Annie and I are going to Headwaters of the Rogue on August 25.  We want
to stop over in Troutdale near Portland on Sunday night the 26.  It is
our Brother-in-law and very good friend's 75th birthday party.  Does
anyone have or know of a place we can leave our horse for the night.
We do have a good portable paddock, so most any arrangement near
Troutdale will be fine.  Thanks for your help.
Don Betts  rideandtiedon@... (360) 681-5218

I rode past a cougar kill two days ago. The cougar had scratched out
the dirt and buried something . My horse did not take notice of it ,
but he did not like the bees hovering it ,that stung his foot as we
went past. I did take caution and started talking loudley and singing
nonsense so if the cougar was close he or she would hopefully leave the
area we were headed. Then I talked loud again on the way back. Weird,
he spooks at other things I never see. I too ride alone a lot. I might
have to get some bells.

Lianne

Great advice from a lot of you~! This is fun to learn from other's experiences.?
I think riding with dogs can really help as well because cougars have been
hunted with dogs for a while, and are probably wary of them. (This has changed
in WA, and I'm not sure for the better).
The thing to remember about predators in our neck of the woods is that we've had
such an anti-predator campaign that we've selected for cougars that natural
avoid people at all costs. There has only been one recorded?human death by
cougar attack?in the history of Washington!



Also, please remember that if you are riding/living in the established range of
a well socialized adult cougar that is not causing problems with people or pets,
don't ask authorities to shoot it! When you take out the good cat, it will only
be replaced by a young unsocialized wandering cat that is much more likely to
cause problems! We have a lot of cougars in Cle Elum and our school kids help
the biologists tree and collar the cats. They have done some really interesting
studies!

Laura





-----Original Message-----

From: S WESTERGARD <goripper@...>

To: Shana Bobbitt <starfroggie@...>; Karen Kohler <karenslife@...>

Cc: PNER@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 9:03 am

Subject: Re: [PNER] Thanks & Cougars




















My experience with cougars has been very different. I saw 4 cougars in one year,
but haven't seen any since. I even had one jump over the top of me while I was
on my horse, which I screamed like a wild banshee, and it stopped, I got my
horse stopped and we had a stare down. Cougars will likely not attack a rider on
a horse....too big in his eyes. When they attack horses, it's most likely a
horse that is by himself, or sick.



In the countryside there are so many rabbits, deer and other meals for them to
feed on. After my encounter with 4 cougars in one year I talked to an expert on
cougars and he basically said they are shy animals, they don't like a lot of
noise (I thank God daily that he gave me a loud voice!!) and they don't normally
pick meals that are quite a bit bigger than themselves.



We ride in an area where there are a LOT of cougars, and I haven't once had my
horse balk or stop. I have, however, had them get a bit tense or 'snort', but
that could be from the bear that we have around here, too.



The cougar expert I talked to said if you do encounter one on the trail, get big
and loud, don't run, face them, wave your arms and, again, make tons of noise. I
think we would all be surprised to know how many times we've encountered these
animals on the trail and haven't even known it. They're out there....some just
stay hidden better than others. Again, NEVER RUN from one....if you do, it then
becomes the cat chasing the string game.



Just remember that when you ride in the countryside or the forests, you have
many other things you could encounter besides cougars: rattlesnakes, bear,
wasps, bald faced hornets to name a few.



Sharon Westergard



----- Original Message -----

From: Karen Kohler<mailto:karenslife@...>

To: Shana Bobbitt<mailto:starfroggie@...>

Cc: PNER@yahoogroups.com<mailto:PNER@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:32 PM

Subject: Re: [PNER] Thanks & Cougars



Speaking from experience, if there is a cougar within the vicinity, your

horse WILL NOT go where it senses a cougar. If you try to force your horse,

you'll most likely get dumbed...being on foot might provide a meal for the

cougar. Cougar's will leave a fresh kill, to help mark it's territory, also

leaving the smell your horse can re-act to.

Personally....it's not worth risking your life or that of your horse to

condition for an upcoming ride. Haul somewhere else to condition or look

forward to the ride next year. This cougar problem isn't something to take

lightly, and you're only kidding yourself if you think you can possibly

"dodge the bullet" (no pun intended), and feel safe and secure enough to

condition in the area. Why cause an incident that could possibly traumatize

you and your horse so bad, you'll never be able to ride it in the wilderness

again?

If you're not experienced with a gun, you could possibly become more

dangerous than the cougar, itself.

Again...speaking from experience...If you do force your horse into a cougar

area, you could get yourself stuck there....because your horse will refuse

to move forward or backward. It'll just stand there and snort!

Just my 2cents worth....

Karen



On 8/1/07, Shana Bobbitt <starfroggie@...<mailto:starfroggie@...>>
wrote:

>

> First I would like to say thank you to everyone who wrote to me in

> response to my question about sidepulls and bitless bridles. I really

> appreciate those of you who took the time to share your knowledge and

> experiences. It was very helpful.

>

> Now I have a new dilemma. Apparently within 3 miles of the farm where

> my horse is boarded, and in the hills where I do all my conditioning

> riding, there have been two cougars spotted in the past week. Sources

> say one of them is really enormous. One has attacked a horse, which

> ended up running into a fence and breaking its neck. They have gotten

> a few sheep as well. I have been advised to not ride out alone, or at

> least take a gun. I don't own a gun and have never been trained to use

> one. My friend says to carry a knife, others tell me a knife won't do

> any good until the cougar is on top of me. I don't want to go to all

> the trouble of getting a gun and having my horse trained to fire one

> from horseback. Are there other options?

>

> I have always enjoyed all the wildlife that I see on my rides out,

> large Elk, deer, birds of prey...this cougar thing is something new.

> The person who would be able and willing to ride with me does not do

> conditioning type rides - he does pleasure rides. He is also currently

> recovering from a cracked rib. I have been trying to prepare for the

> Lakeview Ride LD. I think we are pretty close with only a month to go.

> I just hate to think all my riding from now on will have to be limited

> to the arena.

>

> --

> Shana

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















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Hey everyone,
I have finally recuperated from my Tevis journey--I slept a whole
day and night once home. I just wanted to say a public thank you to
a few folks who helped me recently to achieve my dream of earning a
Tevis buckle.

