Hello all!  My nam'es Ken; pleased to meet you.

I shoot a .45 flintlock long rifle.  Some years back I made a series of
changes that resulted in accuracy being greatly diminished.  Unfortunately,
I was thinking the rifle barrel needed to be freshed. (I should have
remembered from skeet to blame the gun last...)

Recently I've been undoing some of the changes, and groups are getting
smaller.

This January has been very cooperative, and I've been at the range for a
couple of hours per week since around Thanksgiving.

All the best,

Ken

OK, so say I wiped some bluing on a barrel, poured some in the muzzle, swished
it around, and rinsed it off.  Then I put the gun up on the mantle after
assembly and deployed to the War for a few weeks.  WHat's going to happen to the
gun?
J

>
> From: greg marts <gmarts_1999@...>
> Date: 2006/01/27 Fri PM 11:30:00 EST
> To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Re: Kit Building Tools
>
> The bluing can rust and pit the inside of the barrel. Bluing is actually rust
oxidizing the metal, which makes it change color. It is a contolled rusting
process, that once it is stopped actually helps to prevent further rusting (but
is not rust proof). How's that for confusing? This is why browning or rust
bluing actually looks better as it ages. Of all the processes and methods in gun
building, bluing is the most frustrating, and at the same time the most
fascinating.
>
>   Greg Marts
>   Restoration Firearms
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>  Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new
and used cars.
>

Why is getting bluing inside the barrel so bad?
J


>
> From: "Robert Baird" <bairdr@...>
> Date: 2006/01/27 Fri AM 07:27:21 EST
> To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Re: Kit Building Tools
>
>

Thanks Greg that give me something to shoot for I have heated them in
the oven but my SHMBO said not this time
Robert


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, greg marts <gmarts_1999@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Robert, It is next to impossible to get an even finish on a
barrel by wiping on any solution. Frankly, I don't know why they even
sell these bottles and tell you to wipe it on with a cotton ball-it
just does not work. To get an even finish on a barrel it has to be
dunked in a solution, then hung up to rust. I made a vertical bluing
tank out of 4" diameter PVC pipe. After the barrel has been plugged
polished and degreased, I insert a steel bolt, the same thread as the
nipple, and wrap wire around that to dunk the barrel in the tank and
then hang it up on. For rust browning, believe it or not the best way
to do that is to boil the barrel in Clorox bleach & water in an open
metal trough outside (do not breath it as you could die or even turn
liberal). After it cools, wear gloves and card off the rust with 0000
steel wool, degrease again with rubbing alchohol and dunk it again,
until you get the look you want. Three times is usually enough. I have
tried everything else including salt
>  brine, ect, and this is about the only thing that works for
browning. Hope this helps!
>
>   Greg Marts
>   Restoration Firearms
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Bring words and photos together (easily) with
>  PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
>

Thanks, Greg. I'm looking forward to building my first
muzzle-loader -- it's really very helpful to have guys
like you lending your expertise in this forum.

Henry

--- greg marts <gmarts_1999@...> wrote:

> Hi Henry, I use rubber stoppers that I got at Ace
> Hardware, coat them with a little tung oil for a
> good seal and pound them into the muzzle with a
> rubber mallet. For the nipple end, take the nipple
> out and use a corresponding thread allen head bolt
> and snug it up. Don't forget to tighten the
> clean-out screw on the side if there is one.
>
>   Greg Marts
>   Restoration Firearms
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo!
Mail.

Man, I feel like a slug.  I just poured the stuff into the barrel to blue it. 
Was that bad?
It was a lot cheaper than paying the gunsmith.  And I wiped the stuff with a
cotton ball on there and it looked sort of even.  Guess I'll have to take a
closer look at it.  I was too afraid to ask about barrel bluing, because I was
afraid I had done it wrong.  What a relief, I had!
J


>
> From: Henry Kisor <hkisor@...>
> Date: 2006/01/25 Wed PM 08:03:21 EST
> To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Re: Kit Building Tools
>
>

Greg, how do you plug the barrel to keep the solution
from getting inside?

