILT (4-8): MS L, @T L, K L, @Ar L  -> 4-12   E6
>
>F seeded as E2 based on better divisional record than
>G
>SC seeded as E4 based on sweep of T
>
>Alabama projected SEC Champion
>
>SEC Tournament in Atlanta
>THURSDAY AFTERNOON
>W4 Ar - E5 T    --> T
>E4 SC - W5 LS   --> SC
>
>THURSDAY EVENING
>E3 G  - W6 Au   --> G
>W3 MS - E6 V    --> MS
>
>FRIDAY AFTERNOON
>E1 K  - T       --> T
>W1 Al - SC      --> Al
>
>FRIDAY EVENING
>W2 OM - G       --> G
>E2 F  - MS      --> F
>
>SEMIFINALS
>G - T --> T
>Al- F --> F
>
>FINAL
>T - F --> F
>
>Florida projected SEC Tournament Champion
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
>http://sports.yahoo.com


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I was thinking of posting to the list asking what
everyone would like to see on this list (which is very
much an open question, please feel free to respond!).
  Then it occurred to me that one thing i'd like to see
on this list is projections for how the season will
turn out.   And i really wished i had done this a few
weeks ago -- so at any rate, here it is, for amusement
purposes only.

I expect to take a lot of flak from Kentucky folks for
having UT beat them in Atlanta, now that they seem to
be back in their manic phase and not the depressive
one.   Oh well.   What's the SECT without a Friday
upset or two?

ALABAMA (10-2):   @Ar W, F W, Au W, @OM L -> 13-3   W1
OLE MISS (8-5):   @MS L, @LS W, Al W      -> 10-6   W2
MISS STATE (6-6): @V W, OM W, Ar W, @SC L -> 9-7    W3
LSU (4-8):        @SC L, G L, OM L, @Au L -> 4-12   W5
ARKANSAS (4-8):   Al L, @K L, @MS L, V W  -> 5-11   W4
AUBURN (3-9):     @F L, SC L, @Al L, LS W -> 4-12   W6

LS seeded as W5 based on better divisional record than
Au

FLORIDA (8-4):    Au W, @Al L, T W, @K W  -> 10-6   E2
GEORGIA (8-5):    @LS W, SC W, @T L       -> 10-6   E3
KENTUCKY (8-5):   Ar W, @V W, F W         -> 11-5   E1
TENNESSEE (6-7):  V W, @F L, G W          -> 8-8    E5
S CAROLINA (5-7): LS W, @Au W, @G L, MS W -> 8-8    E4
VANDERBILT (4-8): MS L, @T L, K L, @Ar L  -> 4-12   E6

F seeded as E2 based on better divisional record than
G
SC seeded as E4 based on sweep of T

Alabama projected SEC Champion

SEC Tournament in Atlanta
THURSDAY AFTERNOON
W4 Ar - E5 T    --> T
E4 SC - W5 LS   --> SC

THURSDAY EVENING
E3 G  - W6 Au   --> G
W3 MS - E6 V    --> MS

FRIDAY AFTERNOON
E1 K  - T       --> T
W1 Al - SC      --> Al

FRIDAY EVENING
W2 OM - G       --> G
E2 F  - MS      --> F

SEMIFINALS
G - T --> T
Al- F --> F

FINAL
T - F --> F

Florida projected SEC Tournament Champion


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The following SECHoops poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: What SEC mens basketball team will win
the out-right sec basketball regular
season conference championship title ?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- KENTUCKY, 1 votes, 20.00%
- FLORIDA, 2 votes, 40.00%
- GEORGIA, 0 votes, 0.00%
- TENNESSEE, 0 votes, 0.00%
- SOUTH   CAROLINA, 0 votes, 0.00%
- VANDERBILT, 0 votes, 0.00%
- ALABAMA, 1 votes, 20.00%
- ARKANSAS, 0 votes, 0.00%
- OLE  MISS / MISSISSIPPI, 0 votes, 0.00%
- MISSISSIPPI    STATE, 1 votes, 20.00%
- LSU / LOUISANA   STATE, 0 votes, 0.00%
- AUBURN, 0 votes, 0.00%
- NOT - SURE, 0 votes, 0.00%
- UN -DECIDED  ?, 0 votes, 0.00%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SECHoops

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

Eastern division, only Tennessee and Vanderbilt win.  Tennessee
bounces back from it's 34 point home drubbing at the hands of South
Carolina to dish out a 23 point beating of its own to Auburn... and
Vanderbilt knocks in a few threes and a sweet backdoor freshman-to-
freshman play with 5 seconds left to knock off #15 Georgia!