Of course, thank you to Kara Henry who went thru "Hell and High
Water" to get to Robie Park to crew for Corky and me. She was a
testament to endurance itself in just getting thru the dark cloud of
bad luck following her the week prior.  Crews are only allowed at
two vet checks out of the dozen or so on the trail, so I sure did
appreciate her help at Robinson and Foresthill!  She was even out at
the finish line at 3 AM waiting for us! Thanks for ALL your help and
moral support Kara!

Thank you Sue Walz, who barely knew me and gave me a place anyways
to stay the week prior to Tevis. She even trailered me to Foresthill
(a town/vet check 2/3 way thru Tevis) to make sure Corky and I were
familiar with the trail since we'd be doing it in the dark. Looking
back, nothing could have been more comforting than getting to that
stretch and being able to fly thru it in the dark. That was the most
we were able to move out all day and Corky really had a blast!

Thank you to Gene Nance who gave me last minute moral encouragement
for my Tevis jitters and answered my twenty questions. (I called him
up having some serious jitters.) Thanks for the "Girl, rock and roll
with it!"

Thank you to Nance Worman for your friendship, the miles and miles
we've been on the trail together, and the gift you gave me for my
Tevis completion. And Bruce, (Nance's husband) thanks for the most
meticulous and spectacular shoeing job ever. I really appreciate all
the time you took in getting Corky's feet to their best possible!

Thanks to all of our fantastic NW riders who have taught me to be a
considerate and sportsmanship minded rider. Neither are too  common
on this trail and quite a few people commented on it and thanked me
for doing things I thought were normal everywhere. We have the BEST
region, folks!!!

Quite a few people have asked me what the Tevis is like. I can tell
you what it's not--it's not just another race or ride, it's not
normal and it's not like anything I've ever seen. It's totally
unique and in a different class of it's own. Maybe it's the
unmatched history, or the 750 volunteers (not counting the numerous
towns that come out to help you) or maybe there is something magical
about the area.
Personally, I can't explain it.

One thing is for sure, though. I vow to never, ever, ever mention
any rock or bogs or amount of dust on any NW ride from here on out.
None of our rides can compare to the amount of rock and dust on the
Tevis trail. That is where I found the most endurance to be needed.
That, and the patience required to ride in a single file line for
twenty miles and stopping every 1/2 mile for a wreck. Unless you
start out front, be prepared for a lot of standing on the trail
waiting for riders to get back on. (Corky decided it was a great
time for grazing, why not? Very grateful later for that!) There was
every kind of rock (boulder rocks, slick rocks, boggy rocks, gravel
rocks, those ankle rolling rocks, etc.) strewn for darn near the
entire hundred miles.

Most people say Tevis is like child birth. You never want to do it
again until a year goes by and you forget the pain.

Thanks everyone for your support,
Krista and Corky (black and white paint gelding)

PS:  I was part of the caravan following JR up the canyons as Max
was tailing him. I didn't dare get off (heat stroke anyone?) but Max
hiked right up behind JR leading the way for the horses. It was
quite an example of great phyisical shape on Max's part and it just
kicked ass to see JR marching up the canyons!

For what its worth:  I live in an area with cougars.
They are sighted periodically in our neighborhoods....
crossing roads... out back "of the place", you name
it.  I saw my first and only one, just last year, not
20 feet from my barn as she was on her way to help
herself to the last of my slow chickens.  Cougars have
BIG ranges.  50 miles is the normal range.  They
overlap with other cougars.  Anyway, even if I stuck
to riding around in my backyard arena, I would be
riding in known cougar territory.  I thought about
taking out a gun on rides just in case my horse dumped
me and I had to fend one off, but instead went back to
my old plan: I just ride like I have for 20 years...
during the day and home by dusk.  If I ride at night
(and I sometimes do) I stick to the grass fields and
full moons.  I also ride with dogs and they are pretty
handy at barking and alerting me to local wildlife.
Also, they could be a snack... and while that may not
be "nice",  they would hate me if I left them home!
Most likely they would tree the cat and be big pains
in the patooty trying to call them off and head home.
Anyway, just because a cougar was sighted in your
area, doesn't mean it's still there.  If it makes you
feel better, stay out for a week or two until it
clears out.  But most lilkely, at most of our PNER
rides, you are riding through cougar territory at SOME
point.
Cheers!
Sky

Actually, neither one is true. There is a start time but you can hang back a
while if you do not
want to go out with those who start on time. The start time is the same even if
you give away a few
minutes, ie everyone starts at 5am or 6am, and there is a final finish time. If
you aren't done by
then you are overtime and do not get a completion. Most horses can finish a ride
within the
allotted time, so don't worry too much about a 50 minute hold, but try to get
out of the vet check
without wasting time.  Mary

>------- Original Message -------
>From    : Shana Bobbitt[mailto:starfroggie@...]
>Sent    : 8/2/2007 11:15:11 AM
>To      : PNER@yahoogroups.com
>Cc      :
>Subject : RE: [PNER] starting a ride
>
  >My aunt asked... "Do they time you out....Start one or two people at a
time, or does everyone line up and make a mad dash?" and I realized I
didn't know the answer.

I would guess the latter.

Which brings me to another question. I know there is an out-timer. If
you are a new rider and want to start a little behind your distance
group (say 5, 10 min) can you get your actual start time marked that
way on your card? Or do you have the same start time as everyone else
and have to make up the time if you choose to hold back?

I want to be able to hold back a little at the start since we have
never done this before I don't need to be up with the front runners.
I also don't want to be wasting time since for me I think every minute
will count.

This is specifically in reference to the Lakeview Ride, which the vet
told me has a 50 min hold.

--
Shana

I copied this from another list and thought It deserved to be passed on.  I
think that he could use a little help from his endurance community.  Bill is one
of the riders I was cheering for at Tevis.  He rides a 27 year old gelding. 
Contact Patrick Perkins if you can help out.  .
   kperkins@perkinsmor gans.com

   Patty


   Subject
*SPAM* Re: [AERCMembersForum] Another Tevis injury



Bill is not OK at all; his foot is badly broken from the horse kick he
suffered prior to the start. He rode 30 miles with a broken foot and no
medical assistance. He suffered a cardiac incident, probably atrial
flutter or perhaps ventricular tachycardia and could not ride on. He
now has to leave his place of residence this week as the owner has decided
not to rent any more. He has to move his horse as well this month. His
truck threw a con rod. This is about as bad as it get can get and still
stay alive.

