--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., chads@m... wrote:
> One question - do all the barefoot runners here successfully land
> ball-heel-ball?  Maybe my form will progress, but when I land ball
> first, my foot is slightly in front of my body and creates a
braking
> action.  However, when I land flat-footed on the ball and heel at
the
> same time, I feel much more efficient and run faster.  Like I said,
> maybe my barefoot form will improve as I do it more.  But even now,
> my heels do not get any more sore than other parts of my feet when
I
> run barefoot, so I don't think I am putting too much stress on my
> heels.

I ran barefoot for ten years on asphalt and other surfaces without
heel problems, and without really thinking about my landing
technique. Then I started running some rocky trails and hitting hard
pointy rocks with my heels. Soon, I was staying off my heels, and
this was still long before I knew about ball/heel/ball.

Essentially, I guess your feet will teach you how to land. And that
may change as you try new surfaces, or new distances, or even
different speeds.

Charley Robbins says that he lands pretty much flat-footed. He has
run barefoot in road races for more than 65 years without any
significant injury.

It is probably more important that the foot land under the body, so
that you aren't braking, than to try to stretch the foot out in an
attempt to land on the ball of the foot. However, you probably won't
reach your full potential until you find your best running technique.
And it may or may not be the same as everyone else uses. Before
Fosbury, there was no Fosbury flop, and no one suspected that high
jumping with your back to the jump could be more efficient. Now that
is the technique everyone else uses in the high jump.

-ken

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., chads@m... wrote:
> If your feet have
> progressed to the point of being able to handle the pounding of
> barefoot running, but your skin can't yet take it, is it better to
> tape your feet to protect the skin and then run barefoot, rather
than
> actually put shoes on?

First of all, I hope you aren't literally "pounding" your feet! One
of the key advantages to running barefoot, wether you do it all the
time or just once in a while, is that it keeps you aware of how you
are landing. I hear all the time from people running with shoes who
can't understand how I can run on rough trail runs, like Shadow of
the Giants 50K, or Lasse Viren 20K trail hear in California, while
their feet hurt from the sharp rocks, even though they are wearing
thickly padded shoes. I believe the key is, that I make each landing
conscious effort to, A) avoid the rocks, and B) land gently. So that
after some trail runs, it isn't unusual for my feet to feel
absoulutely great! It's like my feet had a massage for several hours,
not a beating.

As Chris pointed out, the only way your feet will become conditioned
for running barefoot on any particular surface, is to run barefoot on
that particular surface.

However, there may be times, like the last time I wore shoes while
running (back in 1998), where you want to run on some trails with
your friends, that you may believe your feet aren't ready for. The
unfortunate result was bloody blisters from the shoes. Had I known
then what I know now about paying attention to landing gently, I
think I could have run those trails barefooted. Only you can decide
which is best for you.

As always, wether you run with artificial protection or not, keep it
fun and enjoyable.
-ken

The closest thing you'll find to running barefoot with protection is
to wear wrestling shoes.  They have a flexible sole with little or no
cushioning and will last a long time.  Adding stretch laces will
allow your foot arch to move without restriction.  I only started
running a little over a year ago and I've been running in wrestling
shoes for over six months.  They don't have raised heels or arch
supports to interfere with the proper natural operation of your
foot.  Get a pair of mocassins for casual dress and you'll never need
to wear shoes with a hard sole or raised heels again.  Amazing how
hard it is to find either of these in your average warehouse shoe
store, but you can always order what you need from the Internet.
Learned about the wresting shoes from someone else who prefers to run
barefoot.  He also recommended going out in the cold weather barefoot
(including snow) to build up fat pads on the bottom of your feet for
natural insulation and cushioning.

I've just started to run barefoot.  I live in Boulder, Colorado and
there are lots of dirt running trails, flat or in the mountains, but
unfortunately the trails have lots of sharp gravel everywhere.  I
hope my feet can build up to it.  I know they can, but I'm wondering
how long it will take.  Adapting to the ball-heel-ball is pretty easy
because the gravel hurts your heels.  Concrete is actually easier on
my feet than the trails.

I think the only way to build up your skin is to actually go
barefoot.  The wresting shoes will allow you adapt to the lack of
cushioning and will help change the way you walk or run, though.  You
can't comfortably slam your heel down with them on.