Florida travels to Arkansas... with no success... Ole Miss tramples
SC at home... State hands it to LSU... and last but most certainly
not least...

Bama wins at Rupp!!!  Been a long time coming for them, I know!

Anyone have any updated thoughts on the league after this crazy
stuff??

Here are the standings...

EAST:
1 Georgia 5-2
2 Florida 4-2
3 Vanderbilt 3-3
3 Kentucky 3-3
5 South Carolina 2-4
5 Tennessee 2-4

WEST:
1 Bama 5-1
2 Miss 5-2
3 Miss State 3-3
4 Arkansas 3-4
5 LSU 2-4
6 Auburn 1-5

Holwerda's day in the spotlight seems to have come sooner than
anticipated.  With starting point guard Russell Lakey out for awhile,
Holwerda (a natural shooting guard) has been promoted into the
starting point guard slot for us.  He's averaged nearly 30 minutes
per game in our wins over Auburn and South Carolina.

While his defense and all around game have been impressive, he has
yet to step up on the scoring front.  While he's hitting a remarkable
64+ % of his shots from the field, he's also very picky about
shooting the ball - as he still hasn't scored in double figures this
season.  He's too controlled, if anything, despite his excellent
athleticism.  One of these games, he's going to find himself on the
upside of a matchup imbalance (i.e., against a smaller pg) and he's
going to get a little more agressive and go off (I could see him
putting up big numbers on Saturday).  I wouldn't be surprised if he
averages 8 or 9 points and 4 or 5 assists and 3 or 4 rebounds per
game from here out (assuming Lakey doesn't return).

On another note, 6'8 C Brian Thornton has stepped up his play down
low.  He's become our only reliable center option, as it's becoming
more and more apparent that Dawid Przybyszewski is just not going to
be a post banger.  Thornton should average between 25 and 30 minutes
a game from here out, and don't be surprised if he throws up some
double doubles down the stretch.  He's had three double-digit
rebounding games (11, 11, 14) and a number of double-digit scoring
games -- but none have coincided with each other.  My bold prediction
is that if he plays 25-30 minutes against UGA (i.e., if he keeps out
of foul trouble), we'll beat Georgia by 10 on Saturday.  Otherwise,
they'll likely beat us.  Thornton should be our starting center for
four years, I would guess - and an All-SEC performer by the time he's
through.

Our other frosh, 6'5 Corey Smith, is merely a backup for Freije right
now, as he's been forced out of his natural (SF) position all
season.  He hasn't made a significant impact in any SEC game so far.
He'll be a solid player for us long term, but likely never a star
(IMO).

I've been having discussions on a silly "Fantasy Hoops" messageboard
regarding Kentucky's current team... he's among those UK fans who
seem to have been Tarhole-ized into thinking it's somehow their
birthright to win the SEC every year and that this year will
obviously be no different... I'm among those who respect UK's
tradition, but think this year's team falls short of some of its
predecessors... so, with that in mind, I'd like to thank Joe Lunardi
to lend some credibility to my brash, young, under-informed
viewpoints...

http://espn.go.com/ncb/s/bracket/banter/020123.html

UK Blues
Did you graduate from a Big Ten (11) school? Or do you really think
Ohio State is that good? RPI of 16 with an SOS of 54 lands you a No.
2 seed? Great! I'll just tell Tubby Smith and the rest of SEC to only
play Kentucky Valley Community College a couple times and they'll get
No. 2 seeds into the tournament.

Do I think OSU is a bad team? No. Do I think UK, Alabama, Florida and
Georgia are more deserving than OSU? Yes. If anybody gets a No. 2
seed from the Big Ten, then give it to Illinois. UK as a No. 5 seed?
I can see a No. 3 seed or maybe even a No. 4, but last I checked
the 'Cats were only one game back in the SEC East and were 13-4 with
the same record as Arizona, a No. 2 seed in your book and No. 2 in
the RPI. Kentucky was No. 7.