Last year, Bill in some degree sacrificed his Tevis ride helping a rider
who could not fit an Easy Boot and was not prepared. He picked up a
Junior Rider who did not have enough horse to make time. This year, he
was severely injured by another uncontrolled horse at the start. I
lectured him about being selfish here; you can walk your horse out with a
thrown shoe and we all have.

.

I am thinking about starting a charitable foundation to help Bill to his
goal. Bill is slowly dying from bone cancer but a happier person on his
horse I have never met. He is a true joy to ride with and a real hand
with horses. When we rode together a couple of years ago, I picked him up
a few days a week and brought him to the stable.

This year, Bill nearly died in surgery needed to arrest progress of his
disease.

I love Bill as a true friend and companion but I am too far away to help
him as I wish I could. I rebuilt a two horse Miley and spent 100 hours
re-working the brakes, wood, painting, wiring, etc. I did not come close
to breaking even on parts but he finally had the freedom to trailer his
trusty steed Smoke and find some peace riding.

I knew when the race started something bad had happened to Bill. I
cannot tell you how but I knew. Wonderful for the ER to release him at 8
o'clock at night and not even keep him one more day. Got to love our
health system for the poor.
Patrick Perkins






---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and
lay it on us.

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Hey Donna,

My Specialized International is special ordered with a Temperpedic Bufflo skin
seat. different yes, but I no longer experience any pain. I rode my last 50 at
Renegade in this saddle. It is far superior than ANYTHING I have ever used. It
is a Hybrid english almost. I also have knee rolls hidden that can be moved. It
weighs 9lbs. The best part of these saddles is the system of fit in the tree
itself. I have not used a chiropractor since getting this saddle. I had to use a
chiropractor for my horses for two straight years using BM treeless. I love the
way a treeless saddle feels........but this Specialized, that David Kaden made
for me, is what I will attempt THE TEVIS in. I needed something that took the
weight of my left leg bars and brace off my horses. this did it. He and I
plotted styles and design for a while. I have a Jumping backround, so I am
completely uncomfortable with fenders. here is a pic


-----Original Message-----
From: equusilove <equusilove@...>
To: ashlyb798@...
Sent: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:26 pm
Subject: Re: treeless



--- In PNER@yahoogroups.com, ashlyb798@... wrote:
>Hi
   You don't know me my name is Donna.I am a newbie I live in the
Canby, Oregon area.Iv'e helped at a couple of rides.I think it's
awesome that you ride with prosthetic legs.I'm not sure what all the
hoopla is about regarding the treeless saddles but we are all entitled
to our opinions as long as it's not given in a meanspirited way.What
area do you live in if you don't mind me asking?I'm very interested in
the Specialized saddle what is your personal experience?
           For The Horse.........Donna
>
> I don't think at any time was I angry or trying to say anything
negative. I was told not to discourage people about treeless, and to
not call them a waste of time. If you or anyone is "turned off" by my
opinion, then so be it. I think the whole thing is trivial at best. I
have a valid opinion. I want to share my 30 yrs of horse experience.
Granted, I have only just begun endurance..........third season now
riding 50's. But I am hardly unsavvy. I love this sport. I enjoy the
people. I know that I have very good research in this area.I had to
find a saddle that would keep my horses back sound. I have prosthetic
legs, for those of you who do not know. ?All of my saddles have been
speciality made, and extremely expensive. Both of my horses suffered
when I rode with a treeless. I weigh 105 lbs. I really do not believe
that I will ever use one again. This kind of talk amounst all of us is
to learn, right? I don't think it is to shut off?those of us with
different opinions. Again, I will say congrats to those that ride
treeless. I personally won't..... My freeform, to the gal that asked
is for sale for $1,100. It has been ridden in twice. It is gorgeous,
black and has the special order lining under the saddle, which
is?Antimicrobial and red. Dressage style with hidden knee rolls.? It
is comfortable. it does not fit my horses to my satisfaction. I can
send photo. Ride blessed
>
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Catherine Pritchett <kheora@...>
> To: PNER@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 2:37 pm
> Subject: Re: [PNER] treeless
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Perhaps rather than trying so hard to stay away from the internet,
you should spend some time trying to find a positive way to share your
experiences so other can benefit from them. You have some thing to
offer in this discussion but you turned some off by the way in which
you offered it. I really don't think you meant to come across so angry
and negative, but if there is a danger in a words only exchange, it is
that different personalities will read and see some thing very
different from the very same words. When you appear to offer an
opinion with absolute certainty, "treeless saddles are a waste of
time!", you can darn well bet there will be those that have a
different opinion and you can also bet that some of them will be more
than willing to say so.
>
> It is clear that you, like many others, have had saddle fit
problems. I don't think there is an endurance rider that hasn't had
saddle fit problems. You tried treeless like many others and like many
others, it wasn't the panacea that you thought it would be. It was,
however, THE answer for others and their experience is just as valid
as yours and that was the point they were trying to make.
>
> Specialized makes a nice saddle and it has in fact been the answer
for others, including a good friend of mine. The concept is genius and
it does work. It is very similar to the German Trekker saddle which
has been around for some time. The ability to move the weight bearing
panels under the tree/seat to fit the horses back does in fact work
and offers the rider a very stable platform as well. I chose the
Trekker Endurance Dressage because of the moveable panels and because
of the quality of the leather and workmanship, but both saddles are
well worth looking at for those having trouble with either the
treeless or traditional treed saddle. The Trekker does call itself a
"treeless" saddle but in riding and examining it, I consider it closer
to a traditional English saddle with flocked panels than a treeless
saddle. I think that both Specialized and Trekker offer demo saddles
to try out.
>
> I think that I can say with a fair amount of confidence that I can
match you dollar for dollar and frustration for frustration in my
attempt to find the right saddle as I suspect so can many others. I
might add, that I've done very well selling my Bob Marshall saddles on
Ebay, you might consider that. I actually rode one BM for three years
and then sold it on Ebay for what I had paid originally. I suspect
that the Freeform might sell well too as brand name saddles with
almost no use often sell for nearly their new price. I just sold my
Ansur on Ebay, unfortunately, I lost a bit on that one, though I was
expecting that.
>
> Stay cool, ride safe, Cathy
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cathy,



Are you kidding me? really? maybe you didn't get the message from..........and I
won't name names, who literally told me not to "discourage" folks from treeless
saddles. she sent it only to me, now that I look back. I am about as "chill" as
it gets. this is the unfortunate politics that seem to surface whenever someone
has a different opinion. I am chillin in my Specialized for sure



Ash


-----Original Message-----
From: Catherine Pritchett <kheora@...>
To: ashlyb798@...
Sent: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 8:15 pm
Subject: Re: [PNER] treeless





Ash, no one is arguing with you, just asking for the same courtesy that you are
asking for.? No one has suggested that you aren't savvy and don't have MUCH to
contribute, just that you need to find a little less "in your face" way of
expressing yourself so that they can HEAR you.? Really, Ash, chill out!

