Cowlitz County is located in southwest Washington State and has
approximately 100,000 inhabitants.



There were approximately 30,000 hunting licenses sold in this county in
2006.



The county has no public shooting range. There is a project that
proposes to build such a range on county land.



This county land was formerly a site for river dredging disposal from
the Mount St. Helens volcano explosion debris and is not suitable for
industrial development or private housing.



$100,000 in grant money is assured from the State of Washington
Interagency  Committee for Outdoor Recreation provided that:



1. The County Commissioners approve of the proposed site, located on
county land.



And



2. $100,000 in matching funds is secured from public donations.



The facility will provide ranges for Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun and Archery.



To meet funding regulations, local matching funds of $100,000 must be
pledged by 23 Aug 2007.



Cowlitz Game and Anglers is a 501-3c Non-Profit Corporation. All
donations are tax deductible.

Cowlitz Game and Anglers:  State UBI 601744554  Federal Tax Ref: #
91-0611291



The purpose of this email is to solicit pledges from hunters, shooters
and other interested persons, regardless of current location, who wish
to advance the building of such ranges, promote safe shooting practices,
and instill the concept of developing shooting skills.



Pledges will influence the County Commissioners when they make the
decision to approve or deny

the application for the shooting range.



These pledges will only be called if the decision is for approval and
after the State grant monies are secured.



These pledges should be mailed to:


Cowlitz Game & Anglers
PO Box 1061

Longview Washington 98632

(Questions: 360 274-7559, 360 274-8702, 360-749-7071)



Overnight mail would be appreciated.



Cowlitz  County needs a public shooting range. There is one private
shooting range.

This range is relatively expensive to join, has a fixed total
membership,  and has a

2-3 year waiting period after application.



This email is being sent to parties who may be interested in shooting,
either firearms or archery

throughout the country.



If all recipients would forward it to everyone on their mailing lists it
would

certainly advance the prospect of our county obtaining the public
shooting range.



Haste is in order and the County Commissioners meet on the 23rd of
August.



Pledges of $ 5.00, $10.00, $ 20.00 or more(certainly) would be welcomed.



Once again, overnight mail would be appreciated.


Robert L Wheeler


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yu also have to be careful if water was spayed on the
hot metal of the gun, this can make it brittle and
unsafe to shoot.

Thanks

   Brother Lou


---------------------------------
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.

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Hi Lou, You might start out using 0000 steel wool and warm soapy water, which
should clean them up. Finish by wiping down with WD40. It takes a lot of rubbing
with fine steel wool to remove any bluing, so this should do it. A few years ago
I restored a T/C Hawken from a house fire in Alaska that was covered in fire
retardant. Needless to say, that gun had to be completely sanded down and done
over, both barrel and stock. When we sent the guy his gun back, he thought that
we had sent him another rifle, not the same one, so they can be saved if they
don't get too hot in a fire. If the stock is burned or melted, obviously they
got too hot and the metal is probably not safe to shoot as it has been annealed,
and would have to be properly re-heat treated to work.

   Greg Marts
   Restoration Firearms


---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey all

I need some Good information on how to refinish the barrels and
actions of smoked damaged guns both blk.powder and modern.

What information I do have is they have just smoke damage but they
didn't get burned or the barrels didn't get really hot.

The first one I'm going to do is a in-line 50cal.CVA (wish me luck)

The only problem I see is getting the breach plug out after that
it's a fine steel wool and some penetrating oil for the barrel, I'll
more then likly have to re-blue them after I'm done

Any and all help is welcome

Thanks

Brother Lou

I'd suggest eBay.  They have a bunch of TC products.   I've bought several
from there.  Haven't got a bad one  yet.



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Prefer browned finish, but blued will work too. Needs to come with
under-rib and thimbles w/ramrod.  Anyone have one they aren't using any
more let me know.

Terry Uselton

SOLD


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <notlesu@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry about that folks, made a mistake on the price, itis supposed
to
> be $150.00+shipping or trade.
>
>
> Terry Uselton
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <notlesu@> wrote:
> >
> > Percussion, single bbl, pics are already posted. $250.00+
shipping or
> > trade.
> >
> > Terry
> >
>

Sorry about that folks, made a mistake on the price, itis supposed to
be $150.00+shipping or trade.


Terry Uselton





--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <notlesu@...> wrote:
>
> Percussion, single bbl, pics are already posted. $250.00+ shipping or
> trade.
>
> Terry
>

Percussion, single bbl, pics are already posted. $250.00+ shipping or
trade.

