Thanks Gordon! Good advice. Wait until you know "where" to go digging...!



--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "gajslk" <gajslk@...> wrote:
>
> A few months ago I got a tiny sliver of glass in my foot.  Every once
> in a while I would feel it.  The second time I went digging with a
> needle I got it out.  The real key to finding it was that it moved and
> caused just a bit of bleeding under the skin.  Just enough to tell me
> where to go excavating.  Since it was tiny, clear, and oriented
> vertically, it was impossible to see otherwise.  It was apparently
> left behind when I picked up a larger piece, which was actually quite
> small itself.
>
> Gordon
>
>
> --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "pieter9999" <pieter9999@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, yesterday I may have stepped in a thorn or something, and it
> > irritates my foot a bit.
> >
> > However, I can't find anything in that sole! Even with a magnifying
> > glass I can't find any 'puncture' in the skin, I can't find it! I have
> > dug a bit with a needle in the place where I suspect something, but -
> > nothing.
> >
> > What do you all think?
> > - is it something else? Maybe I have stepped in something, but it is
> > not stuck in my foot....so it will pass.
> > - and if there is a small thorn, or piece of stone or glass in, will
> > it come out by itself, or will it drive itself in deeper and deeper?
> >
> > I don't want to 'cut up' more skin then necessary, so: do I have to
> > 'dig' to find it, or give it rest first?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
>

A few months ago I got a tiny sliver of glass in my foot.  Every once
in a while I would feel it.  The second time I went digging with a
needle I got it out.  The real key to finding it was that it moved and
caused just a bit of bleeding under the skin.  Just enough to tell me
where to go excavating.  Since it was tiny, clear, and oriented
vertically, it was impossible to see otherwise.  It was apparently
left behind when I picked up a larger piece, which was actually quite
small itself.

Gordon


--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "pieter9999" <pieter9999@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi, yesterday I may have stepped in a thorn or something, and it
> irritates my foot a bit.
>
> However, I can't find anything in that sole! Even with a magnifying
> glass I can't find any 'puncture' in the skin, I can't find it! I have
> dug a bit with a needle in the place where I suspect something, but -
> nothing.
>
> What do you all think?
> - is it something else? Maybe I have stepped in something, but it is
> not stuck in my foot....so it will pass.
> - and if there is a small thorn, or piece of stone or glass in, will
> it come out by itself, or will it drive itself in deeper and deeper?
>
> I don't want to 'cut up' more skin then necessary, so: do I have to
> 'dig' to find it, or give it rest first?
>
> Thanks.
>

Hi, yesterday I may have stepped in a thorn or something, and it
irritates my foot a bit.

However, I can't find anything in that sole! Even with a magnifying
glass I can't find any 'puncture' in the skin, I can't find it! I have
dug a bit with a needle in the place where I suspect something, but -
nothing.

What do you all think?
- is it something else? Maybe I have stepped in something, but it is
not stuck in my foot....so it will pass.
- and if there is a small thorn, or piece of stone or glass in, will
it come out by itself, or will it drive itself in deeper and deeper?

I don't want to 'cut up' more skin then necessary, so: do I have to
'dig' to find it, or give it rest first?

Thanks.

I saw this NYT article about health hazards of going barefoot in parks,
especially urban
parks like those in NYC. It also talks about pure pleasures of walking barefoot
as well
which was nice. It says that risk of infection is remote except while walking in
wet grass
with cuts in foot which makes sense to me.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/26/nyregion/26barefoot.html
Hemant
barefootinNY.blogspot.com
Barefoot count: 66mi

May 26, 2008
Barefoot in the Park? Watch Your Step
By ANEMONA HARTOCOLLIS
People have walked barefoot in the grass for thousands of years, and barefoot in
New
York City's parks at least since the days of Olmsted and Vaux. Neil Simon wrote
a play
about it, and Robert Redford and Jane Fonda starred in the movie.

As sun blankets the city, many people hardly think twice before shedding their
inhibitions
— and their shoes. Neither New York's health department nor the parks department
has
any rules against going barefoot on the city's streets or in its parks,
officials said.

But while many doctors say there is nothing wrong with walking barefoot in New
York,
some see small but definite risks. They range from the obvious, like contracting
tetanus
from stepping on a rusty nail, to the invisible, like developing athlete's foot
from walking
in wet grass.

"When something doesn't happen to you, you don't consider yourself lucky," said
Dr.
Judith Hellman, a Manhattan dermatologist and assistant professor at Mount Sinai
School
of Medicine. "But when you go barefoot, you are exposing yourself beyond what
you really
need to."

Don't tell Thao Le, a business development coordinator who, if not for a
drizzle, might
have been among the regulars going shoeless in the emerald green of Bryant Park
in
Midtown the other day.

"You take off your shoes, it's the best," said Ms. Le, 40. "You're in tune with
Mother
Nature."

But, the experts say, it is the grass in many city parks, so innocent-looking,
so tempting,
so redolent of the free-spirited days of childhood, that may pose the most
unexpected
risks, because unlike a rusty nail, they are invisible to the naked eye.

Bacteria are everywhere, from the sidewalks to the subway, and normally, the
skin forms
a fairly good barrier to infection, doctors said. In general, people with cuts
or cracks on
their feet or people with compromised immune systems are more likely to pick up
an
infection from walking barefoot. But getting wet feet by walking barefoot in
damp grass
can damage the skin's natural barrier, allowing infections to take hold, said
Dr. Giuseppe
Militello, an assistant professor of clinical dermatology at Columbia
University.

People could be vulnerable to infection from three main types of organism from
going
barefoot in the grass, he said, including pseudomonas bacteria, the type of
fungus that
causes athlete's foot, and the virus that causes plantar warts.

"These organisms are found in the common environment," Dr. Militello said, "and
you
need to give them the right conditions to infect you."

The right conditions can be found in many manicured city parks, he said, where
the grass
is moist and shaded, well-watered by automatic sprinkler systems, and
well-trampled by
thousands of feet, shod and unshod, human and animal, carrying countless
infectious
organisms.

"It resides in the grass and earth, you pick it up and it festers in your
shoes," Dr. Militello
said. "I think the best thing to do is to wear sandals or flip-flops or to just
not get your
feet wet. And when you do get your feet wet, thoroughly dry them before putting
your
shoes back on."

Dr. Jessica Sessions, a pediatrician at the William F. Ryan Community Health
Center on
the Upper West Side of Manhattan, said she hated to be a spoilsport, but
nonetheless
recommended that her patients wear shoes outdoors. "At least if it's on your
shoe, you
take your shoes off at the door," she said. "If it's on your feet, you bring it
all into the
apartment."

Adrian Benepe, the city's parks commissioner, reacted warily at first when asked
for his
recommendation about going barefoot in the park. "My official view is there's no
rules
against it," he said. "However, in certain areas, like playgrounds, we do advise
people to
wear shoes, particularly children."

The black rubber surface of some playgrounds can get burning hot, he said, and
people
could stub their toes or step on broken glass.

But Mr. Benepe admitted that he allowed his own children, now 17 and 21, to go
barefoot
outdoors, "and they managed to survive."

He even confessed to having done it himself on many a beautiful summer day. Mr.
Benepe
said that doctors, knowing the worst that can happen, "are going to be cautious;
that's
the nature of doctors."

Jerome Barth, the operations director at Bryant Park, works hard to keep his
grass looking
pristine. It is an acre and a quarter of Kentucky bluegrass, the strips of turf
unfurled on
top of six inches of sand and replaced twice a year.

It is picked clean of litter three to four times daily; trod by about 1,200
pairs of feet on a
typical warm sunny afternoon at 1:15, its busiest time; watered at night; and
photographed daily from the 31st floor of a nearby building to detect
imperfections that
cannot be seen at ground level.