?

Cathy



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AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My aunt asked... "Do they time you out....Start one or two people at a
time, or does everyone line up and make a mad dash?" and I realized I
didn't know the answer.

I would guess the latter.

Which brings me to another question. I know there is an out-timer. If
you are a new rider and want to start a little behind your distance
group (say 5, 10 min) can you get your actual start time marked that
way on your card? Or do you have the same start time as everyone else
and have to make up the time if you choose to hold back?

I want to be able to hold back a little at the start since we have
never done this before I don't need to be up with the front runners.
I also don't want to be wasting time since for me I think every minute
will count.

This is specifically in reference to the Lakeview Ride, which the vet
told me has a 50 min hold.

--
Shana

Web Mistress extraordinaire, Teri Rashid.....  has updated the link for the ride
information on the PNER web page.

   I'm sorry for the confusion.  This is like juggling cats, (worse the
herding!!)

   You can pre-register by snail mail
   Send to:
   Patty Peck
   1825 douglas ave
   Everett, Wa
   98205


---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have heard of people riding with bells on their horses to scare away the
cougars. Would that work? I know people do that during hunting season too.
--------Karla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, I have to jump in here as I disagree with Karen's statement. Most of us
here in the PNW live in cougar territory. We ride amongst them all the time. I
know I do. I have had a cougar come on my property right with the animals and
kill my livestock.

I have two tags on cougars. Both of them are in my home, a full mount and a rug.
Both of these cougars killed livestock, where I had my stock at. I have been
asked numerous times to speak before news media, ODFW, OHA, and debate PETA and
other animal rights people on the problems with cougars.

After the first kill on my property I was so shook up I started carrying a gun,
Then it occured to me that a knife strapped to my leg would be better protection
should a cat jump me from a tree. I still believe a knife on a calf is better
protection than a pistol. But women riding alone should carry a revolver for the
bigger predator anyway, the two legged predator, man. A nice little .38special
is a handy and light weight gun to strap on. A .357 is too heavy I found out,
and the .38 with hollow points will do the job just as well.

But over the years I have let go of my fear. They are out there, they are
everywhere, don't kid yourself. We have a terrible over population of cougars in
Oregon and Washington and really all of the PNW.

My philosophy is I won't live in fear. If we all are to be chicken little then
we would not get out of bed in the morning. I have files upon files of cougar
attacks so don't think I am at all naive. ODF&W for a long time was sending all
cougar attacks in our area to me. I have read many studies on tracking cougars
that have been done. I have been very involved and have been asked and obliged
to speak at Salem before legislature on the ever growing cougar problems in our
State of Oregon.

I ride in back of my property where plenty of cougars live. I have seen tracks
on the same trails I ride all the time. My horse never balked at traveling down
the same trail that a cougar has also traversed before him, or the bear, or the
bobcat we chased. He also doens't freak out when he sees a rattle snake which he
almost stepped on one time.

When we ride in back country you have to be aware you are not alone. You are in
natures playground.  Cougars like any cat are smart and stealthy. The odds of a
cougar attacking a horse with rider and all that tack is highly unlikely. Not to
say it can't happen, but I don't have any data on this happening. I do have
files on horses being attacked out in the pasture, but nothing of riders on
horseback.

Remember too, a cougar can sprint, but their capacity for  distance is not
there. That is why hounds can tree them quickly. They will tire on the chase
easily and head for a tree for safety.

Cougars are nocturnal. The majority of attacks take place right before dawn.
Yes, there are exceptions but I am telling you what the normal course of action
for a cougar is. They will eat their prey starting with the organs until they
are full. Leave the carcass then come back later to finish dining.

If you are still scared, get a dog to ride with you, take a buddy out, safety in
numbers. I ride alone all the time. I like adventure and go off trail back into
some isolated areas looking always for new trails to blaze. This is in thick
cougar country.  I also have a small whistle that snaps on to my saddle rings.
If I am out in a place pretty hidden in the woods and I hear rustling in the
trees, I will blow that whistle loud and long. It is kewl little whistle, has a
compass, temperature gauge on it. A good item to carry for any reason.

I am a lot more concerned of the pot growers that have invaded our valley lately
than a cougar, that is a fact.
amber
g8nfool




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My experience with cougars has been very different.  I saw 4 cougars in one
year, but haven't seen any since.  I even had one jump over the top of me while
I was on my horse, which I screamed like a wild banshee, and it stopped, I got
my horse stopped and we had a stare down.  Cougars will likely not attack a
rider on a horse....too big in his eyes.  When they attack horses, it's most
likely a horse that is by himself, or sick.

In the countryside there are so many rabbits, deer and other meals for them to
feed on.  After my encounter with 4 cougars in one year I talked to an expert on
cougars and he basically said they are shy animals, they don't like a lot of
noise (I thank God daily that he gave me a loud voice!!) and they don't normally
pick meals that are quite a bit bigger than themselves.

We ride in an area where there are a LOT of cougars, and I haven't once had my
horse balk or stop.  I have, however, had them get a bit tense or 'snort', but
that could be from the bear that we have around here, too.

The cougar expert I talked to said if you do encounter one on the trail, get big
and loud, don't run, face them, wave your arms and, again, make tons of noise. 
I think we would all be surprised to know how many times we've encountered these
animals on the trail and haven't even known it.  They're out there....some just
stay hidden better than others.  Again, NEVER RUN from one....if you do, it then
becomes the cat chasing the string game.

Just remember that when you ride in the countryside or the forests, you have
many other things you could encounter besides cougars:  rattlesnakes, bear,
wasps, bald faced hornets to name a few.

