Hello --

I am a rank newbie to the sport and I intend to purchase a
muzzleloader kit to build in order to learn how the weapons work
from the ground up.

I am also a mystery writer and am thinking about a murder story
involving a muzzleloader as the murder weapon. But before
proceeding I need to dig up some quick facts, such as: Can lead
balls shot from muzzleloading RIFLES be matched to the
weapons that shot them by means of comparing striation
marks? What about muzzleloading SMOOTHBORE muskets?

Does anyone here know of a source of this information?

Thanks to all.

I have thought about getting it also, and had the same question since
it is fairly spendy.  Thanks for the information.  Sounds like a
Christmas wish for sure!

-Kees-

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, <mserino@m...> wrote:
> I have the book and it's pretty good. You really need a safe place in
the
> yard to mill this stuff though and if you don't get quality
ingredients from
> a chemical store, your results will be just so-so. It's a lot of
work, but
> very interesting.

I am the owner of a Thompson Center Omega with a composite
stock.It is a fantastic gun and I love to shoot it and hunt with
it,however the stock is a little bit too long for me,especialy when
dressed for cold weather. Can these stocks be shortened without
difficulty or ruining the stock. I am assuming that the stock is
hollow. Anyone have any experience with this problem? Would apreciate
any info or suggestions. Thanks
                                      J. C.

I have the book and it's pretty good. You really need a safe place in the
yard to mill this stuff though and if you don't get quality ingredients from
a chemical store, your results will be just so-so. It's a lot of work, but
very interesting.

-----Original Message-----
From: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jimwulf
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:36 AM
To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Making Black Powder Book


Was wondering if anyone out there had seen the book "Black Powder and How to
Make it..." by Randy and Leigh Ellis? Tried searching the group archives but
didn't get any hits.

I would be interested in what you think of the book.

Thanks.

-jwulf
jwulf@...




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Was wondering if anyone out there had seen the book
"Black Powder and How to Make it..." by Randy and Leigh
Ellis? Tried searching the group archives but didn't
get any hits.

I would be interested in what you think of the book.

Thanks.

-jwulf
jwulf@...

Do you really need a scope if you are shooting 4 inch
groups with open sights?  Also, in some states,
mounting a scope on a muzzleloader makes it illegal to
use during the muzzleloader season, if the particular
state in question has one.  Check your local hunting
regulations.

--- Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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>
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: I bought a new inline today
>            From: "Dane Evans" <quills1985@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 04:14:25 -0000
>    From: "Dane Evans" <quills1985@...>
> Subject: Re: I bought a new inline today
>
> --- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Dane Evans"
> <quills1985@y...>
> wrote:
> > I bought a new inline today. I was hoping for some
> opinions. It's a
> > New Frontier Bear Tooth Magnum, in 50 cal. The
> price was right and I
> > was really looking for a break action for ease of
> cleaning. I'll let
> > you guys know how it shoots as soon as I get it
> cleaned and ready to
> > shoot.
> >
> >
> > I was also wondering what you guys think about
> scopes on these guns?
> I
> > did good last fall with my CVA and open sights,but
> I do like a scope
> > on my regular deer rifle.
>
>
> Any help with this guys? The gun shoots great. I'm
> getting 4 inch
> groups with open sights.
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/
>
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>

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Dane Evans" <quills1985@y...>
wrote:
> I bought a new inline today. I was hoping for some opinions. It's a
> New Frontier Bear Tooth Magnum, in 50 cal. The price was right and I
> was really looking for a break action for ease of cleaning. I'll let
> you guys know how it shoots as soon as I get it cleaned and ready to
> shoot.
>
>
> I was also wondering what you guys think about scopes on these guns?
I
> did good last fall with my CVA and open sights,but I do like a scope
> on my regular deer rifle.


Any help with this guys? The gun shoots great. I'm getting 4 inch
groups with open sights.