Henry (a liberal AND a muzzleloading person)

--- greg marts <gmarts_1999@...> wrote:

> Hi Robert, It is next to impossible to get an even
> finish on a barrel by wiping on any solution.
> Frankly, I don't know why they even sell these
> bottles and tell you to wipe it on with a cotton
> ball-it just does not work. To get an even finish on
> a barrel it has to be dunked in a solution, then
> hung up to rust. I made a vertical bluing tank out
> of 4" diameter PVC pipe. After the barrel has been
> plugged polished and degreased, I insert a steel
> bolt, the same thread as the nipple, and wrap wire
> around that to dunk the barrel in the tank and then
> hang it up on. For rust browning, believe it or not
> the best way to do that is to boil the barrel in
> Clorox bleach & water in an open metal trough
> outside (do not breath it as you could die or even
> turn liberal). After it cools, wear gloves and card
> off the rust with 0000 steel wool, degrease again
> with rubbing alchohol and dunk it again, until you
> get the look you want. Three times is usually
> enough. I have tried everything else including salt
>  brine, ect, and this is about the only thing that
> works for browning. Hope this helps!
>
>   Greg Marts
>   Restoration Firearms
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Bring words and photos together (easily) with
>  PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

First let me say thank you to all who have  posted, the info has
been quite helpful. Justin, I think your lucky to only be here for 2-
6 weeks. I have been here since october and will hopefully be out of
here in October. I might be home then for a year or so then back.
But as you know, its a part of who we are and what we do. Be safe
and good luck in your journeys.--Josh


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, <justin.hall1@c...> wrote:
>
> I bought the Thompson kits from Deer Creek Products.  The price
was great, but the kits needed a little more than I'm used to.  I've
built 2 CVA kits and they went right together.  I guess that's what
I was expecting, and didn't get.  Also, if I take off wood from the
stock, the holes for the barrel won't line up.  That's just the
funny thing about that thing.  I'd love to have stopped in at the
factory to help them see the error of their ways, because we did
stop in Spain on the way here, but we got to sit in the terminal and
wait for them to fuel the jet.  Plus, unless they were across the
street from Rota, Spain- I'd never have found them.  I do love
Spain, though.
> I'm HERE (my super-secret location) until they send us home in
late Feb, so it's not that bad.  Other people come to the war and
they make them stay 4 months, but then they don't deploy again for 2
years.  I'll end up deploying for 2-6 weeks at a time 3-5 times a
year, so at least I get to go to different places.  It's interesting
at least.
> But I can't wait to get home and tackle the Kentucky Rifle!  How
long can I expect the flints to last when I pull the trigger?  I'd
figure they'd last about 2-3 shots and then you're either moving it
around, or getting a new one.
> J

Where can you find a good cold plum brown or is there one I always
have trouble doing hot brown on barrels and getting a good solid color
the full lengthof barrel

Robert Baird


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Mirage" <mirage_95758@y...> wrote:
>
> Individuals can often produce guns with stunning appearance and
> performance enhancements. In my experience, it often involves tools. I
> buy tools from Brownells (http://www.Brownells.com) when I buy tools.
> With black powder guns, I often find myself making tools just as they
> did 100 years ago.  That's because it's often easy and because NOBODY
> sells the exact "right" tool.
>
> The first step is simply to obtain a catalog from Brownells (cheap)and
> skim it.  You'll discover tools you didn't know you even needed a
> gadget for!  You'll also discover tools that do special tasks and
> simply knowing that such a tool exists often helps when thinking about
> a task.
>
> Brownells sells three different kinds of screwdrivers.  I have had the
> wood handled kind for 20+ years.  I recently got the magnetic set and
> the stardard set with plastic handles ala Craftsman.  If I were to
> only have one set, it would be their Mag-tip kind.  I also have
> various books, jigs and a complete rig to do Nitre Bluing.  Straight
> up, every Gunshith in the world knows Brownells...so should you if
> you're doing kits.
>
> I like to finish my octagonal barrels by bead blasting the top three
> flats to kill glare.  Then I polish the lower flate to give contrast
> in metal finish and because I like the way it looks.  It's simply an
> artistic judgement call that some like andothers don't.  My gun, so
> we'll do it MY WAY.  I bead blast with aluminum oxide at about #120
> grit.  That's about right for me.
>
> To polish steel, I begin with about 220 to 320 grit Aluminum xide (OX)
> sandpaper and a wood sanding block.  Then I progress as fast as I gan
> to # 400 grit wet/dry and I use WD-40 to wet the paper.  I usualy move
> to #600 paper and thence to #1200 wet/dry.  At this point, the steel
> begins to shine.  If I really want to get serious, I'll go to #1500
> paper. The #1200 and #1500 Wet/dry papers are for automotive finishes
> and you may have to go to a paint store to find them.
>
> After sandpaper I have a Sears 6" bench grinder with cotton buff
> wheels.  I do final finish buffing there.  Done slowly (ya can't go
> fast anyhow), it procuces a shiny almost chrome like finish. The Nitre
> blue is like the old Colt "fire blue"...a VERY pretty color (to my
> eye).  The only down-sides to Nitre blue are that for some, it's not
> period correct (for flinters) and it's also not the most durable
> finish.
>
> I hope this stilulates your thinking.
>
> Dennis
>