Sharon Westergard






   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Karen Kohler<mailto:karenslife@...>
   To: Shana Bobbitt<mailto:starfroggie@...>
   Cc: PNER@yahoogroups.com<mailto:PNER@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:32 PM
   Subject: Re: [PNER] Thanks & Cougars


   Speaking from experience, if there is a cougar within the vicinity, your
   horse WILL NOT go where it senses a cougar. If you try to force your horse,
   you'll most likely get dumbed...being on foot might provide a meal for the
   cougar. Cougar's will leave a fresh kill, to help mark it's territory, also
   leaving the smell your horse can re-act to.
   Personally....it's not worth risking your life or that of your horse to
   condition for an upcoming ride. Haul somewhere else to condition or look
   forward to the ride next year. This cougar problem isn't something to take
   lightly, and you're only kidding yourself if you think you can possibly
   "dodge the bullet" (no pun intended), and feel safe and secure enough to
   condition in the area. Why cause an incident that could possibly traumatize
   you and your horse so bad, you'll never be able to ride it in the wilderness
   again?
   If you're not experienced with a gun, you could possibly become more
   dangerous than the cougar, itself.
   Again...speaking from experience...If you do force your horse into a cougar
   area, you could get yourself stuck there....because your horse will refuse
   to move forward or backward. It'll just stand there and snort!
   Just my 2cents worth....
   Karen

   On 8/1/07, Shana Bobbitt <starfroggie@...<mailto:starfroggie@...>>
wrote:
   >
   > First I would like to say thank you to everyone who wrote to me in
   > response to my question about sidepulls and bitless bridles. I really
   > appreciate those of you who took the time to share your knowledge and
   > experiences. It was very helpful.
   >
   > Now I have a new dilemma. Apparently within 3 miles of the farm where
   > my horse is boarded, and in the hills where I do all my conditioning
   > riding, there have been two cougars spotted in the past week. Sources
   > say one of them is really enormous. One has attacked a horse, which
   > ended up running into a fence and breaking its neck. They have gotten
   > a few sheep as well. I have been advised to not ride out alone, or at
   > least take a gun. I don't own a gun and have never been trained to use
   > one. My friend says to carry a knife, others tell me a knife won't do
   > any good until the cougar is on top of me. I don't want to go to all
   > the trouble of getting a gun and having my horse trained to fire one
   > from horseback. Are there other options?
   >
   > I have always enjoyed all the wildlife that I see on my rides out,
   > large Elk, deer, birds of prey...this cougar thing is something new.
   > The person who would be able and willing to ride with me does not do
   > conditioning type rides - he does pleasure rides. He is also currently
   > recovering from a cracked rib. I have been trying to prepare for the
   > Lakeview Ride LD. I think we are pretty close with only a month to go.
   > I just hate to think all my riding from now on will have to be limited
   > to the arena.
   >
   > --
   > Shana
   >
   >

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

this ride is happening, in Merritt, please be advised,


----- Original Message ----
From: "PNER@yahoogroups.com" <PNER@yahoogroups.com>
To: PNER@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 11:59:33 PM
Subject: [PNER] Ride Over the Rainbow, 8/4/2007, 12:00 am


Reminder from: PNER Yahoo! Group

Title: Ride Over the Rainbow

Date: Saturday August 4, 2007
Time: All Day
Location: Maple Ridge, BC

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For those of you that are interested in viewing the photos Steve
Bradley took at Pink Flamingo this past weekend they are all on line now.
The web site is www.stevebradleyphotography.com

I don't think at any time was I angry or trying to say anything negative. I was
told not to discourage people about treeless, and to not call them a waste of
time. If you or anyone is "turned off" by my opinion, then so be it. I think the
whole thing is trivial at best. I have a valid opinion. I want to share my 30
yrs of horse experience. Granted, I have only just begun
endurance..........third season now riding 50's. But I am hardly unsavvy. I love
this sport. I enjoy the people. I know that I have very good research in this
area.I had to find a saddle that would keep my horses back sound. I have
prosthetic legs, for those of you who do not know. ?All of my saddles have been
speciality made, and extremely expensive. Both of my horses suffered when I rode
with a treeless. I weigh 105 lbs. I really do not believe that I will ever use
one again. This kind of talk amounst all of us is to learn, right? I don't think
it is to shut off?those of us with different opinions. Again, I will say
congrats to those that ride treeless. I personally won't..... My freeform, to
the gal that asked is for sale for $1,100. It has been ridden in twice. It is
gorgeous, black and has the special order lining under the saddle, which
is?Antimicrobial and red. Dressage style with hidden knee rolls.? It is
comfortable. it does not fit my horses to my satisfaction. I can send photo.
Ride blessed

Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Catherine Pritchett <kheora@...>
To: PNER@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [PNER] treeless






Perhaps rather than trying so hard to stay away from the internet, you should
spend some time trying to find a positive way to share your experiences so other
can benefit from them. You have some thing to offer in this discussion but you
turned some off by the way in which you offered it. I really don't think you
meant to come across so angry and negative, but if there is a danger in a words
only exchange, it is that different personalities will read and see some thing
very different from the very same words. When you appear to offer an opinion
with absolute certainty, "treeless saddles are a waste of time!", you can darn
well bet there will be those that have a different opinion and you can also bet
that some of them will be more than willing to say so.

It is clear that you, like many others, have had saddle fit problems. I don't
think there is an endurance rider that hasn't had saddle fit problems. You tried
treeless like many others and like many others, it wasn't the panacea that you
thought it would be. It was, however, THE answer for others and their experience
is just as valid as yours and that was the point they were trying to make.

Specialized makes a nice saddle and it has in fact been the answer for others,
including a good friend of mine. The concept is genius and it does work. It is
very similar to the German Trekker saddle which has been around for some time.
The ability to move the weight bearing panels under the tree/seat to fit the
horses back does in fact work and offers the rider a very stable platform as
well. I chose the Trekker Endurance Dressage because of the moveable panels and
because of the quality of the leather and workmanship, but both saddles are well
worth looking at for those having trouble with either the treeless or
traditional treed saddle. The Trekker does call itself a "treeless" saddle but
in riding and examining it, I consider it closer to a traditional English saddle
with flocked panels than a treeless saddle. I think that both Specialized and
Trekker offer demo saddles to try out.

I think that I can say with a fair amount of confidence that I can match you
dollar for dollar and frustration for frustration in my attempt to find the
right saddle as I suspect so can many others. I might add, that I've done very
well selling my Bob Marshall saddles on Ebay, you might consider that. I
actually rode one BM for three years and then sold it on Ebay for what I had
paid originally. I suspect that the Freeform might sell well too as brand name
saddles with almost no use often sell for nearly their new price. I just sold my
Ansur on Ebay, unfortunately, I lost a bit on that one, though I was expecting
that.