My .45 T/C Hawken was recently stolen...however, it did have the
aforementioned peep site on it.  I wasn't all that happy with the
sight.  The peep hole is too big and I thought the adjustment system
too crude...but possibly authentic.  I sure love the T/C brand though
and plan to buy another.


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, James Wulf <jwulf@c...> wrote:
>
>
> I have a TC Hawken (from the late 80's) and was thinking about
> installing a peep sight. Was wondering if anyone had installed
> the TC hunting style tang peep sight (or something similar)
> and what they thought of it.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -jwulf
> jwulf@c...

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, James Wulf <jwulf@c...> wrote:
>
>
> I have a TC Hawken (from the late 80's) and was thinking about
> installing a peep sight. Was wondering if anyone had installed
> the TC hunting style tang peep sight (or something similar)
> and what they thought of it.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -jwulf
> jwulf@c...

TC Hawken stock, green mountain 54 with stock front bead and lyman 57
sml (mounted on tang which was pre-drilled and threaded). This set up
works great. I have noticed that in low light situations the peep
sight makes it a bit more difficult to aim. Anyone else had this
experience?

I have a rifle with one of these installed. They are an accurate sight
once you have them set up. If you are looking for a sight that you can
easily change settings on, there are better choices. Ones that can be
easily adjusted would be the Williams Foolproof or the Lyman 57.


  Was wondering if anyone had installed
> the TC hunting style tang peep sight (or something similar)
> and what they thought of it.
>

I have a Great Plains and use a Lymann 90 reciever sight that works well for
long rang shooting. It takes a second to get the target ligned up before the
shot. I have some other BP cartridge rifles with the Lyman #2 Tang sight.
They both have changeable apature and set the rear sight back about a foot.
This improves accuracy a lot. I find the Lyman 90 reciever sight more
accurate and the #2 better for moving game or just quicker sighting. I think
the best feature is the apature, which lets old eyes not have to focus on
the rear sight. I just have to look through it and focus on the front sight
and target. I can look at the target with both eyes to follow a moving
target.
Without my reading glasses nothing is in focus close up.
Mike
SoCal

-----Original Message-----
From: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of James Wulf
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:46 AM
To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Muzzleloaders] TC Hawken Peep Sight



I have a TC Hawken (from the late 80's) and was thinking about installing a
peep sight. Was wondering if anyone had installed the TC hunting style tang
peep sight (or something similar) and what they thought of it.

Thanks.

-jwulf
jwulf@...





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I have a TC Hawken (from the late 80's) and was thinking about
installing a peep sight. Was wondering if anyone had installed
the TC hunting style tang peep sight (or something similar)
and what they thought of it.

Thanks.

-jwulf
jwulf@...

When I finally realized what was going on, I was
fortunate in that when I did get a patch all the way
down the barrel (not with the ramrod), it came out
pretty clean.  But I do think this is poor design (the
narrowing of the barrel) and I will not buy another
like it if I am in the market for another
muzzleloader.  I also use the boiling water routine
(although I leave out the soap).  One hard part is
being able to handle the barrel when it is hot but its
manageable.

Al.

--- roh2 <roh2@...> wrote:

> > One thing about it that dissapoints is that the
> breech
> > is designed in such a way that when you run a
> cleaning
> > patch down the barrel, it bottoms out before it
> even
> > reaches the touchhole.  Makes it hard to clean
> > properly.
>
> Al,
> The breech is coned, narrowing as it reaches the
> flash channel; same
> setup as the Lyman guns. When cleaning the bore, I
> reach this area
> by using a .32 caliber bore brush on the end of my
> cleaning rod and
> using a bucket of HOT soapy water with the nipple
> removed and the
> barrel removed from the stock and inserted in the
> bucket breech
> down. I just work away on this area with the brush
> to remove
> deposits. Flush with HOT clean water, dry, and run
> patches down the
> bore til she's dry. Lube with pure virgin olive oil,
> NO petroleum
> lubricants. If you want to inspect this area first
> hand, take the
> barrel to Chuck Dixon (I assume you're near to
> Kempton, PA) and have
> him pull the plug for you and inspect it. Let him
> reinstall. He's
> very familiar with Investarms guns as he's an
> official
> repair/warranty facility for Lyman guns.
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>


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> Has anyone ever heard of "Investarm SPA" as a model of muzzleloader?
> If so can you tell me whom manufactures this firearm?