Individuals can often produce guns with stunning appearance and
performance enhancements. In my experience, it often involves tools. I
buy tools from Brownells (http://www.Brownells.com) when I buy tools.
With black powder guns, I often find myself making tools just as they
did 100 years ago.  That's because it's often easy and because NOBODY
sells the exact "right" tool.

The first step is simply to obtain a catalog from Brownells (cheap)and
skim it.  You'll discover tools you didn't know you even needed a
gadget for!  You'll also discover tools that do special tasks and
simply knowing that such a tool exists often helps when thinking about
a task.

Brownells sells three different kinds of screwdrivers.  I have had the
wood handled kind for 20+ years.  I recently got the magnetic set and
the stardard set with plastic handles ala Craftsman.  If I were to
only have one set, it would be their Mag-tip kind.  I also have
various books, jigs and a complete rig to do Nitre Bluing.  Straight
up, every Gunshith in the world knows Brownells...so should you if
you're doing kits.

I like to finish my octagonal barrels by bead blasting the top three
flats to kill glare.  Then I polish the lower flate to give contrast
in metal finish and because I like the way it looks.  It's simply an
artistic judgement call that some like andothers don't.  My gun, so
we'll do it MY WAY.  I bead blast with aluminum oxide at about #120
grit.  That's about right for me.

To polish steel, I begin with about 220 to 320 grit Aluminum xide (OX)
sandpaper and a wood sanding block.  Then I progress as fast as I gan
to # 400 grit wet/dry and I use WD-40 to wet the paper.  I usualy move
to #600 paper and thence to #1200 wet/dry.  At this point, the steel
begins to shine.  If I really want to get serious, I'll go to #1500
paper. The #1200 and #1500 Wet/dry papers are for automotive finishes
and you may have to go to a paint store to find them.

After sandpaper I have a Sears 6" bench grinder with cotton buff
wheels.  I do final finish buffing there.  Done slowly (ya can't go
fast anyhow), it procuces a shiny almost chrome like finish. The Nitre
blue is like the old Colt "fire blue"...a VERY pretty color (to my
eye).  The only down-sides to Nitre blue are that for some, it's not
period correct (for flinters) and it's also not the most durable
finish.

I hope this stilulates your thinking.

Dennis

My wife bought my T/C kit more than 30 years ago.  If I wanted one
today, I'd either buy it direct from T/C or ask Greg Marts (on this
list).  I think he sells them.

Dennis


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Stephens
<bigtls69@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi Dennis;
>
>   Where did you purchase the TC Hawkin Kit from?
>   I didn't see it on the Possibles on-line catalog.
>
>   Tom S  :)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Photos
>  Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in
your hands ASAP.
>

My first kit was a T/C Hawken rifle.  T/C Hawkens are exceptionally
fine kits and everything fits VERY well right out of the box.  The
majority of work involves sandpaper and finish for the barrel and
stock.