Chris

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., chads@m... wrote:
> Has anyone had any experience running in any type of sock-like
device
> to enable one to run barefoot on rougher surfaces when the skin
isn't
> quite yet ready for it?
>
> I realize this isn't in the the true spirit of "barefoot" running,
> but for someone that hasn't yet worked up to running barefoot all
the
> time, I think it would be better to use durable socks, instead of
> those awful things called shoes.  I have seen sock slippers that
have
> a thin rubber coating on the bottom, and these would probably work
> for this type of use.  I guess they might last for 10 miles or so.
> Also, I have neoprene booties that I use with shoes for mountain
> biking in cold weather.  But, these are too expensive to use since
> they would not last very long.  Is there anything better out there?
>
> On the other hand, what about taping your feet?  If your feet have
> progressed to the point of being able to handle the pounding of
> barefoot running, but your skin can't yet take it, is it better to
> tape your feet to protect the skin and then run barefoot, rather
than
> actually put shoes on?

Has anyone had any experience running in any type of sock-like device
to enable one to run barefoot on rougher surfaces when the skin isn't
quite yet ready for it?

I realize this isn't in the the true spirit of "barefoot" running,
but for someone that hasn't yet worked up to running barefoot all the
time, I think it would be better to use durable socks, instead of
those awful things called shoes.  I have seen sock slippers that have
a thin rubber coating on the bottom, and these would probably work
for this type of use.  I guess they might last for 10 miles or so.
Also, I have neoprene booties that I use with shoes for mountain
biking in cold weather.  But, these are too expensive to use since
they would not last very long.  Is there anything better out there?

On the other hand, what about taping your feet?  If your feet have
progressed to the point of being able to handle the pounding of
barefoot running, but your skin can't yet take it, is it better to
tape your feet to protect the skin and then run barefoot, rather than
actually put shoes on?

Just wanted to introduce myself.  This board is great, let's keep it
going!

I'm 25 years old, ran about 60 miles a week in high school and part
of college, but haven't run much at all in the last 5 years.  I
mountain bike and recently started running again to get in better
shape, as biking is just not intense enough endurance-wise.  I'm
running about 20 miles a week right now and want to get up to at
least 40.

When I used to run competive cross country and track, I would run a
mile or two barefoot on grass after longer runs and workouts.  I had
read it was a good way to strengthen mucles in the feet that don't
normally get used as much when wearing shoes.  I hoped to make my
feet and legs stronger all around.  Looking back I probably didn't
run barefoot enough to make a big difference, but it sure felt good
and relaxed my feet.

Now I have found Ken's informative website and my ultimate goal is
for most of my weekly mileage to be barefoot.  Currently, I run about
5 miles a week barefoot, usually on grass or rubber track. This is
about 20% of my weekly mileage.  I am getting a few blisters and
tender spots, but I will slowly increase the barefoot running as my
skin gets tougher and my feet get stronger.

One question - do all the barefoot runners here successfully land
ball-heel-ball?  Maybe my form will progress, but when I land ball
first, my foot is slightly in front of my body and creates a braking
action.  However, when I land flat-footed on the ball and heel at the
same time, I feel much more efficient and run faster.  Like I said,
maybe my barefoot form will improve as I do it more.  But even now,
my heels do not get any more sore than other parts of my feet when I
run barefoot, so I don't think I am putting too much stress on my
heels.

Thanks!

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the RunningBarefoot
group.

   File        : /2001LAmarathon.mpg
   Uploaded by : Ken@...
   Description : Short TV interview of Ken at LA Marathon

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RunningBarefoot/files/2001LAmarathon.mpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

Ken@...

Dale and everybody
Welcome to the group. I'm happy to see so much activity here after
just over one month of existence. I think it took about a month to
get this much activity on the original Running Barefoot website back
in '97.

Anyway, I've noticed that dogs and other animals feel weird when
forced to wear shoes, and you almost always have to force them,
because they aren't as influenced by the same type of flashy
advertisements that convince humans that we need to cover our natural
feet in order to do something so natural as running. Of course it
could be worse. We could be horses and have metal shoes nailed to our
feet!

Anyway, good to see people talking and sharing their experiences,
because you won't see any of this advertised on TV. OK, I did get
about 5 seconds on local TV at the Los Angeles Marathon in March.
Hardly measures up to the constant shoe comercials on TV.
-ken

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., dale_timm@h... wrote:
I soon discovered that it
> was very painfull and weird to run or jog in my tennis shoes so I
> took them off and happily ran in barefoot.
>
> I guess I'm hooked.
>
> --Dale

Hi Dale,

I used to live in SD. Ken is correct as I have run with him. The
people that told you otherwise have not tried it themselves. How can
they give you an honest answer.