Investarms is in either Italy or Spain, can't remember which offfhand.
They are the manufacturers of the Lyman GPR & trade gun along with
Cabellas similar guns.

> One thing about it that dissapoints is that the breech
> is designed in such a way that when you run a cleaning
> patch down the barrel, it bottoms out before it even
> reaches the touchhole.  Makes it hard to clean
> properly.

Al,
The breech is coned, narrowing as it reaches the flash channel; same
setup as the Lyman guns. When cleaning the bore, I reach this area
by using a .32 caliber bore brush on the end of my cleaning rod and
using a bucket of HOT soapy water with the nipple removed and the
barrel removed from the stock and inserted in the bucket breech
down. I just work away on this area with the brush to remove
deposits. Flush with HOT clean water, dry, and run patches down the
bore til she's dry. Lube with pure virgin olive oil, NO petroleum
lubricants. If you want to inspect this area first hand, take the
barrel to Chuck Dixon (I assume you're near to Kempton, PA) and have
him pull the plug for you and inspect it. Let him reinstall. He's
very familiar with Investarms guns as he's an official
repair/warranty facility for Lyman guns.
Bob

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I tried several loads at the range, including patched ball and 320 grain Lee
R.E.A.L. maxi-
ball conicals.  The conicals sat plenty tightly when loaded, so there shouldn't
be any
problem with them coming loose, at least not with this bullet design.  Though, I
could see
the mentioned problem happening with minie balls.  I got my best group when
shooting
offhand at 25 yards using 30 grains of FFFg with the 320 Lees, which was a 2" 3
shot
group.  Using 35 grains with the same bullet, the group spread out to about
2.5", though
was still accurate enough at 100 yards to hit the 10" metal gong target at that
range.

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, greg marts <gmarts_1999@y...> wrote:
> Hi Thomas- First of all you need a little faster powder for the shorter
barrel, FFFg. I use
40gns in my Lyman pistols and that works very well, a mild and accurate load. I
am still
working up a max load because as you say, the barrel is plenty thick, as much as
the rifle,
so it can be made to shoot very powerful loads. I had read in the manual
advising against
conicals because if you point the pistol down the bullet may loose contact with
the powder
charge leaving a dangerous space in the barrel. I am thinking about sabot loads
as they
stay put being a snug fit to begin with. Let us know how it turns out.
>
> Greg Marts
> Restoration Firearms
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>  Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

This year I purchased a used flintlock Hawken style 50
caliber rifle (1 in 48 twist) that was originally
marketed by Cabela's.  It was manufactured by
"Investarm SPA" in Marcheno, Italy.  I don't think it
is in the same class as the guns I saw recently at
Dixon's Muzzleloader Fair.  I certainly don't think it
would fire if you dumped the lock under water as seen
in the flintlock tuning seminar by Mr. Casteel.  But
then I only spent $150 for it.  I am hoping it is
sufficient to bring down my first muzzleloader
whitetail doe this fall.

One thing about it that dissapoints is that the breech
is designed in such a way that when you run a cleaning
patch down the barrel, it bottoms out before it even
reaches the touchhole.  Makes it hard to clean
properly.

Al.

--- micbat543354 <micbat543354@...> wrote:

> Has anyone ever heard of "Investarm SPA" as a model
> of muzzleloader?
> If so can you tell me whom manufactures this
> firearm?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Try this website www.investarm.com/eng

--- micbat543354 <micbat543354@...> wrote:

> Has anyone ever heard of "Investarm SPA" as a model
> of muzzleloader?
> If so can you tell me whom manufactures this
> firearm?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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Has anyone ever heard of "Investarm SPA" as a model of muzzleloader?
If so can you tell me whom manufactures this firearm?