Yes, Mr. Barth has shed his shoes outdoors — "mostly on weekends when I have
brought
my little girls to the park," he said — with no ill effects.

"It is pleasant," he said in an e-mail message. "Do you recall that scene in
`Pretty Woman'
where Richard Gere walks barefoot on the grass? The imagery suggests that he
does so to
reconnect to his premogul persona. Well, I think there is a bit of that in every
`barefoot
walk,' one feels a touch closer to nature."

Too close to nature, according to Dr. Militello.

He said he never touched bare toe to public parkland. "If I'm in the park, I put
a blanket
down, and I'm on that blanket and I don't venture off," he said. "The only place
I go
barefoot is on the beach."

In the worst case, pseudomonas bacteria — which Dr. Militello says has a "very
pungent,
vinegary smell"— can be fatal if it gets into the lungs or bloodstream, as it
sometimes
does when it is contracted at hospitals. (Such a serious consequence, he said,
is an
unlikely outcome of a skin infection, whose symptoms would typically be limited
to
redness, pain and pus.)

A parasite like hookworm, carried in dog or cat feces, could also be picked up
in a
sandbox or dirt, though it is more common in the warmer Southeast, doctors said.
Hookworm can cause a rash, or more seriously, anemia.

Dr. Mitchell Greenbaum, a podiatrist affiliated with St. Francis Hospital in
Roslyn, on Long
Island, says he has seen more sprained ankles and stubbed toes than infections
from bare
feet.

Diabetics are more prone to foot injuries, he said, because they tend to have
limited
sensation in their feet and may unwittingly step on hot surfaces or sharp
objects.

But Dr. Hellman, the dermatologist, said that outside of the obvious hazards,
danger
could lurk in even the most innocuous places, like a rose or a lawn.

Grass can be sharp enough to cut, she said, allowing bacteria or parasites to
enter the
skin. Rose bushes can transmit a fungal infection called sporotrichosis. The
fungus could
be injected into the body, she said, just by stepping on a thorn.

But for many people, the joy of feeling the cool grass underfoot may outweigh
one of its
consequences, bromhidrosis, known colloquially as stinky feet, which is caused
by
bacteria that thrive in moist places — and thus is a risk of putting wet feet
back into
shoes and free spirits under wraps again.


Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@...> wrote:
>
> I think if it was connected at the back like a roman sandle the
then it would be normal?
>

The pair that I normally wear seems normal enough even without a back
strap. I happened to put on a pair of my step-son's flip-flops this
morning which were a bit too large for me and a back strap may have
been helpful.

It seems to me that a connection at the back is only beneficial if
the flip-flops are too large for the wearer.

Mike R

>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Mike Rose
>   To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:09 AM
>   Subject: Re: [RunningBarefoot] Misinterpreted ACSM study
>
>
>
>   >Dunno about flip flops though if the heel is not connected at
the back you do use some sort of calf action to flick the back up on
each step which is not very natural.<
>
>
>   I don't think so. At least no more than what I do when running
barefoot to ensure that I do not land/touch on my heel prior to
landing/touching on the mid-sole.
>
>
>
>   Mike R
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message ----
>   From: Antony <rufus@...>
>   To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, June 6, 2008 3:33:36 PM
>   Subject: Re: [RunningBarefoot] Misinterpreted ACSM study
>
>
>
>   Dunno about flip flops though if the heel is not connected at the
back you do use some sort of calf action to flick the back up on each
step which is not very natural. But I think a motion control running
show is more damaging they should worry about that lol
>
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Gene Gugliotta
>     To: runningbarefoot
>     Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 12:24 AM
>     Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Misinterpreted ACSM study
>
>
>     see http://www.acsm. org/AM/Template. cfm?Section=
Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/ HTMLDisplay. cfm&CONTENTID=10104
>
>     http://tinyurl. com/4arnlf
>
>     "By compiling the forces that the foot is exerting on the
ground, they found a statistically significant decrease in the
vertical (straight-down) force in flip-flop wearers."
>
>     Jeeze - ya think anyone would realize that that is a GOOD
thing????!!! !!
>
>     And this is The American College of Sports Medicine!
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
>
>
>     No virus found in this incoming message.
>     Checked by AVG.
>     Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1488 - Release
Date: 6/06/2008 5:48 PM
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
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>   Checked by AVG.
>   Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1488 - Release Date:
6/06/2008 5:48 PM
>

"The major shock absorption occurs back on the heel, and if the
surface between the heel and the ground is not supported it does not
allow the heel to absorb shock as well as it should. Which means the
foot works harder than it should and people tend to develop overuse
injuries such as tendonitis, or in this case, lower leg, knee, hip and
back problems," explained Dr. Rock Positano from the Hospital for
Special Surgery in New York.


Heels that absorb shock? Does this guy know anything about how a foot
is constructed ???????

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Rose

To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 9:09 AM

Subject: Re: [RunningBarefoot] Misinterpreted ACSM study

>Dunno about flip flops though if the heel is not connected at the back you do use some sort of calf action to flick the back up on each step which is not very natural.<

 

I don't think so. At least no more than what I do when running barefoot to ensure that I do not land/touch on my heel prior to landing/touching on the mid-sole.

 

Mike R

----- Original Message ----
From: Antony <rufus@bigpond.net.au>
To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 6, 2008 3:33:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RunningBarefoot] Misinterpreted ACSM study

Dunno about flip flops though if the heel is not connected at the back you do use some sort of calf action to flick the back up on each step which is not very natural. But I think a motion control running show is more damaging they should worry about that lol

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene Gugliotta

To: runningbarefoot

Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 12:24 AM

Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Misinterpreted ACSM study

see http://www.acsm. org/AM/Template. cfm?Section= Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/ HTMLDisplay. cfm&CONTENTID=10104

http://tinyurl. com/4arnlf

"By compiling the forces that the foot is exerting on the ground, they found a statistically significant decrease in the vertical (straight-down) force in flip-flop wearers."

Jeeze - ya think anyone would realize that that is a GOOD thing????!!! !!

And this is The American College of Sports Medicine!

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
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---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1488 - Release Date: 6/06/2008 5:48 PM

Hi Benny, Congratulations! Are you thinking of running barefoot? I got in as
well though I
am very sceptical if I will run all of it barefoot considering I just started
running barefoot.
But I am thinking of at least finishing barefoot somehow.

I have run it twice in shoes and I suspect the course is not the most-barefoot
friendly. I
expect the course to be full of every possible man-made surface you can ever
imagine.
But with all the crowd, it should be a lot of fun running it barefoot.

Has anyone actually run nycm barefoot? I remember Barefoot Rick on FOX TV last
year
talking about it.

Hemant
Barefoot in NY for 66mi
Barefootinny.blogspot.com



--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "purplelephant83" <benfoltz@...> wrote:
>
> just found out this morning i was selected from the lottery to run the
> ny marathon this november!  is anyone else here running it this year?
> has anyone ran it before barefoot?  how was it if so, or what do you
> think it would be like?
>
> cheers!!!!
>
> benny
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene Gugliotta

To: runningbarefoot

Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2008 12:24 AM

Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Misinterpreted ACSM study

see http://www.acsm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=10104

http://tinyurl.com/4arnlf

"By compiling the forces that the foot is exerting on the ground, they found a statistically significant decrease in the vertical (straight-down) force in flip-flop wearers."

Jeeze - ya think anyone would realize that that is a GOOD thing????!!!!!

And this is The American College of Sports Medicine!