Terry

Yes I would like info , please send .

Gary
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: JohnHarding10@...
   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:15 AM
   Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] 1777 Charleville


   I have two, that have never been fired.  If you want the  details, email me
   direct.  They're cheap,  too.



   ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   http://www.bp-outdoors.com/muzzleloader.html . . . Muzzleloaders, Shooting,
Hunting and Outdoor resources.
   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

list,

New to the list and looking for a reproduction of the 1777 French musket
(commonly
known as the Charleville) Anyone have a used repro they are looking to get rid
of?  thanks

I Remain, &c.
Matthew Keagle

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <deaton@...> wrote:
>
> I've never even heard of a pre-1900 inline percussion!

There was actually a flintlock inline made during the 1700's, though I
don't have the reference to it right now.  And the underhammer could
be considered an "inline" as the nipple screws directly into the
barrel instead of using a snail or bolster.

-Kees-

I've never even heard of a pre-1900 inline percussion! Sure would
like to see a photo of it, particularly the firing mechanizm?

Dave...........




--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "olliebullet" <bullet99@...>
wrote:
>
> I have a 50 cal. muzzloader made by Moses Babcock in Charlestown
Mass.
> The unique thing about this gun is that it is an inline , I have
never
> seen an old inline before , has anyone else ? He was a gunsmith
from
> 1849 to 1872. Can anyone tell me more info about him or this gun ?
Any
> info would be appreciated . Thanks .
>

I have a 50 cal. muzzloader made by Moses Babcock in Charlestown Mass.
The unique thing about this gun is that it is an inline , I have never
seen an old inline before , has anyone else ? He was a gunsmith from
1849 to 1872. Can anyone tell me more info about him or this gun ? Any
info would be appreciated . Thanks .

I picked up some T/C sabots today along with some Hornady 45 cal 250gr
XTP/HP's. The Knight sabots I've been using almost completly cover
them and they are completely swallowed by the T/C sabots. Should that
affect accuracy? I've been using the 300gr XTP's with knight sabots
and had good resaults. These were about 1/8th of the way out of the
sabot.

> What is the best way to learn about the different products?

Wow, what a question!  I believe Idaho is restricting you to side
locks, so you can still use percussion.  Depending on your finances,
you can go from the Cabela's Hawken through the Lyman Great Plains
Rifle (often just called the GPR) on to the real high-end hand built
firearms.  Whether you decide on a flintlock or a percussion lock is
a personal decision.  Both will get the job done.  Just like in
archery, there are the proponents of the long bow versus the recurve,
and then there are the compound bows (training wheels?) which equate
to the modern inlines.

But the learning part?  Head to the library and check out some of the
books on muzzle loading.  Sam Fadala has written some excellent books
for the beginner.  There are those who don't like him because of the
perception that he is in it just to build himself up, but I have
found his work factual and readable.  It will give you a good base of
knowledge, and he has many good tips.  I have played this game since
1968 and still read his material.

Then you might want to get a Dixie Gunworks catalog, also the catalog
for Track Of The Wolf.  Both are good references.  The Track catalog
has full sized photos of parts so you can see what you are reading
about.  Both have websites which a search should turn up.

-Kees-

> Chamber pressures in cartrige arms are influenced by the charge
> weight as well as the projectile weight. Not sure that applies to
> black powder or not since most charges are determined by volume.

Chamber pressures with black powder are also influenced by the
ammount of powder and weight of the projectile.  It is less sensitive
to variations in the powder charge, which is why it can be measured
by volume rather than by weight.  However, if you get carried away
with how much you pour down the barrel and/or have a large, heavy
projectile on top of it the laws of physics still apply and pressure
will increase significantly.

Short starting the bullet, i.e. not seating it on the powder, will
cause the barrel to bulge at the location of the bullet in the bore.
Couple that with a doubled powder charge and the chances are very
good that the gun will blow up!

> Also I'm having a hard time locating load and pressure data. I've
> heard the Lyman's black powder manual is good. Any one ever read it?

Lyman's is a very worthwhile book to have on hand.  If you can find
it, get the original edition but the present one is also good.  Some
of the tables in the old one have been replaced with other material
in the new one, otherwise they are both excellent references.  I
reread mine over the Winter, and often refer to it.

-Kees-

I in the case of the Traditions a charge of 150 grs of Triple 7 was
used in a brand new rifle. No charge weights were cited for the
CVA's or their age or condition. I'm very new to black powder, but
I've been a smokless powder cartride hand loader for some time.
Chamber pressures in cartrige arms are influenced by the charge
weight as well as the projectile weight. Not sure that applies to
black powder or not since most charges are determined by volume.
Also I'm having a hard time locating load and pressure data. I've
heard the Lyman's black powder manual is good. Any one ever read it?