Bart Giles


Lunardi - I knew this was coming. It's perfectly fine for Kentucky
fans to trash their own team, but God forbid someone with a shred of
objectivity doesn't genuflect at the altar of the Bluegrass. For the
record, I have historically projected UK with a higher seed than
most, consistently complimenting the Wildcats on their back-breaking
schedules and near-annual lead in quality wins.

But this year, at least so far, those big scalps simply aren't there.
The list of teams with multiple RPI Top 50 wins to date includes:
7 (Arizona, Duke)

5 (Kansas, Oklahoma)

4 (Alabama, Gonzaga, Illinois)

3 (Cincinnati, Georgia, Maryland)

Ohio State also has three RPI Top 50 wins (Indiana, North Carolina
State, Iowa), and is unbeaten in one of the "Super Six" conferences
that dominate the NCAA bracket. UK was 2-2 in its own "Super Six"
conference at the time of these projections and had but one Top 50
victory.

I'm not saying Ohio State will be better in March than any of the SEC
teams you mention. But I am saying the Buckeyes had a better NCAA
profile when these latest projections were done (Jan. 21).

----------------------------------
Kentucky a No. 5 seed? What are you smoking? I enjoy looking at your
projected brackets each week, but now I must prepare myself for
laughter when I go to your site. Have you ever considered being a
stand-up comedian?

Kentucky is not what they were in the '90s without a big-time
presence in the middle, but they are ranked in the Top 10 last time I
checked. They are ranked 7th in the RPI. Their schedule rank is 7th
according to USA Today, and they play Alabama and Florida the next
two games. That will only raise their schedule strength even higher.

It remains to be seen whether they can win both of these games. I
believe they will beat 'Bama and lose to the Gators. Still should not
make them a No. 5 seed!

Daniel Egbers


Lunardi - If a name other than "Kentucky" was attached to UK's
current profile, no one would argue with this projection. When that
profile improves, I'll be the first to restore the Wildcats to their
accustomed perch.

P.S.: I do stand-up comedy in the offseason, usually by reading fans'
emails aloud on the stage.

-------------------------------------
I guess Alabama-Kentucky isn't a "Games of the Week" kind of matchup,
huh?? Next time, check the match ups before throwing out duds for
your Games of the Week. I mean Hawaii-Tulsa, Kent-Bowling Green? Give
me a break! At the very least 'Bama-Kentucky is a better match than
those two.

Oh yeah, 'Bama is also deserving of a 3 seed if you think Georgia is.
Do a little back-checking, you'll see what I am talking about.
Keeping in mind that Florida is overrated, of course.

Jon E. Gifford


Lunardi - "Games of the Week" aren't chosen as much on marquee value
as on their import to the NCAA Tournament selection process. Alabama
and Kentucky are dancing no matter what happens this week. You can't
say the same about the teams in most of the other match ups we
spotlight each week.

etc...

Speaking of Georgia, they're beginning to get some
regional and national attention.     I have to admit,
i was dubious about Harrick's ability to build a
program there where no one cares an iota about hoops,
but so far it's pretty hard to question the job he's
done.   When the preseason media poll came out i was
highly offended that UGa was 5th ahead of Vanderbilt;
now we could end up 4th (yes, i know there's tons more
games left to play) and still finish behind them.

This week's SEC column at CNNSI (from Mark Schlabach,
not Seth Davis as i posted earlier -- i must have
mixed up another hoops article) talks about the Hayes
twins:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2002/01/25/thisweek_sec\
/

Not only does he mention Matt Freije as "The SEC's
most underrated player," but he also has VU 6th in his
power ratings.    Woo hoo (altho i'm not sure that
means anything...) !

I found this article about the collapse at Arkansas,
and specifically their problems in a halfcourt game,
to be really interesting:

http://onlineathens.fanaticzone.com/stories/012402/ark_0124029529.shtml

Later,

Philip

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Georgia has to be one of the surprise teams of not only the SEC, but the entire
nation right now.  Knocked off Florida and Kentucky both on the road.  WOW!!!

Florida is looking to have Justin Hamilton back for this Saturday's game at
Arkansas.

