Just joined the board today.  I ran a half marathon in 07 with shoes

and ruined my ITB.  I almost gave up on running because it just kept

hurting, but then I found out about barefooting and thought I would

give it a try.  I started running in 5 fingers (I know, not quite

barefoot) back in March of 2008 and I'm currently building for my

first full marathon.  I know many of you are true barefooters, but

since I have felt the sting of rejection from the shod crowd for my

independently moving toes, I was hoping I could hang out here.



I do have a couple questions,



I have had some pain between my second and third metatarsal on top of

my foot about an inch behind my toes.  Anyone have any ideas for

stretches or other conditioning to help with this?



I'm planning to run the ING GA marathon in March, anyone else going?

Welcome to the forum,



I've had  a little pain like yours when I started barefooting, in my

case it was nothing to bad, a few days of massaging took care of it.



I massage the top of my feet with my hands and fingers, for the soles

I use a tennis ball. To this day I still massage with the tennis ball

but rarely need to massage the tops of my feet.



I'm not running the ING but I do live in the north Atlanta metro area

and have run several races here barefoot this last year.



Are you in the Atlanta area ?



Terry











--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "mswagner78" <mswagner78@...>

wrote:

>

> Just joined the board today.  I ran a half marathon in 07 with shoes

> and ruined my ITB.  I almost gave up on running because it just kept

> hurting, but then I found out about barefooting and thought I would

> give it a try.  I started running in 5 fingers (I know, not quite

> barefoot) back in March of 2008 and I'm currently building for my

> first full marathon.  I know many of you are true barefooters, but

> since I have felt the sting of rejection from the shod crowd for my

> independently moving toes, I was hoping I could hang out here.

>

> I do have a couple questions,

>

> I have had some pain between my second and third metatarsal on top

of

> my foot about an inch behind my toes.  Anyone have any ideas for

> stretches or other conditioning to help with this?

>

> I'm planning to run the ING GA marathon in March, anyone else going?

>

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "mswagner78" <mswagner78@...>

wrote:

>

> Just joined the board today.  I ran a half marathon in 07 with shoes

> and ruined my ITB.  I almost gave up on running because it just kept

> hurting, but then I found out about barefooting and thought I would

> give it a try.  I started running in 5 fingers...



Welcome to the group! 8:-)



I got rid of ITBS while transitioning to barefooting. I completed my

2nd marathon using FiveFingers and even if I had to fight the wind for

the last half of it I would have been able started running a day or two

after the marathon.



I'm not so sure I would not have tried pushing too much if I had

been shod so I am thankfull I was almost barefoot for that 2nd marathon!



Regarding your problem all I can tell is that pain is there because

there is something wrong. Are you doing too much too soon?

I just ran 15 miles yesterday, probably my longest run since Long

Beach Marathon, last October. Today, I have similar pain on the top

of my foot. I have experienced it before.



There are two basic causes.



One, is that the foot is out of condition for that long of run at the

speed I ran. This is quite common, as anytime you increase speed

and/or distance, you are doing something your feet, and body are not

used to. More on this below...



Second, is not relaxing enough.



The common mistake beginning barefooter make, which I suspect will

also be an even bigger mistake of folks wearing more flexible shoes,

is to assume that the big limiting factor in running barefoot is the

lack of conditioning of the sole.



There are two big problems with that.



First, is that the sensitivity of the sole, especially when we are

starting out barefoot, helps us LEARN HOW to run. Our soles are our

two most attentive coaches in the world. They give us immediate and

very precise feedback as to how they are interacting with the surface

we are running/walking/standing on.



Second, is related to number one, the faulty assumption, that once

our soles are conditioned, or if we are wearing flexible shoes, then

we can run just as far, just as fast, just as hard, as we did with

shoes. The problem here, besides the fact that we still haven't

learned to run naturally, is that there are hundreds of bones,

tendons, ligaments, and muscles in our feet, that also need to be

conditioned for the increased range of movement they will be

experiencing, and the soles can be toughened up in a fraction of the

time it takes to strengthen the internal tissues of the foot.



The cure, is of course, flexing the foot, I don't think massage is

bad, but I prefer to use the muscles in the foot itself to move the

foot, as we get too dependent on external cures, and not enough on

letting our bodies heal themselves. Also, not using external forces

to flex and twist our feet and toes, helps prevent us from flexing or

twisting too far.



So basically, what I call toe-yoga (or toe-ga, a term coined by

Barefoot Preston), is simply flexing the toes, twisting the foot from

side to side, etc., using the muscles in the foot we are flexing.

http://runningbarefoot.org/?p=675



Secondly, while running, be sure to relax the feet, ankles, knees,

etc., to allow them to move and flex with less tension (tension, in

one form or another, is probably the cause of most pain in our

bodies). Be sure to listen to what you feel, in order to make

appropriate adjustments to the way you are running. The best way to

get feedback, of course, would be to actually run barefoot, at least

occassionally.

http://runningbarefoot.org/?page_id=455



Finally, of course, is rest and relaxation. Our workouts need to be

balanced with adequate rest and relaxation, otherwise the workouts

will simply become a torturous series of beatings, especially, if we

are blocking the sensations on your soles with footwear, so as to

avoid learning how to run the way humans were designed to run.