Later, I progressed to pistol kits.  I built Lyman "plains pistols"
from kits I bought mail order from The possible shop.  Then I build
a pair and made 'em a little fancies and put 'em in a wood box and
took a blue ribbon at the California State Fair in '04.  You may see
them at: http://www.striperadio.com/duel/winners.htm

Last year, the pistols and my prize Hawken wee stolen so I bought
another Hawken.  Recently I bought a Pheladelphia Derringer kit from
the Possible Shop.  You can see the exact kit at:
http://www.possibleshop.com/pistol-kit.htm  I recieved the kit and
as I expected...this kit is going to be a challenge (what I
wanted).  The wood is nearly junk (by my standards) and the kit is
produced by Traditions.  The parts are kinda crude and barely fit
together.

The parts bag was incomplete and did NOT contain a nipple.  It's not
to Possible Shop's fault but Don will stand good for it anyhow.

This is a cheap kit. it's rude, crude and represents what you get
for your money these days. Nearly all products of the "Traditions"
brand are low end yet functional products in my experience.  It's
exactly what I expected.  In my opinion as a semi advanced kit
builder, this is NOT something to be tackled by beginners.  The
chance for success requires a lot of tools and even more
determination.

I most strongly recommend T/C kits and/or the less costly Lyman
Plains Pistol kits...which still requite work.

I hope this helps... Maybe more on tools later.

Dennis

I am about to bite the bullet (!) and buy my first
muzzleloading pistol kit, probably a Pedersoli
Kentucky percussion model. I'm pretty good with tools
although am no expert. But I cannot figure out how the
sights are fastened to the barrel. How is that done?
Welding? Super glue? What tools and materials would I
need to do that job?

Thanks -- Henry

Roger that, English flints.  Is that how they lost the war in the Revolution
then?  They ran out of their flints?
J

>
> From: pjkmarks@...
> Date: 2006/01/23 Mon PM 08:44:14 EST
> To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Re: Kit Building
>
>
> In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:44:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> justin.hall1@... writes:
>
> needed a  little more than I'm used to.  I've built 2 CVA kits and they went
> right  together.  I guess that's what I was expecting, and didn't get.   Also,
> if I take off wood from the stock, the holes for the barrel won't line  up.
> That's just the funny thing about that thing.  I'd love to have  stopped in at
> the factory to help them see the error of their ways, because we  did stop in
> Spain on the way here, but we got to sit in the terminal and wait  for them
> to fuel the jet.  Plus, unless they were across the street from  Rota, Spain-
> I'd never have found them.  I do love Spain, though.
> I'm  HERE (my super-secret location) until they send us home in late Feb, so
> it's  not that bad.  Other people come to the war and they make them stay 4
> months, but then they don't deploy again for 2 years.  I'll end up  deploying
> for 2-6 weeks at a time 3-5 times a year, so at least I get to go to 
different
> places.  It's interesting at least.
> But I can't wait to get  home and tackle the Kentucky Rifle!  How long can I
> expect the flints to  last when I pull the trigger?  I'd figure they'd last
> about 2-3 shots and  then you're either moving it around, or getting a new
one.
> J
> >
> > From: "kees99919" <kees99919@...>
> > Date:  2006/01/23 Mon PM 12:36:15 EST
> > To:  Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Re: Kit  Building
> >
> >
>
>
> http://www.bp-outdoors.com/muzzleloader.html . . . Muzzleloaders,  Shooting,
> Hunting and Outdoor resources.
> Yahoo! Groups  Links
>
>
>
>
>
> Justin, let me first thank you and salute you for serving our Country.  Can't
> tell you how much our family appreciates it.
> You will get more than a few shots from your flint "IF YOU BUY ENGLISH
> FLINTS". I've gotten up to a hundred shots before I had to either knap the
flint
> or replace it. Don't settle for anything else but English Flints.
> "The Silent Hunter"
>
>
>
>

Hi Name Robert Baird I am new to this group
I have built CVA T/C and DP. I like the DP Kentucky it was a nice kit
good inletting but it did have a few draw backs. The wood in the stock
is not as good as I would like for the price but it turned out just
fine. The brass was rough also took a lot of work on it but it look
great after the hard work.

Hope to post a picture of it soon

Robert Baird
North TX.