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.6/1488 - Release Date: 6/06/2008 5:48 PM

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Springtime/story?id=5013448&page=1
Cheers
-VJ

just found out this morning i was selected from the lottery to run the
ny marathon this november!  is anyone else here running it this year?
has anyone ran it before barefoot?  how was it if so, or what do you
think it would be like?

cheers!!!!

benny

The fam and I will be there next month. Haven't been to Paris since
2000. I wasn't running barefoot then, but I remember there were some
excellent fine gravel walkways from the Louvre to the Place De La
Concorde and also around Luxembourg Gardens. Looking forward to it.
Glad you had fun.

BR

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, Richard Geller <rgeller@...>
wrote:
>
> I went around Paris mostly without shoes. I got no comments and a few
> but very few strange looks.
>
> Didn't run because I was walking for hours each day. It was fun!
>
> --Richard
>

I went around Paris mostly without shoes. I got no comments and a few
but very few strange looks.

Didn't run because I was walking for hours each day. It was fun!

--Richard

Thanks Jon. Actually, this year I think I will try to break my 40
mile BF personal record. We have 9 hours and 11 minutes to do it on
9/11.

http://www.barefootrunner.org/reports/06patriots/06patriots.htm

BR

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, tetsujin87@... wrote:
>
>
> how are the soles, . . . vibrams and yours after 100K?
>
> I did my first one last year in Merrell Bahria trail thongs with
vibram-like
> tough soles but the soles wore through on the drugstore variety  I
was
> wearing for this year's version last saturday.
>
> We had the new-this-year Green Lake Dizzy Daze 50K/100K on a
smooth 2.8 mile
> loop bike path at the end of March.  Without much winter  running,
I could
> only do 50K but may try some winter running to be ready for a
barefoot 100K
> like Barefoot Ted has done. _www.barefootted.com_
(http://www.barefootted.com)
>
> Hope you get a chance for a barefoot ultra sometime too
> You're very ready
>
> I think the ultra-runningbarefooters in official events so far are:
>
> kenbob - 50K
> chris - 50K (six of 'em)
> ted - 50K-100K
> rick - 40 miles _www.barefootrunner.org_
(http://www.barefootrunner.org)  @
> 2006  events
> jon - 50K
>
> --- In _RunningBarefoot@RunningBarefRun_
> (mailto:RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com) ,  "sharenehurnen"
> <sharenehurnen@sha> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,  not exactly a barefoot story, though I usually do run
> > barefoot. This  was a 100k trail run in the Blue Mountains of New
South
> > Wales  Australia. I used the Vibram Five Finger Flows for the
whole
> > distance.  It was very cold with a light amount of snow at one
point
> > during the  night! The run was awesome and even better for doing
it as
> > close to  barefoot as possible.
> >
> > I love to read all the stories here, as  there are so few of us
barefoot
> > runners in Aussie... slowly converting  a few here and there ;)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1477 - Release Date:
1/06/2008
> 5:28 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking
with
> Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
> (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?
&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver

To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 10:22 AM

Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to barefooting?

Interesting observation. I have noticed that my easiest running form
not only feels like I am leaning on the edge of falling over (forward)
but it feels like I have some "hang-time" in the air. I'm not sure how
to explain it. I feel like there is a moment during the mid-point of
each stride when my body is hanging in the air while both feet are off
the ground. This doesn't mean my head is bobbing up and down, it feels
like my body is gliding along on a plane above the ground and my feet
are just touching down briefly enough to keep me on that plane.

Contrast that to other times when I feel like I am just plodding along
with "sticky feet" -- meaning my feet have maximum contact with the
ground. I feel heavier and my feet suffer more rubbing and twisting
along with the extra contact.

Of course I'd rather enjoy the first feeling than the second while
running, but sometimes my body and brain just don't agree and I
struggle to retain that first form in my psyche.

Ryan

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Bob Saxton" <KenBob@...>
wrote:
>
> If the rear leg is trailing too long, it is difficult to get the foot
> in position for the next step. In other words, the quick pull up of the
> foot, helps keep up the momentum of a faster cadence.
>
> Have fun,
> -barefoot ken bob
>
> --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver"
> <ardydub@> wrote:
> >
> > Something else to consider --
> >
> > It makes a difference on the feet on when they are supporting weight.
> > If your legs are extended behind you, they have little to no real
> > weight on them, so it doesn't really matter. I'm not sure there is a
> > real difference between a quick leg-pulling up versus an extending
> > backwards leg. The real work is being done upon foot placement and the
> > transfer of body weight from one leg to the other.
> >
> > Ryan
>

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.5/1479 - Release Date: 2/06/2008 7:02 PM

Interesting observation. I have noticed that my easiest running form
not only feels like I am leaning on the edge of falling over (forward)
but it feels like I have some "hang-time" in the air. I'm not sure how
to explain it. I feel like there is a moment during the mid-point of
each stride when my body is hanging in the air while both feet are off
the ground. This doesn't mean my head is bobbing up and down, it feels
like my body is gliding along on a plane above the ground and my feet
are just touching down briefly enough to keep me on that plane.

Contrast that to other times when I feel like I am just plodding along
with "sticky feet" -- meaning my feet have maximum contact with the
ground.  I feel heavier and my feet suffer more rubbing and twisting
along with the extra contact.

Of course I'd rather enjoy the first feeling than the second while
running, but sometimes my body and brain just don't agree and I
struggle to retain that first form in my psyche.

Ryan



--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Bob Saxton" <KenBob@...>
wrote:
>
> If the rear leg is trailing too long, it is difficult to get the foot
> in position for the next step. In other words, the quick pull up of the
> foot, helps keep up the momentum of a faster cadence.
>
> Have fun,
> -barefoot ken bob
>
> --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver"
> <ardydub@> wrote:
> >
> > Something else to consider --
> >
> > It makes a difference on the feet on when they are supporting weight.
> > If your legs are extended behind you, they have little to no real
> > weight on them, so it doesn't really matter. I'm not sure there is a
> > real difference between a quick leg-pulling up versus an extending
> > backwards leg. The real work is being done upon foot placement and the
> > transfer of body weight from one leg to the other.
> >
> > Ryan
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver

To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:40 AM

Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: 100k Trail in Vibrams

100K? Wow, what a distance to be able to run!!
I am impressed!!

Ryan

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "sharenehurnen"
<sharenehurnen@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all, not exactly a barefoot story, though I usually do run
> barefoot. This was a 100k trail run in the Blue Mountains of New South
> Wales Australia. I used the Vibram Five Finger Flows for the whole
> distance. It was very cold with a light amount of snow at one point
> during the night! The run was awesome and even better for doing it as
> close to barefoot as possible.
>
> I love to read all the stories here, as there are so few of us barefoot
> runners in Aussie... slowly converting a few here and there ;)
>

---

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Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1477 - Release Date: 1/06/2008 5:28 PM

----- Original Message -----

From: Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver

To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 5:38 AM

Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to barefooting?

Something else to consider --

It makes a difference on the feet on when they are supporting weight.
If your legs are extended behind you, they have little to no real
weight on them, so it doesn't really matter. I'm not sure there is a
real difference between a quick leg-pulling up versus an extending
backwards leg. The real work is being done upon foot placement and the
transfer of body weight from one leg to the other.

