I'm not going to beat the bullpen dead horse.   However, I have to agree with getting another starter, but not to replace Ramirez.

Here are his last 10 games:

DATE	OPP	W	L	ERA	SV	IP	H	ER	BB	SO
MAY 12	PHI	0	1	3.13	0	6.0	7	2	3	7
MAY 18	@PIT	0	0	3.38	0	1.0	1	1	0	0
MAY 23	MIL	1	0	3.72	0	5.0	5	3	3	3
MAY 29	@CHC	0	1	4.11	0	6.0	9	4	0	3
JUN 04	@HOU	0	0	3.95	0	6.0	3	2	2	4
JUN 09	CHC	0	1	4.02	0	6.0	6	3	1	3
JUN 14	MIL	0	0	3.44	0	8.0	5	0	1	10
JUN 20	@NYM	0	1	3.69	0	6.0	6	4	1	2
JUN 25	@CLE	1	0	3.61	0	6.1	7	2	1	3
JUN 30	CLE	0	0	4.11	0	5.0	8	6	0	3
Totals		2	4	4.39	0	55.1	57	27	12	38

To summarize my points - he has 5 quality starts (how many did the entire starting rotation have last year by this time?- less than that perhaps).  2 other games he has given up 4 runs.  These are all games he kept us in and with our offense we should be fine with that.  Also notice the K/BB ratio is 12/38, less than 1/3 - pretty good.  His earned runs are less than half the number of innings pitched.  His total ERA is just over 4 thanks mostly to the Cleveland debacle.  But again, our offense should be good enough to cover this.  I see alot of consistency with the exception of the Cleveland game and even then he recovered to give us 4 more good innings.  IMO, this kid has a future as a starter - maybe not a superstar or even an all-star, but a solid starter right in the #3 spot where he is.

Now Milton, on the other hand, is a model of inconsistency:

DATE	OPP	W	L	ERA	SV	IP	H	ER	BB	SO
APR 13	@CHC	1	0	2.63	0	6.2	6	2	2	5
APR 18	FLA	0	1	6.50	0	4.1	8	9	3	5
MAY 20	@DET	0	0	7.04	0	5.0	10	5	3	2
MAY 26	ARI	0	1	5.52	0	8.0	3	1	0	9
MAY 31	@CHC	1	0	4.89	0	7.2	6	2	0	1
JUN 06	@STL	1	0	4.14	0	7.0	5	0	0	3
JUN 11	CHC	0	1	4.10	0	7.0	6	3	1	5
JUN 17	CWS	0	0	4.14	0	6.0	7	3	2	2
JUN 22	@NYM	0	1	4.71	0	4.1	9	6	2	3
JUN 27	KC	0	0	5.14	0	5.1	7	6	2	3
Totals		3	4	5.43	0	61.1	67	37	15	38

Note the big games he has given up to Fla, Det, NYM, and KC.  What bothers me most about Milton is his recent two-game slide.  When are we gonna see the likes of his ARI, CHC and STL games like in May/early June?  Can HE stay consistent?  But with his salary, he's not likely to go anywhere, so #4 spot seems appropriate and hope for the better of the two Miltons to show up more often.

Now Mays:

DATE	OPP	W	L	ERA	SV	IP	H	ER	BB	SO
APR 11	@NYY	0	0	12.86	0	2.2	3	4	5	0
APR 17	@CWS	0	1	11.68	0	5.1	11	6	1	5
APR 22	CLE	0	0	10.59	0	4.2	4	4	2	1
APR 28	OAK	0	1	11.07	0	3.1	4	5	5	0
MAY 03	@MIN	0	1	10.27	0	3.1	8	2	0	1
JUN 10	CHC	0	0	0.00	0	1.0	0	0	0	1
JUN 12	MIL	0	0	0.00	0	2.0	0	0	0	1
JUN 16	CWS	0	0	1.29	0	4.0	7	1	0	2
JUN 21	@NYM	0	0	2.08	0	6.0	8	2	2	5
JUL 01	CLE	0	1	5.50	0	5.0	11	8	4	2
Totals		0	4	7.71	0	37.1	56	32	19	18

32 runs in 37.1 innings including his AL games??  19 BB to 18K???  I see 1 quality start and the fiasco tonight against the Indians.  Looks to me from his CHC and MIL games he would be better served in the BP.  This #5 starter is the one I'd like to see replaced with somebody that can provide a LITTLE more consistency.  Right now, when Mays starts, I chalk up a loss and if he wins, I'm pleasantly surprised.

Could Mays, Shack and Standridge provide any BP setup and long reliever consistency and is a reasonably decent #5 or higher out there to trade for?  Those are my pitching questions. 

Sorry so long, but I've been watching and listening to the group and finally wanted to add my 2 cents.  Okay, so I added 25 cents worth - still won't get you a drink of water at GABP!  LOL.

Sam

P.S.  From the stats in this original message - Wagner is best suited where he's at, not with the Big League club.

--- In RedsFest@yahoogroups.com, "nitropr45" <nitropr45@...> wrote:
>
> Lord, we are in trouble. The team must make a deal for a real closer
> and a true set up man. I know that we got people in the minors and
> they should be given the chance given the sorry state of the BP,
> honestly they can't make it worse. We also need another starter,
> Ramirez is also inconsistent. He does not looks to have too much on
> the ball, today he got hammered. Hopefully the moves will start any
> moment as we close the firt half of the season.