Stay cool, ride safe, Cathy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Speaking from experience, if there is a cougar within the vicinity, your
horse WILL NOT go where it senses a cougar. If you try to force your horse,
you'll most likely get dumbed...being on foot might provide a meal for the
cougar.  Cougar's will leave a fresh kill, to help mark it's territory, also
leaving the smell your horse can re-act to.
Personally....it's not worth risking your life or that of your horse to
condition for an upcoming ride.  Haul somewhere else to condition or look
forward to the ride next year.  This cougar problem isn't something to take
lightly, and you're only kidding yourself if you think you can possibly
"dodge the bullet" (no pun intended), and feel safe and secure enough to
condition in the area.  Why cause an incident that could possibly traumatize
you and your horse so bad, you'll never be able to ride it in the wilderness
again?
If you're not experienced with a gun, you could possibly become more
dangerous than the cougar, itself.
Again...speaking from experience...If you do force your horse into a cougar
area, you could get yourself stuck there....because your horse will refuse
to move forward or backward.  It'll just stand there and snort!
Just my 2cents worth....
Karen


On 8/1/07, Shana Bobbitt <starfroggie@...> wrote:
>
>   First I would like to say thank you to everyone who wrote to me in
> response to my question about sidepulls and bitless bridles. I really
> appreciate those of you who took the time to share your knowledge and
> experiences. It was very helpful.
>
> Now I have a new dilemma. Apparently within 3 miles of the farm where
> my horse is boarded, and in the hills where I do all my conditioning
> riding, there have been two cougars spotted in the past week. Sources
> say one of them is really enormous. One has attacked a horse, which
> ended up running into a fence and breaking its neck. They have gotten
> a few sheep as well. I have been advised to not ride out alone, or at
> least take a gun. I don't own a gun and have never been trained to use
> one. My friend says to carry a knife, others tell me a knife won't do
> any good until the cougar is on top of me. I don't want to go to all
> the trouble of getting a gun and having my horse trained to fire one
> from horseback. Are there other options?
>
> I have always enjoyed all the wildlife that I see on my rides out,
> large Elk, deer, birds of prey...this cougar thing is something new.
> The person who would be able and willing to ride with me does not do
> conditioning type rides - he does pleasure rides. He is also currently
> recovering from a cracked rib. I have been trying to prepare for the
> Lakeview Ride LD. I think we are pretty close with only a month to go.
> I just hate to think all my riding from now on will have to be limited
> to the arena.
>
> --
> Shana
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello all!
I, too, have been through the rigger of saddle shopping. After treeless, wintec,
panels, dressage, tucker, I finally discovered the specialized saddle, like many
of you have! I'll never try another saddle! I even prefer it to my dressage
saddle when in the arena, because it suits me so well. I also enjoy ponying
young horses in them. Very secure saddles!
Check the out at: http://lostjuniperranch.com/

Laura







-----Original Message-----
From: Catherine Pritchett <kheora@...>
To: PNER@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [PNER] treeless

























Perhaps rather than trying so hard to stay away from the internet, you should
spend some time trying to find a positive way to share your experiences so other
can benefit from them.  You have some thing to offer in this discussion but you
turned some off by the way in which you offered it.  I really don't think you
meant to come across so angry and negative, but if there is a danger in a words
only exchange, it is that different personalities will read and see some thing
very different from the very same words.  When you appear to offer an opinion
with absolute certainty, "treeless saddles are a waste of time!", you can darn
well bet there will be those that have a different opinion and you can also bet
that some of them will be more than willing to say so.



It is clear that you, like many others, have had saddle fit problems.  I don't
think there is an endurance rider that hasn't had saddle fit problems.  You
tried treeless like many others and like many others, it wasn't the panacea that
you thought it would be.  It was, however, THE answer for others and their
experience is just as valid as yours and that was the point they were trying to
make.



Specialized makes a nice saddle and it has in fact been the answer for others,
including a good friend of mine.  The concept is genius and it does work.  It is
very similar to the German Trekker saddle which has been around for some time. 
The ability to move the weight bearing panels under the tree/seat to fit the
horses back does in fact work and offers the rider a very stable platform as
well.  I chose the Trekker Endurance Dressage because of the moveable panels and
because of the quality of the leather and workmanship, but both saddles are well
worth looking at for those having trouble with either the treeless or
traditional treed saddle.  The Trekker does call itself a "treeless" saddle but
in riding and examining it, I consider it closer to a traditional English saddle
with flocked panels than a treeless saddle.  I think that both Specialized and
Trekker offer demo saddles to try out.



I think that I can say with a fair amount of confidence that I can match you
dollar for dollar and frustration for frustration in my attempt to find the
right saddle as I suspect so can many others.  I might add, that I've done very
well selling my Bob Marshall saddles on Ebay, you might consider that.  I
actually rode one BM for three years and then sold it on Ebay for what I had
paid originally.  I suspect that the Freeform might sell well too as brand name
saddles with almost no use often sell for nearly their new price.  I just sold
my Ansur on Ebay, unfortunately, I lost a bit on that one, though I was
expecting that.



Stay cool, ride safe,  Cathy



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

First I would like to say thank you to everyone who wrote to me in
response to my question about sidepulls and bitless bridles. I really
appreciate those of you who took the time to share your knowledge and
experiences. It was very helpful.

Now I have a new dilemma. Apparently within 3 miles of the farm where
my horse is boarded, and in the hills where I do all my conditioning
riding, there have been two cougars spotted in the past week. Sources
say one of them is really enormous. One has attacked a horse, which
ended up running into a fence and breaking its neck. They have gotten
a few sheep as well. I have been advised to not ride out alone, or at
least take a gun. I don't own a gun and have never been trained to use
one. My friend says to carry a knife, others tell me a knife won't do
any good until the cougar is on top of me. I don't want to go to all
the trouble of getting a gun and having my horse trained to fire one
from horseback. Are there other options?

I have always enjoyed all the wildlife that I see on my rides out,
large Elk, deer, birds of prey...this cougar thing is something new.
The person who would be able and willing to ride with me does not do
conditioning type rides - he does pleasure rides. He is also currently
recovering from a cracked rib. I have been trying to prepare for the
Lakeview Ride LD. I think we are pretty close with only a month to go.
I just hate to think all my riding from now on will have to be limited
to the arena.