Ryan

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <judd_e_boy@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, I find that all the world-class runners I study do bounce
> when they run (distance runners, that is). However, the smooth glide
> you describe is perfectly valid, and less taxing on the tendons, and
> is probably safer for your average Joe with a desk job. Keep in
> mind, those bouncing guys are usually very skinny so they can
> probably get away with more bouncing than the average Joe, as well.
> But you don't have to bounce a lot to extend your leg behind you.
> You don't have to bounce at all if you don't want to, actually, as in
> walking, but a little bounce helps take advantage of the body's
> natural springs.
>
> When I think about lengthening my stride, I don't reach out in front
> of me, but rather, extend my leg behind me.
>
> As far as how far in front to touch down, I'd say do whatever feels
> best. Start by landing directly under you, then let your plant foot
> creep forwards a little, by a centimeter at a time with each step,
> and you might find a sweet spot.
>
> Justin
>
>
>
> --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > But when I lengthen the stride too much I find you end up landing
> in front a bit, then you get the shin splints and stuff like that
> coming back since you loading in front of you body mass? You can do
> it for short distances. But you also break if you land in front of
> you its better to land just below you and have your weight overall
> forward to move instead?
> >
> > Antony
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Justin
> > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 11:06 AM
> > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
> barefooting?
> >
> >
> > Yes, that's what I mean. I often watch runners in slo-mo on my
> TiVo
> > and notice that their legs extend at the end of the stance phase
> (and
> > their heads rise at this time, too), which seems to go against
> what
> > Pose recommends. If they were just falling forward, like Romanov
> > says they are, why would their heads rise?
> >
> > I think Pose wants a shorter stride and a faster cadence, whereas
> I
> > like to sometimes lengthen my stride a bit, taking full advantage
> of
> > the hip's range of motion, and the natural long length of my
> human
> > legs. When I do this, my cadence actually slows a little bit.
> >
> > I'm not talking about loping or jogging, mind you!
> >
> > Justin
> >
> > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
> > >
> > > lol no I'm not. Just trying to work out how to run, and it
> seems to
> > work. Guess I'm still wearing very minimal flats. I'm just open
> to
> > all suggestions.
> > >
> > > What do you mean by the leg extending? You mean the leg
> dropping
> > after the stance you want it to push out more behind before it
> drops?
> > >
> > > Antony
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Justin
> > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:48 AM
> > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
> > barefooting?
> > >
> > >
> > > Are you on Romanov's payroll? lol.
> > >
> > > I think Pose is a valid way of running, but it isn't the only
> > valid
> > > way. If it's working for you, though, then great!
> > >
> > > I think that Pose advocates not extending the leg at the end of
> > the
> > > stance phase, which I don't necessarily totally agree with. I
> > don't
> > > mean your leg should be completely straight at the end of the
> > stance
> > > phase, but mine definitely straightens, which, by the way,
> calls
> > for
> > > flexible hip flexors.
> > >
> > > Justin
> > >
> > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Dunno, but the problem has gone away. Guess it was the
> > asymmetry of
> > > the two feet landing was throwing it off.
> > > >
> > > > I find that the Pose method works really well I think its a
> > quicker
> > > way to "find" that form that you might be looking for since you
> > can
> > > use some of the drills to train yourself to run "right". Its
> > pretty
> > > much the same as Ken says, he just has some DVD's to watch.
> Maybe
> > Ken
> > > should make some DVD's/books on barefoot running so people can
> > watch
> > > and learn visually as well ;)
> > > >
> > > > The most important thing is to pull that foot off the ground
> up
> > > towards your pelvis/butt without delay, you don't ever push or
> > > stretch out in any way. Even sprinting. What you have to
> > visualise is
> > > pulling your back foot up really fast, and then letting gravity
> > > release it back down with no musclar involvment don't let it
> push
> > > back down. You must not let the foot fall down from the Pose
> > postion
> > > before you've lifted up your other foot. So the landing foot
> gets
> > > pulled up before you drop your floating one. That's why you
> just
> > have
> > > to think pull the foot up all the time without delay, that's
> the
> > only
> > > thing you do. So you only use one muscle, the hamstring of the
> > upper
> > > leg, and its your slight lean forward (gravity) that makes you
> > run
> > > bending at the ankle not the waist. You just think, fire the
> > > hamstring over and over that's it. Also really important is
> your
> > > knees must always be bent so your a constant S shape, its lilke
> > your
> > > sort of sitting all the time like a big spring. You also must
> > make
> > > sure your landing is right below you never in front at all, if
> > you
> > > want to go fast your just increase the cadence and make the
> foot
> > come
> > > higher up to your bum and you land on the forefoot but very
> > briefly.
> > > Your very slow at pulling the foot so your loading your shins
> on
> > > landing as your getting an active landing and landing in front
> > with a
> > > straight knee. It'll be hard to do his style with your thick
> heel
> > > shoe, since you don't need the heel anymore anyway. Once I
> > mastered
> > > pulling the foot off the ground firing the hamstring nothing
> > hurts
> > > anymore since my mass is not directed in front of my body
> anymore
> > its
> > > all lined up. If I get injured its only because I deviated out
> of
> > the
> > > form.
> > > >
> > > > Antony
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Justin
> > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:30 AM
> > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
> > > barefooting?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Anthony,
> > > >
> > > > I agree that the order of landing you describe is a valid
> one,
> > > but
> > > > sometimes it feels like my BOF/1st metatarsal touches the
> > ground
> > > > first depending on a bunch of different variables (surface,
> > > speeds,
> > > > levelness or ground, etc).
> > > >
> > > > I don't try to come up with a certain landing order and
> > > say, "This is
> > > > how it must always be!" I actually always play it by ear...or
> > > should
> > > > I say, play it by sole?
> > > >
> > > > Justin
> > > >
> > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Guess what I worked out what was giving me the
> > ankle/achillies
> > > pain.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was not landing properly on the outer pad first on the
> > right
> > > > foot, so I just replicated the it on the right foot and now
> its
> > > > completely gone! And I did some really hard track sessions
> and
> > I
> > > feel
> > > > like I havn't even trainined nothing hurts at all. I must
> have
> > > been
> > > > guarding it when I first started running differently.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the most important things are
> > > > >
> > > > > (a) Don't land in front of you at all
> > > > > (b) Lift that back leg up quickly all the time, keep
> > > reinforcing
> > > > the lift the leg at the back and have no active push movement
> > at
> > > all
> > > > > (c) land on the forefoot stuff the heel lol, animals don't
> > have
> > > > heels
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And now pain free, time to move onto the VFFs soon ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > Antony
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Justin
> > > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:14 PM
> > > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning
> to
> > > > barefooting?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lemme clarify, pronating is good, over-pronating is bad. I
> > > think
> > > > a
> > > > > better term than "over-pronating" might be "pre-pronating"
> > > > because
> > > > > the foot lands alread pronated, so there is no spring
> effect
> > to
> > > > > absorb the shock. Then the body weight rolls to the inside
> of
> > > the
> > > > > first metatarsal, when it should roll forward over it. The
> > > result
> > > > is
> > > > > twisting of the ball of the foot on the ground on "push
> off."
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you correct this when you are not barefoot? I don't
> > > think
> > > > you
> > > > > can. I think you should run barefoot.
> > > > >
> > > > > When you run barefoot, you can correct it by listening to
> > your
> > > > soles
> > > > > and discovering when and why the abrasion occurs, and then
> > make
> > > > > adjustments to eliminate it. When I first started running
> > > > barefoot,
> > > > > I tried to eliminate the abrasion by not putting much
> weight
> > on
> > > > my
> > > > > forefeet at all. As it turns out, this was wrong, although
> it
> > > > helped
> > > > > minimize the abrasion. Now that I'm a few years in, I know
> > that
> > > > the
> > > > > forefeet carry a great deal of body weight during each step.
> > > > >
> > > > > Justin
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So if you slightly pronate how do you correct it if your
> > > > wearing
> > > > > neutral shoes or barefoot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is just landing not too far forward enough to reduce the
> > > stress
> > > > > that is occuring?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Justin
> > > > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:37 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about
> transitioning
> > to
> > > > > barefooting?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether your gait is narrow or wide, you still should
> > pronate
> > > > in
> > > > > > every step. The angle might be slightly different, but
> > there
> > > is
> > > > > > still pronation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Justin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does anyone think that the width of your feet when
> > landing
> > > > > causes
> > > > > > you to pronate. I mean if your landing with your feet too
> > > close
> > > > > to
> > > > > > each other does this cause you to pronate a bit since
> your
> > > > ankle
> > > > > > would be a bit more bent?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: Barefoot Rick
> > > > > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:42 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about
> > transitioning
> > > to
> > > > > > barefooting?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Twisting off" would imply pronation or supination, in
> or
> > > > out.
> > > > > > Personally, that was not my problem as I found out when I
> > > > started
> > > > > BF
> > > > > > running. I was fortunate that I did not have to correct a
> > lot
> > > > of
> > > > > bad
> > > > > > form when I started, just mainly over-striding. Hence,
> most
> > > of
> > > > > > blisters were on my heels! Ha!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regarding trail running, I run trails barefoot that are
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > limestone, broken rock, tree rooty type here in the
> > midwest.
> > > > Your
> > > > > > typical Ozarky type trails. While they do not have the
> same
> > > > > > characteristics as desert trails (e.g. goat head
> stickers,
> > > > rocks,
> > > > > > cacti), they have their liabilities as well. We do have
> > some
> > > > > prickly
> > > > > > pear and yucca on some of our more arid trails in this
> > area.
> > > > > Barefoot
> > > > > > is doable. It's just a matter of speed and distance ...
> > what
> > > is
> > > > > > comfortable to the runner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BR
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > > > > > ---------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who
> are
> > > > > > perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power
> of
> > > > God. -
> > > > > I
> > > > > > Corinthians 1:18
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Bare Soul
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > About Barefoot Rick
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Barefoot Rick's BarefootRunner.Org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Polaske"
> > > > > > <tiggermaxcocoa@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think Justin is VERY correct in saying that most
> shod
> > > > > runners
> > > > > > have a
> > > > > > > > "twist" at push-off. I have been noticing this for a
> > > while,
> > > > > > thinking
> > > > > > > > eventually my soles would be capable of handling
> this.
> > I
> > > > > guess
> > > > > > that's
> > > > > > > > not the case, huh?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'd like to present another question...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I run most of my miles on pretty rough trails here in
> > > > Tucson.
> > > > > > > > Currently, I wear very minimal shoes with trail
> gaitors
> > > to
> > > > > > protect my
> > > > > > > > feet and ankles from all the rock and thorns. At this
> > > > point,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > not imagine running these trails even with VFFs.
> > > > Barefooting
> > > > > > here on
> > > > > > > > these trails seems impossible. Anyone have any
> > experience
> > > > > with
> > > > > > this?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --Nate
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Cox"
> > > > > wisc_galoot@
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I agree with Justin, it sounds like you'r running
> > > > barefoot
> > > > > > like you
> > > > > > > > > run in shoes or VFF's. Even when I run in my
> > > lightweight
> > > > > aqua
> > > > > > socks,
> > > > > > > > > I'm sure my running style is different, and I push
> > off
> > > > more
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > probably twist a bit too. This is where I really
> > agree
> > > > with
> > > > > > Ken
> > > > > > > > > Bob--you don't learn to run barefoot by running
> shod,
> > > > even
> > > > > if
> > > > > > you're
> > > > > > > > > just wearing Vibram FF's.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You've only been barefooting a month? It took me
> over
> > a
> > > > > year
> > > > > > to figure
> > > > > > > > > out how to run properly while barefoot, and I'm
> still
> > > > > > learning new
> > > > > > > > > things with each run. I've been doing this for
> three
> > > > years
> > > > > > now, and
> > > > > > > > > I'm only now realizing how much I need to bend my
> > knees
> > > > > when
> > > > > > running.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I recommend slowing *way* down, and running at a 10
> > or
> > > 11
> > > > > > > > > minute-per-mile pace, or even slower. Relax the
> lower
> > > leg
> > > > > as
> > > > > > much as
> > > > > > > > > possible, and your body will eventually lead you to
> > the
> > > > > > proper way to
> > > > > > > > > run barefoot. When you get ther, you'll probably
> have
> > > > > an "ah
> > > > > > ha!"
> > > > > > > > > moment. I certainly did!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Barefoot Kelly in Madison
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> --
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> > > > > > >
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> > Release
> > > > > Date:
> > > > > > 25/05/2008 6:49 PM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > >
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> > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release
> > > Date:
> > > > 25/05/2008 6:49 PM
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > > Checked by AVG.
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> Date:
> > 29/05/2008 7:53 PM
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1473 - Release Date:
> 29/05/2008 7:53 PM
> >
>