Sorry that i haven't been doing more to get this list
going.   I'd like to say that i'll do better in the
future, but honestly since i don't have cable and
don't live in the Southeast, i can usually only
contribute by posting links and what-not.    (I did
get to see Vanderbilt's last two games, however, and
am significantly more excited about this season now.
I certainly didn't expect us to dominate USC in
Columbia like that, but i digress....)

Here's the news about Slay:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2002/01/21/tennessee_sl\
ay_ap/


Also this Seth Davis SI article on UT's struggles
might be of some interest:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2002/01/17/thisweek_sec\
/

"Three months into Peterson's first season, he is
beginning to realize what Green already knew:
Tennessee's players are among the most gifted in the
SEC, but maybe lack the heart or composure to win
games that matter."


So talk, everyone... :)

later,

Philip

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Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
SECHoops group:

What SEC mens basketball team will win
the out-right sec basketball regular
season conference championship title ?

   o KENTUCKY
   o FLORIDA
   o GEORGIA
   o TENNESSEE
   o SOUTH   CAROLINA
   o VANDERBILT
   o ALABAMA
   o ARKANSAS
   o OLE  MISS / MISSISSIPPI
   o MISSISSIPPI    STATE
   o LSU / LOUISANA   STATE
   o AUBURN
   o NOT - SURE
   o UN -DECIDED  ?


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SECHoops/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

I think Ole Miss has a shot of making the tournament
again this year. After tonight's game against
Lipscomb, we should be 11-2. Granted, it wasn't a
tough non-conference schedule, but there are a few
good wins in there.

No big man for us this year with Gunn sidelined by
kidney surgery, but look out for Derrick Allen, a juco
transfer from Gadsden, Alabama. Plays bigger than he
is and can hit his FTs as well.

Alabama will probably win the West, but Ole Miss will
give them a run and probably end up 2nd.




--- Philip Reed <ChristianEccentric@...> wrote:
> OK, i spamproofed the list......
>
> which reminds me, now that SEC play starts this
> week,
> how does everyone feel about their respective team's
> chances, based on the preseason?
>
> I'll go first: Vanderbilt has looked really shaky at
> times -- losing to Monmouth in Hawai'i, playing some
> alarmingly close games against really bad D-I teams.
>
>
> We all knew this would be a young team, and
> unfortunately with Lakey out of the lineup for most
> of
> the pre-conference, they've seemed to be in utter
> dysfunction.
>
> I really think we're looking at 6th again unless the
> team grows up rapidly, and i didn't think that
> before
> the season started.
>
> OK, now it's your turn....
>
> Later,
>
> Philip
> --- Robert Scott <decisionmakers2001@...>
> wrote:
>
> [nothing any of us care about...]
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OK, i spamproofed the list......

which reminds me, now that SEC play starts this week,
how does everyone feel about their respective team's
chances, based on the preseason?

I'll go first: Vanderbilt has looked really shaky at
times -- losing to Monmouth in Hawai'i, playing some
alarmingly close games against really bad D-I teams.

We all knew this would be a young team, and
unfortunately with Lakey out of the lineup for most of
the pre-conference, they've seemed to be in utter
dysfunction.

I really think we're looking at 6th again unless the
team grows up rapidly, and i didn't think that before
the season started.

OK, now it's your turn....

Later,

Philip
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Coupla thoughts...

> As you mentioned,
> Memorial has now been brought down to about 13K (IIRC)
> with renovation, which was a good decision IMO.

Memorial's just over 14,000, post-renovations.  It once was an
incredible atmosphere for games, but I believe the vbk years stifled
much of the enthusiasm.  I think the problem you highlight with
Kentucky is one at many places - they lose sight of the fact that the
game is played for the students.  It's college kids on the court, and
college kids should be at courtside - not only in the endzones, not
at all in the rafters.  Schools like Duke that see this reap the
benefits - by having the most raucous crowds and most lopsided home-
court advantages.  For this, I like the idea of the "Memorial
Maniacs" - but they're not plentiful enough, not rowdy enough, and
not surrounding the court.  Winning should take care of
the "plentiful" and "rowdy" portions of that statement, though the
big spenders will still get one whole side of the court to themselves.

Hey JC...