I recently acquired a Traditions Trapper pistol in .50 cal. with flintlock
ignition.
Unfortunately, the manual is just a parts diagram, with no suggested loads!  The
barrel
walls look to be the same weight and thickness of my .50 cal rifle, but since
the barrel of
the pistol is only about 10 inches, I'm sure it can't burn the same amount of
powder.  Do
any of you guys have experience with this or similar muzzleloading pistols or
have any
idea of loads that should work?  The barrel twist is 1 in 20", so conicals
should work ok?

I bought a new inline today. I was hoping for some opinions. It's a
New Frontier Bear Tooth Magnum, in 50 cal. The price was right and I
was really looking for a break action for ease of cleaning. I'll let
you guys know how it shoots as soon as I get it cleaned and ready to
shoot.


I was also wondering what you guys think about scopes on these guns? I
did good last fall with my CVA and open sights,but I do like a scope
on my regular deer rifle.

There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. New Shooter, Looking for locations
From: "sharpshooter8515"


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 19:29:12 -0000
From: "sharpshooter8515"
Subject: New Shooter, Looking for locations

Hey, I just bought a new muzzleloader this past week and was looking for anyone in North
Carolina that new of any good hunting grounds or just places to shoot. Any help is
appreciated! Thanks







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If I hadn't just BOUGHT one...............lol.  Sounds
very nice.

--- kees99919 <kees99919@...> wrote:

> I am considering peddling the GPR to finance a rifle
> kit in .45. Since
> Cabelas sells them now for $530, I thought $350
> would be appropriate. It
> is no longer as it came from the factory. I cut the
> toe of the butt down
> so it is more comfortable to shoot, and formed the
> butt plate and toe
> plate to match. I have refinished it with Lin-Speed,
> coned the muzzle
> (no short starter needed to load, just push the
> patched ball in with
> your thumb) and added captive pin barrel wedges from
> Track. It gives
> nice, tight groups from the bench.
>
> I'll throw in a Lyman round ball mould with the
> rifle.  If there is
> interest I can post a couple of photos.
>
> -Kees-
>
>
>


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I am considering peddling the GPR to finance a rifle kit in .45. Since
Cabelas sells them now for $530, I thought $350 would be appropriate. It
is no longer as it came from the factory. I cut the toe of the butt down
so it is more comfortable to shoot, and formed the butt plate and toe
plate to match. I have refinished it with Lin-Speed, coned the muzzle
(no short starter needed to load, just push the patched ball in with
your thumb) and added captive pin barrel wedges from Track. It gives
nice, tight groups from the bench.

I'll throw in a Lyman round ball mould with the rifle.  If there is
interest I can post a couple of photos.

-Kees-

Dixon's Gun Fair is this weekend in Kempton, PA near Allentown and
Kutztown. This is a great event with muzzleloading gunmakers from all
over showing and selling thier work. Dixon's has a website for
directions -  dixonmuzzleloading.com If you are looking for a
flintlock or gear this is the place to be.

Robert

Hey, I just bought a new muzzleloader this past week and was looking for anyone
in North
Carolina that new of any good hunting grounds or just places to shoot. Any help
is
appreciated! Thanks

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John,

Try Track of the Wolf.  Here is their gun parts link:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/catList.aspx?catID=14

I know that there are other places wchich can provide you with a barrel
but they come to mind right off.  Or you can try getting a replacement
shotgun barrel for Remington, Mossburg or one of the other brands, cut
it off at the chamber and mount a breechplug on it.  I believe Cylinder
Bore would be unchoked, IIRC.  Let us know how you make out.

-Kees-

>  I haven't found a source for 12 ga. tubes (28 to 30
> inches, unchambered, unchoked, no hardware, no ribs, etc