---

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Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1477 - Release Date: 1/06/2008 5:28 PM

If the rear leg is trailing too long, it is difficult to get the foot
in position for the next step. In other words, the quick pull up of the
foot, helps keep up the momentum of a faster cadence.

Have fun,
-barefoot ken bob

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver"
<ardydub@...> wrote:
>
> Something else to consider --
>
> It makes a difference on the feet on when they are supporting weight.
> If your legs are extended behind you, they have little to no real
> weight on them, so it doesn't really matter. I'm not sure there is a
> real difference between a quick leg-pulling up versus an extending
> backwards leg. The real work is being done upon foot placement and the
> transfer of body weight from one leg to the other.
>
> Ryan

100K? Wow, what a distance to be able to run!!
I am impressed!!

Ryan


--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "sharenehurnen"
<sharenehurnen@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all, not exactly a barefoot story, though I usually do run
> barefoot.  This was a 100k trail run in the Blue Mountains of New South
> Wales Australia.  I used the Vibram Five Finger Flows for the whole
> distance.  It was very cold with a light amount of snow at one point
> during the night!  The run was awesome and even better for doing it as
> close to barefoot as possible.
>
> I love to read all the stories here, as there are so few of us barefoot
> runners in Aussie... slowly converting a few here and there ;)
>

Something else to consider --

It makes a difference on the feet on when they are supporting weight.
If your legs are extended behind you, they have little to no real
weight on them, so it doesn't really matter. I'm not sure there is a
real difference between a quick leg-pulling up versus an extending
backwards leg. The real work is being done upon foot placement and the
transfer of body weight from one leg to the other.

