Thank you!
Fred

--- rselter <rselter@...> wrote:

> Fredric London asked in regard to CLE League Park
> III and IV:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Was any of the wooden park incorporated into League
> Park IV? If so, how long did this/these section(s)
> last before they were replaced?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I compared the 1896 Sanborn which showed the stands
> and configuration of the
> wooden ballpark League Park III, with the 1911
> Sanborn which showed the
> stands and configuration of the wooden ballpark
> League Park IV.
>
> The grandstand of League Park IV (steel-and-concrete
> double-deck) was
> obviously not a carryover from League Park III. In
> League Park IV there
> were wooden bleachers in LF-CF, that extended from
> straight-away LF until
> the left edge of the CF scoreboard. League Park IV
> was built on a larger
> site than League Park III, thus the bleachers in
> LF-CF of IV, were set back
> about 50 feet further (to the East), than the wooden
> bleachers of III. It
> is entirely possible that the wooden bleachers of
> III were merely moved back
> and used in IV. Comparing the 1909 photo, that
> showed the wooden bleachers
> of III, with the size of the wooden bleachers of IV
> from the 1911 Sanborn,
> indicates both sets of bleachers are about the same
> size.
>
> Conclusion: Only the LF-CF bleachers from League
> Park III could have been
> reused in IV in a slightly different location.
> These wooden bleachers in IV
> were likely replaced in August 1920 as seats were
> added for the 1920 pennant
> race and subsequent WS.
>
>
> Ron Selter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SABRballparks@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:SABRballparks@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006 12:45 PM
> To: SABRballparks@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SABRballparks] Digest Number 85
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Ballpark Research-A Work In
> Progress-The Case Of CLE League
> Park III
> From: Fredric London <fmlondon@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 16:13:54 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Fredric London <fmlondon@...>
> Subject: Re: Ballpark Research-A Work In
> Progress-The Case Of CLE League
> Park III
>
> Ron,
>
> Was any of the wooden park incorporated into League
> Park IV? If so, how long did this/these section(s)
> last before they were replaced?
>
> Thank you.
>
> --- rselter <rselter@...> wrote:
>
> > Recently I posted an article to this list on the
> > subject of the first AL
> > ballpark in Cleveland-League Park III. After
> > reviewing game accounts
> > involving home runs for the 1908 season I arrived
> at
> > a conclusion concerning
> > the RF-CF configuration of the park in the 1908
> > season.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is the evidence:
> >
> >
> >
> > (1) From the Cleveland Plain Dealer June 5,
> > 1908: In the game account
> > (G on prior day 6-4-1908), Inside-the-Park home
> run
> > (IPHR) by Bill Hickman
> > (an IPHR to CF) was described as the first home
> run
> > by Cleveland on the
> > enlarged grounds.
> >
> >
> >
> > (2) HR data for League Park showed over the
> five
> > seasons (1903-07) nine
> > IPHRs, of which three were to CF. For the 1908
> > season there were nine
> > IPHRs, of which six were to CF.
> >
> >
> >
> > (3) The cause of this marked increase in IPHRs
> > was first believed to be
> > due to the removal of the RF bleachers before the
> > 1908 season. Photographic
> > evidence (photo in the Cleveland Leader) showed no
> > RF bleachers in existence
> > in the 1909 season. However during the 1908
> season
> > there were six home runs
> > hit into the RF bleaches.
> >
> >
> >
> > (4) Clearly, the RF bleachers were not removed
> > before the 1908 season.
> > The answer to the increase in IPHRs-especially to
> > CF- was due to the
> > construction of new bleachers in left-center
> behind
> > the LF-CF fence. As
> > these bleachers extended all the way to the CF
> > corner, the view from them
> > would have been largely blocked by the CF portion
> of
> > the pre-existing RF
> > bleachers. The answer I concluded, was the CF
> > portion of the RF bleachers
> > were removed prior to the 1908 season-thus the
> > reference (G of 6-4-1908) to
> > as the first home run by Cleveland on the enlarged
> > grounds, and six home
> > runs into the RF bleachers still remaining.
> >
> >
> >
> > (5) Home data supplied by David Vincent from
> the
> > SABR Home Run
> > Log-additional research on all home runs at League
> > Park in the Deadball era
> > by the author.
> >
> >
> >
> > The revised article on League Park III follows. I
> > hope the formatting of
> > the tables comes out better in the List than my
> > first attempt.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ron Selter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Cleveland LEAGUE PARK (III) In The Deadball Era
> >
> > (Revised 4-9-2006)
> >
> >
> >
> > There were four ballpark in Cleveland called
> League
> > Park. The first (League
> > Park I) was used by the NL Cleveland Spiders
> > 1879-1884. This park was
> > located at Silby (later Carnegie) St, Kennard
> (later
> > East 46th) St, and
> > Cedar St. The second park (League Park II) was
> used
> > by the AA Cleveland
> > Spiders 1887-1888 and the NL Cleveland Spiders
> > 1889-1890. This second park
> > in Cleveland to be called League Park was at a
> > different location (39th St,
> > East 35th St, Euclid Ave, and Payne Ave). League
> > Park III was at a third
>
=== message truncated ===


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