There is nother better than running barefoot and you have approched
this with a keen sense of what your body has told you Not a person. I
respect your ability to weed out the "noise"

I have run 6 mile races. One in the same race as KEN in Huntington
Beach. As Ken says, it pains him to wear shoes as it does me. It
really is more comfortable to run barefoot if you build it up slowly
like training for anything. It does not happen overnight.

It is amazing how brainwashed people are about running and what they
think they need.

The toughest part is not the running, but the perceived reactions and
thoughts people have. This is the gap that we have to thank Ken and
this group for. We are not alone.

Preston in Boston


--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., dale_timm@h... wrote:
> Hi Everyone!
> My name is Dale Timm and I live in Solana Beach, California.  This
is
> the first internet group that I have ever joined so please forgive
me
> if I make a protocol error somewhere--you'll discover that my
> spelling and grammar stink too.  My past running experience is
> limited to a 10k every now and then about 10 years ago.  I didn't
> enjoy running--it was always grueling and painfull.
>
> About a year and a half ago, I started training in a form of Karate
> with my two young sons (9 and 6 yrs old).  I'm 40 yrs old and during
> my teens and 20s I spent some time barefoot during summers surfing
> and hanging around the beach.  But in the past 15-20 yrs, I was
> rarely barefoot so Karate was difficult on my non-callused feet--I
> had blisters often--especially after classes that called for a lot
of
> rotation of the base foot like during kicking drills.  During
> sparring it is important to move on the balls of my feet and my calf
> strength was poor.  Also, switching to Karate from 20 years of
mostly
> upper body weightlifting really pointed out how lousy my
> cardiovascular endurance was.
>
> After thinking about it a while, I decided that running barefoot on
> the sidewalk could address all three of those problems at once.
But,
> I thought that there must be a problem with running barefoot since I
> never saw anyone do it except on the beach.  I didn't want to run on
> the beach since I had heard that running in the sand would reduce
the
> calluses and I wanted to build calluses.  I actually thought about
it
> for quite a while before I tried it.  I asked a couple of Iron Man
> triathalon guys at work what they thought and they strongly
> discouraged it, but not for reasons that I found logical or
> consistent.  They said that hard pavement would ruin my knees but I
> countered that I obviously wouldn't land on my heels.  Instead I
> would be "landing" on the side of my foot and "rolling" toward and
> pushing off of the ball of the foot using the arch for shock
> absorbtion.  He said that my arches would be reduced and I would
make
> myself flat-footed but I thought that I would strengthen my arches
> and I couldn't understand how shoving arch supports in shoes
> could "strengthen" the arch.
>
> So one day I tried it.  I concentrated on how my feet landed and
> pushed off and made sure that my entire body motion was smooth and
> controlled. I only ran 2 miles, but it seemed like it was "working".

> The next day I had a couple of small blisters, the pads on the balls
> of my feet were sore, and my calves were very sore, but generally
> everything was OK and expected.  I didn't want to push it since
> blisters and sore feet and legs would set me back in Karate and ruin
> the whole point of this new conditioning routine.  I ran 2 miles
> every third day for 3 weeks and soon my calf muscles weren't as sore
> and the bottoms of my feet were noticably "toughening up".
>
> One day at lunch I told the triathalete guy about the runs and how
> happy I was with the effects.  He shook his head and said that I was
> in for trouble.  I've been physically active for all my life in
> different activities so I felt like I was in tuned with my body
> enough to "feel" if I was doing something wrong but there was still
> the nagging question: "if this is good, why aren't other people
doing
> it".  That's when I decided to check the internet to see if other
> people are doing it or if not, why?
>
> I typed in "running barefoot" in Google and up popped Ken's site.
> Reading his website was unbelieveable to me since he hit on many of
> the things that I had discovered on my own.  The fact that he is
> more "pro-barefoot running" than ever after 12 marathons and what
> sounds like a whole lot of other running makes me feel like this may
> be ok afterall.  If foot problems are possible, I would expect that
> Ken would have had them at least a marathon or two ago.
>
> Anyway, I apologize for the long message and I look forward to
> exchanging views with the group.  I have been running barefoot for
> over three months now, 3 miles per run, 3 runs a week and I feel
> great.  As a matter of fact, yesterday I was meeting my wife and
sons
> at the Del Mar Fair.  I parked about a mile away and I was a little
> late so I decided to run to the main gate.  I soon discovered that
it
> was very painfull and weird to run or jog in my tennis shoes so I
> took them off and happily ran in barefoot.
>
> I guess I'm hooked.
>
> --Dale

Hi Everyone!
My name is Dale Timm and I live in Solana Beach, California.  This is
the first internet group that I have ever joined so please forgive me
if I make a protocol error somewhere--you'll discover that my
spelling and grammar stink too.  My past running experience is
limited to a 10k every now and then about 10 years ago.  I didn't
enjoy running--it was always grueling and painfull.