Ryan

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <judd_e_boy@...> wrote:
>
> Actually, I find that all the world-class runners I study do bounce
> when they run (distance runners, that is).  However, the smooth glide
> you describe is perfectly valid, and less taxing on the tendons, and
> is probably safer for your average Joe with a desk job.  Keep in
> mind, those bouncing guys are usually very skinny so they can
> probably get away with more bouncing than the average Joe, as well.
> But you don't have to bounce a lot to extend your leg behind you.
> You don't have to bounce at all if you don't want to, actually, as in
> walking, but a little bounce helps take advantage of the body's
> natural springs.
>
> When I think about lengthening my stride, I don't reach out in front
> of me, but rather, extend my leg behind me.
>
> As far as how far in front to touch down, I'd say do whatever feels
> best.  Start by landing directly under you, then let your plant foot
> creep forwards a little, by a centimeter at a time with each step,
> and you might find a sweet spot.
>
> Justin
>
>
>
> --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > But when I lengthen the stride too much I find you end up landing
> in front a bit, then you get the shin splints and stuff like that
> coming back since you loading in front of you body mass? You can do
> it for short distances. But you also break if you land in front of
> you its better to land just below you and have your weight overall
> forward to move instead?
> >
> > Antony
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Justin
> >   To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 11:06 AM
> >   Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
> barefooting?
> >
> >
> >   Yes, that's what I mean. I often watch runners in slo-mo on my
> TiVo
> >   and notice that their legs extend at the end of the stance phase
> (and
> >   their heads rise at this time, too), which seems to go against
> what
> >   Pose recommends. If they were just falling forward, like Romanov
> >   says they are, why would their heads rise?
> >
> >   I think Pose wants a shorter stride and a faster cadence, whereas
> I
> >   like to sometimes lengthen my stride a bit, taking full advantage
> of
> >   the hip's range of motion, and the natural long length of my
> human
> >   legs. When I do this, my cadence actually slows a little bit.
> >
> >   I'm not talking about loping or jogging, mind you!
> >
> >   Justin
> >
> >   --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
> >   >
> >   > lol no I'm not. Just trying to work out how to run, and it
> seems to
> >   work. Guess I'm still wearing very minimal flats. I'm just open
> to
> >   all suggestions.
> >   >
> >   > What do you mean by the leg extending? You mean the leg
> dropping
> >   after the stance you want it to push out more behind before it
> drops?
> >   >
> >   > Antony
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > From: Justin
> >   > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> >   > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:48 AM
> >   > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
> >   barefooting?
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > Are you on Romanov's payroll? lol.
> >   >
> >   > I think Pose is a valid way of running, but it isn't the only
> >   valid
> >   > way. If it's working for you, though, then great!
> >   >
> >   > I think that Pose advocates not extending the leg at the end of
> >   the
> >   > stance phase, which I don't necessarily totally agree with. I
> >   don't
> >   > mean your leg should be completely straight at the end of the
> >   stance
> >   > phase, but mine definitely straightens, which, by the way,
> calls
> >   for
> >   > flexible hip flexors.
> >   >
> >   > Justin
> >   >
> >   > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
> >   > >
> >   > > Hi,
> >   > >
> >   > > Dunno, but the problem has gone away. Guess it was the
> >   asymmetry of
> >   > the two feet landing was throwing it off.
> >   > >
> >   > > I find that the Pose method works really well I think its a
> >   quicker
> >   > way to "find" that form that you might be looking for since you
> >   can
> >   > use some of the drills to train yourself to run "right". Its
> >   pretty
> >   > much the same as Ken says, he just has some DVD's to watch.
> Maybe
> >   Ken
> >   > should make some DVD's/books on barefoot running so people can
> >   watch
> >   > and learn visually as well ;)
> >   > >
> >   > > The most important thing is to pull that foot off the ground
> up
> >   > towards your pelvis/butt without delay, you don't ever push or
> >   > stretch out in any way. Even sprinting. What you have to
> >   visualise is
> >   > pulling your back foot up really fast, and then letting gravity
> >   > release it back down with no musclar involvment don't let it
> push
> >   > back down. You must not let the foot fall down from the Pose
> >   postion
> >   > before you've lifted up your other foot. So the landing foot
> gets
> >   > pulled up before you drop your floating one. That's why you
> just
> >   have
> >   > to think pull the foot up all the time without delay, that's
> the
> >   only
> >   > thing you do. So you only use one muscle, the hamstring of the
> >   upper
> >   > leg, and its your slight lean forward (gravity) that makes you
> >   run
> >   > bending at the ankle not the waist. You just think, fire the
> >   > hamstring over and over that's it. Also really important is
> your
> >   > knees must always be bent so your a constant S shape, its lilke
> >   your
> >   > sort of sitting all the time like a big spring. You also must
> >   make
> >   > sure your landing is right below you never in front at all, if
> >   you
> >   > want to go fast your just increase the cadence and make the
> foot
> >   come
> >   > higher up to your bum and you land on the forefoot but very
> >   briefly.
> >   > Your very slow at pulling the foot so your loading your shins
> on
> >   > landing as your getting an active landing and landing in front
> >   with a
> >   > straight knee. It'll be hard to do his style with your thick
> heel
> >   > shoe, since you don't need the heel anymore anyway. Once I
> >   mastered
> >   > pulling the foot off the ground firing the hamstring nothing
> >   hurts
> >   > anymore since my mass is not directed in front of my body
> anymore
> >   its
> >   > all lined up. If I get injured its only because I deviated out
> of
> >   the
> >   > form.
> >   > >
> >   > > Antony
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > From: Justin
> >   > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> >   > > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:30 AM
> >   > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
> >   > barefooting?
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > > Hi Anthony,
> >   > >
> >   > > I agree that the order of landing you describe is a valid
> one,
> >   > but
> >   > > sometimes it feels like my BOF/1st metatarsal touches the
> >   ground
> >   > > first depending on a bunch of different variables (surface,
> >   > speeds,
> >   > > levelness or ground, etc).
> >   > >
> >   > > I don't try to come up with a certain landing order and
> >   > say, "This is
> >   > > how it must always be!" I actually always play it by ear...or
> >   > should
> >   > > I say, play it by sole?
> >   > >
> >   > > Justin
> >   > >
> >   > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@>
> wrote:
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Guess what I worked out what was giving me the
> >   ankle/achillies
> >   > pain.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > I was not landing properly on the outer pad first on the
> >   right
> >   > > foot, so I just replicated the it on the right foot and now
> its
> >   > > completely gone! And I did some really hard track sessions
> and
> >   I
> >   > feel
> >   > > like I havn't even trainined nothing hurts at all. I must
> have
> >   > been
> >   > > guarding it when I first started running differently.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > I think the most important things are
> >   > > >
> >   > > > (a) Don't land in front of you at all
> >   > > > (b) Lift that back leg up quickly all the time, keep
> >   > reinforcing
> >   > > the lift the leg at the back and have no active push movement
> >   at
> >   > all
> >   > > > (c) land on the forefoot stuff the heel lol, animals don't
> >   have
> >   > > heels
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > > And now pain free, time to move onto the VFFs soon ;)
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Antony
> >   > > >
> >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > From: Justin
> >   > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> >   > > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:14 PM
> >   > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning
> to
> >   > > barefooting?
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Lemme clarify, pronating is good, over-pronating is bad. I
> >   > think
> >   > > a
> >   > > > better term than "over-pronating" might be "pre-pronating"
> >   > > because
> >   > > > the foot lands alread pronated, so there is no spring
> effect
> >   to
> >   > > > absorb the shock. Then the body weight rolls to the inside
> of
> >   > the
> >   > > > first metatarsal, when it should roll forward over it. The