Not sure why Jason Holwerda doesn't show up there.  He's being
brought along slowly - unfortunately, some of our early games have
been more competitive than they should have been, and his PT has been
limited playing behind seniors Chuck Moore (13ppg) and Sam Howard
(15ppg).  Still, he's averaging 12 minutes per contest, while getting
3.6 points, 1.6 rebounds, and 1.8 assists (to 0.6 turnovers).

Some "opinions" are that... he's a great passer, a decent though not
great ball-handler, has good range and good touch on his shot, and
explosiveness to the basket.  I think his playing time this year will
be determined by how well he progresses defensively at the 3
position.  He can bring more size to that position than most of our
other options.  With enough improvement, he could end up averaging
between 15 and 20 minutes a ballgame.  Next year, when Howard and
Moore are gone, he'll be relied on heavily to carry much of the
offensive load.

Long run, he's undoubtedly going to be a great one.  Brings
athleticism and explosiveness to our wing that none of the older
players on our team currently possess (though 6'6 SG signee Bryson
Krueger does).  Probably at this point is the second most promising
player in our freshman class behind 7'1 David Przybyszewski from
Poland (11ppg, 6rpg).

Hope this helps!  We're glad we have him, and not UF/UT!

--- In SECHoops@y..., jcballin21@a... wrote:
> Where is Jason Holwerda?  Looked for him in the team rosters
section on ESPN.com but couldn't find him.  How's doing?

Where is Jason Holwerda?  Looked for him in the team rosters section on ESPN.com
but couldn't find him.  How's doing?

Enjoyed the comments.  As far as Rupp, I guess I'm comparing the atmosphere
to that of a game at Thompson-Boling.  ;)  I had no idea that some UK fans
were disappointed in the atmosphere at UK games.

Good article on MSU and their great idea for student seating.  I'll have to
forward that to my dad.  My dad is former assistant coach there, under
Forddy Anderson.  In fact, I was born in Lansing and saw my first game at
Michigan State, at the age of about 1 month.  Probably didn't see much of
the game, though.  I'm sure most of my time at the game included sleeping,
eating and crying.  Funny, but I do these exact same things at UT games
these days!

Hey, Bill!  good to hear from you.

--- billvol@... wrote:

> 1) Dick Vitale -- He used to be great for the game.
> He IMO largely made
> ESPN what it is today.  .... But his ego has
engulfed
> him.  He tries to outshine the games he broadcasts.
> And worst of all, he
> pushes his favorite programs and coaches.

Bingo!   It's so dreadful, i would actually consider
not watching a game i cared something about because of
him doing the broadcast.   Fortunately he only rarely
does SEC broadcasts, and my team doesn't yet play much
on ESPN anyway, so there aren't many games i *REALLY*
care about that have him on there.

> With his influence, this is very
> unfair to the vast majority of programs trying to
> build themselves into
> something.

True, but it's hardly ESPN's goal to be fair.  Their
goal is to develop at most half a dozen schools as
national icons that polarize opinion, that everyone
either loves or hates.   (See KSR any time Dukie V.
utters 5 words about Duke for an example of why this
is a good strategy -- controversy breeds ratings, and
teams like Duke are controversial.)

> 2) Any arena seating over 16,000.

I generally agree with this sentiment.   In this age
of wall-to-wall TV games, it's not like fans can't
watch most any game that would draw a sellout crowd
anyway.

> I would have said
> 15,000, but Memorial
> Gymnasium at Vanderbilt seats over 15,000, and that
> is my favorite arena in
> all of college basketball.

Aww, you're so nice to say so! :)   As you mentioned,
Memorial has now been brought down to about 13K (IIRC)
with renovation, which was a good decision IMO.

[Snip comments on Thompson-Boling that i agree with.]

> People may reply that Rupp seats 23,000 or so.  They
> are an exception.  Rupp
> has a great atmosphere.

Actually, KSR often has threads about how bad the
atmosphere is there.   UK wins a lot, and their fans
in general are passionate, so to us on the outside it
looks like a good home atmosphere.    But from lurking
there it appears the "fan$" closest to the court are
not exactly the rabid college kids willing to make a
fools out of themselves, if you get my drift.   UNC's
another good example; Carmichael Auditorium was
considered a great home-court advantage, whereas the
Dean Dome's just big.