About a year and a half ago, I started training in a form of Karate
with my two young sons (9 and 6 yrs old).  I'm 40 yrs old and during
my teens and 20s I spent some time barefoot during summers surfing
and hanging around the beach.  But in the past 15-20 yrs, I was
rarely barefoot so Karate was difficult on my non-callused feet--I
had blisters often--especially after classes that called for a lot of
rotation of the base foot like during kicking drills.  During
sparring it is important to move on the balls of my feet and my calf
strength was poor.  Also, switching to Karate from 20 years of mostly
upper body weightlifting really pointed out how lousy my
cardiovascular endurance was.

After thinking about it a while, I decided that running barefoot on
the sidewalk could address all three of those problems at once.  But,
I thought that there must be a problem with running barefoot since I
never saw anyone do it except on the beach.  I didn't want to run on
the beach since I had heard that running in the sand would reduce the
calluses and I wanted to build calluses.  I actually thought about it
for quite a while before I tried it.  I asked a couple of Iron Man
triathalon guys at work what they thought and they strongly
discouraged it, but not for reasons that I found logical or
consistent.  They said that hard pavement would ruin my knees but I
countered that I obviously wouldn't land on my heels.  Instead I
would be "landing" on the side of my foot and "rolling" toward and
pushing off of the ball of the foot using the arch for shock
absorbtion.  He said that my arches would be reduced and I would make
myself flat-footed but I thought that I would strengthen my arches
and I couldn't understand how shoving arch supports in shoes
could "strengthen" the arch.

So one day I tried it.  I concentrated on how my feet landed and
pushed off and made sure that my entire body motion was smooth and
controlled. I only ran 2 miles, but it seemed like it was "working".
The next day I had a couple of small blisters, the pads on the balls
of my feet were sore, and my calves were very sore, but generally
everything was OK and expected.  I didn't want to push it since
blisters and sore feet and legs would set me back in Karate and ruin
the whole point of this new conditioning routine.  I ran 2 miles
every third day for 3 weeks and soon my calf muscles weren't as sore
and the bottoms of my feet were noticably "toughening up".

One day at lunch I told the triathalete guy about the runs and how
happy I was with the effects.  He shook his head and said that I was
in for trouble.  I've been physically active for all my life in
different activities so I felt like I was in tuned with my body
enough to "feel" if I was doing something wrong but there was still
the nagging question: "if this is good, why aren't other people doing
it".  That's when I decided to check the internet to see if other
people are doing it or if not, why?

I typed in "running barefoot" in Google and up popped Ken's site.
Reading his website was unbelieveable to me since he hit on many of
the things that I had discovered on my own.  The fact that he is
more "pro-barefoot running" than ever after 12 marathons and what
sounds like a whole lot of other running makes me feel like this may
be ok afterall.  If foot problems are possible, I would expect that
Ken would have had them at least a marathon or two ago.

Anyway, I apologize for the long message and I look forward to
exchanging views with the group.  I have been running barefoot for
over three months now, 3 miles per run, 3 runs a week and I feel
great.  As a matter of fact, yesterday I was meeting my wife and sons
at the Del Mar Fair.  I parked about a mile away and I was a little
late so I decided to run to the main gate.  I soon discovered that it
was very painfull and weird to run or jog in my tennis shoes so I
took them off and happily ran in barefoot.

I guess I'm hooked.

--Dale

Re NZ races...
There's a big annual fun run in Auckland.  I've never done it because I've
never lived there.  Some people do tend to dress up for that.  I saw in the
paper the other day the 'Undy 500' in Alexandra, a small town inland from
here.  About 5 people ran around an ice-skating rink in their underwear for
the midwinter solstice.  The running scene here is really pretty
traditional.  We have the usual road and track events and some nice off road
events- check out http://www.otagomountainrunning.vze.com/ to see my fave
local races.

>This is so interesting!  Do you have any unusual races in New Zealand?  We
>have a couple a round the states where people dress up in costumes.


Oliver Thompson <oliver@...>
MSc Electronics student,

Physics Department,
University of Otago,
P.O. Box 56,
Dunedin, New Zealand.
Ph. (03) 479-7808 at work,

This is so interesting!  Do you have any unusual races in New Zealand?  We
have a couple a round the states where people dress up in costumes.