--
Shana

Liz and I wanted to thank everyone who donated items and organized the
Raffle for Roxie at the Pink Flamingo Classic last weekend.
It reinforces my belief that the Endurance community is the best we
have ever been involved with. Roxie is very fortunate to have such
great friends and supporters.

Susan Favro - Healthy as a Horse Network
Teddy Lancaster - Running Bear
Southwest Idaho Trail & Distance Riders (Old Selam Endurance Ride)
Sally Tarbet & Linda Walberg (Pink Flamingo Classic)
Pam Haynes & Dot Wiggins (Weiser River Rail Trail)
Jim Flynn's Saddle Shop

A special thanks to Beth Bivens, Niles and Raab for organizing the
event.
Our sincere appreciation to Sally Tarbet and Linda Walberg for
allowing the space at their Ride, and to everyone who bought raffle
tickets in support of Roxie. Your generosity raised $740 toward her
medical bills.

Neil & Liz & Tia (& Roxie too!)

Come on over to Idaho for the 2007 AERC National Championship!
August 23 is the 55 Mile Championship. August 25 is the 100 Mile
Championship.

One more week to get pre-registrations in!   August 8 is the deadline
(but call if you have problems or questions).

This is a real Endurance Ride! - you'll see a lot of country and some
spectacular scenery with a 55 mile loop into the mountains, and a 45
mile evening loop into the desert - 100 miles of trail -  with only a
few miles of repeat.

We're planning a grand gala event with dinners and parties and a
Country Music band Thursday evening.

Two clinics will be offered on Friday:
-Balanced shoeing and trimming with Kirk Adkins (Equithotics -
Sneakers), Olin Balch DVM, PhD in Equine Biomechanics and Locomotion.
-A mini APEX Endurance clinic with John Crandell III, Stag Newman and
Troy Ball.

We're waiving all fees for Juniors!

Lots of goodies for riders and volunteers - we have many sponsor
donations and some special treats.

Plus we'll have a big trade show with vendors set up and plenty of
shopping.

We welcome all - riders, helpers, hanger outers - just come and help
us celebrate Endurance Riding - American Style (it's the best).

For information and registration: http://www.endurance.net/aercnc/

Steph Teeter

A Huge Thanks to our Sponsors:

Gold Plus: Arabian Horse Association

Gold: Arabian Saddle Company, SSG Gloves, Leather Therapy, Gulf Coast
4* Trailer Sales, Endurance.Net

Silver:  LMF Feeds, Cool Medics, Specialized Saddles, Troxel,
Kerrits,  Skito, Action Rider Tack, Running Bear

Bronze:  Healthy As A Horse Network, Toklat, Myler, Vettec, Oak Knoll
Horses (*KS Rubin), D'arcy Demianoff-Thompson's *Cejlon, Omega
Fields, Thinline Saddle Pads, Lost Juniper Ranch, Equithotics, Ariat,
Equipedic Pads, Arbee Ice Boots

Perhaps rather than trying so hard to stay away from the internet, you should
spend some time trying to find a positive way to share your experiences so other
can benefit from them.  You have some thing to offer in this discussion but you
turned some off by the way in which you offered it.  I really don't think you
meant to come across so angry and negative, but if there is a danger in a words
only exchange, it is that different personalities will read and see some thing
very different from the very same words.  When you appear to offer an opinion
with absolute certainty, "treeless saddles are a waste of time!", you can darn
well bet there will be those that have a different opinion and you can also bet
that some of them will be more than willing to say so.

It is clear that you, like many others, have had saddle fit problems.  I don't
think there is an endurance rider that hasn't had saddle fit problems.  You
tried treeless like many others and like many others, it wasn't the panacea that
you thought it would be.  It was, however, THE answer for others and their
experience is just as valid as yours and that was the point they were trying to
make.

Specialized makes a nice saddle and it has in fact been the answer for others,
including a good friend of mine.  The concept is genius and it does work.  It is
very similar to the German Trekker saddle which has been around for some time. 
The ability to move the weight bearing panels under the tree/seat to fit the
horses back does in fact work and offers the rider a very stable platform as
well.  I chose the Trekker Endurance Dressage because of the moveable panels and
because of the quality of the leather and workmanship, but both saddles are well
worth looking at for those having trouble with either the treeless or
traditional treed saddle.  The Trekker does call itself a "treeless" saddle but
in riding and examining it, I consider it closer to a traditional English saddle
with flocked panels than a treeless saddle.  I think that both Specialized and
Trekker offer demo saddles to try out.

I think that I can say with a fair amount of confidence that I can match you
dollar for dollar and frustration for frustration in my attempt to find the
right saddle as I suspect so can many others.  I might add, that I've done very
well selling my Bob Marshall saddles on Ebay, you might consider that.  I
actually rode one BM for three years and then sold it on Ebay for what I had
paid originally.  I suspect that the Freeform might sell well too as brand name
saddles with almost no use often sell for nearly their new price.  I just sold
my Ansur on Ebay, unfortunately, I lost a bit on that one, though I was
expecting that.

Stay cool, ride safe,  Cathy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No need to stay away from the PNER list Ashley...as long as sticks and stones,
flaming arrows and names aren't being thrown around, we tolerate pretty much
anything in the right tone.
   That being said, I did one 50 in a BM saddle years ago, and was such a poor
rider at the time that I absolutely blistered my FeatherB's lower back in it. I
handed it back to it's owner, said thanks for the experience and have stuck w/my
OF Patriot ever since. I tried a Specialized (international), LOVED how it sat
me on the horse (oh so extremely correct!) but ended up with white patches on
both sides of Diesel's back after a few months, so retired it immediately and
went back, AGAIN to my OF Patriot, vowing that if I need to "ride lighter" I'll
lose a few pounds rather than buy a lighter saddle.  ;-)
   Again, that said, I know of several very good riders who are riding successful
miles in treeless saddles, but I won't be one of them.  >BG<

   Thanks for sharing your experiences...diversity is what makes the world go
'round.