> >   > result
> >   > > is
> >   > > > twisting of the ball of the foot on the ground on "push
> off."
> >   > > >
> >   > > > How do you correct this when you are not barefoot? I don't
> >   > think
> >   > > you
> >   > > > can. I think you should run barefoot.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > When you run barefoot, you can correct it by listening to
> >   your
> >   > > soles
> >   > > > and discovering when and why the abrasion occurs, and then
> >   make
> >   > > > adjustments to eliminate it. When I first started running
> >   > > barefoot,
> >   > > > I tried to eliminate the abrasion by not putting much
> weight
> >   on
> >   > > my
> >   > > > forefeet at all. As it turns out, this was wrong, although
> it
> >   > > helped
> >   > > > minimize the abrasion. Now that I'm a few years in, I know
> >   that
> >   > > the
> >   > > > forefeet carry a great deal of body weight during each step.
> >   > > >
> >   > > > Justin
> >   > > >
> >   > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@>
> >   wrote:
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > So if you slightly pronate how do you correct it if your
> >   > > wearing
> >   > > > neutral shoes or barefoot.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > Is just landing not too far forward enough to reduce the
> >   > stress
> >   > > > that is occuring?
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > From: Justin
> >   > > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> >   > > > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:37 AM
> >   > > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about
> transitioning
> >   to
> >   > > > barefooting?
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > Whether your gait is narrow or wide, you still should
> >   pronate
> >   > > in
> >   > > > > every step. The angle might be slightly different, but
> >   there
> >   > is
> >   > > > > still pronation.
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > Justin
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@>
> >   > wrote:
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Does anyone think that the width of your feet when
> >   landing
> >   > > > causes
> >   > > > > you to pronate. I mean if your landing with your feet too
> >   > close
> >   > > > to
> >   > > > > each other does this cause you to pronate a bit since
> your
> >   > > ankle
> >   > > > > would be a bit more bent?
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > > > > > From: Barefoot Rick
> >   > > > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
> >   > > > > > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:42 PM
> >   > > > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about
> >   transitioning
> >   > to
> >   > > > > barefooting?
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > "Twisting off" would imply pronation or supination, in
> or
> >   > > out.
> >   > > > > Personally, that was not my problem as I found out when I
> >   > > started
> >   > > > BF
> >   > > > > running. I was fortunate that I did not have to correct a
> >   lot
> >   > > of
> >   > > > bad
> >   > > > > form when I started, just mainly over-striding. Hence,
> most
> >   > of
> >   > > > > blisters were on my heels! Ha!
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Regarding trail running, I run trails barefoot that are
> >   of
> >   > > the
> >   > > > > limestone, broken rock, tree rooty type here in the
> >   midwest.
> >   > > Your
> >   > > > > typical Ozarky type trails. While they do not have the
> same
> >   > > > > characteristics as desert trails (e.g. goat head
> stickers,
> >   > > rocks,
> >   > > > > cacti), they have their liabilities as well. We do have
> >   some
> >   > > > prickly
> >   > > > > pear and yucca on some of our more arid trails in this
> >   area.
> >   > > > Barefoot
> >   > > > > is doable. It's just a matter of speed and distance ...
> >   what
> >   > is
> >   > > > > comfortable to the runner.
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > BR
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> --
> >   > > > > ---------------------------
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who
> are
> >   > > > > perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power
> of
> >   > > God. -
> >   > > > I
> >   > > > > Corinthians 1:18
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > The Bare Soul
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > About Barefoot Rick
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > Barefoot Rick's BarefootRunner.Org
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Polaske"
> >   > > > > <tiggermaxcocoa@> wrote:
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > I think Justin is VERY correct in saying that most
> shod
> >   > > > runners
> >   > > > > have a
> >   > > > > > > "twist" at push-off. I have been noticing this for a
> >   > while,
> >   > > > > thinking
> >   > > > > > > eventually my soles would be capable of handling
> this.
> >   I
> >   > > > guess
> >   > > > > that's
> >   > > > > > > not the case, huh?
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > I'd like to present another question...
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > I run most of my miles on pretty rough trails here in
> >   > > Tucson.
> >   > > > > > > Currently, I wear very minimal shoes with trail
> gaitors
> >   > to
> >   > > > > protect my
> >   > > > > > > feet and ankles from all the rock and thorns. At this
> >   > > point,
> >   > > > I
> >   > > > > can
> >   > > > > > > not imagine running these trails even with VFFs.
> >   > > Barefooting
> >   > > > > here on
> >   > > > > > > these trails seems impossible. Anyone have any
> >   experience
> >   > > > with
> >   > > > > this?
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > --Nate
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Cox"
> >   > > > wisc_galoot@
> >   > > > > > > wrote:
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > I agree with Justin, it sounds like you'r running
> >   > > barefoot
> >   > > > > like you
> >   > > > > > > > run in shoes or VFF's. Even when I run in my
> >   > lightweight
> >   > > > aqua
> >   > > > > socks,
> >   > > > > > > > I'm sure my running style is different, and I push
> >   off
> >   > > more
> >   > > > > and
> >   > > > > > > > probably twist a bit too. This is where I really
> >   agree
> >   > > with
> >   > > > > Ken
> >   > > > > > > > Bob--you don't learn to run barefoot by running
> shod,
> >   > > even
> >   > > > if
> >   > > > > you're
> >   > > > > > > > just wearing Vibram FF's.
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > You've only been barefooting a month? It took me
> over
> >   a
> >   > > > year
> >   > > > > to figure
> >   > > > > > > > out how to run properly while barefoot, and I'm
> still
> >   > > > > learning new
> >   > > > > > > > things with each run. I've been doing this for
> three
> >   > > years
> >   > > > > now, and
> >   > > > > > > > I'm only now realizing how much I need to bend my
> >   knees
> >   > > > when
> >   > > > > running.
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > I recommend slowing *way* down, and running at a 10
> >   or
> >   > 11
> >   > > > > > > > minute-per-mile pace, or even slower. Relax the
> lower
> >   > leg
> >   > > > as
> >   > > > > much as
> >   > > > > > > > possible, and your body will eventually lead you to
> >   the
> >   > > > > proper way to
> >   > > > > > > > run barefoot. When you get ther, you'll probably
> have
> >   > > > an "ah
> >   > > > > ha!"
> >   > > > > > > > moment. I certainly did!
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > > > Barefoot Kelly in Madison
> >   > > > > > > >
> >   > > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------
> --
> >   > > > > ----------
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   > > > > > Checked by AVG.
> >   > > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 -
> >   Release
> >   > > > Date:
> >   > > > > 25/05/2008 6:49 PM
> >   > > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >   > > > ----------
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > >
> >   > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   > > > > Checked by AVG.
> >   > > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 -
> Release
> >   > > Date:
> >   > > > 25/05/2008 6:49 PM
> >   > > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >   > > ----------
> >   > > >
> >   > > >
> >   > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   > > > Checked by AVG.
> >   > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release
> >   > Date:
> >   > > 25/05/2008 6:49 PM
> >   > > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >   > ----------
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   > > Checked by AVG.
> >   > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1473 - Release
> >   Date:
> >   > 29/05/2008 7:53 PM
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >   ----------
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   > Checked by AVG.
> >   > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1473 - Release
> Date:
> >   29/05/2008 7:53 PM
> >   >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   Checked by AVG.
> >   Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1473 - Release Date:
> 29/05/2008 7:53 PM
> >
>