--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, dave swanson <swada54@...>
wrote:
>
> A good tradesman never blames his tools. Always check the nut
holding the but.
>   cheers
>   Dave
>   Australia
>
> Tom Costello <tcostell@...> wrote:
>           I like my CVA. Never had a problem in 3 years. It is a
Buckhorn, lowest of
> the low. Works beautifully.
> Tom Costello
>
> Albany NY
>
> on 6/10/07 9:07 PM, 45-70-405 at 45-70-405@... wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> > Does anyone know anything about the saftey issues with the
spanish
> >> > import in-lines? I was reading some of Randy Wakeman's
articles
> >> > on "chuckhawks.com"and he sited 3 accidents with CVA's and 1
with a
> >> > Tradition's that are pending litigation.
> >
> > I would want more specific info on the accidents and the causes
before
> > paying much attention to Wakeman. What actually happened, what
were the
> > loads, were the projectiles seated on the powder? Any
muzzleloader can give
> > the shooter a bad experience if loaded or handled incorrectly.
> >
> > Wakeman has a vested interest in promoting certain guns and
makers.
> >
> > Mike Lee
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added
security of spyware protection.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

A good tradesman never blames his tools. Always check the nut holding the but.
   cheers
   Dave
   Australia

Tom Costello <tcostell@...> wrote:
           I like my CVA. Never had a problem in 3 years. It is a Buckhorn,
lowest of
the low. Works beautifully.
Tom Costello

Albany NY

on 6/10/07 9:07 PM, 45-70-405 at 45-70-405@... wrote:

>
>
>
>
>> > Does anyone know anything about the saftey issues with the spanish
>> > import in-lines? I was reading some of Randy Wakeman's articles
>> > on "chuckhawks.com"and he sited 3 accidents with CVA's and 1 with a
>> > Tradition's that are pending litigation.
>
> I would want more specific info on the accidents and the causes before
> paying much attention to Wakeman. What actually happened, what were the
> loads, were the projectiles seated on the powder? Any muzzleloader can give
> the shooter a bad experience if loaded or handled incorrectly.
>
> Wakeman has a vested interest in promoting certain guns and makers.
>
> Mike Lee
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like my CVA. Never had a problem in 3 years. It is a Buckhorn, lowest of
the low. Works beautifully.
Tom Costello

Albany NY


on 6/10/07 9:07 PM, 45-70-405 at 45-70-405@... wrote:

>
>
>
>
>> > Does anyone know anything about the saftey issues with the spanish
>> > import in-lines? I was reading some of Randy Wakeman's articles
>> > on "chuckhawks.com"and he sited 3 accidents with CVA's and 1 with a
>> > Tradition's that are pending litigation.
>
> I would want more specific info on the accidents and the causes before
> paying much attention to Wakeman.  What actually happened, what were the
> loads, were the projectiles seated on the powder?  Any muzzleloader can give
> the shooter a bad experience if loaded or handled incorrectly.
>
> Wakeman has a vested interest in promoting certain guns and makers.
>
> Mike Lee
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I personally have never had any trouble with Spanish in-lines, or CVA's. The
only trouble I've ever had, was after buying a poorly maintained one. The only
trouble I've seen, is when someone overloads, and hammers in shot. As a maker of
many of my own traditional style,  I use CVA as a good reference, as well as
historical references. I grew up using CVA. As for loading procedure I looked up
military references on loading, 1620-1790 era.

DavidP005 <dave@...> wrote:
           I agree with Mike. Yes there are SOME poorly made black powder guns;
But many of the accidents I've read about and witnessed first hand have
been due to the fault of the shooter. Most of the accidents I've
witnessed were due to either lack of care for the firearm OR putting in
loads that exceeded recomendations, ie 250 grain loads repedidly, OR
not having the projectile properly seated on the charge or a
combination of all 3. I have also seen people smoking as theve been
poring powder down the bore.

It is good to ask if there are any poorly made black powder fire arms
being produced, but not knowing the gentileman in question I can not
properly vouch for the accident data he is using. I'd be doubly
curious as mike mentioned to know if the firearms in questioned were
loaded or handled incorrectly. Especially if he gets paid for
promoting certain guns and makers as it sounds.