>From: oliver@...
>Reply-To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [RunningBarefoot] Hello
>Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:59:53 +1200 (NZST)
>
>         I'm from the _real_ deep south, Dunedin in New Zealand.  It's a
>couple of hundred km to the bottom of the South Island, then nothing but
>one
>fairly big island (Stewart Island) and a few little ones all the way to
>Antarctica.
>
>
>Oliver Thompson <oliver@...>
>MSc Electronics student,
>
>Physics Department,
>University of Otago,
>P.O. Box 56,
>Dunedin, New Zealand.
>Ph. (03) 4797808 at work,
>     (03) 4738545 at home.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., alking40@h... wrote:
> The main thing I've found with shoes is that after
> the St. George Marathon I had a black toenail which I lost after 2
> weeks.  I even run toe - heel.

I ran barefoot at St. George in 1999. Still my second fastest
marathon (of 12 total). Great downhill course, my legs were stiff
afterwards, but my feet were great. You can ask the dozens of people
who asked to see the bottoms of my feet afterwards!

> I just ran the Rock 'n Roll Marathon, can't believe Ken ran the
whole
> thing barefoot!  Some of it was even on the freeway.

I remember only one spot of rough pavement. That was on one of the
later overpasses uphill. Luckily I was able to avoid most of it by
running on the patched spots and painted center-line. But, it wasn't
any worse than one of the sections I normally run along the beach
bike trail in Huntington Beach, Ca. All in all, it was a good course,
but I like St. George better. Much smoother.

Our big race is
> the Peachtree Road Race on July 4th.  Don't think I'm up to running
> barefoot for 6.2 miles on asphalt in 85 degree weather.  But I will
> give it a try during my neighborhood runs.  But I ALWAYS run
barefoot
> on the beach! :0)

About a third of my milage training for my first marathon was
barefoot on the beach. That was my first and last race with shoes on!
After suffering the last several miles with blisters all over the
sides and tops of my feet and the back of my ankles (all places that
wouldn't even touch the ground while running barefoot) I started
running everywhere barefoot. Even carried my shoes with me the first
few times on asphalt, but never needed them, as my feet always
outlasted my legs.

Still having a hard time convincing people that running barefoot
really is more comfortable than with shoes, even when they see my
injury free feet after a marathon, and even as they hobble away with
blisters and missing or blackened toenails!

In the face of reason, most people will firmly stand by their
prejudices.

-ken

I'm from the _real_ deep south, Dunedin in New Zealand.  It's a
couple of hundred km to the bottom of the South Island, then nothing but one
fairly big island (Stewart Island) and a few little ones all the way to
Antarctica.


Oliver Thompson <oliver@...>
MSc Electronics student,

Physics Department,
University of Otago,
P.O. Box 56,
Dunedin, New Zealand.
Ph. (03) 4797808 at work,
     (03) 4738545 at home.

Hi ya'll.  Am I the first female member?  Am I the first person from
the Deep South (Atlanta, Georgia)? I just found this site and thought
it was interesting.  I've been running for 20 years in Asics.
Closest thing to running barefoot - really.  I've never had any
injuries, pains.  The main thing I've found with shoes is that after
the St. George Marathon I had a black toenail which I lost after 2
weeks.  I even run toe - heel.

I just ran the Rock 'n Roll Marathon, can't believe Ken ran the whole
thing barefoot!  Some of it was even on the freeway.  Our big race is
the Peachtree Road Race on July 4th.  Don't think I'm up to running
barefoot for 6.2 miles on asphalt in 85 degree weather.  But I will
give it a try during my neighborhood runs.  But I ALWAYS run barefoot
on the beach! :0)

Where is everyone else from?

> Paul,
> Pirie had a lot of good things to say about running. But, I don't
agree with everything he said. Especially about walking. First of
all  he wrote that "Walking is landing on the heels with a straight
leg".  And perhaps that is why he was against walking, because he
wasn't doing it right (my opinion). You can also find a lot of
barefoot hikers that disagree with him. They also emphasis landing
ball first, while walking. And I often tell people to practice their
running technique while walking. I believe we should be able to walk
barefoot without jarring the body. This means Ball/Heel/Ball and
letting the knees bend.
> So I think you are on the right track as far as walking, and
reducing intensity. Remember, just because you have to decrease your
intensity today, doesn't mean you won't be able to build back up to it
later as your body becomes conditioned.  However, when people refuse
to decrease intensity despite pain, they often end up being forced to
stop running altogether while they recover from injury.
> Remember, running should be enjoyable and fun!
> -ken