   Darlene

ashlyb798@... wrote:
           Obviously there are many of you out there who have found greatness
with the treeless. I have 2 Bob Marshalls and a freeform(brand new) that I would
love to sell to one of you. As previously stated, I have many treeless saddle
that I cannot use. Do any of you want to buy them??? this is the thousands
($10,000)that I spent on having all these saddles hand made for me. Again, I
will say I love the International Specialized. This saddle saved my horse. I
think I am allowed to have this opinion. As a matter of fact I know I am. This
is the reason why I try so hard to stay away from the internet, and people who
have forgotten their manners. I will always encourage everyone to ride, with
wisom and blessings at every angle. I will never be so rude as to tell someone
what to say. Anyone want to buy a treeless? Let me know

Ash
__________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Obviously there are many of you out there who have found greatness with the
treeless. I have 2 Bob Marshalls and a freeform(brand new) that I would love to
sell to one of you. As previously stated, I have many treeless saddle that I
cannot use. Do any of you want to buy them??? this is the thousands
($10,000)that I spent on having all these saddles hand made for me. Again, I
will say I love the International Specialized. This saddle saved my horse. I
think I am allowed to have this opinion. As a matter of fact I know I am. This
is the reason why I try so hard to stay away from the internet, and people who
have forgotten their manners. I will always encourage everyone to ride, with
wisom and blessings at every angle. I will never be so rude as to tell someone
what to say. Anyone want to buy a treeless? Let me know

Ash
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL
at AOL.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And a bunch of friends and/or relatives you can drag in to help(:>)


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Lynn White
   To: PNER@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 10:33 AM
   Subject: [PNER] Sandpoint ride


   Sorry to read that this ride got cancelled.

   Someone asked what it takes to put on a ride.

   Just four things I can think of:

   About $3000 of up-front capital, tenacity, a thick hide, and lots of
   luck.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Everyone:  If anyone needs a ride or would like to caravan from the
Seattle/East King County area to Santiam, please contact me
privately.  I have room in my trailer for another horse and rider and
would love the company!  Thanks, Amanda

Sorry to read that this ride got cancelled.

Someone asked what it takes to put on a ride.

Just four things I can think of:

About $3000 of up-front capital, tenacity, a thick hide, and lots of
luck.

Question for the vets, retired vets and experienced breeders on the
list!  :-)  I have an older CMK mare (22) who has been pronounced in
foal (YAY!!!) to the lovely CMK stallion BA Storm Dancer.  She
hasn't had a foal for 14 years but has great uterine tone, looks
much younger than 22, and is very healthy.  She was put on Regumate
a few days after breeding and ovulation just as a precaution.  At
the 17 day ultrasound and blood draw her natural progesterone levels
were low (2.6 when they should be 5 or more, they told me) so she is
still on Regumate.  My question is, how long should she stay on
Regumate?  I understand she should stay on it *at least* 100 days.
However, should I take her off it at that time, or keep her on it
til 150 days to make sure the uterus has picked up production,
or...??  The vet said if it was her mare, she would wean her off it
at 100 days, but she wasn't going to tell me to do that in case
things went wrong, and she knows people who keep their mare on it
the entire pregnancy (ouch, my pocketbook).  I'm just looking for
further opinions and experience.  Thanks!!

Karen Bratcher
Athol, Idaho
karenbrat1 "at" wildblue "dot" net if you would like to reply off
list

Ride management was amazing at this ride, and I also wanted to comment on
the vetting---it was fast, but really thorough. Thanks so much to the
Flamingo team. It is such a huge job to put on a ride, and the fact that you
did all this in an area you didn't know and did it in two months is amazing
to me. You put on a first-class ride.



Sandy

   _____

From: PNER@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PNER@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Broken
Diamond Ranch
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:08 PM
To: Lois Fox; PNER@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PNER] Pink Flamingo



Lois,

We had salsa for the taco salad but it was gobbled up 2/3's the way thru the
chow line (I didn't know they pulled the BBQ sauce out of the 'kitchen'...it
was for Sunday night's dinner). I am surprised you even got dinner if you
weren't the first 100 thru the line. Next year might be pre-registration
only...so we know how much food to bring. Yikes! There were about 70 folks
more than expected. LOL

We are glad you enjoyed yourselves. If we can keep our ride camp, we'll be
able to improve our trails and keep you out of the sun more. We only had
this June and July to find 100 miles of TOTALLY new trails in an area that I
have never ridden in before. We should be able to find all kinds of little
short cuts and zig-zags for folks to enjoy next year.

I also wanted to thank everyone for the wonderful job you did on cleaning up
your camp area. The meadow looked totally awesome when we left. We spent
some time with the drag to break up any left over manure and hay and fluffed
the grass....Mr. Kennedy hopefully won't have an issue with the condition of
the meadow.

If you'd like to send the Kennedy family a personal thank you for letting us
enjoy his meadow and ride on his land, please drop him a note at:

Joseph Kennedy
11004 Highway 55
Cascade, ID 83611

Thanks for coming,

Sally

PS I'll get Linda right on that 100 yards of rock. She's pretty handy with a
rake!

----- Original Message -----
From: Lois Fox
To: Skyla Stewart ; PNER@yahoogroups. <mailto:PNER%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [PNER] Pink Flamingo

I'd like to second Skyla's comments. Pink Flamingo is
one of the most scenic (totally beautiful) rides I've
ever attended. Lots of climb, but the views made it
worth the climb. Ride management, volunteers, and
especially the vets were always helpful and
encouraging. The ride camp had a creek running
through it. On the second day there was about a 100
yard stretch of ROCK. I'm sure the managers will go
rake it off for next year. The Big Ass Rock doesn't
count. It made the long drive one I'm looking forward
to doing again next year! Thanks, Sally and Linda.

ps: One small suggestion for next year. Could you
please use salsa of some kind on the taco salad, as
opposed to bar-be-que sauce? Tasted kind of strange.

--- Skyla Stewart <temposmom@yahoo. <mailto:temposmom%40yahoo.com> com>
wrote:

> I don't know HOW any ride could be run better or be
> any nicer then the
> Pink Flamingo! Even with the rather large number of
> riders, not normal
> to the Idaho area. OMGADS, I think they even cleaned
> off any rock there
> could have been out there! Not only water sets
> EVERYWHERE you
> needed/wanted them, even sponge buckets with
> sponges! The entire ride
> had grass along the trail. A hose at the vet area to
> cool/clean your
> ponies off with. Aside from the smoke and the
> abnormal heat/humidity
> combo for the area, it was beautiful! The entire
> community of Flamingos
> went so far and above, there isn't enough "thank
> you's" to say. I
> personally did miss not having the Moose in the
> water this year. I
> think the helicopters may have been just too much,
> otherwise who
> knows. :o) The ride camp is beautiful and this ride
> is worth bagging
> poop for! A MUST do for next year!
>
> Skyla and Tempo-now 3 rides from his 3000
>
>

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