Tex Peterson

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "45-70-405" <45-70-405@...> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know anything about the saftey issues with the spanish
> > import in-lines? I was reading some of Randy Wakeman's articles
> > on "chuckhawks.com"and he sited 3 accidents with CVA's and 1 with a
> > Tradition's that are pending litigation.
>
> I would want more specific info on the accidents and the causes before
> paying much attention to Wakeman. What actually happened, what were
the
> loads, were the projectiles seated on the powder? Any muzzleloader
can give
> the shooter a bad experience if loaded or handled incorrectly.
>
> Wakeman has a vested interest in promoting certain guns and makers.
>
> Mike Lee
>






---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with Mike.  Yes there are SOME poorly made black powder guns;
But many of the accidents I've read about and witnessed first hand have
been due to the fault of the shooter.  Most of the accidents I've
witnessed were due to either lack of care for the firearm OR putting in
loads that exceeded recomendations, ie 250 grain loads repedidly, OR
not having the projectile properly seated on the charge or a
combination of all 3.  I have also seen people smoking as theve been
poring powder down the bore.

It is good to ask if there are any poorly made black powder fire arms
being produced, but not knowing the gentileman in question I can not
properly vouch for the accident data he is using.  I'd be doubly
curious as mike mentioned to know if the firearms in questioned were
loaded or handled incorrectly.  Especially if he gets paid for
promoting certain guns and makers as it sounds.

Tex Peterson

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "45-70-405" <45-70-405@...> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know anything about the saftey issues with the spanish
> > import in-lines? I was reading some of Randy Wakeman's articles
> > on "chuckhawks.com"and he sited 3 accidents with CVA's and 1 with a
> > Tradition's that are pending litigation.
>
> I would want more specific info on the accidents and the causes before
> paying much attention to Wakeman.  What actually happened, what were
the
> loads, were the projectiles seated on the powder?  Any muzzleloader
can give
> the shooter a bad experience if loaded or handled incorrectly.
>
> Wakeman  has a vested interest in promoting certain guns and makers.
>
> Mike Lee
>

> Does anyone know anything about the saftey issues with the spanish
> import in-lines? I was reading some of Randy Wakeman's articles
> on "chuckhawks.com"and he sited 3 accidents with CVA's and 1 with a
> Tradition's that are pending litigation.

I would want more specific info on the accidents and the causes before
paying much attention to Wakeman.  What actually happened, what were the
loads, were the projectiles seated on the powder?  Any muzzleloader can give
the shooter a bad experience if loaded or handled incorrectly.

Wakeman has a vested interest in promoting certain guns and makers.

Mike Lee

Does anyone know anything about the saftey issues with the spanish
import in-lines? I was reading some of Randy Wakeman's articles
on "chuckhawks.com"and he sited 3 accidents with CVA's and 1 with a
Tradition's that are pending litigation.

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Justin Hall <justin.hall1@...>
wrote:
>
> Where you buy the gun- they'll have the little reg books and they'll
> tell you what the dates and restrictions are. You probably already
knew
> that, but that's how I've always done it. When you go to buy your
> tag/stamp, they'll have a guide there or check the web. I used to hunt
> area 39 out there before I had to leave Idaho for greener pastures.
> Good luck!
> J Hall - future Idaho City Resident
>
> lochsalucky wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've hunted all my life with rifle, pistol, & bow, but would like to
> > try blackpowder. What is the best way to learn about the different
> > products? I'm in Idaho & restricted to traditional. Suggestions for
> > equipment & understanding the mumbo-jumbo of the regs as to what is
> > legal or not????
> >
> > Thanx,
> >
> > Lochsalucky
> >
> >
>

Where you buy the gun- they'll have the little reg books and they'll
tell you what the dates and restrictions are.  You probably already knew
that, but that's how I've always done it.  When you go to buy your
tag/stamp, they'll have a guide there or check the web.  I used to hunt
area 39 out there before I had to leave Idaho for greener pastures.
Good luck!
J Hall - future Idaho City Resident

lochsalucky wrote:
>
>
> I've hunted all my life with rifle, pistol, & bow, but would like to
> try blackpowder. What is the best way to learn about the different
> products? I'm in Idaho & restricted to traditional. Suggestions for
> equipment & understanding the mumbo-jumbo of the regs as to what is
> legal or not????
>
> Thanx,
>
> Lochsalucky
>
>

I've hunted all my life with rifle, pistol, & bow, but would like to
try blackpowder.  What is the best way to learn about the different
products?  I'm in Idaho & restricted to traditional.  Suggestions for
equipment & understanding the mumbo-jumbo of the regs as to what is
legal or not????

Thanx,

Lochsalucky

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