Ken,
    Thanks for your advice.  I went out to a local track (400m oval) to
try out the barefoot walking going ball-heel-ball and using a running
arm action.  I hope the shod, lawn mowing groundskeeper found me
amusing.  The track surface is a smooth asphalt.  Since I was out at
7:00am the surface was cool and pleasant to ambulate on.  I finished
the first lap in just under 2 min.  The walking felt good, as if I
were gliding or floating across the track.  My shins did not protest
so I went for another lap @ 2 min. 30 sec.  I did nine laps on a 2:30
interval keeping all laps at or under 2 min.  My shins were okay with
the fast walking.  I believe I have not stumbled but glided onto a
better way for me to train for now.  I shall name the 400m oval "The
Right Track".
    If I extrapolate, then I could ball-heel-ball barefoot fast walk 5k
on a track in 25 min assuming I do all 400's in 2 min.  Not bad!

Paul

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., "Billy Gard" <billygard@e...> wrote:
> Is there anyone in this fold who rides the motorcycle barefoot? And
> are there any reports as to reactions by the law?

According to the following website;
http://www.urbanlegends.com/legal/driving.barefoot/driving_barefoot.ht
ml
barefoot motorcycle riding is illegal only in Alabama.

I remember discussing this with my father, brothers and sisters back
when I was growing up in Michigan. But, I'm not sure if I ever
actually tried it. If so, it would have been on the trails. Anyway,
our family decided that the only problem might be on the tender top-
side of the foot when trying to shift. But, this would depend on the
the tenderness of the indivdual's foot and the smoothness of the
shifting mechanism of the individual motorcycle.

-ken

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., pbj@e... wrote:
...
> In order to work in some distance without injuring myself, I have
been
> playing around with the Idea of walking fast (ball-heel-ball of
> course) barefoot.  I am aware that Mr. Pirie has a rule about
walking
> and its effect on running, but at present, I can see few other
> alternatives

Paul,
Pirie had a lot of good things to say about running. But, I don't
agree with everything he said. Especially about walking. First of all
he wrote that "Walking is landing on the heels with a straight leg".
And perhaps that is why he was against walking, because he wasn't
doing it right (my opinion). You can also find a lot of barefoot
hikers that disagree with him. They also emphasis landing ball first,
while walking. And I often tell people to practice their running
technique while walking. I believe we should be able to walk barefoot
without jarring the body. This means Ball/Heel/Ball and letting the
knees bend.

So I think you are on the right track as far as walking, and reducing
intensity. Remember, just because you have to decrease your intensity
today, doesn't mean you won't be able to build back up to it later as
your body becomes conditioned.

However, when people refuse to decrease intensity despite pain, they
often end up being forced to stop running altogether while they
recover from injury.

Remember, running should be enjoyable and fun!
-ken

-----Original Message-----
From: pbj@... [mailto:pbj@...]
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:54 PM
To: RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RunningBarefoot] shin stress fractures

I have been easing into running barefoot on a grassy surface.  I run
for 20 to 30 minutes using interval training.  I work on maintaining a
certain quality for each interval (eg. Each lap under 45 sec.) as I
try to decrease the time of rest between each lap.  As I have been
increasing the intensity from workout to workout my shins have been
getting a little tender.  I know I should ease back on the intensity,
and I also know that the proper technique is ball-heel-ball, which I
have been using, but still I fear that my shin discomfort will persist
even if I back off on the intensity.   
In order to work in some distance without injuring myself, I have been
playing around with the Idea of walking fast (ball-heel-ball of
course) barefoot.  I am aware that Mr. Pirie has a rule about walking
and its effect on running, but at present, I can see few other
alternatives.  Does anyone have any suggestions? 

Thanks,
Paul



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I have been easing into running barefoot on a grassy surface.  I run
for 20 to 30 minutes using interval training.  I work on maintaining a
certain quality for each interval (eg. Each lap under 45 sec.) as I
try to decrease the time of rest between each lap.  As I have been
increasing the intensity from workout to workout my shins have been
getting a little tender.  I know I should ease back on the intensity,
and I also know that the proper technique is ball-heel-ball, which I
have been using, but still I fear that my shin discomfort will persist
even if I back off on the intensity.
In order to work in some distance without injuring myself, I have been
playing around with the Idea of walking fast (ball-heel-ball of
course) barefoot.  I am aware that Mr. Pirie has a rule about walking
and its effect on running, but at present, I can see few other
alternatives.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Paul

Is there anyone in this fold who rides the motorcycle barefoot? And
are there any reports as to reactions by the law?