Btw, that reminds me of what schools should do as far
as atmosphere: learn from Michigan State and their
"Izzone".   When they moved to a bigger arena, instead
of putting big donors courtside they asked them to
endow places for the students to surround the court (I
think, or something like that).    Here's an
interesting story on kids having to choose between
going to Ann Arbor for a football game and buying
Izzone tickets:
http://www.statenews.com/article.phtml?pk=545

> I read Georgia fans saying they want to build
> a new arena.

That's insane.   They don't fill up Stegeman, do they?


OK, here's some things i could do without:

- So many early-season cupcakes.

A few are ok to prep your team, but some of the
schedules are ridiculous.  Fortunately this tendency
has gone away because 1. people talk about SoS and RPI
a lot more nowadays, and 2. John Thompson has retired.

- Conference tournaments

This'll be controversial, and i've somewhat softened
my stance.   They're kinda fun, actually, but (aside
from Kentucky fans) does anyone really remember or
even *care* who wont the conference tourney after
Selection Sunday?   I sure don't.   Quick, who won it
two years ago?   I had to think for the answer, and my
team got directly screwed by it!

I would, however, like to see the SEC have a one-game
playoff, like in football.   Or if two teams finish
tied in a division, let them play off like in
baseball.   One game would be fun; Auburn-South
Carolina on a Thursday afternoon with 40 thousand
seats in the Georgia Dome isn't.

- Recruiting analysts

Actually i'm being hypocritical here, because i like
the ratings for discussion purposes.   But they're so
blatantly biased toward the name programs, i wouldn't
really mind if they perished from the earth.

OK, that's my list.

later,
Philip

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This is my first post to the SECHoops mailing list.  I just got to thinking
today about different things that, if we did not have them, would make
college hoops better.  I would enjoy hearing different ideas.

A couple I would submit:

1) Dick Vitale -- He used to be great for the game.  He IMO largely made
ESPN what it is today.  Before they had NFL, MLB, NBA (used to have it), and
the NHL, the NCAA tourney was their number one event.  He drove college
basketball and the tourney IMO.  Or was a large part of it, at least.  And
he does know his hoops.  If you hear an old game on ESPN, before he became
the persona he is now, he was great to listen to.  But his ego has engulfed
him.  He tries to outshine the games he broadcasts.  And worst of all, he
pushes his favorite programs and coaches.  With his influence, this is very
unfair to the vast majority of programs trying to build themselves into
something.

2) Any arena seating over 16,000.  I would have said 15,000, but Memorial
Gymnasium at Vanderbilt seats over 15,000, and that is my favorite arena in
all of college basketball.  I've been to quite a few.  (Actually, maybe
Memorial Gym seats less than 15,000 now with the renovation.)  As a
Tennessee fan, I lose sleep at night over our terrible arena.  It has no
atmosphere, no warmth (literally and figuratively), is way too big, and is
ugly.  I don't think we will ever develop into a big-time program with
Thompson-Boling Arena.  There is no hope of filling that arena on a constant
basis.  Even with a winning team.  We never have the excitement of a sold
out crowd, seeing the stands filled all the way to the last row.  I have no
doubt that this is used against us in recruiting.  Every time you see us on
TV, all you see are empty orange seats.

People may reply that Rupp seats 23,000 or so.  They are an exception.  Rupp
has a great atmosphere.  But there are only one or two schools that can fill
up an arena that big consistently.  And even though Rupp is usually sold
out, it still can't match the warmth and intimacy of a smaller, quirkier
gym.  I read Georgia fans saying they want to build a new arena.  They
really don't know how good they have it.

Well, hope that gets the ball rolling.  I think it would be interesting to
see other comments on this topic.  Any aspect of college hoops is fair game:
uniforms, rules, coaches, etc...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Reed" <ChristianEccentric@...>
To: <SECHoops@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:06 PM
Subject: [SECHoops] Katz on Harrick and a big day for the SEC today