Have fun,

-barefoot ken bob





--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "mswagner78" <mswagner78@...>

wrote:

>

> Just joined the board today.  I ran a half marathon in 07 with shoes

> and ruined my ITB.  I almost gave up on running because it just kept

> hurting, but then I found out about barefooting and thought I would

> give it a try.  I started running in 5 fingers (I know, not quite

> barefoot) back in March of 2008 and I'm currently building for my

> first full marathon.  I know many of you are true barefooters, but

> since I have felt the sting of rejection from the shod crowd for my

> independently moving toes, I was hoping I could hang out here.

>

> I do have a couple questions,

>

> I have had some pain between my second and third metatarsal on top

of

> my foot about an inch behind my toes.  Anyone have any ideas for

> stretches or other conditioning to help with this?

>

> I'm planning to run the ING GA marathon in March, anyone else going?

>

Thanks for the responses!



Terry, I live in Savannah.  I don't think I'm going to be running the

marathon now though (see below...)



Luc, I think you hit the nail on the head.  I have overdone it, I

think I went for a marathon build too fast and too soon.  It turns out

my little pain is bigger than I thought and may be a stress fracture,

so I've got to take some weeks off and regroup.



Ken Bob, thank you so much for the recommendations!  I will take it

easier when I start back.  I will try incorporating some totally

barefoot running.

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "mswagner78" <mswagner78@...>

wrote:

>

> Thanks for the responses!

>

>

> Luc, I think you hit the nail on the head.  I have overdone it, I

> think I went for a marathon build too fast and too soon.  It turns out

> my little pain is bigger than I thought and may be a stress fracture,

> so I've got to take some weeks off and regroup.



Oh. 8:-(



I hope it's not a stress fracture. I'll have good thoughts for you and

will anxiously wait to read from you that it was not one. Please let us

know how it went.

Thanks for the thoughts Luc!  Today it's not hurting very much at all.

  If it is the beginning of a stress fracture, its not very bad yet and

hopefully it will heal quickly.  Either way, I'm taking this as a sign

of overdoing it and I'm going to back off.



Ron and Ryan, thank you for the suggestions!  I think I have a good

plan now for when I start back.  I'm going to spend some time working

on conditioning and form before attempting to build significant

mileage again.

Welcome, mswagner78!!



I experienced the same thing you are when I first started out running

BF. I believe it came from consciously trying to "run on the toes"

without changing the rest of the running form. In my case, I ended up

doing a type of "goose-step" - still extending my feet out in front of

me, in the old way of running, but thinking I should land on the balls

of my feet, I was forcing my feet into an unnatural, pointing position

with each step. Too complicated! Too painful!



The hardest thing for me was learning how to re-vamp my whole running

form. I had to retrain my brain more than my body.



Similar to all the hints you find on Ken-Bob's running site, my advice

to new barefoot runners is this:



Run in place. "Grab" that form with your mind: Feet touching beneath

you, knees bent, whole-foot contact, faster cadence.



To move forward, keep 'running in place' but just lean into it by

letting your body weight shift forward, barely. You can practice

moving forward and slowing to no forward progress -- all by where your

body weight is relative to your hips.  You will be successful when you

can convince your brain to NOT shift into "running mode" and to just

keep running in place.



Running barefoot is just running in place -- mile after mile!



Ryan

Vancouver, WA





--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "mswagner78" <mswagner78@...>

wrote:

>

> Just joined the board today.  I ran a half marathon in 07 with shoes

> and ruined my ITB.  I almost gave up on running because it just kept

> hurting, but then I found out about barefooting and thought I would

> give it a try.  I started running in 5 fingers (I know, not quite

> barefoot) back in March of 2008 and I'm currently building for my

> first full marathon.  I know many of you are true barefooters, but

> since I have felt the sting of rejection from the shod crowd for my

> independently moving toes, I was hoping I could hang out here.

>

> I do have a couple questions,

>

> I have had some pain between my second and third metatarsal on top of

> my foot about an inch behind my toes.  Anyone have any ideas for

> stretches or other conditioning to help with this?

>

> I'm planning to run the ING GA marathon in March, anyone else going?

>

Welcome aboard!



I started going barefoot and lightly shod for the same reasons -- to

improve mechanics, and thereby cut down on wear and tear of knees,

back and feet.



I, like you, cannot always handle the terrain and need something... I

like the Puma H Street, which has recently come back into production.



(I do my treadmill miles barefoot, and in tougher terrain the

Pumas.)  The HStreet isn't marketed as a running shoe -- it's light

and doesn't provide all that foot-prison "support" ...



I generally like to do some Achilles strengthening (google swedish

achilles strengthener) generally, and manipulate golf balls with my

toes to stretch and strengthen foot muscles.



Best barefoot wishes...

Mark



--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "mswagner78" <mswagner78@...>

wrote:

>

> Just joined the board today.  I ran a half marathon in 07 with shoes

> and ruined my ITB.  I almost gave up on running because it just kept

> hurting, but then I found out about barefooting and thought I would

> give it a try.  I started running in 5 fingers (I know, not quite

> barefoot) back in March of 2008 and I'm currently building for my

> first full marathon.  I know many of you are true barefooters, but

> since I have felt the sting of rejection from the shod crowd for my

> independently moving toes, I was hoping I could hang out here.

>

> I do have a couple questions,

>

> I have had some pain between my second and third metatarsal on top

of

> my foot about an inch behind my toes.  Anyone have any ideas for

> stretches or other conditioning to help with this?

>

> I'm planning to run the ING GA marathon in March, anyone else going?

>