Like most things with the body, there is adjustment to the activity
you do. Also, there is equilibrium, if one doesn't overdo.

Most of my running is on pavement. I will grab some grass with my
feet, when it convenient. Not so much to prevent wear, but, it is
more comfortable and I can actually run faster on grass (as long as
it isn't full of gopher holes).

The skin certainly is worn off by pavement. However, the more my feet
become conditioned, the more they can handle. Just like lifting 500
pounds isn't something a new weightlifter should try the first time,
running 100 miles a week barefoot (or with shoes) is something that
must be worked up to over a long time, possibly years.

When I started running barefoot on pavement, I found that I reached
equilibrium at about 20 miles per week (the skin grew at about the
same rate as it wore off. As my feet become conditioned and as I ran
more, and more regularly, the growth of protective skin seems to be
stimulated more. More importantly, over time, I also learned to run
more efficiently. That means not only with less impact, but also with
less abrasion (setting the foot down on the ground at the same rate
the ground is traveling beneath the foot).

During the past 7 days, I have run more than 60 miles. About 40 miles
of that was on asphalt or concrete.

Running that distance a couple of weeks after completing a marathon,
or two (both on asphalt) has left me pretty tired, but my feet were
not a limiting factor.

It seems that the only time my feet have limited the distance I could
run on asphalt was back when I was first starting to run on asphalt.
Coincidently, it was also the rainy season here in Southern
California, so I thought that running on wet asphalt was wearing my
feet out more. Turns out that is not the case. My feet just weren't
ready that quickly to run that many miles barefoot after years of
being inside shoes. Another reason I mistakenly thought there was
significantly more wear on wet asphalt was because the skin swells
when wet, and the layers of wear were more plainly visible (like the
rings of a tree). This is true, not just after running in rain, but
also when I go swimming. When my feet dry out, the edges of wear
disappear again.

Indeed, I ran my first barefoot street marathon, during a rain storm,
without any problems with my skin or feet. It was fun running through
the huge puddles that were nearly as wide as the street, while shod
runners tried finding their way around the edge of the water, as if
their shoes weren't already soaked from the rain!

-ken


--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., "Billy Gard" <billygard@e...> wrote:
> It has been a concern of mine that Richard Frazine's book The
> Barefoot Hiker actually considers pavement to be actually
detrimental
> to bare feet, that it acts like an eraser and wears down your
plantar
> skin, and if prolonged, would make the skin so thin and tender you
> couldn't walk.

It has been a concern of mine that Richard Frazine's book The
Barefoot Hiker actually considers pavement to be actually detrimental
to bare feet, that it acts like an eraser and wears down your plantar
skin, and if prolonged, would make the skin so thin and tender you
couldn't walk.

Does anyone have any second opinions on this? I know Ken runs on
pavement, and so he should know something about this. I don't know,
however, if he may also run on enough "positive surfaces" to more
than compensate for his pavement time.

Richard didn't specify whether he had in mind the rougher pavement
with a lot of sharp protruding stones, or the smooth, almost black
surface. It seems the latter may be a problem because it has a porous
quality that can "erase" skin, but not the roughness that can toughen
it up. In that case the rougher pavement should be as good for
conditioning as gravel.

He also didn't specify whether concrete is acceptable for building
plantar skin.

I ran barefoot for many years without doing the ball/heel/ball method
of running. It was when I got out onto rocky trails that the pain
cues taught me, after bruising my heels a few times, to land ball of
the foot first.

It does take a while to get the calves built up. And even then, after
a long run, they will get a terrific workout. Another thing I have
noticed which follows along with what you said about the concious
mind not knowing, etc.. is that when I focus on technique, my calves
tighten up. Now that I have practiced the technique for a while, so
that it is "second" nature, (I guess it would be first nature, had we
all grown up running barefoot) I find that if I relax just a little
bit, but still maintain good technique, my calves feel a lot better.

One other point.. It is possible to run correctly with shoes on, just
that most people buy shoes so that they can't feel the immediate
effects of running badly (banging of the heels). Yesterday, I was
runnning warm-up for a 5K trail race with a friend, and the two guys
behind us were commenting that "his heels don't even touch the
ground." At first I wasn't sure if they were talking about me, or my
friend. Turns out it was my friend. It may have a lot to do with the
fact that he is a former sprinter and learned to run better than most
recreational or distance runners. Now, he is a distance runner (he
ran a 50K the previous day), but still he lands correctly on the
balls of his feet.