> Katz: "Harrick turning scrappy bunch into winners ...
> again"
>
> http://espn.go.com/ncb/columns/katz_andy/1281013.html
>
> Well, not to diminish their win against Georgetown,
> but i think UGa's very suspect inside, and i suspect
> Georgetown wasn't the team to reveal that.   One win
> does not a season make.
>
> "We just shook up the SEC a bit," Hayes said. "There
> was a little shake, but we're not talking about the
> conference yet. We've got other games first like
> Georgia Southern, the favorites in the Southern
> Conference."
>
> Uh, no, that's the Atlantic Sun.   Hayes actually
> played in the SoCon!    Maybe Katz misquoted him.
>
> Today should be interesting.   Carolina vs. Duke (our
> Carolina) in a matchup that shouldn't take place,
> since Duke should get Chaminade in the loser's
> bracket.   Alabama faces Mizzou in their first real
> test of the season.
>
> C'mon people, TALK!!!  :)
>
> Later,
> PhilipVU94
>
>
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>

Katz: "Harrick turning scrappy bunch into winners ...
again"

http://espn.go.com/ncb/columns/katz_andy/1281013.html

Well, not to diminish their win against Georgetown,
but i think UGa's very suspect inside, and i suspect
Georgetown wasn't the team to reveal that.   One win
does not a season make.

"We just shook up the SEC a bit," Hayes said. "There
was a little shake, but we're not talking about the
conference yet. We've got other games first like
Georgia Southern, the favorites in the Southern
Conference."

Uh, no, that's the Atlantic Sun.   Hayes actually
played in the SoCon!    Maybe Katz misquoted him.

Today should be interesting.   Carolina vs. Duke (our
Carolina) in a matchup that shouldn't take place,
since Duke should get Chaminade in the loser's
bracket.   Alabama faces Mizzou in their first real
test of the season.

C'mon people, TALK!!!  :)

Later,
PhilipVU94


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You passed!

Welcome to the list; we need some more SECW
representation.

How do you see the West turning out?   In my mind the
top four teams are almost where you could throw them
in a hat and pull them out in any order.   Without
trying to start a flame war here, i'm not yet
convinced that Coach Gottfried can get his team to
play up to preseason expectations, but i guess the
Tide probably has the most talent in the division.
Ole Miss loses a lot but i would expect them to be
surprisingly strong for as long as Rod Barnes is
coaching there.   Auburn lost a lot when McGadney went
out but still should be decent.   Arkansas is Blue
Ribbon's pick to win the West, but i just can't see
them being that good after losing Johnson, considering
they weren't all that great with him.   I'm guessing
Stans is on the way out at State, and Brady needs a
couple more years to rebuild after the sanctions.

Should be an exciting year!   Welcome to the list.

Later,

PhilipVU94

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My boy, Berry Jordan, for Arkansas, had 2 steals in 6 minutes as a true frosh.

Jeff

My boy, Berry Jordan, for Arkansas, had 2 steals in 6 minutes as a true frosh.

Jeff

Yeah, yeah, i live in New England and it's still hard
for me to get excited about Arkansas-Maine, but at
least it's real action instead of exhibitions.  Here's
the boxscore:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/scores/20011112/maaaas.html

Gipson was their leading scorer w/ 15, but i've never
heard of this Sullinger who had 10 in 14 minutes.

Alabama opens tonight vs. Miss. Valley State.

latah,
PhilipVU94

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Hmmm... so maybe 'zona's for real after all.   (They
must have been especially motivated to win the Coaches
vs. Cancer since Bobbi Olsen died from cancer, but
still.... that Lute fellow can coach!)

Here's the boxscore:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/scores/20011109/aaqfak.html

Did anyone watch the game?   Looks from the boxscore
like Gardner was awesome.

Latah,

PhilipVU94



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Rowdy Reptile  wanted to tell you about the The Gator Lair ezboard community.

You can reach the community by going here:

http://pub33.ezboard.com/bthegatorlair

The Gator Lair is an online community dedicated to the following:
A home for those fans of the Florida Gators or those college basketball fans in
general.


Create your own online community at http://www.ezboard.com/intl/en/index.html

and the ACC is 0-1, with its all-everything 2nd-place
final four team losing to an Arizona team that's
supposed to be way down. *snicker snicker*

Game story:
http://www.gatorsports.com/stories/110901/ufbkc1.shtml

Here's the boxscore:
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/scores/20011108/tadfak.html

(Greene started but Lee got 27 min, is that right?)

Any thoughts from the Gators on this list?   I don't
get cable so i don't have much of use to say.

latah,
p-

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