Good observations -- good contribution to BF running form...

Ryan

--- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Dunno, but the problem has gone away. Guess it was the asymmetry of
the two feet landing was throwing it off.
>
> I find that the Pose method works really well I think its a quicker
way to "find" that form that you might be looking for since you can
use some of the drills to train yourself to run "right". Its pretty
much the same as Ken says, he just has some DVD's to watch. Maybe Ken
should make some DVD's/books on barefoot running so people can watch
and learn visually as well ;)
>
> The most important thing is to pull that foot off the ground up
towards your pelvis/butt without delay, you don't ever push or stretch
out in any way. Even sprinting. What you have to visualise is pulling
your back foot up really fast, and then letting gravity release it
back down with no musclar involvment don't let it push back down. You
must not let the foot fall down from the Pose postion before you've
lifted up your other foot. So the landing foot gets pulled up before
you drop your floating one. That's why you just have to think pull the
foot up all the time without delay, that's the only thing you do. So
you only use one muscle, the hamstring of the upper leg, and its your
slight lean forward (gravity) that makes you run bending at the ankle
not the waist. You just think, fire the hamstring over and over that's
it. Also really important is your knees must always be bent so your a
constant S shape, its lilke your sort of sitting all the time like a
big spring. You also must make sure your landing is right below you
never in front at all, if you want to go fast your just increase the
cadence and make the foot come higher up to your bum and you land on
the forefoot but very briefly. Your very slow at pulling the foot so
your loading your shins on landing as your getting an active landing
and landing in front with a straight knee. It'll be hard to do his
style with your thick heel shoe, since you don't need the heel anymore
anyway. Once I mastered pulling the foot off the ground firing the
hamstring nothing hurts anymore since my mass is not directed in front
of my body anymore its all lined up. If I get injured its only because
I deviated out of the form.
>
> Antony
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Justin
>   To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:30 AM
>   Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
barefooting?
>
>
>   Hi Anthony,
>
>   I agree that the order of landing you describe is a valid one, but
>   sometimes it feels like my BOF/1st metatarsal touches the ground
>   first depending on a bunch of different variables (surface, speeds,
>   levelness or ground, etc).
>
>   I don't try to come up with a certain landing order and say, "This is
>   how it must always be!" I actually always play it by ear...or should
>   I say, play it by sole?
>
>   Justin
>
>   --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Guess what I worked out what was giving me the ankle/achillies pain.
>   >
>   > I was not landing properly on the outer pad first on the right
>   foot, so I just replicated the it on the right foot and now its
>   completely gone! And I did some really hard track sessions and I feel
>   like I havn't even trainined nothing hurts at all. I must have been
>   guarding it when I first started running differently.
>   >
>   > I think the most important things are
>   >
>   > (a) Don't land in front of you at all
>   > (b) Lift that back leg up quickly all the time, keep reinforcing
>   the lift the leg at the back and have no active push movement at all
>   > (c) land on the forefoot stuff the heel lol, animals don't have
>   heels
>   >
>   >
>   > And now pain free, time to move onto the VFFs soon ;)
>   >
>   > Antony
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Justin
>   > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 6:14 PM
>   > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
>   barefooting?
>   >
>   >
>   > Lemme clarify, pronating is good, over-pronating is bad. I think
>   a
>   > better term than "over-pronating" might be "pre-pronating"
>   because
>   > the foot lands alread pronated, so there is no spring effect to
>   > absorb the shock. Then the body weight rolls to the inside of the
>   > first metatarsal, when it should roll forward over it. The result
>   is
>   > twisting of the ball of the foot on the ground on "push off."
>   >
>   > How do you correct this when you are not barefoot? I don't think
>   you
>   > can. I think you should run barefoot.
>   >
>   > When you run barefoot, you can correct it by listening to your
>   soles
>   > and discovering when and why the abrasion occurs, and then make
>   > adjustments to eliminate it. When I first started running
>   barefoot,
>   > I tried to eliminate the abrasion by not putting much weight on
>   my
>   > forefeet at all. As it turns out, this was wrong, although it
>   helped
>   > minimize the abrasion. Now that I'm a few years in, I know that
>   the
>   > forefeet carry a great deal of body weight during each step.
>   >
>   > Justin
>   >
>   > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > So if you slightly pronate how do you correct it if your
>   wearing
>   > neutral shoes or barefoot.
>   > >
>   > > Is just landing not too far forward enough to reduce the stress
>   > that is occuring?
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > From: Justin
>   > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>   > > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:37 AM
>   > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
>   > barefooting?
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Whether your gait is narrow or wide, you still should pronate
>   in
>   > > every step. The angle might be slightly different, but there is
>   > > still pronation.
>   > >
>   > > Justin
>   > >
>   > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Antony" <rufus@> wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > Does anyone think that the width of your feet when landing
>   > causes
>   > > you to pronate. I mean if your landing with your feet too close
>   > to
>   > > each other does this cause you to pronate a bit since your
>   ankle
>   > > would be a bit more bent?
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > > From: Barefoot Rick
>   > > > To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>   > > > Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:42 PM
>   > > > Subject: [RunningBarefoot] Re: stories about transitioning to
>   > > barefooting?
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > "Twisting off" would imply pronation or supination, in or
>   out.
>   > > Personally, that was not my problem as I found out when I
>   started
>   > BF
>   > > running. I was fortunate that I did not have to correct a lot
>   of
>   > bad
>   > > form when I started, just mainly over-striding. Hence, most of
>   > > blisters were on my heels! Ha!
>   > > >
>   > > > Regarding trail running, I run trails barefoot that are of
>   the
>   > > limestone, broken rock, tree rooty type here in the midwest.
>   Your
>   > > typical Ozarky type trails. While they do not have the same
>   > > characteristics as desert trails (e.g. goat head stickers,
>   rocks,
>   > > cacti), they have their liabilities as well. We do have some
>   > prickly
>   > > pear and yucca on some of our more arid trails in this area.
>   > Barefoot
>   > > is doable. It's just a matter of speed and distance ... what is
>   > > comfortable to the runner.
>   > > >
>   > > > BR
>   > > >
>   > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
>   > > ---------------------------
>   > > >
>   > > > For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are
>   > > perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of
>   God. -
>   > I
>   > > Corinthians 1:18
>   > > >
>   > > > The Bare Soul
>   > > >
>   > > > About Barefoot Rick
>   > > >
>   > > > Barefoot Rick's BarefootRunner.Org
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nate Polaske"
>   > > <tiggermaxcocoa@> wrote:
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I think Justin is VERY correct in saying that most shod
>   > runners
>   > > have a
>   > > > > "twist" at push-off. I have been noticing this for a while,
>   > > thinking
>   > > > > eventually my soles would be capable of handling this. I
>   > guess
>   > > that's
>   > > > > not the case, huh?
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I'd like to present another question...
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I run most of my miles on pretty rough trails here in
>   Tucson.
>   > > > > Currently, I wear very minimal shoes with trail gaitors to
>   > > protect my
>   > > > > feet and ankles from all the rock and thorns. At this
>   point,
>   > I
>   > > can
>   > > > > not imagine running these trails even with VFFs.
>   Barefooting
>   > > here on
>   > > > > these trails seems impossible. Anyone have any experience
>   > with
>   > > this?
>   > > > >
>   > > > > --Nate
>   > > > >
>   > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Cox"
>   > wisc_galoot@
>   > > > > wrote:
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > I agree with Justin, it sounds like you'r running
>   barefoot
>   > > like you
>   > > > > > run in shoes or VFF's. Even when I run in my lightweight
>   > aqua
>   > > socks,
>   > > > > > I'm sure my running style is different, and I push off
>   more
>   > > and
>   > > > > > probably twist a bit too. This is where I really agree
>   with
>   > > Ken
>   > > > > > Bob--you don't learn to run barefoot by running shod,
>   even
>   > if
>   > > you're
>   > > > > > just wearing Vibram FF's.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > You've only been barefooting a month? It took me over a
>   > year
>   > > to figure
>   > > > > > out how to run properly while barefoot, and I'm still
>   > > learning new
>   > > > > > things with each run. I've been doing this for three
>   years
>   > > now, and
>   > > > > > I'm only now realizing how much I need to bend my knees
>   > when
>   > > running.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > I recommend slowing *way* down, and running at a 10 or 11
>   > > > > > minute-per-mile pace, or even slower. Relax the lower leg
>   > as
>   > > much as
>   > > > > > possible, and your body will eventually lead you to the
>   > > proper way to
>   > > > > > run barefoot. When you get ther, you'll probably have
>   > an "ah
>   > > ha!"
>   > > > > > moment. I certainly did!
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Barefoot Kelly in Madison
>   > > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
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>   > > >
>   > > >
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>   > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release
>   > Date:
>   > > 25/05/2008 6:49 PM
>   > > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > ----------------------------------------------------------
>   > ----------
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > No virus found in this incoming message.
>   > > Checked by AVG.
>   > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release
>   Date:
>   > 25/05/2008 6:49 PM
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ----------------------------------------------------------
>   ----------
>   >
>   >
>   > No virus found in this incoming message.
>   > Checked by AVG.
>   > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.1/1466 - Release Date:
>   25/05/2008 6:49 PM
>   >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG.
>   Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1473 - Release Date:
29/05/2008 7:53 PM
>