-ken

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., "Billy Gard" <billygard@e...> wrote:
> I understand that there are specific instructions about landing toe
> fist and stuff. I mainly let my feet work it out by responding to
> pain cues. The toe-heel-toe method is the tip of the iceberg of the
> many subtle adjustments which the conscious mind doesn't even know
> about, let alone keep track of.

I'm glad you made it to the site, Ken.

Since Memorial Day, when I made a crossover into basically going
barefoot, I've been doing my 3 half-hour runs a week barefoot.

There are issues I have to watch out for. Sharp scattered pebbles
(ooch ouch) made footwork hard. Hot pavement made my feet smart for a
day once. And once when rerouting my jog up the steep roads of Queen
Anne hill, my calves got stiff for a couple days, and I was even
limping.

I understand that there are specific instructions about landing toe
fist and stuff. I mainly let my feet work it out by responding to
pain cues. The toe-heel-toe method is the tip of the iceberg of the
many subtle adjustments which the conscious mind doesn't even know
about, let alone keep track of.

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., "Billy Gard" <billygard@e...> wrote:

> I wonder when Ken Saxton will make himself known. His logo on the
> main page shows that he is its author.

I am known.

Good to see so many joiners. I hadn't anticipated this many so soon
after I began the group. There are actually 8 members so far, myself
included. It's great!

As you may have seen on the Running Barefoot home page, I have been
keeping busy doing a bunch of races. One thing I have learned about
running two marathons in two weeks, at least for me, is the second
marathon takes longer, even if it's supposed to be a faster course.
Although others have told me the opposite. But, I started out with
friends in the 4-hour pace group and perhaps lingered too long to
make up the timme. On the other hand, I was still pretty beat by the
end of the marathon, so going out faster may have slowed me down more
in the end.

Who knows? Who cares? I had a good time anyway. No damage to the
feet, despite one section of particulary rough road going up one of
the latter bridges in the Rock 'N' Roll marathon. I tried to run as
much as possible on places that had been patched with smooth
asphalt/tar, and then on the painted line.

After Rock 'N' Roll, one guy hobbled over to me, in his running
shoes, and asked if my feet hurt after running barefoot. I told him
the truth, that they didn't, but, from the way you walk, it sure
looks like yours do. He said I was right and hobbled away in pain.

Maybe he'll figure it out someday..

Oh well, I gotta go do my Saturday morning beach run, since I'm not
racing anywhere today.

See you all later.
-Ken "The Barefoot Runner" Saxton

-ken

> I've heard that Sydney is strong barefoot territory.


It certainly is! Winter has just started but that
doesn't stop me - and many others - from being
barefoot the whole time. Our winters are quite mild
though.

I have to say that reading the posts from the North
Americans on this list that I am constantly surprised
by the negative reactions you get from security
guards, store owners, etc. It just doesn't happen
here... Have you all thought of migrating DownUnder??

Al
Sydney, AUS.

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Ah, we now have three joiners in the group. All from different
countries too. I've heard that Sydney is strong barefoot territory. I
talked with a barefooter there who belongs to http://barefooters.org.
I wonder when Ken Saxton will make himself known. His logo on the
main page shows that he is its author.

greetings from hong kong, billy; not a great place to walk around
barefoot but this is definitely the only way to remember how to run
properly

john

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., "Billy Gard" <billygard@e...> wrote:
> Let me have the priviledge of posting the first message at this
> board. Let more people come on in and show that it is indeed
> all right to go barefoot, and even to run that way.
>
> Especially if there are any barefooters in Seattle, let yourselves
be
> known.
>
> sincerely from the sole,
> Billy

G'day from Sydney!

It's great to have such mailing groups. I love to walk/run barefoot
and I love to see other people doing the same...

Anybody else from Sydney here?

Al

--- In RunningBarefoot@y..., "Billy Gard" <billygard@e...> wrote:
> Let me have the priviledge of posting the first message at this
> board. Let more people come on in and show that it is indeed
> all right to go barefoot, and even to run that way.
>
> Especially if there are any barefooters in Seattle, let yourselves
be

Let me have the priviledge of posting the first message at this
board. Let more people come on in and show that it is indeed
all right to go barefoot, and even to run that way.

Especially if there are any barefooters in Seattle, let yourselves be
known.

sincerely from the sole,
Billy